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E13 Improving Remote Team Communications with Phil Gibbens-Balaquidan · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast, where business owners learn from each other as they're going along. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. ⁓ joined by Phil Gibbons-Ballackeden, ⁓ like any business owner, he's growing his business, which is Jason and Philip's serviced accommodation. And he's in the middle of fixing things, growing things that really matter. So, ⁓ welcome to the podcast. Thank you for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, please like and comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. 60 % of our audience have not done that yet and these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. Phil: Thank you, Granger, it's great to talk to you. Granger Forson: Awesome. So let's go into Act 1, all about your business. So in plain English, what does your business do? join the conversation as a guest ⁓ or you a hurdle question for us to tackle instead, ⁓ Phil: So we manage Airbnbs or short properties that are advertised for short stays. We cover Cheltenham, Gloucester, the wider Cotswolds and we've got a couple of units that we look after in Wales too. So we basically everything for our owners. So from marketing to advertising to ⁓ strategy ⁓ then to guest liaison looking after the guests, communicating with them, ⁓ sure they can get into the properties smoothly. Granger Forson: do reach out us at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com Now, make this a really successful week and we'll see you next time. Cheers! ⁓ Phil: And then once they're in, giving them a great experience, making sure they're happy, looked after any problems dealt with promptly. And ⁓ then the cleanup after them. So they leave and we have to obviously reset the properties, make sure they're beautiful, deal with any maintenance or damage that sometimes could be left behind. it's all ready for the next guests. And handle the finances for our owners and deal with, ⁓ know, monthly so they can see their income. And most of our owners are completely hands off. ⁓ We try and flexible to some. ⁓ owners do like to be involved and hands on some owners actually live in the properties themselves sometimes like next door as it's an annex or something. But we generally leave our owners want to be hands off and leave everything to us. And then we pass them their income each month after you know, deductions. And that's what we do. Granger Forson: Wow, ⁓ complete full service ⁓ for them so they don't have to do anything. I like that hands off. ⁓ fantastic. Yes, really interesting. I look forward to discussing more where that came from and develop that. So ⁓ mentioned them already sort of, but ⁓ do you help and what are they typically dealing with and why they come knocking on your door? Phil: Yeah. So there's a number of clients we help. I mean, they're all landlords, I guess. might have different reasons for needing to short let their property. ⁓ may be going away for a year. They may have bought a holiday let for pure investment. People pay some big money, I suppose, in the Cotswolds. It's a very, very fast growth area for ⁓ stay holidays and people pay big bucks. we most of our owners are people who have a spare property or a property they don't live in all the time and they don't want to leave it there empty, being uncared for. So we give them some income on the back of it. It can be for other reasons too. Some of our owners are looking to sell their properties and we've, if you have a long-term tenant that can make it harder to sell, especially with the renters reforms that are coming in this year. So doing what we do is really, flexible. You can turn it off and turn it on anytime you like. can be advertised for sale at the same time. And it can trickle in, trickle income through to an owner right up until exchange and completion. And actually it can help itself because if it's beautifully dressed and cared for, per, know, guests ready for when viewings happen, it's like a home, ⁓ which can help as well. So ⁓ they're generally the main we help. Granger Forson: Wow, many different elements of why people wouldn't do that. I like that idea of ⁓ a show home. ⁓ What an amazing service and they get money from it as well. ⁓ Phil: ⁓ so for property that's ever tried to advertise for sale with us that hasn't sold before has ended up selling. ⁓ And we think that can make a massive difference. So, ⁓ it's a fantastic service. Obviously we don't like to ⁓ lose a that's doing well, but we like to help people. if ⁓ our, marketing the property sale alongside what we do helps it sell, then, you know, we're more than happy to be involved. Granger Forson: So when did it start? What was that original spark? Phil: Well, I would, before I, Jason and Philip service accommodation, along with my husband, Jason, we run it together. ⁓ was a letting agent and Jason was a primary school teacher. I was a letting agent in Chatham already. And before that, had a retail background. I was managing some lots of shops, big shops in London, work for TK max two for many years. and that experience sort of led me to where I do now, cause that's lots of relevant skills there. But when I was an estate agent, became a letting agent. So I became quite strong at looking after Landlord's homes with that experience. I kind of got a little bit disappointed with how tenants were looking after my own properties. I have a couple of my own buy-to-lets that bought a long time ago ⁓ for reasons, pension planning, that sort of thing. ⁓ And started Airbnb-ing them instead. Basically off the back of a very good friend who was doing it already and said, Phil, you should try this. It's I love it. It's great. make more money. Your properties are better cared for. He forgot to tell me how much cleaning was involved. So it is quite, ⁓ know, for Lannels looking for less hassle, ⁓ term letting isn't, isn't a pathway to necessary less hassle. But soon as I started doing it, ⁓ had spend a bit of money, obviously furnishing it, making it look ⁓ nice and Granger Forson: Hahaha Phil: That was eight years ago and I was blown away and that property is still open. was my first two bed in my first Airbnb. It's on Presby road here in Cheltenham. It's not particularly an exciting location, but it does really well. So eight years on and suddenly I was, you know, making one and a half thousand pound profit versus a hundred quid profit a month. So suddenly it's wow. You know, I was very hands on. was doing all the cleaning myself, the washing and things. So, you know, obviously if you're going to get a housekeeping company to do that that's going to really eat into the income. But I wanted to do it all myself. And I was just really liked having the control over my own property, whereas, I could ask a bad guest to leave and they would have to respect my wishes. ⁓ Whereas a tenant, you know, you to sort of take them to court these days and it's really difficult and that can be really stressful as a homeowner. I was really, prideful about my own properties. So I did that. I bought another just before the pandemic. And And that went very well as well. Obviously we had the hiccup of the pandemic and, then I did another, so I had three, and a friend in the same block as the one in Presby road asked me to help me with theirs. They didn't want a long-term rent and they wanted to Airbnb. And that was my first managed unit that's still open today, seven years on, and it does really well. and it sort of from there really. while I was a letting agent, my, ⁓ good friend who ran the estate agency. I scale it up. He could see there was a demand for that. was not something he wanted to do as a letting agent. So I to scale slowly and Jason got involved first, ⁓ left teaching did it full time when we got to about sort of eight, 10 units. And then about 18 months ago, we got big enough that I felt that it was time to move on And I sort of fell out of fell of love, a little bit with long-term. tenancies, found it, I found it much harder to control a tenancy versus controlling a short term unit. And really my passion lies with looking after somebody's house as home. Yes, I want to give them a great income and, you know, great reviews, but ultimately I want to take care of some, take care of their property and you can do that far better, I think in the short term space and the long term rental space. So yeah, so 18 months on, we're still growing. we're up to 72, 73 units tomorrow. And I sort of going to get to about 100 and then probably park because I think I really want it to be me looking after these properties, very personal service. And I think I can do 100 with a great team around me, which is, know, be far the biggest operator in the area. And I don't want to redo anything more that will dilute my service really, because that's where it can get reached. So that's where I'm at. Granger Forson: Mmm, fantastic. And what's really interesting in the way you've described all of that is that real passion, that passion you have for looking after someone else's accommodation, looking out of that property ⁓ ⁓ it in tip top condition and delivering an amazing service on top of that through these short term lets. that's your business, I can see, has grown and been successful because ⁓ you that passion to make that happen. So fantastic. ⁓ So, why do then your customers pick you? I mean, that's a rapid growth that you've been going through and I know, because you and I are in a networking group, you listed four in just one week or something. I was just amazed. So why are your customers picking you? Phil: the, wider market, people looking for short stays in the area, you know, it can be for many reasons, but it's a hugely growing sector. It's massive. Airbnb dominated the market for very, for a long time, but their actual market share isn't as dominant as it used to be. ⁓ Other players have come ⁓ Booking.com has massively grown a few years. ⁓ You see the marketing they do everywhere. VRBO is the new one on the block, which is doing incredibly well too. there's more to come. It's a very enticing space. Gone are the days where you go into a high street travel agent and book a holiday. ⁓ days you book on Airbnb. And in fact, travel agents that do exist still book through Airbnb themselves. ⁓ really transformed landscape for stays. And this area is massive for that. People come Cheltenham and for all sorts of reasons. And there's just massive demand. you know, people generally choose an Airbnb for lots of factors. The most important one is probably price. one is probably what people say about your listing. So reviews ⁓ are important, a property that I have to list without reviews. I always to work very hard get it going and get some great reviews in. ⁓ People will not a property if people don't like it. In fact, when people are choosing an Airbnb or whatever, it's not Airbnb, it's become a verb Airbnb, but I'm talking about booking.com and all the other platforms. The time people spend choosing a property is mostly taken up by looking at and reading the reviews of the listing before they make the choice. So obviously location and how it looks. So making sure ⁓ all my listings beautiful, nice furniture, well-decorated, nice marketing photos, trying to make it stand out with exciting amenities such as... hot tubs and snooker tables and saunas and, you know, sometimes just the outside of the property is enough to draw people in because it's in a beautiful location with a lovely outlook. And then people will come. If you get the price right, marketing right, and look after guests when they do come, there's a big market out there. So luckily, business ⁓ have to worry about getting bookings too much. They seem to flow because we seem to, have happy guests. We have a fantastic team around us that really look after guests. We've structured the business so I have way of messaging guests immediately after they message us. So ⁓ feel they always have, know, it's not, it's like a hotel where you don't even have to call reception. You can just message us and we will reply generally any time of the day very quickly and help them. If someone has a problem, we will drive over and sort it. ⁓ I think that's why people book. If you look at the more negative reviews of other holiday let companies, it's often beautiful property, great stay. ⁓ but this went wrong and I couldn't get ahold of anybody because it was 10 o'clock at night. So I think that's really important. I want to look after guests too. So I don't want to have bad reviews because they couldn't reach us. So, so yeah. ⁓ Granger Forson: Brilliant, yes, passion's coming through there, but it's now embedded the business and the structures that you want to make sure your guests are having an amazing time. And I love that almost instant response to them and you'll actually drive out and help. So the growth you've through, ⁓ while leads are that you need to generate for your clients to make sure people come and stay, how have you gone about then generating the leads that you need for the new... businesses that you want ⁓ Phil: So, far I haven't really had to try too hard. It's of just, ⁓ fell my lap being ⁓ in a state agent, letting agent in Cheltenham for, ⁓ eight years really before becoming full-time, self-employed with and Philip. I knew a lot of people in town and ⁓ built up reputation of caring for landlords properties and doing the right thing, dealing with stuff, know, when things wrong, cause that's the test. That's always the test of a company is. how you deal with something when it goes wrong, because stuff goes wrong all the time, you can't help it. so some of my, you know, when I was a letting agent, a lot of landlords would ask me, and it was one of the motivations to Airbnb my own property, because I used to have a lot of landlords ask me, I'm thinking of Airbnb being this. And I only really feel confident in telling someone, giving them advice, if I've done it myself, if I've learned. So by Airbnb, my own property, I sort of learned that market for a few years before I worked out what went well from pricing strategy and all sorts of, tips and how to deal with what happens when a guest damages your property. You know, I needed to, before I started looking after somebody else's home, I needed to get confident. So I became confident and then the client sort of just came out, had, um, people that trusted me that I knew and gave me a chance and. And now where we are today, we get people phoning us up through our website, just from searching for us online and looking for someone that can look after their holiday let. sorts of reasons. Airbnb have also opened up a service where if you want to, if want to ⁓ find co-host, so you're going away, you want to Airbnb a house, but you can't do it hands on. You can actually find it. I'm a registered co-host on Airbnb as well. So, and there's that many people who do what I do. ⁓ Most holiday companies won't. necessarily take care of everything. They will market the property, but then they'll leave an external housekeeping company to do the day to day. And I don't like that idea personally, because if something goes wrong, in control of that. So we have a big team of housekeepers that we've recruited. They're all self-employed, but they're still ours, so to speak. And we control everything. So if an owner comes along and isn't happy with their property, they can only point the finger at me rather than me saying, well, it's a bad housekeeper or I'm really sorry that's happened. It's all on me. and then I'm in control. that's what good property management is about, is about being in of every situation, any situation that can happen. we have all sorts that happen. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Now I can really see again your passion for you talk about control, but I don't think it's control. It's that vertical integration of all the services that you do. So therefore you can take ownership of it and improve it because you can't improve something that you don't manage or organize. And that's what you can then do. You can improve it and prove it And then you deliver that amazing service, which everyone goes, yes, you need to go and speak to Jason Philip. service accommodation because they've done this amazing job in my house to keep it going and look at the money I'm generating from it as well and that's service that really people remember. So fantastic. So let's go on to act two now, the journey of your business. how became who you are today. So running a ⁓ over the you you get the highs, you get the lows. ⁓ What have some highs and lows for you and what have you learned from those times? Phil: I So I think loads for me were when things go wrong and it's the first time that's happened. We don't get things right all the time and every now and then things can wrong. The worst thing can go wrong in the Airbnb world is a guest arrives and God forbid it's been missed off the cleaning rotor. ⁓ And that has a couple of times. Absolute nightmare for me when that It happened at three o'clock in the morning one day and a guest arrived checked in at three a.m. Which is obviously a very unusual time to check in and they arrived and the property wasn't ready for them. So it's only happened, well, should never happen, but it's happened a couple of times. I can assure you all holiday let companies that look at look after a lot of properties have this problem from time to time. You know, because we deal with thousands of stays. So in those situations, I just learned how to deal with it. And it's just basically, you know, looking after the guest. Getting things sorted, giving them a free stay if it's needed to say sorry, and just putting yourself in the, in the guest shoes ⁓ to know would I expect? How would I expect that company to deal with when, they've basically screwed up? ⁓ But it's rare that happens. So those are the lows when, you know, it's always a panic ⁓ when that can happen. It's happened a handful of times. Sometimes when I on ⁓ an Airbnb and a property, the owners, maybe have different expectations of what that world involves. Guests can damage properties. break rules and will be obviously upset by that. I always, when I take on a property, always try my best to explain that ⁓ I promise that there aren't going to be problems because we really don't know who's arriving. There was a bit of screening done. like ID checking, credit card details, but we don't know who these people are turning up. so can be a challenge with owners when things go wrong and some ⁓ owners, owners, 99 % of owners will completely understand that. And most time you're quite well protected from a financial point of view. Airbnb will pay compensation if someone's damaged a property. ⁓ have credit we have damage deposits from guests. But if it goes wrong, some owners can make my life a bit harder. So I have to let go of them because I think it's not for everybody. people, imagine lots of strangers coming to your home. And some of the properties I look after are actual homes for people. They're just away for a few months or they're away for a year and it's their family home. So ⁓ they're going to come back and it might feel different. So that can be ⁓ challenges where owners become unhappy with the model. And I think at that point, sort of. I don't think Airbnb is for you, maybe a different way of doing it, but this isn't right, so let's step away from each other. it's just managing time. That's been my biggest challenge. And the biggest low is sometimes I'm working more hours than probably I should be. I mind, I love to work. Work is my happy pace. ⁓ And love what I do. When I a letting agent and managing this business, I was doing both. ⁓ That had some really tough times. I remember the trigger for me to leave my letting agent was a really, really problem stay. Jason arrived to do the changeover and basically, phoned me while I was in my office and said, I'm not doing this anymore. Phil, come and have a look at his property. ⁓ was in bit of a mess. Footprints on the wall Don't know why, but they just obviously had a and that chap. ⁓ gone straight from one property to one of my other properties. I had to ask him to leave. So I had to leave the office. had to, you know, it was quite stressful. So and I had to basically forcibly remove him. I got to arrive at the property, so to get out, you know, not staying here. I don't care. Look at what you've done at my property. Give me a bad review. I do not care here. Have your money back and go. He was very nasty fella. And I'm glad I saw the back of him. So those can be the lows and not easy things to deal with. Um, so, you know, when you fall out with a guest over a reason like that, can be quite challenging. I generally don't mind. Um, but it's just a time aspect. When that happened, I decided I had to go full time and grow that step away. those are, those are. Granger Forson: Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ mean, sometimes we a decision and it changes the trajectory of our business. What ⁓ one or decisions do you think have been aha moments for you? Phil: I guess, ⁓ just figuring out how the business works. So I had to sit down and say, well, if we're going to manage someone else's property, what does that look like? I didn't look at what other holiday let companies did. There wasn't really anyone that I could find managing things in the same way. So it's just working out how much do I charge? What's fair? ⁓ making sure it was a fair and consistent, something I'm really passionate about. I never changed my price. So ⁓ sometimes lose business because people want to deal. ⁓ I had to sit down and say, well, if we're going to manage someone else's property, what does that look like? I didn't look at what other holiday let companies did. There wasn't really anyone that I could find managing things in the same way. So it's just working out how much do I charge? What's fair? ⁓ making sure it was a fair and consistent, something I'm really passionate about. So ⁓ I sometimes lose business because people want to deal. ⁓ I charge 20 % including VAT for any any payout for to manage someone's property. Some people charge more, some people charge less. I think that's a bang in the middle. It's a very, very intense thing that we do. And I've had people with lovely properties say, someone else offered me 15 % plus VAT will you drop? And I just say, well, no, because I don't think that's fair on all my other clients. So just working out that light bulb moment. And when I, when those pieces slotted into place, Some people charge more, some people charge less. I think that's a bang in the middle. It's a very, very intense thing that we do. And I've had people with lovely properties say, someone else offered me 15 % plus VAT will you drop? And I just say, well, no, I felt like, yes, I've got a service here. And when I started getting owners being very happy with what we were doing, I like that was a really, that was a big moment because it meant we had a model. I still didn't know whether this was a scalable business where I could earn a good, a living from it was something I did firstly to look after my own property because I fell out of love with long-term rentals. Then it was to help a friend rather than, you know, make money. And then it evolved into something else. So I guess we're leaving. when I started getting owners being very happy with what we were doing, I like that was a really, that was a big moment because it meant we had a model. I still didn't know whether this was a scalable business where I could earn a good, you know, a living from it the letting well behind me and now being paid solely by doing this. was a nice moment. And knowing that we've got 70 plus clients that are happy that, that, know, we seem to be ⁓ doing good job for people and people are coming to us. That's feels, feels really ⁓ humbling actually. Cause some of the problems we look after they're worth more than a million pounds. So, and they're on our shoulders to take care of. And those owners are often overseas just leaving it to us to take care of. ⁓ Granger Forson: Hmm. ⁓ I can really see ⁓ that all came together and that thinking and that structure because come back to that passion you have of making it really successful and what that means to your clients. well, yeah, ⁓ you in business, you've had to take on people and staff, some of those you've outsourced staff because you talked about your cleaners and in a different format for them, they're contractors, but they're still part of your business. What have you learnt about growing and developing people that maybe you wish you'd learnt earlier? Phil: Uh, yeah, I mean, I'm still on that journey. is, it is now my biggest challenge as we grow is, um, my job shifts a lot more to recruitment, empowering others that work for us to deliver the standards I want and, validating those standards rather than me doing everything ourselves. Gone are the days where I'd go around with Jason and clean 10 properties before guests arrive. we used to, we don't anymore. We have a team that will clean 30 to 40 in a day or 60, um, a couple of weeks ago when everyone left it on race week. we go and check them all and feedback for the standards aren't right. it's just so blooming important, isn't it? ⁓ I am only as good as the people who I look after now. and, I've through a few, through a few new members staff that haven't lasted as, as, as long as I would have liked. It's a tough job we do. It's, ⁓ can feel uncomfortable because of way I like to structure people's time. I don't have a nine to people who work for me. Don't have a nine to five job. I give them a. This is the role we need you to do off you go. It's quite remote working. There's no office we will meet up in and you can do as many hours or as few hours as you like. So I think that can be quite uncomfortable for someone who's used to working in nine to five. So it's just generating the structures and induction plans for people that can make them feel supported. And most of all checking and making, it's really easy to fall into a habit of my job of finding the bits that have been missed in a clean or this bit of damage hasn't been noted and feeding that back rather than saying, I've just been in to check your property. Beautiful. What a, what a fantastic job you've done for us. Thank you so much. That is actually more important than the other bit, but, try and do that as much as possible because our cleaners, they are housekeepers. They were, and our property managers, they all work so hard. It's a very, very hands on job. Granger Forson: Hmm Phil: So one of the things that's always surprised me of how happy I feel our team are, when I was a manager before and working in the Letting agents as a director there, you can always get a sense of how people are feeling in an office or in an environment. And I have to say, even though cleaning toilets, mopping floors probably feels like not quite as exciting as working in an office. I sometimes feel that my cleaners have the most job satisfaction. And I just think that's because they enjoy what they do. And we try and look after them and, you know, take the stress out of everything. Cause I just don't want any, I don't like having stress in a workplace. never have, I don't want to put people under pressure, at all to, to, to do people working under pressure end up just not working well. I ⁓ find. Granger Forson: Yeah. I ⁓ ⁓ one of the conversations I have with my clients on my round tables is, you thank you 10 times a day to your staff? And you try and track that and identify that, it's really amazing. If we get one done, it's outstanding initially. ⁓ ⁓ changes the relationship and the understanding with people. And you build that camaraderie, you build that spirit. actually that does that. And I can really see that you said, you say, focus on those really successful bits. Yes, we may have missed something. We'll fix that. We'll give feedback to do that. But not a negative feedback. It's all those well-dones you ⁓ know, all need processes, we all need systems of working. ⁓ What's, give an example of something that you've changed or even removed from your business that's brought energy back to it. Phil: I guess the thing we brought in last year, which is absolutely, made a huge is before ⁓ January, one of you know, we and our property managers would be, ⁓ not only would be cleaning a property, but we'd always be always responding to guests. You'd get a ping from an Airbnb. You'd have to stop, put them up down and deal with that. ⁓ So now have two people that work for us nine to nine. All they do is sit there and respond to guest messaging. you know, that makes it instant should be instant, ⁓ when a guest, ⁓ messages and says, I'd like to book your property. Can you just tell me if this is there or whatever? Cause they, they've missed it in the details. ⁓ So that's. Enabled my team just to focus on cleaning and me as well, you know, so can park that obviously the guest problem ⁓ comes to me Through ⁓ admin and they're at what they do. They actually work out for us in the Philippines who have amazing skills and one of them to for Airbnb and absolutely brilliant brilliant brilliant people. They're as much as part of our team as anybody else, even though they work on the other side of their world and they do night shifts. ⁓ and I are actually going to go and see them in December as we want to say thank you in person to them. We are going to tie that into as a holiday too. ⁓ that was very transitive. Having virtual assistants that really ⁓ can deliver for us has been brilliant and just better, better property management software with tools really. Granger Forson: Brilliant. ⁓ that's fantastic. Yeah, I really love that. can see how that's just changed, but brought that energy and that focus back that you all needed. awesome. move on to Act 3 now, our hurdle round. So what hurdle you brought to us today for the conversation? Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a hurdle I'm still on actually, because, know, we've grown quite quickly in 18 months and, I sort of don't know, have a problem. So it's there staring at me in the face and like, wow, I'm now working like 90 hours a week again. So what do I need to do to stop that? and it's been, our model is to having property managers that look after a collection of properties, manage the day to day and. report to me there's any problems. ⁓ that changed because before it was just me managing them all, but we kind of got to about 30, 40 properties where I needed ⁓ help. ⁓ trying to, and now we've got three that each manage 20. ⁓ just to give you an idea of what a letting agent or a letting agent will have a property manager that maybe manages 200 units each. You know, it's quite a lot of properties to know about. So I want ⁓ to a really high level of focus. on each of my listings. I think that's what we owe our owners. So 20 each feels like a really good number that you can spend a lot of time in every property in most weeks. They go to them all the time and report problems. So it's just how, it's just, my role has changed. It's more about direct, sort of directing them, training them, trying to instill in them, you know, the common sense, the property management, know, there's there's no rule book for good property management. It's kind of common sense because every phone call from a guest with a problem will probably be a new problem that hasn't maybe happened before. If it has happened before, great, easy fix, but it's new stuff. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. the thing about common sense is not common until you that somebody doesn't have it. ⁓ yes, yeah. So what talked about is the of the business communication. So it's become really difficult because you're all and that you have real set hours, okay. Phil: Thank Granger Forson: So let's have a conversation around the business communication and the changes that may need to take place. you could make a big change in the next six months, we'll discuss what that might be, what would better look like in one sentence for you? Phil: So regular meetings with my team, that's what we sort of need to have really. ⁓ as I say, we're remote, so we don't have an office where we all get together. Granger Forson: Okay. But absolutely, so that's a solution. That's a solution. What is better? What would better mean for you? Because you've already mentioned about hours and amount of activity you're doing. What would better mean as an outcome? Phil: better in that, that I'm more hands those, properties can be managed directly by our property managers and Jason, I become more hands off, obviously still checking, and, popping but not finding, ⁓ things that we're unhappy with when we check. everything's running smoothly. Guests are consistent five-star reviews across the board ⁓ from our guests. and a proper day off for us because know, there's such thing as tough bus at the moment. Granger Forson: Excellent. as the business grows, because you've talked about getting to 100. that you don't lose the focus that you've got, that would be fantastic, ⁓ that still keep all those amazing five-star reviews that you get, ⁓ you less interaction on the day-to-day so you can take a day off a week and you actually ⁓ sit back see the business running itself ⁓ and you're and coordinating rather than getting involved in the day-to-day. So that's what good really means to you. Okay, so let's talk about the starting condition today. Let's pick up one of those elements. Let's talk about your interaction with property managers. how much interaction do you have them today and that in terms of energy and time for you? Phil: So we check in on the phone each day, check in just a quick phone call and probably lots of WhatsApp messaging. WhatsApp is huge for us in terms of communication. do very few emails. Most of the communication with our owners is through WhatsApp and through ⁓ management team and our cleaners. Granger Forson: Okay, what's missing? mean, absolutely, we all need communication. Every business has up-to-date communication. You've even built a brilliant communication with your clients through your ⁓ abroad. ⁓ what you think is missing then? What's not working today then ⁓ in of starting edition that you're worried about in terms communication? Phil: maybe just structure. It's just finding time where we can all have a meeting together and review how the previous week has gone. talk about any feedback that's been sent to us from guests. It's constructive that we, you know, might've been missed. so it's just finding time to sit down amongst the crazy sort of, whirlwind that our jobs entail running around and doing about 20 things at once. Granger Forson: And is your whirlwind every single day? there variations from day to day? What sort of is taking place? Phil: Different whirlwinds. Yeah, different whirlwinds. So, um, but the, the down times is generally when people are on days off. Tuesday and Wednesday are two days where there's less happening. Um, uh, so those are the, but then they end up being days off for our property managers to get some rest. Um, so it's just identifying a good time and creating that structure. So we've chosen actually, um, eight 30 or nine o'clock on a Friday morning, just before our day gets really busy. Cause Friday is our busiest day. people checking out and checking in. So when we have the most cleans needed, but that's going to be our moment to quickly catch up, ⁓ agree what everyone's doing, just checking on the plan, make sure everything's going well. And also just, you know, to pick up on anything we've noticed that needs sorting for new guests. Granger Forson: So that's a sort of tactical operational type meeting. you recognized in the earlier part of this conversation that there's those opportunities to connect, to grow together, to as a by bringing the great minds together, everybody, and making those improvements. Do you have time to add that level of ⁓ conversation into your tactical meeting? ⁓ Phil: not to be honest. that's why, we're thinking of other things we can do. Jason is really keen to do is the end of our, when everything's, anyone, everyone's ready to check in on a Friday, we just go and grab a drink at the pub or the end of the month, just to have a bit of a more of a social catch up and download and more of a gossip to catch up. But, Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Those are very important, absolutely, and it can make those happen. So how... So the growth aspect of the business, getting people together, connecting, know, humans we need to connect, we need to have that connection. already identified that brilliant that you could do that maybe once a month ⁓ have that connection meeting, bringing everybody together because you're remote and not making that happen. ⁓ But ⁓ do think is then missing ⁓ from tactical meeting ⁓ that help take the forwards to the next level? ⁓ Phil: Maybe more, maybe a Monday meeting would be really helpful if we could squeeze that in a Monday morning to review the weekend. And then there's two check-ins each week. And you know, we talk all the time as well over the phones. ⁓ Granger Forson: Absolutely, yes. There's always cross communication taking place in every business. What this is is a much more what you're recognising is a bit more sort of a formal way to come together to build that connection between us all and to understand each other more but also to start having those challenging questions about right this went wrong how would we fix it or who's had a really great opportunity or great idea this week, let's share that between everybody. Or you know that property manager A went above and beyond with a situation. So we want to celebrate that and say really well done in front of everybody rather than just a quick thank you to them. Yeah, because recognition in front of our peers is really important. So bringing that together. Now you've said Monday and Tuesday is your typical sort of day off. You don't really want to impact on a Monday do you with people if that's. not going to happen. happening on a Wednesday that would stop that from happening? ⁓ Phil: So would be the Monday, which is Tuesday and Wednesday are the quieter days. People sort of check out and then we reset the properties Sunday to Monday. And then so Tuesday, there's less going on. yeah, so it would be on Monday would be quite because we're all working. There's no reason why we can't catch up. And actually it's quite fresh if there's been something exciting happening over the weekend, someone driving into a property or something, which has happened. ⁓ can all have a talk about it and you know, this, ⁓ know, and celebrate. Granger Forson: Okay. Yeah. Phil: what we have, we fix that problem or talk about a problem that we didn't fix and maybe we should have done it like this. So I think a manual checking would be good as well. Granger Forson: So. Okay, so if we're now trying to think about, so we've got a reasonably good day we can do that. What would we discuss? What do you think are the crucial elements that would help bring the team together and bond? You're doing the tactical things on a Friday, are we ready to go? Is this ready? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, this is the situation. What are those other things that you would do on a Monday then, which would help bring the team together and help grow the business? Phil: I think it would just be at the reviews we've had over the weekend. They generally come in on a Monday, weekend stays and celebrating hopefully all five star reviews and talking about how booked up were, ⁓ the big bookings we've had and also how fantastic everyone's done because our properties look amazing. Although on a Monday morning they probably need a clean. And also use that as an opportunity to ask the team, know, what support do you need? How are your cleaners getting on? Our property managed to recruit the cleaners that we use now. they need any support from us really. Yeah. Granger Forson: Brilliant. I always talk about there's a connection meeting that needs to take place. And from my background in the lean world, we call that the two-second lean morning meeting. That doesn't mean the morning meeting has to be every single day, it's that bringing together of four things. It's having some fun together. ⁓ about having energy. So as the leadership team, we're bringing energy to the business and the team. ⁓ about celebration it's about learning. So the learning aspect often is how well is the business doing? How well, what's our forward booking schedule? How profitable are we as a business? What's the status of the order book? about them, things that went wrong. What we all do to solve these problems? How could we group think and come up with better ways of doing that? Celebration is celebrating people that have gone above and beyond, celebrating those amazing things, celebrating your properties, you know, and showing some of the really good properties and saying, is what we've done to improve the property, this is what we've achieved. So everybody in the group is starting to see and understand that. So it's not just yourselves, ⁓ and Phil, ⁓ about properties, you're teaching them through these activities of the morning meetings to make that happen. ⁓ then there's that ⁓ bit to bring in some little bits of activity, you can do quotes of the day, you can have little fun elements, okay? And then there's that energy and that's the energy that you bring through the structure and the organization of it to make that happen. So it's a really powerful structure that comes together for those type of meetings. And you can really do with it over time, once you've solved the structure of the meeting and it's really working, ⁓ rotate between your team. ⁓ team members to lead that meeting. it's not just yourself Jason leading it, of the first few months it is, absolutely, ⁓ over time you rotate between the rest of your team and that brings even new energy and new structure to it and builds that bonds even greater. ⁓ are your thoughts on that? ⁓ Phil: That's a really good idea. Yeah, I like that idea a lot. Yeah, definitely. Granger Forson: Brilliant. So that thought in mind, what would be an experiment that you would start with next week to take this forward? Phil: We're already literally just starting our first Friday meeting tomorrow. they'll all be coming along after the network meeting that we both go to tomorrow morning. ⁓ And, then I'll that back in for, ⁓ Monday. you Monday and then that just become part of our, you know, part of our diaries to make sure we all check in, ⁓ Monday morning as well. ⁓ it's, these Mondays the biggest days in of. effort in terms of working, know, lot of properties to clean. So it's a good way of just energizing each other in the morning, although they're probably being patient to get up and clean. ⁓ Granger Forson: probably. But think about the structure of it. Write out the agenda, ⁓ it, ⁓ feedback from the team to develop it, and make them understand why we're doing this morning meeting, why it's taking place. ⁓ that it's just, ⁓ no, here goes another meeting, ⁓ god, we hate meetings. build why, build that understanding and take it forward. Brilliant, ⁓ fantastic. you so much for that, Phil. It was a really great conversation. So let's go into our wrap up and close. ⁓ Phil: Yes. Granger Forson: What did you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Phil: ⁓ that's a really hard question, actually. I don't think I've ever talked about, you know, my clients sometimes being unhappy. I guess all company owners have unhappy clients. Sometimes you can't do anything about that. I've learned. And ⁓ to with, it was really stressful. My first, I remember my first owner that instructed us and became unhappy with what we ⁓ were That was incredibly stressful for me because I was like, I take that very personally. I'm a people pleaser. I want people to be happy. I've learnt doing this job that you can't please everybody and you've got to let those ones go, I suppose. talking about that is not something I really share with other people. Granger Forson: Well, thank you for your honesty. And finally, Phil, where can people find you if they want to follow more of your journey? Phil: So obviously got a social media presence with ⁓ and Instagram. We're still quite new at doing that. So you'll find us, we're hoping to our presence on social media. We've started ⁓ doing building into our marketing strategy ⁓ launch for our new listing. ⁓ So do a little sort of 30 second Facebook launch for our listings, starting that from tomorrow, which is really exciting. ⁓ And also our website, ⁓ can head to jasonphillip.co.uk. ⁓ as all our details of our services and contact us, that sort of stuff. Granger Forson: Thank you. Awesome. So Phil, thank you so much for a fantastic conversation today. I know our listeners will take a lot from it. It's been brilliant. Thank you. Phil: Thank you. Cheers.