Latest / Skin Anarchy / Hallie Gould, Senior Editor at Byrdie Interview

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Hallie Gould, Senior Editor at Byrdie Interview · Skin Anarchy

• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Skid Care Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host Ecta.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm so excited to introduce you guys to our guest today.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: She is truly a rock star in the editorial world and has an amazing portfolio and career background.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hallie is a senior editor at Birdie, and she has written for some amazing and very reputable publications.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Hallie Gould.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hallie, thank you so much for coming on to our show.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's truly an honor to host you.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, could you tell us about yourself and your background and um just writing and how you got started?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um I kind of always knew that I wanted to be a writer.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Sort of started when I was in high school.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um I thought I wanted to be a fashion writer at first.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then so throughout college, I did fashion internships and um I majored in communication arts, which was kind of like a make your own major at my school.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a lot of communications classes, journalism classes, stuff like that.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then sort of once I got out of school, I started working at a hair salon just while I was freelancing, trying to make money, um, just like through a mutual friend, I got the job.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that sort of really opened up the world of beauty for me in a way more viable way as a career option.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think I just felt ultimately more connected to it than I did to fashion.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think um the job opportunities that came afterwards kind of kept also sorry, I live on a busy street, so you might hear the cars.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, no worries.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so the jobs that I got afterwards um kind of kept me on that track, and I just realized beauty was kind of more my thing and um something that I felt uh I had more to say about in the space.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so my first uh my first editor job out of school was at this um digital-only beauty site called Real Beauty.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was a hearst publication at the time.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that was really incredible because it was a really small team.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was not connected to a magazine, so that there was a little bit less red tape than there was with like traditional legacy brands.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um I had a much larger role, I think, than the average fresh out of college student did.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that was incredible.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: I went from there to Marie Claire where I did uh social media for them.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it was kind of it's funny to say it now because I think now it's a much larger role than it was then.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, social media huge now, yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so social media wasn't the what it wasn't what it is now then, but it still uh was very much part of how the site got traffic, and it was very much um starting to become huge for the brands um in the case of you know developing a voice, and then also in getting new people to click and be interested in the coverage and stuff.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then from Marie Clare, um I went to this other sort of digital startup, which was called Mimi.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was a time ink brand.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that I was there for like a year, and that has since uh sort of like rolled up into as part of Instyle.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went to Birdie and I've been at Birdie um as senior editor for five years.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be five years in January, so it's been a while.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is awesome! That's quite the journey.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've seen all things editorial, it feels like at this point.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think it it's interesting, I think, in that I had a lot of jobs sort of in the beginning where it was like I would stay for a year, go somewhere else, stay for a year, go somewhere else.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's it's been, I think, really interesting during the last five years to be in one place and sort of be be able to be part of a brand and grow with the brand.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's been sort of like really beautiful about my time with Bertie.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is it that inspires you the most about like beauty?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know you said that it was a space that you felt like it was better for you, a better fit.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, what inspired you about it?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's so many things.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that um, you know, surface level, I think when people hear beauty, they think, you know, hair, makeup, skincare, yeah, uh, that type of stuff.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that is, you know, very much a part of it and something that I really love.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: I love launches, I love makeup, I love skincare products, I love trying new things.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love writing about that stuff too.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that there's a real place for that and a real, you know, yearning from readers for you know, product reviews and what's going on with these makeup brands and what's happening with this palette and you know, all that stuff.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the thing that people forget to think about that is inherently sort of at the core of beauty is all of these other things, you know, like mental health, joy, confidence, comfort, all of these things that kind of go into the way that we feel um in our bodies and the way that we look, yes, but also, you know, this the health of our skin, yeah, our hair, you know.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Everything, everything that goes into self-care, really.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think I think that's the part that that um that I really like to dig into.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that the industry as a whole now is sort of trying to dig into um the sort of like it's not about rules, it's not about you know traditional standards, it's more about like what makes you feel good and like what keeps you healthy and joyful, and and I think that is the thing that really does attract me to beauty and inspires me to keep doing it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like I've there are so many things that I've read from other writers or that I've had the chance to write for um Birdie or other publications that I'm like, if when I was younger, if I had this thing, if I could be searching whatever awful thing I was searching and instead find this thing that was helpful um and kind and rooted sort of in self-love, I think it it would have really made a difference in this any kind of struggle that I had in my life.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think yeah, and how you received that information too, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, yeah, that's an excellent point.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that um, you know, like growing up, it was almost like there wasn't really, I never felt like magazines were like speaking to me directly, but like they were always sharing cool trends and there were always like these things.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that you bring up such a great point with that, um, that personality aspect or that personalized aspect rather.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think you know, all we can do is try to change those things.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think traditional um women's media, and and I guess I say women's media because that's sort of what it's historically historically been called.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just for women.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think you know, there's there's some like underlying seediness that has always been a part of it, which is that like follow this these rules, look a certain way, yeah, um, and you will ultimately find happiness, you know, all this stuff.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's exactly and I think that that is something that um is starting to change, at least in in a lot of places, and at least like I know with Bert Birdie is a place where our team has a really heavy hand in what happens.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a corporate environment with a lot of red tape, and um, so many of the editors have been there for so long that it's it's it's we've really been able to kind of like like turn this site and use this voice as what we think it should be, and it it doesn't have to be, you know, one thing or the other.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's a nice mix, yeah.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think you know, what that brings up for me honestly is like there's so much conversation about well, there's this bunch of white men sitting at the top telling women how to look.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, where?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I see wonderful women um such as yourself sitting in the editorial world.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are bringing great content to people.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is it's not, you know what I mean?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like mythbusters, I feel like.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean I appreciate that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I do, I mean, it is true that at a lot of large public publishing companies, the the sort of higher-ups are white men, and and I think that happens.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that that obviously is at the root of a lot of issues that come up with um with women's media.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, and I think it's like the I think the issue is is even if it's not a white man at the top, like there's all it, I think that the issue will always be representation in-house.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that um, yeah, and so I think the more publications try to fix this sort of like hiring problems that makes it so that there are not only just like white men as CEOs, but like white women in only in editor roles and things like that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like as long as it continues, that it's like not we're having different voices on the site, not only because we're hiring freelancers who have various experiences that we don't have, but also because we're hiring in-house, so that those experiences can be consistently diverse, even when you're not writing about specific to um like like topics specific to the black community or topics specifically to um any kind of non-white issue.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think it should be, you know, it's not just white people writing about these things.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I mean, I hear you because it's also like until this job, until because we were acquired in 2018 to a company called Dot Dash.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so until we were acquired, I had like never even seen like a man in the office before.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's just like I, you know, I like feel for people that are dealing with these issues with male bosses, but I was just like, I just can't relate.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have never had I don't feel oppressed by the people.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there are there are other, you know, there are always other ways to feel uncomfortable, but that was never something that that directly in your work environment.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: You yeah, no, and I think I think you know what, it's it's something that needs to be brought up because um it's so easy to point the finger, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then just be like, oh, this person did this, and that's why I am now bleaching my skin to look like this.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's really where I am so concerned um about women because they make excuses in some ways.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some women, not all women, obviously, but you know, the this whole idea of well, someone else is telling me how to look, at some point the responsibility has to come into your own hand, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it has to come into the hand of the consumer and say, well, I'm what am I really inspired by?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I find that the editorial world is just such a huge area where you know, that's why I I'm always asking to talk to people like yourself because I want to get that real, you know, insight um rather than just these stories that are circulating around about you know, someone's not telling me to be myself enough or whatnot.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I find that really interesting.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think um, yeah, I think that there has to always be space for people to feel comfortable kind of breaking with conventions.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like you know, I think it it's always looking looking to people who, you know, for example, anyone, oh my god, my garbage can is automatic and it just opened while I was talking.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a ghost in the house.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think I I would never I would I I feel like I I can't judge anyone for looking for um advice from people who are working in the industry, or in this case, kind of like influencers or notables or people with platforms, people that are visible for you know advice on trends or uh various uh feelings.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think um as long as people who have a platform are open about you know, not being perfect, not everything feels good, like not everything, um, not every product is marketed towards you, like all of these things, like open even opening up about like, yeah, product marketing, um, the way that companies are trying to make you feel when they show you their advertisements, the way that that type of manipulation happens to, you know, it's like I don't think, of course, I think that everybody should have their own volition and they should be able to be like, I'm not into that, um, I'm not gonna get manipulated by that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think it's it's up to the people who are writing the things and reading the things and making the things to kind of like allow for that space, like allow for readers um to make their own decisions by saying, you know, do what you want, like we don't make the rules, like do what feels good.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it has to be that kind of like partnership between reader and you know, editor or influencer or brand or whatever, kind of like opening that that space for everyone to feel comfortable doing what feels good, you know.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, exactly.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with that, and I think also, you know, for me, I I can only speak for myself.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think for me when I was growing up and like I'm in my 30s now, you know, I got my inspiration for beauty from all the places I went, you know, whether it's traveling or the people I met in college, or you know, there were so many people who influenced what I think is my personal style or what I think that looks good on me, that yeah, you're right.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to open up this space and you have to be open-minded.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my only thing that I'm curious about is in in this in the world of just, you know, you know, they'll notice me if I do this.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: That that culture I feel like needs to go away.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think um it's it's a hard ask, I think, for everyone to always feel completely, you know, empowered and secure in what they're doing, um, without recognition from other people, whether that is kind of like a feature in a publication, or even just like, you know, your boss telling you you're doing a good job, or your friends telling you you look great, or like all of that stuff.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's it's so human to want that type of um recognition.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, even like you like buy a new outfit and feel really amazing in it, and you're like, I look great, I feel great, and it's like if nobody says anything, it's still a bummer.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like your your your best friend doesn't even notice.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hi.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a really human feeling, even on on a granular level, even if it's not about you know recognition from thousands of people or magazines or whatever it is.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think it um it's I think yeah, I think it would be a hard ask for people to ever really feel like they don't need at least a little bit of kind of like words of affirmation.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, of course I agree with you that that my hope is that ultimately people can be able to find that type of stuff within themselves um without magazines featuring them or yeah, anything really.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not just about magazines.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you in the medical world, it's like, well, you know, um, did this certain doctor or this certain attending notice my efforts?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, oh, they notice so and so's efforts, I'm not good enough, that kind of thing, you know.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's everywhere, like you said.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's in every industry, it's in every, you know, sector of basically humanity.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I think that, you know, it's just something that we all need to, you know, sit down and think about.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do we all do it?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not, I'm not, you know, void of that either.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've done the same thing, I do it every day where it's like, you know, it's natural, like you said.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I want to okay, so I want to shift focus.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go to skincare because um that's really why I invited you on.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I love skincare, and I want to um see what your take is on what's going on in the industry right now.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think is like the new thing or the cool thing?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so yeah, skincare is uh has a huge part of my heart.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of always been my beat uh in in terms of like what I cover and what I care about.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that so what obviously a lot of kind of like at-home stuff now has been gaining popularity, obviously, because um we can't go anywhere.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: But uh so I I have always been kind of like hearing about tools, and people love various skincare tools, and I've never gotten into anything before because I just always thought it was kind of difficult to understand, and there's like beeping, and how long do you hold it and move it?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, there's like a gel that you put on before, and do you wash it?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've always been confused by tools.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but there is one that I have been using every single day that I think is so simple and makes such an unbelievable difference.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um the Gillian Dempsey gold bar.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: So also it's um it's incredible, it's also uh pricey, and so I'm pretty sure there are other ones that do the same thing on Amazon, though I would have to do some research, so don't hold me to that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so it's just like this gold bar with a little, it's like it has a handle and a little T at the end.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: You turn it on, um, and it vibrates, and basically all you have to do is kind of like rub it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's for lymphatic drainage.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so you just uh do your skincare routine and then kind of like rub it up along the jawline, and uh you can rub it.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: I sort of like hold my brows up with it because they can get kind of droopy, and it just kind of like sculpts and depuffs your face, so it's really nice in the morning.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you only do it for like five minutes and it makes such a difference.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think also for me, especially, because I'm really prone to like unbelievable sort of just like puffiness when I wake up in the morning, like along my under eyes and sort of like cheeks and jaw.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'll just run it along my jaw, up and out, sort of like where your lymph nodes drain is kind of like down, it's like up your jawbone and then to your ear and like down your neck.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's like the whole circuit up there.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, yep, I know what you mean.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'll just do that for like five minutes after my skincare routine, and then all of kind of like the morning, like puffy gunk is like gone from my face, and it makes such an unbelievable difference.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you can even, yeah, do it kind of like down your neck, and then I have um TMJ, so I I grind my teeth a lot and and have a lot of sort of like tension in my jaw.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: I learned since that um people just hold tension in their bodies in different places, and for me, that's my shoulders and my jaw, and so you can take the edge of the bar and while it's vibrating, just kind of like bring it along um into the masseter muscle, which is the thing that kind of gets really painful.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it kind of like shakes out all of that tension in this really like amazingly satisfying way.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I don't even know about this.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I need to look this up, this like next level skin tool.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: It is amazing because it, I mean, it is like it's less intense than um, you know, for example, the new face, which I also know works really well.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I just it's something that I never got into because I don't like that I have to put on the gel beforehand and then it beeps, and I'm kind of just confused by it.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is like you know, a foolproof tool that really works pretty instantly.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's also pretty good if you're gonna put on makeup um because it can like kind of uh smooth out any creases under your eyes and stuff like that.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then Gillian Dempsey actually also just launched uh uh like under eye masks that she uses with the tool, which is like such a treat to do, and she really like makes she's a celebrity makeup artist so she she makes these launches kind of with makeup prep in mind so all of her stuff uh is really good for your skin but then also um is really great for doing right before putting on makeup so it it's like multi-use basically yeah yeah so I'm really into that I'm yeah I think that tools have been really big obviously um because everybody is kind of I mean spas and stuff are open here now but for a while they weren't and people have whatever level of comfort they have um going or staying home so they're trying to do some some of the stuff that they would do at a facialist at home.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I also think there's been a really big kind of shift um for a long time it was everybody was really into um acids and you know glowiness and and brightening and yeah everyone is like all about chemical exfoliation these days the chemical exfoliation was really big and for good reason for a really long time but I think it's kind of now the sort of bounce back from that is happening where everybody everybody's kind of like irritated their skin I still feel like now what I've been really into is just like calming soothing comforting like um kind of like moisture barrier protecting products so things I I mean I definitely still use my um exfoliating toner I still you know I still use uh a chemical exfoliator because I I do love the way that it makes my skin feel look um but I think I was just so obsessed with the because you know because it's exfoliating it's you know taking off layers of your skin yeah the no no no it makes a huge difference and I feel like there are people that are like oh well you don't need an exfoliator I'm like ah yeah I do because when I don't use it my my skin feels like sandpaper it's like I need that you know so yeah I get it I was the same way and so I was it was kind of the only products that would give me that sort of like immediate um instant gratification like my skin looks better but what I realized was that I actually was kind of like messing I was just doing it too often um and with too many because the other thing is that it's important to know kind of what are all the ingredients in all of your products because sometimes there'll be exfoliating ingredients in a product that you didn't realize and then you're overdoing it.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: And anyway that's kind of what was happening to me and I think to a lot of people because all of a sudden we were being all of these launches and all of these marketing plans were about that like instant glow like exfoliation like all this stuff so now I feel like it's been all right let's like cool it on that.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah yeah go back to um what makes our skin feel good and um protected and healthy and so I think well balanced right I was talking to I was talking to Divya from Wonder Beauty and she brought up the word balance and I was like I love that word like can we please put that in every marketing thing for every skincare because honestly it's like balance balance balance you know we can't we can't disrupt the acid mantle we can't you know keep doing things that are gonna just kill our skin barrier I mean that's just not healthy but I I hear you I know what you mean the overall feeling yeah I I don't know if you've heard about um this new this new tool um droplet I I've been using droplet lately and it's made my skin amazing yeah it's oh my gosh Holly seriously check it out like it's like the coolest like it's a device basically so these two women from MIT they're MIT grads and they came up with this amazing technology and basically what it does is takes all these actives that we love like glycolic acid collagen um I think they have uh retinol in there as well and it aerosolizes it into a mist form and then we just yes I was just reading about this actually oh my gosh it's amazing like I used it my skin was irritated I used it one day and then my skin is amazing now I don't know what they did but it works.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then mist it on and it's supposed to better penetrate your skin.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right and then they make these little capsules like like they come with these little capsules of like the different ingredients and then you just pop one in and you know done like you're supposed to use it like in place of a serum yeah so like you know how we put on like a glycolic acid serum right or like we'll put on like a collagen serum well instead of that you just like wash your skin and then I guess do whatever you want to do in terms of exfoliation.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I I mean I just wash my skin and then I'll use it and overnight like you know you just it's your skincare routine for the night basically and um you can use the multiple like they've got the three capsules so you can use all three if you want it doesn't hurt your skin.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I found it to be really really um refreshing actually because it's this mist form and it's not like you know what I mean it's just like it's a mist and it's going it's supposed to be going deeper into your layers.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So like the um I was talking to them the other day the founders and they said it's like 20 cell thick penetration like you can go into like 20 layers of cells and deliver those actives deeper.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's amazing yeah it's pretty cool.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So check it out if you have a chance um I just did like a major pitch for them but like I just I really love the product.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um but no like I think tools are definitely the new thing in skincare and I'm I'm excited to see people using so it's pretty cool.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me more tell me more about what you're working on right now.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something you're excited about like something coming out or um what is exciting um well we just launched our uh our second digital issue um we started doing covers our first one was in September and our second one was um early uh like a couple weeks ago we had uh um it was literally like 20 stories that we commissioned around the theme dualities we came up we kind of just brainstormed around um what we were thinking and feeling and you know through having been like you know nine months into this pandemic and sort of like what what are the things that we need right now or feeling right now or would want to read right now we had Lily Collins on the cover um and she it was a really really beautiful shoot and uh yeah that's that's been like sort of the most exciting thing that we've done um recently because those are always kind of like such a labor of love.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it was like 20 pieces of content which was in and of itself like a huge thing to deal with and then putting together kind of like what the cover will look like the shoot and all that.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really exciting.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to think what else is coming up we have this uh I mean yeah now we're doing a bunch of sort of holiday stuff we're trying to sort of brainstorm around like what this um you know holiday season slash new years slash January time will feel like and and and with that kind of like what people will want to read or what will be helpful um for people to see on our site because certainly I wouldn't want to see a bunch of like hey new year new you like fitness no more gym memberships please we've been trying to sort of come up with what um what something serviceable for our readers will be kind of during that time because it is you know a lot of people are spending the holidays alone that feels weird um how can we kind of make um content around that and then also will what okay so like what will January look like we've all been like talking shit about 2020 this whole time but like now what what's gonna happen in 2021 like what will that shift be like um yeah and kind of like how do we rethink resolutions and and sort of just the way that we look at like New Year stuff.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's sort of what we've been working on um and kind of brainstorming around so it'll be kind of this more like hope and healing theme versus like yeah like oh I love that sugar you know not that very like that but that's kind of like usually what the content people are searching for during that time is so yeah no I love that and I honestly you know what I'm gonna ask you this because I don't think people understand how busy of a lifestyle it is in the editorial world so can you take me through like a day in your life like it's I know it's very like random but I really want people to know how much hard work goes behind all these publications and what you do.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: It just it's truly truly good work.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I want everybody to know.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I mean it is um there are some things that happen every single day and then there are some things that it's like oh we're planning for this one thing so like this week is like crazy with just this one thing but then it's done and whatever.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: So for me personally um I curate what ends up going on the homepage.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: So anything that's on birdie.com is like because I put it there we have an oddly manual programming system.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so I um kind of manage the edit calendar what goes up when and so um every day I plan or every day I plan I I try to be a few days in advance but um so every day I plan what will be on the site like on the homepage the next day and that's based off of like um things that my the writers that I manage have written things that the writers that Faith has written or managed have written and then the rest of our team so we we're split up in sort of like um Faith and I Faith is um our editorial director Faithway she and I um manage writers that pitch and have more of kind of like a timely trending vibe to it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: So like things that are happening personal essays um things that are less evergreen and then our team members uh Lindsay and Holly work more on evergreen and SEO so they have teams of writers who write around keywords.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so every day there'll be new content that comes into the edit calendar and I kind of decide when it goes on the homepage if it goes on the homepage um and how it's gonna look so I'll like uh look at the images if the image that isn't in there if the images that are in there don't work with the other things that are going to be on the homepage I'll switch it out or change the title or um different stuff like that sort of change stuff around to um so that it kind of looks good and so that we I make sure that we have like you know not too much wellness today not too much skincare today not all makeup things like that so that there's a nice mix of the story.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then so that's so I plan that um the night before or like a few nights before just for what's gonna like show up the next day.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then every day it's kind of working with um freelancers that we manage to uh they pitch stories kind of on a monthly cadence so it's editing building publishing and writing um I definitely write less than I used to which bums me out still but I try and do it when there's time you know um when are we gonna get the Hallie blog?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: We need to get the the personal blog oh yeah no I mean I yeah I I have I have like so many stories that are like half written that I just like haven't had time to finish.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: So they'll be I I that's kind of like what my resolution for the new year is going to be is to just make sure that I'm writing more because it is the thing that I love and kind of like what is so fun about this job.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's everything else is fun too but um so yeah it's a lot of editing um various freelancers and then uh lots of meetings about stuff um obviously before the pandemic there was a lot of running around it's less like that now yeah so yeah it used to be a lot of events and desk sides and all of that stuff and so desk sides and events still exist kind of over Zoom so it's they're less time consuming certainly um and then like what else is there?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's always kind of yeah just like a million things planning for the digital issue where we have eco awards every year that we plan for putting that stuff together um working with our designer for visual stuff um planning we have monthly themes around for edit um so planning what the monthly themes are gonna be and um assigning out stories to freelancers and other editors uh we just did a huge push for gift guide so it was kind of like brainstorming around what people would actually want to read about in terms of holiday gifts um during a yeah I feel like there's so many this year like are is that am I wrong or are there so I feel like yeah I mean I feel like there's always so many but this time around it's more difficult because you're like okay well there are a lot of people who don't have jobs and there are a lot of people who aren't going to be with their families how much are they willing to spend how much can they spend do does do they even like what are and also like being wary of like okay well we want to be making sure making sure that we're prioritizing um small businesses doing less Amazon stuff it's like there's a lot of stuff that's been going on in this pandemic that I think um has brought attention to the way that we spend our money and so we need to be cognizant of that especially when we're doing like roundups of how people should spend their money.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah so it's a lot it's a lot of brainstorming and meetings and strategizing and then kind of trying to figure out how to execute those things um as well as yeah like editing and and building and and writing sometimes yeah yeah no I mean I think that's really cool that you bring up the whole COVID thing because right now um I know there's a lot of people out there whether they're influencers or just private accounts, you know, consumers everyone's talking about well save your money you know because we don't know what's gonna happen and 2021 I'm crossing my fingers that it's not going to be as much of a mind you know what a you know what I'm not gonna curse on air but you know I hope not.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it's amazing for everybody.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah like saving money is this new thing right now that everyone's really focused on.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that you guys are keeping that in mind.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um I mean yeah I think with the pandemic with you know when March came around it was like we had to do a lot of rethinking the stuff that we were doing and the things that we were planning to do because it was like okay well you know 75% of what we talk about on this website is either spending money on something or going to do something going you know whatever.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like all right well how do we rethink how we uh approach this content and our readers in a way that is respectful of the fact that like not everybody has money to spend and I I'm sure I mean that's always true but especially now and the fact that no one can go anywhere.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it's a lot of like okay like how do we kind of like dial this back and like approach beauty from a more organic place.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: And like what are the topics that we can talk about and the things that will like make a difference to people outside of like okay buy this product or you know go get whatever.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or also like minimalism right like it's like people are so going towards minimalism and I'm sorry but I'm not gonna buy the BS of it's like you know I don't want more products.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more of the economic thing more than anything.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people are doing it because it is more economically you know you know practical to buy three things that work really well for you and versus like 10 or 15 right so and yeah I mean it's like inherently uh people are wearing less makeup because they're not going anywhere or they have to wear a mask I mean I certainly every time I put on makeup and then wear a mask I break out even like before I'm home.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like even out like for dinner to sit outside or like have a drink outside or whatever.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll be like oh okay I'll like put on a little makeup by the time I get home I've always broken out from wearing the mask and I'm not even like I I don't have particularly acne prone skin so it's like there the complications of the mask and and skin stuff is real.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah no I had a friend who she is an influencer and she broke out and she couldn't figure out what product did it and I felt like so bad but I was like all I can do right now is recommend products I know that don't break me out.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I don't know you know so I yeah it's tough that I mean that's another thing that's tough about this business too is that it's like it's really hard to recommend products to people because everybody's in is different.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like something that I love can be awful for someone else or vice versa and I've had that happen and it's it's unfortunate because you're like supposed to be in the know and I'm just like I don't know I mean it it works for me.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: No it's so hard because skincare especially you know and even makeup it's like a very very personalized thing.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know how our skin's gonna react I mean you can say something like I have sensitive skin well to what degree because you know what I mean like it's so hard to tell so I completely agree with you.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah that's that's you know a huge factor I think right now for people is really picking out what's my product you know what's what's gonna work for you like for me I know the St.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Jane's serum works amazing for me.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you know like I still love ponds you know I still love you know Estee Lauder and you know those things work for me.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah it's a it's a personal journey.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: I agree well thank you Hallie so much for your time this has been seriously amazing.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just I love talking to people with this different perspective you know what I mean so I just it's been so nice to talk to you.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's been so wonderful to talk to you.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it was truly our pleasure um everybody out l listening out there please make sure you subscribe to our podcast and rate it on iTunes Spotify Google podcasts whatever you're using to listen and um leave any comments or questions you have for Hallie in our cover art and I'll pass them along to her if she has time.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah I'll talk to you guys next time thank you so much.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you bye hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I'd love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 41:59
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• 42:07
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• 42:13
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• 42:23
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• 42:29
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• 42:30
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• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you