Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / JORAN VAN DER SLOOT CONFESSION: I BLUDGEONED NATALEE HOLLOWAY DEAD WITH A CINDERBLOCK

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JORAN VAN DER SLOOT CONFESSION: I BLUDGEONED NATALEE HOLLOWAY DEAD WITH A CINDERBLOCK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.
0:13
Speaker 2: Finally your Vandersloute, the man, as many of us has
0:19
Speaker 2: been saying for years, who murdered American beauty straight, a
0:24
Speaker 2: student bound for pre med school who murdered her is
0:29
Speaker 2: finally ensnared in an American courtroom. I'm Nancy Grace. This
0:35
Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
0:38
Speaker 2: at Crime Stories and on Serious XEM one eleven. First
0:42
Speaker 2: of all, I want you to hear as I did
0:48
Speaker 2: in court Natalie's mother, Beth Holloway. We did not know
0:54
Speaker 2: what was going to happen. The courtroom was packed. Are
1:00
Speaker 2: supposed to start at nine point thirty sharp on the
1:03
Speaker 2: eighth floor in the Hugo Black Federal Courthouse. We had
1:09
Speaker 2: been waiting. I had been waiting a couple of hours
1:13
Speaker 2: to make sure I could get into the courtroom. And
1:17
Speaker 2: when I left to drive to Birmingham, it was pitch dark,
1:22
Speaker 2: and all I could think about was Beth Holloway and
1:28
Speaker 2: what if I, God forbid, would ever have to be
1:34
Speaker 2: in her shoes seeking justice for my child that was murdered.
1:42
Speaker 2: The courtroom was packed. Deputies were trolling up and down
1:47
Speaker 2: as they should have been the aisles to make sure
1:51
Speaker 2: that there were no weapons, that nobody had their cell
1:53
Speaker 2: phone out, everyone was following the rules. There were armed
1:59
Speaker 2: guards at every door and every possible exit for you.
2:04
Speaker 2: On vander Slut. Beth, Natalie's mother, walked into the courtroom
2:12
Speaker 2: and literally it was like the bride. They come down
2:15
Speaker 2: the aisle, everything gets quiet and people turn. She came
2:21
Speaker 2: in back straight as an arrow and took to her seat.
2:30
Speaker 2: Your vander Slute came in looking much worse for the wear.
2:33
Speaker 2: He looked like an old man, flabby and dissipated, looked
2:38
Speaker 2: like a bum. They've been sleeping on a bench, apart bench.
2:45
Speaker 2: And I looked at him and I thought, do you
2:47
Speaker 2: have any idea the wake of pain you have left
2:53
Speaker 2: behind you, how many people's lives you have twisted up
2:59
Speaker 2: and contorted it? Apparently he has no idea. He just
3:04
Speaker 2: sat there like nothing was wrong. And then Beth spoke,
3:10
Speaker 2: I want you to listen to something she had to say.
3:12
Speaker 2: After listen, I don't know.
3:15
Speaker 3: I don't really look at it as saying goodbye to Natalie,
3:17
Speaker 3: because we wake up every morning and the hope that
3:20
Speaker 3: filled her her life and heart feels ours today. So
3:24
Speaker 3: we feel like we carry Natalie with us even forward now.
3:27
Speaker 4: And that's a good that's a very good feeling.
3:30
Speaker 3: Like I said, it feels victorious and more Eran Vanderslow's
3:33
Speaker 3: confession means we have finally reached the end of our
3:36
Speaker 3: never ending nightmare.
3:39
Speaker 4: And for me, reaching the end of the nightmare being
3:43
Speaker 4: over is better than closure.
3:47
Speaker 3: It's been eighteen years since Natalie disappeared, and Notalie would
3:51
Speaker 3: be thirty six years old today.
3:54
Speaker 4: I still miss her every day. It's been a very long.
3:58
Speaker 3: And painful journey, but we finally got the answers we've
4:02
Speaker 3: been searching for for all these years. We finally today
4:07
Speaker 3: we got justice for Natalie.
4:09
Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
4:11
Speaker 2: what we know right now. But first to my longtime
4:13
Speaker 2: friend and colleague, forensic expert Cheryl McCollum, founder director of
4:18
Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute and start a hit podcast,
4:21
Speaker 2: Zone seven. Cheryl. She has much bravado as she's speaking
4:27
Speaker 2: right after we all got out of court yesterday. But
4:31
Speaker 2: in the courtroom, Cheryl, when she stood up, you're right
4:35
Speaker 2: there beside me. That's what I broke down and started crying.
4:41
Speaker 2: When she her voice cracked and she said, in my mind,
4:48
Speaker 2: in my heart, Natalie will be forever, young, forever, eighteen, forever,
4:56
Speaker 2: with the world before, forever and beautiful. That's how she
5:04
Speaker 2: will live in my heart. And just the diametrically opposed
5:11
Speaker 2: factions in the courtroom, with Beth and Natalie's dad on
5:17
Speaker 2: one side with the state and Vanderschlout in his fleet
5:21
Speaker 2: of attorneys on the other side. I will never forget
5:27
Speaker 2: when she said that. So with all of her bravado,
5:30
Speaker 2: all of her bravery, all of her valor, she is hurting.
5:37
Speaker 2: She is hurting it. I heard she promised she would
5:39
Speaker 2: be right back in the classroom today, going right back
5:45
Speaker 2: to work. And I didn't realize Cheryl, that by going
5:51
Speaker 2: to Aruba and staying for so long trying to find Natalie,
5:54
Speaker 2: she lost her job, She lost her teaching credentials. She
5:59
Speaker 2: had to come back, ultimately and go back to school
6:02
Speaker 2: and start all over from scratch. She lost her tenure,
6:05
Speaker 2: she lost everything looking for Natalie.
6:08
Speaker 5: She was fighting more than one battle. She had to
6:10
Speaker 5: fight to get her livelihood back. She had to fight
6:13
Speaker 5: for justice for her child. But I'm with you, what
6:16
Speaker 5: we saw yesterday in that courtroom was nothing shy of
6:20
Speaker 5: the transformation. She was fearless, she was laser focused on him.
6:26
Speaker 5: She spoke directly to him twice, and you know when
6:31
Speaker 5: she find as, you know, she turned and she looked
6:35
Speaker 5: at her son, Matt, and she said, Matt, we did
6:38
Speaker 5: it because you know, he was younger than Natalie and
6:41
Speaker 5: this has been his whole adult life, is fighting for justice.
6:45
Speaker 5: And they did that yesterday. If it were not for
6:50
Speaker 5: Beth Holloway, that would have never happened.
6:53
Speaker 2: You know what, you just gave me a flash, because
6:56
Speaker 2: there's nothing like this, brother, sister love. John David is
7:02
Speaker 2: a big teddy bear, my big boy. He's six '
7:05
Speaker 2: five now and he's just fifteen. The only two times
7:10
Speaker 2: he has ever pushed somebody at school was when they
7:15
Speaker 2: said something about his sister Lucy, and I think one
7:18
Speaker 2: was just trying to get a date, but yeah, that
7:20
Speaker 2: didn't work out. And the only time ever my daughter
7:26
Speaker 2: has ever had an active ounceid I know of. Anyway,
7:30
Speaker 2: somebody made fun of John David. She went up to
7:33
Speaker 2: them in the hallway with her big, thick, three ring
7:36
Speaker 2: binder notebook and waked him on the forehead. My little Lucy,
7:41
Speaker 2: she probably weighs ninety pounds, just attacked a big guy
7:45
Speaker 2: and beat him in the head because he made fun
7:48
Speaker 2: of John David. What I'm saying is, you don't really
7:51
Speaker 2: hear a lot about Natalie's brother, but he was front
7:56
Speaker 2: and center yesterday, and I cannot imagine what his life
8:01
Speaker 2: has been like. We think of Beth so much, but
8:04
Speaker 2: her heart, well, it's hurting. What about Natalie's brother? More
8:09
Speaker 2: from We could go on, but I want you to
8:11
Speaker 2: hear more from Beth Holloway today.
8:14
Speaker 3: I can tell you with certainty that after eighteen years
8:18
Speaker 3: Natalie's case it's solved.
8:21
Speaker 4: As far as I'm concerned, it's over. It's over.
8:26
Speaker 3: Uran Vandersfold is no longer the suspect in my daughter's murder.
8:30
Speaker 4: He is the killer.
8:32
Speaker 2: And we hear her talk about the case and whether
8:34
Speaker 2: she's satisfied with your Vandersloot's story about how Natalie died.
8:41
Speaker 2: Are you satisfied because I'm not. Some of it doesn't
8:44
Speaker 2: fit together for me, but we'll get to it. Listen
8:48
Speaker 2: to Beth.
8:48
Speaker 3: In the course of his family prosecution here for extortion
8:52
Speaker 3: in wire fraud indictment, he gave a proffer in which
8:55
Speaker 3: he finally confessed that he killed Natalie. He described when
8:59
Speaker 3: and how he killed her, and he said that after
9:01
Speaker 3: killing her on the beach in Aruba, he put her
9:04
Speaker 3: into the water and that was the last that he
9:06
Speaker 3: ever saw her. That was all verified by a comprehensive
9:11
Speaker 3: and conductive, conclusive polygraph test. Even with this confession, though,
9:17
Speaker 3: he can't be tried here for Natalie's murder, But I'm
9:20
Speaker 3: satisfied knowing that he did it, he did it alone,
9:24
Speaker 3: and he disposed of her alone.
9:28
Speaker 4: I won't give you the details of his brutal confession.
9:31
Speaker 3: Those will be forthcoming when the proffer is made public.
9:37
Speaker 4: You will also have details at the plea agreement which
9:41
Speaker 4: was reached.
9:42
Speaker 3: His sentence of the extortion and the wire fraud will
9:45
Speaker 3: run concurrently with a sentence in Peru for killing Stephanie Flores.
9:50
Speaker 4: And that's fine with me. Thanks to a lot of
9:53
Speaker 4: very smart and.
9:54
Speaker 3: Dedicated people here, I got the answer I've been searching
9:57
Speaker 3: for for the past eighteen years.
10:00
Speaker 2: You know, yesterday, as Cheryl McCollum and Joe Scott Morgan
10:06
Speaker 2: and Beth's best friend Ginger Strickland, we're all in front
10:12
Speaker 2: of the courthouse. We came straight down and hit the airwaves.
10:17
Speaker 2: We were wondering I may know the US law like
10:20
Speaker 2: the back of my hand. But I did not know
10:23
Speaker 2: the Ariuba law I'm now learning. I was hoping that
10:28
Speaker 2: your Vanderslut's confession would lead to a murder prosecution in Ariba.
10:34
Speaker 2: It's not happening. They actually have a twelve year statute
10:39
Speaker 2: of limitations on homicide jury. Who's jumping in? Is this
10:45
Speaker 2: Dale del cars is with me? That's just who I need.
10:50
Speaker 2: High profile lawyer joining us out of Jacksonville, former FBI,
10:54
Speaker 2: former cop, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. And now he's,
10:58
Speaker 2: as I said, a high profile criminal defense attorney. You
11:01
Speaker 2: can find him with del Carson law. Go ahead, d'ale,
11:03
Speaker 2: jump in. It's not going to happen, right, No.
11:06
Speaker 6: It's not going to happen. And there's no jury down there.
11:08
Speaker 6: And his father, of course was a judge in our route,
11:12
Speaker 6: but down in the ABCS, so you know there are
11:15
Speaker 6: connections there that really would argue against any additional prosecution.
11:20
Speaker 6: Of course, he's got to go back to Venezuela and
11:23
Speaker 6: serve the rest of his term.
11:24
Speaker 2: Doue.
11:25
Speaker 7: It's Peru.
11:39
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
11:44
Speaker 2: The thing is del Carson jumping off what you just said.
11:49
Speaker 2: Not only is the statue of limitations twelve years for homicide,
11:53
Speaker 2: and it's been over twelve years. They would not prosecute
11:58
Speaker 2: this case if I handed it to them on a
12:01
Speaker 2: silver platter with all the evidence, if it was on
12:03
Speaker 2: top of the Christmas tree, they would not prosecute it.
12:07
Speaker 2: They were never going to prosecute your vanishloot. I'm not
12:09
Speaker 2: sure why. Maybe it's because of the father who was judged.
12:13
Speaker 2: Maybe it's because how awful it is for tourism. They
12:17
Speaker 2: never lifted a finger to help Beth when she was
12:21
Speaker 2: there desperately trying to find her a daughter. And we
12:26
Speaker 2: Cheryl and Ginger and Beth and I recently went back
12:29
Speaker 2: to Aruba to try to uncover some clues we had
12:32
Speaker 2: heard about. We had not had our feet on the
12:36
Speaker 2: ground in the central area of Aruba downtown twenty minutes
12:42
Speaker 2: before the Aruba police tried to arrest Beth and me.
12:47
Speaker 2: So no way in huble l are they going to
12:51
Speaker 2: prosecute him. They wanted to prosecute Beth and me. I mean,
12:56
Speaker 2: Cheryl right.
12:57
Speaker 5: That it absolutely happened, and you made the greatest point
13:00
Speaker 5: ever you said in seventeen minutes, y'all have tried to
13:05
Speaker 5: arrest me and bev Holloway and y'all have not done
13:09
Speaker 5: anything to arrest him for the murder of her child
13:12
Speaker 5: in seventeen years.
13:13
Speaker 2: That did not get me very far. But that is
13:15
Speaker 2: in fact what I said, and it is and was true.
13:18
Speaker 2: We're talking about a proffer. A profer is something you
13:22
Speaker 2: offer the court. It's not always heard by a jury.
13:26
Speaker 2: The profer in this case is your Vandersloop's confession. And again,
13:31
Speaker 2: did he kill did he murder Natalie? Yes, he murdered
13:35
Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway. I'm saying that since the evidence became a
13:38
Speaker 2: parent the week that she went missing, But we learned
13:42
Speaker 2: so many more of the details. Also, I'm not buying
13:46
Speaker 2: his story. Hook line and sinker, see if you agree. Listen,
13:52
Speaker 2: I do deep hawk em fetish, get out, come with
13:57
Speaker 2: you though.
13:58
Speaker 8: What happened? Did Arkansattee leave? They they leave.
14:05
Speaker 9: They go back to their home. I assume they go
14:08
Speaker 9: back to their home. They get in their car and
14:10
Speaker 9: they leave. I'm actually with I'm actually with Natalie walking
14:18
Speaker 9: along the beach, I find the space before we get
14:23
Speaker 9: to the before we get to the Marriott Hotel where
14:27
Speaker 9: I lay her down. We lay down together in the
14:29
Speaker 9: sand and we start kissing. Each other. I start, I
14:34
Speaker 9: get her to kiss me again. We start kissing each
14:36
Speaker 9: other and I start fielding her up again and she
14:40
Speaker 9: tells me no.
14:41
Speaker 2: And according to Vanderslie the Double Killer, yes, he also
14:46
Speaker 2: killed a young girl in much the same scenario, Stephanie
14:49
Speaker 2: Tossiana Floroes. He killed Flores and Peru. That's why it's
14:54
Speaker 2: in jail over there. But this is where the trouble starts.
14:57
Speaker 2: Right there. She said no. Listen.
15:01
Speaker 8: It tells me she doesn't want me to feel her up.
15:05
Speaker 8: I insist. I keep feeling her up either way, and
15:11
Speaker 8: she needs me in the crotch.
15:16
Speaker 9: When she needs me in the crotch, I get up
15:20
Speaker 9: on the beach and I kick her extremely hard in
15:24
Speaker 9: the face.
15:28
Speaker 8: Yeah, she's laying down.
15:31
Speaker 9: Unconscious, possibly even even dead, but definitely unconscious. And I
15:38
Speaker 9: see right next to her, there's a there's a huge
15:42
Speaker 9: cinder block laying on the beach.
15:45
Speaker 2: A cinder block. Okay with me. In addition to our
15:49
Speaker 2: all star panel, Ash Short, Senior Editor the Daily Wire,
15:54
Speaker 2: and you can find Ash at the Daily Wire dot com.
15:57
Speaker 2: Ash thank you for being with us and all his
16:00
Speaker 2: many many stories in the past. I think we counted
16:03
Speaker 2: up between eight and Chen the other day. I've never
16:06
Speaker 2: heard him mention a cinder block or beating her with
16:09
Speaker 2: a cinder block before.
16:10
Speaker 10: This is a news story, right, absolutely, it's a completely
16:13
Speaker 10: news story because he says exactly what he did. I mean,
16:17
Speaker 10: his other stories include the lie he told best when
16:21
Speaker 10: he extorted money out of her, where he said that
16:24
Speaker 10: he was buried in the foundation of a house, a
16:27
Speaker 10: house that didn't even exist at the time that she died.
16:30
Speaker 10: I mean, they've said that they left her at the
16:31
Speaker 10: hotel and saw security guard following her footage. Security footage
16:36
Speaker 10: showed that was a lie. I mean, he said all
16:38
Speaker 10: of these different things, and yes, this is the first
16:41
Speaker 10: time a cinder block has been mentioned. And I'm right
16:44
Speaker 10: there with you in this. Can we believe this story?
16:47
Speaker 10: Now he said it in this proper so he's under
16:51
Speaker 10: penalty of perjury. But this story, like any many of
16:54
Speaker 10: his other stories, can't be corroborated. I mean, Beth mentioned
17:00
Speaker 10: polygraph but I mean you and I both know polygraphs.
17:02
Speaker 10: They're in admissible, they're not really reliable. And so unless
17:07
Speaker 10: at some point back in two thousand and five, a
17:09
Speaker 10: bloody cinder block was found and police have that there's
17:13
Speaker 10: no way to corroborate this, and with the twelve year
17:18
Speaker 10: statue of limitations, he won't face anything, which it's convenient
17:21
Speaker 10: that he says it. After those the statue of limitations
17:25
Speaker 10: has gone and it's just there's no way to prove this, So,
17:29
Speaker 10: I mean, we can accept this. We all knew that
17:32
Speaker 10: he did this from the beginning, because of the changing stories,
17:35
Speaker 10: because of the life, because he was the last person
17:37
Speaker 10: to see her, you know. But at this point, is
17:41
Speaker 10: this actually how it happened? I mean, Aukham's razor would
17:45
Speaker 10: kind of say yes, right, but is it actually true?
17:50
Speaker 10: Did anyone else help him? Did the Talipo brothers help
17:53
Speaker 10: him at all? Did his father get involved?
17:56
Speaker 2: Right?
17:56
Speaker 10: These are things that I still have questions about it.
17:59
Speaker 2: I agree with you ask short that and so many
18:02
Speaker 2: other things. The only thing we can really agree on
18:04
Speaker 2: and really know for sure is that he killed her.
18:07
Speaker 2: The rest is a little fuzzy. I want to hear
18:11
Speaker 2: more about that cinder block.
18:12
Speaker 11: Listen, when you say cinder block, looking at the walls
18:16
Speaker 11: of this place is like those.
18:19
Speaker 9: Exact same cinder blocks. I see a huge cinder block
18:22
Speaker 9: laying on the beach. I take this and I smash
18:30
Speaker 9: her head in with it completely. Her face basically, you know,
18:37
Speaker 9: collapses in. Even though it's dark, I can see her
18:40
Speaker 9: faces collapsed in.
18:46
Speaker 8: Afterwards, I don't exactly know what.
18:49
Speaker 10: You know.
18:50
Speaker 9: I'm scared. I don't know what to do.
18:55
Speaker 2: So what does he do with Natalie's body? According to him,
18:59
Speaker 2: and you could take that with a box assault lessen.
19:02
Speaker 9: And I decide to take her and to put her
19:09
Speaker 9: into the ocean. So I grab her and I I
19:14
Speaker 9: have half pool and half walk with her into the ocean.
19:21
Speaker 8: I push her off.
19:24
Speaker 9: I walk up about my knees into the ocean, and
19:27
Speaker 9: I push her off into into the.
19:32
Speaker 8: Into the into the sea.
19:37
Speaker 9: And yeah, after that, I get out, I walk home.
19:44
Speaker 2: I don't believe that with me is professor of forensics
19:48
Speaker 2: at Jacksonville State University. He is the author of Blood
19:51
Speaker 2: Beneath My Fate. More important, he is a death investigator.
19:55
Speaker 2: He has evaluated over one thousand death scene and he's
20:01
Speaker 2: a star on to hit podcast Body Bags with Joe
20:04
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan. Joseph Scott Morgan. It doesn't make sense to
20:09
Speaker 2: me that he would pick up her body and walk
20:13
Speaker 2: out to the water just place it in the water,
20:16
Speaker 2: and that it wouldn't wash up, her body wouldn't wash
20:19
Speaker 2: up or be spotted the next day. I find that
20:22
Speaker 2: very difficult to believe.
20:24
Speaker 12: Every single person on this panel, and I know within
20:27
Speaker 12: your audience a good percentage have been to the beach. Nancy.
20:32
Speaker 12: We know how tied works just on the surface alone.
20:37
Speaker 12: Do you realize how far out into the surf and
20:41
Speaker 12: pass it literally past the serf you would have to
20:44
Speaker 12: go in order to facilitate this to get a human
20:49
Speaker 12: remain out so far that it would not come back
20:52
Speaker 12: into shore or land somewhere. Now, I know that we're
20:54
Speaker 12: talking about an island. However, that's the one thing that
21:00
Speaker 12: kind of sticks with me in this particular case. How
21:03
Speaker 12: do you facilitate getting her remains out there so that
21:06
Speaker 12: you can assure that they're not going to come back
21:08
Speaker 12: in Unless the only thing I can think about, and
21:12
Speaker 12: I put a lot of thought into this since we
21:15
Speaker 12: left Birmingham yesterday, unless he got just incredibly lucky and
21:24
Speaker 12: sea life took over at that point in time in
21:27
Speaker 12: that approximate area and began to do what they do
21:32
Speaker 12: with remains when they find them. But I'm not going
21:36
Speaker 12: to say it's a one in a million shot, but
21:38
Speaker 12: I think therein lies a big question. It's a conundrum
21:42
Speaker 12: when you look at it. Logically, we heard a lot
21:45
Speaker 12: about boats. How I think even he threw his dad
21:49
Speaker 12: under the bus relative to his dad helped him acquire
21:53
Speaker 12: a boat. He's alluded to these brothers having had something
21:58
Speaker 12: to do with the boat. We know that either he
22:00
Speaker 12: nor his dad owned a boat, and for me, it's
22:06
Speaker 12: just an odd thing. And also one other thing, coincidentally,
22:09
Speaker 12: is the proximity of the cinder block that he's alluded to. Now,
22:13
Speaker 12: I have seen in fishing areas where people will beach boats,
22:18
Speaker 12: and they will use center blocks many times to facilitate
22:23
Speaker 12: the beaching of a boat to keep it secured so
22:25
Speaker 12: it's not washed back out. But I'm just saying, this
22:28
Speaker 12: is kind of a random object to find there in
22:31
Speaker 12: this resort area, just lying on the surface of the beach.
22:35
Speaker 12: They want to try to keep these areas pristine and
22:37
Speaker 12: pretty so that tourists walk about. And you're telling me
22:39
Speaker 12: there's a cinder block just happened to be laying there
22:42
Speaker 12: immediately adjacent to Natalie's body. Is kind of odd.
22:46
Speaker 2: Yet we are being told everything that Jurin vander Slut
22:50
Speaker 2: said has been verified by a comprehensive and exhaustive investigation
22:58
Speaker 2: take host on Beth Holloway speaking to that in our
23:01
Speaker 2: cop one.
23:02
Speaker 3: In the course of his family prosecution here for extortion
23:05
Speaker 3: and wire fraud indictment, he gave a proffer in which
23:08
Speaker 3: he finally confessed that he killed Natalie. He described when
23:13
Speaker 3: and how he killed her, and he said that after
23:15
Speaker 3: killing her on the beach in Aruba, he put her
23:18
Speaker 3: into the water, and that was the last that he
23:20
Speaker 3: ever saw her.
23:22
Speaker 4: That was all verified by.
23:23
Speaker 3: A comprehensive and conductive, conclusive polygraph test.
23:28
Speaker 2: Joining us right now is a guest renowned in his field.
23:34
Speaker 2: IRV Brandt is with US Senior Inspector US Marshall Service
23:39
Speaker 2: in the International Investigations Branch, Chief and Inspector DOJ Office
23:45
Speaker 2: of International Affairs. Author of multiple books, including Solo Shot,
23:50
Speaker 2: Curse of the Bluestone, which was great, and Flying Solo
23:54
Speaker 2: Top of the World. Still reading it and you can
23:56
Speaker 2: find him on Twitter at Jack Solo, author IRV Brandt.
24:00
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think how this whole thing is
24:04
Speaker 2: going to play out. There were a few contrarians yesterday
24:11
Speaker 2: that suggested this was a bad deal, and Cheryl, you
24:16
Speaker 2: were there Jo Scott, you were at the courthouse, Cheryl.
24:19
Speaker 2: I was really impressed with the judge as short, if
24:23
Speaker 2: you know anything differently as joining us from the Daily Wire.
24:26
Speaker 2: This judge, I thought was amazing. This was an offer
24:31
Speaker 2: from the state excepted by the defense and approved by
24:35
Speaker 2: Beth and her family. What else can be done? Because
24:41
Speaker 2: a few contrarians were complaining it was a bad deal
24:45
Speaker 2: because he will never be prosecuted for murder in Aruba
24:49
Speaker 2: because this confession cannot be used for a local prosecution.
24:54
Speaker 2: I learned that researching last night. But the reality of
24:57
Speaker 2: Brandt is that Aruba was never going to prosecute him.
25:02
Speaker 2: Even if he had climbed to the top of the
25:04
Speaker 2: Holiday Inn and screamed out I did it. They were
25:07
Speaker 2: never going to prosecute him. They didn't care about a
25:12
Speaker 2: missing American teen girl. They just didn't care. It was
25:15
Speaker 2: very clear to me. I saw it with my own eyes.
25:18
Speaker 2: They were never going to prosecute him for murder. So
25:21
Speaker 2: confession or no confession, that's a wash to me. As
25:24
Speaker 2: far as what can be done now, arub has been
25:27
Speaker 2: out of the picture from the get go Peru the
25:29
Speaker 2: judge of brand and guys jump in if you remember differently,
25:33
Speaker 2: Karen starked, I'm gonna get your opinion on this as well.
25:36
Speaker 2: The judge kept saying yesterday, or she kept saying that
25:42
Speaker 2: should there be any change in your condition in Peru,
25:45
Speaker 2: In other words, the law changed like you did here.
25:47
Speaker 2: That's how Charles Manson has gave the death penalty. The
25:50
Speaker 2: law changed. If the Peruvian law changes and he gets
25:54
Speaker 2: out early, if he is paroled, if he for whatever
25:57
Speaker 2: reason is out of jail, he returned to the US
26:01
Speaker 2: to serve the rest of this twenty year sentence. Now
26:05
Speaker 2: I guarantee you he's not going to book his own
26:07
Speaker 2: boat over here. He would have to be found by
26:09
Speaker 2: the US Marshal Services. Where you come in, orb Brant.
26:13
Speaker 2: But what do you make of what is happening and
26:16
Speaker 2: how is this going to play out when he gets
26:18
Speaker 2: back home to Peru.
26:19
Speaker 13: Well, Lincy, the case is now under the jurisdiction of
26:23
Speaker 13: the United States Marshall Service. The FBI maintains jurisdiction until
26:28
Speaker 13: the time of sentencing. And now that Urine has been
26:34
Speaker 13: sentenced and he's been remanded to the custod of the
26:37
Speaker 13: United States Marshall Service, he's going to be taken back
26:40
Speaker 13: to Peru by the Marshall Service or in cooperation with
26:44
Speaker 13: the FBI. That happens quite frequently also. But he's going
26:49
Speaker 13: back to Peru to serve his sentence, and he's got
26:53
Speaker 13: that federal sentence running concurrently, so it acts as a
26:57
Speaker 13: detainer on him in any case that parole, like you said, a.
27:03
Speaker 11: Law change, an appeal, you know, anything that could happen
27:10
Speaker 11: that may get him released early in Peru.
27:15
Speaker 13: It's going to default the United States, you know, to
27:17
Speaker 13: the United States Marshall Service, going back down there, picking
27:21
Speaker 13: them back up, bringing him back to the United States,
27:25
Speaker 13: putting him in the Federal Bureau of Prisons to serve
27:28
Speaker 13: the rest of his twenty year sentence. The like we
27:33
Speaker 13: discussed previously, Aruba has no interest in him. They've never
27:37
Speaker 13: had any interest in them. They're not going to be
27:39
Speaker 13: asking for him when he's in Peru. And I'm highly skeptical.
27:46
Speaker 6: That even if they did, even if they.
27:49
Speaker 13: Said they were going to prosecute him on something. I
27:53
Speaker 13: don't think Peru would extradite to Aruba because there'd be
27:59
Speaker 13: a real escape. Aruba authorities may release him trial.
28:05
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no way with Peru send him back to Aruba.
28:09
Speaker 2: I mean or if you had seen the way I mean,
28:14
Speaker 2: Cheryl bag me up on this, or if you disagree,
28:17
Speaker 2: say so. There's no way Aruba we would have ever
28:22
Speaker 2: prosecuted this. Even with a confession, they turned away from
28:28
Speaker 2: the truth. I don't know why they wanted to protect
28:33
Speaker 2: him the way that they did, other than his father
28:36
Speaker 2: was a judge and it affected tourism. But there's no
28:40
Speaker 2: way even if Peru had sent him back that they
28:43
Speaker 2: would have prosecuted me. In fact, they probably would have
28:46
Speaker 2: engineered away. He would probably have escaped.
28:48
Speaker 5: Well, they let him escape as far as I'm concerned.
28:51
Speaker 5: After the extortion, they let him get on a plane
28:53
Speaker 5: and go to Peru. They let him leave the island
28:56
Speaker 5: and Nancy, they did everything in their power to help
28:59
Speaker 5: cover up. If you remember, Bed did a police report
29:05
Speaker 5: and when she went back to sign it, they had
29:08
Speaker 5: translated it and it was in Dutch. She didn't even
29:11
Speaker 5: know what she was signing. She couldn't read it.
29:13
Speaker 2: I do remember that, And I also remember Beth telling
29:16
Speaker 2: us that when she was frantically looking for Natalie, she
29:19
Speaker 2: went and waited, i think five hours outside the chief
29:23
Speaker 2: of Police's door his office. He finally came out and
29:29
Speaker 2: he had been having his haircut and eating, eating while
29:34
Speaker 2: his mom is out there waiting. I think five hours.
29:37
Speaker 2: He's behind his office door eating and having somebody cut
29:40
Speaker 2: his hair. And his response was something like, oh, we'll
29:46
Speaker 2: find her. She'll turn up. And that was it.
29:49
Speaker 6: But Nancy, let's talk about the profer. Though in the
29:53
Speaker 6: federal system of profer is only as good as it
29:57
Speaker 6: is truthful. What that means to me is the defense
30:00
Speaker 6: attorney is that he hasn't told the empirety of your crew.
30:05
Speaker 6: In other words, they're lies connected with it. It can
30:08
Speaker 6: later be to through two co conspirators that clearly were
30:13
Speaker 6: involved and should have been charged with some sort of
30:16
Speaker 6: assisting in the homicide.
30:18
Speaker 2: Oh hey, I'm glad you said that. Hold on, del Carson,
30:22
Speaker 2: I want you to hear more of what Jorn vander
30:26
Speaker 2: Slut said from the horse's mouth about the two co defenders.
30:31
Speaker 2: Do you notice how in this which I believe to
30:33
Speaker 2: be largely let me just say embellish to protect his
30:37
Speaker 2: father and the Kalipo brothers. The father is dead, Yourn
30:42
Speaker 2: Vanderslute gave his dat a heart attack. The Kalpo brothers
30:45
Speaker 2: are very much alive and could tell the truth. So
30:51
Speaker 2: he manages to clear them of any involvement. Take a listen,
30:54
Speaker 2: ower Cup one two for this is your vanderslout.
30:57
Speaker 14: In his own words, Puss, she asked to go back
31:00
Speaker 14: to her hotel, But I was just trying to get
31:03
Speaker 14: dropped off a little bit further away from her hotel
31:06
Speaker 14: so we could walk back to her hotel.
31:08
Speaker 8: And I might still get a chance to be with her.
31:13
Speaker 8: That's what I was hoping for. Okay, So what happens.
31:18
Speaker 9: Yeah, the puck drops me off at a place a
31:21
Speaker 9: little right of the of the Marriott hotel known as
31:25
Speaker 9: the Fishermen's Huts. This place, it's not so far from
31:32
Speaker 9: you know. The next hotel is the Marriott. In the
31:34
Speaker 9: next hotel after that is another Marriott, which is a timeshare,
31:37
Speaker 9: and then it's the holiday and.
31:43
Speaker 8: Well we walk along the beach.
31:45
Speaker 2: So there, you say, he's protecting them so they'll never
31:50
Speaker 2: go back on him and say what really happened that night.
31:55
Speaker 2: Regardless hearing this and knowing this evidence about the cinder
32:01
Speaker 2: block and what was done to her daughter, Beth Holloway
32:06
Speaker 2: manages to put on a good face and stay strong,
32:12
Speaker 2: becoming somewhat of a symbol to parents all over the
32:16
Speaker 2: country whose children have been murdered. Let's now recut one
32:20
Speaker 2: three six. This is Beth Holloway.
32:22
Speaker 4: It feels victorious.
32:24
Speaker 3: I feel like you finally begin to transition from the
32:27
Speaker 3: victim to the victor, and it begins to make the
32:31
Speaker 3: pain and suffering feel somewhat less intense because you are here.
32:36
Speaker 3: You are at this point the pinnacle of the journey,
32:38
Speaker 3: and you've gotten justice and you've gotten the answers you've
32:40
Speaker 3: been so desperately seeking. So it felt victorious.
32:44
Speaker 2: And more in one three five.
32:46
Speaker 3: This has been the most unimaginable journey, and I know
32:50
Speaker 3: everyone has been with us on this and we were
32:54
Speaker 3: so appreciative of it. But for us to finally put
32:58
Speaker 3: this to rest and be as I said, it's better
33:02
Speaker 3: than closure because our never ending nightmare had to end.
33:06
Speaker 3: And we are so grateful that we can say that
33:09
Speaker 3: today that it is over.
33:12
Speaker 15: And that is getting justice for Natalie.
33:28
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace joining us is or.
33:31
Speaker 2: Now psychologist, TV and radio trauma expert consultant Karen Stark
33:37
Speaker 2: Karen with a c at Karen dot com. Karen, I
33:42
Speaker 2: know Beth was being brave, and she was incredibly brave
33:46
Speaker 2: in the courtroom. In fact, there was one point Cheryl
33:50
Speaker 2: tell Karen about when Beth Allway turned around and what
33:58
Speaker 2: she said to Vandersloot.
34:00
Speaker 5: She looked right at him and said, you don't look
34:04
Speaker 5: good your hands. I don't think you're gonna make it.
34:07
Speaker 2: You look like hell, I don't think you're gonna make it.
34:09
Speaker 2: And he did, Karen Stark, he looked so dissipated, nothing
34:14
Speaker 2: like he has ever looked in any of the videos
34:17
Speaker 2: or the photos we've seen before. This looked like an
34:21
Speaker 2: old guy that has been drinking too much, having too
34:25
Speaker 2: many drugs, eating too much. Behind bars. We know he's
34:30
Speaker 2: fathered I think two children behind bars, he's gotten married,
34:33
Speaker 2: has gotten divorced for a younger woman. Where do you
34:35
Speaker 2: meet a younger woman behind bars? Anyway, he looks nothing
34:41
Speaker 2: like he did when he murdered Natalie, when she turned
34:45
Speaker 2: around and looked at him and went, you look like hell.
34:49
Speaker 2: I don't think you're gonna make it. But my question
34:53
Speaker 2: to you, Karen Stark, is it's like a performance. It's
34:58
Speaker 2: okay to keep your game face and stay strong. And
35:01
Speaker 2: it was a long, grueling day for her, and a
35:05
Speaker 2: day that she's probably dreamed off for many many years.
35:09
Speaker 2: But I find it hard to believe that at night,
35:11
Speaker 2: when she puts her head on that pillow, she doesn't
35:13
Speaker 2: think about her girl, Nancy.
35:15
Speaker 16: She will never ever stop thinking about her girl, which
35:18
Speaker 16: she said. And I feel like she really needed this
35:23
Speaker 16: to be closure for her, to be the end.
35:25
Speaker 2: You know, there's no closure for a crime victim. I
35:28
Speaker 2: don't know why you keep saying that. Karen Stark, Well, she.
35:30
Speaker 16: Needed some kind of finality. She needed this to be
35:34
Speaker 16: the end. She needed to hear him say that he
35:37
Speaker 16: killed her. And let's face it, Nancy, listen to his voice.
35:41
Speaker 16: This is a man who has no feelings. He could
35:45
Speaker 16: be reciting a book, reading a poem to us, no
35:48
Speaker 16: feelings at all. He went home, he watched TV, he
35:53
Speaker 16: watched porn.
35:54
Speaker 2: WHOA hold on Mustang? Sally, Wait a minute, can you
35:59
Speaker 2: say that a look a little bit more slowly.
36:01
Speaker 5: Well, that's what we heard, that he went home.
36:04
Speaker 2: We heard what we heard that he went home.
36:07
Speaker 16: That he looked at soccer scores, that he watched horn.
36:12
Speaker 16: It reminds me of when he killed Floris and he
36:15
Speaker 16: ate breakfast and took his shower, no ceiling.
36:20
Speaker 2: With her dead body lying right there on the hotel room.
36:23
Speaker 16: Floor right there, right there, and I doesn't and I
36:26
Speaker 16: found it doesn't interesting?
36:28
Speaker 2: Is that ass jump in?
36:30
Speaker 5: Yeah?
36:30
Speaker 10: In the courtroom yesterday, Vanderslleut reportedly said that you know,
36:34
Speaker 10: I'm not the man I was back then, and that
36:36
Speaker 10: a way that stuck out to me, because the man
36:40
Speaker 10: you were back when in two thousand and five when
36:42
Speaker 10: you killed Natalie Holloway, or the man you were in
36:44
Speaker 10: twenty ten when you extorted her family and then murdered Flora.
36:49
Speaker 10: When did you have this change? And when did it
36:52
Speaker 10: happen happy to occur after the statute of limitations and
36:56
Speaker 10: he did in vaccine? Why does he have no feeling
36:59
Speaker 10: and now confessing when if you had this changed and
37:03
Speaker 10: he was a new person, why didn't you say anything?
37:05
Speaker 4: Then?
37:06
Speaker 2: You know what, it's really interesting the timing as short
37:09
Speaker 2: ass joining us in the daily wire. You're absolutely right.
37:12
Speaker 2: He suddenly has a change of heart and actually brings
37:15
Speaker 2: up that he has now met Christ behind bars, and
37:20
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm all for that and he can
37:23
Speaker 2: minister to other inmates behind bars for the rest of
37:26
Speaker 2: his life. But he just had to get that in.
37:29
Speaker 2: Is that you, Karen start.
37:30
Speaker 16: Go ahead, Yes, it is, because there's no way that
37:33
Speaker 16: he changed.
37:33
Speaker 5: It's not possible.
37:35
Speaker 16: We are talking about somebody who was a murder of psychopath.
37:38
Speaker 5: He doesn't change.
37:40
Speaker 16: And I want to add something that whole story with
37:43
Speaker 16: the cinder block. I feel as he was looking around
37:46
Speaker 16: and he saw cinder blocks, and then he said, oh,
37:49
Speaker 16: you know, that would be a good thing to put
37:50
Speaker 16: into my story. I'll mention a cinder block, because we
37:55
Speaker 16: can't believe a single thing that he said.
37:57
Speaker 2: There was a moment in that courtroom that really twisted
38:03
Speaker 2: my heart when Beth was describing how Natalie will always
38:10
Speaker 2: be alive for her, that she's frozen in time at
38:15
Speaker 2: eighteen with the world before her. Now that was not
38:19
Speaker 2: being recorded. I can only do a secondhand version of
38:24
Speaker 2: what Beth really said, but she said something to that
38:28
Speaker 2: effect after court. Listen to our one three eight.
38:33
Speaker 3: Natalie was a very bright, very smart, dedicated young lady.
38:36
Speaker 4: She was on her way to college.
38:39
Speaker 3: She was headed to medical school after that, and.
38:41
Speaker 4: I have no doubt she would have made it all
38:43
Speaker 4: the way.
38:44
Speaker 3: So we love her, we miss her very much, and
38:48
Speaker 3: we wake up every morning with thoughts of Natalie. But
38:51
Speaker 3: now we wake up knowing that we have reached justice
38:54
Speaker 3: for Natalie.
38:55
Speaker 4: She was truly the best sister I could have ever
38:58
Speaker 4: asked for.
38:59
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Kosha feels so bad from Matt Holloway, the brother
39:03
Speaker 2: and all that family has been through our Brant. You're
39:07
Speaker 2: the US Marshall's expert. Tell me again, if his sentence
39:13
Speaker 2: is reduced for any reason in Peru, will we get
39:17
Speaker 2: him back to serve the remainder of the twenty years
39:20
Speaker 2: he just got in the Hugo Black Federal Courthouse on extortion.
39:23
Speaker 13: Absolutely nanty the Office of International Affairs and cooperating with
39:31
Speaker 13: the proving government. We'll keep track of this case and
39:37
Speaker 13: they will be notified by Peru if for some reason
39:42
Speaker 13: his release state changes and the United States Marshall Service
39:47
Speaker 13: would go down there, get them, bring them back to
39:51
Speaker 13: the United States, and he would be placed in a
39:54
Speaker 13: bure prisons facility to finish his senate He's going to
40:02
Speaker 13: do the next twenty years.
40:03
Speaker 2: This guy needs to be in sapromax are brand not
40:06
Speaker 2: conjugal visits and a jug of wine over in his
40:10
Speaker 2: Peruvian penthouse in the prison. As short I believe I
40:14
Speaker 2: heard the number of twenty forty three. Is that when
40:18
Speaker 2: he could be released?
40:20
Speaker 10: Yes, but he was sentenced to twenty eight years for
40:24
Speaker 10: the murder, but he was also I believe, given an
40:28
Speaker 10: additional eighteen years because he was selling drugs in prison.
40:33
Speaker 10: I don't know if that's running concurrent, so I mean
40:37
Speaker 10: it could be a long time, but there is a
40:39
Speaker 10: finality to his sentence, So twenty forty three.
40:42
Speaker 13: Yes.
40:43
Speaker 10: And the thing when I go back to him saying
40:46
Speaker 10: he's a changed man. If he hadn't been captured for
40:52
Speaker 10: Stephanie Flores's death, I mean, this guy would have been
40:55
Speaker 10: an international serial killer, right, Like what would have stopped him?
40:58
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right? Now, wonder have there been other victims?
41:02
Speaker 10: Right exactly? Because we know, okay, Aruba, have other people
41:05
Speaker 10: gone missing? What about in Peru the time after he
41:09
Speaker 10: extorted Natalie's mother, the FBI and Aruba police like allowed
41:14
Speaker 10: him to go to Columbia. So is anybody missing in Columbia?
41:19
Speaker 10: You know? I mean these other places. And him saying
41:22
Speaker 10: that he's a changed person, like if he gets out,
41:25
Speaker 10: I don't see him just going and living a quiet
41:29
Speaker 10: life or anything. I mean, this is a person who,
41:32
Speaker 10: at seventeen years old was turned down by a woman
41:36
Speaker 10: and kicked her in the space, and then his thoughts
41:38
Speaker 10: were to murder her.
41:39
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if we need any other evidence, then
41:42
Speaker 2: what Ash Short is giving us. Just Scott Morgan, it's
41:46
Speaker 2: been in the last handful of years that he impregnated
41:51
Speaker 2: a woman from behind bars, married her, had at least
41:56
Speaker 2: one I think two children with her, and then dumped
41:59
Speaker 2: her for a younger jail visitor. Don't the mother of
42:03
Speaker 2: his two children for a younger woman. I mean, this
42:07
Speaker 2: guy has not changed.
42:09
Speaker 12: No, he hasn't. And here here's the thing. You know,
42:11
Speaker 12: when you compare what happened to this poor woman, Stephanie
42:15
Speaker 12: in Peru, the brutality. You know, some people have described
42:20
Speaker 12: that scene as being a wash and blood. It's not
42:23
Speaker 12: too far removed from the trauma that he's talking about
42:26
Speaker 12: that that he inflicted upon Natalie at that moment in
42:29
Speaker 12: tom But I do have one more thought about this Nancy,
42:33
Speaker 12: relative to this kind of serial behavior that he's engaged in.
42:39
Speaker 12: We've heard a lot about hibbinol GHB date rape drug,
42:45
Speaker 12: and I really wonder Nancy, after all these years, if
42:49
Speaker 12: he's if he was bold enough to perpetrate this and
42:53
Speaker 12: in that environment in which he had, he apparently just
42:56
Speaker 12: had free reign. You know, I talked about being a
42:58
Speaker 12: spoiled brat down there being facilitated by you know, he's feral,
43:02
Speaker 12: is essentially what it comes down to. I really wonder.
43:07
Speaker 12: One of the profiles that was put forth, and some
43:10
Speaker 12: of the things that have been suggested about him, is
43:12
Speaker 12: that he would track women that he knew we're leaving
43:17
Speaker 12: like the next day, and the bartenders were onto it,
43:20
Speaker 12: Taxi drivers were onto it, hotel managers perhaps were onto it.
43:25
Speaker 12: How many of these women, How many of these poor
43:28
Speaker 12: women out there did he attack on their last night
43:32
Speaker 12: in Aruba? And just out of pure shame, these women
43:37
Speaker 12: got on a plane just wanting to put that behind them,
43:40
Speaker 12: and they never spoke a word about it. Nancy, how
43:42
Speaker 12: many other women are out there that this guy victimized?
43:46
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Dale, Joseph.
43:47
Speaker 6: That's a really excellent point, because in those areas where
43:53
Speaker 6: people go to visit, like Aruba, it's not unusual for
43:57
Speaker 6: there'd be a concept of individuals who prey on those tourists,
44:03
Speaker 6: and that's something that everyone wants to suppress because it's
44:06
Speaker 6: in the better interests of these communities that live on
44:10
Speaker 6: tourism to not have that exposed at all. But it
44:13
Speaker 6: was certainly true when I was working in the Virgin Islands,
44:17
Speaker 6: and those systems were in place and had been there
44:20
Speaker 6: for quite some period of time. And it's not unlike
44:22
Speaker 6: a school of fish. If you're around a school of
44:25
Speaker 6: baked fish, you will see in the perimeters the arracuda
44:29
Speaker 6: just mysteriously appearing and disappearing because they're waiting for our meal.
44:34
Speaker 6: And that's vandersloop.
44:36
Speaker 5: Nancy, I got to jump in here, go ahead, dear.
44:38
Speaker 5: I want to remind everybody that they recovered human bones
44:42
Speaker 5: that were mixed with dog bones, and then Ruba just
44:45
Speaker 5: let that.
44:45
Speaker 2: Go and they were were they of a female European descent? Correct?
44:52
Speaker 2: So who was that and how did he know they
44:54
Speaker 2: were there? Which tells me there's another victim exactly right.
44:58
Speaker 5: So if you look at his he gets females alone,
45:02
Speaker 5: he isolates them from their group, He gives them the GHB.
45:06
Speaker 5: He attempts sex with them. Then these two victims stepany
45:09
Speaker 5: floors and Natalie Holloway refused him. He bludgeoned them first
45:14
Speaker 5: with a part of his body, then picked up an object,
45:17
Speaker 5: in both cases on the same date, causing great bloodshed.
45:22
Speaker 5: These were impulsive acts, and again he beat them until
45:26
Speaker 5: they were dead and then in one regard he went home,
45:29
Speaker 5: watched TV, watch porn. In the other he went and
45:33
Speaker 5: had breakfast like it.
45:34
Speaker 2: Was nothing, absolutely nothing. The words from Beth Holloway will
45:40
Speaker 2: forever ring in my mind, and my mind and my heart.
45:48
Speaker 2: Natalie will be forever eighteen goodbye friend,