Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 144 - Robert Jacks - CEO Sparrow Pharmaceuticals

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Episode 144 - Robert Jacks - CEO Sparrow Pharmaceuticals · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
Welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub and Avetix
0:09
podcast. Today I'm joined by Robert
0:12
Jacks, CEO and President of Spyro Pharmaceuticals, a company
0:16
developing novel medicines for cardio metabolic diseases.
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Robert spent more than 25 years building and leading biotech
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companies, raising over $300 million and guiding multiple
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successful exits along the way. In this conversation, we talk
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about his journey from founder to CEO.
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The story through behind Sparrow, what it takes to stay
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lean and focused, how they raise capital in today's market and
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his view on where the biotech industry is heading next.
0:43
Pleasure to have you Robert. How are you?
0:46
I'm good. Really appreciate you having me
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on. Thank you.
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Now, amazing to have you on honestly.
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So let's just start with you and your journey.
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Like I just said, early 25 years in biotech, multiple companies
0:59
founded, over $300 million raised what what first drew you
1:04
into biotech and then ultimately what what's now LED you towards
1:07
Sparrow? So as you might imagine, I, you
1:09
know, I get the question often, you know, what's the path to
1:13
being a biotech CEO? And my answer is generally, I
1:16
have no idea. But it's, there's, I think
1:19
there's no one path. And I certainly didn't plan it
1:21
from the beginning. I'm actually an engineer by
1:23
training. I'm not a scientist, I'm not a
1:25
clinician. And I was in engineering
1:28
construction as a previous career.
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And generally I was looking for something that was very
1:34
different than what I was in really.
1:37
And I was looking for an industry that I thought was
1:39
driven by innovation that I thought was really relevant,
1:42
that that was going to have an impact in the future and where
1:46
education, new ideas were welcome, which I felt was
1:50
different than where I was. So I went to Business School and
1:53
decided to go to work for Pfizer in pharmaceuticals.
1:57
Amazing. Then it all LED from there,
1:58
right? Yeah.
2:00
So I mean, Pfizer was a fantastic place to start in this
2:04
industry. Amazing people, obviously a lot
2:09
of experts that know what they're doing.
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I was there for about 8 years and decided I'd, I'd had enough
2:16
of the, of the big, big companies and decided to go from
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some of the biggest of the big, some of the smallest of the
2:23
small and started working with small privately funded biotech
2:27
companies. And the, when I did at Pfizer, I
2:32
think really helped draw me into the industry and, and somewhat
2:35
formed my path at Pfizer. I started in finance, but then I
2:38
worked in new product development, which is really
2:42
working with products in mid stage clinical development to
2:45
help design the, the development plan to really generate the
2:48
value and show the value and the differentiation of those of
2:51
those products through the development plan.
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And then I last Bishop with Pfizer was doing business
2:56
development in licensing M&A. So when I start to work for
3:00
biotech, the first thing I did was start to work in sell side
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business development, help companies try and find
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partnerships or sell themselves. But then when you work for a
3:09
small company, you very quickly can branch in other areas.
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And drawing on some of my experience in product
3:16
development to commercial strategy, I started working with
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companies generally in that space and kind of mid stage
3:22
clinical development helping them to develop those assets and
3:25
generate those and generate the value.
3:27
Amazing. How did you then come to Sparrow
3:32
or what inspired you to join Sparrow?
3:35
So I've worked for a number of companies as I said that to Bear
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Therapeutics, ECT, Biotech, some others and I Co founded a
3:43
company called Symbiomics Therapeutics and then after that
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I run a company called Indelo Therapeutics.
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So I had experience with a lot of kind of mid stage clinical
3:54
development stage budget companies.
3:56
And what I found I was drawn to is not so much the earliest
4:00
stage science where it's, it's really just a new concept and
4:06
trying to to find a product and not so much either the
4:09
commercialization stage growing revenues.
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That's not where my interest or expertise lie.
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It's really in that mid stage clinical development where
4:16
you're, you can really show the value of the product by changing
4:20
the development plan. And so that's kind of where I've
4:22
always gravitated towards. In addition, I, I, I like
4:26
products that I feel like are somewhat de risked.
4:29
I'd rather take kind of risk on, on differentiation of profile
4:33
than really kind of early stage risk.
4:36
There's, there's compounds can fail for so many reasons in this
4:38
industry. And so that's the type of
4:41
company that that I I tend to be attracted to.
4:44
And so after I left my last company, I was approached by
4:49
some investors who are considering investing in Sparrow
4:51
Pharmaceuticals and asked me if I take a look at the company.
4:55
As we'll talk about, we have an asset that is very de risked.
4:59
It's in Phase 2 development. It has the potential to have a
5:03
very large impact I think in in helping patients.
5:07
And so for me, it was kind of a perfect fit.
5:09
Amazing. Yeah.
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And for those who might not know Sparrow, can you just give us a
5:15
quick story who you are, what you're building and what what's
5:19
the problem you're trying to solve?
5:21
You know Sparrow it's been around since actually was formed
5:24
in 2013 by our founder and he licensed an asset in 2018 from a
5:30
large pharma company. As I mentioned, we have an asset
5:32
that's been previously de risked and the history of the mechanism
5:35
has has interesting story. I feel as though at the moment
5:39
Sparrow is really coming full circle to some of the original
5:43
promise of the mechanism of our drug and really is it an
5:46
intersection of some interesting data we've generated and
5:49
developments in the market? I think they're they're
5:51
highlighting a really exciting opportunity for us.
5:54
So what's that all mean? So our drug is called, it's an
5:57
HSD one inhibitor, but it's a, it's a mechanism that works on
6:00
regulation of intracellular levels of cortisol and other
6:02
group corticoids. And these drugs were originally
6:04
developed as intending to be drugs for metabolic diseases
6:07
like diabetes because glucorticoids and cortisol are
6:11
involved in a lot of metabolic pathways that regulate glucose
6:14
and the like. And so the compounds, there were
6:16
a number of them went to the clinic and they had some
6:19
efficacy and they were shown to be safe and active.
6:21
They weren't significantly differentiated from what was
6:24
available in the marketplace. And so even though the compounds
6:27
had a lot of promise and there were no significant big red
6:30
flags, generally they were shelled for commercial reasons.
6:33
And so Sparrow was really founded around the idea that
6:35
this mechanism had a lot of promise and you could just find
6:38
the right patient population 1 where the condition is really
6:41
significantly impacted, driven by excess levels of cortisol for
6:44
instance, that you could really have something.
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And so one of the first things Sparrow did was conduct a trial
6:51
in inductions Cushing's syndrome, which is a rare
6:53
disease of patients who have very severely elevated levels of
6:56
cortisol. And so that was something we did
6:59
in 2021 to 2024, ran phase two trial and in this rare disease
7:05
and saw some I think really remarkable small numbers of
7:09
patients, but some really transformative activity in
7:12
patients who were very severely impacted by their disease.
7:15
One example of a woman who's a nurse, but she had to stop
7:19
working. She could barely stand up and
7:20
get out of a chair and severe difficult to treat diabetes,
7:24
hypertension. After being on our drug, she's
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back to hiking and jogging and says she's back to normal.
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She stopped taking all of her diabetes medications.
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I think just seeing kind of a remarkable transformation of an
7:34
individual who was debilitated by their disease was incredibly
7:38
inspiring. So those data, we actually
7:41
presented some of those data this past summer.
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But at the same time, there was other work going on in the field
7:46
which was really able to validate that there's a lot of
7:49
people out there with difficult to treat metabolic disease like
7:52
diabetes, where their disease is actually being driven by
7:55
undiagnosed underlying elevated cortisol.
7:58
And so that's something that has really been developing over and
8:01
over years, maybe a couple of decades, but there's some data
8:04
published last year. It really validated how to
8:05
identify these patients and that you can really affect their
8:08
disease if you have an agent that's targeting the action of
8:11
cortisol. Well, as I've described, we have
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an agent we had just shown I think that our agent can be very
8:16
effective and at least in you know small numbers of clinical
8:19
trial in patients with disease driven by LA cortisol.
8:22
So that's really come together. Now our focus is subsuming some
8:26
of those other populations into a broader opportunity of people
8:30
with treatment resistant cardio metabolic disease starting with
8:34
treatment resistant type 2 diabetes that's really being
8:36
driven by an underlying diagnosed high levels of
8:39
cortisol. And so somewhat surprisingly
8:41
people that's actually a really large population.
8:44
There could be could be several million people in the United
8:46
States alone who have disease that is treatment resistant,
8:50
difficult to treat and they don't know that it's because
8:52
they have elevated high levels of cortisol and we think we have
8:54
an agent that to make a huge impact I.
8:56
Think that's amazing. I mean that that's part of the
8:59
reason I was really excited to get you on Robert like your your
9:01
story, the impact you guys are having, the work you're doing,
9:05
you know, really cool. I think what's also interesting
9:08
about Spyro is is your single asset as well, which also brings
9:13
focus, but also what brings focus without all those big
9:17
decisions. How do you think about strategy
9:20
and you've talked about de risking, but how do you think
9:22
about the strategy and the risk in this kind of cell?
9:27
It's a perennial issue that I've had to deal with working with
9:30
companies who are largely built around products and assets
9:34
rather than kind of technology platforms generating a lot of
9:36
new candidates. So there's always a trade off.
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I mean, I think that the value of our company is going to be
9:41
driven by our lead product flip you Triven.
9:44
And we want our team focused on that going our resources focused
9:47
on that. But the same time, if you think
9:49
about certain financing pathways and future for the company could
9:53
be, it could be helpful to have additional programs, additional
9:56
assets to diversify risks to provide more regular updates on
10:01
on data releases. And so that's something that I
10:04
think I've always sought to balance in a company.
10:07
One way to manage that. If you have a drug which was
10:10
like ours, which is significantly de risked, you're
10:12
not as worried about some kind of small probability event of
10:17
some safety problem killing the the product is to look at
10:20
potentially building a pipeline and a pill as they call it.
10:22
In other words, So taking our asset, what can we do do beyond
10:27
our initial focus today, which is treatments and diabetes
10:30
elevated cortisol. Well, a lot of cardio metabolic
10:33
morbidities can be driven by elevated cortisol.
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I mentioned people within dodges Cushing's syndrome, the rare
10:38
disease, a very elevated cortisol.
10:40
They not only have poor trouble controlling blood glucose, they
10:44
also generally have trouble controlling blood pressure.
10:46
They generally have trouble controlling their weight.
10:48
They generally have trouble controlling their their blood
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lipids. They have sleep, mood, memory
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problems. There's a lot of sequelae of
10:57
underlying metabolic dysfunction driven by high levels of
10:59
cortisol. So we're now starting to think
11:01
about where can we go next? Is there is there maybe a
11:04
population of difficult to treat hypertension where they don't
11:08
know again that they're they're having trouble controlling their
11:11
disease because of elevated cortisol on and on down the
11:14
line. So I think we're trying to to
11:16
think about how to both build a pipeline traditional programs
11:20
and keep our our focus on creating value and we think is
11:24
really exciting lead asset. That makes sense that that
11:27
you've also kept the team really intentionally lean as well.
11:31
Why is that also being an important and what are the
11:35
advantages of of operating that way?
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I have done that and I've traditionally done that.
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I think for a couple of reasons. Again, I think it's better to
11:43
keep our resources focused on adding value to our asset.
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We don't need a cleaning office building and and the like.
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But it's also I think allows you when if you end up in difficult
11:54
times, if you end up in lean times, you know, the markets
11:56
have been difficult the last couple of years.
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We were out raising money. You were able to dial that back
12:01
without having to actually let you know employees go, which is
12:04
really, really difficult. So last year as we were going
12:07
through fundraising, there was a period of time where we did have
12:10
to significantly reduced our spend to extend our runway.
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And fortunately we were able to do that without laying off any
12:16
employees, which was really, really exciting.
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So we could keep that talent, that core talent around the
12:20
table and we're now able to leverage into our kind of new
12:24
focused opportunity. Does that also change the kind
12:28
of personalities that you have to hire into Sparrow, if you're
12:32
thinking that way? Yeah, absolutely.
12:34
That's a really good point. What I tell people, probably
12:37
tired of hearing it, but what I tell people when I interviewed
12:40
hire them is I don't hire people to come in and do what I ask
12:43
them to do. I'd hire for you to come in and
12:46
tell me what to do. And if you need to be someone
12:48
who had a point in your career where you know what needs to be
12:52
done, you can see what needs to be done.
12:53
You can come in and help shape this company and and help drive
12:56
us in the right direction. You also need people who are
13:00
really doers and not just people who want to direct, you know,
13:04
from the most senior person in the company down the most senior
13:06
person in the company. People roll up their sleeves, do
13:09
whatever needs to be done. One of, I remember one of our
13:11
early team meetings, there was a, there was a discussion going
13:14
on. And so you know, the lunch, I
13:17
think it arrived in the lobby. So I went out and I went down
13:19
and grabbed the lunch and I set up the lunch and I was putting
13:21
on someone laughs and why is the CEO, you know, setting the table
13:24
and, and putting out the lunch? I said, I don't know that that's
13:27
what needed to be done. You guys were busy.
13:28
So I just think that's, you know, how, how you have to
13:31
operate in a, in a company like this.
13:33
Yeah, I think that's pretty universal as well.
13:35
I don't think that that boils down just to to biotech, but I
13:38
think leading by example like that in in every kind of
13:41
companies just like super important.
13:45
I mean, my experience is, you know, largely in biotech, but
13:48
certainly in a small environment like ours.
13:51
You know, we only have 10 employees, but a previous
13:54
company I worked for, we actually took a drug all the way
13:56
from preclinical stage all the way through clinical
13:59
development. I actually got an approved NDA
14:02
from the FDA. I think we peaked around 12
14:04
employees as a company. So yeah, so we just have senior
14:09
people who know what they're doing, obviously have excellent
14:10
partners, excellent consultants, excellent contractors.
14:14
You know, I think that's similarly, we've always, we
14:16
operate quite virtually, so we hire talent wherever they are,
14:20
people to all be in the same location.
14:22
But that also means that people have to be able to operate
14:25
really independently because they get in the morning, they go
14:27
to their Home Office or whatever their office is.
14:29
They have to, they have to know what needs to be done and be
14:31
getting it done. Yeah, really.
14:33
By themselves. Yeah.
14:34
How do you check people on that? Just results driven or?
14:40
We are, that's exactly right. We're 100% results driven.
14:44
You know, I, I, we don't, you know, I don't obviously don't
14:48
have like time clocks, but we don't have, you know,
14:50
requirement to be in the office to certain days or certain
14:52
hours. Things I really like about a
14:55
small company is there's no place to hide when you work at a
14:58
big company, as I mentioned, lots of terrific people.
15:00
But sometimes you find that there are people maybe that
15:03
spend most of their time in meetings and you're not sure
15:05
exactly, you know, at the end of the day, what they've produced
15:07
themselves, that that doesn't fly in a company like Sparrow.
15:10
It becomes apparent very, very quickly if you're not producing
15:14
and you're not getting things done, unfortunately had to, you
15:17
know, part ways with with some people because it's, you just
15:20
can't afford to be carrying people who aren't really
15:23
producing. And so, yeah, we, we, it's, it's
15:26
purely results driven. I joke, you know, I don't mind.
15:29
I don't care if you're on the beach taking, you know the call,
15:32
the next call when my senior people was on the beach taking
15:35
the call. So it took me literally, but
15:37
that's OK because it really is about achieving our objectives
15:42
really on a multi year frame, really with the financing cycle
15:46
frame of achieving our objectives with the capital we
15:49
have. You, you mentioned earlier as
15:52
well, and it's no secret that that the market's been pretty
15:54
tough lately, but you, you've just had a pretty successful
15:57
fundraise. How did you approach raising
16:00
that capital and getting investors behind behind the
16:03
vision? Yeah.
16:04
I think, you know, I like to say sometimes you have to be a
16:07
little lucky and sometimes you have to be a little good.
16:09
And I think we're, you know, we've been a little of both.
16:10
And I talked about some of the really exciting data we
16:13
generated in a not just Christian syndrome, we'd also
16:16
generate some data in combination with steroid
16:18
medicines, which act very similarly to to to cortisol.
16:21
Then we were out last year talking to investors about
16:23
continuing those programs. And then I mentioned to you
16:26
another company Corecept announced some data really
16:29
highlighting this very exciting opportunity that our drug seemed
16:32
perfect for. And so we pivoted and very
16:35
quickly found some really, really excellent investors.
16:38
We're very excited about the syndicate we have to that really
16:42
shot saw that vision and we're able to join.
16:43
And I think I think the particular characteristics of
16:46
the of of our company that appeal to them.
16:49
I mentioned later stage more de risked.
16:51
I think, you know, in more risk off environments, I think
16:55
investors are looking more for de risk validated compounds,
16:59
validated mechanisms, you know, Phase 2 proof of concept data,
17:03
if you can get it. And then you know, from
17:05
manufacturing perspective, from a non clinical perspective,
17:09
compounds that have really, you know, been de risked.
17:11
So a lot of those kind of things that can trip up a
17:13
pharmaceutical program may be already been dealt with.
17:17
And so I think in an environment where investors are looking to
17:20
narrow their focus take make fewer bets that they're looking
17:24
for things that are a little less risky and we we seem to fit
17:27
that bill. So I think that worked out
17:28
really well, kind of a de risk asset, but also a really big
17:31
potential, a market opportunity, not just a non just kind of a
17:35
niche opportunity, but a really big opportunity I think was
17:38
attractive. I like the little story about
17:40
corsets data and then pivoting. You make it sound like it was a
17:44
was a simple decision to do that.
17:47
Is is was that the case or? It it, you know, it looks like
17:51
it in hindsight, it looks like it makes all kinds of sense when
17:55
you're going through it. It does take some mental
17:57
gymnastics because you've gotten yourself so focused on telling
18:01
your story on on selling your story and why the plan you're
18:06
presenting is the right plan. And then to be able to say,
18:10
actually, you know, we want, we want to do something a little
18:13
different. It takes, I think it takes more
18:15
of a mental shift on the on the company side than it does on the
18:17
investor side, who will say, OK, that, you know, sounds
18:19
interesting and they're used to looking at different stores.
18:22
But it does take a little bit of shifting on the company side to
18:25
kind of get yourself out of that all in on one story and, and,
18:30
and shift to another one. But this, you know, this was
18:32
this is I think a nice opportunity because it doesn't,
18:35
we're not abandoning. I think what we were doing
18:36
before so far as I talked about this, you know, rare disease,
18:40
we've gotten to be very close with the community.
18:42
There's a strong advocacy organization and we've gotten to
18:45
know some of the patients. And I think we really had would
18:49
have been very, very difficult. We had no intention of
18:51
abandoning that community for whom, you know, this new therapy
18:54
could be really life changing for them as well.
18:56
And fortunately, what we're able to do is really subsume that
18:58
into, you know, this opportunity that if you have this rare
19:01
disease, you likely have difficult to treat types of
19:04
diabetes. You're welcome in our in our
19:06
program as well, where some of the other programs have excluded
19:09
some of those more severe rare disease patients.
19:12
So I think that made it easier for us to feel like we're
19:14
expanding the tent and we're not abandoning some of the things we
19:17
were doing before. That makes sense.
19:19
It was there an element of getting buy in across the whole
19:22
company as well as far like yes, this is the right strategic
19:27
decision. Yes, I mean, again, you know,
19:30
people are so, so bought into what they're doing, but a low
19:35
bank account is a motivating, it's probably a motivating
19:38
factor as well. And so when you're, you know,
19:41
you're you're having to ramp down your spend, you're looking
19:45
at a limited runway, you're trying to raise money and you
19:48
say this is what this is what people want to invest in.
19:52
Then it's pretty quickly you get the team around saying, OK, you
19:55
know, we can see this really exciting opportunity.
19:56
And that's a little different than what we thought we were
19:59
going to do. But you know, we're excited
20:00
about that, that, that as well. But again, yeah, it does.
20:02
It does take that little bit of a mental shift cause a company
20:05
like Sparrow, I mean, it's not, it's not a job, right?
20:09
It's next to our families. This is, this is our lives.
20:13
And you're so, you're so all in that you feel a very, very
20:17
personal mission with what we're doing.
20:21
And so it does take some mental adjustment to to shift that, but
20:24
I think people were able to see pretty quickly that this this
20:26
could have a major impact. Well, honestly, Congrats on that
20:29
fundraise because it hasn't been easy out there and it's well
20:32
deserved. Thank you.
20:34
Yeah, thank you. I think it has been a tough
20:37
environment. I think maybe it's turning a
20:39
little bit. Fortunately, we're not raising
20:41
money right now. So I'm hearing this more second
20:43
hand. I think, you know, Mark, people
20:45
in the market will always say maybe hopefully the turns right
20:48
around the corner. But in this case, you know, I
20:50
like to say we certainly went through a few tough years
20:53
following a few frothy years. You know, I'd say that the
20:56
bigger the party sometimes the bigger the hangover.
20:57
And there was a lot of froth in the market a few years ago in
21:01
the maybe COVID days. And I think there are a lot of
21:03
companies that raised a lot of money at high valuations, then
21:07
maybe we're not sustainable. And so then a lot of those
21:10
companies were not able to deliver their valuation.
21:13
They weren't able to raise money.
21:14
The valuation is too high. It's very painful then to have
21:16
that adjustment. I think there had to be some
21:19
consolidation. There were a number of companies
21:21
that combined, there were a number of companies liquidated,
21:23
a number of companies that downsized, prioritized their
21:26
pipeline. That took several years and
21:29
along with the markets where interest rates were higher, it
21:33
just was, it was a very difficult environment.
21:35
But I do feel as though maybe a lot of that has now worked its
21:38
way through. Interest rates are starting to
21:41
to come down, which sometimes it's not easy to see how that
21:44
directly impacts, you know, private biotech market, but it
21:46
does based upon the availability of capital.
21:48
And so I feel as though there have been a few IP OS and that,
21:52
you know, that kind of filters down into the private markets as
21:55
well. So I do feel like maybe things
21:56
are starting to turn and next year maybe it'll be a better
21:59
year for biotech. Yeah, that's that.
22:01
I mean, that's amazing to hear. And we talked about how the
22:04
market's been changing a little bit.
22:06
Last time we spoke, we're talking about the there's been
22:09
fewer rounds, but there has been some massive rounds.
22:13
When they do happen, what do you think that says about where the
22:16
industry is heading as well? Yeah.
22:18
I think that's really a flexion of what we were talking about,
22:21
where these investors had money to, to, to invest.
22:26
It's not they hadn't been able to raise funds.
22:28
It's that they were just being very careful about deploying
22:30
them because their current companies needed capital and
22:33
they felt as though with the public markets as they were,
22:37
that maybe it's more difficult to get those exits, it's more
22:40
difficult to raise subsequent rounds.
22:42
And so I think they were being a lot more selective.
22:45
But in doing that, when you're investing in fewer companies,
22:47
maybe later stage companies, more de risked, you end up
22:50
making bigger bets as well, because obviously a company
22:53
that's in Phase 2 might need a lot more capital to run a big
22:57
clinical trial than a company that's, you know, still at the
22:59
non clinical stage. And so I think that the market
23:01
kind of lent itself to bigger bets, bigger investments and
23:05
fewer de risk companies. And unfortunately, we fit that
23:08
bill. Amazing.
23:09
And this is the last question as well, Robert, and it's a
23:13
question I ask each of my guests.
23:16
If you could have dinner with any scientist or innovator, past
23:20
or present, who would it be and why?
23:22
Oh, boy. So yeah, I, I hope I don't get
23:28
myself in a little bit of trouble here.
23:30
I'm, I'm going to say I, I, I would love to, I'd love to have
23:33
a conversation with Elon Musk. And I know he's a little
23:35
controversial today and nothing to do with his current, you
23:37
know, recent political engagement, But really, because
23:41
a couple of weeks, first of all, I think he's one of the most
23:43
fascinating people, you know, of our time, the things that he's
23:46
done. But he's not just, he's not just
23:50
a visionary, he's also a doer. And so to see that he has ideas,
23:55
but then is able to actually make them happen.
23:57
The things, you know, he, he somehow decided to start a
24:00
rocket company And, and I can't imagine I wouldn't notice where
24:03
to start, you know, had a rack company or some of the things
24:05
he's doing with the boring company.
24:07
And so I'd love to have a conversation with him.
24:10
You know, he says some things that scare me.
24:11
So I'd love to understand them better because I think he, he,
24:14
he probably has reasons what he's saying when he talks about,
24:16
you know, where our society is going, where humanity is going.
24:19
And, but I think he's a fascinating individual and I
24:22
think it'd be, I'd love to love to have a conversation with him.
24:25
I yeah, it's controversial. He is.
24:28
We don't have to band in the, the political side of what's
24:31
happening with him at the moment.
24:32
But I would completely agree. I think he's a fascinating guy.
24:35
So much to learn from him. And like what you were saying
24:39
earlier about, you know, you, you've got to take on multiple
24:42
roles. He's an executor as well, like
24:43
you say. I love that answer.
24:45
Yeah, when that comes up. But absolute pleasure to have
24:49
you on, Robert. Yeah, really thank you for the
24:51
opportunity. I really appreciated the
24:53
platform to talk about, you know, Sparrow, we're just, we're
24:56
really excited what we're doing and we're just starting to try
24:58
and get the message out there. You know, as I said, we think
25:01
we're really at the kind of convergence of having this great
25:04
data with things that evolved in the industry.
25:07
But I don't think some of those developments are really well
25:09
understood widely at the moment and the potential impact that we
25:12
could have with our approach. So you know platforms like yours
25:16
to try and start to get our message out.
25:18
Very exciting and really appreciate it.
25:20
Now, honestly, amazing to have you on.
25:21
I think you you guys are doing some incredible work and it's
25:25
good to to share with the listeners.
25:27
Please everyone like and subscribe to the bio hub and
25:31
honestly thanks again Robert it. Was a pleasure.