Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #54: Is Your Adult Child Struggling to Make Friends? Why Social Skills Are So Important & What You Can Do to Help

Transcript

#54: Is Your Adult Child Struggling to Make Friends? Why Social Skills Are So Important & What You Can Do to Help · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, a podcast for parents of adult children in their 20s and 30s who are struggling to launch independently into adulthood.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: And just so there's no confusion, I am referring to young adults who are fully capable of living responsible, productive, purposeful lives, but are having a hard time getting there.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast serves to help parents strengthen the relationship and learn what their young adult really needs so they can thrive in the world.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: A quick announcement before we dive into today's topic my parenting course is officially open for registration.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: However, if you want to get things started before the holidays and would prefer a more intimate learning experience, I'm offering a small group session that starts on December 1st at a one-time only promotional price.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: All the details are in the show notes, and I do hope to see you there.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Today's conversation is an important one.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: If your young adult is socially withdrawn, struggles to make connections, or feels anxious about developing friendships, this episode can offer you hope and a solution.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm speaking with Mara McLaughlin about the importance of learning social skills, why they matter so much for confidence and independence, and what you can do to help your young adult.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Mara is the founder and program director of IRL Social Skills.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: She is a highly respected speech language pathologist with more than 15 years of experience helping autistic teens and young adults communicate, connect, and express themselves.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: In 2021, Mara and her team developed a specialized program to help individuals of all ages develop the social skills they need to build real-world connections and experience a true sense of belonging.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get started.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Mara.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Shari.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining me on launch today.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks for having me.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I really do love your work, and I am so appreciative of the service that you're providing people who really do need help with their social skills, especially because there are there's not a lot of resources or services out there.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think what you're doing is incredible.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, there is a real dearth of services.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Most people want to work with the little kids, but you get to the teen years, services decrease, and then adult years, forget about it.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just barely anything.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I'm happy to provide services for those who really need them.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: So for the mom and dad who has never heard of your amazing program, why don't you begin by telling us about IRL social skills and what motivated you to start it?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so IRL social skills stands for in real life.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a speech language pathologist.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have specialized in autism since uh grad school in 2009.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was working with non-speaking autistic students, getting them a functional way to express themselves.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I noticed these ones over here, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: These ones who could speak, who were perhaps doing well academically.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't a behavior problem, there were no academic concerns, but they were struggling socially.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that those were the ones I worried about, the like invisible ones, the ones that needed support that would help them have a rich life.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they weren't getting it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So is there a particular type of individual that you work with?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'll be honest, I think most people could benefit from learning social skills.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, you know, I launched in March of 2021 during the pandemic because we had all felt the impact of social isolation.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And those who were already struggling socially, you know, autistic, ADHD, otherwise neurodivergent, those were the ones that um, you know, were felt the impact the most, right?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I launched with five families from Hawaii to New York and even Canada.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and since then we've served, you know, 500 families, and and really the profile is you know, average to above average intelligence, struggling socially.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing, like super cool, but haven't been able to find the people with whom they belong.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to be able to like deploy the skills to maintain those relationships once they have found them.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So do again, just so I uh the audience, the listener, is understanding are these in-person social skills learning classes or virtual?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: They are virtual live, you know, it's still face-to-face, it's still inter-brain connectivity.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, we like, does this work?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because we look to the data.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been assembling data for the past almost five years now to be able to answer that question.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the data is from um different assessments, both standardized and non-standardized, as well as from the transcripts of the recordings that I've had analyzed by a data analysis company, and it's been really like heartening to see what the data shows.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And for I'll give you an example.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: The word most used in over three years of transcripts was connection.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I love that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is the age range that you will um that you offer your program to?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: You said it's not really kids, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, where does it start?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, at age 11, middle school.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, which is ground zero for social, right?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people are the you know, these teens, you know, they're going through like such a huge transformation, you know, from childhood into adolescence.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they are trying to find out where they belong, you know, who they are really.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're establishing their identity.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fair to say that you don't actually have to be on the spectrum to benefit from your program.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oftentimes people are um, you know, they don't have any kind of diagnosis or identification, but they're, you know, they're still like not able to make friends, or I hear this a lot.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: They can make friends, but they can't keep them.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I hear that a lot.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I hear that a lot.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: For whatever reason, you know, usually there is something, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but our you know, the it's like social media, it's kind of what I call antisocial media, because it's not teaching them the skills of real-world social interaction and how to maintain those connections, right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: How to um, you know, repair ruptures after a fight, how to be a good guest, how to be a good host of get togethers.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, parents are moving, you know, along the trajectory themselves.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Parents are in their own development as parents, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, it went from like setting up play dates to like have like you can't do that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're too old for that, but they still need support, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: With the executive functioning skills of like, you know, making the plan, um, following up, uh, preparing for this.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then, um, and then afterwards, you know, like the like, oh hey, I had a really good time.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: We should do that again, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: The things that we do as adults, there's a lot of steps.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we still need to like usher our teens and young adults through those steps.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a lot.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I think that many parents assume that their children or young adults just know how to communicate or connect with others, and that that that uh the social skills are something that their kids are just gonna, you know, pick up along the way.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the fact is that social skills are not naturally intuitive.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And although some aspects of social behavior are picked up through modeling, many of these skills we rely on that we rely on in relationships, they have to be taught and practiced.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm guessing that's exactly what you do.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah, yeah.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it is direct, explicit instruction in reciprocal conversation skills, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ask a question, ask a follow-up question, answer your own question, make a comment, ask open-ended questions.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, small talk is big talk.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people are like, oh hate small talk, but you know, it is you have to start somewhere, right?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everything's everyone starts somewhere.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Any relationship that you've ever had started with small talk.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's very cool.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Small talk is big talk, and then you know, teaching like effective use of humor, you know, our our participants know that like, you know, humor is attractive and it is also the fastest way to turn people off, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh explain that.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's like okay, people like laughing is one of the ways we get through life, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, and it is it is magnetic, you know, people like to be around people who make them laugh, you know, because it activates, you know, the vagus nerve, you know, it gives a sense of well-being to your physical body.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and so our teens and young adults, they pick up on that, and then they're like, oh, I gotta be the class clown, you know, in order to like make people like me.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's hard to be a comedian, you know, they get paid the big bucks.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's really an art form.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't have to be the comedian, you can like appreciate you know, humor and you can inject levity, but you don't have to be that class clown.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a better way.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can like trade information and find common interests which form the foundations of friendships.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: So what sorry, go ahead.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Even say even romantic relationships.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do you be more than friends, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you're friends first.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a tough one.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess you're getting you're getting young adults coming to you at that stage of their lives too, where they're saying, I'm ready to start dating and meeting the you know, same sex, opposite sex, but I don't know how.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And is that some of the issues?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to figure out some of the issues.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, let's put it this way, because this was my question.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the red flags or warning signs that a parent should watch out for to know that their young adult or child or teen or whatever age is really struggling to connect?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Red flags are they're not doing anything with peers in person.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, I have friends, they're all online.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are they like, are they really your friends?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, are they gonna like be there for you when you, you know, are sick?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um they are they're not invited to things, they're not invited to sleepovers, they're not invited to parties, they are you know, shunned, excluded, ostracized.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not telling you that they're being bullied, but you know, an indirect form of bullying is that exclusion.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's super painful.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And parents oftentimes, I mean, that's a pain point for parents, you know, because they're like, oh, you know, my child who is amazing doesn't have any friends, and they are kind of retreating more and more into like an online space because they need to find belonging, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, humans need to belong.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Our survival literally depends on other people.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when they don't have that, you know, they're in a world of hurt.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and you know, there's oftentimes, I mean, when you are peer-rejected, socially isolated, shunned, excluded, ostracized, there are mental health conditions that arise.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, definitely depression, anxiety, suicidality.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, what is what helps is having people in your life who get you.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And to be able to nurture those relationships.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really just the name of the game, you know, something that happens in person, like once a week, once every two weeks, where you can keep the vibe alive.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes time.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you wish you could just like make best friends overnight, but it takes time.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're definitely, you know, as humans, we're wired for connection, but we're not wired to automatically understand, you know, social rules and cues and tones.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: All that stuff really has to be taught to us.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I think what you're doing is fantastic because I I really believe that, especially if a parent is not that comfortable themselves socially, but they've they've they've made it through and they found their little tribe, that it's even harder for them to teach social cues and tone and things like that to their young adult because they're they themselves aren't there com aren't that comfortable.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that service that you're providing, I keep saying it because I really believe it.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it's it's it should be taught in school.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: It should be taught in school.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: It should be taught in school.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, anybody can, you know, write a social skills program, you know, anybody can teach social skills, but does it work?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: In real life.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes, you know, the when we think social skills, like sometimes people think like it's like etiquette and like social niceties.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: But really, what it is about at the end of the day is building and maintaining community.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we have, you know, the apple doesn't fall far, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have neurodivergent parents, you know.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a strong genetic component to neurodivergence.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, I can't, I don't know how to teach this because I'm not very good at this.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Firstly, you have you can have a neurotypical quote unquote parent um who has a neurodivergent child, and they're like, What?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's really easy.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what problems?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just go up and introduce yourself.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just go up there.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's really easy.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that easy.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Soft skills are hard skills.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Define soft skills, because somebody said that on another episode, and I should have asked them to define soft skills versus hard skills, because a lot of my guests are experts in their field, and we use terminology that I want everyone to understand.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't mind, soft skills.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, soft skills are everything that's not a technical skill, okay, which are hard skills, soft skills, you know, like being able to um, you know, have conversations, to be able to um initiate conversations, to be able to enter conversations, to be able to um, you know, have emotional regulation, emotional like sobriety, which, you know, really is really co-regulation, is the name of the game there.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to be able to co-regulate and and read the social cues, like you've said, you know, does this person want to talk to me?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are they interested?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do I know?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, are they looking at me?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are they talking to me?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Are they facing me?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or are they giving me the cold shoulder?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are they looking at their phone?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are they like backing away?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are they giving me one-word answers?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, then I have to adjust my communication, you know, being able to give uh feedback in the workplace, compliment, critique, compliment, be able to accept feedback.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Huge, these are huge social skills, they are, and employers are more likely to hire someone with strong soft skills and weak technical skills than they are to hire somebody with strong technical skills, like this person can do the job, but they have weak soft skills, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, it's there's a lot of training of employers that needs to be done around neurodivergence.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of ableism still.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people ask me, you know, should I disclose at work?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, explain that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why shouldn't they disclose at work?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the judgment, because of the judgment.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have a highly capable person, and oftentimes people who are neurodivergent have like significant strengths.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a reason why neurodivergent people are here because because of evolutionary design.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they have been doing their job, they've been doing it effectively.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then they say, like, hey, I am, you know, I'm autistic, I'm autistic and ADHD.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ADHD.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the employer goes, well, we're just gonna take this off your plate.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they're kind of like forced out of the workplace or even fired if they ask for, you know, if they disclose a disability and they ask for accommodations, you know, it is just a real icy field.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And really, you know, it's like in order to do my job the most effectively, this is what I need.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to disclose a disability.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can be like, you know, I need to wear headphones at work.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I need to work from home.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I need to um have a lamp in my office instead of this overhead fluorescent light, which I can hear buzzing all the time, drives me crazy.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just it's distracting.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and and neurodivergent employees, like they tend neurodivergent people tend to make really good employees.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: But there's the social, you know, that is a barrier to like even gaining employment, you know, retaining employment, and advancing.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So these skills are really workforce development skills.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really want parents to believe in the how important this is.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, listen, I'll I'll tell you on a personal note, when my kids were little, and I'm very obviously you can tell I'm very comfortable socially.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I have a social battery, it runs out, so I'm not always like this, but I am comfortable socially.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: My mother wasn't, so I almost learned how to connect with people better because she couldn't, she wasn't good at making eye contact.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of said, I'm gonna make eye contact all the time.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when my kids were little, even though I thought I can teach them social skills, I knew I wasn't able to because I'm just one person.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes, it takes a group of people for them to engage with, for them to learn social skills, and then they can come home and report back what happened, and then I can go, okay, well, this is maybe this is how it would have been a better way to approach that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I put my kids into early childhood education very, very young, because I wanted them to be social.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: I did it for my first one who had no siblings.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: He was my first, so I thought this is really good for him.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Be social, learn how to talk to people, to be, you know, to listen, you know, even body language, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like my kid, so he comes home one day and he goes, Um, you know, I think uh someone said that I'm I'm standing too close to them when I talk.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let me tell you what a safe distance is, because some people don't have that sense.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that is again, these are all the things we we take for granted, but we have to teach our children and teach them as they get older, because you're you're right, then they go into the workforce, and it's a different set of rules.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't have a certain tone with people.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's all of this, it's like so important what you teach.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't I can't stress it enough, but I I do want to talk about since we are I mentioned something about you know warning signs and red flags for parents, this concept of masking.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because I bet you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of parents don't they're not familiar with the term masking, and I want to talk about that because that's how a lot of people get out go under the radar.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: So can you talk a bit about masking?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, masking is um where someone they'll like put on their best normal, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, okay, like I if I do these things, it makes me stand out.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I like flap my hands to like disperse my energy to regulate my body, um, that makes it makes me stand out.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna do that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it is it reduces, it's like one data point less that makes them get missed in like the a school setting, for example.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and masking um is you know, it's like fitting in, right?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: But fitting in is not belonging.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, not at all.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it's fooling everybody, that's for sure.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know that in the research it tells us that both, although both males and females do masking, um, it's more common and way more intense for females.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: So much so that when a female is finished masking for the day, that this leads to like anxiety, exhaustion, burnout, which explains so much, so much about why some females are really just like done, done, done, because they've gone to school, they've watched all the other little girls, how they're behaving, they put on that persona, that that mask, and then they come on and they're just like exhausted, exhausted and stressed out because they got to do it again the next day.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then you'll see like the the meltdowns, right?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: The dysregulation.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's that doesn't feel good for anyone in all.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, but parents need to know where it's coming from, yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And there's there's a reason for it, you know, because they've like held it together all day long, and then they get home and they're like safe at home.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then like parents are bearing the brunt.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's not fun.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in your blog post, uh, why, and we're gonna, this is I was like excited to like get here, but why belonging matters more than perfect social skills, which I'm gonna put into the show notes, you talk about the importance of belonging and why that feeling is more important than anything else.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, you mentioned that IRL social skills doesn't try to create, and I love this, perfect social performers, um, but rather to create spaces where young people can practice, grow, connect, just so they can feel that sense of belonging.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Can you can you elaborate on that?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: The feeling, you know, how does it feel in your body to be in a space with other people with whom there is a shared empathy?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is hard for you, it's hard for me too.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and being able to have a safe space to practice these skills and to be able to learn, you're like, there's a lot of propaganda out there, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: About autism specifically, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's in the news.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's you know, like, uh don't let me get don't get me started on that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and really the propaganda is very demoralizing and scary, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: For both, you know, like teens, young adults, adults, and for parents.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And for them to get the messaging that, like, you know what, you don't need to be fixed, you're not broken.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: You do need to learn some skills so that you can have a rich life.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the skills, you know, oftentimes it's like, oh, everyone else got the memo.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And for them to be like, oh gosh, you know, like, yeah, I'm not for everyone.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's not for me.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that is okay.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't need to have a lot of friends, you know, it's quality over quantity.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people think like, oh, these are my friends, and they can even like name them off, but they don't share any common interests with them.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So they're really just acquaintances, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't moved them along the trajectory to like make them friends, you know.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make a friend?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like it, you know, there's give and take, you know, you it takes time, it takes effort, it doesn't just magically happen.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, but you're gonna increase your chances of making friends if you are in a space with other people who are into what you're into.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can cultivate those relationships and move them from, you know, casual friend to regular friend to best friend.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: It takes time, and there is like it's not just a feeling because it is kind of like a science, right?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but the feeling in your body is not gonna be tense, it's not gonna be constricted, it's gonna be expansive.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, oftentimes, like you know, we all mask to a certain extent.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't just say exactly how I feel, you know.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you wouldn't you wouldn't like me at all.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, same here, right?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to deploy the skills and you have to use discernment.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm in this setting, I'm gonna use these skills.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in this setting, I'm gonna use these skills.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: In this setting, I'm gonna use another set of skills.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have a broad repertoire of skills, you can't deploy the skills.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: We call we also call that a even a filter.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like right, the the appropriateness of the statements that come out of your mouth.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I used to say, again, I'm going back to my kids.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: I used to say, before you say something, I want you to imagine I'm on your shoulder and ask me, what would my mom say if I said this?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: What would my mom say if I did this?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I'm always I was always chirping in their ear.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, when they're out in the world, they're on their own.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say, take a moment before you blurt something out and say, hmm, is this gonna hurt somebody's feelings?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, is this gonna make somebody feel good?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, think before you speak is so powerful, you know.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I used to even tone, tone is important.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: My mother used to like say, you know, don't use that tone with me.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, What tone?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what are you talking about?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, kidding.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kidding.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not like it, it is again, that's where the like explicitness of the instruction comes in.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's also where like some like video modeling can come in.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's something that I totally encourage parents to do because it is highly effective.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just like athletes will watch like replays of themselves so they can like improve their game, right?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Same with like, okay, you know, so you're like trying to enter a group conversation, you know, you don't just like barred in and start talking about what you want to talk about, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's not effective.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but how many adults do that every day, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, so many.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it what does it make people feel?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: It makes people feel bothered, it makes people feel unfriendly towards you.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you have to use like skillful means, and the cool thing is that these skills can be taught, yeah, they can be learned, they can be practiced, they can be improved upon.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you do all of that, yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're saying that you even show through videos, through actual performances, how to actually think that's incredible, Mara.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Really, I do.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: I never even heard of it before.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: It really works.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's like I'm not trying to waste anyone's time or money, you know, because that's too precious.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what I want to do is something that works.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Being effective is doing what works.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: So what changes would you see?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm looking for like, let's say a real life transformation.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me what you see when you start when when an individual starts to learn these social skills.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: What have you witnessed in the last three years?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: My gosh, I have so many stories.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, from like just being really introverted, really kind of like angry, to realizing that, like, oh, I can actually have a conversation because I know how.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes things easier in my life.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a story of a teen who was really trying to make friends, and she had little scripts that she had written and she was trying to do it, and like kids weren't, you know, taking the bait.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then she took our program.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then now, like three years later, you know, parents are checking in with me.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Parents send me graduation pictures, parents send me updates, and they're like, She has friends, she has friends, like she's kind of popular, actually.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Aww, I love that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: She has a little like list at her the door on her bedroom, like text your friends, call your friends, check up on them, you know, follow up with like things that are happening in their life.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like these are skills.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: These are skills being able, you know, having uh a teen say, oh, you know, when I started in your program when I was 12 years old, I basically had no social skills.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm 15 and I have more social skills, and I want to take your young adult program because I'm gonna start dating and I don't know how to do that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I want to take your adult program because that's for when I get a job and I need skills, you know, to be able to do that.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like them actually realizing that like they're they have learned skills, they have made friends, and that they need to continue to grow these skills as they get older.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: We are always learning to be how to be social.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's really it's a it's a constant, it's a because we're always like modifying ourselves.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I I remember years ago learning how important it was to read the room, right?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if there was somebody, and with my big ass personality, if I walked into a room full of quieter people or just even one-on-one, if I was a it was a one-on-one coworker and I came in too loud, I learned to read the room and go, okay, you know what?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna not mask, I'm gonna mirror.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm going to mirror the behavior I see and slowly start to reveal, you know, myself to them.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: And most of the time, people really appreciated the come in quietly if they're quiet, you know, or just that whole expression of meet them where they are.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of that has to be taught.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: It really does.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes we have these bad experiences and we shut down and we don't want to be ourselves because we've had someone tell us, I don't like the way you are.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then so now all of a sudden we have to kind of regain our confidence again and find another connection point with maybe another group of people or another individual.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think this is all part of it, you know, it's all part of life and the learning.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like most problems are social problems.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said, you know, kind of like on the topic of rejection.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, like our participants have tried, you know, and they've been rejected.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had uh uh a video that I showed in one of the classes, and it was like of a guy um trying to ask a woman out on a date, and she rejected him.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the students in the class said, Oh, and an incel is born.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, yeah, you know, incel means involuntarily celibate.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god, and I was like, Wow, you're totally right.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, this like sensitive person, you know, with a sensitive nervous system has mustered up the gumption and then has been rejected.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's this could be like, you know, from like not even from a romantic standpoint, but even from a friendship standpoint.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're you know, trying and they get rejected, and then they make that be the whole like, oh, I'm not even gonna try anymore because it because rejection is so painful, it's literally life-threatening again, because we need to be liked.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need to be liked by everyone, yeah, but we need to be liked by some people, and then they're like, Oh, I'm just not even gonna try because I got rejected and it sucked.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when they learn the skills, they also learn the skills of how to handle rejection.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely realizing that they're not for everyone.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's I I've said this before, so I always feel like repeating myself again, but I think that one of the reasons why a lot of young adults don't are so afraid to go out into the world and join programs and can go into community environments is because they've had their education system do something to them, traumatize them, make them feel like they're not good enough and they they can't make any friends, that they don't want to go into the world as young adults and try again.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: When really it's a different, it's a different set of parameters, but having the teaching, the learning of how to do that is so much more comforting and confidence boosting.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I just, I mean, I I we're almost done here, and I always like to leave on a very positive note.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's one message that parents can walk away with today, especially if they're worried about their young adults' social skills, what would you like them to know about this?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I would just like them to know that that that they're not alone.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they aren't alone as parents, and their teen or young adult is also not alone in this struggle.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that there is help available.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And to just not to just not lose hope and to um maybe join our program because we can help.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm definitely going to encourage that they reach out to you.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Your information will be in the show notes, how to contact you to learn everything there is about your program.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I really, I've said this, I really want to thank you for the incredible work that you're that you're doing.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have never heard of it before.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really hope the parents who are listening walk away understanding really how important social skills are and that what it does, not just for their well-being and their confidence, but for their independence, you know, and that's what we're really trying to help young adults with is to feel good about themselves, to feel a sense of community and connection.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if they need to learn their social skills, well, now we know where they can go.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think our IRL social skills is amazing, and I honestly wish you so much success with the program.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Really do.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Sherry.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being here.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good one.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: You too.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to you soon.