Latest / Reframe / 15: Glenn Mckimmin, Photographic entrepreneur And creative genius

Transcript

15: Glenn Mckimmin, Photographic entrepreneur And creative genius · Reframe

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what truly fuels a creative mind?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: What ignites their passions and drives their creativity?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: G'day, I'm Dean McGuire, an Australian fine art photographer.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: From the moment I stepped into the world of photography, I have been captivated by the community and the stories behind the lens.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Join me as we delve into humble beginnings, explore artistic visions, and discover how we as a collective reframe our minds through the power of creativity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Before we dive into this episode, I'd like to give a quick shout-out to the incredible team at Nisky Filters Australia.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Misty offer world-class products like high-quality filters with minimal colour costs, an impressive range of cinematic lenses, and various other accessories to fuel your creative endeavors.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Misty Australia actively supports the greater photography community through workshops, educational events, and live streaming webinars on YouTube and other social media channels.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: As a special trait, Misty Australia are offering all reframe listeners a storewide discount of five to sell.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can even combine this with south buttons and other promotions for further discounts by using the code reframe.com.au today.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you and welcome to reframe.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: We touch on Glenn's early days and rise to the photographic entrepreneurial machine he currently drives.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: What have you been up to, Glenn?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what have I been up to?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've just um tons this year.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I've just got back from Kenya um doing a fun little safari tour over there.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, that's it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: I only got back last week, so still jet lagged.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: So that's all you've been doing because it's not doing tons just Kenya.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I think I saw some of that actually on your social media there.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: You go with the Masai tribes?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we went we did a we did a fly-in, fly out, so we went um Samburu and then you go back to the domestic airport, fly to Amberselli, back to domestic, and then to the Masay Mara.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So usually you finish on the Mara for migration.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but as with animals and stuff, it's hard to actually predict exact time.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: So probably a fraction early.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or we went there on the right days.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't see a massive migration, but we saw bucket loads of animals.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Incredible place.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: How many trips have you done this year now so far?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: This year, probably I don't know, seven or eight.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: You've done a few.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: A few.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, workshop company, right?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: It is, it's good fun.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a do you have a favourite place?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Kamchatka.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a that's tough right now.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can't go over it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've still got a deposit sitting there for a tour back in 2019 before COVID and then prior to obviously Russia imploding.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, that's incredible.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like that sits off the far east of Russia in the Bering Sea and it's volcanoes and massive bears, but it's just you're so close.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like you'll have a bear literally you know, three meters from you that could kill you in two seconds, walk straight past with one guy with a shotgun.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just one guy with a shotgun.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: How has it been around bears when you're that close?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Scary.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Scary?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: Are you like learning?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Those ones are so well fed, um and it's the biggest salmon spawn in the world, so they're they're constantly eating.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the salmon are huge, these socks eye salmon are huge too.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: So they're constantly eating, they're not hunted by humans, so they're not threatened.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's um, but even in Kenya, like you're that close, we were that close.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: The lions just walk up to the car and the male will just piss on um.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: That thing peculiar too.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: So the sole car shape when they're right there.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Mate, they're big power off the size of the car, you know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean the new lines are big.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen them before, but until you're right next to it, that's that's a big animal.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: Power, full muscle too.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: All 100% muscle and beard, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, big man.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, full hipster.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: So full hipster is quite like you then.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's exactly.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Where did you start out?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, look, um I always get this one out of the way early.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: So Ken Ken Duncan's my aunt.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um but but prior to well, I can't say prior to that.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, please.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: But look, I love uh at high school we had a a photography section and a and dark room.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I was a sporty type person, and you know, those two things didn't really cross.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: But um I just loved it back then.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then I was um in sort of a career.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: A girlfriend of mine had moved down to the Central Coast, um, and I had I was on the Gold Coast playing footy at that time of the season finished, so I just decided to move down with her.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Sister was here.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, one thing I got a deal in Sydney to play some footy, and um I needed a job that was flexible, and they had a they had a job gone at the printing and framing company, and I remember walking in there and seeing a transparency for the first time on a light box, and I was just like, that's it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's the best thing I've ever seen.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Cairn and um I bought my first little Nikon film camera and I bought some 35mm tranny film and Gelvia and went out and experimented with them from there, it's just been and then working for him.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, you can't it you can't sort of if I went to a university and all these people doing masters of photography and no offense, but what's that gonna give me at the end of the day?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Some degree that I can get some grants for.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't really float my boat.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: But it's it's basically living and working with the you know, the the OG in Australia.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that because he's family, it's just reality.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well he is, it isn't it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: He started the platform for which a lot of people have come from.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely started us coming in.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, walking around the stories have been walking around with the portfolio box.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: No one was selling pictures.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I think to be able to work for him and Miami and see the business and and the business of photography.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: They had 53 staff and five physical galleries, and it's an enterprise all from one guy.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, taking photos.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that that wasn't the motivation, but I think working for him taught me you know, A, the reality of what it takes.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: You don't sleep.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: You stress a lot.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: You want your own business, but you're working hard, yeah, yeah.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: But you gotta fight for it, man.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: And people come in at times and threaten it and do stuff, but you gotta fight for it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta just you know do the right thing by those who work for you, but also by your family.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I put food on the table.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: So you gotta protect that, and that's what I'll say to me.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you've got to be a pay on the arts.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So do you you um were assistant for Glenn, but um Charles had the other one?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: I assisted myself.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry for not Glenn.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I got his assist myself.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh, far from assisting Ken, yeah, um, did you assist any other people?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, David Oliver was a huge influence on my career.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I I worked for David for a bit, and um, yeah, he was incredible.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's another guy, um well k Ken always used to say about David and Ken used his argument saying, Ken used to say to David, because he loves black and white, so dogs see him black and white.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: We had that conversation, so I ordered it up for him.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um basically um David taught me or showed me the world of um you know Anthony Adams, Henry Cartier Brest song, uh Mary Ellen Mark, um Richard Avendon.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: I I remember lining up in Paris with Claire and David.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: We were only in Paris for a couple of days, but we lined up for a Richard Avondon exhibition, yeah, lining up for a photographic exhibition.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't happen in Australia, but we did for quite a while to get in.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um and seeing those images, he did a whole series on trying to deconstruct the deep deep south of America by just doing these portraits of people.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's an incredible series.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: We went in and saw that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And learning how you know the history of photography, which I think is super important, where it started, where it came from, and it probably helps you try and fit in a bit where you'll figure out where you fit in.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then also the other guy was Leo Meyer.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um Leo is like a scientist, he's a very good friend of Ken's.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um one of the most intelligent, like probably a genius, and I'm not don't say that accidentally.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: He's literally builds his own lenses and cameras.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's like a yeah um incredible scientific, but his photos were just when I first saw them, they'll just he just saw things different.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: You almost saw in 360 degrees, that's how he shot.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah, you got it was always influences.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think um the assistant role is should still be a big thing in the industry?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: We were just talking about it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was in I was when I was in Kenya, we had a guy, um, Matemar and Trent came.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just doing a new um product launch with Fuji.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we did some video over there with Fuji and Trent came and we were like I had three cameras going, multiple lenses, yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um changing things and and also stuff.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: And Trent was the same with video, and it's like we both looked at each other and said, man, it'd be good to have them see so much because it's just uh in those situations.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: But no, I think I think if people can you know learn off someone they admire or or something but I think the the big thing is nowadays, like I never got I got paid off Amican when I did it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um and David Um the the wage wasn't huge and nor should it be.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the reality.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can go do university degrees and and pay big money and and do all that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: But working with someone who actually is in that genre doing it and learning from them, you can't pay you can't pay enough money for the company.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like being in a company.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like being a parents.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think the system's still uh uh yeah, there's still a place.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think um social media's kind of let that down a little bit just because everyone wants something for free?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's open up a can of word, but get it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just can of words unless you're talking about.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh it's it's a bit like you know, I over the years, you know, I've worked with in and around a lot of photographers and everyone wants to be a photographer, and um the reality of that in this day and age isn't that easy, you know.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: You guys it's not easy to make money out of photography.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I've got what four or five businesses that all were in around photography, thankfully, and I've built those on my own by the printing and framing, you know, and to build them up, but people always do want to come in and think they can do this and help you and do that and help you.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: But at the end of the day, social media is just a vessel to to share work with, but it's probably the most important vessel I have.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I look at it differently, like it's for me, it's not me posting what I'm having for breakfast, lunch and dinner and trying to influence anyone that I'm not really great at that, as much as marketing people have told me I should be doing more of them.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't, it's not who I am.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I use it for ads, but it's I spend a you know a large portion of any money I have I spend on ads trying to get more business.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: The the ability for us to be able to target our clients so effectively and succinctly has never there's never been a point in history where it's that easy.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you it is quite successful because every time I open Facebook, I see an ad for you and the Sydney Bridge coin.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's true.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not even like having a cracker, it's just saying it's working.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can see it every time I go on there.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I get the Lake Air videos constantly because of the similar type of uh travel.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and that's the thing.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: People like I've had other photographers, you know, work for me with me that want to do tours and I let them do tours or we work together or something.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that, you know, inevitably some people go off and do their own tours and run their own and that and I've no God who cares.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: There's enough.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: There's 26 million people in Australia.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: If anyone's and this happens a lot, people get the shits with people because they you can't go there because I do that place, and you can't go there.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's plenty of room six million people in this country.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's enough fish.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: She'll worry, yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And your business is that crap that you can't get enough clients to fill up.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Don't blame them.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like or the next person, yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I forget where I was going with that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, it's I agree with you there.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's I think people need to let go of that what they believe is their turf because they don't own it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone should be welcome to visit them.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've had I've had photographers now I know who d you know, somehow I'm not friends with them on Facebook anymore, but I hold much into that anyway.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I've just been deleted and I still don't know why.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't had a conversation with these people.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: But no, I don't really care.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm like, oh, what did I do?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: Did I go to Lake Angel?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Shouldn't I?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I go to Tasmania or shouldn't I?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, to have it be able to afford to buy a camera no matter what it is, it's a privilege.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Just just pack it up and getting back to social media.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think the thing with with like, okay, you post stuff, and you know, I can you can look at oh and people are complaining, oh mine doesn't get enough reach, or I don't get enough people looking at it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, there's a really simple answer, and and it's it annoys the shit out of people.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe your stuff's shit.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't mean that as in your work is shit.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: What I mean is we are as photographers and as as a as a market, you've got to look at it.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: The Instagram and everything is flooded every single day with photographs.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I decided, I don't know if it's anything new, but I decided not to do so many photographs.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And add more content about what I was doing.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was the prototype.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think social media has turned to that now anyway.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very the whole fakeness that it was has now turned into this like ultimate reality show where people just want to be as raw as possible.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: So and I think the behind the scenes thing that you see you doing a lot is issues.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you would but you were doing that a while back now.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I started younger.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: You actually had your own page for like behind the scenes.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was uh you had that with and then you had your photos in it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got rid of that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think too, you've got to look, people are always going about, oh, how many likes do you get and all this crap?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, up for my following, and if I put a picture up, I don't really get it doesn't matter how grown I think you do, I don't get heaps of likes.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I'll tell you what, I put a video up or something up every year about something that matters to me, which is my sister passing up.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: 65,000 views.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's so to say, oh my people don't like my pictures, or no, people are sick of seeing pictures.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it doesn't that what you're putting there doesn't resonate with them.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: So don't blame the platform, say that it doesn't work for you.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: You just put a message out that matters, and that's it's it pulls on heartstrings and it actually can change people's lives and something like that, then that's the things people are looking for.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because there is it's it's got real, but there's still a lot of fake shit.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, face it.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: I don't and pretend stuff.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I've sold 50,000 prints this year, it's all lies, man.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: See, you know, you could your bullshit to make yourself look better.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: But that's where I think it's at.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a tricky point, which you know, because it's the the time invested in social media and running that side of things.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've got five, six different accounts across different businesses I try and do on my own.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Which I'm shit at.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not consistent and all things are supposed to be.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the key behind it all is a good base with a good ad spend.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And you can it's proven.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I think l last time I came up, I was here with my family.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: We came through your gallery and popped in and and you said that the biggest thing about photography now is the the message and the story behind the photo, not the photograph itself.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's the story that tells it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and a physical gallery, like to be able to walk in or an exhibition or just to be able to print and frame your stuff.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like that that how many a lot of the big physical galleries in Australia aren't here anymore.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's no you don't see a lot of photograph photographic galleries.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're sitting in the biggest one in the country.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you don't see a lot anymore.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: And whilst you have your ups and downs, and like Mark Gray is killing it, I reckon.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, I think he's doing really, really well.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: I know Tom Putts for the gallery down in Mornington.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, I love seeing physical space with art in it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's and I think it's it's it's probably more a look at Australia.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: The best in the country is Eugene Town, Aquabumps by far.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and as much as he's not he's not um adorned by the industry whatsoever, which I think's a tragedy.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I could not agree with it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's like your classic life and surf photographer that's the most he's a lovely guy, he's humble.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: But what he's actually done for photography is is you know, he's the biggest, in my opinion, the biggest and best photographer in Australia right now.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, cool.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what he's doing for the art form.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and not just that, with with um with Eugene, he's he's taken this a simple subject and just gone, how can I make this?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's what I like.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: He shoots it, he lives there, and he just created, he was a graphic designer, yeah, web designer for a little bit there, and then hung through and just created this website and then was doing it on the slide.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I've had I've had other you know know-dal photographers because everyone's a know it all and they can do it and should do it, but they're not doing it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's it's like they'll say, Oh, I can do that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: I can take a photo of Bondo every day.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Do it piss off.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you go down there and try.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the stuff he captures, like it isn't it's everyday life, but it's not easy.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: He does it so well that to make it look like art and model the house, the way they like interact with their clients, the way he's branded himself, the whole like that's what the industry should be looking at.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think um hearing his talk at Aperture um a few years back now was um was enlightening because you already knew who he was and you knew his work, but you didn't really know the whole backstory.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the way you've you brought him in via Aperture, I think was an eye-opener for not just me, but a lot of people that came along to that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well that conference was at see, I started that because it just felt like the industry I don't know, I I I was in the AIPP for a while and it's since obviously invited and shut down.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: But even when I started Aperture, I I got hate mail like to me because I was apparently, but someone said to me, I might have been getting or something.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: So you know you're doing something good or when you're testing an industry when you receive kickback or something.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I used to get these shit messages from people just berating feeling, and who do I think I am?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you wouldn't do anything if it wasn't for your uncle, and all that stuff I've had to deal with.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: But at the end of the day, I did it, and I'll continue to hopefully do it if we can get the industry support, is just because you you don't know these stories and the struggles.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um, what these people that especially that first year, like the Murray Fredericks, um Gary Hearing's like, what he photographed Andy Walpole.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: He did Donna's album cover, but but these are Australian photographers who and Ray Martin even said it.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: People don't even know who they are.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: I know Ray Martin himself made a photographer, and people didn't know that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that whole but that it says more about so that you had the industry bodies sort of, you know, not really uh so obsessed and still are with giving each other gold awards.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, fuck who cares?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: What do you what do you need an award for?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Who what why do I need any other photographer to tell me that my photo's good?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it does nothing for anyone, it just is a self-serving pattern where you're constantly slapping each other on the back.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: And and meanwhile, as I've always said, you've got clients and the general public standing over there waving, going, hold on, I'm over here.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, why should I pay two grand for that?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Or why should I pay a thousand bucks or ten grand for you to do my wedding?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because they don't understand the value because the industry's never actually taken the time to educate them.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is that also because the industry is too busy fighting each other?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Gee, it's too busy arguing about I was never known anything like it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I came from sport and stuff, and I never knew this in in fighting and how you pee piss people off, and you don't I don't even know who I've pissed off now, it's lost me up.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: But but that's the thing, you just keep trucking along.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I think aperture was a good was a great thing, and it still will be, in that you have to tell the stories to the general public.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we c we can all want to be photographers and we can battle each other.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: But if we work together and did things which educate the general public on the value of how hard it is, not just I don't just wake up and go take those or or you know, it's not it's not always that simple.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: No it seems to be.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: But then there's another thing about presenting it, marketing it, getting a space, exhibiting it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: All those things along the run.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: But if people don't understand, all they do is walk in and see a picture on the wall for three grand or four grand or ten grand, where's the value?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: How do you teach them the value?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's that's where the industry needs to actually generate all of its interest is is educating the Australian public.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember when you were talking about aperture.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I was up here for a shoot.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was just coming up, you know, I was must have been here for work and I popped in and you were talking about aperture, and I'm like, yes, I'll be up, I'm in.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I'm pretty much that's exactly what I said.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, I'll be there.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um Man, it was a dream.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was fantastic.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean Mate, I literally woke up one night after my sister died.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: I used to have a a pad next to my bed and I had ideas and I used to write ideas down.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that came me like a just a you know, light little moment.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I just I'd started that, like I had one sponsor, eight speakers, and I paid the deposit for that Piemont theatre.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to know how much that costs for a weekend.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I paid the deposit off the back of one sponsor and eight speakers and took a chance, you know.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't and no one people don't see all that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: I even had one ass wipes, pardon me.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there's all right.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And he and he did the math.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, You've charging this much per ticket, and um you've got this many people here.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is and he showed me his phone, his character, he goes, This is how much you've made.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, well done.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, fuck for you, and B, that is not reality.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've got a lot of you gotta pay if you pay the speaker and you gotta pay us it.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's trying to know and I paid the speakers better than well, from what I was told, better than what they've been paid, because I wanted to honor them, you know.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's about they're the ones that make it their value, not me.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm basically just using their names to make an event.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's not about me.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna share their story as well.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're sharing sharing it the backstory to show what people actually go through to create these photographs.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm watching Ken get up.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this is the best one.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Ken was the last speaker and he got up after Jack Baconey.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: So Ken, and we had to mic Ben up.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember him, Jack Baconey's war photographer, right?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: And just talking about um AIDS victims and shit photograph agents and people getting shot dead.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Real emotional stuff.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but he was speaking like it was just everyday life, because that's his life, right?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's his reality.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Kim was in tears in the front row.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and had to go up to the little alley where he mic'd him up and was like, I still remember he walked on the stage and he was in and he goes, Where's the hope?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's why he said the first thing when he gets on the stairs and goes, Oh my gosh, where's the hope?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, I remember that was.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was that but that was Jack's life scene.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: But if you if you go and pick up the paper tomorrow or go on whatever, we don't do papers really, do we?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: But we go online and you see a photo of someone in Ukraine that someone's shot, like they've witnessed and experienced that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's another guy called James Nashway.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's a whole series about James Nashway, uh documentary, it's quite amazing, called War Photographer.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you have one little insight into that guy's life, and then that's a good documentary.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's a nice series too.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's um I know Apache went kind of had to had to stop because of COVID.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I thought, will that come back?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: I tried this year, um, to be honest, but we just it was tricky to get off the ground.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um I it's tricky because I need industry support.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can't I'm not in despite what people think, I'm not in a position where I can fund that kind of thing on my own.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um whether the industry is willing and able, um uh that's remains to be seen.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I I'll try again next year because I do have a set of speakers ready to go.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um and Gettys, particularly, um, which that's another legend.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean around Michelle's something like 26 million calendars books or something.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was the other day I was talking to Cal, but um insane.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like they're th that type of thing.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: I just yeah, I'm passionate about it, but at the same time, you know, I've also got to worry about my family and providing for them and it can't become awe consuming because I do it all on my own.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't have a team of people.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Everything I do is on my own.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: So um provided it doesn't impact my ability to provide income from your family.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to do it, but it's there's no voluntary.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: If it does consume into bother, it's not worth it.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I I look, I think the thing is the industry I think I can fill the space.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's just getting that industry support.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I still think it is needed.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do too.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of I mean, like I've known you for a while now, and that's something you've always said, community and and the respect, and it just seems like it's just honouring the past.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's that it's what it is.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the history, and that's where you're learning the history of photography comes into play.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you gotta you gotta look back.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's like you know, people winging about cameras, and I run a lot of tours and they're yeah, trying to sew in into the camera and how it works.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I just I always say you've got to go back.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like you had, you know, you had Henri Cartier Bresson running through the streets of Paris, you know, capturing these images with one speed film, three shutter speeds and three apertures.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, photography's not that enough.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the camera shouldn't matter.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: You can break it down to that level, yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: We've just been all get caught up in this.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I want to use this function and my autofocus is not working, or my it's like, don't worry, just it'll work.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like oh yeah.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just concentrate on what you're actually doing, not I'm massive for just using like the measurements on the ends.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh yeah, that's I want to focus on that's probably five meters away and just turn it to five meters.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is when you had film, that's what you do.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: It'd be good.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: What's film?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's the that's I think it's a for it's really a forgotten thing, isn't it?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's it is actually I I watched uh uh on the plane um on the way over to Kenya, I watched a show called I forget the name of it.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'll remember it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: But basically it was this little one-hour doco about a place in uh an area of New York where film and in New York, so film has just surged back.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's like all these films getting remade now, and there's all these little artsy farty faces over there, they're all processing it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And they've had to build these labs now.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, could have it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because they're all gone.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: So they built them back up again.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there's a huge resurgence.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: I forget the name, but I'll I'll see it to my phone, keep talking.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's fun.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: I actually saw like a couple the other day taking photos of each other with a Polaroid camera and like developing it up.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, waving it up.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: You're not meant to shake it, but yeah, anyway.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I did shake it like a Polaroid picture.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you cracked it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're not meant to do.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't got it, I can't.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's all right.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's on the Emirates flights, though.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure if you look at it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you look it up, if you're in the film and you want to look at a cool document about the research.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's a cool couple of shops popping up um called Rewind.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a film development place.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's one in um I think it was one in Alexandria.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I might be getting that wrong, but in that kind of area in the city.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: There's one just moved down into um Wallinggall Town Center.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's down there.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a few more popping up around.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, called Rewind.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: So if you didn't do a film, check out Rewind.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: I do start noticing that people you know write an IP for Ilford like on their like photos on Instagram now, and you can see like they're deliberately, you know, shooting high-key in portraiture.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and you can you can see the grain in it again, and yeah, like, oh like it's actually filmed.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have it, like you said, uh it's it's seems to become like a retro thing now, like records came back for a while.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's becoming a retro thing, I think.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it is, yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is, and uh it'll all come full, it'll probably come full circle.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you should film again.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because uh I wouldn't mind actually because well here's what they said like in this thing, I for I shouldn't remember the name, but but they were saying like digital now, like I've got that beautiful Fuji 100 megapixel thing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Jealous.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Damn it.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: It is amazing, like it is amazing.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's but it's but it's so perfect.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: You can do gigantic prints.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a printing the gallery, which is um the actual print size is I think it's 2.2 meters by 1.6.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Not even scratching that file.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, not even scratching that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: But it's so perfect.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas the thing they were saying in this, it was the imperfections in film, the grain, and sometimes when you're processing through a dark room, not the digital printer, but when you printed through the dark room, it was the imperfections you get a bit of hair on or a bit of dust here, you're a bit of something.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: That was just that that's film, like it wasn't perfect, and that's what made it so cool.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: And now we're used to everything is like pin sharp and beautiful just the way I like it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do too.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: But but there in there is that we're all so used now to looking at perfect.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: Bringing in something that's imperfect.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, there is a link towards wanting to do it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've asked you that in the past.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was easier.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Simple servers storing data, that's for sure.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Filing filing cabinet.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Keep it in little folders.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's crazy.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: You think how much do you think the story behind like sharing your story helps you sell prints?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Major.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Major.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I well Yeah, you'll see if I if people know you, because when you put a I think when you put a picture up, if you put an image up, it's just an image, as I said before, you're all we're all looking at the same stuff every day, really.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Just a variation of a theme, and that's just a print picture of something or something.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: But to s I think to set yourself apart, a A there's two ways, which is tell people why and who you are.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the other way is probably if we collaborate.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: So what who you're working with, does that then verify you as a as an artist?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: So if you do if I do projects like with Bridge Climb, that might elevate my reputation, or if I work with Fuji or someone like that.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's aligning yourself, that's one way to help sell because it validates you as an artist.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: But the story, the who and the why is a huge thing.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: So and that's why I go back to that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I might do one post a year about my sister, but that really is that's my motivation in life is is that you know, doing things she couldn't um or can't.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what I mean?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's what's important.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I think telling that, does it sound more print?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm not just another doing it, maybe putting pictures up.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: You become a personable.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you have so many pictures can you put up?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and put a picture of a tree and go, oh, I wandered into this place today and I I wandered around for three hours before I took the photo off.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't do that at all.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: You walked in, you created picture of the phone.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then he created the story.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he created the story around it.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: That make up all your heavy, fairy shit.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Some people do, and I'm sure some people wander in and feel the grass and touch the trees and good honor.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I would just go to a pretty place and take a photo of.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that that's the rats.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then telling the story behind it helps.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't think it's the the only thing.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's a combination.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: So why landscape?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh with you've you did all these different genres of photography.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like what made you land on landscape?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, short and sweet.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, I um I well I didn't always say I used when I worked for David, yeah, and so it was canon and then David, and I used to do quite a few weddings a year.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: This this I know because I was I asked I asked you for to do my wedding.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so we um I used to do for like quite a few a year, and I built a little business called Loomy Air Images and used to do weddings.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: And um and the reason I did weddings, funnily enough, was because I always wanted to be a war photographer.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: I always wanted to go into like extreme environments.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: And my thinking was if I could nail weddings over and over again, they'll never be out of bed.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not that they're a war environment, but you cannot reshoot them.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, you cannot stuff it up.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a high pressure environment.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: You have to you're photographing the especially in someone's life, if you stuff that so to get good at it and to adjust your ability to see pictures that are posed like what they did.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um I mean, that was so that was it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: So then it went and then obviously um had a little fella and going away to those environments to war or change perspective.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Full-on documentary stuff didn't I had to worry about him.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then the obvious next thing was just, you know, I always loved nature and you know, being in nature.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've lived in some beautiful places in my life and stuff, and that was just just drawn to it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well like w what drew you to doing the war?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did you think um the adrenaline from your your sporting career really push you into that as well?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it a combination of both?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think it's telling the like there's there's if I ever read years ago and give me your voice to the voiceless.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Or something like that along those lines.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like telling the it's fun, like we can go and take fit pictures of real estate agents because they all need some more photos than themselves.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can um Because then they can go past on a ball.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or you can do a wedding, or you can do this, but yeah it's like I've always been a bit of a thinker.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: And does it really mean anything at the end of the day?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: And if it does, like what does it mean?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: And what are you changing?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas with the documentary stuff or the no, not necessarily wars, but those finding a story.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I did a journalism degree at uni, so to to be able to write and photographs and and one of my other uncles, Gary Burns, was um with Channel 9 for years and years.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: He was a foreign correspondent entirely in New Zealand.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: He worked with a photographer called Neil Davis.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: He was there when Neil died in Bangkok and coup.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I read their book One Crowded Hour, which was all about that scenario.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just something about covering those sorts of stories.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it was, it just seemed something treated with storytelling.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: Really that's what we're doing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Show it off the land.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Usually storytelling storytelling.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: So printing.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: So you obviously you are creative for life, then um it's another avenue of your your income stream.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: But um what draw what draws you to printing?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um well again, I got that off Pam Ken.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because they started that some 35 years ago.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um and they started it just purely because they couldn't find the quality they were after anywhere else and they wanted in full control of it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think a lot's changed since then.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: So not a lot of people with obviously social media, not a lot of people are printing.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's less galleries, everything's on our phones and stuff.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: So but I think printing is just I don't know, there's all these things of photographs not photographs all it's printed, yeah, all this, and yeah, there's truth to that.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: But it's changed.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about two different worlds now.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like photograph is a photo, you can see it now.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas when they said that you couldn't.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I still think like if you've done and achieved something, to be able to, you know, print it out and see it and be able to pick those papers, the tones, all those sorts of things, and be able to get a physical print.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's a bit like when I first saw a transparency piece of transparency film, that was like so it's like your little baby.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: But when you get, you know, the the piece of of a print and you're looking at it.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just think there's something it sort of brings that all that work to life.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's super important.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: People don't do it enough.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not here to say you should do more.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you should No, no, you should print more often, yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think if if you want to be initiated in a different level, I find.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feels like if you connect to it again.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when it's on a screen, you can't actually connect to it as well.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the the difference between seeing it on your screen is gonna if you print it and it's incorrect, like if your builders.cardboard, it's gonna come out completely different on the way you want it.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't like and that whole saying it's not a photograph until it's printed, I think it's completely true.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing is exactly what you just mentioned with the screen.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: If everyone's screen is different, so your photo looks different on every single screen.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: You'd have a yellow filter or a blue filter, or it's not calibrated, or it's super high contrast added.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: Once you print it, that is how you're presenting your work.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: It can't change.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: But it can even change from having an Apple photo to a Samsung photo or a Huawei or a Sodia.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, screen is different.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or you put it on a TV, a Samsung, a hisen, or any of these, it's gonna be different on every single one of them.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: But when it's a print and it's done on the same paper, every time's good it's if you use the same printer, of course.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: And once it's framed and hanging on the wall, yeah.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's there for art.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's where it becomes.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the end result.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's where it ends, unless you're doing a book or something like that.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: But that's yeah.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: How many times do you take a photo on your phone and then you just go, Oh, that's cool.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you never go back to it.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: It'll just sit on it or drive.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: You delete it so you can get more room when you throw it.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, wait, no, no, no.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I think look, and then the the next the greatest thing is then you do that, and then and that's what obviously the biggest honor you can have is then someone wants to put that on their wall at home.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that's like that's that's the goal for me.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: And that's getting back to like the wall where no one's ever asked me what industry body I belong to or how many awards I've won.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm like, my sh my stuff, I'm not stupid.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I'm not the best photographer out there, my stuff's not the greatest, and I'm okay with that.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm probably a little bit better at figuring out how to market it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, my my I wouldn't win any of the awards in Australia, and I'm yeah, it's just not what I shoot for, it's not how I shoot.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's just I just see stuff and take a photo of it and bring it in frame.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with competitions, you've got to kind of shoot for the competition.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you take you out of that photograph.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's like, what's that really doing?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's creating a bunch of sheep.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: They all follow each other and it's so then so the people who are running those industries can then dictate the flip.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry if I'm sounding negative to it.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a place.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: I really do.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it's about are award-winning photos commercially viable?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: We just spoke we literally spoke about that actually with Ken a little bit.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like my own experience in particular, where I went down that road to trying to win as many awards.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it it was some kind of a dopamine hit for me where I kind of like was like, oh, I felt validated.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then the end of everyone's like, okay, now I've won all these awards.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, now I'm gonna try and start to be more like selling work.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you tr you present this work that's all award winning, and no one even looked at it like, oh, that's very moody, that's too dark.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we don't like this.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: And people people would actually physically in front of you say, like, oh, that's that's a bit like hard to look at.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: You oh my customer doesn't want this.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's not commercially viable at all.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's just look at it, like it and you flip it on its head, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's too I think it's it's it's needed, and it's a type of photography which is valid.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think if you're not shooting a range of styles, you can't be commercial.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: No, it makes it tricky.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the thing, you've got to think about like when I'm putting pictures in the gallery and how I process them, you know the things I look at, yeah.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: The things I look at are what what colours is the most popular colour of curtains and cushions at the moment.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was just about to ask.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: What's the number one house colour paint?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and what's the colour of the foundation?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: So they're using raw timber, they're using colour bar.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because then what will you do?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's not rocket science, you process pictures that work within those environments because they're the people buying photographers that are not going to buy you work.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: So go to it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Go to Kmart and go to IKEA and look at what colours they're selling.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: Just on trends.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Selling the cheapest versions of them, and then make a print that looks in those colours, and people will fight over it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: I will say though, Ken and probably Mark Gray, and Mark Gray is quite incredible.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like in uh he's got his galleries are beautiful, the way he presents his work, the way he does everything is top-notch.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the industry should be you know behind him as well.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: But Ken and Mark are similar in the way that the saturation colours, so they don't always fit with the house.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: But they've marketed themselves in a way that they you know and can dunk and exceed it or grey.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or Mark Grey was obsessed.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: But but this day it is, like, I mean, like I've just finished building a house and moved into it, and every house is kind of like a Hampton, so and it's it's quite bright and muted tone.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: So a photo like Ken's or Mark's, or even yours, because you you've got some um real nice landscape punchy colours as well, would fit into a place like that because everything else Will go with it.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's tight.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then becomes so anything that's old is newer kid.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then so either lack of a better way.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it actually will fit.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: So in the in the bike.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: A bit of like um kiosk, you know, a bit of status thing to say you probably go to Ken Duncan on the wall.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it is.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what they built is a brand.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's not him, it's a brand.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't have a Ken Duncan, but I've got a Glen.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: I do, yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: I've got the five kookaburrows.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I got asked the other day, because that was shot on a tour, right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: With another lovely bike who I don't I won't mention.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, I um I was taking the photos on a tour with five cuckoo bars in the tree.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: So everyone else on the tour got the picture, and this other person.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so some lady got a picture of me and bought it.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I get an email the other day saying, um, I just want to know, you've titled this, numbered it, and signed it.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Can you verify that you actually took the photo?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because some other person has told me it's their photo.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like the five hookgirls in the tree.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I have the picture because other people sound for show.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: And three, I think two or three of the people that are on the tour means in the Sydney Easter Show Awards because they got the same picture.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it won the Sydney Easter Show Awards.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it's an interesting thing.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: So you got all these photographers taking the same moment in time.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: No one owns that.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was just a big one.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: But we can all do what we want with it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I did those things this through COVID because I was struggling like everyone.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they didn't know.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was like a magic idea.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: It went mental.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that was another notepad.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Have a notepad beside your bed.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: 3 a.m.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: for some reason.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: You wake up.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I come up with ideas 100 for a hundred, hundred prints, a hundred dollars, away you go.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you know the funny thing about like what I don't know if it's oversharing, but that when I saw that photo, because my wife and I were up and are whether we go for a third child.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and um so we had five in the in the in the house.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw that and we were more leaning towards, yeah, we will.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw that going, that's a sign.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And because the kookaburra in my family is quite a notable bird.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Notable, yeah, okay.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um without like going too much into it, when my grandfather passed away, there was a kookaburra above a tree where we laid it, and he was singing and chirping away and and stuff like that.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: So ever since then, the kookaburra has kind of been special.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when I saw that, I was like, Yeah, and we border on the spot.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I did a great photo though.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's yeah, but as I say, that and that's getting back to the tours and things like that.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's the joy of like the tour business for me.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, died in ass from COVID hit, and that was very stressful because it's a huge amount of my business was doing that.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had to pivot and come up with other ideas like that, figure out ways to get my story out, sell more pictures, because that's all I had, right?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: And thankfully it worked, and we made it through.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're on those tours sometimes and you're like, no, that particular day to see Five Spokes and share that with a group of people who were all vibing on it.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or we go to Norway or something and you're at Hamnoy and the Norway lights are going off over here.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're sitting there and people just go like losing their mind.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's like house calls.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: When do you watch Law?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on the I mean the the the scene that's going in front of you or the people's reactions to the scene?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Get everyone else out of my pictures, so I can't.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, not not no, yeah.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, you got Photoshop.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, no.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, uh look, I love seeing people um enjoy themselves and they see.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: We're in Kenya recently, and some of the days we spent two and a half hours on a dry lake bed, Namberselli National Park, Nambuselli, trying um following a herd of elephants.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: Two and a half hours, and all we do is drive in front of the elephants as they walk them straight up at sunset, drive in front of them, get out of the car, get in front of them, take photos.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: They walk past you, get low, take photos.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let them go past, drive up again, get out of the car, yeah.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Take photos, wait till they walk past, shoot them from behind.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all this stuff.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: And we're all just two cars of us, just all off our heads with excitement.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, that was one of the best afternoons of photography I've ever had.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't on my own in the middle of nowhere.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: I've had some great days like that too, but that you have to share with somebody.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Just going, oh good seas.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: People go, Oh, it's set, should I use?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you run over and you're like, Oh, just do this.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it it is nice though when you when you get on a good vibe with a group of photographers and you say it doesn't even matter if you get good photos because it's just like the experience of the day is like really awesome.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you get a good shot, it's like a massive bonus.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but knowing your tours as well, you you put in the effort for what comes after you shoot.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: So then spending the time at dinner, having a couple of drinks, and then re revisiting that experience, making it to another level.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's an experience with an experience.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: And the people that come are interesting, you know, like they're not my tours aren't the cheapest, um, and they're not the most expensive.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, the clientele, I get uh interesting people who've done stuff with their lives, and and the things I and I say this all the time, forget photography, because really at the end of the day, it's taking photos.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: But what you can learn from other people who've done stuff with their lives is is that's the other part I love.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's about learning about them and and you pick things up.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: So some really clever business people, or there might be you know savvy IT people, something along the way.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: And if you take the time to get to know them, like it's a connection.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is, and you can learn.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like whether it's and it's uh quite often I might learn something about the camera, which I'm useless that I don't understand how buttons work.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: But but you know, it's all those little things which which add up.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, not to pump not to pump you up or anything, but after knowing you for a bit, the you do really like you do take people under your wing and you and you really give them the time of day until they don't.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, I mean you've been really good for me.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I remember the first thing you said to me, you find that one artist or two artists that you really enjoy and like.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And once you get to a level where you think, okay, yeah, you're either at that level or you're near it, then you form your own.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think um Well, that's what you've done.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've I've tried.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: You've no, you have.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: You've marked you've got a style now where you can look at it and go, I know that's your photo.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: If it comes up, I don't have to say your name.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what you want.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you've done.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that comes from like people like you teaching, giving the right words at the right time when they need to hear it.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why your workshops are I think are great.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't personally been on one, but I've beat up a central co-shooting with you enough to to know.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'd go I'd go as far as saying that now the way your style developed has developed Dean, that now I see people other people post photos that are trying to look like yours.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's the influencing people's like style.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Did this this podcast is not about me, it's about Glenn.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was on a topic, and I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna bring it up because I'll see it cut through in my head.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be like, that looks exactly like Dean's picture with the wrong name there.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, have they shared his picture?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is there attempted to do the same stuff?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: Michael Kenner.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think I told you.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: You told me, and and yes, I remember this, and we're standing at your at your um in the gallery space at Erina, your first one.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: I remember, yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I remember you told me, Have you heard of this guy?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as I and because I was yeah, I think you said because you loved your black and white, yeah.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that clearly to the to this stuff.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: A whole lot of like real long exposure stuff in Japan, but simple.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: Real simple stuff.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: That kick that kicked off the direction of where I'm going now.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've had heaps of people over the years come and go and and want to do stuff and you know, maybe not understand either.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm you know, thinking they're in some kind of partnership with me, but I'm no fool.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've been around for a while and and like if you want to be in partnership with them, pay half the bills too, then maybe.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because it costs a lot to run all this stuff and it's a lot of uh happy times.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like tons of happy times, tons of great times, but it's run a business through COVID and now even now coming into this current uh economic um period is tricky and tough.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, people come and go.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: And um I even had that young Mitchell Burns when I'll talk about mutual because he came and lived with me last year.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't know about the mines and yeah.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he came down, lived with me for a little while.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: We went on some trips together and he was gonna go back to the mines, and he said, um, I said to him, Don't.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like you you'll you'll be dead.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't I mean he's too in his head.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: He and not dead dead.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, but you know what I mean.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: And he spent from eighteen to twenty-eight or whatever he was in four years.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and and not saying that I'm the reason he did that because I'm not, but he took a chance.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he produced some content, made a beautiful bill by the way, because I think they work really well together.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: But he's not necessarily doing photography, but he's built this massive following um off the back of just believing they could and following the photographic dream that he had.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a lot to be said for that.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, I mean, I'm not a safe person.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, there's trust me, there's times when you run all these things that I'm just like, fuck, I wouldn't mind just getting a normal job to be honest, and yeah, coming home on a Friday and not having to worry.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I'm also sort of entrepreneurial and I want to build things and do things.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not you, it's not you do it.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: In order to do that, there's massive risk.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think you're being a bit modest.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like this is not anything against Mitch.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know personally, but I think what you did with him was fantastic.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think he needed somebody at that time.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: He was in the next step, next and then he's met you and and and stuff.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: You've really taken him under his wing.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think and what he's done since is is fantastic.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's over in the States at the moment working with Yondi.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think I remember, yeah.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: I remember talking to Mitch like just real briefly uh back in like in in the lockdown.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I was like, oh, if his lockdown's finished, I'd love to come up the camera and see how we'll go for a shoot or something.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think he had like 300 followers or something.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: And now he's got like hundreds of thousands.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: That means when you're a buff good-looking dude, eh?
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well he is made easy.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: He's he's killed.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: But he got he's actually like Mitch is Mitchell, you if you met him, he's the most quiet humble man you've ever met.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: He's just very clever when he when the camera's pointing at him.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: And he's a good-looking rooster and his his partner's really lovely.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, I haven't met her yet, but I mean, it's just a thing.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's always a an opportunity and in for just gotta afford it.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, risk takers will have a crack at it.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: But those people that come along sometimes that they don't want to do the hard work, they just want to jump on the back and stuff.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: But those people burnt out, we'll see that.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean people with that with this Instagram thing is that you're always gonna piss people off.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's about the one thing I had to watch.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: I do that on a daily basis.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_03: But and the and the reality is a bit like what I had to learn early on in when I first had my first gallery, and I put pictures up on the wall, and it's and looking back, they probably weren't that great, to be honest.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: But you put them up on the wall, and the first person that that walked in that didn't like that, and you took it, I took it like it was like the death blow.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't like work.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: So what am I doing?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: But we all we all do that, don't we?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: But until you learn that art is subjective, you're not everyone's gonna like what you do, and it's okay.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've come to enjoy those people though, because then you go, okay, well tell me why.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I actually it's it's a building.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's like a burning period.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: You can go how do I get to this audience?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well you just even you just even accept the fact that it's subjective.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's art.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's what it is.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like going seeing the Motor Lisa.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's another thing I always say.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_03: You go see the Moda Lisa and there's two types of people.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_03: You walk in, you line up.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: One person goes, Why is it so small?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: And walks out again.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: And the other person's standing there for three hours, uh, you know, going over every single detail, brush stroke.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen the Motor Lisa?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: I got in trouble when I went there.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: When I went to the Louvre, I saw the Motor Lisa, and I thought, oh, yeah, okay, this is this is cool.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's a pretty history.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's about a size.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I walked at A3, isn't it?
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: I walked around the other side and I've just got because there's painting on the other side.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I walked back, I've gone, just so you guys know the painting on the behind better.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then they were looking at me with scary rise.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh huh.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_03: We go around there and you're like, Yes, free time.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh there.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was taking people taking selfies with it.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_03: And my wife was just sitting there, what are you doing?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, that's a thing.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's it is, mate.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's what you've got to get used to, I think, you know.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's very you mentioned the size thing where people put a uh a value on the size.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: I th one of the most interesting things I heard was when Tony Dewitt said he sold a 10 by 10 picture for like 10 grand.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was crazy.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I was like, there's the value is just like in what the actual image is.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: It is not the size of it.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's it.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it's what it's worth what someone's willing to pay for it.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's all you remember.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's that's the reality of life sometimes.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a good thing.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: For someone, for someone that's just starting out in photography, I mean, you've you've given a lot of people uh insight into how to get started and and use a camera and and take a good picture.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: But like if someone's starting out that really wants to go hell for lever and and create a business out of it, what what advice would you give them?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I would do a marketing degree, to be very honest.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I I don't know that's but I was I'll laughing too.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's I think it's true.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I was sort of thinking about that the way up.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: Games change.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: What what what are you gonna do?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: Go to a master's or or some educate yourself on photography.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you will learn a lot doing that.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: Don't get me wrong about the technical aspects and coming up with concepts and ideas.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: And let's face it, the art world in photography is far outweighs in terms of money making than what I do commercial for.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: So if you want to do masters and get into the art world, like the Tamara Deans, um Ray Fredericks, these people are in the art world.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: They're they're the ones that understand it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: Great work too.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: But in terms of you know, if you don't have that, that's a set skill, Tamara, to come up with that stuff.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's way out of my favorite.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know how she I love what she does, and I think it's incredible.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I couldn't come up with that concept.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: Barry Hearies is saying, like, I I just don't think like that.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're not in that genre, and some people are, if you're not in that genre and you wanted to do the commercial thing, yeah, all you've got to do now is learn how to market yourself.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to build work and you've got to obviously have a good eye and process your stuff well and all those sorts of things.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: But if you're wanting to talk about getting into running business, whether it's wedding, portrait, landscapes, commercial, learn how to market.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, learn how to build a brand.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: Learn how to do your own ads or because that's where the cost to run the business.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: I can pay your company$90,000 to run my ads for you can you if I spend$150,000 on ads if you want.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: But if you can do it yourself, and understand.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think that's if I was getting in now, that's what I'd be doing.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh if you wanted to make the business, yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny to say that if you can do it yourself, business, because I I I believe that now, uh, to be a photographer and be successful, like what you're saying, you have to be able to edit video, you have to be able to edit audio, you have to be good at marketing, you need to know your audience, and you have to hit so many different features to be able to get to that one point, which is the point you you do this because you love it, and then but to be able to market that and make like a living out of it, like you know that's the thing.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a whole nother ball game compared to what I think people from the outside when you're just starting.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I was probably one of them as well, where very at the beginning, like, oh that's easy, you just get up, take a picture, it's done.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's totally all the things.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: How easy is this guy's like and do running market stalls and things like that?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: People come in and say, Oh, they see your pictures from across the whole country and they're like, geez, you live a good life, don't you?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's I remember I remember being there one time.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I remember you telling me about that.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was just I was struggling so bad.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was on my la I I spent my last like hundred bucks to fill my car up to make it to this market.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and this guy's like, geez, you live such a good life.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was just thinking, like, I hope this guy buys something because I need to put fuel in there.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'd get home and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that's where it all starts, man.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: My mum used to buy my cameras.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was thank god, you know, she used to help me.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's always people to help you.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: There's always ways to get help.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I think at the end of the day, like for the first 12, 13 years that I did this, I didn't make anything at all.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then But that's a reality check you've got to do.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta be if you want to be a landscape photographer, you gotta think about the amount of work you've got to build.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: Gotta grind.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: Think about how long it takes to build that work.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then think about editing it all building your sites, keeping people up to us.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's never it is, but it but it's possible and completely doable, and there'll be people that come through that are gonna be you know, amazing.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: People that you can learn off have already done it.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you think about there's no overnight success.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, Carl and I car Carl's been what, eleven years, I've been sixteen years.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what like twenty, thirty years, twenty.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, shoot shooting, and I mean, like we've we're nowhere near the expertise that you've got, but we're still we're only just slowly getting into it now.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: Still, you've bought that's what I I hit the bullet, you know, when I bought Creative for Life, I probably bought then and I never had another job.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: So if I didn't do this, I would have had to get another job.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what my whole thing is.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not and that's for people that come and work for me sometimes and do that.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, if they have another job, yeah, and this is just another way to make a bit of extra money.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's very different than Well they're not fully committed, then I'm putting your whole It's it's like you said, it's a it's a big risk.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think maybe Dean and I are both in that period where it's like it is a big risk.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you are to drop everything and can't make that successful, like there it becomes a time period where you can do it for so long, but if you can't make yourself successful in that period, you're gonna you're gonna fall.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I always look at it, I look at it this way.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think death provides respect.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm sober, my sister went.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: If I look at everything I do now, if it all folds for whatever reason and I can't continue on.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, well, it doesn't matter.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm still here.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's the worst thing.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: You go out and have a crack and listen, you're not gonna you're not gonna go, you're not gonna go out with regret.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: Most people in life will look at it and go, if I have a girl, what if it doesn't work?
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah What if it does?
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: Or it's just like what if it does, yeah.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: What if you try and do a gala and it does work?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you try and do tours or educate people or have you printing your phone company or whatever they want to do, what if it does work?
• 1:03:50
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine that line.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: You've already said as soon as you say what if you fail.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that's all these motivational real estate agents.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sorry, real estate man, there's no I've far back.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, I get what you say.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's it' and it and it is it's all risk.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: And all the people I uh again go back to people come on tools, the amount of them that have built their own something.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and and you talk to them, it's like I have ass hanging out of my pants, I didn't have money to pull my car, I didn't have money to feed my family.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like these things happen.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: But there's always that's just part of it.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to make do with what you've got.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just did a job.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: Payoff is amazing.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: You think like if it works, yeah.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_03: Periods in time where you're just like, oh look at this, man.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just did my first commercial real uh not commercial reality, but a commercial job for a pool company with another client, of course, and all I have is two lenses because that's all I need in my landscape work.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Do you want to borrow a 24-70?
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, well, I'll just make do with what I got.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: Tell you I didn't need it, I just got closer.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'll step in.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: You make do you you get creative and that's what we're here for.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: So everything was like issued with a prime lens.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: There's none of this like, oh yeah, I can just zoom in.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_03: You'd have to like make five steps for the five.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: But you had always had the primes.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I had the Mami A7.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: Who I got off Pete Eastway.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: That was years ago.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: But but but the thing is back then the the those zooms were shit.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like the the quality of glass and those were terrible.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so that's why you shop primes.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: And we had seven well seven lenses and two bodies, and yeah, and now we're all shooting with what one camera three lenses, and that's we have fourteen to eight hundred.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: Not everything possible, yeah.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: Crazy lenses.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: I heard I heard someone years ago said to me there was a new type of lenses coming, or technology was already there.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how true it was.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: But basically these lenses liquid and it's one lens, but what it does somehow they were gonna electrically charge the fluid to change the viscosity of the fluid to let it zoom in or out.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it changes the magnification.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that was some technology that was apparently something.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you could have one lens and zoom into 3000.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: That is awesome.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: Just by changing the It's all weather good until it breaks.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like everything.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: I've broken a lot of stuff, so I'll keep buying that camera.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: That lens.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, I smashed my I smashed my camera carry Gini.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: That was recent, wasn't it?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_03: 100 F down the waterfall.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, short.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: I've pushed myself down with it though.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_03: Went to Charles because it was sliding down on my tripod.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_03: Still did you say it?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's still sort of worked.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: But but I got it out.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well and that's why people we get it shorts.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're in Taz.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_02: We went to uh like a little spot in Cradle Mountain.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_02: The locals got slippery ass five.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I had I had my like um rock spikes and it was still slippery.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember slipping, and my I I like my bag was open.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: I had to like slaughter open, move walking, trying to get to the next spot.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_02: I slipped and my 1424 rolled down the rocks and just fell on this little pad right next to the water and just didn't go in.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh yeah.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, does that still work?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it was perfect.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with it.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was smashed Ace.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: I smashed the one.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: The first Fuji one I had, the 50, 50 S.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I was in Mongolia and I was helping people at sunset and I was setting up my tripod and I went over to help a lady and the winds picked up and it just went.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: See you later.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: Smashed it.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I spent the last part of Mongolia trying to take photos.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: Couldn't look through viewfinder, so I used the screen and I was And that that'd be foreign for you because I know you're like you like the old school for you.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love looking through the viewfinder.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: I hate that.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do you find the EVS, the EVF versus your the old mirror?
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, I love it.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: You love it?
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: The Fuji one's good though.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: I found it like from back when the first generation like mirrorless came out.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was like looking into like this pixelated.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: It looked like what's what's it Minecraft?
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, look at it.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: Minecraft threw the screen on it.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was like flicker like this.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: Fuji's amazing.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_03: But the I'm not just saying that.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: They've really good.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: Even being able to like I was in our um canyon the other day and um flipping the screen out and flat and then being able to like hang out of the car like a just.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: And we're also getting like a monopod with a cable and being able to reach that.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_03: So when an animal comes close, you can get super wide and just go child underneath the color.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_03: Jeez, that in Hawaii.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you can see it all because you can fold screens back.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to like I like my camera, but damn, I do get jealous of that food whether you rip that thing out or what?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna say like the food you had, but like it's the bus scene bag-owned.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm obviously affiliated with them.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't You're not gonna work if you don't believe it.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I must don't work with people.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's if I've had tripods and shit sent to me or bags and if it's shit, I'm not gonna it's yeah, what's the point?
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_03: This camera and all I care about.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_03: The camera's great, but the print and the file and those prints means I find that like I almost don't want to edit the files.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like the the JPEG itself is enough to you can only just shoot the large JPEG, never do an edit ever again.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'd be stoked, you know what I mean?
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I had that luxury.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's the dynamic range in it is is out of terror.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: You can shoot s like s slightly off center from the sun, straight into the light, and then expose everything in one frame and nothing's blown highlights or anything.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's unbelievable.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_01: If someone can create me a filter that blocks out all background, I'll be like, how about I don't have to edit?
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And uh just on that note, uh we'll we'll start wrapping it up now.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Where where can people find your work, Lynn?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm on Instagram live most mornings.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm having my breakfast.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Doing my regular line.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like you go live, yeah.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Kim China regularly, you go to way short if you push live there.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, I just probably my website really.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_03: I do do stuff on Insta and Facebook, but yeah.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_03: But you your photographs originally on your website.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're all there, and then you can look up photo workshops.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um hopefully keep an eye on aperture.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: We'll definitely be we'll be spiriting that here because I'm a believer in that in Aperture.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm all for that.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_03: We build a massive believe it or not, it was a beers conference in the Southern Hemisphere, which I was super proud of in two years.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't anything else really, but it's good to say, isn't it?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's good and it's good to be in the people that means it resonated with people.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a matter of building on it.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But it's good to have a conference that wasn't just about like a brand release thing.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's wrong.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was nothing about that.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and some of the brands don't want to support it.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Probably because I don't I shot myself in the foot and that if I if a brand wants to support it and I don't have a shooter that shoots that brand, why would they support it?
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's been the problem for me.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't pick people based on the county that they use.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Let's face it, some of them they might not be on the for this to work, they have to be of a certain mill, you know, they have to be up there.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So um but anyway.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And photo workshops couldn't re recommend them if more either.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're they're if I was gonna go on one, that's where I'd go.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be fun.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Next year's gonna be good.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for joining us today, Glenn.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's been been great.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for it to see you again.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, both.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for doing this.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for really pleasing for having you.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And mostly thank you everyone for listening, and we'll catch you on our next episode.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: See ya.