Latest / Spill The Wine / Spill the Wine episode 10: A wine tasting with a view! A visit to Dobbin Estate Winery

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Spill the Wine episode 10: A wine tasting with a view! A visit to Dobbin Estate Winery · Spill The Wine

• 0:00
  Andrea Morris [00:00:00]: Hello, friends. I'm Andrea Morris, and welcome to another episode of Still the Wine, a podcast about wine, where we not only do wine tastings, but we also kind of distill some myths about wine. Like, it has to be expensive in order to be great and that you have to know tons of things about wine in order to enjoy it. But but, actually, the more you listen to this podcast, the more you will learn about wine, and then you'll enjoy it even more. So today, we are having a wonderful tasting at one of the newer wineries in the area. It's called Dauben, and we're here with Nathan and Dave. Hello.
• 0:01
  Nathan [00:00:35]: Hey. How
• 0:02
  Dave [00:00:35]: you doing?
• 0:03
  Andrea Morris [00:00:36]: Welcome to the podcast, and thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to, talk with us and to experience your fantastic wines. Now I said you're one of the new old winery. When did you actually open your doors for tastings?
• 0:04
  Nathan [00:00:49]: We've been it's been a little, we've done it in bits and pieces. We started 02/2019, and it was probably last year we opened our doors to do some preliminary tastings, but this is our first full scale year.
• 0:05
  Andrea Morris [00:01:02]: Great. And how long have you had the property then since
• 0:06
  Nathan [00:01:05]: 02/2019.
• 0:07
  Andrea Morris [00:01:06]: Two thousand '19. And how many acres do you have?
• 0:08
  Nathan [00:01:09]: It's a 50 acre, property with 17 acres under vine.
• 0:09
  Andrea Morris [00:01:12]: It's absolutely stunningly beautiful property. Listener, you're you can't see it, but, your wine tastings take place in a tower, which is so cool. I feel so medieval. Like, if I had mom here, I'd be Rapunzel. But with a beautiful view over a pond, and you can see your vineyards in the background. And it's just really relaxing, and it's just very classy as well, which I think sets the standard for what your wines are about. Right? Yeah. No.
• 0:10
  Andrea Morris [00:01:40]: Thanks. I mean, our our ultimate goal really just
• 0:11
  Nathan [00:01:43]: do something that we thought was pretty cool. You know, we wanted, I mean, it is a it is a a fairly premium wine, but we just wanted what we thought was cool. It's kinda like the adult, treehouse.
• 0:12
  Andrea Morris [00:01:57]: Did you build this this particular building then? We did.
• 0:13
  Nathan [00:01:59]: And there was a lot of thought that went into it. It's a family endeavor, so my uncle was really big on having gardens. We both liked the idea of having something that was that adds some, you know, contemplative experience to the wine. So we did, we looked at different towers and basically stole a bunch of different ideas from a bunch of different places and made this. But the idea was to be able to get a a lucky vineyard, like you mentioned, from a pop and experience the vineyards as they're tasting. That was a pretty interesting idea.
• 0:14
  Andrea Morris [00:02:30]: Kind of immersive without being immersive.
• 0:15
  Nathan [00:02:33]: Yeah. Yeah. And you get to be indoors. And, at the same time, you get to be indoors in a way.
• 0:16
  Andrea Morris [00:02:38]: The first time I came here, I had planned to have a tasting on the patio, but it was pouring down rain. So instead, we were upstairs on the very top of the tower, which was ended up being a really cool experience.
• 0:17
  Nathan [00:02:50]: Yeah. And I think I that, I think you're the first person actually I would taste in up
• 0:18
  Dave [00:02:55]: there to be honest. Absolutely.
• 0:19
  Andrea Morris [00:02:56]: Yay. It's pretty
• 0:20
  Nathan [00:02:57]: cool because
• 0:21
  Dave [00:02:57]: you can actually see the escarpment and everything from there as well and actually get to see the slopes of the vineyard outcomes down, up into the pond that feeds 16 by three tier.
• 0:22
  Andrea Morris [00:03:07]: It that was that was a really interesting and really fun experience. Now you're you have kind of a different approach to is you are most of your wines organic that your your
• 0:23
  Nathan [00:03:18]: Yeah. So our so our all of our state wines are organic. We're a % organic. And that was the legacy of the the previous owner that that started twenty five years before we got here so that, I think we're we're definitely the oldest organic farm in Ontario or quite possibly in Canada or urban region. Jason. Yeah.
• 0:24
  Andrea Morris [00:03:36]: Now just in case someone's listening and isn't quite sure what you mean by organic farming, can you clarify that a little bit more? Like, as a winery, what does being organic actually mean?
• 0:25
  Nathan [00:03:47]: It I mean, mostly, it's just not using conventional sprays is is the main thing. So they're they're not hazardous using things like, sulfur and copper sprays. It's a lot more vigilance to take care of it. I mean, it's 17 acres. I wouldn't wish on anyone over that size, to be honest, because you've you've gotta be on top of everything really quickly. It's definitely doable, but it's a lot more vigilance. But it does I mean, you're not denuding the the soils of nutrients. You're not I mean, and it's even just on a personal level, you know, for my kid or family or anyone who works here, there's, with conventional space, there's like a forty eight or seventy two hour turnaround before you can even go back into the vineyards if you spray them.
• 0:26
  Nathan [00:04:32]: But we think it lends a lot to listen to the flavors of the wine. I don't think you get a realistic snapshot of the taro r without it, to be honest.
• 0:27
  Andrea Morris [00:04:41]: Do you think that it makes, like, the it it really affects the skin as well and the on of the grape?
• 0:28
  Nathan [00:04:48]: I I honestly didn't say much. I I've been say I mean, in the grand scheme, it it probably lends something, you know, to every part of the the vine and the fruit. I honestly would I'd be I'd be lying if I pretended to know that it actually dealt with the skins. Dave hasn't been me on it.
• 0:29
  Dave [00:05:06]: Yeah. No. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure exactly what, the effects are of it on me exact like, the skins of the grapes particularly. But when Nathan said, having that reentry period of forty eight to seventy two hours, is a long time for us. Like you said, it's 17 acres, which is manageable for us to go through. I like going through the vineyard, at least three, four times a week just to make sure. And with such a small acreage, we're able to go through and look at all the particular blocks and binds and everything. So by not having that that reentry period, we're able to get out and be able to forecast and see whatever's going on within the vineyard at that time.
• 0:30
  Andrea Morris [00:05:48]: And not feel, like, creepy, like, when you spray yourself with with off or something, you just feel like I have to shower afterwards.
• 0:31
  Nathan [00:05:56]: Yeah. We I mean, you'll see it in vineyards. And I'm not, I mean, like I said, I'm not criticize anyone that is using conventional because if you've got a, like, if you've got a larger acreage bought, I I don't know how you do it organically, to be honest, if you, you know, had hundred acres. Mhmm. I don't I don't think you could could manage it, to be honest. I mean, people do. I'm sure they do, but I I it would be tough. So I'd talk to those that are biggest slots that are doing our BI as well, especially with
• 0:32
  Dave [00:06:20]: our staff size that we have here.
• 0:33
  Andrea Morris [00:06:22]: Is it, like, three or two?
• 0:34
  Nathan [00:06:26]: Fifth Garrett, a shout out. And Yeah. Yeah. He's the third Musketeer.
• 0:35
  Andrea Morris [00:06:29]: So how many varietals do you have on the property? Four. Four?
• 0:36
  Nathan [00:06:33]: Yep. Yeah. We do Pinot Noir, Ducasse Franc, Chardonnay, and Riese Loam. That's specific to that order.
• 0:37
  Andrea Morris [00:06:41]: Were these all fines that were already here when you bought the property, or did you plant them all?
• 0:38
  Nathan [00:06:46]: No. We had so we have we have three vineyards. There are about three the one behind us, which is the the, the Faye Vineyard, it's about three acres. The one the driveway when you drove in is about two, and we've got about a 12 acre plot across the pond there. Then the one behind us and the one across the pond, we replanted. The previous one had Vidal in the Bay Vineyard there. And the one across the pond, the Martin Vineyard, it was just every conceivable variety. It was like every three rows, it changed.
• 0:39
  Nathan [00:07:19]: There was 120 rows over there. So we decided to replant. And a big part was that we wanted to go, like I said before we started talking, we predominantly wanted to do Pinot and Chardonnay, and we were convinced to do Riesling and Cab Franc, we also convinced ourselves of. But it's focused. So we wanna be focus driven. We wanna make sure we're not overdoing it with varietals. We wanna make sure that same with the acreage, we don't wanna expand it. It's something we wanna be able to keep a focus on what we're doing.
• 0:40
  Nathan [00:07:51]: So that'll be the that'll be the the four we'll always stick with. And they're the best performing in this in this region, for sure.
• 0:41
  Andrea Morris [00:07:57]: And even with the Pinot, you could still, like, maybe do some other things with that. Or the Cab Franc, you can always do a rose at one point if you feel like it.
• 0:42
  Nathan [00:08:05]: Yeah. We we we're you know, it's it's sorry. I should Dave's talking. Yeah. I'll I'll say it might be. The but, yeah, I mean, we're we're open. I mean, this thing every season's different. So you're gonna be at the mercy of what the season gives you.
• 0:43
  Nathan [00:08:22]: And, you know, we're it's supposed to be fun at the end of the day. So I mean,
• 0:44
  Dave [00:08:26]: you Yeah. Absolutely. As well as, yeah, with, with, you know, I know, this year, actually, we did burn in. So, you know, that's gonna be going towards some sparkle in the future. Oh. So yeah. Yeah. So far, we've just unblocked the bog, so that'll that'll be really cool.
• 0:45
  Dave [00:08:40]: We'll still move forward.
• 0:46
  Andrea Morris [00:08:42]: Oh, sounds like great things are in store for the for the future here. So why don't we, get started and taste some of your wine?
• 0:47
  Nathan [00:08:50]: Sure. I'll let Dave explain what Oreo taste. Okay. Perfect. Sure.
• 0:48
  Andrea Morris [00:08:54]: Alright. What are we starting with, Dave?
• 0:49
  Dave [00:08:56]: Starting with our 2019 Chardonnay. It's from, 20 mile inch Appalachian. Some of it is from the property. However, as Nathan was saying, the only site that we didn't replant at the time in, in 2019 was the West Block right along the driveway there. So we had to outsource and, call on some some friends and, really good producers in, in the 20 area to acquire some some Chardonnay that went into this blend as well.
• 0:50
  Andrea Morris [00:09:26]: Just for people that are listening that don't know what appellation is, what are you what are you referring to?
• 0:51
  Dave [00:09:32]: Oh, for sure. So basically, you know, the broader spectrum of it is if you're familiar with Burgundy and everything like that, they were able to kind of codify certain plots of land based on whether it's historic, significant, their ability to make, certain levels of of grapes or quality and everything going forward. So it's a fairly new construct in Niagara to sort of delineate different areas within it to give, I guess, more or less customers' expectations for certain areas and what they can expect going forward from these certain styles of wine. So for us, for example, we're on the 20. So there's a bunch of different bench sites in the Niagara Region. And, where we are, all of our fruit for this Chardonnay is sourced from this specific area.
• 0:52
  Andrea Morris [00:10:30]: Is the 20 known for anything in particular, like the Chardonnay grapes? Or Chardonnay Pinot Noir. Okay.
• 0:53
  Dave [00:10:36]: Yeah. Perfect.
• 0:54
  Andrea Morris [00:10:39]: What's got a beautiful color to it? It's a little bit, I find it to be a little bit darker Mhmm. Than most than most Chardonnays. Is it filtered or unfiltered?
• 0:55
  Dave [00:10:48]: This is filtered. Okay. Yeah. Because I fight
• 0:56
  Andrea Morris [00:10:50]: with an unfiltered, they tend to be really, really dark. Mhmm. Got a really lovely nose on it.
• 0:57
  Dave [00:10:56]: Yeah. It's beautiful. The 2019 is really coming into its own. When we first opened it up, last year when we did our soft opening, it was it was showing really nice. And to be honest, the reason we're still pouring is that it just keeps developing with with age, and we're really, really proud of of the direction that it's going in.
• 0:58
  Andrea Morris [00:11:13]: It's very soft initially on the mallet. Like, on my tongue, it'd be really soft, and that's then that little bit of citrus just hits. Mhmm. And just a I I find it just, like, a lemon lime kind of maybe even a little pineapple.
• 0:59
  Nathan [00:11:28]: Got it. That's fair.
• 1:00
  Andrea Morris [00:11:32]: It's really the really nice full bodied Chardonnay.
• 1:01
  Dave [00:11:35]: It is. Absolutely. Oh,
• 1:02
  Nathan [00:11:36]: yeah. For sure. Yeah. It's, that's the the the great thing that our winemakers have been able to do. And from somebody that has, you know, zero to do with the winemaking, it's such a privilege, you know, to have to have these guys make something that's that shows so well that you're gonna be so proud of.
• 1:03
  Andrea Morris [00:11:52]: Yeah. Like, even like like third sip, a little buttery.
• 1:04
  Dave [00:11:55]: Mhmm. Yeah. We do full mallow on on all the chardonnays, at least so far. We haven't gone away from that. All of our cooperage, so all our barrels are French, Burgundian, oak. For the most part, for our Chardonnay, we try to keep it between 28, 20 five percent new oak to try and keep it a little bit more restrained. And the fact that it was still our 2019, we really wanna let that age come through so it's not hitting you over the head like a hammer, I guess.
• 1:05
  Andrea Morris [00:12:23]: Yeah. With, like, here's oh,
• 1:06
  Dave [00:12:25]: and Yeah. Exactly. So kind of the inverse of California.
• 1:07
  Nathan [00:12:29]: It's
• 1:08
  Andrea Morris [00:12:29]: just really, really good. Thank you. But I going like I could have two or three glasses of this right now and be quite happy.
• 1:09
  Nathan [00:12:38]: That's not hard to drink. That's for sure.
• 1:10
  Andrea Morris [00:12:40]: Not at all. And I will be honest. I'm not a lot of times a huge Chardonnay fan. But this is a really inviting and really welcoming Chardonnay because it just is it's so it's not harsh. I find sometimes Chardonnays are very I find them very sharp. Yep. But this is very soft and welcoming, and it's really a treat to drink.
• 1:11
  Nathan [00:13:00]: We get that a lot with with with people. We get that a lot with tastings where we book, you know, it'll be a a table full of business, businessmen, and they'll say, I I don't drink white. And then get locked away with, you know, a case of of reason and a case of Chardonnay fusion. And, and I get I get where they're coming from. It's similar. And I feel the same way, as you do. It's that that you're getting that mouth feel that you don't normally get, I would have got a lot of whites. Like, I mean, there's some people that are accomplishing as well, but it's not very common.
• 1:12
  Andrea Morris [00:13:29]: But, like, every sip, it's, like, it's another adventure because it just keeps opening up and and showing you a little bit more of what the wine is about with every sip. And if that's that's a really beautiful complex Chardonnay. And well done. Congratulations. Thank you. That's on I think it's one of my top Chardonnays in the area. So Fantastic. Yay.
• 1:13
  Andrea Morris [00:13:51]: So what's up next, Dave?
• 1:14
  Dave [00:13:53]: We have our twenty twenty Cabernet Blend. This is an 85% Cab Franc, 15% Merlot.
• 1:15
  Nathan [00:14:02]: This is one
• 1:16
  Dave [00:14:03]: of the, actually, the only wines that we've done that where none of it came from the property. Oh. And that Nathan could actually speak about the Cabernet.
• 1:17
  Nathan [00:14:13]: Yeah. Well, what happened was so we hadn't and we'll get to the we hadn't had plans to do a Cabernet Franc, nor a Riesling. And so the story of the Cabernet is that what happened was when we had the Martin vineyard and we were pulling it out, Banished was outweighed H. Macho's insistence that we make a big red. And although our 19, I don't think you classify it as a big red in the long run, they said, well, they sell it reluctantly. And Peter said, well, okay, well, we'll crop this. There's three rows of grapes. So, we'll crop it down to a bunch per shoot.
• 1:18
  Nathan [00:14:52]: And then that way we can get the ripeness out of it. And they put it in barrels and straight actually Garrett and I, the only two here at the time, would watch the barrels, top them up every week or so and we drank it
• 1:19
  Dave [00:15:09]: every time we topped it up.
• 1:20
  Nathan [00:15:10]: And we were and I said, this is pretty good. And it just kept getting better even in barrel, even in the early days. And there was a and I think the intention was to just make it and let it show that it wasn't worth keeping. But, yeah, it really turned out great. And we said, this site and and the binds were not the best taken care of for the previous owner. We were pulling them out. We said, well, if this if this site's capable of doing this on less than quality binds, then we we gotta have a a look at it. And then what happened was so we decided to plan cap fraud.
• 1:21
  Nathan [00:15:46]: But what happened was we didn't have anything ready. And then 2020 hit, which is arguably the year of the century in Niagara. And we really just said we can't be left out, not making Cab Blend. And we had, and again, our winemakers, Peter and Anne, still with us, they have phenomenal connections and they were able to pull wines that from, they were able to call in favors and get some great wines. And the 15% Merlot actually was just a happenstance find where, I mean, a lot of places couldn't grow a bad Merlot that year. Peter came across a vineyard that probably wouldn't have been looked at any other year. So this is the best Merlot I've ever seen. And it was just luck.
• 1:22
  Nathan [00:16:31]: So he jumped on and got it for us. So we had this, we had to make this really, really great, somewhat understated, like they're going for finesse, their wine making, not not something that's just gonna punch you
• 1:23
  Dave [00:16:46]: in the face, which I really appreciate. And even in 2020, what we really like about this wine is the elegance and the finesse with it because there are and we could have taken it in that direction that year to make the bay bold ones, but our direction going forward is gonna be to try and have a bit more of that restraint. So to have in our second vintage, to have something completely different that we're that we're going for the rest of our our vintages or accord would be kinda odd. So we tried to keep this one very, very elegant with some nice perfume on it. This one itself, it's, I believe, 50% new old diet.
• 1:24
  Andrea Morris [00:17:29]: It's got very fruity. I think almost cherry smell initially
• 1:25
  Dave [00:17:36]: for the. And that's part of it too. Right? It's to we want to try keep it from getting into those more jammy, big, bold, super dark, stewed, almost getting into the plum characters and keep it very on brand, I guess, going forward.
• 1:26
  Andrea Morris [00:17:52]: There is that cherry, that that little bit of black cherry Mhmm. But also, like like, I'd I'd say, like, maybe even plum. Mhmm. Just a little bit of that. Like, a bit of
• 1:27
  Nathan [00:18:02]: a baking spice sort of.
• 1:28
  Andrea Morris [00:18:04]: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But it's it's It's a nice black color. The color is beautiful. It's kind of like a a very dark purple, but which I always associate with one of those big chewy
• 1:29
  Nathan [00:18:15]: Mhmm.
• 1:30
  Andrea Morris [00:18:15]: Ballsy wines. But this is a little bit lighter, but it's still very, very flavorful. So you're on point with what you were at, what what you were saying you were ex your your plan was with this wine because it actually does deliver.
• 1:31
  Nathan [00:18:28]: Yeah. I love the I love the I think there's I think it's and, again, a lot of stuff I can talk about because I I'm not the one doing it. So, I really appreciate the restraint they have in the winemaking and it's so easy to go over the tip of scales in one direction or the other. You can hide certain things, right? And even our Chardonnay, one thing I was about to is, you know, you can drink it almost warm. Like, it doesn't hide behind being chilled, which I think is, again, it is another hats off to to what they're doing in the morning.
• 1:32
  Andrea Morris [00:19:01]: I think if you chilled that Chardonnay, it would take away some of the some of the warmth of it. Mhmm. Like, you agree? And I'm not saying temperature wise, but I think the warmth of of the softness. Yep. I think it would make it harsher if you cheer up if you chilled it.
• 1:33
  Nathan [00:19:14]: Yeah. It would be a
• 1:34
  Andrea Morris [00:19:14]: Whereas you could probably actually chill this red and it would taste Oh, absolutely. Taste nice. Mhmm. Which we learned from our our Bio Romano podcast that Italian street wine chill. The red's chilled.
• 1:35
  Nathan [00:19:28]: That always gets my surprise. I
• 1:36
  Andrea Morris [00:19:30]: know. I found it somewhat, like, no. White like, you know, like, wine one zero one that just seems so against what you should do, but it actually tasted really nice. But I suppose because you wouldn't think of it that rum would be that hot, but it is. And so they like their wines chilled, but it was quite inviting. Well, wine wine should be
• 1:37
  Nathan [00:19:50]: an adventure in general, just like cuisine or anything else. There's no I mean, it is subjective. And everyone's and just everyone's trying to do what they think is the very best thing to do with it, and everyone's trying to do within their margins. And, as we we talk about a lot with, you know, our our our wines are pretty definitely reasonably priced for the work that goes into them. But there's a ton of wines in Niagara that they're trying new things and that's really cool. Or there's wines at $20 a bottle that are rate value. I mean, they're not competing with an $80 bottle as far as complexity and balance, but still at $20 a bottle, they've they've worked miracles with it. And and it's it's any of the terroir moving around, like, you know, the the Niagara Lake and get wine from there versus the bench, it's it's probably the fun Niagara to be able to explore what everyone's doing.
• 1:38
  Nathan [00:20:46]: And then there is a big spectrum of of both terroir and, winemakers doing this. I think it's just part of the adventure. Wine should be fun.
• 1:39
  Andrea Morris [00:20:56]: Well, yeah. And if you let's say you start out your meal with an $80 bottle of wine, you don't necessarily wanna serve $80 bottles of wine on. Right? Because after the second bottle, then go to the $20. Bottle.
• 1:40
  Dave [00:21:08]: Yeah. Exactly. You know?
• 1:41
  Andrea Morris [00:21:09]: Like, they they every every wine has its purpose, and and there are some spectacular bottles of $20 wine
• 1:42
  Dave [00:21:15]: in our yard. Oh, absolutely. For sure.
• 1:43
  Nathan [00:21:17]: Yeah. More than enough. And to be honest, it's what gave us confidence to do what we're doing because we looked at Niagara in the last twenty years. Niagara has made leaps and bounds in its quality. And really, what we looked at today, if you can make a bottle of Twine here, dollars 35 tastes as good, what could you do if you put more into the vineyard, into the investment, into the the winemaking? The winemaking's talent. There's some shooting pools that do it. Most of it's talent in the winemaking part. The vineyard is where you really have to put your attention if you want great wine.
• 1:44
  Nathan [00:21:54]: So, and that's where the cost comes in because a bit of culture, it's going back in and making decisions in the moment and whether it's leaf thinning or it's you know, getting in there to do any sort of work that'll that'll help bring the berries around from their current situation.
• 1:45
  Dave [00:22:13]: And using hand labor as well. We try and limit the amount of, tractor use in the vineyard to only what is necessary to try and alleviate storm compaction and everything like that. So we have teams in here from from, I guess, from from pruning, over winter all the way through bud break, and we have them in here multiple times per week just making sure, because we do have denser plantings than most vineyards around here. So with that comes some trickier things in terms of the humidity that we get in Niagara. So keeping the canopy, keeping the, the leaf blocking shoot thinning, and keeping airflow circling throughout the vineyard is, paramount and served for us here. So and the only way to do that with the specifications that that we wanted to have a team go out there and do all that stuff by hand.
• 1:46
  Andrea Morris [00:23:07]: Yeah. We had such a hot summer where it was how did that affect?
• 1:47
  Nathan [00:23:11]: Oh, it's yeah. It was incredibly humid. And that's the other part.
• 1:48
  Andrea Morris [00:23:14]: Yeah. It was very humid.
• 1:49
  Nathan [00:23:15]: There's a balance also on, on keeping beneficials, like you're keeping the grass longer. So you want to keep those beneficial insects, things like that in the vineyard, but then long grass creates humidity. So there's a huge balance and it really is a day by day decision getting out there and looking at the vines, saying, okay, well, this is a step we'll take today to move this forward. Yeah, humidity is huge across the region. It's not just us, but being closer planted. I mean, we wanted to go meter by meter, but it was, again, thanks to the close knit community of other vineyards that, you know, tried it that said, don't. Like, don't do it. So we went we went six by it was six across and six by three.
• 1:50
  Nathan [00:23:58]: Yeah.
• 1:51
  Andrea Morris [00:23:59]: It's it's nice how this community actually does come together, and everybody does help each other. For sure. Yeah. I suppose owning your own winery too doesn't give you a lot of chance to go around and visit a lot of different wineries.
• 1:52
  Nathan [00:24:10]: As much as you'd like to. We did Dave and I went out last spring and did our diplomatic tour, which is it's great. It's the most fun part of our job. And we all since then, we said, we'll go next week. We'll go next week. And we haven't been able to get back to it. But it is the best thing. I love to see what other people are doing.
• 1:53
  Nathan [00:24:27]: And there is no real secrets. Everyone's pretty open about what they're doing, even their even on their business models. So it's great to hear what they're doing, what their plans are. So I mean, if if even us doing them, doing our own pre our own version of a premium wine, and our prices are actually pretty reasonable. It's that we don't have any lower tiers. So everyone's got a bottle in their shop at $80. It's just that we don't have a bottle under that. But, you know, anyone that's you know, and they you know, you got the old two sister Geramo or something like that too.
• 1:54
  Nathan [00:25:01]: Anybody that's elevating the price of Niagara wine is is is definitely a trend of the community because, you know, it's it's those $20 bottles probably aren't worth $30. And those $30 bottles probably should be sold for 40, realistically of their quality. So anyone that can elevate it and help out anyone else is one's always pretty positive about it.
• 1:55
  Andrea Morris [00:25:23]: And it's also great. I find for myself, I love supporting local. Like, I'd love going to all wineries around here and and helping my community grow. And I think it's an I think that's a really important thing
• 1:56
  Dave [00:25:35]: that we all need to do. We've actually heard a lot of that too from, the packing takes things that make another I've been doing, throughout the summer. And, the the feedback and the spots you get from from Toronto all the way down to absolutely, like, really local people in in Niagara, they're they're really happy to come in and support us for sure.
• 1:57
  Nathan [00:25:55]: Yeah. And it's I mean, if you look at the any wine region in the world, we're probably the only wine region that predominantly because I don't wanna there's a lot of people that do it, so I don't wanna not there's there's a lot of supporters. But, ounce for ounce, you know, we're we're we're lagging far behind other regions in the world that only drink their regions. And it's growing here, it really, really truly is. And in the five years you've been in an ad, it's extremely noticeable. But it's something you should, it's where you're from, where you're drinking, you're drinking your culture, your hair, whatever it is, but you're drinking where you're from. I mean, you're eating tomatoes from Ontario. You're eating apples from Ontario.
• 1:58
  Nathan [00:26:41]: Peaches. Peaches, right? Canadian raw beef, whatever it is. And it's a part of who you are. And it's just probably scientific, some sort of logical, some scientific evidence somewhere that backs it up, but it is important. And it's your terroir, it's what you're used to. Because you go to other places, you try it. We did a tasting with a great guy through Peller. He invited us to visit some Hungarian wines.
• 1:59
  Nathan [00:27:10]: And, one, they were fantastic. But the one thing I really noticed was how different they were and that I bet you they and I don't don't wanna say it tasted funny. They didn't. But I'm sure they they're they would always say like, okay. You know, it tastes funny. You know? Because then it would be what they're used to. And you drink it all the time and you'd just be so used to that. So I think that's a it's a good thing to be part of your your region and and embracing it.
• 2:00
  Nathan [00:27:36]: And it's such a great it's I don't think people realize how lucky they have a world class wine region in their backyard.
• 2:01
  Andrea Morris [00:27:42]: I think they started to when there was an LCBO strike. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:02
  Nathan [00:27:47]: That's been hope it helped too. I was
• 2:03
  Dave [00:27:48]: gonna say, yeah, the pandemic definitely out what everyone was kinda limited to coming down here during the summer and everything. A lot of, people from Triville, Mississauga, Oakville were almost forced to come down to Niagara. And then, actually, when they started tranqing it, they were, oh, wow. Like because there might there might have been preconceived notions from decades ago when the wine quality wasn't what it is today. And, to be able to reintroduce them to to what we're doing in Niagara, it definitely was a silver lining to to the pandemic for sure.
• 2:04
  Andrea Morris [00:28:22]: Well, it takes time, I think, for any region just to grow and and, you know, and to develop their reputation. Mhmm. I I first started coming up here in the late nineties, and there were hardly any wineries. Mhmm. And I remember coming with my father and, and, like, maybe doing, like, you know, 10 wineries, you know, over a weekend and being like, okay. We're almost tapped out. And now it's like there's hun there's, like, like, a hundred what is that? A 20 or something like that?
• 2:05
  Dave [00:28:49]: I think there's even more
• 2:06
  Nathan [00:28:50]: than that.
• 2:07
  Andrea Morris [00:28:50]: Yeah. It's more than that in the region that that are opening. And I think it's I think it's great that that the culture has that's actually supported that much because, obviously, people are buying Ontario wines.
• 2:08
  Nathan [00:29:01]: Yep.
• 2:09
  Andrea Morris [00:29:02]: And the stigma against them is actually starting to go away.
• 2:10
  Nathan [00:29:06]: Oh, for sure it has. And I mean and there's you could I mean, you could give a lot of it's funny because I I talk to a lot of people about this a pretty common subject and there's people that are very bitter about it. And but I mean, you gotta look at the positives and look at there's it takes some it takes some balls to go against you know, commonly held beliefs. So when you take, you know, the Psalms that are in Toronto that are embracing it, that aren't just looking back through their w set notes or whatever they're doing to you know? And the ones are like, no. I'm I'm confident enough in what I like that I'll champion a Canadian wine. And they grow daily. We grow restaurants in Toronto, they do phenomenal with us and it's a huge part their open mindset. And there are a lot of salons in Toronto that embrace it and every day it grows.
• 2:11
  Nathan [00:29:58]: But to be fair, those salons are also, they might believe in Canadian wine and that their clients might not. So they have to go buy people over at the restaurants too with buying their clients. So but I I find bit by bit, it is well, like, bit by bit, I say it's bottlenecks. The five years we've been involved, that that's that only exploded.
• 2:12
  Andrea Morris [00:30:18]: I think that's great. I think it's great for the region. And and I I noticed the same thing happening in Quebec as well. I Phenomenal. I've been up in, you know, the Quebec reds are are very baby like, very, very young, and they'll they'll develop over time. But, boy, they do some great white they great whites up there and some really fantastic bubbly. Mhmm. Oh, for sure.
• 2:13
  Nathan [00:30:39]: Yeah. They've gone to Montreal, November actually. I'm gonna go. So
• 2:14
  Andrea Morris [00:30:45]: Go to the Eastern Townships. Yeah. Yeah. Like around Loch Rome. Okay. The wineries there are really there's there's one winery up there that I actually found an incredible red.
• 2:15
  Nathan [00:30:56]: Beautiful. Yeah.
• 2:16
  Andrea Morris [00:30:57]: In the Eastern Townships, absolutely fantastic. Yeah. And it's fun. I love it. It's fun to explore because I'm originally from The States. I'm from I'm from Ohio. When I go back home and and go to some of the wineries there again, some of the wines there are very sweet. Like, they're they do a lot of really sweet their reds can be, like, incredibly sweet.
• 2:17
  Andrea Morris [00:31:19]: But Yeah. It's the same thing with the in growing up in The States. Like, Napa Valley was the there was a big resistance to American wines initially. Yeah. You know? Like like, as especially Europeans were like, American wine. Yeah. Now Until Steven Spurrier.
• 2:18
  Nathan [00:31:35]: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Andrea Morris [00:31:38]: Yeah. But and then sideways came the movie, and then it destroyed Merlot.
• 2:20
  Dave [00:31:42]: I would say that that's one of the coolest, case studies that you could find out just where the oil sales just can't.
• 2:21
  Andrea Morris [00:31:48]: Yeah. Just from that movie. Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that every we always we constantly reference because, you know, I would say I was actually guilty of that. I'm going like, oh, I don't like Rolo. And then I started drinking your little again. I'm like, what was my issue? Like, I let a movie influence me.
• 2:22
  Andrea Morris [00:32:01]: I don't know why. It's
• 2:23
  Nathan [00:32:03]: just funny because he loved Merlot. He hated his wife.
• 2:24
  Andrea Morris [00:32:10]: Yeah. But, you know, the Merlot and your red blend is it's a really nice blend of the of Merlot and the Cab, and I think it's, very drinkable, and it makes me want a burger
• 2:25
  Nathan [00:32:19]: Oh, yeah.
• 2:26
  Andrea Morris [00:32:20]: Or a steak, you know, because it's like that would be the perfect accompaniment for this.
• 2:27
  Dave [00:32:23]: Yeah. Great great barbecue.
• 2:28
  Nathan [00:32:25]: Yeah. That well, I just like what you said in your intro. I think that that's the stigma of wine is that that you have to be, like, you just mentioned a burger and the stigma of wine, and you have to be over the moon, fussy about it in every way. And I mean, I think it's anything if it's a quality product, you can enjoy it however you wanna enjoy it. You don't have to know exact and pairings are, I mean, I think more, pairings are a little, they have their place for sure. And I mean, some stuff is phenomenal when you pair it, you'll know it when you do it. And if you have a knowledge of, if you have a culinary knowledge, you can definitely put some stuff together that's gonna rate with the wine. But there's no textbook to it.
• 2:29
  Nathan [00:33:10]: Because every wine's a little different. Like, you get inside their varietals too.
• 2:30
  Andrea Morris [00:33:13]: And everybody's style is different
• 2:31
  Dave [00:33:15]: as well. Exactly. Right?
• 2:32
  Andrea Morris [00:33:16]: So, you know, what I think might taste fantastic, you could be like, ugh. Then we've had that conversation, Lucas and I, my producer, about certain things that we both hate over that we like and then think yeah.
• 2:33
  Nathan [00:33:27]: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:34
  Andrea Morris [00:33:28]: And it's when we for a listener, when you do come here and do a wine tasting, you do a food pairing with it as well.
• 2:35
  Nathan [00:33:33]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we believe in it. Yeah. No doubt. You know? Mhmm. But it it is yeah.
• 2:36
  Nathan [00:33:39]: I I do find that the the idea well, I think that the my point is that I think people get intimidated as far as even spending more money on wine because they say, Well, do you know something good when you see it? You don't have to be an expert in it to know something good when you see it. And there is you have to develop a palate to some degree. Like, when you're a kid, you like craft dinner, and then eventually, your palate gets better. But you don't have to be an expert for your palate to get better.
• 2:37
  Andrea Morris [00:34:11]: But sometimes you still go back to that craft dinner because it's comfort it's comfort food. Yeah.
• 2:38
  Nathan [00:34:15]: Yeah.
• 2:39
  Andrea Morris [00:34:15]: It's like, I remember yeah. It brings back memories of being a kid, and you're like, yeah. I love cracked dinner.
• 2:40
  Nathan [00:34:19]: I have
• 2:41
  Andrea Morris [00:34:19]: to go put a bottle of wine and have cracked dinner while I get out. It's like, you can do that. Fine. Yeah.
• 2:42
  Nathan [00:34:24]: Yeah. I still own any of them, but, like, I there's still wines I go back to that were the the wines that were my gateway wines that I thought were great. And then as I either got a little bit more my pot, a little more refined, I didn't find them enjoyable. But I'll still go back for them once in a while for nostalgic sake. And they always have their place. They're crowd pleasers and they're fun to drink. And like we said, we can't beat opening up 80 I mean, my expensive ball range is like $80 to $150 with my drink $20,000 bottles a lot. No.
• 2:43
  Nathan [00:34:58]: But, but still, you can't you can't open those up all day, and
• 2:44
  Dave [00:35:00]: you should. There's too much of
• 2:45
  Nathan [00:35:02]: a good thing. It is there's there's something to be said about it.
• 2:46
  Andrea Morris [00:35:04]: There's something for that spectacular thing when you, like, you know, you have somebody over for dinner, and you're just like, I I made this great meal, and I want to serve this really great bottle of wine that I know is gonna compliment it. Yep. And it's gonna make the food taste better, and it's just gonna, like, knock your socks off. Yeah. I had that I had an artist that recently came and, to go on a a radio tour with me, and I was like, okay. I'm gonna make dinner because I I grow stuff in my garden. I'm like, I grow the I grow these peppers. I have to make stuffed peppers, so we're doing this.
• 2:47
  Andrea Morris [00:35:35]: And I pulled out a bottle of one of the reserves from cassava. Oh, man. And he almost lost his mind. He was like he goes, oh, well, you know what? I have a problem with tannins. And I said, okay. Well, then I'm gonna drink the wine, but you can just have a little glass and just try it. And he was like, oh my sweetheart. And then we proceeded to drink the entire bottle together because he and then I had to had to take him there so he could buy something to send back home to Quebec.
• 2:48
  Andrea Morris [00:36:01]: That's all. Thanks. It's like but that makes me so happy when I've actually shown someone how fabulous the wines are here, and they embrace it as well and go like, oh my god. This is an amazing bottle of wine. And then it opens them up to wanting to go into more wineries and see, like, what else do you have in this region that I need to see?
• 2:49
  Nathan [00:36:20]: That's the fun of it. Yeah. And getting recommendations saying, what do you like? What do you drink? What you know? And you're right, though. There there is it is a great feeling when and I actually get more pleasure out of somebody that that isn't I mean, there's a great feeling in in someone that's renowned in what they they do, like a writer that gets wine that that validates your wine. That's an incredible feeling. And they say, yes. It is. As good as you're saying it is, that's a great feeling.
• 2:50
  Nathan [00:36:48]: But, one of the greatest feelings I also is where someone who doesn't know wines and they're, almost self deprecating in that they they they don't feel like they would know the difference. And and you get to show them the wine that they they They really do get one. Will they try it? They go, I get it. And it's equality brings them over with, oh, no, no. This is very obviously of equality, and that's really nice to see. And like you said, you're opening their because you're opening their world up. Those people will go on and start looking at wines differently. I mean, they might look at price tags and take a step back every once in a while because it is if you're spending $80 90 dollars 90 dollars a bottle of wine, if you're not used to doing that, you know, you but you will do it once in a while, and then you'll get used to it.
• 2:51
  Nathan [00:37:39]: And then you'll go, oh, it's worth it.
• 2:52
  Andrea Morris [00:37:40]: Like, oh, it was only an $80 bottle. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. You know? Like, oh, yeah. But, no, I also had a I had a client from Australia as well. And he and his manager came out and they were blown away by the quality of Ontario wines because they were like, you know, Australian snobby about how we've got this wines in the world, mate. You know? And it's Yeah.
• 2:53
  Andrea Morris [00:37:59]: Yeah.
• 2:54
  Nathan [00:38:00]: They're trying to like, no.
• 2:55
  Andrea Morris [00:38:04]: Your wine's so better. But those that's, like, that's where I find my joy and, like, the in introducing people that are kinda, like, chatteled out and then all of a sudden they become they become believers. Yeah, that's a fun thing about I foresee
• 2:56
  Nathan [00:38:20]: every year. It's kind of the meter is why they go in every year, you see the international show up and they're up and God bless them. They always are very flattering
• 2:57
  Dave [00:38:32]: to us.
• 2:58
  Nathan [00:38:34]: Just at the state every day, they're like, Wow, it is doing great. The Niagara Region, it's Chardonnay based, but it's Well, they went to the Finger Lakes last year and
• 2:59
  Dave [00:38:44]: I saw
• 3:00
  Nathan [00:38:44]: it, yeah. Yeah, we showed really well there, and they were phenomenally nice to us about it. That's I mean, all over that wine region seem to be pretty pretty open minded and acknowledge where great wine the potential is in great wine all over the world. We certainly do. We model, we can't help but look at brands in Germany. We do that for hundreds of years. It'd be
• 3:01
  Dave [00:39:08]: crazy not
• 3:02
  Nathan [00:39:09]: to look at what they've done. But California is another great model that you might not follow their their styles, but their their tenacity for sure. And and sticking it out and making a wide reaching out of a bottle, it's a joke. Yeah.
• 3:03
  Dave [00:39:23]: Yeah. Only in this in the greats, you would think, since such a short period of time, it's only been about fifty years that California's been on the map. And become like Yeah.
• 3:04
  Andrea Morris [00:39:33]: Like one of the destination places and also like known for quality water. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 3:05
  Nathan [00:39:38]: Yep. And they did it. The one thing you really have to admire about California, and it's it is kind of the trap of Niagara, maybe Canadians in general. But it's they they weren't they never tried to be anything else than what they were. So and then it's a good that's a thing you have to remember. It's you're you're making that Canadian wine, and you're making it in your Appalachian. And you're gonna take some other places because you're you're you're crazy not to to learn from everyone, but you're not you're not France. You're not Germany.
• 3:06
  Nathan [00:40:11]: You're Canada. And, and you you And you're great.
• 3:07
  Andrea Morris [00:40:19]: Well, now let's move on to the Riesling.
• 3:08
  Nathan [00:40:22]: Yes. This is.
• 3:09
  Andrea Morris [00:40:24]: Now you have two different kinds of Riesling. Right? We do. Two different years.
• 3:10
  Dave [00:40:29]: Nope. We have, two different two different styles of, Riesling from the 2019, vintage year. And, maybe Nathan can just briefly walk you through how we got to making Riesling, and then I can talk about the the winemaking specifically. Well, Niagara has
• 3:11
  Nathan [00:40:46]: a great capacity for making Riesel, probably why they grow so much of it. But we we didn't wanna make a Riesel. It was Peter that said, well, to go back and do it quickly, we took on this project. We learned a lot about the potential through Peter Gamble and Sperling. And, they're they're consultants. They wanted to remain consultants. They're kinda winding down into retirement. But they fell in love with the project and decided to actually come on to do this with us.
• 3:12
  Nathan [00:41:20]: And the one thing Peter, I won't say if I do, is ask, but he said, If we're going to do something where we get carte blanche to pick the wines, to do the spacing, to run the viticulture, do it organically, have for winemaking, If I can make a Riesling the way I've always wanted to make a Riesling, I'd really appreciate it. And that meant planting it. And then multiple picks, micro fermentations, a pretty labor intensive wine, and he didn't really understand what he was talking about, to be honest. And he brought us some bottles, about 405 bottles of wine from from Austria and Germany and said, this is what I wanna make. It's pretty good. And like, and you can make this at, you know He said, oh, yeah. He said, I'm sure I can. So it was so he convinced us really, and and and it is probably the reason we have two, and we didn't restrain him a little.
• 3:13
  Nathan [00:42:24]: We probably have six. But, it's it's it's an incredible process of of going through the vineyard. And, I mean, He'll tell you pick up berry by berry. It's not quite bad. But you but you almost do. Because you go on, you get an acidic pick and then you're I mean, they're they're unripe grapes and you're putting it aside and then you're gonna go through and you're gonna look at some botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry botry bot and you'll pick those. And then you'll find some of the certain ripeness you want, you'll pick those and you'll go through and get another ripeness you want and then you'll pick more botrytis grapes. And we have a 90 liter press, just, like, certainly only commercial winery that houses it.
• 3:14
  Andrea Morris [00:43:06]: Yes. I
• 3:15
  Nathan [00:43:07]: think it's only in, like, a town in grandfather's basement somewhere else. So I and and then everything's microframented. So, basically, when you get the lending process, you've got everything you need to make exactly what you want. And that's where he he got Raymond because he's like, I can make 10 out of this.
• 3:16
  Dave [00:43:25]: No. Not space for all of these. He can be fermenters. Yeah. A %. Yeah. I mean,
• 3:17
  Nathan [00:43:29]: they'd be they'd be on the roof. But he was vindicated in that it's the, we stand behind all of our wines were, probably all but the Riesling that we can say it's gotta be the best of Canada. It's unruly. I mean, there's some other people that make their own one. Best of candidates probably should say someone won't. Richter, or we go tomorrow. But the but the no. But I'm saying that, you know, and then just being proud of what Peter's done.
• 3:18
  Nathan [00:44:00]: And it was and again, it was, you know, restaurants in Canada said, we can't even sell ritzel. Germany, we can't take it. And they taste it, and they'd say, we really love it, but we'll have to take something else. And the next day, we get a false positive. Now we'll put Riesling at that price too. For Riesling, it's pretty expensive. And then we had great restaurants like Hexagon or Oakville, the Besant Bar, can't say nice things about that put it on a tasting menu, got its customers hooked on it, and then started surveying on the menu and get get a steady flow of clients from that. And, they get it.
• 3:19
  Nathan [00:44:39]: People will say, I hate Riesling. And then they drink it and go, you know what? Parents don't like Riesling. So
• 3:20
  Dave [00:44:44]: that's go back to the preconceived notions that we were talking about Yeah. Beforehand. Right? Yeah. Of Yeah. Of the whether it was very sweet Canadian Rieslings that were made before or the stuff that did come over from Germany was at a lower quality And very dry. And either, yeah, very dry or overly cloyed when sweet. So being able to show people what what we're able to do with the attention to detail that Peter has has set out and like Aiden said, going through doing all of these multiple picks, doing it all by hand, hand sorting all of them, and giving it the attention that, we give to Pinot L'Ars and Chardonnays and Calf Frogs in the blending process as opposed to just going out with a machine harvester, fermenting it all at once, throw in some yeast in, and and just say, okay, we're done with that. It's a nice easy thing to make.
• 3:21
  Dave [00:45:47]: It's actually one of our most time consuming wines that we do make here because
• 3:22
  Andrea Morris [00:45:52]: of Or mayo raiseling. Exactly.
• 3:23
  Dave [00:45:54]: Yeah. And like Nathan said, we're we're super proud of
• 3:24
  Nathan [00:45:58]: it. Well, the thing and that's that was the it's you know, to build on that, it's if if people aren't willing if people weren't willing to pay 20 more than $20, like, $15 a bottle of of Riesling, how are you gonna make a a quality I mean, and there's lots of, like, great reasons in that price point. That's, I wasn't throwing stones. The the How are you gonna do that at $15 a bottle or $20 a bottle? So a lot of the wineries, I think, are capped by some of those prices, and they have the means, the talent to do it. And there's Cave Springs where you're talking to us there. That's our nemesis. No, I mean, we're all honest. So last time I was like Cave Springs, I said, well, you're the guys we're trying to be.
• 3:25
  Nathan [00:46:46]: They have
• 3:26
  Dave [00:46:47]: their history, right?
• 3:27
  Nathan [00:46:48]: They're they're the big
• 3:28
  Dave [00:46:49]: dog on top
• 3:29
  Nathan [00:46:50]: and they they make a
• 3:30
  Andrea Morris [00:46:51]: They make a flower wazeland. Yeah.
• 3:31
  Dave [00:46:53]: Phenomenal wazeland while they're there.
• 3:32
  Nathan [00:46:55]: Oh yeah they are the you know.
• 3:33
  Andrea Morris [00:46:57]: But yours right away has a very different nose to it. Like theirs, I could smell citrus right away. Mhmm. Yours, it's like it almost feels like it's tropical.
• 3:34
  Dave [00:47:07]: There's definitely some tropical notes in there too. There's a lot of, characters that we do get from the detritus back to grapes, and that's something that we, definitely don't shy away from. And, as It is very tropical. It's like I can it's almost like coconut pineapple.
• 3:35
  Andrea Morris [00:47:26]: I that's what I'm tasting on my palate, but, also, it's, again, very
• 3:36
  Dave [00:47:30]: soft. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. There's Very a honeyed
• 3:37
  Andrea Morris [00:47:34]: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Dave [00:47:34]: There, maybe some, some apricot candied apricot or something along those lines in in there.
• 3:39
  Andrea Morris [00:47:39]: Because when you get the ones that have more of a citrus edge, I find them sharper on the tongue.
• 3:40
  Dave [00:47:43]: Mhmm. But
• 3:41
  Andrea Morris [00:47:43]: this one is more like
• 3:42
  Dave [00:47:45]: Oh, it definitely there's definitely some more weight and body to it.
• 3:43
  Andrea Morris [00:47:48]: It's like a Caribbean. You know, like, the it really has that kind of Mhmm. Something very tropical about it.
• 3:44
  Nathan [00:47:56]: Yeah. I I mean no. I I get what you say. It actually does have kind of a it's it's interesting that coconuts are pretty interesting. But now you say it, I kinda feel a little bit of it in there.
• 3:45
  Andrea Morris [00:48:07]: Yeah. It's just kind of, like, relief hint, but I also love coconut.
• 3:46
  Nathan [00:48:11]: So Mhmm. Pina colada. Yeah. That'll be a tagline. Do you like pina coladas?
• 3:47
  Andrea Morris [00:48:16]: Yeah. Then how how the street's like?
• 3:48
  Nathan [00:48:20]: I'd get fired.
• 3:49
  Andrea Morris [00:48:23]: No. It's just, it's really unique. There's not I haven't had a Riesling in the area that tastes like
• 3:50
  Nathan [00:48:28]: this. Yeah. And I think that's it. That was my point. And and that that's that lofty statement the best in Canada. But the, but I meant that more as as as I won't be able to say that, because I'm so proud of what they've done. But the, no, but it is, I guess, incomparable might be the better word for it. Because there is something about this reasoning.
• 3:51
  Nathan [00:48:50]: And again, it can warm right up and you can enjoy warm levels, to be honest. It doesn't it just gets I
• 3:52
  Dave [00:49:00]: think he's just trying to say that we don't need to hide behind chilling the whites of everything.
• 3:53
  Nathan [00:49:06]: Well, I
• 3:54
  Andrea Morris [00:49:06]: don't think I would wanna have this too chilled because it's, like, it's literally perfect the way it is. I think if you chilled it too much, it would lose some of that tropicalness about it and it then becomes
• 3:55
  Dave [00:49:16]: They're aromatics. Yeah.
• 3:56
  Andrea Morris [00:49:17]: For sure.
• 3:57
  Nathan [00:49:18]: They're aromatics are no loose. I'm always blown away by that the and I mean, now I'm like a proud pair. I've had my kids the one in school. Going to school doing all the work.
• 3:58
  Andrea Morris [00:49:29]: World's best Riesling daddy. That's in facing many of these. Yes. There's a new shirt. But no it's like it's it's really really good. And what year is this 2039. '19?
• 3:59
  Dave [00:49:45]: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Andrea Morris [00:49:47]: It's yeah. Well done, gentlemen.
• 4:01
  Nathan [00:49:49]: Yeah. These have been fun to watch, bro. And that's, like, for me, you know, I got to see it when it went in the barrel. I got to see it when it got bottled, and got to watch it grow. And And it's it's to be honest, it's it was the one out of the the the three bridles that worked right away. Like, it's never had to it never had to really grow a bottle. I mean, it got better for sure, but the Chardonnay and the Cab blend were definitely tight and bottle needed time to age and bottle before. They were obvious, but the Rieslings, I don't think they ever missed a step to be honest, which is pretty impressive to make because there's a lot of great wineries worldwide that make great ageable wines, but you got to get them to a certain point.
• 4:02
  Nathan [00:50:38]: And that point can be ten years off from bottling before they really work. So I think Peter and Anne's real talent is getting an ageable wine that's drinkable fairly early into its its bottling.
• 4:03
  Andrea Morris [00:50:52]: I can't imagine what that would be like in five years because
• 4:04
  Nathan [00:50:55]: it's Oh, yeah.
• 4:05
  Andrea Morris [00:50:56]: Really great now.
• 4:06
  Dave [00:50:58]: Oh, yeah. These these three things are gonna hold up for
• 4:07
  Andrea Morris [00:51:00]: I'll never know I would never know unless I came back in five years and you happen to have some of the seller. I could say, can I try that? Well, Nathan and
• 4:08
  Dave [00:51:07]: I were actually talking about that. So right before you came, we're like, we gotta make sure we keep enough of this so we could just keep open them up every year
• 4:09
  Andrea Morris [00:51:14]: Moving.
• 4:10
  Dave [00:51:14]: And then see the development five, ten, fifteen years down the road. Right? Yeah.
• 4:11
  Andrea Morris [00:51:18]: Well, that's what we were we were just talking about that with the land at Cave Springs about how about how wines actually evolve. It's not like they're aging, they're evolving in the wild and and and getting to a point of where they need to be. Well, that's a
• 4:12
  Nathan [00:51:32]: cool thing, and it's almost a sales pitch. But it's that, you know, if you're buying a case of wine and you have a seller, you're not buying 12 of the same bottle of wine. If you're going to open one up every six months or every year, you're really getting 12 different bottles of wine. And that's part of the fun if you can do that and have a seller, is that that's the and that's why I was just kind of speaking with it. The fun part is watching a a wine actually evolve is really, really cool. And it's that's the thing when I have friends that don't aren't particularly into wine but understand quality, like whether it's food or whatever it is, when even just from opening up just from pouring a glass and letting it aerate a bit, the difference in wine. It's one of the coolest things about wine that how much it'll change, how much it'll open up in the course of even an hour being opened is really the interesting thing about wine. And, yeah, I enjoy it.
• 4:13
  Nathan [00:52:33]: Sometimes I'm disappointed because I've only got smallest part of my glass left all the time. I you guys to where it's really, really good.
• 4:14
  Andrea Morris [00:52:42]: It's like, Lisa, can I have some more? No. It's done. Yeah. So this the next Riesling Yep. Is actually the same year as well?
• 4:15
  Dave [00:52:49]: Same year. Absolutely. This one here, just to give you the the brief background on it, we have the two Rieslings in 2019. One's called dry Riesling, one's called Riesling. And with the one that's just called Riesling, it's not quite an off dry.
• 4:16
  Andrea Morris [00:53:06]: This did not taste dry. The dry Riesling.
• 4:17
  Dave [00:53:08]: Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:18
  Andrea Morris [00:53:09]: Dry Riesling. Eight and
• 4:19
  Dave [00:53:10]: a half grams per liter RS.
• 4:20
  Nathan [00:53:12]: Isn't that crazy, though? Yeah. It's I mean, there's
• 4:21
  Dave [00:53:14]: a lot of yeah. There's a lot of weight, like you said, that comes from the botrytis Mhmm. And everything like that, right, that lends to that mouth feel. So it's not that steely, if you're over the head.
• 4:22
  Andrea Morris [00:53:24]: No. It's like for a, quote, unquote, dry riesling, it's very like I said, it's very tropical to me, and I would expect the dry riesling to be very, like, maybe almost tasteless.
• 4:23
  Nathan [00:53:35]: Mhmm. No. I I think that's the conception. It certainly was mine. And like I said, even Waits. Waits spent a lot of really great wines. I mean, Riesling at one time was the premier wine in the world. It was the most expensive wine.
• 4:24
  Nathan [00:53:48]: It was the most sought after. And, there was a reason for it. It's it's it's got incredible potential. And if you do it right, you can really wall people with it for sure.
• 4:25
  Andrea Morris [00:54:00]: No. This one has a completely different rose. Mhmm. It doesn't smell tropical at all. It smells like more citrusy.
• 4:26
  Dave [00:54:07]: Funny. Oh, but this one yeah. This this is a really cool Riesling. And Nathan and I go back and forth all the time. Which one? We're,
• 4:27
  Andrea Morris [00:54:15]: Oh, that is really good.
• 4:28
  Dave [00:54:17]: This this is probably my my favorite of the two at this point in time.
• 4:29
  Andrea Morris [00:54:21]: This one I got I got buttery thing.
• 4:30
  Dave [00:54:24]: With this one, there's Yeah. Like, yeah. There I think there was some partial Like,
• 4:31
  Andrea Morris [00:54:27]: go on.
• 4:32
  Dave [00:54:27]: That one. Like, a buttery popcorn kind
• 4:33
  Andrea Morris [00:54:30]: of and I know that sounds weird for wine.
• 4:34
  Dave [00:54:32]: No. I I completely get it as
• 4:35
  Nathan [00:54:33]: well. Yeah.
• 4:36
  Andrea Morris [00:54:34]: Yeah. Do you get that, Lucas?
• 4:37
  Nathan [00:54:37]: Yeah. Moon. Yeah. And going back to evolution, like, they would just say them. These wines are almost in a in a race, like, in that they they changed so much that we constantly say, like, if you actually were back two months ago, you would have said that this one this one would taste way more off drive than this one.
• 4:38
  Andrea Morris [00:55:00]: I think I remember that from when I first came here in the summer and had a tasting that I preferred that the the the the regular reasoning over the dry. But now I'm like, I like the dry better. It's weird. But I'm but now that I'm tasting this one again, I'm like, wait a minute. That's why we bought both bottles. He said, because it was real. It's it's got that I've got it's a little bit I get a little bit of citrus on the back Mhmm. Down the second sip.
• 4:39
  Andrea Morris [00:55:28]: But on the only on the far back of my tongue. But, like, initially, that butter taste just really hit me.
• 4:40
  Nathan [00:55:35]: Mhmm.
• 4:41
  Andrea Morris [00:55:36]: This is so much fun because it's such a comp again, very complex.
• 4:42
  Dave [00:55:40]: Very, yeah, very complex. And the cool thing about it is the the longer you enjoy it, even if it's over fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes, you're gonna get a So much different Well, if you have a whole bottle.
• 4:43
  Andrea Morris [00:55:52]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:44
  Dave [00:55:55]: No. That you'll see all the different, components of it kinda come out and express themselves at different points through a road and joy.
• 4:45
  Andrea Morris [00:56:02]: Which is why wine is so much fun. Yeah. Because it's not just like, oh, you have a beer and you taste beer.
• 4:46
  Nathan [00:56:07]: Like And it gets worse
• 4:47
  Dave [00:56:09]: every second. Yeah.
• 4:48
  Andrea Morris [00:56:10]: Yeah. And then you feel, like, super bloated. You never really feel bloated with wine.
• 4:49
  Dave [00:56:14]: No. You don't go, like,
• 4:50
  Andrea Morris [00:56:15]: oh, god. I can't have another one. Or, like, not have you know, it's like, no. You can keep drinking wine.
• 4:51
  Nathan [00:56:19]: It's like great advertisement for our for people. Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:52
  Andrea Morris [00:56:23]: Yeah. Buy more. Buy more. Don't get you won't get bloated. You'll never get bloated from wine. Yeah. But no. And and every sip becomes, like, something different.
• 4:53
  Andrea Morris [00:56:33]: And that's what I'm finding with your wines in particular that they're it's like from from sip one to sip three, it's completely different and really something unique and and really inviting.
• 4:54
  Nathan [00:56:46]: Yeah. I honestly couldn't agree more. We're all we You have an excellent winemaker. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that they yeah. I know. Their their ability, and Dave's part of it now too, to get to to do that.
• 4:55
  Nathan [00:56:59]: It blows my mind because, I mean, I was lucky enough to drink good wines growing up. So, I mean, I know the difference between good wine. I mean, I know quality anything. I'm lucky enough to eat great cuisine, lucky enough to, you know, the
• 4:56
  Andrea Morris [00:57:21]: The process is really fascinating.
• 4:57
  Nathan [00:57:23]: Yeah. And I mean, it's it's well, the thing that makes it really, really interesting is it's the forecast. It's it's the I'll do this and this now so that when it and even at the blank stage, so, you know, I mean, this is what you do in the vineyard to get it to to to the to the tanks and then into barrel. But for even forgetting all that, at the blending stage, you're forecasting two years minimum for us of bottle aging. And what every component you're putting in is what you want that to do. So you want the oak to fall off. You want the acidity to hang on. You want all these things to happen, and you're forecasting that all that will happen in a bottle over the next two to three years.
• 4:58
  Nathan [00:58:09]: And then that's just when you you're gonna release it the next ten, fifteen years of bottle aging and that where and then you can predict like, when you see on our notes like this, you should've aged between, you know, x amount of years until it's stayed. You're predicting all these things are these decisions you made at blending are gonna get you, to here in fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty years.
• 4:59
  Andrea Morris [00:58:30]: But then you don't know what kind of what the wine wants to do because the wine could go like, you know what? You think it's gonna have to do that, but I'm gonna take a I'm gonna take a create a sharp left turn, and it's gonna taste completely different than what you think it's going to.
• 5:00
  Dave [00:58:39]: Oh, for sure. Yeah. It's always a gamble. Right? Fine.
• 5:01
  Nathan [00:58:43]: But it's that and that's that's the point, though, is these guys can do that. Like, they got, like, I couldn't do it. And I I'll never have to. The but the they they like, everything and that was the thing. When we started out, so you you could buy, pull out land, you start a vineyard, you sink money into the vineyard, you do all these things. And you're doing it to some some guys tell you that it's gonna all work out. And, you don't find so then you grow grapes and then you you put them in a in a barrel and then you put them in a bottle. So you're out for four years before you even taste your wine and really know if it's gonna work.
• 5:02
  Nathan [00:59:17]: So for us, the day we were able to taste them, you know, all the bottle after two years, I said, Oh, God. Thank God they don't.
• 5:03
  Andrea Morris [00:59:29]: They think they don't suck. Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:04
  Nathan [00:59:31]: God they don't suck is really the thing we said. Yeah. So I mean and and every year since this, since 2019, they've got, you know, they've been involved for about three years now. They're they're doing it. They're doing exactly what they said they would do. You know, everything they said they would do, they're doing they're aging beautifully. They're they're doing great, and they're balanced. There's nothing that sticks out in them.
• 5:05
  Nathan [00:59:59]: They're all
• 5:06
  Andrea Morris [01:00:00]: I like to look at the tasting notes after I've tasted it and then go like, oh, that's interesting because that's not anything that what I thought. Yeah. I mean, it's different. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But I find I think sometimes if you look at a tasting note, then that prejudices you for what you think you're on the table. Percent, of course.
• 5:07
  Nathan [01:00:15]: I agree. Yeah. %. And I think I think they're great guidelines. I think it's an interesting window into what the winemaker see. So these are the these are the new ways they're wrong. I should write these notes. So it's interesting window into their tasting.
• 5:08
  Nathan [01:00:30]: So but I I and I think if you're novice, they're great. You'll be able to find these things if you look for them. But like I said, wine's subjective. And if you wanna have this reasoning chicken wings, go ahead.
• 5:09
  Andrea Morris [01:00:43]: But also, like, when you wrote these tasting notes and now it's like the wine's been in the bottle for longer, it's still developing Yeah. And it's still evolving. So that could be why I'm tasting something. Also, I have a different palate. It the longer the wine is, like, is sitting here in the in the in the bottle, it's changing. Excellent point. Yeah. Mhmm.
• 5:10
  Andrea Morris [01:01:03]: So what they wrote, like, if they wrote this six months ago,
• 5:11
  Dave [01:01:06]: it could be completely different
• 5:12
  Andrea Morris [01:01:07]: story. Yeah. I stand behind I stand behind tropical.
• 5:13
  Nathan [01:01:12]: I always get it.
• 5:14
  Andrea Morris [01:01:13]: I agree it's always bad.
• 5:15
  Nathan [01:01:15]: And I mean, it depends if it were if it were, you know, two is cooler, maybe you wouldn't get that. Yeah. You know? There's there's, it's probably adventure. And I don't think there's any wrong answers in wine that it's it's about enjoying it. You know? It really truly is. And I think that's the the part that we're about to get behind is just like, you know
• 5:16
  Andrea Morris [01:01:34]: Wine is fun. It is. They'll be intimidated by it.
• 5:17
  Nathan [01:01:36]: That's why we're all here. Right? Yeah.
• 5:18
  Andrea Morris [01:01:38]: At the
• 5:19
  Dave [01:01:38]: end of the day.
• 5:20
  Andrea Morris [01:01:39]: Yeah. Because, like, you know what? You get to meet cool people. Yeah. You get to see beautiful vineyards. You get to, like, have amazing tasting experiences. What what's not to love about that?
• 5:21
  Nathan [01:01:49]: That's it. It's You know? It's everything with about life experiences. And it it is. It's nice. And that's part of why we did the property when we did it. We wanted it to be something that was gave you that experience so you you didn't feel like you were, in a sterile environment. And and I
• 5:22
  Andrea Morris [01:02:07]: I think it has to
• 5:23
  Nathan [01:02:07]: take the level of intimidation down too. Just you feel like you're a little bit more connected with nature and I think so maybe that puts you a little bit more at ease. It's a little bit more like being on the dock at a cottage.
• 5:24
  Andrea Morris [01:02:18]: Well, yeah. You know? And the view with the trees here and then, yeah, give it another few weeks and it's gonna just be gorgeous, the fall colors and just yeah. It's like it's very I feel very relaxed sitting here.
• 5:25
  Nathan [01:02:30]: Yeah. We're really lucky. We we we are lucky in a million different I mean, we're lucky that we're from Niagara, we're lucky that we're able to make wine in Niagara, we're lucky that our people did all the heavy lifting before we got here, we're lucky that we found us properly, we're lucky that people with great talent from Dave, Peter, and bought into our dream. I mean, the the list goes on and on. We couldn't be luckier, where we you know, it's almost like one of those things that the stars aligned for us and, that, that really got everything you could ask for.
• 5:26
  Andrea Morris [01:03:03]: Well, it's a beautiful property and fantastic wines. And honestly, listener, I'm lucky that I have been here previously. Otherwise, I would have never found it. Yeah.
• 5:27
  Nathan [01:03:12]: Yeah. We're lucky people like you come out. It's it's it's a big advance, right, that there are people that are that are exploring Niagara. And we get them every weekend, and they're all people that have found out one way or the other, and they they've decided to come check it out further. And and, what Do
• 5:28
  Andrea Morris [01:03:29]: you find that now that you're in the travel guide, you get more people coming out?
• 5:29
  Nathan [01:03:33]: You know what? I think everything's always a little delayed. I mean, and it's just and I get it because they're I'm delayed, like, in every, in every way. But but no. I mean, I have plans I wanna make, and I say I'm gonna do this restaurant. I'm gonna take me three years to get there. So the I think that's that's the that's the way we're starting people here. And they go, oh, one day. Let's go.
• 5:30
  Nathan [01:03:57]: You know? Like, we're busy. So, I mean, we're definitely getting our fill, but I bet you there are a lot of people that are still saying, Hey, man, I'm gonna send them to work in Silver County every year. I haven't done it yet. So I think that's the case with everything. People have it on their list. And, so same thing with travel guide. We do typically ask where they come from, so we're just in your race. But, yeah, we get a lot from restaurants in Toronto.
• 5:31
  Nathan [01:04:26]: Actually, it's a big one. And we get I'd say most people that just show up here are they've, they've heard about us through somewhere, like, it's like a writer or something. A lot of people are just, like, googling what's new. Mhmm. And then we get people we get a lot of people that had our wines in a restaurant in Toronto predominantly that say we have our wine, we're thrilled, we wanna come down. So we get it from IP directions.
• 5:32
  Andrea Morris [01:04:52]: Well, hopefully, in the future, there'll be people that have heard this podcast and that will come in and Yeah. That's visit you because of that. Yeah. So No.
• 5:33
  Nathan [01:04:58]: I don't vote it. I think,
• 5:34
  Dave [01:05:00]: Yeah. And, honestly, to your listeners, please come down and see us. It'll me, myself, and Nathan. We do all the tastings ourselves. We don't have a retail staff or anything. We do it by appointment only so that we make sure that the both of us can give you our undivided attention. If you do book a tasting, you will be the only people on on the property at that time, so you will have, the full attention of us and, a really cool spot to enjoy yourself.
• 5:35
  Andrea Morris [01:05:25]: Oh, for sure. And speaking of someone who has actually had that tasting, it was, like, you just felt like you were so I've my friend, Julie, and I both felt like we were really special and that, like, our business really mattered. And also this the view, even though it was raining, it was stunning and just immediately felt relaxed. And your tasting the food pairing was fantastic. And, we really enjoyed that as well.
• 5:36
  Nathan [01:05:51]: Hey. We actually we just we last weekend, we and we'd say it every weekend, but it's probably our favorite part, to be honest. It's it's I mean, your it's your chance to share it. And like David said, we we we like to make it private. Nothing we do is is, geared to be snobby or
• 5:37
  Andrea Morris [01:06:06]: It's intentional.
• 5:38
  Nathan [01:06:07]: Yeah. It it it it's the idea that we we think this property is special. We wanna make sure people come here. They're not necessarily rushed, that they get a chance. Because it's really as important for us the way the way the feeling you're getting. So we wanna make sure people get that, and it's our chance to share it with people and and and share with like minded people. I mean, no one comes here With the mindset that they hate wine and they're, you know, they need to be convinced. So they're it's it's they're like minded people and we get to have a good time with them and, it's actually my favorite part of the week to be honest.
• 5:39
  Nathan [01:06:36]: Mhmm.
• 5:40
  Andrea Morris [01:06:36]: Yeah. I can see why because it's like, you know what, you get to, like, it's almost like you're showing off your baby.
• 5:41
  Nathan [01:06:41]: Yep.
• 5:42
  Andrea Morris [01:06:42]: You know, like, all of a sudden.
• 5:43
  Dave [01:06:43]: Yeah. It's meant to be enjoyed with with company. Yeah. Whether it's family, friends, people new to the the experience, it's that's what it's all about at the end of the day. Right?
• 5:44
  Andrea Morris [01:06:52]: Yeah. Exactly. So wine is fun. It's not pretentious.
• 5:45
  Nathan [01:06:55]: No. No.
• 5:46
  Andrea Morris [01:06:56]: It's just it's super fun. And I've had a really fun time with you guys this afternoon. Oh, thank you. Yeah. This is wild. Like, your wines are spectacular. The view is wonderful, and you guys are great hosts. Oh, thank you.
• 5:47
  Andrea Morris [01:07:09]: Thank you very much. So thank you so much for being a part of this episode of Still the Wine. Yeah. Pleasure. Really, really fun. So, listener, hopefully, you had as much fun as we did. So be sure to visit the show notes because there'll be information on the website for, for Dauben as well as some photos of the wine as well as, information for their for, their website that you can visit. And we really hope that you will come and visit them because this is such a great fun place.
• 5:48
  Andrea Morris [01:07:38]: Also, don't forget to like and follow Spill the Wine on all platforms. And if you have any topics or suggestions that you would like us to address, then be sure to email us at podcastspillthewine@gmail.com. That's podcastspillthewine@gmail..com. And now let's just say cheers to Nathan Cheers. And Dave. And thank you for a wonderful time, and we'll see you with the next time on spill the wine.
• 5:49
  Nathan [01:08:08]: Thank you.