Latest / Authentic Living / Psychological Hazards in the Workplace and the ROR: Return On Relationships (Part II) with Linda Crockett

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Psychological Hazards in the Workplace and the ROR: Return On Relationships (Part II) with Linda Crockett · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Our interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 0:41
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:45
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
• 0:51
  amazing conversation.
• 0:53
  Everyone, it's this is Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:56
  It's yet again another week, and I have a another amazing a guest with me, Linda
• 1:00
  Crockett, Linda, attended a a a Powell that we have not too long ago and it was well received.
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  And I asked Linda to come back today to speak a little bit more on her expertise, which is
• 1:14
  psychological hazards in please.
• 1:16
  So Linda, thanks for coming in today.
• 1:18
  Happy to be here.
• 1:19
  Thanks for having me back.
• 1:21
  Oh, well, you know what?
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  I always love when my my guests come back and spend some more time with you with me.
• 1:27
  Sorry.
• 1:27
  So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Linda and, we'll we'll fell a little bit more into
• 1:32
  her background, but she's an international specialist for preventing and addressing
• 1:36
  workplace psychological hazards.
• 1:39
  And she's the founder of the Canadian Institute for Workplace Building Resources.
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  So we have to have some level of self insight our finger on our own pulse of when have we
• 1:51
  reached our limit that where we might become that person who bite somebody else and we might
• 1:56
  need to reach out and get ourselves an executive coach or a therapist for that matter.
• 2:01
  So if we're struggling, we need to be self accountable Right?
• 2:07
  Yeah.
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  And if you're that employee who's being bit several times because the the, leader is
• 2:13
  stressed out understanding that there's reasons going on, you have a right to say, I don't
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  deserve that.
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  You need to stop and find another way to manage your stress.
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  And on ultimately, if it's, you know, if it's the lack of awareness and it comes to the
• 2:32
  leaders, attention, that ultimately it's up to the leader to recognize, woah.
• 2:38
  You know, I I just went through the separation or, you know, I'm having some struggles with a
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  loss or whatever, and we're all human.
• 2:46
  Right?
• 2:47
  You know, gone in the days where we believe we leave, you know, professional in that at, you
• 2:52
  know, at the office, you hit the the front door of your home.
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  Now we're in such different worlds.
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  Whereas when I was in corporate, that was the that was the given line, by the way.
• 3:02
  You forget the professional Roxanne and who will you bring the professional Roxanne to
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  work?
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  She works 12 hours and she picks up the, you know, the personal Roxanne to go home Again,
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  I'm not sure how they thought that was possible, but that was the world that I was
• 3:15
  living in when I was in corporate.
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  So I think absolutely.
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  And, you know, with my work with, my new book, I talk a lot about responsibility of leaders,
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  and what I call the ROR, which is return our relationship, which is to be which ultimately
• 3:29
  awareness is the biggest umbrella in leadership.
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  You are leaders have acumen and capacity.
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  So they are brought up and and brought into these roles that with that comes a a a huge
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  responsibility, for the fact that you are, you know, leading people that have full lives and
• 3:46
  they're looking to you for guidance.
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  And if you're if you're inept or impaired, you know, I don't know if inept would be though
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  impaired it's your responsibility to get the help to be able to be optimally functioning.
• 3:59
  Well, there are leaders out there that are in that.
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  There are leaders out there that are impaired.
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  There are these positions that they shouldn't be in.
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  And a lot of leaders know that.
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  You know, so there's a little bit of imposter syndrome going on.
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  I wonder wonder when I'm gonna get caught.
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  You know, so we need to do our due diligence for leaders and set them up for success.
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  We need to put them in positions where they're qualified for And if they're not qualified and
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  we believe in them, then let's train them.
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  Let's mentor them.
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  Let's monitor them.
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  And let's and, you know, confident competent leaders don't harass their staff.
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  Confident competent leaders don't bully their staff.
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  You know, so that says it all right there.
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  Research shows it's quite a high percentage that is bullying top down So that tells us we
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  have a problem in the leadership area.
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  Let's solve that problem.
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  Let's make sure we're not hiring our friends because we owe a favor or sister because we owe
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  them a favor.
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  Let's watch that nepotism stuff.
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  Let's let's follow those policies.
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  Absolutely.
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  So important.
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  Now let's we talked a little bit about the the stats, and I I'm curious.
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  In the world that I lived in, we looked at, you know, trending analysis about, you know, you
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  know, what were the core issues that, kept people away from work and how to intervene
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  early enough.
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  If they were to get coaching or or therapy, they would obviously you know, mitigate the
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  concern that's coming down the pike.
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  They can get the help.
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  They would get supports, whether it's family concerns, financial, legal, whatever.
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  Now with with bullying, what is what is the data?
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  Because I know at the point, that some of the trending that I was talking about, only 5% of
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  the training analysis for some of these behavioral health firms, short workplace
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  concerns.
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  What what are you seeing?
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  Cause I'm thinking I often say with 65%, and I'm sure the data has this is all information
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  I'm going by.
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  But 65% was generally around relationship, which is the bulk of the cases across North
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  America.
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  Only about 5% was around workplace.
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  So tell me your take on that because, you know,
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  safe speaking up.
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  People do not feel safe coming forward.
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  And no matter what the surveys say, they still don't feel safe.
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  This, this creates a little bit of paranoia in people.
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  So when I'm in, I'm teaching a class, and I've been teaching on this topic for 10 years now.
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  So that's a lot, a lot of classes.
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  I always ask the question, how many in this room know someone, including yourself, that
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  might have been bullied in the workplace, and I honestly, every time 98 to a 100% hands go up,
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  that's not representative in the surveys, in the research.
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  You know, but in person, when you create safety and you create some sort of, you know,
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  relationship with them as you're teaching them and they feel safe enough, they'll put their
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  hand up.
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  At the end of the class, I'll put my hand.
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  I'll ask them again, and it's 100% consistently, you know, so I don't believe the
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  stats are giving us the the you know, we know that because of the work, how busy we are, the
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  surveys that I do see, this is the number one top all the time, government surveys are always
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  showing workplace psychological safety being the number one choice that the the employees
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  are putting out that I want some work some training in this area, or I want some
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  improvements in this area.
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  So I don't think the stats are accurate.
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  Well, absolutely not.
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  If you're if you're flooded, you you're having all this coming at you and I'm telling you, you
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  know, and I'm talking about that in the, you know, 2000s to mid 2000s, then, you know, and
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  we're we're in 20 13 years later, what and that data is incongruent from what you're seeing
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  clearly, it's that space.
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  It's that awareness that's coming to light that if I come forward and, I mean, I, you know,
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  have I've been through multiple scenarios.
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  Wherein in my career now over 30 years.
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  And I'm, you know, a psychotherapist, I, you know, and had been in those varying
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  environments.
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  And I would I there was one environment where I was literally I was bullied and I stood up.
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  And, when I stood up, there was stuff that supposedly got brought to my attention, like
• 8:25
  your day sheets or whatever that I was pillfering time, and that was never the case.
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  And I made the choice at that point because I had such, you know, background, and I knew I
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  could, you know, be employed the next day that I made the choice to to make that turn before
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  it should be deal with it.
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  I had choice and ability to but my concern is everybody should have that ability to be able
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  to stand up Right?
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  Because I said, you know what?
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  I'm not dealing with this because I know this person, had believed others, and I thought, I'm
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  too late stage career here to deal with this and I just jump ship, but I feel for others
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  that feel like I don't, you know, may not have as much choice.
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  I can't move around as much.
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  And then what happens to those individuals?
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  Well, you know, that's a good segue to tell you that I, you know, over about 20 months ago, I
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  started a a second company, and it's a not for profit.
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  It's called the Canadian Institute of Perasvin and Violence.
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  And the reason I started that was because I've seen all these people that come into me that
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  have exhausted their savings, their RSPs, their life savings, and some of them have lost their
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  homes like, I know a nurse that lost her home.
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  I know a teacher that lost their home, fighting for their rights, and they were right.
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  They had a hell of a case.
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  But the the the system is so broken.
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  You know, it's literally destroying these people.
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  So I thought we have to start raising funds So that these people have an opportunity to get at
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  least a legal consult and a legal letter.
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  That might just be the the last piece of courage they need to speak out, right?
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  Because most people are not speaking up.
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  They don't they don't have the ability that others do, that financial ability and and maybe
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  they don't wanna make a complaint, but they need treatment because a lot of people, I my my
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  saying is you need to choose recovery with or without justice.
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  I did.
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  I chose recovery without justice.
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  My justice is the work I do today, but I didn't get justice, but we have to we can't wait for
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  justice to show up to choose for our recover.
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  We have to put ourselves first.
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  This fund is that we've we started is is to either give them some legal consult or some
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  treatment.
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  Because they have a that's another injustice that they can't access that.
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  It's another injustice.
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  So we're we're launching that on October 20th we're doing a big event, in Toronto, Ontario.
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  I think you have your poster up, our poster up on your side.
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  But it's it's up, and I am going So I hope that, you know, anybody listening comes and
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  hangs out with us because we're we're gonna have, it's gonna be an amazing event and, you
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  know, can I say something?
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  Yeah.
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  And this is an interesting fact.
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  In other words, you're making me think through the data.
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  So this firm that I worked for, the legal consults, the only exclusion was if there was
• 11:19
  any concerns against the employer.
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  Does that surprise you?
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  No.
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  I get it's just it's it's just like neon lights going off for me right now as you're saying
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  this as I'm trying to substantiate the data and I'm thinking, was the data there all along?
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  Because you could not use a legal consultation if it was against the employer.
• 11:41
  Yeah.
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  There's a lot.
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  So, hence, we were getting skewed data then because if I'm I remember when I was
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  separating, I'd use them for a consultation, right, because I wanted to find out what my
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  basic rights were.
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  But if that issue was against the employer, I would not have been able to use that same legal
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  consultation.
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  Right.
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  So that really makes sense now that you're saying you know, and what need, your event,
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  will raise highlights this issue for and and also funds because if there's a lot of people
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  having issues and they can't afford a lawyer because we know how, expensive this can be,
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  then where do people go?
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  Yeah.
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  I'm thankfully, we're getting some lawyers and some therapists that are willing to reduce
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  their fee for for these people that we are gonna help fund.
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  So we need to get a good bucket of funds in there, but we also are developing an app
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  because there's nothing out there for an injured worker who's confused and fatigued and
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  distraught and shock to pick up a phone and go, where do I go?
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  Who do I ask?
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  What do I do?
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  And what if they're no good?
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  You know, like, what if HR's bullying me?
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  What if my union's bullying me?
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  What if, you know, I forgot to mention in my bob mobbing group there was a pastor too.
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  So, I mean, where'd I mean, it's happening in the churches too.
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  It's just happening everywhere.
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  So we're developing an actual app so that people can navigate these systems, these these
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  systems that are broken that have gaps in them.
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  We wanna develop this app for these injured workers so that we can decrease their harm
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  because navigating the the system creates more harm, we can we can expedite their recovery
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  because they're making some informed decisions We're showing them what's out there.
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  That's another reason we're raising this funds.
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  Like, we're 20 months into this creation.
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  We're almost there.
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  But we've gotta pay someone now to transfer it to a full nap because we wanna be able to
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  empower people.
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  We want more people coming forward We want this this taken more seriously.
• 13:44
  That will shift this a little bit faster to get some liquid.
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  We used to do a domestic violence since result.
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  We used to blame the victims.
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  Right?
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  We always shamed and isolated the victims.
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  We've come a long way We've got services.
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  We've got commercials on TVs, commercials on the buses.
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  We've got really good programs and grants for those now.
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  We're doing better.
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  We're not shaming and blaming the victim, but we're still doing this to the targets of
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  workplace bullying, workplace harassment.
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  So we need to shift this.
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  And I think that means empower people's voices.
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  Give them some support and some courage.
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  And let them know they're not alone.
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  And so the one thing I wanna say before I forget it is if if you're someone who's going
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  through this, whether you're a leader or an and you don't feel safe coming forward to anybody
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  and internally, then go externally because there are resources outside that can help you
• 14:41
  process and develop a strategy that's safe and right for you.
• 14:46
  And, you know, again, yet again, you're making me think because I was part of the bureaucratic
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  structure.
• 14:52
  So as the executive, if there were any trends related to the employer, generally, my
• 15:00
  directive was to feed that back to, the senior management's around leadership, around HR, or
• 15:08
  even the senior team.
• 15:10
  So if you do and Hey, I dealt with a lot of amazing companies.
• 15:16
  If there was something of that nature, but let's say there was, some endemic occurring
• 15:23
  within a within a particular sector or a company where it needed to be highlighted so
• 15:28
  people could be safe.
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  That bottleneck would get created, there there would be no checks and balances, so that those
• 15:36
  employees could, in fact, get the support that they needed.
• 15:39
  So, you know, a flawed system, when when those people can hide, But for employers, and like
• 15:47
  you said, you you you're giving out some awards.
• 15:49
  I'd love to know some of the names of the employers, unless you dot secrets.
• 15:54
  He just do, the secret cheese.
• 15:56
  Alright.
• 15:57
  Well, maybe we'll have to talk about it after.
• 16:00
  Because
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  there are a lot of employees that are doing it well, and people that I have come in contact
• 16:05
  with that are open and willing to learn and, oh, I didn't realize that was a thing.
• 16:10
  And, you know, that and they're willing to implement, not just because of the law, but now
• 16:16
  we have law, right, that people, employees can come forward and they could they have to be an
• 16:21
  investigation by a neutral third party and all those things, but I I don't know that a lot of
• 16:27
  employees might know that.
• 16:28
  And if they're in environments, that are shrouding, the facts about what needs to get
• 16:33
  done.
• 16:34
  I think it's important, you know, that the people know what their rights are.
• 16:38
  Absolutely.
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  I mean, they should be informed.
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  They should be all they should be neutral.
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  And, you know, I have a problem with HR investigating any kind of, workplace
• 16:47
  psychological harassment because there's already a bias there.
• 16:50
  You're you're employed by this person, and it might be one of your leaders that is bullying
• 16:55
  this have.
• 16:56
  So I say, yes, 3rd party investigator, but make sure that investigator is trauma informed.
• 17:01
  So it truly
• 17:03
  are buying into 0 tolerance.
• 17:05
  If you truly want a psychological safe workplace and you want you care about your
• 17:10
  employee's mental health, you care about retaining them, you wanna keep these good,
• 17:15
  these employees, then invest in trauma informed in-depth training on this topic because it's
• 17:20
  all about prevention, intervention, early intervention crisis intervention, but doing it
• 17:26
  right.
• 17:26
  And repair and recovery options.
• 17:28
  Right?
• 17:29
  So it's not just about policies and procedures.
• 17:31
  It's about solutions.
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  What is it?
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  What does it look like?
• 17:33
  What does it feel like?
• 17:34
  What should I do about it?
• 17:36
  That's the way that you're gonna get a shift in your environment, and people are gonna say,
• 17:40
  well, my employer really does care about me to invest in this.
• 17:44
  If you do Right.
• 17:45
  So so that's good for the employer, but let's say I'm an employee and I'm listening to this.
• 17:49
  I'm like, woah.
• 17:50
  You know, I I don't know what to do, Linda.
• 17:53
  Like, I've been dealing with somebody and maybe I'm personalizing a bit, but I know it's kind
• 17:59
  of a thing.
• 18:00
  And I know I'm having symptoms where, you know, I'm dreading going to work.
• 18:05
  I'm dreading having meetings.
• 18:08
  You know, I'm not focusing and forgetting what's being said to me one to one.
• 18:12
  I have all those are the basic symptoms of dysregulation.
• 18:16
  Yeah.
• 18:17
  What are some simple steps that you would suggest that people take?
• 18:21
  To start understanding what they need, but also the process of, getting some support in their
• 18:27
  workplace.
• 18:28
  Well, first of all, that training is for staff too, by the way, because they should be trauma
• 18:32
  informed as well.
• 18:33
  So they will get all the answers to those questions you just came up with because they're
• 18:36
  all gonna go, oh my gosh, that's me.
• 18:38
  Because we'll give them stories.
• 18:40
  We'll give them examples.
• 18:42
  But if you already feel like something's not right, trust your gut trust it.
• 18:47
  It's and don't override it.
• 18:48
  Typically, the client's IC override that gut.
• 18:52
  Override that that sign, that feeling, that sense, that dark cloud, something's we override
• 18:58
  it.
• 18:58
  It it maybe it's easier to override it and try to fix it and be better.
• 19:04
  And that's typically what we do.
• 19:05
  We work harder.
• 19:06
  We do more.
• 19:08
  We're trying to fix this, prove to the employer that we're the best employee it could ever ask
• 19:13
  for.
• 19:14
  So we end up, you know, contributing to burnout because we we become hyper vigilant.
• 19:19
  So if you're already noticing that you've got some acid reflux or you've got a knot in your
• 19:23
  gut or your blood pressure's going up, you're in trouble.
• 19:26
  You're already injured.
• 19:28
  And these are the early warning signs.
• 19:30
  So number 1, get to a doctor.
• 19:32
  Your doctor should be monitoring.
• 19:34
  Your doctor should be documenting.
• 19:36
  That's a professional documenting on your behalf.
• 19:39
  Make sure you're documenting because you're probably pretty fatigued by now.
• 19:46
  You're losing sleep wondering what just happened, how am I gonna prevent that from
• 19:50
  happening tomorrow?
• 19:51
  I can't believe this happened, so you're not sleeping well.
• 19:54
  Your your memory starts to become impacted when your brain is inflamed.
• 19:59
  Your brain is inflamed when you're constantly under stress.
• 20:03
  So you're not losing your mind.
• 20:05
  You're not losing your memory.
• 20:06
  You're not you're not early onset dementia.
• 20:09
  Your brain is inflamed.
• 20:11
  And so now you can't think straight.
• 20:13
  You can't focus.
• 20:14
  You can't read a sentence.
• 20:16
  You're struggling.
• 20:17
  And now you've got self doubt happening and questioning.
• 20:20
  Is it my fault?
• 20:21
  I just too stupid?
• 20:23
  This is all injury we're talking about.
• 20:25
  This is injury.
• 20:27
  So get out and talk to somebody.
• 20:29
  Get to a therapist that knows this kind of injury.
• 20:33
  Phone and ask us for a quick consult.
• 20:35
  If you're just not sure, you know, I call it a sanity check.
• 20:39
  You know, just reach out for a sanity check because basically that's what it is.
• 20:44
  We're gonna give you some of this kind of support validation, a little bit of education,
• 20:49
  and we'll help figure out where to go next.
• 20:51
  What's the best next step for you?
• 20:53
  Because maybe it's not sick leave.
• 20:55
  Maybe it's not leaving the job.
• 20:58
  Maybe it's staying put.
• 20:59
  Whatever you decide to do is gonna be right for you, but we can help you get there.
• 21:04
  Don't quit.
• 21:05
  Don't quit.
• 21:06
  Don't do that.
• 21:07
  Takes the time away.
• 21:08
  Call one of us, but document not only because you're gonna need those facts for credibility
• 21:16
  if a complaint does get put forward and an investigation happens, but document also for
• 21:21
  your mental health because know, today is what?
• 21:26
  August 28th.
• 21:27
  I think a month from now, you're gonna forget what happened August 28th, August 30th.
• 21:32
  September 1st, September 6th, you're gonna forget all that stuff.
• 21:35
  It gets mumbo jumbo, and you're gonna need it to go back and get a sanity check Was I am
• 21:40
  making that up?
• 21:41
  Was I imagining that?
• 21:43
  You're gonna go back to your notes and go, no, I'm not crazy.
• 21:46
  So it's for your mental health too.
• 21:48
  So you can sleep at night knowing it's in that binder at home, one spot, make sure there's no
• 21:53
  clientele information in there.
• 21:55
  But that documentation through your mental health and your credibility if a complaint ever
• 22:00
  came forward.
• 22:01
  Great advice.
• 22:03
  Most people aren't thinking about that.
• 22:04
  Right?
• 22:05
  They're probably just getting trying to get through day to day.
• 22:09
  That's Let's make sure we talk about the events.
• 22:13
  And like I said, I'm super excited.
• 22:16
  We've not met in person, so I'll meet Linda in person.
• 22:18
  And for anybody that has been listening and hanging out with me, for this podcast.
• 22:23
  I would love, it, you know, come out and and enjoy a night out.
• 22:28
  It's in Toronto.
• 22:29
  And, just, you know, to a to a great cause.
• 22:33
  We all need to know, you know, when we go to work that we're safe You know, I just not just
• 22:40
  physically, and psychologically, emotionally, I would say also spiritually that we can bring
• 22:46
  ourselves.
• 22:47
  We are bringing our fullest selves or to work and we're giving.
• 22:51
  And most of us, I I would say 99.9% of us wanna do amazing, with the craft that we've picked.
• 22:59
  So come out and do this.
• 23:00
  I would love, so let it talk a little bit about it.
• 23:03
  We'll drop the link again, when the podcast goes out, but tell me a little bit more about
• 23:07
  it.
• 23:08
  And, you know, we'll get as many people there as we can.
• 23:13
  Well, Barbara Bieder and I wanted to make this, a very celebration We wanted to make this a
• 23:19
  very positive experience.
• 23:20
  So just think about it.
• 23:22
  If you show up, you're gonna be in a room full of like minded people.
• 23:26
  You're gonna be full in a room, full of people who want to support psychological safety.
• 23:31
  So whether you're a leader, if you show up, we know what you represent.
• 23:34
  If you're, a target who's you've been there, we know this matters to you.
• 23:40
  So everyone in that room, just think of that energy right there.
• 23:43
  We're gonna have we're gonna be dancing because it's been a while since we've had some fun.
• 23:48
  We're going to be playing pingpong for those of us who like to play pingpong and have a good
• 23:52
  laugh and be a little bit competitive.
• 23:54
  And but you're gonna be networking.
• 23:56
  You're gonna meet people from all over Canada because it's not just Ontario or Toronto.
• 24:01
  It's we're all coming from promises, you're gonna network.
• 24:05
  You're going to be with very positive people.
• 24:08
  Maybe we'll have some tears.
• 24:09
  Who knows?
• 24:10
  But we're gonna celebrate So your ticket is going to be partly a donation.
• 24:16
  It's going to include a drink.
• 24:17
  It's gonna include really good nibbles all night long, We have musicians.
• 24:21
  We have a band.
• 24:22
  We have a DJ.
• 24:23
  How can you do better?
• 24:24
  You know, so we are hoping people will will We're doing a silent auction as well.
• 24:29
  Everything's being donated to this fund.
• 24:32
  We do hope people, organizations will consider donating.
• 24:36
  A good fee for us, help us out, get us, get us so we can get that app, done, and we can help
• 24:42
  other employees.
• 24:44
  Amazing.
• 24:44
  Hey, buddy.
• 24:45
  It's been out there.
• 24:45
  It's been through it.
• 24:46
  Please pay it forward.
• 24:48
  Of course.
• 24:48
  And like you said, it's almost a 100% of people in your training see that they've been through
• 24:53
  some form or know someone.
• 24:56
  So amazing talk today, Linda.
• 24:58
  So for everyone, what am I taking away?
• 25:01
  I think that we as employers or, peers, we have duty to make sure that everyone is well at
• 25:10
  work.
• 25:11
  Whatever that format is, whether you have virtual employees, or consultants like I do
• 25:18
  and, that work for me, I also have duty as the leader to ensure that I am, using my awareness,
• 25:26
  to set the stage for what I'm expecting from others.
• 25:31
  And also when they're having tough times to, also create the safety of cocoon so that they
• 25:37
  can also come to you as the leader.
• 25:39
  So that that takes gentleness and kindness, but it's it starts with us as the leader.
• 25:44
  And I like I talk about in my book, return our relationships.
• 25:47
  It starts, from the top and and you made a comment, that on linkedin, that it said you
• 25:55
  said the fish rods from the head.
• 25:57
  And I I, you know, it's so true.
• 26:01
  We are the leaders.
• 26:02
  We are the leadership.
• 26:03
  We we set the tone and the tempo, and it's our duty to be able to make sure that people can
• 26:08
  feel, that they can bring themselves to work and and be able to do their craft.
• 26:14
  So thank you again for coming, Linda.
• 26:16
  I look forward to meeting you in October and for everyone.
• 26:20
  Come and hang out with us if you can over to October and with my new book, return on
• 26:25
  relationships, you can get it on Amazon or go to my website at roxannedoorhodge.com for SaaS
• 26:31
  book.
• 26:31
  And all the information is there.
• 26:33
  Take care, everyone, and we'll chat with you next week.
• 26:36
  Thanks for tuning into authentic living with Roxanne.
• 26:40
  Create Roxanne work with Roxanne, visit roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 26:53
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.