Latest / Barnyard Language / Dr. Madigan squeezes babies!

Transcript

Dr. Madigan squeezes babies! · Barnyard Language

• 0:13
  Welcome to Barnyard Language.
• 0:14
  We are Katie and Arlene, an Iowa sheep farmer, and an Ontario dairy
• 0:18
  farmer with six kids, two husbands, and a whole lot of chaos between us.
• 0:23
  So kick off your boots, reheat your coffee, and join us
• 0:26
  for some barnyard language.
• 0:28
  Honest.
• 0:28
  Talk about running farms and raising families.
• 0:32
  In case your kids haven't already learned all the swears from being in the barn,
• 0:35
  it might be a good idea to put on some headphones or turn down the volume.
• 0:39
  While many of our guests are professionals, they
• 0:41
  aren't your professionals.
• 0:42
  If you need personalized advice, consult your people.
• 0:45
  Welcome to another episode of Barnyard Language.
• 0:47
  Thank you for joining us again today.
• 0:49
  So Katie tried to go home, so I was about to ask her how things are
• 0:52
  in Iowa, but I know she's not in Iowa cuz she didn't get there yet.
• 0:55
  So, Katie, how are things in Minnesota?
• 0:59
  I was like 80% successful in getting home.
• 1:03
  Um, honestly, I was more concerned that I was gonna get stuck in Toronto and
• 1:07
  be stuck in a foreign country, which, I mean, Canada's not like foreign,
• 1:14
  foreign.
• 1:15
  It's more than getting stuck in an airport.
• 1:17
  Doesn't really matter where the airport is.
• 1:19
  So much . Just the fact that you're in an airport.
• 1:23
  Yeah.
• 1:23
  And a place where you can't even buy guns in the Walmart, . Like,
• 1:26
  how are we supposed to live like
• 1:28
  this?
• 1:28
  You know?
• 1:29
  It's one of our cultural experiences.
• 1:30
  What Katie was visiting was going to Walmart, so, uh, yeah.
• 1:33
  That gives you an idea of how much culture she saw while she was here.
• 1:36
  We didn't even like see the parliament buildings or anything.
• 1:39
  So next time, next time.
• 1:42
  I met a lot of Canadians.
• 1:44
  They were all very nice.
• 1:45
  I spent a lot of time with Arlene and her family.
• 1:48
  They were all very nice.
• 1:50
  Um, I got a Lego tour from some of her kids.
• 1:54
  I threw the ball a lot for Levi?
• 1:56
  The Jack Russell.
• 1:57
  Yes.
• 1:58
  With the
• 1:58
  tickety, tickety toes.
• 1:59
  Yeah.
• 1:59
  Don't pet him, but just keep throwing that
• 2:01
  ball.
• 2:01
  Don't pet him.
• 2:03
  Throw the ball.
• 2:04
  Um, I got to spend time with Arlene's, extended family and
• 2:08
  friends and that was lovely.
• 2:10
  Met my first Barnyard language podcast Fans in the Wild.
• 2:15
  Gonna have to start carrying a Sharpie, you know, in case
• 2:17
  anybody wants an autograph.
• 2:18
  Nobody does.
• 2:19
  But you know, they might, in case they might, you never know.
• 2:23
  Offered.
• 2:23
  Um, had a great trip.
• 2:26
  But for anyone not in the us there is a massive storm system sitting kind
• 2:31
  of, I think maybe across the entire country and maybe most of Canada.
• 2:38
  I haven't been watching the weather because it's not
• 2:40
  gonna make any difference.
• 2:41
  North
• 2:41
  America's pretty big, so I wouldn't say most of the country,
• 2:44
  but localized over you and me.
• 2:46
  . They could be separate storm systems.
• 2:47
  Yeah, I have not
• 2:48
  yet, but, but also California is apparently getting like freak flooding
• 2:52
  and anyway, so I flew home Tuesday night and of course the Minneapolis
• 2:58
  airport is a little over three hours drive from the farm, but the entire
• 3:05
  area between the airport and the farm was forecast to get somewhere between
• 3:09
  three and 20 some inches of snow.
• 3:13
  Uh, sometime between Tuesday and Friday.
• 3:16
  So it started snowing just before we touch down.
• 3:20
  And I have since Tuesday evening, been in the Marriott Residence
• 3:25
  Inn in Bloomington, Minnesota.
• 3:27
  It's um, actually pretty nice, you know, full kitchen,
• 3:31
  bathroom, tv, whatever, getting
• 3:34
  some nice folks, getting some uninterrupted work.
• 3:35
  Don, I'm guessing.
• 3:38
  . Yeah.
• 3:38
  Yeah.
• 3:38
  A lot of reading.
• 3:39
  And I asked one of my coworkers this morning, you know, because we've,
• 3:43
  I've been working whether they thought that I could expense the hotel as a
• 3:47
  coworking space because the lobby is entirely full of stranded passengers
• 3:53
  with their laptops out working.
• 3:55
  Yeah.
• 3:55
  So I've met some lovely folks, um, who are stuck here from Denver
• 4:01
  and Florida and are, you know, relaxing in the Marriott lobby.
• 4:06
  The employees have been delightful.
• 4:09
  Um, and I got the world's cutest salt and pepper shakers, . Cause
• 4:13
  they're in the room and they're, they're like half an inch tall.
• 4:16
  I don't know why it's killing me so much to have these, I
• 4:19
  mean, it's not like packets.
• 4:20
  They're like straight up salt and pepper shakers.
• 4:23
  They're just
• 4:24
  tight.
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  You're taking those things home.
• 4:26
  Are you?
• 4:27
  I.
• 4:28
  I am.
• 4:29
  And I'm gonna ask for a second set, , because anybody who has more
• 4:32
  than one child close in age knows that even if the other child does
• 4:36
  not give a rat's ass about whatever the thing is, you better not just
• 4:41
  bring one home because there will be
• 4:42
  blood sugar.
• 4:42
  That's true.
• 4:42
  And I don't think you actually did any shopping for your
• 4:44
  children while you were in Canada.
• 4:46
  So I mean, you could claim even that they were, uh, the Canadian souvenirs.
• 4:51
  I could.
• 4:52
  Um, I will say that I bought one final Tim Horton's Boston Cream donut
• 4:58
  in the Toronto airport because we do not have Tim Horton's in Iowa yet.
• 5:05
  And Boston Cream Donut shoved into a, a carryon bag and then hauled through two
• 5:14
  airports and forgotten about for 24 hours.
• 5:19
  How did that taste?
• 5:20
  It was better than no donut, but not by much.
• 5:22
  It was pretty, it's pretty sad.
• 5:24
  Um, it's no longer in a donut form, so how.
• 5:28
  Yeah.
• 5:29
  And all the frosting had leaked off and the outside was stale
• 5:31
  and the inside was weird , but it was better than no donut that.
• 5:35
  So anyway, uh, how are things on the farm, Arlene?
• 5:39
  Oh, thanks.
• 5:39
  Quiet without me.
• 5:40
  Yes.
• 5:40
  Following you
• 5:41
  around and, yeah.
• 5:43
  Quiet.
• 5:43
  Um, the youngest had to move back into his own room, so he was not, not all
• 5:48
  that excited, but his brothers were happy to, uh, move him back out again.
• 5:52
  So that was a, a transition.
• 5:54
  So Monday was family day, and today we have a snowstorm, so another snow day.
• 5:59
  So another very short week in terms of of school.
• 6:03
  But yeah, not much of an update.
• 6:06
  I guess since last week.
• 6:07
  The classifier we're recording on Thursday, the classifiers here today.
• 6:11
  So for non-dairy farming folks or people who don't have registered
• 6:16
  cattle, um, that means this person is a employee of Holstein Canada.
• 6:21
  And, um, They come and basically give our cows a mark so
• 6:26
  they get graded essentially.
• 6:27
  And, uh, so we're hoping for some high marks today.
• 6:32
  Um, my husband actually set up, we have enough, um, passionate staff
• 6:37
  and family members that they, they set up a little, um, poll I guess, or
• 6:42
  maybe it's more of a bedding system.
• 6:44
  I'm not exactly sure.
• 6:45
  But anyway, people were putting down their guesses as to what the classifier
• 6:48
  was going to give certain cows.
• 6:50
  So, so not only will we get to see what the classifier does, but
• 6:53
  we'll get to see who wins in terms of, uh, who has the closest guest,
• 6:57
  what the classifier does today.
• 6:58
  So, I'll let you know, uh, Katie who had the, uh, the closest marks on
• 7:04
  what the classifier was going to do.
• 7:06
  I, I told my husband this morning that he was gonna have to tell her not to
• 7:09
  take bribes for, I mean, not that she would, but, you know, not necessarily
• 7:13
  that we wanted the highest, uh, classification, but that certain people
• 7:17
  might be lobbying for very specific point values on, on certain animals.
• 7:21
  So that's kind of the update.
• 7:24
  So that requires a little bit of extra cleanup.
• 7:27
  Uh, there was some clipping going on just to make sure tails and utters were a
• 7:31
  little bit cleaner and neater than normal.
• 7:33
  And yeah, I guess that's it.
• 7:36
  Report cards came in this week, so, you know, that leads to some discussions
• 7:42
  based on, uh, how things are going.
• 7:45
  And I think that's, I don't know.
• 7:50
  Katie, what, do you have any updates from my house?
• 7:52
  I can't remember.
• 7:53
  I will say, Katie, my kids have gotten much chattier since you left.
• 7:56
  I didn't realize that they were, they had gone almost mute.
• 7:59
  Um, but all of a sudden they're talking again.
• 8:01
  So clearly our presence meant that they, uh, they stopped talking.
• 8:05
  Your daughter was a delight.
• 8:07
  I don't think the boys managed to speak more than two sentences
• 8:10
  each day in the time I was there.
• 8:12
  Yeah.
• 8:12
  Like, you know, like I remember as a kid, it's awkward when your
• 8:15
  parents have people over and especially someone you don't know.
• 8:17
  And especially when they just like, stay at your house.
• 8:20
  Yeah.
• 8:20
  Take your room.
• 8:21
  Um, yeah.
• 8:23
  Take your room and make you deal with your little brother
• 8:26
  and Yeah.
• 8:26
  I will say that I, especially my youngest, I feel like I've said it
• 8:32
  before, he's a bit of a covid kid.
• 8:34
  Um, if he never had to leave the house, he would be perfectly happy.
• 8:38
  So I think that having.
• 8:41
  , you know, almost two years worth of no activities.
• 8:45
  Limited school, you know, being really quite sheltered here.
• 8:49
  A lot of things were locked down for a long time between the ages, you know, for
• 8:54
  him, between the ages of five and seven.
• 8:56
  It's definitely impacted how he interacts with the world.
• 8:59
  So that's something that we're gonna have to work on.
• 9:02
  It's in my head anyway, so we'll see what happens there.
• 9:06
  Maybe he's just an introvert like me, who knows.
• 9:08
  Yeah.
• 9:09
  As an adult who happily celebrated, made his birthday by leaving
• 9:13
  it introverted clock, which for anyone who seen the videos was
• 9:16
  before the Garth Brooks serenade.
• 9:20
  Um, I, I totally get not wanting to talk to people, , and especially not
• 9:27
  strangers who show up at my house.
• 9:29
  So, you know, um, for our listeners, Arlene, reasonably asked me not to take a
• 9:36
  photo, but I'm gonna set up my own once I get home, and I will take a photo of that.
• 9:40
  But she has a genius idea for all that random shit that accumulates everywhere.
• 9:47
  The little, little things, you know, she has one of those What, like
• 9:52
  a, like a plastic five drawer bin?
• 9:57
  Yeah.
• 9:58
  I don't know, like a Rubbermaid or whatever.
• 9:59
  Those, those like craft drawers or the Yeah, yeah.
• 10:02
  Like a disposable set of drawers.
• 10:03
  Kind of.
• 10:04
  Not disposable, but Yeah.
• 10:05
  Plastic.
• 10:05
  Yeah.
• 10:07
  And each of the kids, although in our family it will be the kids plus the adults
• 10:12
  because we have fewer kids and more adults and more little crap, I would guess.
• 10:18
  Um, has a labeled drawer for their little crap.
• 10:21
  And I love this idea because a lot of times I don't want to put stuff away.
• 10:25
  It's, you know, it's a two inch tall doll that my child is going
• 10:28
  to demand the minute they get home.
• 10:31
  But I don't want them all living.
• 10:33
  In the middle of my dining room table or on the kitchen counters
• 10:36
  or in the bathroom, which seems to be where everything accumulates.
• 10:41
  So I'm loving the idea of just giving everyone one space where
• 10:45
  other random shake can be found.
• 10:48
  And then when someone says, where's my insert item?
• 10:52
  You can just say, check your drawer.
• 10:54
  And hopefully it's there.
• 10:55
  Yeah,
• 10:57
  because it's easy to pick up the big toys and the big shit, but when
• 11:00
  it's like a magazine for my husband,
• 11:03
  yeah, that, that little handful of screws or bolts or whatever
• 11:07
  that gets dropped on the table
• 11:09
  And you, I'm sure there's a, an intention for it, but I don't know
• 11:12
  what it is or where it should end up.
• 11:16
  Well, and the girl child makes a lot of art at daycare, which is awesome.
• 11:22
  But like two weeks ago she cut out a paper hamster, which is
• 11:27
  fine, and then she cut out.
• 11:30
  A very large amount of what amounted to confetti as hamster food and like
• 11:36
  a little hamster blanket and then a little cat, and then some cat food.
• 11:40
  And so she comes home with what I finally tossed into a court baggie.
• 11:46
  And it was almost a quart baggies worth of tiny pieces of paper that
• 11:52
  cannot be disposed of, which is, is totally fine, but that come
• 11:56
  home loose and just get dumped out.
• 11:59
  Yeah.
• 12:00
  Don't move them.
• 12:01
  And yeah, you know, I've got two little kids and five cats and two dogs.
• 12:06
  Like tiny pieces of paper is never gonna work in our house.
• 12:10
  Yeah, that's right.
• 12:11
  So I'm loving the bin idea.
• 12:14
  Also, Arlene, the Women's Food and Ag Network is accepting
• 12:19
  mentor and mentee applications.
• 12:22
  Um, I believe still primarily in Iowa and Ohio, but I know that they have had.
• 12:28
  Participants from West Virginia and pending funding other places, um, for
• 12:36
  their harvesting Our potential program, which sets experienced producers up with
• 12:42
  newer producers or experienced farmers who are looking to grow and learn, which
• 12:50
  is exactly how this podcast got started.
• 12:54
  Um, they are looking for applicants for this year's Harvesting Our Potential Pool.
• 12:59
  And the website is, I lost it, wfa.org.
• 13:08
  So that's w F as in Frank, A as in airer, N as in Nigerian, dwarf goat dot.
• 13:18
  . All right, so we are going to move ahead into our interview, and this
• 13:22
  is one of Katie's like, send out an email and see what happens.
• 13:27
  And you know what, when you have a podcast, sometimes you send out an email,
• 13:30
  ask someone who you admire to come on to your show, and they just say yes, which
• 13:36
  is like the wildest thing, but one of the best parts about, uh, having a podcast.
• 13:40
  So hope you enjoy this interview.
• 13:43
  Today we are talking to Dr.
• 13:44
  John Madigan, who's a professor at the University of California Davis.
• 13:48
  And Dr.
• 13:49
  Madigan.
• 13:50
  We start each of our interviews with the same question for all of
• 13:52
  our guests, and this is a way to introduce yourself to our listeners.
• 13:55
  And we always ask, what are you growing?
• 13:57
  So for our farming guests that covers crops and livestock, but it
• 14:00
  can also cover families, businesses, careers, all kinds of other stuff.
• 14:04
  So we'll ask you the same question.
• 14:05
  What are you growing?
• 14:08
  Yeah.
• 14:08
  Well, thanks for having me.
• 14:09
  Uh, I look forward to sharing some information.
• 14:12
  So I guess, uh, I'm not doing crops.
• 14:15
  I, uh, we have a couple of horses here at the house and, uh, I have a, uh, I'm a,
• 14:20
  uh, faculty emeriti from the University of California School of Veterinary Medicine.
• 14:25
  And, uh, they gave me the rights to one of the inventions that I have.
• 14:28
  So I have a technical rescue company where we design equipment for first responders
• 14:33
  to, uh, pull animals out of difficult situations, equine cattle and others.
• 14:38
  And, uh, and so we do trainings for that cuz my past experience with,
• 14:43
  uh, had a lot of experience with, uh, uh, rescue and emergencies things.
• 14:49
  And, uh, then I'm also, uh, uh, revising the, uh, fourth edition of
• 14:54
  my manual, Bitcoin Neonatal Medicine.
• 14:56
  And, uh, so I have a, uh, lot of activity in the world of, uh, baby
• 15:01
  horses and, uh, breeders and foing.
• 15:05
  And then, uh, I do a lot with the, uh, with the invention that, uh,
• 15:11
  came outta some of our research.
• 15:13
  Uh, and I don't mind that they called it the, uh, Madigan squeeze
• 15:17
  once I found out it actually worked.
• 15:19
  And, uh, so that's a, uh, procedure to, uh, uh, that we work for what's,
• 15:25
  uh, what we call dummy fos, and we can talk about that if you want.
• 15:28
  And, uh, so I spent a lot of time doing podcasts and explaining stuff, but it's
• 15:32
  a way to recreate birth canal pressures, which allows a, uh, calf that doesn't know
• 15:37
  its mother or a fo that's wandering around the stall, or a lamb, a pig, a crea.
• 15:44
  And it's very similar to kangaroo mother care, where there's a dramatic increase
• 15:48
  in survival with the swaddling and we use the, uh, the squeezing thing.
• 15:53
  It's, uh, so I can talk more about that, but that's, uh, that's occupying a lot
• 15:58
  of my activities and growing, I guess.
• 16:01
  Yeah,
• 16:01
  that's right.
• 16:01
  That does sound a lot of di like a lot of different things are growing.
• 16:04
  So I'm guessing that the horse people always want to know how many horses
• 16:08
  and what are you doing with them, the ones that you actually, uh,
• 16:12
  come on site?
• 16:13
  Yeah.
• 16:14
  Yeah.
• 16:14
  Right now we just have two here and, uh, uh, so right now we're just doing,
• 16:21
  uh, trail riding and then we go to some ranch friends and move some cows
• 16:26
  around, uh, once in a while just for fun.
• 16:28
  And, uh, they're quarter horses.
• 16:31
  They're very gentle.
• 16:31
  They live, uh, a very life of, uh, luxury here.
• 16:36
  And, uh, we just build a new barn and, uh, uh, with a little
• 16:40
  place to stay and you can see the horses out the window and whatnot.
• 16:44
  So, uh, . Yeah.
• 16:45
  They and I, and we use the horses to, uh, practice some of our
• 16:49
  technical rescue equipment fitting.
• 16:52
  So they're, uh, , they go in the stall, whether they eat a cookie,
• 16:56
  and, uh, we see how things fit.
• 16:59
  The, uh, the, the horses.
• 17:00
  Horses, right.
• 17:01
  Yeah.
• 17:02
  So you're not actually doing rescues, but just making sure
• 17:04
  everything, uh, fits on them.
• 17:07
  Yeah.
• 17:08
  I haven't had to rescue them yet, although we've been in a few pickles,
• 17:11
  but I haven't had to use our equipment.
• 17:15
  So
• 17:16
  how do you deal with the level of cute that is working with baby animals?
• 17:21
  Just all the time.
• 17:22
  I mean, obviously you see a lot of sick and unhappy babies too, but I
• 17:26
  would think that the, the general acute percentage is probably higher than a lot
• 17:33
  of Yeah, they're, yeah.
• 17:35
  When we, it's easy for us when they're cute, that means they're, for us to feel
• 17:40
  like, uh, that that's a pretty cool thing.
• 17:42
  They're, they're feeling good, you know, they're looking at you moving around.
• 17:47
  So they, they've recovered and, uh, so that's good.
• 17:50
  And then when we see 'em, uh, they're disoriented, recumbent, uh, flopping
• 17:56
  around, uh, that kind of thing.
• 17:59
  So they, uh, the cuteness doesn't fit at that moment.
• 18:02
  It, it comes, okay, uh, what's the matter?
• 18:05
  Make a diagnosis, uh, figure out a treatment, and then.
• 18:10
  You know, proceed from there.
• 18:11
  But it, it makes, it, it, it's sure a lot of fun.
• 18:14
  And then when you turn what the one of these foals that been upside down
• 18:18
  and doesn't know his, a mother and wandering around, then they're out
• 18:21
  running around the field and they're, he's following his mom and doing stuff.
• 18:26
  Yeah.
• 18:26
  That, that's, uh, that's a good reward system.
• 18:30
  . So I'm going to rearrange a few questions here.
• 18:33
  I actually found you through Instagram.
• 18:37
  Somebody was demonstrating using Pnma squeeze on a calf on their farm, and
• 18:43
  it wasn't something I had heard of.
• 18:44
  And as a, as a livestock producer myself, I raised beef cattle and
• 18:48
  lambs, and Arlene has dairy cattle.
• 18:51
  Um, I've certainly dealt with some lambs that didn't do real well
• 18:57
  after birth, more than calves.
• 18:59
  Um, so I'm wondering if you can tell us some about the Madigan squeeze.
• 19:04
  And my big question was how sure you were, were you that it was gonna
• 19:08
  work the first time you tried it?
• 19:09
  Were you like, pretty sure, or was it one of those like, well, it can't hurt
• 19:14
  because, you know, I know there's some things we try as farmers just because
• 19:20
  it's worth trying something, but,
• 19:23
  you know, yeah, yeah.
• 19:24
  It's, it's one of the most common questions I get is, uh, You know,
• 19:29
  it really starts with, well, how'd you decide you were gonna try this?
• 19:33
  And then, uh, you know, what was the first time you used it?
• 19:37
  And then what's the science behind it?
• 19:40
  So, uh, there's a bit of a story with it.
• 19:42
  So I guess with the podcast, that's an okay thing.
• 19:44
  So I, I started the neonatal intensive care unit, uc, Davis, in the mid eighties.
• 19:50
  And it was, uh, the third one in the United States.
• 19:52
  And at that point, when FOLs would come in, we didn't know how to hook
• 19:55
  'em up to IV fluids and give 'em glucose electrolytes and things like
• 19:59
  that, and then still be able to keep 'em with her mother and then treat 'em
• 20:03
  with antibiotics and, and things like that, and oxygen and, and all that.
• 20:08
  So I saw the critical care aspect and we said what a big part of our
• 20:11
  teaching load was this thing called the maladjustment or dummy fold.
• 20:15
  And at that point, the, uh, the, what the experts said, I am board certified
• 20:20
  internal medicine, so I'll follow my, saw myself in that category.
• 20:23
  We all, the, the word was that this was due to low oxygen.
• 20:28
  But as the time went by, I saw that, uh, these folds, if you did intensive care,
• 20:33
  they would all of a sudden wake up, uh, 2, 3, 5 days into the care, which is
• 20:39
  expensive and not everybody can do it.
• 20:41
  They'd wake up and they'd have no residual neurologic deficits whatsoever.
• 20:45
  So that doesn't happen when your brain is injured to the extent that
• 20:49
  we're seeing these abnormal behaviors and seizures and things like that.
• 20:53
  So I thought something else was going on.
• 20:57
  What, uh, what we, I was in New Zealand and um, on sabbatical and they were
• 21:02
  working with this project on is it humane to cut the tail off of a newborn lamb?
• 21:08
  Do they feel things and can you, uh, castrate 'em?
• 21:11
  Can you do things?
• 21:12
  So they had a big welfare thing.
• 21:13
  So they'd meet the European standards for export of lambs, you know, that they
• 21:17
  were raising 'em right and everything.
• 21:18
  So these guys were doing a lot of science and they said, and I just snuck into
• 21:22
  a seminar cuz I, I had time there and the guy, they were talking about these,
• 21:27
  uh, sedative progesterone derivatives.
• 21:30
  And I knew about progesterone, of course, when we think of
• 21:33
  pregnant mayors and whatnot.
• 21:34
  And, and, uh, but I didn't know that it fed into a pathway to produce sedation,
• 21:39
  uh, big time sedation, almost like Valium or a barbital or even anesthesia.
• 21:45
  So, uh, I remembered a graph that guy in England had done
• 21:49
  in the, uh, late eighties.
• 21:52
  And he showed that some of these dummy folds had elevated progesterone.
• 21:55
  He was just measuring stuff.
• 21:58
  And, uh, so I thought, whoa, well, I'd get back to home.
• 22:00
  I'm gonna measure that in some of these dummy folds.
• 22:02
  So we did, and, uh, it was sky high so that we knew that they were endogenously
• 22:09
  producing this progesterone that was feeding into the brain center that
• 22:15
  controls sedation and consciousness.
• 22:19
  And the reason for that is if you're a hundred pound full or
• 22:22
  80 pound fo in utero, uh, one of the, one of the rules is you don't
• 22:27
  gallop in the womb, but guess what?
• 22:30
  Two hours later, you better be doing it, or the predator's gonna get you.
• 22:35
  So there has to be quite a swish switch in consciousness that occurs at birth.
• 22:41
  So what is that?
• 22:42
  Is, is it light?
• 22:43
  Is it sound, is it touch?
• 22:44
  You know, you can do a rectal exam on a pregnant mirror and
• 22:46
  bump that fall and he'll wiggle around, but he's not waking up.
• 22:50
  . So, uh, anyway, so that was, uh, something to ponder.
• 22:54
  We just knew that these dummy folds were full of these and they call 'em
• 22:57
  neuro steroids cuz the progesterone's a steroid then feeds into this pathway
• 23:02
  and it's made in the brain and whatnot.
• 23:04
  And so it was a failure to transition, you know, the consciousness from the,
• 23:09
  in the womb to the external life.
• 23:11
  And it was in the fo i I wasn't thinking of other animals at that time.
• 23:15
  So I had a separate project where we were trying to do a master's project
• 23:21
  for a student and get it done.
• 23:23
  And, and when you, when you hold onto a, a fo that's in the newborn
• 23:27
  category, say 1224 hours, veterinarians and horse owners know this and
• 23:32
  you wanna do something with them.
• 23:33
  And you put your arm around the front of 'em, around the
• 23:36
  back, and you hold 'em tight.
• 23:37
  They flop their head drops and they go down and it's called the
• 23:41
  flopping reaction being described.
• 23:43
  . So we had a neurologist, uh, Dr.
• 23:45
  Monica Alman, who was working with us, and we said, let's
• 23:47
  figure out the mechanism of that.
• 23:49
  So the reason this ties in is that she was doing electrical recordings of
• 23:53
  brainwave in the fall when we would, uh, put the pressure on him and they'd flop.
• 23:59
  She said, I need 20 minutes to get this recording done, and
• 24:03
  hell, I can't hold them minute, we couldn't get anybody to hold.
• 24:05
  So I remembered this loop, uh, uh, restraint thing that they
• 24:10
  use in cattle to lay 'em down.
• 24:12
  It's from the early 19 hundreds.
• 24:14
  It's been around a long time.
• 24:15
  Two half hitches over the thorax, something around the, the chest, and
• 24:19
  you pull on it, cattle will lay down.
• 24:21
  So we tried it in the full, full leg down, did it for 20 minutes.
• 24:26
  and, uh, at the, and then we measured all kinds of different things.
• 24:29
  And since we were measuring the neuros steroids in the, in the , I
• 24:32
  said, we wanna publish this.
• 24:33
  So measure it before.
• 24:35
  Measure it after.
• 24:36
  Well, what happened is when we got the data at number one, the brain wave showed
• 24:40
  that they go immediately into sleep when you put this thing on and that
• 24:44
  showed the, and when they go through the birth canal, uh, that's a good idea
• 24:49
  because you got two legs and a nose in a miracle presentation that the mirror
• 24:53
  rolls and puts it in the position.
• 24:55
  I mean, it's kind of amazing.
• 24:56
  And if you're doing that, you sure as hell don't wanna wiggle in and
• 24:59
  moving back around and everything.
• 25:00
  So the squeeze of mobilizes them.
• 25:03
  And then at the end of our 20 minute experiment, uh, we saw that some of these
• 25:10
  neuro steroids shifted around a little.
• 25:12
  . So every, so I'm driving home one day and I'm thinking, I wonder, you
• 25:16
  know, 20 minutes is the stage duration of stage two labor of the mayor.
• 25:23
  So when she gets a fallen position, the water breaks, it's 20 minutes that the
• 25:27
  fall goes through that squeezing thing, and then all of a sudden it wakes up.
• 25:32
  So thought, Jesus, I wonder, wonder if they're, if that's, you know, if
• 25:36
  some, and then I remember this, you know that some of these folds that
• 25:40
  come in their dummies, they've had quick birth or they've been pulled.
• 25:44
  So I get a call, she'll get back to, this is a long answer to your question.
• 25:49
  How'd you know when you first had it?
• 25:50
  So here's what happens is when you're in veterinary medicine and you have people
• 25:54
  and clients, they have your cell phone.
• 25:56
  So I'm not on duty.
• 25:57
  I'm sitting in my office in the, in the, this breeder and she's, uh, Ellen Jackson,
• 26:02
  she won't mind me mentioning her name.
• 26:03
  She's a owner operator plus a racehorse trainer, magnificent individual, folds
• 26:10
  out 80, 90, uh, Meres a year there.
• 26:14
  And so she calls me and towards the end of the season she goes, Hey, I got a dummy
• 26:18
  fo here and it's the end of the season.
• 26:21
  I'm exhausted.
• 26:22
  I can't spend any money on him bringing in.
• 26:24
  He's been upside down in the feeder.
• 26:26
  He is eight hours old and somebody said you were doing research.
• 26:29
  Have you got something cheap that I can just give him?
• 26:33
  And, uh, cuz I, I, I just can't nurse one of these things along
• 26:37
  for a few hours or send them in for a few days and send them in.
• 26:39
  So I said, Oh, well what was the birth like, Ellen?
• 26:43
  And she says, oh, it was normal.
• 26:44
  I said, well, you know, you have to sometimes cross
• 26:46
  examine your, uh, your clients.
• 26:48
  And I said, well, uh, what was normal?
• 26:51
  How fast was it?
• 26:52
  She said, oh man, I was in the kitchen and the full alert went off.
• 26:55
  I went out there, he was standing up.
• 26:57
  Oh, a quick birth.
• 26:59
  Yes.
• 26:59
  And so a quick birth, you know, the birth.
• 27:02
  So I'm sitting there and I said, well, you wanna try something different?
• 27:06
  She said, if, as long as it won't hurt him and it won't cost me
• 27:08
  anything, I think your farm, you know, listeners will identify with
• 27:13
  that a particular, you know, desire.
• 27:16
  So I said, yeah, have you got a rope?
• 27:18
  And she said, hell yes, I got a rope.
• 27:20
  So I drive down there, no drugs, no medicine, no
• 27:23
  nothing on this neonatal call.
• 27:25
  And I get there and he's again trying to get upside down in the feeder,
• 27:29
  flopping around and aimlessly, she's trying to stick a bottle, his mouth, he
• 27:33
  takes a little bit of milk and whatnot.
• 27:36
  So I put this squeeze thing on him.
• 27:37
  He lays down, goes to sleep.
• 27:40
  , and here's when I knew something happened.
• 27:44
  As soon as you, I release these ropes and then all these folds, they'll, they'll,
• 27:50
  and, and if you're doing it to a normal fold, like we did a research thing,
• 27:53
  as soon as you release that pressure, it's like going outta the burst canal.
• 27:57
  They just pop right up, they stand, they stretch, they like, they've been asleep.
• 28:02
  So this guy, he, I let the rope off, he stands up and for the first time in
• 28:08
  eight hours, he nickers to his mother.
• 28:12
  And the guy that's holding the bear just about gets knocked over because she hears
• 28:18
  this from the vo, which is supposed to happen, you know, as part of the bonding.
• 28:23
  So she just bumps this guy outta the way and goes over and
• 28:27
  starts licking her, licking the.
• 28:30
  . So I figured, uh, something happened here and man, it was fast.
• 28:36
  So then I look over and the, and the owner, Ellen, she just think,
• 28:42
  and she told me later what she was thinking, she just crack.
• 28:45
  I'd call Madigan out here to wake the fo up and now he's got him laying
• 28:49
  out even flatter, going to sleep.
• 28:51
  You know, what the hell is going on here?
• 28:54
  You know, she's very practical and so she's over milking the mirror because
• 28:59
  she said, I have a stomach tube so you can tube 'em while you're here.
• 29:03
  You know, because she just seen him go sleep.
• 29:04
  I said, well, why, why don't we leave a little milk there and
• 29:08
  just see what happens for me?
• 29:09
  So he goes over and starts nursing and she's just looking at me like, oh my
• 29:14
  God, why didn't I have this 20 years ago?
• 29:16
  I've been, you know, dot da da.
• 29:18
  So that it was trauma.
• 29:21
  . And then, uh, it was towards the end of our following season, so I had another,
• 29:25
  uh, veterinary friend in Australia, Dr.
• 29:28
  Elizabeth Woolsey, and she had a 48 hour fall referred in there and she said,
• 29:34
  Hey, I, you, you mentioned something about this, you know, squeezing thing.
• 29:37
  And so she does it, he gets up in eight minutes, he's nursing and they've been
• 29:42
  48 hours of around the clock care.
• 29:45
  So we started doing it and that that was the start of it.
• 29:50
  So how far out after birth does the squeeze work?
• 29:55
  Well, the cattle people are teaching us something here because we didn't
• 29:59
  do this experiment in cattle, but they have to do the same thing.
• 30:03
  They can't, you know, poke a hole in the uterus, you know, while they're in utero.
• 30:08
  They gotta go through the burst canal.
• 30:10
  And then some of these things they do wander around, they're
• 30:13
  off the suck and whatnot.
• 30:15
  . So what we know in the fos, out for about five to seven days, this will work, but
• 30:21
  if you're not taking care of 'em in there, they're gonna be septic and hypoglycemic
• 30:25
  and, you know, not, not, anyway, so it, so it usually, we're doing this within
• 30:32
  the first three days and now people are catching on, so they do it, uh, early.
• 30:37
  But I'll have, uh, some of these, uh, things, if you go to Facebook or Google
• 30:43
  and put in Madigan, squeeze and Calf, the, these wonderful videos from the
• 30:49
  farmers, you know, uh, the, one of my favorites is the, uh, the wife is filming
• 30:55
  with the two kids next to her looking through a crack in the barn, you know,
• 30:58
  window there in the, in the, her husband's out there with a warm jacket on and
• 31:03
  she says he won't give up on that calf.
• 31:06
  He's using the esophageal feeder and it's day six now.
• 31:10
  And I told him, Hey, I heard about this thing on the internet.
• 31:14
  And then I.
• 31:15
  You know, so he's gonna try it.
• 31:17
  So, so the kids are all watching.
• 31:18
  She's watching.
• 31:19
  So he's out there, he puts it on and he is in his jacket.
• 31:22
  And then the cow is on the other side of the, the, the panel.
• 31:26
  And so he lets go of the rope and that calf walks over
• 31:30
  there, and tries to get in.
• 31:32
  He opens the gate and it starts nursing, you know?
• 31:35
  And the kids go, wow, whoa.
• 31:37
  You know, this is great.
• 31:38
  So anyway, that one was, uh, five to seven days that, uh, you know,
• 31:43
  they've been sticking with it.
• 31:46
  Yeah, it's, I'd have to say that tube feeding a baby more than
• 31:49
  once or twice, it's about the most frustrating damn thing in the world.
• 31:53
  So if there's something it'll, you know, perk them back up.
• 31:56
  It's, yeah.
• 31:58
  I assume that fos are like lambs that the longer they go without food,
• 32:02
  the stupider they get too, cuz lambs just, you know, yeah, they get real.
• 32:08
  They'll take real fast.
• 32:10
  Real fast.
• 32:11
  And, um, The group in Oregon at the, uh, Oregon State University at the
• 32:17
  vet school, and then with the ag division there, they just, uh, uh,
• 32:21
  wrote a, uh, did a study and I think they had 80 or 90 lambs in each group.
• 32:27
  The ones with the abnormal behavior and then the control group.
• 32:32
  And they concluded that when they used the squeeze procedure, it rapidly corrected
• 32:37
  the, uh, the lambs misguided mental stuff.
• 32:42
  And they started to nurse and, uh, they did ones that were seizing.
• 32:46
  They had ho there's a nice category you can see if you go lambs.
• 32:50
  And they called it the thoracic squeeze and the title.
• 32:54
  And so you can see that.
• 32:56
  And then they did it in, uh, in, uh, New Zealand.
• 33:00
  because I communicated this, you know, back to them and they had a c-section
• 33:03
  lab for the, at the vet school.
• 33:05
  So they did, you know, a cow and they did C-section, well, some of'em were kind of
• 33:08
  early, so they bypassed the birth canal.
• 33:10
  And then two of the, I think they did seven in the lab.
• 33:13
  Two of 'em weren't nursing at all.
• 33:14
  So they did the squeeze and they went over and, you know, started nursing.
• 33:18
  And then they've done, uh, some, I've done some stuff, uh, with the
• 33:22
  failure to thrive, uh, pigs as well.
• 33:25
  These little guys that, that wiggle around and get pushed away and then they
• 33:28
  start fading, uh, they can wake up again.
• 33:32
  Yeah,
• 33:33
  I was just wondering if there's any risk factors associated with, with the
• 33:36
  procedure or, um, you know, if people can mess it up because , we, we can
• 33:41
  always find ways to mess things up.
• 33:44
  Yeah, it, uh, the only contradiction would be, and it's in the folds, if they
• 33:49
  have fractured ribs and uh, if they've had a quick birth, that's unlikely.
• 33:54
  Cuz they're, that means that they're, you know, they're pretty big.
• 33:58
  And, uh, so that, that would be it.
• 34:01
  Uh, um, it's, it, it's a short procedure.
• 34:05
  Uh, the thoracic thing, if they're in respiratory distress and cyanotic and
• 34:10
  truly asphyxiated, it's not gonna do anything if there's really brain damage
• 34:14
  as opposed to a persistence of these hormones that are keeping 'em asleep.
• 34:18
  So, and all the data shows back to the dummy fos.
• 34:21
  20% do not recover even in the best intensive care.
• 34:25
  Well, those are really asphyxiated, brain damaged, uh, fos and, uh,
• 34:30
  they're not gonna get better.
• 34:32
  So, um, eight outta 10 will, but that, that the eight outta 10 are the one.
• 34:38
  That somebody brought into the clinic or the vet comes twice a
• 34:41
  day, and not everybody can do that for, you know, two to 7, 5, 7 days.
• 34:47
  It's, it's, uh, so the fact that, you know, you could, there's a lot of
• 34:51
  ways to put this thoracic pressure on.
• 34:53
  We have a little harness that we use in the clinic, but I, they, they said, why
• 34:57
  don't you sell that and market that?
• 34:59
  And I said, well, I'm afraid people are gonna think you need this damn
• 35:02
  special harness, rather than a rope that you can just put a half pitch around.
• 35:05
  So we're not gonna, we're not going to even show that in the pictures.
• 35:09
  So we stick with the rope.
• 35:11
  And I hear some people worried about putting a rope around there, but I
• 35:16
  mean, they, some of my veterinarians say, oh, I just sit on 'em now.
• 35:19
  I just sit, you know, on top of them and, uh, whatnot.
• 35:23
  So, no, it's, it, and there's so many videos of how to do it.
• 35:26
  Like you can find one, I.
• 35:28
  Manual, equine neonatal website, and it's got, you know, very easy step by step,
• 35:34
  you know, ways to do it and you'll know you're doing it right if the fo lays down
• 35:39
  and you just keep enough pressure on.
• 35:40
  People say how much pressure is, just keep some tension on there.
• 35:43
  If they start to wake up, pull it a little harder.
• 35:46
  And it's like having an untrained dog, which I'm very familiar with, out on a
• 35:50
  walk, and they're kind of pulling on you.
• 35:52
  It's about that much pressure.
• 35:54
  Does it matter, um, how big a rope you use compared to the size of the animal?
• 36:00
  I'm saying I'm okay.
• 36:02
  I'm trying to pick.
• 36:03
  No, you
• 36:04
  can, you want something that slides and produces some compression
• 36:08
  loss, uh, the dorsal, uh, over the back and then under the stern.
• 36:13
  And, uh, so, you know, a medium sized rope and without ridges on it.
• 36:18
  So it'll slide, you know, is, is easy.
• 36:21
  And there is a company, I think it's equine reproduction products
• 36:24
  or something, and they have a rope that has a Honda in it.
• 36:27
  So you don't have to, the rope would normally go, you know, over the
• 36:31
  shoulder between the front legs, and then it comes up to the withers, goes
• 36:36
  over the back, put the rope underneath it, that's called a half hitch.
• 36:40
  Then you go over the back, put it underneath that, and then you pull the
• 36:44
  long extension out behind the fold, have somebody holding it while it, then
• 36:48
  it just gradually, easily lays down.
• 36:51
  And it's used now in normal folds.
• 36:52
  And where you gotta do an ultrasound or you gotta put a IV catheter
• 36:58
  in, or you gotta run some plasma.
• 37:00
  The fo goes to sleep, you put a blindfold on them, the mayor knows the FO's asleep.
• 37:04
  You let her just stand right there.
• 37:06
  And you can do a lot of procedures in the fo uh, except that they're, they, they
• 37:11
  have a reduction in their pain response, which we determined in the experiment.
• 37:15
  They're, they're asleep, not an nesti.
• 37:17
  So you can, you can wake 'em up if you, you know, poke 'em too hard.
• 37:21
  But they do have an increase in endorphins and, uh, so they, they
• 37:25
  tolerate a little bit of, uh, things that they normally wouldn't
• 37:30
  see.
• 37:30
  This sounds promising even for having to poke at a calf.
• 37:33
  Cuz the nice part about lambs is you can, you know, pick 'em up and
• 37:36
  do stuff, but having to hold onto a calf while somebody does something
• 37:39
  to 'em is a little more, little more
• 37:42
  challenging.
• 37:42
  Yeah.
• 37:42
  Sometimes.
• 37:43
  Yeah.
• 37:44
  And they'll, they'll lay down.
• 37:45
  It makes it a hell of a lot easier.
• 37:46
  Yeah.
• 37:47
  It's as the one who's always holding on.
• 37:50
  You know, , I have a, I have a vested interest in making this easier.
• 37:54
  Yeah.
• 37:54
  Um, so did you grow up on a farm or how did you end up in, in
• 37:59
  vet medicine in the first place?
• 38:02
  Well,
• 38:03
  I, uh, you know, I actually, uh, grew up in San Francisco and then,
• 38:07
  uh, my sister liked to ride, and so my mother bought her this horse that
• 38:12
  turned out to be kind of a runaway.
• 38:14
  And, and, and they kept it in Golden Gate fields.
• 38:16
  And so for some reason I started riding it.
• 38:19
  I guess I was 12 or 13, and, and the police barn was right there.
• 38:24
  And then, so the horse would every once in a while take off and run me through
• 38:27
  an intersection, and then I would turn it up into the trees and stop it.
• 38:31
  And I wasn't phased too much by that.
• 38:33
  And then the police officers were on their mountain of patrol.
• 38:36
  They said, Hey kid, uh, come on down to our place.
• 38:40
  We , we, we wanna show you a few things.
• 38:43
  So I started doing that, and then I was riding my sister's
• 38:45
  horse so much they bought me one.
• 38:47
  Then we moved to.
• 38:49
  Woodside to have the horses.
• 38:50
  And I got a job on a, uh, children's camp in guest ranch when I was 15.
• 38:55
  I had to misrepresent my age, uh, as being a little older.
• 38:59
  And then, uh, where you taught kids riding and then played, you know, I
• 39:03
  did some roping and then I met a guy that played polo as a veterinarian.
• 39:06
  That's how I got into veterinary medicine.
• 39:09
  Uh, bill Lin Foot, and he was, he was a nine goal polo player.
• 39:12
  So I, and I started playing polo, but I was really impressed by him and
• 39:16
  he convinced me I, if I hadn't, uh, gotten a B in metal shop, I wouldn't
• 39:20
  have graduated from high school.
• 39:22
  So I had to really, uh, change some of my, uh, , uh, study habits and,
• 39:28
  uh, and then had to be motivated.
• 39:30
  And so he was a mentor for me and, uh, and I, I I, he did wild horse
• 39:36
  breaking and, uh, he, he was really a hand and, uh, he could get on a
• 39:41
  horse in 45 minutes, rope it, and then approach it and do all the things.
• 39:44
  And it's, that's all caught on this natural horsemanship.
• 39:47
  But he was, he was superb at it, but I, I noticed how he would focus on that horse.
• 39:52
  So I had attention deficit disorder, so when I was in class, I'd
• 39:55
  watch my instructor like a, like a, he watched these wild horse.
• 39:59
  And then I, my gpa my first year of, uh, junior college was 1.7.
• 40:05
  And then after I did this, I had a 3.66.
• 40:09
  And, uh, so that, that was how then I, I had to really work hard to get into
• 40:12
  vet school because I had such bad a.
• 40:17
  I think it really says something no to the power of finding the right thing for you.
• 40:22
  You know that Yeah.
• 40:24
  As someone who also, um, has adhd, that, you know, if you find that thing
• 40:29
  that interests you enough and you find the right folks to encourage you at
• 40:32
  it, you can do just about anything.
• 40:35
  But until you find that it can be a mess, and it's still a lot of work after that.
• 40:41
  So.
• 40:42
  Yep.
• 40:43
  One of the thing, yeah.
• 40:44
  One of the things you talked about at the beginning was your work in, uh,
• 40:47
  disaster and emergency response involving large animals and doing rescues.
• 40:52
  So is it just being in California that leads you into that field, or
• 40:56
  is there, there's something else.
• 40:57
  I mean, being from places where there are, you know, not really any risks of
• 41:02
  fires or earthquakes, um, you know, we feel more safe, I suppose, where we live.
• 41:08
  But what else led you into to that part of, of your work?
• 41:13
  Yeah, well when I, when I, uh, graduated from vet school, I went into
• 41:17
  private practice in Mendocino County and, um, I ended up discovering this
• 41:22
  infectious disease up there that was considered very rare in horses and,
• 41:27
  uh, only been 1616 in the world.
• 41:28
  And then I see the saw started, diagnosed a lot of 'em and ended up getting recall.
• 41:35
  The university offered me a job and, and, uh, back, uh, back at the, at
• 41:40
  the School of Veterinary Medicine.
• 41:41
  Uh, and I had a master's cuz it took me so long to get into vet school.
• 41:46
  So when I first went there, we got all these really difficult cases.
• 41:51
  We'd come in, horses would come in, in other words, down horses, you
• 41:54
  know, they'd be in a wreck, fall off a cliff or do do something.
• 41:58
  They'd come into the clinic.
• 42:00
  So I was in a referral practice.
• 42:01
  Well, we had terrible slings.
• 42:04
  . So I started working with a welder friend of mine in private practice,
• 42:07
  Charlie Anderson, when we developed this sling, it's called the Anderson Sling.
• 42:10
  And after, named after Charlie.
• 42:12
  And so I started, you know, taking care of a lot of horses, lifting
• 42:18
  'em, putting 'em in slings, and you know, helping him that way.
• 42:20
  And then I got a call from, uh, this organization, there were,
• 42:25
  uh, five mules and one horse at the Sierras at 8,000 feet.
• 42:29
  This is 1992.
• 42:30
  And, and, uh, they were gonna, big snowstorm was coming in, and
• 42:33
  so they, they couldn't get to 'em with, uh, they airlifted the people
• 42:37
  out that got caught on this pass.
• 42:38
  So they said, Hey, uh, they made a call to the school.
• 42:42
  So the dean sent the call to me and I said, well, sure.
• 42:46
  I, you know, we can, we could, you know, put him, attach him to a helicopter.
• 42:51
  Fly 'em out of there.
• 42:52
  And then they said, have you done that?
• 42:53
  I said, well, no, but, uh, you know, what's the difference between a hook
• 42:57
  that's on a helicopter, a hook that's on the top of the beam in our barn?
• 43:01
  You know, I, I, I, I know this equipment, they're not getting out of it.
• 43:05
  They, I know that, so I don't care whether it's, you know what the hook's on.
• 43:09
  Oh, okay.
• 43:10
  So anyway, I, so, so I did that and we were successful and there was
• 43:16
  a tremendous amount of publicity with a video of the fo, you know,
• 43:19
  the mule in the air and landing.
• 43:21
  And they, we landed at a ski resort.
• 43:23
  We had another team there on Hook 'em, and then we came back and got another one.
• 43:26
  So, so then there was a big flood in 97.
• 43:30
  So I, I, I'd been getting calls from fire departments, emergency place, Hey,
• 43:36
  we can't get this horse outta here.
• 43:38
  Can you do that here?
• 43:38
  Look.
• 43:39
  Yeah.
• 43:39
  Okay.
• 43:40
  So when the flood happened, I called this veterinary friend of mine up
• 43:44
  there in Yuba City when the levee broke in 97 with this atmospheric river.
• 43:48
  Like we, we had recently.
• 43:50
  and uh, and I said, you need any help?
• 43:53
  He said, yeah, the animal control went underwater.
• 43:56
  And so they took my clinic over.
• 43:58
  So they're all here and I'm hearing about all these animals that are stuck.
• 44:01
  I said, well, you want us to come up?
• 44:03
  He said, hell yeah, come up.
• 44:05
  You know?
• 44:05
  So I started doing that and then, geez, you know, we're going up boats
• 44:10
  and, you know, getting dogs and horses and, you know, you know, tying
• 44:16
  'em to, to the back of a boat when they're swimming, they get scared.
• 44:20
  They get off this high spot and you tone 'em to a levy and make
• 44:23
  'em stand with their head out of the water and things like that.
• 44:26
  So, since I've done a lot of cowboy stuff, it was just easy, you know, for
• 44:29
  me, uh, to do relative to some others I guess that, that, you know, just
• 44:35
  anyways, just kind of a personality thing.
• 44:38
  And, uh, so then the governor has this big deal and.
• 44:43
  , um, you know, thanks everybody.
• 44:44
  And then all of a sudden I'm on the California Animal Response emergency
• 44:48
  system training, you know, uh, committee, committee . So all of a sudden I'm, you
• 44:56
  know, you know, in this disaster thing.
• 44:58
  But I've been there, done that, and so I have some ideas.
• 45:01
  So that's how I got started.
• 45:03
  And then our students wanted to do it, so I would, you know, uh, they thought we
• 45:08
  were much or more organized than we were.
• 45:09
  They said, God, you guys respond well, you know, when I get a
• 45:12
  call, I walk through the barn.
• 45:13
  Are you busy?
• 45:13
  No.
• 45:14
  Okay.
• 45:14
  You know, we didn't have a call out list or anything.
• 45:17
  They, they had really no idea was, you know, okay.
• 45:20
  Anybody, is anybody using that truck?
• 45:22
  Okay, let's get it.
• 45:25
  . It was that kind of thing that got me into, uh, the emergency stuff.
• 45:28
  Then it got very, very organized.
• 45:30
  So our school of vet Med Veterinary Emergency Response
• 45:33
  team, we have 90 students in it.
• 45:35
  And, uh, I started that and then I helped write the legislation
• 45:39
  for the Cal Vet program.
• 45:40
  We got $3 million a year, uh, to that program every year to coordinate with
• 45:45
  the California Department of Food and Ag and do trainings, get counties
• 45:49
  up to speed and things like that.
• 45:52
  What equipment do they need, and then have a coordinated response.
• 45:55
  So I'm not doing that.
• 45:56
  I just helped kind of lay some groundwork for it.
• 46:01
  Sure.
• 46:02
  Have there been recent rescues with the, I mean, we've been hearing about the,
• 46:06
  the flooding in California as of late.
• 46:08
  Have there been a lot of animal rescues that have been required or Oh yeah.
• 46:11
  Oh yeah.
• 46:12
  Yeah.
• 46:13
  Yes.
• 46:13
  They've been.
• 46:15
  Well, yeah, there's been, there, there, there's a lot of movement of animals.
• 46:20
  I, there hasn't been any, uh, dramatic things that I'm aware of.
• 46:24
  What, what, what, when, when, you know, something's coming, like
• 46:27
  these storms, you know, it, it, it's now it's not like, oh gee, I
• 46:32
  never thought this was gonna happen.
• 46:34
  So after all these years where the wildfires and now with the, with the
• 46:38
  flooding and everything, there's these county animal emergency response teams,
• 46:44
  and none of that existed when we, you know, got the first call for that.
• 46:48
  We didn't have any of that.
• 46:49
  So we don't, uh, there was a rescue on the Tevas Cup with, uh, a horse had
• 46:54
  to get air lifted out of there, and they used our equipment and protocols
• 46:58
  and, and uh, things like that.
• 47:00
  But, uh, with the floods there's always, you know, horses that are in water
• 47:05
  that people have to wait out and get.
• 47:08
  but people are getting smarter here and they do things in advance and they move
• 47:12
  the animals, the, you know, the higher ground or the neighbors and whatnot.
• 47:16
  Especially with a little advanced warning that something big is happening.
• 47:22
  So, Dr.
• 47:23
  Madigan, can you describe some of the equipment that you've created?
• 47:26
  Cuz I know, you know, we see a lot of animal welfare videos, you know,
• 47:32
  decrying and hip lifts and that, and I don't think that non livestock
• 47:36
  folks get how big cattle and horses are and that you can't just grab 'em
• 47:42
  cuz they've got, you know, bones and squishy internal bits and, and that
• 47:47
  they move, you know, which really Yeah.
• 47:49
  Makes it harder than picking up a car or something, you know.
• 47:53
  , you can't just grab 'em.
• 47:55
  Yeah.
• 47:56
  And then, so when it happens to a cow rancher, it doesn't happen every day.
• 48:00
  So they're a low frequency event.
• 48:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:02
  , but they're, and then we call that high hazard too, because it things can go wrong
• 48:07
  for the animal or the people responding.
• 48:09
  And so in the fire department, if they respond, whether it's a rancher, a fire
• 48:13
  department, they have the same thing.
• 48:14
  It's a low frequency, high hazard event.
• 48:16
  So the experience that we had, like with this Anderson sling, I had to give a talk.
• 48:21
  So we pulled up the records.
• 48:22
  It'd been used in 3,500 horses since we invented it.
• 48:27
  So we have a hell of a lot of experience about, you know, how to do this stuff.
• 48:31
  So that's a good sling, but it's hard to get on a recumbent pat, a down horse or
• 48:36
  a down count or anything underneath it.
• 48:38
  It's got so many buckles and straps and everything.
• 48:40
  So then the next invention, I had what's called the large animal lift,
• 48:44
  and that's commercially available with another company, not mine.
• 48:48
  And it slides underneath them and it has a bar over the top of it.
• 48:53
  and that that's an okay piece of equipment.
• 48:55
  It's about 2,800 bucks.
• 48:56
  The Anderson sling's about 14,000 or 12 thou, no, excuse me, 6,000.
• 49:01
  And so there's a bit of a investment.
• 49:04
  So you, so I mean, being a practical guy, you know, said two things.
• 49:09
  One, it's gotta be accessible equipment at the time you need it, you've gotta
• 49:14
  be, it's gotta be easy to put on.
• 49:17
  and you've got, it's gotta be portable.
• 49:20
  So we, the thing that we have now is called this loops rescue system.
• 49:23
  Been sent a duffle bag that you can carry, and then it has a guidebook in
• 49:29
  there where if you take the time to read this or do one training with it,
• 49:33
  it, it, the, a person stands behind the back of the horse or the cow.
• 49:38
  And then you read, reads to the person, throw the loop over the upper
• 49:42
  front leg, pull it towards you, then put the loop over the cow or the
• 49:47
  horse's head, pull it around you.
• 49:49
  Now that's step one, step two, da, da, da.
• 49:52
  So the fire department guys, they read to each other.
• 49:54
  It's like, pull an a, e, D for a defibrillator.
• 49:57
  You pull it off the wall, they, they tell you everything, walk to the
• 49:59
  patient, you know, then open the shirt or whatever, you know, put the pedal.
• 50:03
  So this guidebook, step by step.
• 50:05
  So, cuz I could see our students couldn't remember if you don't, if you only do it.
• 50:09
  Intermittently.
• 50:10
  You, I'm good at.
• 50:11
  So this thing, yeah, it, it's very simplified and there's no knots.
• 50:16
  It's a continuous loop.
• 50:17
  So I just pondered this and then, uh, Dr.
• 50:21
  Alman and I were with one of our horses.
• 50:23
  We were out here cuz you don't wanna put it under their arm and then lift them
• 50:26
  up cuz the brachial plexus is there.
• 50:28
  So we figured out if you pass it over the head and bill crisscross under the
• 50:32
  sternum, it lifts by the skeletal system, whether it's a cow, a horse, a giraffe.
• 50:36
  We have one for giraffes that's a little longer straps.
• 50:40
  And, uh, we have an inflatable giraffe to practice at the zoos,
• 50:45
  you know, with how to, how to pull a giraffe around and things like that.
• 50:49
  And, uh, so that's the, it's called the loops rescue system.
• 50:53
  It's, uh, on the internet and uh, my son and I distribute it, do the
• 50:58
  training, and uh, it's less than $500.
• 51:01
  So that's the advantage.
• 51:03
  And it has everything we think.
• 51:05
  Uh, somebody needs, and it doesn't take up a lot of space in a firetruck.
• 51:09
  So the other thing is, uh, one of the guys, the Office of Marine Reserves,
• 51:12
  they're getting it N F P A approved for the fire departments so they
• 51:16
  can use their federal funds to, to grab, you know, to purchase it.
• 51:20
  And, uh, well I'm, I'm doing a training in Illinois this month.
• 51:24
  I'm gonna do it over the internet cuz it's, uh, I've worked with some
• 51:28
  of the guys there so they know it.
• 51:29
  But they're gonna train, uh, their, their first responders and
• 51:33
  then they're gonna train some of the rural fire department guys.
• 51:36
  Cause you got a horse sticking his head out with some ice and everything.
• 51:39
  It's hard to get in there on the mud.
• 51:42
  So we have a real practical.
• 51:44
  Approach, and we think you can do about 85, 90% of what you need to do out of
• 51:49
  this duffle bag compared to having a rescue trailer with hooks, snaps, and
• 51:54
  guideposts, you know, and all, all this stuff with, which is behind a
• 51:58
  lock gate on a Sunday where somebody doesn't have the key and the person,
• 52:02
  there's one person on duty and they're an hour away looking for a lost dog.
• 52:08
  And you've gotta wait with a horse or a cow flopping around, stuck somewhere.
• 52:12
  So you have to have accessible equipment.
• 52:14
  That means it has to be affordable and it has to be able to have
• 52:17
  an instruction guide in it.
• 52:18
  So that's been the guiding principles for that.
• 52:22
  . Well, I know one of my husband's friend's boys was in a tractor rollover this
• 52:26
  fall and thank God was not killed.
• 52:29
  But realizing how far away the equipment is to deal with something like that
• 52:34
  really drives home the importance of being able to do something, like
• 52:37
  throwing a duffel bag in the back of a truck instead of having to go.
• 52:41
  Yeah.
• 52:41
  You know, it was an hour and a half drive to get the equipment they needed to get
• 52:45
  everything back up the hill and off him.
• 52:47
  And that was,
• 52:49
  ugh, serious.
• 52:50
  Oh no, it exactly right.
• 52:53
  And, um, you know, if you're on a pack trip and the horse gets in the
• 52:56
  mud, you can have, you know, I, I do some lectures in the mountains
• 53:00
  in Craig London at his pack station there in the Sierra, as he has one.
• 53:05
  And, uh, one of these kits.
• 53:07
  And, and, uh, if you have it in a horse trailer at a barn, you
• 53:12
  can grab it and, and you know, horses that down is dead for them.
• 53:16
  So they, they fight like hell.
• 53:17
  They, and then all these secondary engine, by the time you get there with
• 53:21
  equipment in two, three hours, they're in another bad, further bad state.
• 53:27
  Yeah, I was gonna say, it says a lot about your horsemanship that you've done in
• 53:30
  this many rescues and haven't been killed.
• 53:32
  So
• 53:34
  yeah, I think that somebody was acting
• 53:37
  Somebody was asking me, they go, Hey, uh, how'd you get this protocol?
• 53:42
  When we were doing the airlift of mules, cuz a packer couldn't go in, there was
• 53:45
  only so much room in the helicopter.
• 53:47
  And then we had the other guy that was doing the lifting helicopter
• 53:50
  and uh, so he said a couple of those mules don't like it.
• 53:53
  Just everybody that they see, you know.
• 53:55
  And so we had to walk em out in the snow where, so the, the helicopter came
• 54:00
  in with a long line and then we had to put the frame over the top of em.
• 54:04
  So we started blindfolding them, you know, cuz we learned that, that in,
• 54:08
  in, uh, and then when we've done.
• 54:10
  Trainings up the Marine Mount Warfare, you know, the, the, the, the Marine guys.
• 54:14
  They're like, oh, here's a college professor to show us what to do.
• 54:17
  You know?
• 54:18
  And, and so they go, well, you can catch if you can, you know, put this on Freddy,
• 54:23
  you know, you can use anything here.
• 54:25
  And they go, well, where's Freddy?
• 54:26
  Oh, we got him in the squeeze shoot so we can put the halter on him.
• 54:29
  You know, so I, oh, okay.
• 54:31
  So I put Freddy out on the tar back after we got the halter on me.
• 54:35
  And he, he, he was really an expert at kicking, but we blindfolded him and then
• 54:40
  he tried to kick and he fell down and he couldn't see what happened to him.
• 54:43
  He got back up and he thought, damn, I tell you, these guys are tough.
• 54:46
  I better stand still.
• 54:48
  So yeah, there I've been, you gotta have a little savvy, you know, since cowboy
• 54:53
  stuff where no, we better not do that.
• 54:56
  We better stand here.
• 54:57
  Wait a second.
• 54:58
  I was on a trail ride and a friend of mine was trying to go up out of the water and
• 55:03
  there'd been a big change in the river, and his horse fell backwards with him.
• 55:08
  and he got his rain, his foot over the rain, and the rain was
• 55:11
  over the horn of the saddle.
• 55:13
  So the horse was stuck and he was flailing around and the guy barely got out of
• 55:17
  this, it was 10 feet of water or so, where he is, where the horse moved in.
• 55:22
  So I galloped up to see where he is, helped him get out, and I'm
• 55:24
  watching this horse f flopping around.
• 55:26
  And I, so getting back to this instinct, I remember get, when you
• 55:30
  get your, you know, lifesaver thing, they'd go wait for the person to
• 55:33
  quit struggling and then grab him.
• 55:35
  So this horse just went under the water and then I walked out and stuck
• 55:39
  his head out and he held his breath.
• 55:40
  He blew a bunch of water out of his nose, believe it or not.
• 55:44
  And then he just like a, like a sort of a submerged boat that was on its side.
• 55:48
  I could just drag him to the edge and got my pocket knife out and
• 55:52
  cut his rain off of the horn.
• 55:53
  He stood up.
• 55:54
  But if I tried to, you know, jump in anyway, it's, yeah, you gotta, you
• 55:59
  gotta have that sixth sense to like a, kind of like a, uh, rodeo clown.
• 56:06
  Yeah, , I don't know a lot about how the fire service works and I'm in Canada,
• 56:11
  so I mean, it's probably a different system, but are there ways that we as
• 56:14
  farmers could advocate to get our fire departments, to have that gear on site?
• 56:19
  Or are there programs to, to, to kind of put a bit of pressure on
• 56:24
  to make sure that those things are available if we should need them?
• 56:26
  Because I know in some places there aren't a lot of farms, but you're
• 56:30
  also depending on those people to help you out when you need it.
• 56:34
  Yeah, well, a lot of these communities do have, you know, the, uh, well, they,
• 56:40
  California, they named California.
• 56:41
  They, uh, county animal response teams.
• 56:45
  Well, when you're really rural and you, you, you, you, you know that if you've
• 56:51
  got a problem, then you, you, you get a group of people that say, well, if you
• 56:54
  have a problem, here's a call, call list.
• 56:57
  And, uh, you know, we'll, we'll drop what we're doing and.
• 57:01
  and, you know, go over there, uh, go to the site.
• 57:04
  So a lot of times it's through the volunteer fire departments.
• 57:07
  That's where, you know, they go and then they have to respond because they'll be,
• 57:11
  they get these animal calls all the time.
• 57:13
  I mean, if you go to Google and look at fire department and horse
• 57:16
  rescue, there'll be some horse pulled out of this or that every week.
• 57:20
  So I think there's two things that it's, one is that you get a little
• 57:24
  training and you should train with something that's very simple.
• 57:29
  And then you should have it be affordable so that it's not a, you
• 57:33
  know, it's not you, you, you'll, you'll, you'll pull the trigger on it because
• 57:38
  you're not gonna use it very often.
• 57:40
  And, uh, I think if you start with that and then send one of your
• 57:45
  guys, if you, we do these trainings periodically and they learn how to.
• 57:50
  . Now what we do is we have a PowerPoint and a disc that gives all the background
• 57:55
  on the different equipment you can use and why you might wanna use this,
• 57:58
  and the limitations of all the things.
• 58:00
  And then the steps to do it in the mud, in the water, off the edge,
• 58:06
  pull it backwards, pulling forward.
• 58:08
  And you can actually, they can give that PowerPoint after they've
• 58:12
  been to one of these trainings and show the other people how to do it.
• 58:17
  And it, and that's the, you know, in Vet Med they used to say, uh, okay,
• 58:22
  uh, here's what you're gonna do is, uh, w watch one, do one, teach one.
• 58:29
  You know, so it's a little bit like that, but it has to be simple,
• 58:33
  practical, and then have a reminder system, which is this little booklet.
• 58:37
  It's not on a damn app, it's in print.
• 58:40
  It's, it's, uh, waterproof, coffee proof, manure proof.
• 58:47
  , you know, so that you can go, okay, we're gonna pull 'em backwards.
• 58:50
  So, okay.
• 58:51
  Stand here.
• 58:51
  Tell me which leg do I throw this damn thing over.
• 58:54
  Okay.
• 58:55
  Yeah.
• 58:56
  And then you can stretch these out.
• 58:57
  There's four loops in there.
• 58:59
  So you can pull for, well, you can put six, eight people on the end of
• 59:02
  this after you attach it to the front of the back of the cow or the horse.
• 59:06
  And you can loop these together.
• 59:08
  And then there's another six feet, another six feet, and you'd get a whole pile
• 59:12
  of people and give a yank on this thing if you can't get your equipment there.
• 59:17
  So that's all kind of, you know, that just comes from the cowboy
• 59:21
  up stuff that I grew up with.
• 59:23
  Well, it's
• 59:24
  good to see too, you know, animal handling equipment that's built for
• 59:27
  when things are going wrong, because it seems like so much of what we see is
• 59:32
  it'll work great as long as this horse is stuck somewhere on dry flat cement.
• 59:38
  You know, like . It wouldn't be stuck.
• 59:41
  Yeah.
• 59:41
  If it was somewhere that it was gonna be easy to get it
• 59:43
  out of cuz it would've just.
• 59:45
  Walked away, you know, wouldn't be an issue.
• 59:47
  Yeah, we've got even a thing called a people mover in there and uh, it's got
• 59:53
  all these straps on, it's 1800 pounds and you can get it under a horse.
• 59:57
  And then if you can attach the, one of these loops to that on either side of
• 1:00:01
  that, and then the loop on the horse.
• 1:00:03
  So you got a drag system if you do have to go over kind of really rough stuff too.
• 1:00:08
  And that's all that's in the bottom of the bag.
• 1:00:11
  So, uh, you know, as you mentioned that, cuz some of these skids are
• 1:00:15
  really nice, but they're, they're great big, you know, 10 feet, you know, you
• 1:00:21
  don't, you don't always have that.
• 1:00:22
  So we got this and if you tear a couple holes in it, great.
• 1:00:26
  Get another one.
• 1:00:26
  After you're done, you're gonna use it again in about a year or maybe two.
• 1:00:30
  So you said people mover.
• 1:00:31
  I thought maybe we were talking about, you know, like when I was pregnant
• 1:00:35
  and I got stuck in the mud out in the sheep lot and lost my boots and we
• 1:00:39
  coulda used some sort of a hoist system
• 1:00:41
  for that one system too.
• 1:00:42
  That's the other thing.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah.
• 1:00:44
  We always make a joke and say, God dang it.
• 1:00:46
  Now you animal lover people.
• 1:00:48
  If we go out there and the rider, there's been a wreck and the horse is off the
• 1:00:53
  edge and there's also a person there.
• 1:00:55
  You gotta use the people motor on the person first.
• 1:01:00
  . Cause these other people say, oh, we gotta get the horse.
• 1:01:03
  No.
• 1:01:03
  Okay, no people first.
• 1:01:08
  So as people who have livestock, one of the things that's, you know
• 1:01:12
  is always in the back of your mind is what to do in an emergency.
• 1:01:15
  So what things should we be doing as livestock owners to be ready for
• 1:01:19
  an emergencies when they come up?
• 1:01:20
  What things should we have already in place?
• 1:01:23
  Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  Well, that's a really good question and there's lots of good literature on it, but
• 1:01:29
  figure out what the risk factor is for the season, that seasons that you experience.
• 1:01:34
  You know, it could be, you know, uh, freezing.
• 1:01:38
  It could be flood, it could be fire, it could be, you get a lot of earthquakes.
• 1:01:43
  And so, you know, when I, I give a talk in Japan, it was all about earthquake and
• 1:01:48
  animal sheltering and things like that.
• 1:01:51
  So if you're gonna have a fire, okay, what are we gonna do?
• 1:01:55
  If we're gonna shelter in place, where are we gonna move the animals
• 1:01:58
  or whatnot for a defensible space?
• 1:02:01
  And that may mean we gotta rearrange a little landscaping.
• 1:02:04
  So you sit and make a plan so that that's the, that's the deal.
• 1:02:08
  And.
• 1:02:10
  You can, the farmers and ranchers are very practical, but if you just say,
• 1:02:15
  identify what's the problem and then say, okay, could we move all these cattle?
• 1:02:20
  Uh, if the fire starts right away, if it's a long distance away and
• 1:02:23
  it's liable to come, yeah, you may be able to have time, but if you don't,
• 1:02:27
  so you figure out a scenario for a rapid, uh, what are you gonna do?
• 1:02:31
  And if you gotta leave everybody, if you gotta have the carrier for the
• 1:02:34
  dog, the cats and all this stuff, there's some very elaborate, you know,
• 1:02:39
  preparations have seven days of food and, you know, this kind of thing.
• 1:02:43
  It, it just enough to, to save you first and your family members and then the pets.
• 1:02:51
  And then what about the livestock and things like that.
• 1:02:54
  So you have your important papers, dammit, you know, just have 'em in a
• 1:02:57
  deal that you grab and take with you, you know, have that on your list.
• 1:03:01
  So, You just gotta sit down and say this could happen.
• 1:03:05
  That's the first thing is that this probably won't happen to me, you know?
• 1:03:08
  Well we all got a safety belt on now, but back in the day, you know, when
• 1:03:13
  they were just didn't even have 'em.
• 1:03:15
  It was like, uh, I'm not going on too long of a trip.
• 1:03:17
  I don't have to wear it.
• 1:03:18
  You know?
• 1:03:18
  Now that kind thing, you just have to say this could happen
• 1:03:22
  or it happened to somebody else.
• 1:03:23
  So we better sit down and go through the personal plan, the family plan, the
• 1:03:29
  pet plan, and then the livestock plan.
• 1:03:33
  And then if you check with your county Office of Emergency Services, because
• 1:03:39
  once you leave it's hard to get back in.
• 1:03:42
  And if you have to take some ding online training about, which basically
• 1:03:48
  tells you if the fire department to go in there, you need an escort.
• 1:03:51
  If we tell you to leave, you gotta leave.
• 1:03:53
  And very practical, but you get a little okay.
• 1:03:57
  Badge if you will.
• 1:03:58
  So they finally passed legislation cuz ranchers would go in and say, Hey, I
• 1:04:02
  just gotta push these cows out up here.
• 1:04:04
  And they say, no, it's a roadblock.
• 1:04:06
  Or trailers trying to get into a a, a, a stable that's, that's being evacuated
• 1:04:11
  and they don't have enough trailers and they're so they, yeah, they want
• 1:04:14
  everybody to evacuate and the guy at the roadblock says, you can't come in.
• 1:04:17
  No, we're we're going.
• 1:04:18
  And he, so well, I, I'm, I'm here to help move the horses out and we have time.
• 1:04:22
  Sorry you can't get in.
• 1:04:23
  So if you have one of these office emergency services, what do I need
• 1:04:28
  to get back in or to be helpful?
• 1:04:31
  Uh, or to say that I understand what the risks are and that you've got a
• 1:04:35
  name and you've got maybe a badge.
• 1:04:38
  it is helpful to me cuz when I've gotta go somewhere and they're blocking people,
• 1:04:41
  blocking people, and then they'll have a, a, uh, code that I gotta say to the
• 1:04:46
  guy on the, uh, the roadblock and that, you know, they make a joke at, they
• 1:04:50
  go tell 'em Madigan, that's the code.
• 1:04:52
  I go, uh, I don't, they, they think I'm making that up.
• 1:04:55
  It's in my light driver's license.
• 1:04:57
  But anyway,
• 1:04:59
  I like that.
• 1:05:00
  It's like, uh, bond, James Bond.
• 1:05:03
  It'll just be, you know, yeah.
• 1:05:04
  Madigan, Dr.
• 1:05:05
  Madigan here to rescue horses.
• 1:05:08
  Um, yeah, I was thinking too, you know, so many rural folks.
• 1:05:14
  You know, I'm in Iowa and more of the emergencies we see are flooding in that.
• 1:05:17
  Um, but we're starting to see so much about pets, especially getting
• 1:05:22
  separated from owners during emergencies and trying to get people
• 1:05:26
  matched back with the right animals.
• 1:05:29
  And I know as a, as a rural farmer, this fancy town crap, like microchipping
• 1:05:35
  has never been something I considered.
• 1:05:37
  And then, yeah, you know, we got a, got another dog and the vet said,
• 1:05:41
  you know, it's, it's 20 bucks to get a micro chipped now, right?
• 1:05:45
  I was like, well, shit.
• 1:05:47
  And then she even came out to the car and did it.
• 1:05:49
  And I have to say that's pretty cheap insurance for knowing
• 1:05:52
  that, you know, somebody will microchips that much easier to bring
• 1:05:57
  them back.
• 1:05:57
  The thing you can do when you get separated and somebody says, oh
• 1:06:01
  yeah, that's my Palomino, you know, quarter horse there, I wanna take
• 1:06:05
  it home is a simple thing to do is take your picture with your pet.
• 1:06:11
  And have it on your phone that you're not gonna lose or back up or on the
• 1:06:15
  internet because you can show a picture of your pet, but you could have got
• 1:06:18
  it off the internet, but not the two of you standing together was some,
• 1:06:22
  you know, something that reflects, you know, you're at your place too.
• 1:06:26
  And that's a very, you know, useful actually re reunification thing.
• 1:06:31
  We had to make these pet pads for us, for the campfire, the Butte, there
• 1:06:34
  was so many animals overwhelming this temporary shelter in this, uh, former.
• 1:06:40
  Mental hospital of all things.
• 1:06:42
  You know, back in the day when people weren't on the street, so we were trying
• 1:06:45
  to keep a shelter, it was terrible.
• 1:06:47
  So we wanted to move 'em to other counties, well they'd say, well, we
• 1:06:50
  could lose track of 'em and they'd have a microchip, but what if they
• 1:06:53
  have the wrong reader or whatnot?
• 1:06:55
  So we created these pet passports and the best thing is back to the old
• 1:06:58
  thing, is the photo of the, of the pet that goes along with the collar.
• 1:07:03
  Cuz the collar can come off the, the microchip is great if you have it on
• 1:07:07
  there, but the, the photo with the owner that's going to be requesting the animal,
• 1:07:12
  whether it's a horse or not, is good.
• 1:07:14
  And then if your horse get loose, you know, you, it's nice to have
• 1:07:18
  something written on 'em or a collar or something like that.
• 1:07:21
  But we have microchip for horses too.
• 1:07:24
  So, but what I'm hearing you say is that the next time somebody argues about having
• 1:07:28
  our dogs in our formal family portraits, I can tell 'em that you said we had to.
• 1:07:32
  I like, I like this a lot.
• 1:07:34
  I
• 1:07:34
  mean, it's, it's a safety measure, dammit.
• 1:07:36
  Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  We had
• 1:07:37
  our, we had our dog in our weddings, so there's dogs in every family picture.
• 1:07:41
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:07:41
  You know, it's,
• 1:07:42
  yeah.
• 1:07:43
  No, that's right.
• 1:07:44
  And you can't keep 'em out of there.
• 1:07:46
  If you did you and you're videoing, all you'd hear is woof, woof.
• 1:07:49
  You know, the, they might as well just let 'em sit there next to you.
• 1:07:53
  Yep.
• 1:07:53
  My, uh, in our wedding photos, my ossie is tucked up under the
• 1:07:57
  skirt of my wedding dress through pretty much the entire ceremony.
• 1:08:00
  Oh, there you go.
• 1:08:00
  So,
• 1:08:01
  you know.
• 1:08:01
  Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  I forget what movie I saw where, uh, oh, it was James Harriet.
• 1:08:07
  Do you watch that?
• 1:08:08
  Where the, the dog ate the wedding ring and then they had to give , give
• 1:08:13
  him the buster to make him throw up
• 1:08:17
  Yeah.
• 1:08:17
  So, right.
• 1:08:18
  One of our dogs actually ate my daughter's umbilical cord when it
• 1:08:21
  fell off right after she was born.
• 1:08:23
  So I said, you know, oh wow.
• 1:08:25
  That's how you know they're really part of the family when they go ahead and.
• 1:08:28
  Party or kid.
• 1:08:28
  Yeah, they're bonded.
• 1:08:29
  He looked so cute.
• 1:08:30
  Not
• 1:08:30
  in the hospital.
• 1:08:31
  Just to clarify though, not at the hospital.
• 1:08:33
  No.
• 1:08:34
  , no, no.
• 1:08:34
  He would let Ola into the hospital.
• 1:08:38
  . Poor dumb creature.
• 1:08:39
  That's all right.
• 1:08:40
  I'm gonna ask, I was gonna ask a parenting question, John, because we're both, uh,
• 1:08:44
  parenting and an Ag podcast, and I'm at the stage of life where my oldest
• 1:08:49
  is going off to school in the fall, and as a professor, I'm wondering if
• 1:08:53
  you have any advice on things that we should be doing now to make sure that
• 1:08:58
  she's as ready as she can be for, uh, the university or college experience.
• 1:09:03
  Because, you know, as a parent, I'm feeling nervous about it, obviously, so I
• 1:09:07
  figure you've got some expertise in this.
• 1:09:10
  . Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Well, I, you know, it's a changing environment, you know, from when, uh,
• 1:09:15
  and I have, uh, my kids, you know, went through that and, uh, I ended
• 1:09:20
  up, uh, taking him to school, pulling him outta school and taking him to New
• 1:09:25
  Zealand with me when I did that, uh, six month sabb at, so my son went to
• 1:09:30
  a high school at a school, and then my daughter went to Mass University and she
• 1:09:34
  ended up staying there and graduating.
• 1:09:36
  So the, what, what, when I left her there, she was living with a,
• 1:09:40
  a family that I met and knew via Veted and, and that kind of thing.
• 1:09:45
  So she had a, it wasn't, uh, some, you know, uh, eight kids living in a
• 1:09:51
  three-story place at like Idaho, uh, you know, which is a party, you know, thing.
• 1:09:56
  So, You know, the dorm thing is good because you start and you meet people and
• 1:10:02
  staying in the dorm is, is a good idea.
• 1:10:05
  And if you have a school that, you know, here in California, there's some
• 1:10:09
  a schools Cal Poly and things like that.
• 1:10:12
  And, uh, Davis is, it's huge now, but I think, uh, getting in the dorm
• 1:10:17
  and then when they do get outside the dorm, you really wanna be
• 1:10:20
  careful what you know on the roommate selection and you know, how many kids
• 1:10:25
  are in there and things like that.
• 1:10:27
  And spend some extra money so they have some privacy, you know, for the
• 1:10:31
  studying because the distraction.
• 1:10:33
  When I was in college, one of the things I had to do was I had
• 1:10:35
  to move out of the apartment.
• 1:10:37
  I was living with three other guys and get my own, you know, it was a real dive,
• 1:10:42
  but I could sleep, get up, study, you know, I had control of my environment.
• 1:10:47
  So I think that that is really important.
• 1:10:50
  And, uh, yeah, I, I, it, it's a challenge.
• 1:10:54
  Uh, you know, I, things are with the social media and all this stuff, so I
• 1:11:00
  think a good school that's grounded in, you know, fundamentals and that, that's,
• 1:11:04
  that's getting harder to find, uh, would be one of the most important things.
• 1:11:10
  And then the dorm, and then the schooling, and then, uh, you know,
• 1:11:13
  that, that, and letting 'em know there's gonna be a lot of distractions.
• 1:11:17
  And, uh, you know, that if they wanna stay there, you know, you, you, they're gonna
• 1:11:22
  have to, you know, try to achieve this.
• 1:11:25
  And if they get into trouble in something, that's okay, but get the help.
• 1:11:28
  Figure out where you go to the study hall where you go to.
• 1:11:31
  Thing and don't feel like if your roommate doesn't go to those extra
• 1:11:36
  study sessions that you do like this.
• 1:11:38
  Bill Linwood told me, he said, if you gotta stay eight hours for that
• 1:11:42
  physics test and your roommate and for you to just get a B and your
• 1:11:45
  roommate, you know, just sails through and gets an A, it doesn't matter.
• 1:11:48
  That's what you gotta do.
• 1:11:49
  You're, you're, you gotta, you know, you're, you have your own thing.
• 1:11:54
  But if you gotta do that eight hours to get that grade, then do it.
• 1:11:57
  It doesn't matter what the other people are doing.
• 1:12:00
  So that was good advice for me because I did have to really, uh, had to
• 1:12:04
  record classes and things like that.
• 1:12:07
  So you figure out what your learning style is and then, uh, you know, it,
• 1:12:13
  it, it's a, it's a bit of an adaption and uh, but I think the type of school
• 1:12:18
  and the housing that you have is the best first start that I would suggest.
• 1:12:23
  And that my kids thrived in New Zealand and my son didn't have as good
• 1:12:28
  a coaching thing here in the town.
• 1:12:31
  We were in the coaching, there was very, very, uh, good for,
• 1:12:36
  uh, getting the students to feel like the coach believed in them.
• 1:12:39
  And that, uh, you know, uh, you know, you wanna play in this position
• 1:12:45
  if it's working, let's try that.
• 1:12:46
  If you tell me that helps you, but otherwise, you know, and then
• 1:12:48
  a coach would hear, would tell 'em, stand here, don't do this.
• 1:12:51
  And, and, uh, so this, that, and then they would walk to school.
• 1:12:57
  Uh, you know, the proximity to the, to the, you know,
• 1:13:00
  where your, your classes are.
• 1:13:02
  It's really important.
• 1:13:03
  That's why the dorms to start with.
• 1:13:05
  And then your secondary housing don't be too far away.
• 1:13:08
  And, uh, so you can bike or walk, you know, to school if you can.
• 1:13:13
  Yeah, those are good
• 1:13:14
  reminders.
• 1:13:14
  I, uh, , it's residence applications open today, the day that we're recording.
• 1:13:19
  So we're, uh, we're on on schedule to get her application, uh, put in
• 1:13:24
  today to be in residence next year.
• 1:13:26
  So we've, uh, hopefully we'll have the first piece of your
• 1:13:29
  advice, uh, followed for sure.
• 1:13:32
  Oh, that's
• 1:13:32
  good.
• 1:13:33
  John.
• 1:13:33
  I actually did my study abroad at Massey and had a great experience, so.
• 1:13:37
  Oh, you did?
• 1:13:38
  Yep.
• 1:13:38
  But Arlene, my advice was just gonna be to let her buy some more cows so she doesn't
• 1:13:42
  have any money to get into trouble.
• 1:13:44
  You know, , a couple more show happens.
• 1:13:47
  Show, but there's no money for tuition
• 1:13:48
  either.
• 1:13:52
  minor, little pay
• 1:13:53
  for
• 1:13:53
  tuition and red note somehow.
• 1:13:55
  Yeah.
• 1:13:57
  Yeah.
• 1:13:58
  So, John, what do you.
• 1:14:02
  C being next for you in your research.
• 1:14:04
  And I noticed, you know, poking through the tremendous list of papers
• 1:14:10
  you've written and been cited in, um, some work around human medicine
• 1:14:16
  with cortisol and the sympathetic nervous system and all that.
• 1:14:19
  And, you know, as, as that relates to your research with the Madigan squeeze
• 1:14:24
  and that, so what do you, what's next?
• 1:14:27
  What's the, what's the next thing to put your name on and, you
• 1:14:31
  know?
• 1:14:31
  Well, I, you know, uh, my daughter won me remind me telling, but she,
• 1:14:37
  you know, uh, it's a genetic thing.
• 1:14:39
  She developed postural orthostatic tachycardia or pots in, uh, it's a.
• 1:14:46
  you know, a postviral thing, and then your heart rate goes up.
• 1:14:49
  You don't circulate your blood the way you did your blood.
• 1:14:52
  Your body feels like you're, what we call hypovolemia.
• 1:14:54
  Like you dumped a liter or two of blood out on the sidewalk, so you're weak.
• 1:14:59
  You can't put your hands over your head.
• 1:15:01
  The shampoo, you do all this stuff.
• 1:15:03
  So, uh, I didn't have a lot of things for that.
• 1:15:06
  It's a, it's a long story, but I ended up, she was getting prescribed
• 1:15:10
  IV fluids periodically and seeing a good neurologist, cardiologist.
• 1:15:14
  So I, I saw this machine, this is called external counterpulsation.
• 1:15:19
  Uh, and uh, it's a deal that squeezes your legs, uh, uh, and a synchrony, uh,
• 1:15:25
  with it cuz the EKGs being recorded.
• 1:15:28
  So I went with her to her cardiology appointment and of course the guy
• 1:15:31
  sees me sitting there and he, when we both come in, he goes, uhoh, I got
• 1:15:35
  another one of you, you professor's gonna tell, tell us cardiologists
• 1:15:39
  what to do and, you know, whatnot.
• 1:15:40
  So I asked if we could use his machine that he had up there and
• 1:15:44
  he said, sure, it won't work.
• 1:15:45
  And, and it did.
• 1:15:47
  So I ended up buying the machine and then getting trained on it.
• 1:15:50
  So for six years, actually, I go there once a week and she gets
• 1:15:54
  on this machine and then she can actually function very well.
• 1:15:56
  It resets your autonomic nervous system and there's a lot of
• 1:15:59
  people suffering from that.
• 1:16:01
  and she just started this new medication that slows her heart rate down and
• 1:16:05
  she's not gonna use that machine.
• 1:16:06
  So there's a discovery there with a drug that's designed for something else.
• 1:16:10
  It's, it slows the AV node in the heart, but she's a
• 1:16:13
  completely different person now.
• 1:16:15
  And, uh, so I think trying to share, uh, some stuff about
• 1:16:20
  what we learned on the pots.
• 1:16:21
  We wanna do a broadcast cuz there's a lot of kids that they get told,
• 1:16:24
  it's all in your head, we can't find anything wrong with you.
• 1:16:27
  Uh, you know, you just gotta suck it up.
• 1:16:29
  And, and they actually have a, you know, a problem.
• 1:16:32
  And her mother had it and it was very life-changing for a, for a gal.
• 1:16:37
  Grew up on a cow ranch and then you can't walk to the mailbox without
• 1:16:41
  sitting down sometimes and stuff.
• 1:16:43
  So that's one thing.
• 1:16:44
  And then this thing with the squeeze and the kangaroo mother.
• 1:16:48
  I'm telling you this, uh, that was invented, you know, seen in, not
• 1:16:52
  invented, but it was midwives started saying, don't bring your baby.
• 1:16:57
  This is in Columbia, into the uh, I c U.
• 1:17:00
  They're gonna die there.
• 1:17:01
  Uh, there were a lot of premature births.
• 1:17:03
  Poor, poor prenatal care.
• 1:17:05
  Well, when they started delivering the baby, then sticking him onto
• 1:17:08
  the mother's chest and then tightly swaddling cuz they had to walk around
• 1:17:11
  with 'em, they wore 'em all the time.
• 1:17:13
  Well, that's the same thing that's happening, I think with the squeeze is
• 1:17:17
  it helps and they show that it increases oxygenation and increases survival.
• 1:17:22
  It increases, uh, feeding response, immunization.
• 1:17:27
  And now they have a study that's gone out for 18 years showing
• 1:17:30
  that your neurodevelopment scores.
• 1:17:34
  . So that's one thing.
• 1:17:35
  I think looking at our mechanisms that we've discovered with the neuro
• 1:17:39
  steroids and applying that with the brainwave and other things and
• 1:17:42
  infants, I'd like to, we started that and we had some hiccups with that.
• 1:17:46
  We did that with Stanford.
• 1:17:47
  We had Bill and One Gates Foundation, polymer G Grant.
• 1:17:51
  So I'd like to.
• 1:17:52
  Re you know, uh, revisit that thing, uh, a little bit and, and get some
• 1:17:58
  more awareness because kids that are in NICU and everything and, and the,
• 1:18:01
  and the, and the doctors, and we see this in vet Met, the hardest thing to
• 1:18:06
  get the Madigan squeeze to be used is in one of these critical care units.
• 1:18:09
  Because they can run the IV fluids, they can run the oxygen.
• 1:18:13
  That's what they do.
• 1:18:14
  They got the resident training, man.
• 1:18:15
  That's the kind of cases they live and live for.
• 1:18:18
  Well, if you don't integrate that particular procedure, you don't change
• 1:18:23
  some of the neuro steroids, which can help you and maybe the animal.
• 1:18:26
  So the same with the infants getting this, and now a lot of hospitals do it,
• 1:18:30
  but I think if you had a marker and we think we've identified a marker in folds
• 1:18:34
  with actually this serum progesterone level, and if you could get a quick
• 1:18:38
  test for that, and you say, the reason this baby's not ventilating is cuz
• 1:18:42
  it's full of this stuff because it doesn't need to ventilate in the womb.
• 1:18:46
  and now it's out of the womb and it's still got this thing
• 1:18:48
  that's turning this off.
• 1:18:49
  And that's why you gotta use the ventilator.
• 1:18:51
  So use a procedure or start developing, uh, drugs that
• 1:18:55
  reverse these neuro steroids.
• 1:18:58
  And then the last one is that we saw, uh, and I had a get a little video
• 1:19:03
  and the university had me do it.
• 1:19:05
  And uh, and I was talking about these abnormal behavior and people would come up
• 1:19:10
  and tell me about their kids with autism that had diff, you know, difficult verses
• 1:19:14
  or, uh, you know, uh, cesarean sections.
• 1:19:17
  And then the kid developed autism and, and that is a risk factor for autism.
• 1:19:21
  And there is a paper showing in kids 10 and 12 years old in saliva that
• 1:19:26
  they have four of the neuro steroids that are elevated in the dummy fold.
• 1:19:29
  They're actually elevated in these kids in the saliva.
• 1:19:33
  So they may end up actually not fully transitioning consciousness at birth.
• 1:19:37
  And I'm wondering if some subset of kids with autism, that's what's going on.
• 1:19:43
  I was, uh, Laughing during your POTS discussion or Simply because
• 1:19:49
  I'm in the process of diagnosis and treatment for hyper, hyper adrenaline
• 1:19:57
  pots, and it is, it's a mind trip.
• 1:20:01
  Yeah, for sure.
• 1:20:02
  And realizing what an impact it has on your life if your heart rate just
• 1:20:08
  goes bonkers was really, uh, yeah.
• 1:20:11
  Well, the reason it, it goes bonkers is because your sympathetic nervous
• 1:20:15
  system is you, you're like a, you know, a, a small pump on a huge
• 1:20:19
  pipe, and those pipes are open.
• 1:20:22
  . And when you, when that happens, and this colon, the drug is called chlor.
• 1:20:29
  And uh, that's a brand for it.
• 1:20:31
  And uh, it's working on another mechanism that is fundamental to this pots thing.
• 1:20:37
  And all pots in my, when I've seen this and Reddit, that, that the
• 1:20:42
  reason you're reason your heart rate goes up is because it's hyper auric.
• 1:20:45
  Yeah.
• 1:20:46
  A adrenaline's keeping you alive, you know, because, and then it's screwing with
• 1:20:50
  your brain and your fight and flight or flight system shutting off the perfusion
• 1:20:54
  to your gut and doing all these things.
• 1:20:56
  So this, this medication, uh, could be very, very useful
• 1:21:01
  and it was very hard to get.
• 1:21:04
  And there's a subset, there's a, a paper on, uh, 26 case, uh, case
• 1:21:08
  with pots treated with this, uh, uh, uh, with this medication.
• 1:21:13
  And, uh, it's working on a, on a channel that's screwed up.
• 1:21:17
  And, uh, women have it more than men.
• 1:21:21
  It's postviral a lot of times.
• 1:21:23
  And then it shuts off the normal regulation of your
• 1:21:25
  autonomic nervous system.
• 1:21:27
  So when you stand up, you're like a column of water rather
• 1:21:30
  than everything integrating.
• 1:21:32
  And, uh, and then if it, your blood pressure starts go low, uh,
• 1:21:36
  adrenaline's gonna keep you up, keep you, you know, for going.
• 1:21:39
  So that means your heart rate goes through the roof.
• 1:21:42
  My daughters would go up to 140, 160 standing up, you know,
• 1:21:45
  and now it doesn't happen.
• 1:21:48
  She's out moving hay and doing things.
• 1:21:50
  You know, this week, this is one week on this thing.
• 1:21:53
  And, uh, it was a massive thing to get through there in tracks
• 1:21:57
  is, is a small trial and get the insurance, but that's a breakthrough.
• 1:22:01
  Uh, very exciting to see somebody's life return.
• 1:22:04
  Well, and it's, it's good to see.
• 1:22:07
  Getting past this, you know?
• 1:22:09
  Well, it's all in your head.
• 1:22:10
  Well, of course, anything that's ruled by hormones is in your head.
• 1:22:14
  That's, you know, I think a lot of, a lot of clinicians have a really
• 1:22:20
  hard time with anything that they can't actually, you know, poke at.
• 1:22:23
  And so if they don't have a good way to test for it, it's just not a thing.
• 1:22:29
  Yep.
• 1:22:29
  And it's, yep.
• 1:22:30
  I think we're just starting to see some really exciting research.
• 1:22:34
  Hormones, the new auto automo, autonomic nervous system and all of that.
• 1:22:37
  So it's, it's interesting to see where it's gonna go.
• 1:22:41
  Yeah.
• 1:22:42
  Yeah.
• 1:22:42
  It, I don't think there's a more complicated system.
• 1:22:45
  I mean, it's easier to go to the moon and back than figure out how your
• 1:22:49
  autonomic nervous system integrates.
• 1:22:51
  Every movement, you see all these computers that do to get a guy's
• 1:22:54
  arm to move this way and that way well try standing up, walking
• 1:22:57
  around, moving, running your heart, running your gut, you know, hello.
• 1:23:01
  You know, uh, this is complex stuff and if you're lucky enough
• 1:23:04
  to target that one, and a lot of things are, are, you know, channels.
• 1:23:08
  That's how this squeeze works.
• 1:23:11
  It actually opens up the chloride channel, we think, in the GA receptor,
• 1:23:14
  which is the one that, that, uh, Valium and barbiturates work on.
• 1:23:18
  So when you put that thing.
• 1:23:20
  it opens up this gated movement, just like throwing a switch and they go to sleep.
• 1:23:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:23:25
  . And then when you remove it, the gate closes and the ions readjust and
• 1:23:30
  you wake up and it's instantaneous.
• 1:23:32
  So that's all gated movement of ions.
• 1:23:35
  And this new drug works on this one channel for moving these
• 1:23:38
  irons around, but it's fixing the peripheral circulation as well.
• 1:23:41
  So it's, uh, uh, very excited about that.
• 1:23:47
  All right.
• 1:23:47
  So our last real question here, I guess we ask all of our guests, if you were
• 1:23:51
  going to dominate a category at the county fair, and it can be a real one or you
• 1:23:55
  can make up one to, you know, make sure that you win, what category would it be?
• 1:24:03
  Oh, I saw that question on there and, uh, I, I was, uh, I, it
• 1:24:08
  didn't come to me right away.
• 1:24:10
  Uh, uh, , I don't, I don't know.
• 1:24:16
  I would, I would probably, uh, have something for kids to learn about
• 1:24:23
  veterinary medicine, and I wouldn't care whether I won some award, but
• 1:24:28
  talk to kids that are thinking about it, but don't feel they could do it.
• 1:24:35
  I like
• 1:24:35
  that they can always become recreational veterinarians, like
• 1:24:40
  the rest of us livestock farmers.
• 1:24:42
  That's how I like to think.
• 1:24:43
  Yeah.
• 1:24:43
  But you can also tell 'em, you know, I struggled with this.
• 1:24:47
  So here's the things you can do is, number one, don't give up and then,
• 1:24:52
  you know, learn how to study, learn how to do a few things and, uh, you
• 1:24:57
  know, you can reach your dreams.
• 1:24:59
  Did you ever consider being a small animal vet or was that never on the table?
• 1:25:03
  Yeah, I actually, when I, uh, graduated, I moved to Ukiah and,
• 1:25:10
  uh, the only, the guy that hired me did nothing but small animal.
• 1:25:14
  And I, I'd done the, uh, The dude, ranch, children's camp stuff and then stayed
• 1:25:20
  in touch with the owners of that place.
• 1:25:22
  We had 60 horses there and I'd take care of 'em in the
• 1:25:24
  winter and I knew those people.
• 1:25:26
  So I wanted to go back to Mendocino County where I spent all my time.
• 1:25:29
  It was very rural, so I, I saw small animals there and, uh,
• 1:25:34
  it was really a lot of fun.
• 1:25:36
  There was no referral clinic, so you, you man, you took care of everything and you
• 1:25:40
  could pin femurs and, and you get help cuz this guy had been doing stuff a lot,
• 1:25:45
  so, you know, you're on emergency duty and hit by cars and things like that.
• 1:25:51
  And, uh, so it, it was a lot of fun actually, uh, doing that.
• 1:25:54
  And then I started building up enough, uh, you know, large animals,
• 1:25:59
  you know, sheep, cattle, goats, a lot of, lot of horses stuff.
• 1:26:02
  And then the, uh, I bill to put a barn behind the clinic and, and then,
• 1:26:06
  uh, sold that when I got, Job offer over there, but I, I really enjoyed
• 1:26:11
  the, uh, small animal stuff too.
• 1:26:12
  And, uh, you, you never know what your comes through the door there.
• 1:26:16
  And, uh, so it was, it was exciting and fun.
• 1:26:18
  I will, we're gonna ahead go ahead and move into our cussing,
• 1:26:21
  cussing and discussing segment.
• 1:26:23
  So this is kind of a free for all of whatever we wanna talk
• 1:26:26
  about on any given episode.
• 1:26:27
  And listeners can enter there cussing and discussing entries.
• 1:26:31
  If you go to the show notes, you'll find either our speak pipe or you
• 1:26:34
  can leave us a voice memo or an email address and we'll read it out for you.
• 1:26:39
  Katie, what are you cussing and discussing this week?
• 1:26:42
  So, you know, I have a, a newly six year old child and I swear to God that
• 1:26:49
  kid brings home an entire rema paper from school every day, which is its own
• 1:26:55
  thing, but she rolls them up sheet by.
• 1:27:00
  she can't, I mean, she has a folder, she has a backpack, but instead
• 1:27:04
  she rolls them up and then she folds them in half and puts them in
• 1:27:08
  the front pocket of her backpack.
• 1:27:10
  And when that pocket is literally jammed full, then she starts putting them in
• 1:27:15
  the main pocket of her backpack, but she still rolls them into a tube and folds
• 1:27:20
  them, and then puts them in the pocket.
• 1:27:22
  So it's like a bunch of tiny
• 1:27:24
  diplomas.
• 1:27:25
  Yeah, kind of.
• 1:27:26
  But it'll be kind, you know, 25 drawings and then that one paper that needs a
• 1:27:32
  signature, or she's gonna get kicked outta kindergarten, and that's just gonna be
• 1:27:35
  the end of academic career right there.
• 1:27:37
  I, I don't know.
• 1:27:39
  It's, and I asked her why she did it, and she looked at me
• 1:27:43
  like, what else would I do?
• 1:27:46
  And I just, okay.
• 1:27:49
  Like I, I don't want to be that mom who's like, you know, crushing her little tiny
• 1:27:54
  baby spirit, but also, What the hell?
• 1:27:59
  Hey children.
• 1:28:00
  Yeah.
• 1:28:01
  And are they all vitally important to her?
• 1:28:03
  Do you have to keep everything or you Uh, yes.
• 1:28:05
  Sneak the art there.
• 1:28:06
  The back door.
• 1:28:07
  Oh yes.
• 1:28:07
  Yeah.
• 1:28:08
  Very important.
• 1:28:08
  Yes.
• 1:28:09
  We lost a pompom off one the other day and the cat took it and it was, it was bad.
• 1:28:15
  . Uh, it was a crisis.
• 1:28:16
  Yeah.
• 1:28:18
  Alright.
• 1:28:18
  So my cussing and discussing for this week is the fact that the more people
• 1:28:23
  we talk to, and I realize this after our mind blowing episode today, the
• 1:28:28
  more people we talk to, the more I realize how much I don't know, which
• 1:28:32
  is fantastic because there's so much in the world to understand, but also
• 1:28:35
  frustrating because it's all out there and I can't get it all in my
• 1:28:39
  brain and I don't know so much stuff.
• 1:28:41
  So it's probably a ha ha, what is it?
• 1:28:45
  Glass half empty, half full situation where depending on the day, it's both
• 1:28:49
  exciting or frustrating that there's so much information out there that
• 1:28:53
  you just can't even process it all.
• 1:28:57
  . That's a good
• 1:28:57
  one.
• 1:28:57
  Arlene.
• 1:29:00
  John, do you have anything to share with us?
• 1:29:01
  Anything bugging you these days or are we, uh, we're gonna sign off for this week?
• 1:29:07
  Uh, no, I don't think so.
• 1:29:09
  I think, uh, uh, you know, the more, uh, you get towards the PM of life, I think
• 1:29:18
  you realize you don't know all this stuff.
• 1:29:20
  You don't know.
• 1:29:21
  I mean, Jesus.
• 1:29:23
  And, uh, and, and things are often a little more complicated, you know,
• 1:29:27
  than, than you think, but that doesn't prevent, you know, some things from
• 1:29:31
  happening that are good and then being able to completely, uh, you
• 1:29:36
  know, assimilate or understand that, you know, sometimes it takes a while.
• 1:29:39
  But, uh, no, I think, and then ideas, new ideas take a long time to get
• 1:29:45
  into, uh, . In fact, you know, uh, the, the way that these, I'm gonna
• 1:29:50
  try to do a survey to find out how many animals around the world.
• 1:29:54
  I know there's a lot of different countries doing it.
• 1:29:56
  I got one from Iran the other day.
• 1:29:58
  They're doing the squeeze thing.
• 1:29:59
  So this, the fact that it hits social media, they're not getting, the
• 1:30:04
  owners of the animals are not getting educated on this from veterinarians.
• 1:30:08
  They're actually a veterinarian that be me, put something on the
• 1:30:11
  internet that had some science bases to it and then shared it.
• 1:30:15
  And that's the new way that a lot of things are being learned.
• 1:30:20
  So that's a, and and it used to be you, your vet would tell you
• 1:30:23
  this or tell you that it's, it's, it's going too fast for that.
• 1:30:28
  And in fact, it's better because, uh, there's a broader audience, especially
• 1:30:32
  if it's something you can do yourself to help a particular situation.
• 1:30:38
  So I think that's the value of the, uh, internet, social media, if it's used.
• 1:30:44
  in a positive way.
• 1:30:45
  It can be problem solving.
• 1:30:46
  Solving.
• 1:30:47
  Yeah.
• 1:30:47
  That's a point.
• 1:30:48
  So that's all I'd say is that, uh,
• 1:30:49
  yeah, cuz like you said, it's, it's something that you can do, that you
• 1:30:53
  can fix for the, for the person who is looking at an animal and thinking,
• 1:30:56
  well, it's probably going to die.
• 1:30:59
  You know, this is, this is something that you can try and you don't, if
• 1:31:02
  you can't afford for the vet to come or you don't, don't feel like there,
• 1:31:06
  it's gonna be any help, then yeah.
• 1:31:08
  You've, you've got something at your disposal that you can at least give it a
• 1:31:11
  shot, right?
• 1:31:14
  Yeah.
• 1:31:14
  Yeah.
• 1:31:15
  Yeah.
• 1:31:15
  And I think if we could get more of that, you know, and then make
• 1:31:20
  that accessible to the subgroups or whatever, that would utilize it, uh,
• 1:31:25
  that would be a positive, uh, thing.
• 1:31:29
  It's a, it's a sort of a, uh, telemedicine without the doctor
• 1:31:35
  Yeah, that's great.
• 1:31:35
  But
• 1:31:36
  it's telling you something to do.
• 1:31:39
  Yeah.
• 1:31:39
  Yeah, we don't always wanna search our own symptoms up on the internet.
• 1:31:42
  But yeah, if there , there's, there's ways to, there's to get help out
• 1:31:46
  there if you, you know where to look and what's what's safe to try.
• 1:31:50
  So Katie and I wanna thank you so much for joining us here today, and if
• 1:31:54
  people want to find out more about you and your work, where should they find
• 1:31:58
  you online?
• 1:32:01
  Well, I don't know.
• 1:32:02
  I don't have my own website.
• 1:32:04
  I have, uh, you know, uh, the manual of Equine neonatal Medicine.
• 1:32:09
  I guess we have a website there.
• 1:32:10
  And then the Equine and Comparative Neurology Group, I'm still in that
• 1:32:14
  uc Davis, uh, in, uh, you know, my emails, j Madigan uc, davis do edu if
• 1:32:22
  somebody has some questions or wants, uh, something, you know, sent that way.
• 1:32:26
  And my company that, uh, our little company, it's an LLC so
• 1:32:29
  that we can pay our taxes and do everything is loops rescue.com.
• 1:32:34
  And you could send a message, uh, to me there and.
• 1:32:38
  , whatnot.
• 1:32:38
  So that, that might be one way of doing it.
• 1:32:41
  Yeah,
• 1:32:42
  that's perfect.
• 1:32:42
  Thank you so much
• 1:32:43
  for joining.
• 1:32:44
  Yeah.
• 1:32:44
  Well it's been a pleasure and uh, nice meeting you.
• 1:32:47
  And
• 1:32:47
  we won't start lambing for a few more weeks, but once we do, I'll
• 1:32:50
  get some videos cuz I'm sure we'll have at least one lamb.
• 1:32:54
  It'll need squeezed.
• 1:32:55
  And if we don't have any that need it, I'll find one and do it anyway.
• 1:33:00
  Just , because it'll be a hell of finding a calf, so.
• 1:33:04
  That's
• 1:33:05
  right.
• 1:33:06
  Yeah.
• 1:33:06
  All right, well, great, great, uh, visiting with both of you and take care.
• 1:33:10
  Great.
• 1:33:10
  Great.
• 1:33:10
  Thanks John.
• 1:33:11
  Thank you so much.
• 1:33:11
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• 1:33:14
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