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Innovation in Sports - A Conversation With John Owens & Jacob Rice · Coaches At Crown Brew Getting Coffee

• 0:13
  Welcome back to Coaches at Crown Brew Getting Coffee. We're glad you joined us today. We've got a special episode today, a different twist today than we've had, and I'm excited about it. I want to thank Crown Brew for opening the doors for us today. I want to thank Ross and Abby for all they do to put this together. Don't forget about Swinford Wedding Videography and Photography. Ross and Abby will take care of those great and exciting moments for you. I know there's a lot of weddings coming up.
• 0:37
  If you're in need of someone to capture those moments, they're the ones to call. I want to thank my buddies at Adrenaline Fundraising. Jeff and Matt help you raise money for your program, for your organization, for your club. They're the best. I used them for years, and if I was still coaching, it would be the first phone call I would make as to Adrenaline Fundraising. Marion Plumbing with Tony Gooch, great guy, great organization, commercial and residential plumbing needs.
• 1:01
  call tony if you've got those needs and here we're going to roll today i've got a special co-host today stan stout going to help me navigate the waters no pun intended of two sports that are brand new and i say brand new in relative comparison to baseball basketball football whatever but two sports that are kind of new to high schools new to mhs in some ways and certainly
• 1:26
  I assume, guys, it's growing rapidly, right? These two sports, like girls wrestling, are growing. And that is John Owens, the head bass fishing coach at Marion High School.
• 1:37
  and Jacob Rice. Welcome to both of you. It's going to be a great time. The newest sport, esports with Jacob Rice. And this is great. John's been a good friend for a long time. Jacob was my student at one time and Stan and I taught together for a long time. Stan's making his third visit on the podcast. So he's going to have to wear a special jacket or something when he comes on, right? But welcome to both of you guys today. And let's just dive in. First of all, John, a little bit of background about you.
• 2:05
  and and where you're from and and a little bit of your fishing background uh born and raised here in marion uh went to college local john a and siu okay started a career with the department of corrections in 94 got married in 94 had two grown kids been retired since 22.
• 2:27
  Loving every minute of it. And fished your whole life? Yes. Is that your dad's influence? Actually, it was, but Mom used to take us. Oh, interesting. It started at a very young age. I've got two older brothers, and she worked as a cook for the school district. So she was off in the summers, and Dad used to, when we first moved, or they first moved to town, Dad moved to town to work for Pepsi. And we lived across the street from Pepsi where Cracker Barrel is. Oh, wow. And Mom...
• 2:56
  at a young age, would drive us across the street when dad was working to fish the ponds behind Pepsi. Gotcha. And having two older brothers, it's always been a competition. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. That's really cool. Yeah, thanks to mom. Did she fish at all? No, she just sat in the lawn chair and watched us. Yeah, I mean, with three boys in the house, she had to have something to do for us. Keep you guys busy, right? Yes. Jacob?
• 3:23
  So kind of the same thing. I grew up in Marion. I went to Marion High School. I went to SIC after high school and then got my master's in teaching at SIU. So it kind of came full circle now that I'm back at the high school. I started teaching there two years ago, which is the same time I started coaching esports. They kind of became a package deal. I got hired as the teacher and then Mr. Gudiski called me up and was like, hey, we have this...
• 3:49
  new sport we're starting up. You're young, are you interested in doing this? You know, new teacher, I was like, oh sure, I'll do whatever I can, get that job security. Absolutely. But I've been doing that for a couple years now, and I've been really enjoying it. I mean, who doesn't love playing video games? It's kind of something my generation especially has grown up doing. Yeah. Played NBA 2K, I think, 2K.
• 4:16
  2009 was the one that me and my friends first started playing on and played all through high school. I've had to branch out a little bit on the games because I didn't always know all of the games that we have. So it's been a learning experience for me too. We're going to get into that about how the games are chosen and so forth and how much time you have to prepare for a game. So you grew up a gamer. Sort of. I didn't start gaming until about high school. Okay.
• 4:44
  Growing up, we had like a Wii, but I don't know that you'd call a Wii a competitive game. Playing Wii Bowling is the same as what they do now. But in high school, I got my first Xbox, I think junior year. And so we started playing junior year. Before that, whenever I'd go over to a friend's house, we'd play video games because I didn't have any major video games at home until junior year high school. I remember vividly.
• 5:13
  Christmas time, going down to our basement. We had a TV downstairs. Dad said, you're not playing that up here. And I went downstairs and I put Pong. And we could play with someone or play by yourself. And I'm telling you what, it sounds cliche, but I played Pong. I was an early gamer. The earliest. And listen, I thought that was the greatest thing. You know the one I remember about Pong? Do you remember the one where you could
• 5:41
  they would have two paddles. And you would get going, you know, but then in the middle you start going really, really fast. And then, man, when you could just flip that thing and that ball would go up into the upper corner, you're like, I am the champion. It was uncatchable. When it got complicated, I checked out. It got too hard for me. But I was never very good at it, but I really respect those. Watching someone who's good at it is amazing. So we'll talk about how kids get into that, good at it, and so forth.
• 6:09
  So let's talk about how the job came about for you, John. So it was a package deal for him. Did you have any idea you were going to do this at some point? When my oldest son went through it, he went through it for four years. John Robinson was the coach at the time, and I used to joke with John, wait till I retire, because he had a young family, and he said that he wasn't going to do it forever. And I said, wait till I retire, and I'll take it. But it didn't work out that way.
• 6:39
  Connor Brave had it for a couple of years. And of course he's got a young family. Yeah. And he said last year he made the announcement that he's going to step away from it. And he's come over and shook my hand. He said, you'd be perfect coach. And I was like, I don't know if I want it or not, but I've always wanted it. But then I wasn't sure. Yeah. And then I just.
• 7:03
  I'm excited, yeah. Are you glad you did it? Yes. Super stoked I did it. I was nervous. The next thing I want to get into is I want to talk to you guys. Stan, you can jump in any time. Explain the competition. You're a bass fishing team. How does the competition work for those watching who may not know? I'm trying now to mimic just like professional fishing, which is two guys in a boat fishing together.
• 7:32
  with a boat captain that does not fish. And the five heaviest fish, 12 inches and over, is the goal. And the goal is to come in with the five heaviest fish for the night. And they weigh all the fish collectively. And also there's a biggest fish. Yes. So each time we can weigh a biggest fish, but early in the season, if we already know that whoever's got a five or six, seven pounder, and somebody comes in with a three pounder.
• 8:01
  Wants to weigh their big fish and say, well, we've already got that for the season. I got you. Okay. Okay. And different teams gather at a lake. Yes. Area lakes like Lake of Egypt. Lake of Egypt. And these teams compete. So how many boats are there normally per team or does it vary? With our school, we've had eight boats currently. Is that a max? No.
• 8:24
  That is a boat captain issue. That's a separate issue. But our team right now, we've got 16 kids, 8 boats, and each week we have a qualifier one night a week. And they can practice any time throughout the week if they want to, but our qualifier is one night a week on Thursday nights when season starts until season ends. And that is when we tally each week's weight.
• 8:51
  We go from start to finish, and we total the weight across the whole season. So you could be on the team, but you don't qualify to fish in the next tournament. No, you qualify throughout the whole season to get to regionals. I got you. Okay, I got you. Everybody fishes every week unless they have something that they cannot be a part of the qualification. But everybody fishes. And these boat captains are?
• 9:19
  Parents, community people that volunteer to serve as the captain of a boat. Yes. Most of the time it's a dad, it's an uncle, or like you said, a mom. But this year I was blessed. I had a bunch of boys that were my oldest sons.
• 9:36
  age, step up, and say, we want to be boat captains. That's really cool. Yeah, a little bit of a legacy. They did it, and now they want to come back and give back. It was really cool. And they were some phenomenal fishermen for the high school. And they still are. Excellent, excellent boys. I had a lot of those boys in my geometry class, and we would talk fishing nonstop, and it was so fun. And I joke that the boat captains and coaches and everybody else are teaching kids to beat them.
• 10:05
  later on really all right so yeah yeah um is is this like something where most of your kids come in and they have been fishing most of their life about 50 50. wow that's interesting okay some of them have never picked up a rod before in their life can you tell the difference yes yeah you can tell yeah yeah but but this year like i've had a couple of them that barely picked up a rod and had
• 10:33
  Greatly improved. Oh, wow, that's cool. Greatly improved. Especially if they're young and you've got them for a few more years. So where are you at in your season right now? What do you have left? We have regionals Thursday. We have regionals Thursday. So we're into the postseason. I've got two teams going to regionals. Which lake is it going to be on? Crab Orchard. Crab Orchard Lake. All right. Do you have a lake that's a particular favorite? Lake of Egypt is probably my favorite. Crab, when I grew up, used to be my favorite.
• 11:03
  And then it kind of went through a cycle where a lot of the bigger fish died for some reason. I don't know what they had going on. So everybody kind of migrated to Egypt, and Egypt just keeps skyrocketing. Is the state the one that chooses the site? Yes. Okay. Yeah. All right. IHSA. Let's talk about yours. Let's talk about the competition and how we do this. So ours is kind of like, I think, bass fishing as well, where we...
• 11:31
  the only like official ihsa thing is at the end of the season with like regional sectionals state series yes the state series and um so like our weekly we do it it's a year-round competition through um it's a third party that kind of partners with um high school esports and there's actually two that do it there's ihsea which is the illinois high school association of esports
• 11:57
  And they're the ones that kind of do it for Illinois. But then our biggest competition is through an organization called Play Versus, where it's kind of backwards because our conference is actually 12 states big. So for most teams, conference is like a small competition. For us, our conference consisted this year of between all of our
• 12:21
  games we had about 700 teams in the conference across 12 states and so they were competing in each game we had about 300 teams or so some games are a little smaller like unfortunately eafc the fifa is one of the smallest ones that didn't have too many uh members in the league but uh we play that and everything's done virtually which is the kind of isn't that crazy they do it all virtually so you don't travel
• 12:50
  no like i always i just assumed you were going no yeah the only time we travel is in postseason okay um so this next year they're going to introduce regionals it's been you just had to qualify for sectionals from a third party but now they're going to have regionals next year sectional states and that's the only time we'll travel so state's held in evergreen park up in chicago and then
• 13:16
  Sectionals is in Belleville. Regionals is probably going to be us hosting next year. So is it because when you host, you would have to have a number of places to play? What would you call those? So it depends on the game. So the biggest hindrance is for Rocket League, which is essentially soccer with flying cars. Kind of crazy. But it requires a gaming computer. And most schools can't afford many gaming computers.
• 13:46
  To host a competition like that, you need about 15 to 20 gaming computers. Each gaming computer is $1,500, $2,000. So you get a bunch of the small schools around here, it's hard. But then you have big schools, especially up in Chicago, they've got 60, 70 computers, which is why they have a lot more in-person stuff, but we're trying to get that down here as well.
• 14:15
  We're working with Carbondale, Carterville, some of the coaches around here, Salem. We're trying to get some of the in-person competitions because we also use switches. So the switch ones are pretty accessible. You can buy them used for $150 now. That's what two of our games are played on. Sitting here listening to you. It's amazing. The contrast between bass fishing and in-person. At the same time, they are so unique. I'm sitting here thinking.
• 14:41
  Tell me if Ryan gets you those computers because I've been asking him for bass boats since I started. How many people are on your team? This year we had 33 active members. Do they all get to participate? They do. We still have Varsity, JV. Our biggest game is Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
• 15:06
  Switch game. It's Mario based. It's like a kind of like a fighting game where they fight 1v1 and I can only have six people in varsity on that. I had 19 come to tryouts this fall. Got a little intense on that, didn't it? Yeah. So it's pretty big, honestly. Between the two years, I've had 46 different students.
• 15:31
  playing at least one season of competition. And I'm sorry, how long have you been doing this? This is the second year. We just finished our second year. Okay, and let's talk a brief, because we know he's headed for regionals in basketball. Where are you guys at? Your season is complete, correct? Yes, we actually just finished last week. I had three of our teams qualify to go to state, and so we just got back from Chicago last Saturday.
• 15:55
  With a third place finish in Mario Kart, right. That's right. Podium. So they were really excited. They got third place at state. I was super happy. That's awesome. That's great. The coolest thing, since it was kind of our second year, most of the Chicago schools had never heard of Marion. And so they kept seeing the bracket updating on the live bracket feed. And they're like, who's this Marion team? Because they all compete with each other. They're like, we've never heard of these guys before. And we kept beating them.
• 16:23
  I'm like, oh, these guys are good. And they were like, they thought we were, there's a Marian Catholic school up there. And they thought we were the Marian Catholic private school. And I'm like, no, we drove over five hours to get up here. Deep South. Deep South. Jacob, I had the exact same experience back in 2011. One of my golfers, Jarrett Brewer, won the state golf match. And he was going head-to-head with a boy from Marian Catholic.
• 16:52
  And as I was walking around the last few holes, I had three or four parents kind of talking amongst each other, looks like that Marian Catholic boy is going to win. And I said, uh...
• 17:02
  We're Marion, Illinois. Thank you very much. Very different school. That's right. Same thing. They think up north that we don't exist down here. Exactly. So it was nice to show up. That's great. Congratulations. Thank you. How are the games chosen? Who chooses the games? So partially me, actually. I'm on the IHSA Esports Advisory. And so we're a committee of eight people. So we have...
• 17:30
  seven or eight divisions of people in Illinois and so we have a representative from each division and I'm on the southern Illinois rep and we vote on the games that we play that year. We try to base it based on like national games played. We also have to make sure that they're age-appropriate games because we're dealing with, I mean some of our freshmen are 13 coming into high school. We don't want them playing games through.
• 17:56
  18-year-old. Yeah, exactly. We've got to make sure they're appropriate. So we try to stick to the Switch is typically a pretty safe console and pretty accessible. So we just kind of look at the national competitions and what's offered and pick. We don't want to do more than about six or so because at that point we know there's thousands of games to choose from. But you start spreading schools too thin if you get more than about six games. Okay.
• 18:24
  try to rotate every once in a while so we might switch out like a sport game for another game so like if we played madden one year we might switch it out for nba 2k the next year or something like that i uh i'm glad to hear mario kart mario kart you know that that is that is that is my that's what i played yes that is one that i can do i mean i could i could go to that mushroom level and take that shortcut and bounce through there with a little rocket power and i said man i could pop i could possibly podium in this one
• 18:53
  Would you have been on this team when you were a kid? Only Mario Kart. You'd have probably been on both of these teams. Yeah, I could have been on both of them. You'd have been a three-sport athlete, golf, bass, fishing, and e-sports. Oh, my word. Kerry, I used to joke that I played football at SIU because I played Madden over there in the student center. I would tell people, I played football in SIU. I was pretty good, too. Madden Sports. I'll tell you what is so cool about the gaming. I've seen it in my house. Obviously, I have a 20-year-old son who has grown up since he was eight.
• 19:23
  He will get online with his friends. You talk about frantic and tense and in your face. I mean, Kerry, it's like overtime in football, man. I mean, he is just living every second of it. So, I mean, they flat get down on their esports. They have a reputation for not sleeping, energy drinks. Is this all true? Well, luckily, since we play on-site.
• 19:51
  Banned the energy drink. Hearing them talk, I can say yes. Okay. Where there's a stereotype, there's always some truth, right? John, let's talk about the do's and don'ts. This is new to me. I don't fish much. Stan and I actually went fishing last week. We did. We took my grandson. Got some great pictures in the backyard. That's what it's all about. What's the do's and don'ts? When you have a kid go out on a boat, what makes someone good at this and what are some things that they should avoid as a fisherman?
• 20:20
  What tips would you give? What makes them good is practice. The kids that fish daily, or not daily, but a lot, you can tell because they are just like any other sport. They pick that rod up and they figure out exactly how to catch that bass. And it's practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. What's the key?
• 20:49
  the casting the learning learning what your niche is like like there's like stan jokes about the beetle spin there's a billion different baits i love the beetle spin and everybody has their own little niche that they find like stands with a beetle spin or somebody with like a shaky head or or somebody with a chatter bait so that is what they want to use yes okay yes and that will that becomes that person's strength
• 21:16
  And that's their go-to confidence builder, blah, blah, blah. That's how they catch most of their fish. Well, a kid that practices and gets versed in a lot of different deals will resort back to that most of the time, but is able to pick up on other baits also. So he's more...
• 21:37
  versatile on days that it's tough okay so are certain baits you call them baits right yes are certain baits better on certain days like it's cloudy so i'll use this it's windy i'll use this right cloudy windy day you can move something or you can fish something that's moving quick sunny slow slick day you slow down that's that's the stereotypical of it uh and yes the the cloudy windy day
• 22:06
  it's easier to catch fish because you're moving faster. So you're catching more. Whereas if you slow down and throw a jig or a worm or something, you're shooting for five bites throughout that whole day. Oh, wow. But hopefully they're bigger. Yes, hopefully they're bigger. Okay, so there's a strategy there about catching fish but also catching bigger fish. Yes. Because you guys want big fish. Yes, yes, that's the goal. Back when I fished a lot in...
• 22:34
  a couple of the local tournaments i always joke but i would start off with my beetle spin or my little two inch charlie brewer slider grub and i'd try to get my little limit and then you turn on to the
• 22:47
  Brown jig with a pork rind. I don't know if they have pork rind anymore. I loved my Uncle Josh pork rind back when I was a kid. Or like a six-inch sluggo soft stick bait or something that I may not get as many bites, but if they did choose to pick that rascal up, it was going to be a substantial fish. Yeah, the ultimate goal is to get the five fish in the boat first. Yeah, you want to get your five fish as quickly as you can. Yes, because if you don't, you will get beat.
• 23:12
  every time by somebody that's consistently putting five fish in the boat throughout the whole season. Yeah, because when we were doing the weigh-in, teams that came in with less than five, they had that look on their face like, we have no chance. That's the goal. Also, I'm thinking now, I could be wrong, when you've got your five fish, now it's all gravy. Now you get to cull the small ones out. Now you're upgrading. So they catch a bigger fish, they get rid of the smaller fish. Wow, that's fascinating.
• 23:41
  That's cool. How has fishing changed over time? You were fishing in high school, and now you're the coach of the bass fishing team. Tell me the biggest change or changes that have taken place. Well, the biggest change has been in the last five years plus a little bit with forward-facing sonar, and it's completely changed the sport. Every boat has this? No.
• 24:03
  No, they can. They can. But I'm going to steal his thunder. This is where fishing and e-sports combine. Yes, it is a lot. It is a lot like e-sports. This forward-facing sonar makes it a video game. It is phenomenal. And some people will not watch fishing on TV. I do. I enjoy it. But you've got a lot of the younger generation staring at their 12- or 16-inch screen and not looking up because they're watching the fish on the screen.
• 24:33
  And that's, they're figured out how to catch them live. Right. By watching them live. Wow. And electronics has changed the game. And tell Coach about when they flip their bait out, what they're watching on the screen. Yeah, they're watching their bait fall in front of their face. You can watch the bait fall right in front of the fish. You can watch the fish start coming up. And guys are getting really good at it. It's like a video game. It is absolutely unreal to watch. That's fascinating. And it is really, in the past few years,
• 25:04
  torn older guys versus younger guys because the older crowd is having a hard time catching up with the eSports as opposed, because they're not used to it. I mean, we've always had graphs. We've always had down imaging, side scan, all that stuff, but it's not, it wasn't like this. Oh, this is real time school, baby. You would love it. Are there people that say we shouldn't be doing that? A lot.
• 25:33
  a lot there's tournament there's tournament trails now that are banning it and not using it to appeal to the guys that don't like it this is like the wooden bat leagues yes it's right it's exactly yeah or the some i heard someone recently say the tennis rackets have ruined tennis because they hit the ball they want to go back to the old wooden racket where you had to play the game and not just hit a hundred and they were and you know they were this big around any time any sport
• 26:03
  evolves you're going to have people that well yeah i mean so i had i've talked to some officials on my show and one of the things that fascinates us now is that used to be uh you know you saw film when the game is over and now we have sideline ipads you watch plays you can tell an official you missed a call and now you you thought he did now you know they hate that because obviously in real time you're looking at the game the play that just was played right there watching it i know there's
• 26:32
  older coaches just think it's gone too far yeah you know there's a lot of people that feel that way with fishing yeah that this has gone too far but if you it's with anything if you look over time every little thing advancement in any sport
• 26:49
  has improved it that much greater. Like in golf, you know, the drivers are now this big. I mean, it's every sport. Every single sport has done it. We've got a trolling motor, a spotlight trolling motor that no one griped about because I can press the button on it and it's like I'm fishing off a dock out in the middle of the lake. I can walk around the boat for hours and it not move. And just little things like that that have helped.
• 27:17
  John and I at home team, we always banter back and forth about the technology. And he said, what do you think? I said, all I can tell you is when I was a kid, I loved watching Bassmaster fishing tournaments on television. Now I can't stand it because they don't talk to anyone. The guys, they just stare down and they reel and then they do that and they reel their fish in. But at the same time, if I were fishing,
• 27:43
  Give me one of those. See, I would want one of those on my boat. The top tier Bassmaster Elite has made it 50-50. They're having 50% of their tournaments without it and 50% with it. And it does show the true fisherman. And these young kids are still competing like one of the local boys, Trey McKinney. I mean, he's Angler of the Year right now in points.
• 28:11
  I don't want to jinx him, but it was a pretty good. And they said when he first come on, that was the older guy's gripe. Well, that's all he's good at. Well, he's not. He's well-versed in all of it. So I'll make an assumption that I feel like I've only been to one tournament.
• 28:30
  We helped the boy weigh in. You guys were the A team. That's right. If you ever need them for eSports, they are the A team. But I feel like this has really opened the door for some smaller schools. Oh, yes. I saw lots of little schools had kids competing. I think that was pretty cool because a lot of them can't afford a football team or a wrestling team, or they can't have bowling.
• 28:57
  But they have bass fishing. Yes. And you get the Gorebills and the Viennas and teams like that. Some of them show up in just a little john boat with a little motor. And, dude, they're weighing in giant streams of fish. I've always told the boys, fear the john boat. Yes, you have to fear the john boat. Fear the john boat. That'd be a great shirt. Exactly right. Fear the john boat. Amen. A prime example of that, we were at Clinton with my oldest boy one year.
• 29:23
  and i had hit something with my lower unit the week before out of crab orchard and it didn't it didn't ruin my right off the bat but i guess it cracked a gear and on practice day up there it just blew my lower unit so it shot we didn't have a boat so i called my dad and i said
• 29:41
  Bring us the John Boat. Bring the John Boat. The boys won in the John Boat. And I said, prime example, fear the John Boat. Wow, that's cool. As everybody else blasts down the river, the John Boat goes right around the corner from where they take off, and they're going to get their limit. So, Jacob, what's the biggest misconception about esports competitors? Because people, I know their stereotype of gamers. What's the biggest misconception?
• 30:09
  And I think that it probably is that stereotype people think, you know, they're kids that just don't do anything. They just go play video games, sit in the room, drinking energy drinks till 4 a.m. You know, but, I mean, that's not them. Like, this year, like, of the 31 I have, 18 of them are also in another sport. Oh, that's great. That's interesting. So it's not just, like...
• 30:36
  In a lot of schools, esports is just like that is all those students do, but we have tons of people that are branched out. We have some of the football players on our team that play Madden. They play Super Smash. We have a bunch of tennis teams. Tennis is actually our biggest crossover. Are you serious? Unexpectedly. Wow, that's interesting. We have seven shared members on the tennis and esports teams. So me and Coach Pierce have to work together with scheduling sometimes. You mentioned your season. So it's all year?
• 31:06
  It is. So other sports are going on? Yes. Okay. So you are throughout the entire school year, more or less? I did not know that. We start in September, and then we just finished last weekend, or two weekends ago, I guess. That's up there with the dance team. I always thought that the palm dance team, they start in September, and they just keep going. So what's this question? So you're getting a fall, winter, and spring stipend, right?
• 31:31
  Because you coached three. No. Hey, Mr. Gadisky. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. Starting up a winter bass league. No. I did not know that. I didn't either. So how does that work? Like, are you competing all year? Like, how often are you competing? So it kind of depends on the season of the league. So we have a fall and a spring season.
• 31:57
  So the fall season goes from like September through the beginning of December. And then the spring season is the end of January through like the first weekend of May. And we compete. For the students, their teams only compete once a week. Okay. But I have 16. Like in the evening after school? So all of our competitions are at 4 p.m. Okay. Our time. So they go to the eSports room.
• 32:27
  I have them do a couple warm-ups, get ready. When you say warm-ups, what does that mean? It kind of depends on which esport is playing that day. For Rocket League, it's more like a traditional sport. I have them running passing plays, passing drills. They have to learn how to communicate because it's essentially 3v3 soccer. They have to learn formations. They have to learn who to pass to when.
• 32:58
  But then like with Madden, it's a solo player sport. And so I have them, most of the time I only have one or two of them. So if I have two of them, then I have them play against each other, trying to run different plays. Because we know the rosters that the other team's gonna pick beforehand, because we have to submit that.
• 33:16
  My Madden player this year was a big Chargers fan, so he played the Chargers roster, the Ravens offense, and then the Chargers defense. Oh, so you don't get to pick an all-star team. You pick a roster of an offense or a defense. Oh, that's cool. You pick the roster of the players, and then you pick an offensive and defensive. I got you. Would you trust your Dolphins? No. No. I love my Dolphins, but I'm not picking them on that. I want to win. Yeah. It's like.
• 33:44
  Tua fades back and he breaks in half right on the eSports screen. Well, here we go. So, yeah, it kind of put me out of my comfort zone a little bit. Oh, that's awesome. I have to know all about all of the current NFL players as well. I follow and watch it generally, but it updates the roster throughout the season. That's fascinating. So you have to know. Oh, it's based on their statistics. Yeah, so, like, different teams that you select are better than others.
• 34:11
  We saw lots of Ravens. I know it's wild. Tons of other teams were playing the Ravens roster. I'll be darned. And so it was, for them, it was kind of more analysis. Like, hey, they're going to be playing this playbook, so maybe we put in for a switch in our playbook. It's like way back in the day on Tecmo Bowl. I don't know if I'm dating. I'm probably dating all of them. Well, I already dated them some pong, so. Okay, it was back there and then. Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl.
• 34:41
  You couldn't touch him. They had put in some type of programming. If you had Bo Jackson, he ran through every defense and you scored every single time. That's awesome. Last year at State, that actually happened. The State winner found there was a, if you did a certain play on the, I believe it was the Chiefs defense, you could make the offense take a knee.
• 35:06
  They found this? And he probably didn't tell anyone until the state finals, did he? He didn't tell anyone until the state tournament, and there was nothing in the rules against him. So he won the state championship last year by making the other team win. That is awesome. Stuff like that does happen. You think that fishing camera should be out? Yeah, look at that.
• 35:25
  so uh his championships they let him keep it but we made sure this year the rules it says yeah i mean do you think he found that could he have found that on his own or do you think he we think he had to we are we met with the ihsa committee like an emergency thing it's like what we do and we scoured the internet and we couldn't find anything about it so he
• 35:47
  Found it on his own somehow. That's hilarious. On his fourth energy drink, he figured it out. So is it now going to be in the bylaws somewhere? Yes. Yeah. We met last week with the committee, and we were like, hey, we've got to make sure this is not allowed. And then since we're technically an advisory committee, it has to go to the official IHSA board for approval. But, of course, they're going to approve.
• 36:14
  something like that yeah it's funny when a sport is new or someone's always trying to find an edge there was a coach in southern illinois i won't say who it is but years ago a coach in southern illinois his team of certain colors and he bought jerseys that were football colored
• 36:32
  So when they, they were a running team and they did a lot of faking. So they were like brown? Yes. Couldn't see the ball. Also, it was a kind of a color of, they were a little bit like that color.
• 36:44
  And so when the ball was in the belly and the other backs would act, I mean, they said you couldn't find the football. You couldn't tell them. And almost something like a little lace across here. But, yeah, so, but again, the IHSA had to come in and say, this is what I heard. I wasn't coaching then, but we can't have ball color jerseys. But at the time, there was nothing in the rules that said you couldn't do that. But well played that year. Good job. Yeah.
• 37:13
  So, John, what's the best part? What's the best part of what you do? Seeing the kids fall in love with fishing. That's awesome. It's a lifetime thing, right? Yeah. They can take it and teach their kid and so on and so on. That's really cool. That's some of my best memories way back when I was a kid. I probably started out fishing in the little Saline River down at New Burnside. You know, I would go down there and...
• 37:39
  flip rocks and find a worm and put it on a hook and you know just catch goggle eye and little darters and and pumpkin seeds my my family had some dear friends who owned 20 acres down there and so we would go down there every single weekend and they would just turn me loose and i would take off through the woods down to the little creek and and oh when i was 15 phenomenal dad had taken me to the city lake
• 38:07
  Marion City. And I caught one eight and a half pounds. And I was yelling so loud that Dad kept telling me, be quiet, you're going to have everybody over here. Everybody on the lake. Because it was busy. It was like a Saturday or something and there were several boats. And he was like, be quiet, everybody's going to be over here. But, yeah, I can remember that like it was yesterday. And we took it to, because we didn't have scales back then. We took it to Food Town and put it on the meat scale to see how much it weighed. That's cool, yeah. When I was a little kid, my uncle,
• 38:36
  was in town he had a friend he said he's got a pond and he says it's guaranteed fishing so I had never fished very much just a little bit my dad this man was crazy he blindfolded us and put us in the car I'm thinking what is going he didn't want us to know where the pond was like an eight-year-old kid's gonna tell somebody he drove us out there and this is when I really started to love fishing I was fishing this guy was a talker
• 39:01
  I said, I think I've got one. And he said, son, you're hooked up in that fence. I said, no, I think I got a fish. He dogged me and said, you don't have a fish, son. I fish, you don't.
• 39:10
  I pulled in about a five or six pound catfish. And I was like so proud of myself, man. I was like, I told you I had a fish. Like you said, I still remember that silly story. It meant so much to me. Tell John, he'll appreciate this story. Tell him about the other day when you took Wyatt and his first cast. When we were trying to teach him how to throw. So Wyatt's seven years old. He really never fished. Maybe just a little bit with his dad. He took his little.
• 39:35
  little kid fishing pole and his first cast went halfway across the pond yeah we tried we were trying to tell him how to hold the button down and then let go and it was and he he took off and let go of that thing and carrie and i looked at each other that thing just arced so way across the future i said i was like that is unbelievable yeah so what what's the what's the most difficult part so captains boat captains yeah finding finding yeah for the amount of kids that want to
• 40:04
  fish and it is it's it's difficult i was blessed this year but a lot of years the team depends and relies on who shows up to be a boat captain yeah and this year you had how many you had eight i got about i've actually got two extras so i've got 10 boat captains i believe and eight teams i got you but in the years past it's always i mean the team fluctuates up and down with because i'm losing
• 40:34
  four this year, I believe, to seniors. And you don't know that they'll come back? No, they probably won't. So how many anglers are on your team total? 16. And how many are you on your esports? We have 31 this year. You don't have a limit? No. 47 athletes between these two. That's what I'm saying. My golf team at the peak, 10 or 11. And this is amazing. I joked with...
• 41:01
  principal williams and ryan the first time we ever met that he said what can we do to help you and the boat captain deal i said get me 10 brand new ranger boats so these boat captains will come banging on my door that's right that's right because they say but what else yeah they just laughed is it a rule only one captain in the boat yeah yeah you can't have two people that you could i guess but and i did see it some of the
• 41:30
  Like we have one big tourney at Marion Invitational. I did see there was two captains, and we're not going to say no. They just can't fish. They're there to run the boat and give advice, blah, blah, blah. So I'll reverse that order for you. What's the toughest part? For me, it's the division. Because between all of my teams this year, I had 160 matches this year. Are you serious? And so trying to like...
• 41:58
  A lot of times I'll have two or three matches going on at the exact same time. And so trying to divide attention, give advice to different teams at different times. I do have a volunteer assistant that helps me out, and he's really great. But even with two of us, if we have three matches going on, there's always one match that's not being watched. It's hard to give advice on that. Can people come and watch? They can. Do parents come in?
• 42:22
  They can. We also have a Twitch channel. That way people can watch from home if they want. Are you serious? I didn't know that either. We switch up which game we stream every week. Since we do have two or three games going on at once, we can't stream them all.
• 42:39
  Pick one and then we do like a rotation every week So that way the parents if they can't make it in physically you can watch that is so cool. I want that in the boats What's the best part for you for me it's in like the outreach because Well over half my team does do other sports and activities
• 43:10
  That third of my team that doesn't, this is about all they do or can do. A lot of them, that's how the program got started, was an equity grant to try and outreach. And I think we've successfully done that. So seeing those students that this is all the only activity they do, the only activity they can do. They get super excited. They constantly are banging on my classroom door saying, hey, can I go in the eSports room? I want to play.
• 43:39
  Like, since this week, our season's over, and we've got finals next week. I had it closed down, so they're studying. And they probably want to decompress, don't they? They want to go in there and just... They want to go sit there at 5, 30, 6 o'clock at night, just playing. And because of that, because of the eSports and bass fishing stuff, these kids are finding friends. Yes. That they have this in common. That they probably never would have talked to them before. That's so true, John. That's a great point. One of the things I celebrated about...
• 44:09
  the game of football for me was there was no way a couple of these kids would ever do anything together, you know, if it weren't for the game of football that brought a kid that maybe was from, you know, had this going on in his life and this kid, very, very different situation, socioeconomically, whatever, and they found each other on a football team and it brought those, I love, that's a great point. I think that's the beauty of having these additional sports.
• 44:37
  finding things we're missing like esports or bass fishing that there are some kids bowling did that there are kids that just bowl that's their thing and there's it's never been an opportunity for them at school yeah and now they found other people that share a love for that so that's that's really cool um did i ask you what the best part is
• 44:56
  Yes. Okay, we'll make sure. Okay, we got off on a tangent there. I mean, think about it. Did you guys ever envision you'd be on a podcast talking about esports and bass fishing? Oh, it's phenomenal. This is one of the best little advertisements that we can have, and he does such a phenomenal job all over Southern Illinois. What do you think you've learned about kids by being a bass fishing coach? I would say probably that...
• 45:28
  Like Jacob said earlier, they're not stereotypical this. When you think, well, a bass fisherman, like I've got a girl on the team. You think of some redneck little kid that's all country and stuff. These kids aren't. They're diverse. Yeah, so his stereotype is the energy-drinking kid. Yours is the redneck kid. Mine is the little redneck kid that drives a pickup truck. And it's not. I mean, they show up and it's...
• 45:56
  versed all the way across so i mean they yep and they teach me something every time every week you know because i go up and ask them before practice how their day was and stuff and they go off on this and i'm like okay jake what about you what have you what have you learned from from kids or about kids by being a coach the biggest thing i've learned is you never know what to expect sometimes good and bad yeah um mostly good though they
• 46:24
  surprise me all the time. They always tend to step up. You know, when I first started last year, I had no idea what I was doing, and I was like, okay, I've got to do this and this and this and this. But this year I've taken a little bit of a step back, and I'm like, hey, you're going to be in charge of this today. I made the captains of each team more in charge of their teams. That's excellent. I was wearing myself thin last year. That's a great idea, though. We do a Friday captains meeting.
• 46:51
  Like, hey, I want you to make sure your team does this this week. And they all do it. And it really showed me how these students can step up. They can bond with each other and really just kind of do the unexpected. Because I think a lot of times we hear this generation coming up. They're always like, oh, they don't talk to each other. They don't do this. And you'd think esports would make that even worse. Like, oh, you're just playing video games.
• 47:20
  the social aspect of it that's really cool yeah so this may be similar and if it is you can you can say so but inside everything i think we do activity game club whatever sport there's a life lesson what do you think the life lesson is by a kid who says i'm going to be on the bass fishing team he has that experience what's the is there a life lesson there that there may be many there are all kinds of life lessons with with fishing yeah and just like any other sport
• 47:51
  Patience. The first thing I was thinking is patience. When you're a fisherman, you're becoming a conservationist because you're outdoors. And if you want it to continue, you have to protect it. That's really good. There's a jillion of them. What stands out to you life lesson-wise? What do you want them to take from this and say, well, I'm good at playing a game, but what do they take from the experience that they can go on the rest of their life with?
• 48:19
  I think some of the, for most of them, it's the perseverance because a lot of times I have a lot of people come in and they're like, oh, I've been playing video games since I was four. I'm going to be the best at this. And then we get online and they get shut out. They don't score a single point on the other team. And it kind of humbles them. And some of them, I think, are, you know, ready to quit. But then they come back. They actually practice. They get better.
• 48:48
  And the cool thing about esports, they can go home and they, I found out recently they have a group chat and they practice on their own at home with each other because they can play virtually together. But your kids are out there fishing sometimes. My son was a skateboarder and he got into it at a young age and he started learning some tricks and he got better. He started learning some tricks and he got better. I remember we went to St. Augustine and they had a beautiful skate park unlike anything around here and he went.
• 49:18
  And he had all of his skateboard stuff on. And he skated. And there were kids there that were at another level. And I felt bad for him because I think it humbled him. Like he thought he was pretty good. And he found out. But it may have been the best thing for him. He went on to become phenomenal at skateboarding. But I think an experience like that, looking around and going, oh, I'm not as good as I thought. But he handled it so well. Like he came home a little disappointed in himself.
• 49:48
  But it motivated him to be better. So that's another advantage of being around good people in your sport. I'm going to springboard off of both of you really quickly if I can. With yours, my son, ever since he was a little tyke, he really loved his video games. And we were usually Wii, Mario Kart. And so that was the one that...
• 50:10
  Between him and me and my two daughters, when we would throw down, we would have the four-screen Mario Kart tournament going on. And I can't tell you how many times I would get out in the lead. I would get out in the lead, and I'm sitting there going, here comes Dad, here comes Dad, around the final curve. And then Ethan, with his little voice, would say, don't worry, I have the blue turtle with the spikes. And about that time, boom! And he'd go, and I can't tell you how many times. And I said,
• 50:40
  how did you figure this out he said i just kept watching and and you know figuring out what and and so there is so much little logic and and planning that goes on and then to yours what fishing did for me even when i was a little kid like i said i would go down there to that creek when i was seven years old and now i can go out in my backyard when i'm almost 60.
• 51:00
  I just love the solace. Sometimes I just want to be by myself. And sometimes, not often, but sometimes I almost pray the fish don't bother me. There are cartoons like that that say that. Don't bite. There's a guy sitting there in his boat drinking his coffee. Just take a breath and calm down. There's so much to be said for that. My family has had so many great times.
• 51:28
  on both of these, and that's what's so cool about this podcast. I appreciate you sharing that. These are two of the greatest things in my life. Last question. What's the future for bass fishing? What do you think? I think it's endless. The colleges have not accepted it yet as an NCAA sport. It's still a club level at all the colleges, but I think eventually they will. I agree with that.
• 51:56
  Because there's a ton of them that have adopted it at the club level. Yeah. And, like, some of them give, like, McKendree and I can't remember what the name of the school it did down there in Kentucky, but give big scholarships for it. But a lot of them give very minimal scholarships for it because it's not an NCAA sport. I think that's a great point, John. I think that is coming. I do. Future?
• 52:24
  Kind of in the same boat, I think. We're growing in Illinois. We had 180-something teams registered this year, and we're hoping to get more high schools into it. And at the college level, it's growing, too. It's humongous. There are college tournaments where they're having tens of thousands of dollars in prizes for the students. Is it a scholarship at all? It is. It is already? Yes. So I actually have three students that have scholarships to play.
• 52:51
  in college next year. Well, congratulations. Yeah, I'm pretty excited for them to see what they do. One of them is going to have to completely switch games because it's a game they don't offer in high school. So he's playing a game called Overwatch. He's at home right now practicing. Yeah, learning that game. He's only on his second energy degree. We don't do, most schools still don't have like full rides or anything like that. Sure. But some of them are getting like half tuition.
• 53:18
  Which is a big deal for them. Especially at Price College anymore. And they get to play video games for it. So that's awesome. That's cool. Good deal. Stan, closing remarks, anything? Well, I just want to say thank you so much for teaching my daughter this year in chemistry. Of course. Yep, that's been great. And thank you so much, John. You have been just a great friend. You've got a great friend to us. It's been amazing.
• 53:43
  Congratulations to both of you, and I appreciate what you do. You know, coaching is coaching and influencing kids and teaching life lessons through a game or a sport, and you guys are doing it at a high level, and it's really cool to hear. I'm so glad you shared this because there's a lot of people that know about these sports, or maybe they didn't, but they know, but they don't know the details of it, and I think you guys have done a great job of explaining that to the people watching, and they'll get a kick out of something different on here.
• 54:09
  Yeah, appreciate you guys. Well, I ended my career with 28 years. What did you end with? You were in the 30s. 33. 28 and 33. 37 coaching. That's 61, so you guys have got a few more to go. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Well, thank you guys again. And thank you guys for tuning in, listening, and watching. And we want to thank Crown Brew and Ross and Abby. Don't forget videography and photography for weddings with these two. They're amazing. I want to thank my buddies at Adrenaline, Jeff and Matt.
• 54:37
  for your fundraising needs want to thank tony gooch for sponsoring us and you have plumbing needs give tony a call he's a great dude and and to our sponsors we appreciate it we appreciate all the feedback we've been getting lately you know we took a little hiatus and it was like during that time more and more people said hey i love the podcast keep it going and so uh thanks to ross and being flexible and being patient we're finding more and more people to get on here and even some different things like this today which i think was a real blessing to have these two on and
• 55:05
  Man, they just did an amazing job. Thanks, Stan, for being here today again, man. So thanks for joining us. Look forward to seeing you next time. See you then.