Latest / Trumponomics / Creating Catalonia From Scratch

Transcript

Creating Catalonia From Scratch · Trumponomics

0:00
Speaker 1: How do you create a state from scratch? Secession can
0:04
Speaker 1: feel pretty good, and every nation needs to have a
0:07
Speaker 1: sense of itself, its identity and where it comes from.
0:12
Speaker 1: But that doesn't make a state. Currency needs to be
0:16
Speaker 1: issued and printed. Revenue needs to be collected, Bills need
0:20
Speaker 1: to be paid, Armies need to be raised at a
0:24
Speaker 1: more mundane level, Trash needs to be collected. How does
0:28
Speaker 1: all this stuff get done and how many breakaway movements
0:32
Speaker 1: actually give it much thought. Catalonia, a region of Spain
0:38
Speaker 1: that's seeking to go its own way, is a good
0:40
Speaker 1: case study. Welcome to Benchmark, a show about the global economy.
0:54
Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Moss from Bloomberg View in New York, and
0:58
Speaker 1: I'm Scott landman and economics editor with Bloomberg in Washington.
1:02
Speaker 1: The plumbing of a potential news state, how the machinery
1:05
Speaker 1: of government would actually work might seem pretty mundane in
1:09
Speaker 1: the midst of a heady nationalist campaign, but it's the
1:13
Speaker 1: stuff that determines whether a country succeeds or fails. Joining
1:18
Speaker 1: us is Maria today O, a Bloomberg News reporter who
1:21
Speaker 1: has been covering the Catalan independence scene. And Max seems Spy,
1:27
Speaker 1: an economist for Bloomberg Intelligence in London. Let's bring in
1:32
Speaker 1: Maria first, where she is on the scene in Barcelona. Maria,
1:36
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of developments on this story lately,
1:39
Speaker 1: but if you can just take a step back and
1:40
Speaker 1: sit and and tell us a little bit about why
1:44
Speaker 1: the Catalans, or why Catalonia wants to declare independence, or
1:49
Speaker 1: why they're moving in this direction or they have been
1:52
Speaker 1: moving in this direction for several years. A lot of
1:54
Speaker 1: people would tell you to have to do with identity,
1:57
Speaker 1: how to do with the fact that they have their
1:59
Speaker 1: own language, their own history, and the fact that it's
2:01
Speaker 1: always been a very distinct region within Spain to this
2:05
Speaker 1: ghost center is back, So a lot of people would
2:07
Speaker 1: tell you that's where it starts. Having said that, you'd
2:10
Speaker 1: also get an argument that, you know, there's kind of
2:12
Speaker 1: started in two thousand six when they were meant to
2:15
Speaker 1: have new regional powers and a new regional kind of
2:17
Speaker 1: framework for the way regional powers are inactive in Spain,
2:21
Speaker 1: and then uh that prompted a backlash from Madrid who said, look,
2:25
Speaker 1: they're going too far. They're kind of presented themselves as
2:28
Speaker 1: a nation and we have to water down to the bill, right,
2:31
Speaker 1: So a lot of people will tell you that's when
2:33
Speaker 1: it started, and obviously the real frustration kicked out in
2:35
Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve, when obviously the crisis in Spain
2:38
Speaker 1: really began to fight, and it began to fight hard
2:42
Speaker 1: and the Catalan administration's pockets. Now, they would tell you
2:45
Speaker 1: this is unfair for us because we pay a lot
2:47
Speaker 1: of taxes to Madrid, which then get distributed to the
2:50
Speaker 1: rest of Spain, but we don't get a fair deal
2:52
Speaker 1: because we're putting way too much money in Then we
2:55
Speaker 1: get back in terms of infratchurch to expending and more
2:58
Speaker 1: investment in the region. So a lot of people tell
3:00
Speaker 1: you have to do with history, but also the fact
3:02
Speaker 1: that there's been a series of maybe political issues lately,
3:05
Speaker 1: and obviously the fact that there was a crisism. This
3:08
Speaker 1: is a man it's very essence question about money. Now,
3:12
Speaker 1: there are many parts of individual countries that have unique culture,
3:17
Speaker 1: unique language, unique way of looking at the world. That
3:21
Speaker 1: alone doesn't give you the building block of a state.
3:25
Speaker 1: You can see yourself as a nation, but you also
3:28
Speaker 1: need to have a state. How much thought has gone
3:31
Speaker 1: into what the state would look like and how it
3:34
Speaker 1: would work. That's a great question. And in fact, you
3:38
Speaker 1: can look at Spain and see other regions that also
3:41
Speaker 1: have their own language, that also have their own history,
3:44
Speaker 1: and that you know, have had a very strong regional
3:47
Speaker 1: identity for century. So obviously within Spain, Catalonia is not
3:51
Speaker 1: an exception. You can say there's other regions that also
3:53
Speaker 1: are the same case would apply. Now the question is
3:56
Speaker 1: how do you become a state and most brutantly, who
3:58
Speaker 1: is getting to recognize your state? Well, so far Catalonia,
4:03
Speaker 1: you know, there's basic infrastructure and basic structures that they
4:06
Speaker 1: lack and they've admitted to this, like having their own
4:09
Speaker 1: tax agency. The money the taxes are collected to the
4:13
Speaker 1: central government's tax agency, so again that's something that Madrid
4:16
Speaker 1: has powers over. Then you know, if you look at
4:18
Speaker 1: things like territorial and border control, that's something that Madrid
4:21
Speaker 1: has control over. So again it's a question of do
4:24
Speaker 1: you have the fundamental infrastructure that you need. The Catalan
4:27
Speaker 1: government will tell you we do. However, they've never been
4:30
Speaker 1: tested or friend to the test, so there are question
4:32
Speaker 1: marks to whether they would ever work. So I, as
4:36
Speaker 1: an Australian and an American, if I wish to travel
4:39
Speaker 1: to the country to the state of Catalonia. Do I
4:43
Speaker 1: need a visa? What currency should I take with me?
4:47
Speaker 1: What's the banking system like? Do they have any relationships
4:50
Speaker 1: with banks here in the United States? Has anyone thought
4:53
Speaker 1: about this? Yeah, that is a good point, and essentially
4:57
Speaker 1: what the Catalan government will tell you. It's like, there's
5:00
Speaker 1: no way we're going to get kicked out of the
5:02
Speaker 1: European Union. We're going to get to give the euro
5:04
Speaker 1: and you won't need a password to get in and
5:06
Speaker 1: out of California because we would be a European country.
5:10
Speaker 1: Now the point that here is no one from the
5:13
Speaker 1: European Commission, which is you know with obviously exercises power,
5:18
Speaker 1: has come out and said this would be the case.
5:19
Speaker 1: In fact, we're a getting the opposite, the commissioners saying,
5:22
Speaker 1: look as a dance the law that prevails in the
5:24
Speaker 1: Spanish Constitutional Court and and we don't think this is
5:27
Speaker 1: a valid rerough erendum. Again, this all goes back to
5:30
Speaker 1: the very basics of it, is this a legal vote?
5:33
Speaker 1: And as do they have legal mandate? So far we
5:36
Speaker 1: don't think that's the case because no one has recognized this,
5:39
Speaker 1: and have they put tho into this. Yes, But again,
5:41
Speaker 1: what you hear from the Catalan administration is that they
5:43
Speaker 1: think life would go on as normal as they're guarantee
5:46
Speaker 1: that that would be the case at this point, not really.
5:49
Speaker 1: If Catalonia were actually to become independent from Spain, given
5:54
Speaker 1: catalonious role in the Spanish economy, like you were just
5:56
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, it's basically a more prosperous area
6:00
Speaker 1: than the rest of the country, would it be pretty
6:03
Speaker 1: devastating for the economy of the rest of Spain. Yeah,
6:08
Speaker 1: I would obviously have an impact on the Spanish economy
6:12
Speaker 1: and sent there's no no one can deny that business,
6:14
Speaker 1: the powerhouse economy, their rivals Madrid essentially and the bad
6:18
Speaker 1: country too, And obviously it would have an impact on
6:21
Speaker 1: the broader nation, there's no question. But again the question
6:24
Speaker 1: markets what could happen to an endependent Catalonia. You need
6:27
Speaker 1: to keep in mind that a lot of the businesses
6:29
Speaker 1: that you know are based in Catalonia actually do a
6:32
Speaker 1: lot more business with the rest of saying that they
6:34
Speaker 1: do with you know, inside Catalonia. And also this opens
6:37
Speaker 1: up a broader question, which is, well, they get to
6:40
Speaker 1: keep the same trade relationship with the European Union if
6:43
Speaker 1: they were to separate and that is obviously a much
6:46
Speaker 1: bigger question. Now you can live without Spain, but without
6:48
Speaker 1: access to the European market, that's a much broader issues,
6:52
Speaker 1: right because Catalonia would be a separate country. Therefore it
6:56
Speaker 1: would have to go through EU entry procedure is and
7:00
Speaker 1: until that time it would not be in the EU,
7:02
Speaker 1: which means they can't use the Euro, which means they
7:06
Speaker 1: don't have a trade relationship in the Single Market, which
7:09
Speaker 1: means they have to use the w t O, which
7:11
Speaker 1: means they'd be subject to tariffs. What will they call
7:14
Speaker 1: their currency? Who will run their central bank? I just
7:17
Speaker 1: get the impression no one's really thought with any intellectual
7:21
Speaker 1: rigor about this. Well, that's a good point, and again
7:25
Speaker 1: it's a it's a question that you're never actually able
7:28
Speaker 1: to get a clear answer from the Catalan administration because
7:31
Speaker 1: they insist that there's going to be no need to
7:35
Speaker 1: return back to an old currency. Again, if you remember
7:37
Speaker 1: before the europe Catalonia has a Spanish perseta. So the
7:41
Speaker 1: question is would you go back to an old Spanish
7:43
Speaker 1: currency or would you create your own? And the factor
7:46
Speaker 1: is in the Canal administration doesn't really have answers to
7:49
Speaker 1: these questions because they always insist we're not going to
7:52
Speaker 1: get get out and we're not going to be forced
7:54
Speaker 1: out of the years, and so we're going to get
7:56
Speaker 1: to keep the euro. Obviously, when you look at the
7:58
Speaker 1: market reaction and businesses here, they think the answer may
8:02
Speaker 1: not be as clear cut, which is why we got
8:04
Speaker 1: more than twenty companies leaving the region since the referendum
8:07
Speaker 1: take place, and why two of the region's biggest banks,
8:09
Speaker 1: Cash A Bank and Sava Day decided to move their headquarters,
8:12
Speaker 1: like if they wanted to send a strong message to
8:14
Speaker 1: the market that no matter what happens, we're going to
8:17
Speaker 1: be a US and bank backed up by the European
8:19
Speaker 1: central banks. Precisely because we don't have a concrete answer
8:22
Speaker 1: on this, and what would happen if you're trying to
8:24
Speaker 1: have this conversation with the people in the square waving
8:27
Speaker 1: the flags, carrying the candles, what's a central bank, what's
8:31
Speaker 1: the currency, what's a tax? Exactly? This is this is
8:34
Speaker 1: a very emotional uh topic of conversation here in Catalonia.
8:38
Speaker 1: There are people who would say, look, we have obviously
8:41
Speaker 1: it's not going to be easy, but we think we
8:43
Speaker 1: can get it done. And again go back to the
8:45
Speaker 1: point that we're not going to get it out from
8:47
Speaker 1: the European Union. Some other people just don't question it.
8:49
Speaker 1: They think, look, it's it's it's not going to be fine.
8:51
Speaker 1: And actually, if we did have to play a price,
8:54
Speaker 1: it might be worth it. You know, we're going to
8:55
Speaker 1: be an independent nation and this is what we want.
8:57
Speaker 1: It might mean the yet times again if you're rough,
9:00
Speaker 1: but actually it's worth it in the end. There are
9:02
Speaker 1: some others today, especially the business community doesn't certaintly. We
9:06
Speaker 1: don't like it. There's lack of clarity, we don't like it.
9:08
Speaker 1: And again the business community reached out to the cattle
9:11
Speaker 1: Original president Carlos such A mornents that we need to
9:14
Speaker 1: find a middle way to get uh, you know, an
9:16
Speaker 1: altitude this issue and the cattle in issue, because again
9:20
Speaker 1: for the business community, it's really not clear cut. The
9:23
Speaker 1: business would go on as usual. Maria. It's an interesting
9:27
Speaker 1: story with many more dimensions than we can even cover
9:30
Speaker 1: on day to day basis. Thank you so much for
9:32
Speaker 1: taking the time to talk with us. I'm not to
9:34
Speaker 1: worry any time. Let's go now to maxim As Bohy.
9:39
Speaker 1: He's an economist with Bloomberg Intelligence in London. Maxine, thanks
9:43
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Thank you for inviting me. I
9:46
Speaker 1: read a piece that you and your colleagues at BI
9:49
Speaker 1: wrote recently and pretty down bet on how Catalonia would
9:54
Speaker 1: function or the challenges that they would face as an
9:58
Speaker 1: independent nation. You I was really struck by a line
10:01
Speaker 1: that you said that Catalonia could find itself combining trade
10:05
Speaker 1: arrangements worse than those of post Brexit Britain, with a
10:09
Speaker 1: monetary system more like Kosovos. That doesn't sound too good.
10:14
Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit more? It sounds
10:16
Speaker 1: a bit scary, yes, indeed. Um, So in this piece,
10:18
Speaker 1: what we did is actually trying to see what an
10:21
Speaker 1: independent Catalonia would look like economically. So our central scenario
10:26
Speaker 1: is that Catalonia won't declare independence, or as soon as
10:30
Speaker 1: they really do, the Spanish governments in Madrid is going
10:33
Speaker 1: to say his power by triggering Article on the fifty
10:35
Speaker 1: five of the Spanish Constitution. But in this piece, what
10:38
Speaker 1: we wanted to see is if Catalonia wins independence, how
10:42
Speaker 1: is it going to look like on an economic angle?
10:45
Speaker 1: And since they would probably exit the Eurozone, the European
10:50
Speaker 1: Union and they have no World Trade Organization membership, they
10:54
Speaker 1: would from day one, end up having no regulation, having
10:59
Speaker 1: no possibility teas of actually doing trade with the rest
11:02
Speaker 1: of the world. They would lose all the membership cards
11:05
Speaker 1: that Spain enjoys, and this would amount to being like
11:09
Speaker 1: in a situation like cost of all because of is
11:11
Speaker 1: using the Euro as a currency, but it's absolutely no
11:14
Speaker 1: influence on the monetary policy of the Eurozone. And at
11:18
Speaker 1: the same time, Brexit would actually be quite similar in
11:22
Speaker 1: a sense that all these trade agreements would from the
11:25
Speaker 1: one just disappear and you would end up having to
11:28
Speaker 1: go to the World Trade rules. But again Catalunia doesn't
11:32
Speaker 1: belong to the World Trade Organization, so even that would
11:35
Speaker 1: be not available for them, Unlike Brexit. The United Kingdom
11:40
Speaker 1: of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country that exists.
11:44
Speaker 1: It's a member of the u N, it's a member
11:46
Speaker 1: of the i m F, it's a member of the
11:47
Speaker 1: World Bank. It's a thing exactly. There is no country Catalonia.
11:53
Speaker 1: So they're much worse. If they go their own way
11:57
Speaker 1: then the UK is now that's truth. They would they
12:01
Speaker 1: would have basically no international statues. There's a lot of
12:05
Speaker 1: state that. I mean, if you look at Kosovo, for
12:07
Speaker 1: example that happened two thousand and eight in the still
12:10
Speaker 1: the vast majority of states don't recognize Kosovo Catalunia. It
12:14
Speaker 1: would be it would be probably the same thing. They
12:16
Speaker 1: would have to go through a very long process if
12:19
Speaker 1: they if they would like to re enter the European Union,
12:21
Speaker 1: if they would like to re enter the euro Zone,
12:23
Speaker 1: you lose access from one day to the other, but
12:26
Speaker 1: then it takes years, I mean really years. Bulgaria, for example,
12:30
Speaker 1: has been waiting since two thousand seven to enter the
12:32
Speaker 1: euro Zone. So it's a very long process that you
12:35
Speaker 1: would have to go through. As soon as you declare
12:39
Speaker 1: independence from Spain. Have the people in California, or at
12:42
Speaker 1: least the leaders that are sort of pushing the independence movement,
12:46
Speaker 1: do they have this infrastructure set up already for the
12:49
Speaker 1: state ready to go if they declare independence or are
12:52
Speaker 1: they basically starting from scratch if if they were actually
12:55
Speaker 1: to become independent from Spain. So that's that's a good question.
12:59
Speaker 1: I think I think we should ask them the question. Obviously,
13:02
Speaker 1: I don't think that the state is fully prepared to
13:04
Speaker 1: do that, and I don't think that the citizens, when
13:07
Speaker 1: they voted in this very controversial referendum that the citizens
13:11
Speaker 1: exactly know what was at stake here. Declaring independence is
13:16
Speaker 1: one thing, but then telling the citizens if we do that,
13:18
Speaker 1: you will lose maybe your currency, you will lose, all
13:22
Speaker 1: the trade agreements, you might lose also obviously the all
13:25
Speaker 1: the travel freedom in Europe. I think there's much more
13:28
Speaker 1: at stake than what was on the ballot. And this
13:30
Speaker 1: is also why it's very controversial in Catalonia this referendum.
13:33
Speaker 1: The fact that only participated and the fact that there's
13:37
Speaker 1: a minority maybe or fifty fifty of the population that
13:41
Speaker 1: doesn't want independence. Right now, that's a revelation. The impression
13:47
Speaker 1: one gets from watching international TV channels, reading international newspapers
13:53
Speaker 1: is that this is a slam dunk as far as
13:55
Speaker 1: people in Cattle Larnier are concerned. You're saying only a
14:00
Speaker 1: minority five or breaking away. Well, if you look at
14:03
Speaker 1: the result of the referenum, so the referenum was illegal.
14:06
Speaker 1: So you have ninety percent or ninety percent saying they
14:09
Speaker 1: wanted independence, but only full percent voted during that referendum.
14:13
Speaker 1: So if you add up the figures, it's a minority.
14:15
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that if more people had voted that
14:18
Speaker 1: the result would be different. But they're coming independent on
14:21
Speaker 1: such a small illegal, not legitimate, I would say, basis
14:25
Speaker 1: is questionable obviously, and we've seen some protests actually two
14:29
Speaker 1: weeks ago of the anti independence movements and there were
14:34
Speaker 1: i would say hundreds of thousands of people in the
14:37
Speaker 1: streets on Sunday for people just with the Spanish black
14:40
Speaker 1: saying we don't want to have independence. One must keep
14:42
Speaker 1: in mind that the regions in Spain already enjoy some autonomy.
14:47
Speaker 1: Catalonia as his own government, his own police, It has
14:50
Speaker 1: his own taxes, also national ones, but obviously more regional ones,
14:54
Speaker 1: so it or it is already enjoying some kind of autonomy.
14:58
Speaker 1: Obviously not enough for the people that want to push
15:00
Speaker 1: for independence. For example, they think they are giving too
15:03
Speaker 1: much money to the central state. There are net contributors
15:05
Speaker 1: to the national budget. But the bottom line here is that, yes,
15:08
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people in Catalonia that don't
15:11
Speaker 1: want to have independence. And this is why I think
15:14
Speaker 1: the best way to solve this problem would be to
15:16
Speaker 1: have a real vote, an actual vote in the good conditions,
15:20
Speaker 1: but this is very unlikely to happen anytime soon. Here's
15:22
Speaker 1: the bottom line for what Dan raised in our intro.
15:26
Speaker 1: Will the trash continue to be collected in Catalonia? Isn't
15:29
Speaker 1: at all that really matters in the end? Well, at
15:32
Speaker 1: the end of disruption in Catalan's daily life. If they
15:36
Speaker 1: really go to independence, if they lose all these trade
15:39
Speaker 1: agreements and all this uh multilateral agreements they're enjoying, the
15:43
Speaker 1: effect could be quite significant on the daily life of
15:46
Speaker 1: the cataman citizens, in terms of jobs, in terms of inflation,
15:50
Speaker 1: in terms of being able to collect money to go
15:53
Speaker 1: to the A T M and have Europe. So I mean,
15:55
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Yeah, the question is
15:57
Speaker 1: is pretty much about the quality of life, and but
16:00
Speaker 1: what's the future they want in the region. Has anybody
16:04
Speaker 1: asked the leaders of the independence movement what their plans
16:08
Speaker 1: are for monetary arrangements, budgetary arrangements, revenue raising, bordering customs.
16:14
Speaker 1: Has anybody actually asked them that demanded that they explain. Well,
16:21
Speaker 1: there has not been a real campaign ahead of the votes,
16:24
Speaker 1: and I haven't seen anything where they really explained what
16:27
Speaker 1: they want. I've seen some declarations of some supporters of
16:31
Speaker 1: the catal and President Pride demon saying that they could
16:35
Speaker 1: resort to capital controls or to some form of economic
16:39
Speaker 1: quercation to make sure that the capital flows don't don't
16:43
Speaker 1: leave Catalunia. Um the question, obviously, I mean to me
16:47
Speaker 1: the business. Some banks, for example, have already left, right
16:51
Speaker 1: they moved their headquarters away from Barcelona and they put
16:54
Speaker 1: them in the valley Arres or in Madrid. So they
16:56
Speaker 1: already preventively made a move to make sure that they
16:59
Speaker 1: don't get disrupted in the business. But I think, yeah,
17:02
Speaker 1: the question for the Catalan government is are you ready
17:05
Speaker 1: to go all the way down this path and are
17:07
Speaker 1: you ready to assume the responsibility towards your citizens. I
17:11
Speaker 1: think this is the very central question here, Maxim before
17:14
Speaker 1: you go a thirty question, what makes Catalonia so special?
17:20
Speaker 1: I mean, why doesn't Bavaria want to break away? Why
17:24
Speaker 1: not Brooklyn secession? What's so great about the Catalonians? So Actually,
17:29
Speaker 1: the funny stories that Bavaria is actually a party that
17:33
Speaker 1: also advocates independence, but they only have a few votes
17:35
Speaker 1: right there. They're not big at all at the national
17:37
Speaker 1: stage or even at the regional state. Catalunia is from
17:41
Speaker 1: the history of Spain, from the Franco Hera, from the
17:45
Speaker 1: Civil War. It has in an identity, a cultural identity
17:49
Speaker 1: that is probably stronger than other regions in Europe. It
17:53
Speaker 1: is also of the Spanish GDP, and as I said,
17:56
Speaker 1: it's a net contributor to the national budgets. So there's
17:59
Speaker 1: a lot of for the for the independence is there's
18:02
Speaker 1: a lot of arguments if you line them up like
18:04
Speaker 1: this of saying we could actually do well just by
18:07
Speaker 1: ourself without the Spanish states and the Spanish authority. Again,
18:12
Speaker 1: this idea might be at first sight an interesting one,
18:16
Speaker 1: but if you go reading on the technicalities of this,
18:18
Speaker 1: if you would go all the way down that pass,
18:20
Speaker 1: you would lose, I think more than you would win
18:23
Speaker 1: by declaring independence. We'll have you back when Brooklyn declares independence.
18:28
Speaker 1: That's a yeah, Maxim. It was a pleasure having you on.
18:31
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time my pleasure.
18:33
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Dan. What do you think of
18:41
Speaker 1: all this? To this answer your questions about whether anybody's
18:44
Speaker 1: thought of the real issues that have to be taken
18:47
Speaker 1: care of if a country actually becomes independent, I'm left
18:51
Speaker 1: with the impression that few people have contemplated, or at
18:56
Speaker 1: least articulated, what the machinery of night in an independent
19:02
Speaker 1: Catalonia would look like. It's all very well to wave
19:07
Speaker 1: a flag in a square and hauld a candle at midnight,
19:11
Speaker 1: But how does the business of government get done? It's
19:14
Speaker 1: not glamorous, but it strukes me that it's pretty essential.
19:19
Speaker 1: What you're saying seems like it could be applied to
19:21
Speaker 1: a lot of countries in the world today. On the
19:24
Speaker 1: other hand, this is how things happen in the world,
19:27
Speaker 1: how revolutions, how all these kinds of issues that we cover,
19:30
Speaker 1: you know, actually get done. It comes down to how
19:33
Speaker 1: people feel and then the actual machinery of government follows later.
19:42
Speaker 1: Benchmark will be back next week and until then, you
19:45
Speaker 1: can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot Com,
19:47
Speaker 1: our Bloomberg app, as well as on Apple Podcasts, pocketcasts,
19:51
Speaker 1: and Stitcher. While you're there, take a minute to rate
19:54
Speaker 1: and review the show. Some more listeners can find us
19:57
Speaker 1: and let us know what you thought of the show.
19:59
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Scott Lanman Dan
20:03
Speaker 1: you are at moss under School, Eco, Maria is at
20:08
Speaker 1: at m A R I A T A D, and
20:11
Speaker 1: Maxim is at at m x s b A. Benchmark
20:16
Speaker 1: is produced by Sarah Patterson. The head of Bloomberg Podcast
20:19
Speaker 1: is Francesca Levy, thanks for listening, see your next time.