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Katie Woolf spoke with Member for Araluen Robyn Lambley · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Now, yesterday in Parliament, as I've mentioned, things certainly got
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  Speaker 1: pretty fiery. Joining us on the line is the Member
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  Speaker 1: for Ara Lun, the Independent Member for Ara Lun, Robin Lamley.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, Robin, Good morning, kat Robin.
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  Speaker 1: I tell you what, there was a lot to take
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  Speaker 1: in yesterday, but during question time things just descended into
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  Speaker 1: well face. I think everybody was interjecting each other and
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  Speaker 1: control appeared as though it had been lost. Was I
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  Speaker 1: incorrect in thinking.
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  Speaker 2: That You're right on the money, Katie? It was out
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  Speaker 2: of control. It was crazy. I've been coming to Parliament
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  Speaker 2: as a member for many years now, more than ten years,
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  Speaker 2: and that would have to have rated as one of
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  Speaker 2: the worst days I've seen, really really quite disgraceful.
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  Speaker 1: What was it do you think, Robin, that was so
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  Speaker 1: disgraceful or what concerned you so much? Because how many
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  Speaker 1: years have you been in Parliament.
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  Speaker 2: Now almost eleven, so that's pretty big call. We've had
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  Speaker 2: pretty incredible question times over the years. But I think
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  Speaker 2: what stood out yesterday is that there was literally a
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  Speaker 2: lack of control. The Government members thought that they were
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  Speaker 2: being pretty clever, pretty smart, interjecting constantly raising points of
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  Speaker 2: order that were frivolous and vexatious, I thought, and the
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  Speaker 2: Speaker felt that she had to honor those complaints basically
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  Speaker 2: made by the government on the floor against the opposition leader.
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  Speaker 2: And all it did was stifled debate. It shut down
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  Speaker 2: the parliamentary process to the point where the opposition leader
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  Speaker 2: couldn't give her speech, couldn't do what she's actually paid
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  Speaker 2: to do, that's her role in parliament. Or because the
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  Speaker 2: government decided that they were having fun, they were playing
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  Speaker 2: games essentially.
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  Speaker 1: Robin in look, I know that there'll be some people
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  Speaker 1: who who were thinking, oh, hang on, Robin used to
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  Speaker 1: be a member of the COLP. She's just sticking up
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  Speaker 1: for Leah. But in the eleven years that you have
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  Speaker 1: been in the parliament, is it a regular occurrence to
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  Speaker 1: have a censure motion well knocked back or refused.
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  Speaker 2: That's a really good question, Katie. When the former CLP
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  Speaker 2: government of which I was a part of for a
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  Speaker 2: few years was was in power, I don't remember us
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  Speaker 2: knocking back a centi motion more than once or twice
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  Speaker 2: during that four year period. The government takes it on
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  Speaker 2: the chin and they accept a cent of motion because
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  Speaker 2: that's what you do now since twenty sixteen since Gunna
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  Speaker 2: came to government. They had four years of having no opposition.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think they were centured more than once or
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  Speaker 2: twice or accepted a cent of motion more than once
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  Speaker 2: or twice in the last four years of the last parliament.
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  Speaker 2: And now they're knocking back every single centu motion that
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  Speaker 2: the opposition put forward when they have an opposition. So
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  Speaker 2: the difference is quite stark. This government is not accepting
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  Speaker 2: sensumations and it is poor form. They should be accepting
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  Speaker 2: the motion and they should be fighting and defending themselves
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  Speaker 2: using that sentuation to put their case as to why
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  Speaker 2: they made the decision, for example, to give the twelve
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  Speaker 2: billion dollars to the Darwin Turf Club for the bank
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  Speaker 2: and using it as an opportunity. But no, they think
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  Speaker 2: they're too smart. And yes, I was a member of
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  Speaker 2: the COLP, but that's a long time ago, Katie. I
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  Speaker 2: left the COLP in twenty fifteen. I've been sitting in
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  Speaker 2: that parliament most of that time, apart from a few
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  Speaker 2: months as an independent, and I can see very clearly
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  Speaker 2: that this is going nowhere. It's not enhancing democracy and
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  Speaker 2: it's not enhancing debate. It's shutting down a conversation in
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  Speaker 2: parliament which territory is. Want to hear.
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  Speaker 1: Robin, for those out there listening who maybe aren't as
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  Speaker 1: avid political observers as myself, can you explain to them,
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  Speaker 1: you know, like in really normal person terms, what a
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  Speaker 1: center motion does and what it enables inside parliament.
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  Speaker 2: So a censi motion comes usually during question time, normally
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  Speaker 2: at the end of question time, so the opposition ask
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  Speaker 2: a number of questions, usually along on the same theme
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  Speaker 2: as what the center motion will be. This is the
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  Speaker 2: sort of tax standard tactic used, and at some point
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  Speaker 2: towards the end of question time they move that all
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  Speaker 2: standing orders or all rules around question time be suspended
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  Speaker 2: so they can basically center the government, which means move
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  Speaker 2: emotion that the government has done something or rather wrong
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  Speaker 2: or could have done something better, and it takes precedence
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  Speaker 2: over all other business on the agenda, and it is
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  Speaker 2: an extreme measure, usually to highlight an extreme matter of
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  Speaker 2: public importance. And in previous parliaments, as I said before,
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  Speaker 2: cent of motions were used almost in every parliamentary sitting
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  Speaker 2: because there's always something that the opposition wants to censure
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  Speaker 2: the government on. There's always something of great importance to
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  Speaker 2: the community that the opposition feel should take precedence, but
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  Speaker 2: this government, the Gunner government, shuts them down routinely, and
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  Speaker 2: I would suggest over the last five years they've only
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  Speaker 2: ever accepted one or two centuries, which is just unbelievable
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  Speaker 2: from my perspective.
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  Speaker 1: Robin, I do want to ask my understanding from yesterday
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  Speaker 1: watching question time is the Speaker Niria kit has now
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  Speaker 1: determined that a parliamentary committee is going to look at
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  Speaker 1: the term offense and the way it's used in parliament.
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  Speaker 1: The committee's going to look more closely after there were
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  Speaker 1: several standing orders called due to members taking offense to comments.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that this needs to happen, Robin.
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't very respectfully because I have to be
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  Speaker 2: very careful not to reflect on the speaker the yeah,
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  Speaker 2: otherwise I could find myself in trouble. But I don't
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  Speaker 2: think that that's going to go anywhere at all. Don't
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  Speaker 2: forget that every single parliamentary committee is operated and controlled
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  Speaker 2: by the government. So if you're sending this sort of
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  Speaker 2: issue in this case to the Standing Orders Committee to
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  Speaker 2: look at what's offensive and what's not, you will only
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  Speaker 2: ever come out with a result or a recommendation from
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  Speaker 2: that committee that fits into the government's agenda. It's a
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  Speaker 2: complete waste of time, Katie. Yeah, I think the speaker.
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  Speaker 2: The Speaker's role is always up to the interpretation by
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  Speaker 2: the person who sits in that job. And if I
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  Speaker 2: was a speaker, my interpretation of my role would be
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  Speaker 2: to rule on whether something is offensive or not. I
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  Speaker 2: think the Speaker has the power to do that. For
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  Speaker 2: some reason, Nari doesn't think she has that power, and
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  Speaker 2: she's referring to a committee. I think she has that power,
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  Speaker 2: and I'd like to see her use it.
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  Speaker 1: Robin, I do want to ask you. I know that
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  Speaker 1: it was also decided yesterday. The Chief Minister had moved
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  Speaker 1: a motion and this is something that it appeared as
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  Speaker 1: so everybody agreed on. The Chief Minister moved that motion
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  Speaker 1: well to refer the former Independent Commissioner against Corruption Ken
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  Speaker 1: Fleming to the Privilege's Committee. Is this a good idea?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, look, of course it's a good idea. It was
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  Speaker 2: an absolute shambles what unraveled or unfolded in the Budget
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  Speaker 2: Estimates hearing involving the former IK Commissioner. But look, what
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  Speaker 2: I take exception to, Katie, is what happened actually in
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  Speaker 2: that Budget Estimates hearing, he gave a speech that went
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  Speaker 2: on for probably more than twenty minutes, which was extraordinary.
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  Speaker 2: Anyone giving evidence to that committee is told that they
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  Speaker 2: can give an opening statement, usually no more than five
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  Speaker 2: to ten minutes at the most. He was allowed to
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  Speaker 2: go on and on and on. And I actually attribute
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  Speaker 2: some responsibility for what happened to the government, the Government
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  Speaker 2: chair Joel Bowden, who allowed that to happen. He should
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  Speaker 2: have been pulled up, he should have been put in
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  Speaker 2: his place. He should have been told that what he
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  Speaker 2: was saying was disrespectful, potentially defamatory, offensive and told to
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  Speaker 2: shut up. But the chair Joel Bowden, sat there and
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  Speaker 2: listened to it, and who was sitting next to him
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  Speaker 2: the whole time and said nothing, the Chief Minister of
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  Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. So I have a problem with not
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  Speaker 2: only what the commissioner said and what's transpired since, but
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  Speaker 2: the process within the Budget Estimates Committee that allowed it
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  Speaker 2: to happen, which of course is a parliamentary committee controlled
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  Speaker 2: and operated by the government. So look, there's layers and
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  Speaker 2: layers of incompetency and missed opportunities to control something and
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  Speaker 2: not let it get to the point where some person
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  Speaker 2: is potentially identified by the Commissioner and feels that they've
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  Speaker 2: been defined and misrepresented. It's just a mess, Katie, another mess.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Robin, unfortunately we've run out of time, but we've
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  Speaker 1: got you in on Friday for the week that was.
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  Speaker 1: I'll be there, lovet Thank you so much, Robin. We
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  Speaker 1: appreciate your time. That is Robin Ladley there, the independent
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  Speaker 1: member for Ara lun and really interesting I think to
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  Speaker 1: get that bit of background in terms of what a
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  Speaker 1: center motion is, but also whether it is normal process
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  Speaker 1: for something like that to be knocked back, and by
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  Speaker 1: the sounds of it, definitely not. I have also had
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  Speaker 1: confirmation from a former speaker that no, it's not usual practice.
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  Speaker 1: So look, we're going to delve a bit more into
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  Speaker 1: this and whether it is an example of the government
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  Speaker 1: refusing scrutiny or whether they are trying to, you know,
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  Speaker 1: to get away from being scrutinized.