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Peace: Conversation (Gift Guide) · Beyond the Sermon

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You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast of First
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Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.
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The end. Really extensive background
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Christmas music to fill in a woman.
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He's already got a book open, which means we're in trouble.
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No, no, no. I mean, I was just looking
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through this as I was starting to think, but I was hoping, I
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was hoping that, you know, after having Carol's cookies and cocoa
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last night, which a couple nights ago now for those
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listening to the podcast, that it would feel more like
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Christmas. This here doesn't feel like
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Christmas to me. I don't know if you're feeling
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that we're feeling in our house though.
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Well, you already had Christmas, so you're.
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We did have our first, we did have our first Christmas with
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our with Meg's side of the family while they were here for
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Thanksgiving. That is true.
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You're already. In the, I would say outside of
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the home, it doesn't feel like Christmas.
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Inside the home since Saturday, whenever we got the tree
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definitely feels like Christmas because that's all Theo wants to
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talk about is the Christmas tree and playing with the train
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underneath. Yeah.
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So it's just like that's our thing right now is Christmas
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tree and and also so many packages are coming in.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. For other people, that is like,
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I'm gay because I'm like normally stuff comes in for
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Rebecca. I'm not usually waiting on
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things to come in for people or for the kids or whatever.
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And so, yeah, the influx of packages and the big tree and
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train set make it feel like Christmas.
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Yeah, well, and, and, and your guys are at such a great age for
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Christmas and all the all the fun that comes with that.
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They, they really are at a good age.
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Our guys are like, like they're they're all in various stages.
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I mean, Eli a little less so, but all in various stages of
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teenage apathy. What I want?
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All right. He's like.
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Next, pulling teeth like, hey, put some things on your wish
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list for grandma and you know, and there's like, all right, do
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we have to? I wish I didn't have to make a
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wish list. Yeah, yeah.
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Why do I have to do that? Oh wow.
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Well, they're just going to get me underwear anyway.
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I mean, they did get some clothes.
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They did get some clothes that were not on their wish list.
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That's just part of it. Same boys.
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Rebecca's determined to do the whole matching pajamas.
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Thing every year, yeah. Last year's fit?
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Just get the newest big size for Theo.
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We still got them. Yeah.
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Oh, no, no. Old Navy had a sail in October
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and we had to get them before everyone got them.
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Yeah, yeah, OK. There were there were six kids
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in matching oh gosh in matching Christmas pyjamas Thanksgiving
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night and then the next morning when they woke up for are our
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first Christmas. Yeah, yeah, no.
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So anyway, in in in an attempt to maybe get me a little more in
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the Christmas mindset, which. Consumerism.
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That's the word I want. That's what you're looking for.
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But yeah, Christmas often includes some gift giving, and I
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wondered if if we could come up with any, any recommendations,
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any gift recommendations for people who might still be trying
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to find something for somebody? Well, before we get to
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recommendations to think of the impact that gifts have had on
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us. What's the best Christmas gift
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you ever got? Oh best Christmas gift I ever
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got. I don't know if it was the best
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but it definitely ranks up there and one that I will always
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remember. It was the Christmas I was 8
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years old and. You can remember that.
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I can remember that, yeah, yeah, Still can remember that.
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It was, you know, in the last century, but.
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I can still remember last Millennium, actually.
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Yeah, it was before you were born.
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Yeah. So I walked downstairs on
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Christmas morning and set up in the living room was a brand new
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set of bunk beds, which was like, I don't know why, but that
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was like really cool to me. You can only sleep on one
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though. Yeah, that's for me and my
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brother. Yeah, yeah.
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Like I get choices every night. No, no, no, no, we, we shared a
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room from the time, from the time he moved, you know, out of
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my parents room as an infant. It wasn't there.
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Like it's just the magic of Christmas.
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Like it wasn't there the night before and there it was all set
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up. You know, this big wooden bunk
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bed set. Yeah, no, I like, I like the the
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concept of the the magic of Christmas.
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I was like around that same age and I was determined to catch
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sand in the act. And so I was going to sleep in
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this cardboard box hiding next to the Christmas tree, or I was
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going to stay up all night right in the box.
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How'd that work out? Passed out by like 10:00.
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Mom just went and said everything happened.
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I just woke up to everything oh so close.
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So close. I would say most.
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There's a couple like as a kid, memorable ones of so mad one
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year because my mom was a teacher and educator so
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education was super important and I wanted to she wanted me to
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learn Spanish and I should have dedicated more time to that
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retrospect. One year I got Rosetta Stone.
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Oh yeah. Which is a big digital learning
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tool for learning different languages.
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Like Duolingo before Duolingo existed.
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And a lot more expensive, yeah, sure.
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Than Duolingo. And I was like this is it this?
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Because I know expensive it was right?
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Right, right, right, right. I was like, great, I got more
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school work for Christmas and then I went back, went to the
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back porch and I think it was also the same year that I got my
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first bike. And so and like they they had to
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really let me know how much work went into it because apparently
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Kmart blue light sales, if anyone remember that was out of
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the bike with like tanks that I wanted, but they had one that
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was disassembled that they could do.
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So my grandfather and my mom had to completely put together this
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bike. And so it was one of those like
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get you low. So then the highs, even high,
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the Rosetta is better than the bike, but that was definitely a
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more memorable Christmas gift for sure.
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I remember one of the one of the fun gifts we got somewhere along
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the way me and my brother both got funk bad.
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But these popper guns that like you push the two pieces together
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in the air forces the ball out and had like probably 15 ping
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pong ball size balls out. We had fun with those for years.
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So my my, my Christmas gift recommendations are not nearly
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that fun. I don't.
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Know you think I'm going to let you go back to that Nope no.
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So my follow up at youth group was what was the best gift
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someone gave you that money couldn't buy?
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Could be a kind word, could be time together, could be an
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experience, whatever. Specifically at Christmas.
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No, it doesn't have to because it just wasn't the best gift
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someone gave you that money couldn't buy.
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That's a tougher 1, so I'll go 1st to buy you time.
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All right. Go for it.
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Obviously, if Rebecca's listening, it's the children
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that's the answer. The family that I've gotten
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through marriage, that's it. Now, Rebecca, you can stop
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listening. More recently, the standout one.
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When I was in Mexico this past summer, I got to catch up with a
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near and dear friend, Salomon, who maybe known as the doctor
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that helped some of our mission team during the mission trip.
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But we got together after the mission trip and we hadn't seen
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each other for maybe like nine years or something like that
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because he was off at doctor school and then doing
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internships and clinical, like all that kind of stuff.
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And he finally moved back into the area and towards the end of
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our conversation, he was just like flabbergasted, like
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surprised, but in a good pleasantly surprised at how much
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I had changed and grown as a person and how God had been
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working in my life. And and for me, that was one of
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the more one of the best gifts he could have provided was just
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a confirmation of what God had been doing in my life all these
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years where some people are like, well, I like you.
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So like, yeah, God's done good things or I don't know.
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I feel like in ministry, people can't imagine how I was before.
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So to have someone that knew me really, really well before and
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see me now and see the transformation that God has done
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in my life slowly but surely over the past however many years
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was just an incredible gift. That what I've acknowledged and
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recognized isn't just my imagination, and that someone
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that would be able to tell it was able to see that.
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And so that was a beautiful gift.
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Yeah, so if we're not, if we're not saying, you know, Christmas
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wives and family and all that kind of stuff, but.
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If you're listening, it's. Definitely that, definitely her.
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I think it might be invitation back into ministry when we came
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after we came back from Uganda and it kind of resettled here in
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New Jersey. You know, we aren't really sure
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what the future held. I wasn't sure that I was going
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to go back into ministry or if just enter the the workforce, so
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to speak, and just find a job to do.
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And, you know, clearly if if that offer, if that invitation,
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that gift hadn't been given, I wouldn't be here today having
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this conversation with you. He wouldn't be here either.
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And so I think that's what I would say, yeah.
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Thanks, Ronnie. Yeah.
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No, for sure. And so with those two things in
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mind, what are some gift recommendations that we can
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provide people? Yeah, well, you were trying to
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be all sensitive and say, you know, Scott, not everybody wants
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to read a book, but I don't really care.
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That's that's I'm sure there are other good gift recommendations.
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But you know, when I was thinking about it, specifically
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books, some specific books came to my mind because people ask me
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sometime, like, how do you Like, how have you gotten to where you
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are? Like you, you, you think about
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things in Scripture like so differently than I ever.
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Well, mostly it's because I read and other people think about
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things differently than I do. And so that makes me think about
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things differently. And so if, if I only ever
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thought about scripture because I was the one reading scripture
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and thinking about it, yes, the Holy Spirit speaks, but I don't
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think that I would get to where I've gotten in some of my
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thinking without the role of some other people who have
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spoken into my life, my life through their writings.
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And so, you know, I'm always, people are always asking it like
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I'm dealing with this and there's a, there's always a book
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coming to my, Oh, they, you should read this or Oh, you're,
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you're thinking, here's something that might help you
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think through. And so if you've got some ideas
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that that aren't book based, that's that's great.
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But my recommendations are all going to be books.
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That's okay. What books?
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Top ones. But one that I was thinking
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about this year, if you are, if you're thinking about trying to
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get a gift for somebody who is maybe trying to figure out like
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what's going on in the world, what is really happening, kind
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of trying to figure out the bigger story.
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The tagline of this book is the story you live in is the story
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you live out. And so it's called All Things
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New. It's by Pete Hughes and he's a
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Anglican pastor in the UK, Spoke at New Room a few years ago.
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But he just kind of works through the story of scripture,
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drawing out some different things, trying to run some
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threads through the whole like chase down some threads through
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the whole story of scripture and just super helpful in reframing
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kind of the the whole story of scripture and then helping us
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find our place in that story, right?
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Because story of scripture ends in what is still for us in the
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future, right? It's still happening.
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We're somewhere in between Acts 28 and somewhere in Revelation,
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depending on how you interpret all that.
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So that, that would be my first one.
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What do you, what do you got? What's your number one
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recommendation? Right now one.
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Yeah. I'm going to have two, OK?
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Because I don't follow your rules, Scott.
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Yeah, I'm going to have one for super Bible nerds and then for
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people just trying to carve out some time with God.
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So super Bible nerds, the most helpful tool I've had for
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figuring out background about Bible and history and context
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and all the stuff like, OK, I didn't go to seminary.
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Well, I'm in seminary now, but like when I read this, I didn't
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go to seminary. I didn't take Greek, I didn't
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take Hebrew. I don't know all the history and
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stuff like that. I want to know that, but I also
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don't want someone to shove their opinions down my throat
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and point me in their direction instead of like, just give me
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the additional information and I'll go with it as like as I see
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fit. And so the IVP Bible Background
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Commentary, New Testament by Craig S Keener has been that
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tool for me. He's just a nerd that provided
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all of his wisdom, not even wisdom like findings into a book
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verse by verse. And we'll lay things out like
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this is how Jews would have understood it.
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This is how people, Jesus's time may have understood it.
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Since then, people have thought these three main things.
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This is the most popular. This is why some people think
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this like it's not a this is one way the highway.
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This is how it's interpreted and the only way it's interpreted.
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And then you go to a different commentary and you're like,
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wait, this is very different than what that person just said.
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And so, yeah, he just very good at laying it out and in plain
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enough language that I can understand it yeah, as well.
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So that's my Bible nerd recommendation.
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There's also a study Bible version of that, right?
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The NIV Bible background study Bible.
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Keener did the New Testament and John Walton did the Old
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Testament and it's. Just like my Christmas.
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List study Bible format where it's got like different notes
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and stuff related to things as it's as you're working through
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scripture. Yeah.
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An all in one it probably won't have nearly as in text.
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It wouldn't be as in depth for sure.
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This one is bigger than some Bibles, and it just covers New
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Testament, Right. And it doesn't even include the
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bibliography because it would double the size of the book.
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Like all the references it's referencing.
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Yeah. To resources to make the claims.
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And then one that helped me with that sermon I recently did with
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the Philadelphia Zacchaeus kind of story.
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That's part of my my current class, which it's finals week.
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So be praying even though it's Thursday.
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If you're if you hear this on Thursday, keep praying, but it's
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called meeting God in Scripture by Jan Johnson, a hands on guide
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to Electio Davina 40 guided meditations.
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It is just an incredible step by step walking through a
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scripture, praying, guiding you through some questions.
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And so for me, it's OK, I'm having trouble carving out time
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with God and when I do, I don't know what to do.
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If you're that person or if you know someone that feels like
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they don't have time for God to be able to provide them this
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tool and even just shoot them the goal of once a week.
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It doesn't have to be a daily thing.
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Once a week, carve out 1015 minutes with God and just go
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through the table of contents. You don't have to go and order
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what theme sticks out to you. Pick that one and just work your
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way through it. It's been very fruitful for
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those that I've gifted it to and it's been fruitful for myself.
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And it's just really helpful to help you lock in and very
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intentional about that time with God.
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And so those would be my two book recommendations.
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Yeah. This holiday season.
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This holiday. We have 0 coupon codes.
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We do apologize. Yeah, sorry for that.
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You can go buy them for full price wherever you buy books.
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Do you have? Another book recommendation.
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Couple others, 2 that we've been, I've been working through
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with the group that's together in the cohort we're calling the
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Forge. One is called Waking the Dead,
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it's by John Eldridge. The other is How to Hear God by
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Pete Craig. And both of those have just been
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so helpful. I, I chose them for that group
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because they've been formative for me in the way I think about
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things, think about the world, think about what it means to
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follow Jesus. So I would recommend those
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unreservedly. And then I was thinking, if
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you're buying for kids and you're looking for a book or, or
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you want to buy a book that you can read to some kids, couple
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ideas. One is called so the Green Ember
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by SD Smith. Great story.
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It's the first in the series. The whole series is good, just
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kind of bringing some real truths down to some very
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approachable levels by some 4 kids.
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And the other would be the Wing Feather Saga by Andrew Peterson,
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another series. I think that that one's four
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books that our family has just loved.
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Just great stories, great stories.
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And a show coming out, I think. That they are working on an
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animated version yeah I think it's in season 3 now.
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Oh wow yeah. But the books are way better way
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better always because there's you just can't compress it down
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enough for a show anyway. So those are my recommended any
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any kid or youth recommendations or.
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My youth already know all my work, I mean, but if you have,
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if you have youth that maybe aren't in our youth group, fix
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that. Problem solved.
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Kids stuff, kids stuff. The one that I've come back to
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and I even showed it earlier I think this year.
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And one of my sermons is the biggest story Bible storybook.
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It's a definitely a thicker one, but it essentially like story by
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story goes through the Bible and tells it in a really for the
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most part, very understandable child level way.
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And each story ends with a prayer.
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And so there may be like 2 to 4 pages, excuse me, each story.
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And I've enjoyed it. I was worried like, you know,
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when you're compressing or altering scripture to make it
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easier and more digestible for kids, Like sometimes they can go
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awry, I would say. Yeah, you're always bringing in
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interpretation at that level. Writing it, they might try and
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really push you in a certain theological direction.
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And this one has been like solid but neutral.
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You're not going in a specific way.
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And, and it's funny, like I'm reading it and it'll, you know,
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just bring it down to a level that I'm not good at doing on my
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own. And beautiful artwork, every
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single page, incredible artwork. And so my boys love it, even
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even younger than Theo, after we read every single stories, like
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I want to see the animals. And then he opens up to the back
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and there's a lion and the whale and, you know, all that kind of
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stuff. And so, yeah, that's the the
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biggest story Bible storybook, I would say for youth, if they're
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not going to go to our youth group, that the best Bible that
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I've found for youth is called the NLT Teen Bible.
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And when you look it up, it's like a white, blue, black cover.
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And we'll, I'm sure Add all these books to the show notes so
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you can just click on links. And when I say we Scott will do
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that and that Bible, I think the hard covers, I think out of
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print, it's now soft cover or fake leather one.
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But the translation seems to be the easiest for our kids to
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read. Very close with the ESV if you
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find another ESV. But the supplemental information
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on the sides was just really useful and helpful for them to
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better understand what's going on in the Scriptures.
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And so I did thorough research with my own youth a while ago to
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be like, OK, which of these Bibles?
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We bought like over a dozen some Bibles and they weren't all teen
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specific because I hate it when it says teen or kids and all it
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is is it says it on the outside, maybe some colorful pictures on
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the inside, but it doesn't actually help them better
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understand it. And so we went through a whole
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plethora of Bibles and this was the most youth useful tool.
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So would that be the the Teen life Application study Bible
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NLT? Yes, yeah, that's the one.
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And so every time I have a kid that's like, can you get me a
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Bible? That's the one I grabbed for
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because it's it's the most helpful on their own time,
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right. You can get any Bible that they
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can read along with during church, during whatever.
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But if they're going to be navigating it alone and maybe
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not have the confidence or a person to reach out to with
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questions that that's available to them in their Bible for sure
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is a great tool. I'm going to push you because I
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hate books. Push me.
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What's something people can do, what's a gift they can provide
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to have potential profound life giving, meaningful experience,
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or yeah, those types of gift like Ron gave you that people
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can try and be intentional about this holiday season.
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Not everybody has a ministry job to offer someone.
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Sure. But if we strip it back, what
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are some of the more generalized opportunities that we can look
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for? I think the biggest gift you can
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ever give someone is yourself, right?
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It's, it's your time, it's your energy, it's your willingness to
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walk through life with them and through that to then have an
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opportunity to share some of the experiences you've had and, and
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the opportunities you've had. And so I think if you're, if
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you're trying to think of how to give someone an opportunity like
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that, it starts with walking closely with them and and giving
25:18
them yourself. It might not always be
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convenient. It might not always seem
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beneficial to you in the moment. There might be some sacrifice
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involved with that. There's some vulnerability that
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has to be there. But I think the best gift you
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can give someone is yourself. As I as I posed a similar
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question to our youth, it was time.
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Just intentional time, being with someone, kind words.
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It's that time spent with people that lets you then understand
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where you can more come alongside them, right?
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It's you know you can say a nice word to a stranger walking down
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the street. It doesn't really matter though,
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because you don't know that person.
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Like it might make a difference in their day for sure.
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But when you really take the time to know someone and to let
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them know you, then when you offer an encouragement in the
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midst of a hard day or a hard season or whatever, it means so
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much more because you've walked with them through that.
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Yeah. And.
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And in the chaos of the holiday season and all the things going
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on, sometimes it's harder to be intentional about giving of our
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time. Yeah.
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And that kind of stuff, you know?
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And so to think back of the most meaningful things that someone's
26:46
given you and making sure that maybe that shouldn't maybe gain
26:50
a little more attention and focus this holiday season
26:53
compared to books. Although don't skip on the
27:00
books, don't. Skip on the books.
27:04
Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
27:06
the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
27:09
on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
27:13
we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
27:16
can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
27:21
Thanks for being part of this conversation.