Latest / Story Magic / 82 - Overthinking vs. thinking something through

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82 - Overthinking vs. thinking something through · Story Magic

2:28
Emily: Hey, writers.
2:28
Emily: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
2:32
Rachel: I'm Rachel.
2:33
Emily: And I'm Emily.
2:34
Rachel: And today we're talking about overthinking.
2:37
Emily: My favorite.
2:38
Rachel: We're going to overthink this entire episode.
2:41
Rachel: It's going to be great.
2:43
Rachel: This came this.
2:44
Rachel: We're talking about overthinking because it actually came from a listener question.
2:49
Rachel: So if you don't know if you are a listener of the podcast and you have a writing question or a process question or a mindset question, whatever it is, you can email it to us@podcastoldenmayediting.com and put podcast question in the subject line.
3:04
Rachel: You can ask us what challenge you're dealing with, and then we will talk about it eventually on the podcast.
3:10
Rachel: So here we are.
3:11
Rachel: This is a listener question that I'm going to read from Shuna.
3:16
Rachel: A recent newsletter included this line.
3:19
Rachel: Where might you be blocking your subconscious with overthinking?
3:22
Rachel: I am an overthinker and find it difficult to know when I'm thinking something through versus overthinking it.
3:30
Rachel: My husband, also a fiction writer, constantly tells me I'm overthinking something, but I'm not sure what that means in reality.
3:38
Rachel: I suspect there's a continuum between thinking something through and overthinking, as they no doubt exist on the same axis.
3:45
Rachel: I was wondering if you had any advice on how to identify overthinking and what to do about it.
3:50
Rachel: Well, do we ever.
3:54
Rachel: As an overthinker myself, chronic overthinkers.
3:57
Rachel: As chronic overthinkers.
3:58
Rachel: Can't wait to talk about this.
4:00
Rachel: This is so good.
4:03
Emily: It's so good.
4:05
Emily: Where to start?
4:07
Rachel: Okay, so I am an overthinker.
4:10
Rachel: I also am neurodivergent, and I have adhd, and so I feel like I never stop thinking about anything ever.
4:16
Rachel: And it's exhausting.
4:18
Rachel: So, Shuna, I feel you here.
4:20
Rachel: I see you, and it's okay.
4:24
Rachel: It is okay.
4:26
Rachel: I think I went through, um, a lot of okay.
4:31
Rachel: There's.
4:32
Rachel: I think.
4:32
Rachel: I think the mindset side of this is like, there is a reason for your overthinking.
4:37
Rachel: What is it?
4:38
Rachel: Because it's not just, like, the nature of.
4:41
Rachel: You're thinking about the same thing in circles.
4:43
Rachel: It's you're thinking about the same thing in circles because of a reason.
4:47
Rachel: For me, that reason was perfectionism, fear of failure, rejection.
4:53
Rachel: Like, whenever I find myself in an overthinking pattern, it's usually because I'm afraid.
4:58
Rachel: Afraid of something and.
5:00
Rachel: Or I'm afraid to make a decision because I'm afraid of something.
5:04
Rachel: So I. This was.
5:07
Rachel: This was so me.
5:09
Rachel: And like, down to what, how to describe something.
5:13
Rachel: You know, I've talked about that on the podcast before where, like, I used to take.
5:17
Rachel: I used to get so frustrated, like, trying to describe something.
5:21
Rachel: But then this also used to be me when I would, like, try to plot and, like, could not decide on a plot for my book, and I would just go round and round and round and nothing would ever work and I would hate it all.
5:34
Rachel: And ultimately, it was not the overthinking that was the problem.
5:38
Rachel: So I'm saying, like, your brain is not the problem here.
5:42
Rachel: It's some other fear that you're having that's probably causing the overthinking, and that's what you need to explore.
5:49
Rachel: Like, it could be different.
5:51
Emily: It could.
5:51
Rachel: Like, as a person with adhd, the overthinking happens for me all the time.
5:56
Rachel: But the reasons I'm overthinking are always slightly different.
5:59
Rachel: But I do have to, like, check in with myself of, like, what's.
6:03
Rachel: Why am I doing this?
6:03
Rachel: What's the fear?
6:05
Rachel: Like, what am I afraid of?
6:05
Rachel: Most recently, rejection.
6:10
Rachel: Because my second book is about to come out in a month and I find myself overthinking into this degree again of, like, am I doing enough?
6:16
Rachel: Have I found everything?
6:19
Rachel: You know, like, all those questions that are like a fear of failure, a fear of.
6:24
Rachel: A fear of rejection.
6:26
Rachel: And then once I, like, identify, okay, here's really what's going on on the deeper side, then I'm able to, like, put things into perspective and make a decision or have a conversation about it with a trusted loved one or, like, move forward in my ambiguity.
6:46
Rachel: I think that's also something I learned how to do is just, you're not going to have all the answers and sometimes you just have to wade forward knowing I don't have the answers.
6:58
Emily: Yeah, that's like.
7:00
Emily: That's such a big part of it.
7:01
Emily: I feel like I'm trying to find.
7:03
Emily: I read a quote and I can't find it.
7:05
Emily: Oh, here it is.
7:07
Emily: So this morning I was reading.
7:09
Emily: It's called 101 Essays that Will Change the Way youy Think by Brianna Weist.
7:14
Emily: And I read this quote and I was like, oh.
7:19
Emily: And I don't know that I agree with her that, that this is always true, but I think it can be true.
7:25
Emily: And it is definitely true for me because a lot of my overthinking comes from anxiety because I struggle with anxiety.
7:32
Emily: And she said And I think the reason I have that caveat is I think anxiety can come from a lot of different places.
7:40
Emily: And I think she states this as if this is the only place.
7:42
Emily: And I don't think that that's true.
7:43
Emily: But she says that recognize that anxiety stems from shame.
7:46
Emily: It is the idea that who you are or what you are doing is not right, therefore eliciting a rush of energy designed to help you fix or change it.
7:56
Emily: And I was like, oh, that hits home because I think there's.
8:01
Emily: Right, there's.
8:01
Emily: There can be this fear that if you don't think something through enough, and by that, in writing, we mean think it through to the point where you have the right answer.
8:11
Rachel: Yeah, right.
8:12
Emily: Then you know your book will be wrong or you're going to fail or you won't be good enough or, you know, like.
8:17
Emily: Like it's this.
8:18
Emily: It's this not good enough narrative that can, at least for me in my over.
8:23
Emily: Overthinking is usually at the core of it, this fear that, like, it's all going to be wrong and I'm going to fail and I'm, you know, not going to be a good writer and I'm not going to be enough.
8:34
Emily: And I think that that can be especially pervasive with, you know, writing novels, because we.
8:41
Emily: We can't get it right the first Dr. And so I do think there is this.
8:49
Emily: This continuum, right, between overthinking and thinking something through.
8:54
Emily: And I would say that when you are trying to identify if you're overthinking, a lot of it comes down to what Rachel was saying about, like, what is underlying it and what it feels like.
9:05
Emily: Because, like, yesterday, for instance, I was working on my new project, my new secret book, and I was having so much fun just, like, thinking through the world building, right?
9:15
Emily: And, like, thinking through how do all these pieces work together?
9:19
Emily: And, like, what could happen?
9:22
Emily: And I would say, right, that's thinking through something.
9:24
Emily: Thinking through what the world is going to look like.
9:26
Emily: And it was fun.
9:27
Emily: It felt fun.
9:28
Emily: It felt exploratory.
9:30
Emily: It felt like I was, you know, piecing things together.
9:32
Emily: And that feels very different than when I get to a point where I start to overthink something and it starts to feel bad.
9:41
Emily: It starts to feel like shame, like fear.
9:44
Emily: Like, I'm.
9:44
Emily: This isn't right.
9:45
Emily: I'm not going to get this right, right?
9:47
Emily: And I start to spiral into negative emotions that are associated with that thinking.
9:52
Emily: And I would say that that is probably when you start to step into the overthinking category.
9:57
Emily: And when it comes to writing, I think the most important thing to do at that point in time is to start doing instead of thinking, right?
10:03
Emily: To start drafting, to start putting ideas down, to start taking action instead of continuing to think.
10:11
Emily: Because it's in the action that we're going to actually find the answers of our story.
10:15
Emily: Right.
10:15
Emily: You can't figure out what your story really is about until it's over, though you've written the draft, right?
10:19
Emily: You can't get the answers until you make all the holes.
10:23
Emily: Right.
10:24
Emily: And then you can find the answers to fill them.
10:26
Emily: But you have to make the holes first.
10:27
Emily: Right.
10:27
Emily: And so action is where you're going to find answers, which for someone like me, is really stressful.
10:32
Emily: I hate that.
10:34
Emily: But it's just reality, right.
10:36
Emily: When it comes to writing.
10:38
Emily: So.
10:39
Emily: Yeah.
10:39
Emily: So in terms of advice on how to identify it, I would.
10:41
Emily: I would look.
10:42
Emily: Look in your body.
10:43
Emily: Look for what it feels like as you're thinking stuff through.
10:47
Emily: And then as for what to do about it, just start taking action.
10:51
Emily: Start taking action and moving outside of the thinking and into the doing and see what comes to you.
10:57
Rachel: Yeah. And I think part of that for me is like, brain dumping, like, word vomiting out everything that I'm.
11:07
Rachel: That's swirling around in my head to another person that I trust.
11:12
Rachel: So, Shuna, you mentioned your husband.
11:14
Rachel: That could be a good resource.
11:16
Rachel: It also could be, like, another writer friend.
11:19
Rachel: But ultimately, like, you want someone who can listen.
11:25
Rachel: I think you're looking for someone who can, like, listen without judgment.
11:29
Rachel: Because many, many times I'm in a place where I can make the decision if I can just make sense of what's going through my head.
11:37
Rachel: But it takes me some time to organize all those thoughts because they are nonstop and they are, like, just.
11:45
Rachel: They get.
11:45
Rachel: Can get so knotted inside my head.
11:47
Rachel: So once I, like, say them out loud and someone else is like, oh, okay, cool.
11:52
Rachel: Then I'm like, all right, I know what I'm doing.
11:53
Rachel: Like, so I. I would want you to feel comfortable talking about that to someone and also being like, I know I'm overthinking right now.
12:01
Rachel: I just need to get it out.
12:02
Rachel: Because there's nothing wrong with how your brain.
12:08
Rachel: I just feel like both of us have said, whether it's anxiety, whether it's neurodivergence, whether it's some other thing going on in your brain chemistry, the brain is not the problem.
12:18
Rachel: It's something else that you can explore or, like, sit with how it's feeling, or, like, take the shame and judgment away.
12:26
Rachel: From being like, I'm thinking too much.
12:29
Rachel: Oh, no, I'm doing it wrong.
12:30
Rachel: You know, like, we don't need to be shaming the process of overthinking, but being aware, building that awareness is really important to be like, I can't stop this.
12:41
Rachel: And there might be something else that I'm worried about.
12:44
Rachel: It might have nothing to do with this choice.
12:46
Rachel: It might have something else to do with it.
12:49
Rachel: And then overthink in that direction.
12:53
Emily: Yeah, and I think, too, like, I really like what you said, Rachel, about how you might need to talk it through or, like, get it outside of your head.
13:02
Emily: And I think that can be really helpful.
13:05
Emily: Like, I am not a verbal processor, and it actually stresses me out a lot to try to explain something to someone.
13:13
Emily: So I have to word vomit onto a document and, like, kind of.
13:16
Emily: Then it's out of my head and I can visually see it and start to, like, move pieces around and be like, okay, does this actually make sense?
13:22
Emily: Am I overthinking it?
13:22
Emily: You know, like, and try to put that.
13:24
Emily: And then sometimes I'll share that with someone so they can see what I've sort of worked out on the page.
13:30
Emily: And so I think, you know, that, like, paying attention to how you best process your thoughts and, like, utilizing that is also something that could be unique to people and important to kind of know and understand about yourself as you're working through this.
13:48
Rachel: I think.
13:49
Rachel: Last note that I have is the part of this question, too, which I think we've touched on tangentially.
13:57
Rachel: But, like, what is overthinking?
13:57
Rachel: And I think I really loved how you said, when it gets into that negative side of emotions rather than fun, when it gets to, like, for me, it literally just feels like I'm speaking spinning my tires in the mud.
14:13
Rachel: And, like, there, it doesn't matter.
14:15
Rachel: Like, I. I know logically, the more I think about this, I'm not getting anywhere.
14:21
Rachel: But, like, emotionally, I can't stop thinking about it.
14:24
Rachel: Like, that's the degree to overthinking something.
14:29
Rachel: Like, feeling like that, for me, I feel like butterflies in my chest.
14:34
Rachel: Like, not like I feel like my chest get warm.
14:37
Rachel: I feel like.
14:40
Rachel: I feel like I get.
14:41
Rachel: I get really frustrated when I'm overthinking because I just can't find, you know, what I.
14:47
Rachel: What I need in that moment.
14:50
Rachel: So I think this is going to feel different for every person.
14:53
Rachel: But that's why I love so much what you said about, like, understanding how you're reacting to this train of thought or this problem, whatever it is.
15:02
Rachel: That can help you identify it.
15:07
Rachel: I think it's a blurry line when it shifts from thinking something through to overthinking.
15:13
Rachel: Especially if you've been taught your whole life that it's not safe to make an action until you know exactly.
15:19
Rachel: You know exactly what you're doing.
15:20
Rachel: Yeah, the line's blurry, but I think inside your body, you can feel the shift.
15:27
Rachel: You can totally feel the shift.
15:29
Rachel: Yeah.
15:30
Emily: And, like, the reality when it comes to books, right.
15:34
Emily: Is the stakes are so low.
15:36
Emily: Right.
15:36
Emily: The stakes are so low.
15:38
Emily: And so it's so, like, I would say if you're trying to figure out if you're overthinking or just thinking something through, you're probably overthinking.
15:45
Emily: Like, if you're asking that question, you're probably just overthinking it.
15:47
Emily: Because the reality is that you just.
15:50
Emily: You can just make a decision.
15:51
Emily: You can just make a decision today, and then tomorrow you could change your mind.
15:55
Emily: Right?
15:55
Emily: You can make decision today to do something, and then a week from now, you could throw it all out.
16:00
Emily: Right.
16:00
Emily: But, like, you'll have more clarity.
16:02
Emily: I just feel like when it comes to thinking something through and overthinking in, like, our personal lives, and it has to do with, like, the people that are in our responsibility and, like, other things like that, Right.
16:14
Emily: Then it's a different question.
16:15
Emily: But when we're talking about books, y'all, the stakes are so low.
16:18
Emily: It's just a goddamn book.
16:21
Rachel: I love it.
16:22
Rachel: No, but friends, really, like, seriously, take a step back.
16:26
Emily: I say this by somebody who overthinks her books all of the time.
16:29
Emily: Both of us constantly remind, like, I'm constantly writing in my journal, it's just a goddamn book.
16:34
Emily: Nobody cares.
16:35
Emily: The world will not end over this book.
16:37
Rachel: Yes, we say this all the time, and I invite you to keep saying this, too.
16:42
Rachel: I can't remember if we said this on the podcast, but we say it in a lot of our business conversations.
16:47
Rachel: Um, we were once told by another editor, which, who we adore and love, there are no emergencies in publishing.
16:55
Rachel: And, like, feel the same way about this.
16:58
Rachel: There's no emergencies in making in publishing.
17:01
Rachel: There's no emergencies in writing a book.
17:03
Rachel: Like, take a deep breath.
17:06
Emily: Take a deep breath.
17:07
Emily: You're probably overthinking it.
17:08
Rachel: Take a deep breath.
17:10
Rachel: Um, but allow that for me.
17:12
Rachel: That, like, gave me so much freedom to experiment because there are no consequences, really, of making a choice that you end up changing.
17:21
Rachel: Like, it's not a big deal.
17:23
Emily: Time. Time is not real.
17:26
Emily: You're not.
17:28
Emily: Time cannot Be wasted.
17:32
Rachel: I. When I got to the point where, like, I truly felt that in my body of, like, it's okay for me to have a way more fun with this than I am, all these overthinking things, like, eased.
17:45
Rachel: Eased so much.
17:46
Rachel: They don't go.
17:47
Rachel: They don't go away because I can't ever stop thinking about anything but it.
17:51
Rachel: Like, I can still be like, oh, let me try it, and let's see how it goes.
17:56
Rachel: And if it doesn't work, I am not a failure.
17:58
Rachel: I can just try something different.
18:01
Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:03
Emily: I feel like that's the heart of this shoot.
18:05
Emily: And, like, I hear you.
18:06
Emily: It's so easy to, like, get our.
18:09
Emily: For our bodies to get really wrapped up in something and, like, make our minds keep racing about it and the.
18:17
Emily: You know, just pay attention to how your body feels.
18:19
Emily: If your body feels like shit, don't, like, stop.
18:24
Emily: Like, stop.
18:24
Rachel: Pause.
18:25
Rachel: Yes, pause.
18:26
Emily: Pause.
18:27
Emily: Or, like, pause the thinking and, you know, start the doing or pause and take a rest.
18:32
Emily: Right.
18:32
Emily: Like, there's just no reason to be spinning your wheels and feeling like crap over a book for any elongated period of time.
18:43
Rachel: Yes, you.
18:45
Rachel: I think we have a whole episode on, like, how writing sucks sometimes.
18:49
Emily: So that was literally.
18:51
Emily: Now I want to go re.
18:52
Emily: Listen to that because that was me overthinking everything.
18:54
Emily: So if you want to go actively, see Rachel, talk me through overthinking in real time.
19:01
Rachel: Episode 66. Everyone writing sucks ass.
19:06
Rachel: That's what we called it, that episode.
19:09
Rachel: It's not always fun.
19:10
Emily: Emily's mental breakdown.
19:15
Rachel: Happens to the best of us.
19:16
Rachel: It's just a little mendy be and then we move on.
19:21
Rachel: Everybody has a menti be.
19:23
Emily: Sometimes me, all the time, once a month.
19:28
Rachel: Just checking in.
19:30
Rachel: Ah, great question.
19:32
Rachel: Thank you, Shuna.
19:34
Emily: Thank you.
19:34
Emily: Shoot us so much because you're definitely not alone.
19:37
Emily: Like us writers, the reason.
19:39
Emily: The reason we write is because there's worlds in our head.
19:42
Emily: There's people in our head talking to us.
19:44
Emily: We are constantly thinking about this stuff.
19:47
Emily: Crazy.
19:48
Emily: And it's a. It's a hard line to recognize.
19:50
Emily: But once you start to recognize it and, like, we're through it and, like, embrace the fun, then that's when.
19:56
Emily: That's when your sustainable writing life starts to form.
19:59
Emily: And it can be so.
20:01
Emily: It can be so fun.
20:03
Emily: Alrighty.
20:04
Emily: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
20:09
Rachel: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
20:13
Rachel: After seven days of email magic you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
20:19
Emily: Link in the show notes.
20:20
Emily: We'll see you there.
20:21
Rachel: Bye.