Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / Eric Wiegand, Senior Portfolio Manageron markets and investing

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Eric Wiegand, Senior Portfolio Manageron markets and investing · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for
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  Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. As
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: we talk about potential tariffs and trade skirmishes, it's important
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to take a look at the industries that are being affected,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: and joining US now has pretty intimate looked at this
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: with respect to the apparel and footwear industries. Rick Helfenvine
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: he joins US now. He's president chief executive of the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: American Apparel and Footwear Association and he joins us here
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: in our eleven three oh studios. And just to give
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: people a sense of what the A A F A is,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: UH is sort of the voice of the industry that
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: includes everyone from Levi to Ralph Lauren and Gap to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Target in Washington wearing clothes. If you're wearing clothes right,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this is this is the person who is representing your
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: clothes in Washington. Rix. I want to start with you
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  Speaker 1: know what you're hearing from your members with respect to
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  Speaker 1: the tariff talk and the trade tensions. Have any of
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: their business has already been affected? All of our businesses
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: have been affected, and our members are talking to us,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I have to say, more than they've ever talked to
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  Speaker 1: us before. A lot of it is trying to figure
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: out exactly what's going on in Washington, what's the policy?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: What do they want to do? What is Washington trying
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  Speaker 1: to do to their business? They're having enough trouble just
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: running their own businesses. Do they really want to have
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  Speaker 1: added burdens? Do they want to change their global supply?
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  Speaker 1: Change weld? It's like this is important. I mean, how
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  Speaker 1: much has the trade tension actually reduced from their bottom
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  Speaker 1: line so far? I think that the reduction in bottom
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: line is is uh fast forward. It's coming. People are
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  Speaker 1: aware of it. Prices will go up, sales will go down,
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  Speaker 1: margins will be more difficult to attain. We don't understand
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: why the administration is pushing so hard to take a
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: business that is it's still in recovery mode for the
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  Speaker 1: whole his whole host of reasons, and trying to add
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: burden to it. They're not really helping us Rick, I
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: just want to give you the opportunity to share a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of your background, because, uh, this speaks to
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: your experience at USA textile mills, also working for an
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: overseas Hong Kong manufacturer of of apparel. Just give people
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit of your background so they understand that
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  Speaker 1: you're coming to this not from a political point of view,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: but you're coming to this from a real business perspective. Absolutely.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in the textile industry. My
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: father was in the textile industry. I worked for a
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: wonderful company out of Cleveland, Ohio called Campus Water and Sportswear,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: which was owned by inter COO. They taught me everything.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I was down in the mills. I was dying, finishing, weaving,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: you name it. I was involved in it from the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: ground floor. Later, we also had nineteen US UM manufacturing facilities,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: so I know how to manufacture product in the US. However,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: later on the industry morphed and more of it went overseas.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: That happened pretty much in the nineties. So I got
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: involved with a company who was based in Hong Kong.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: We manufactured overseas and I got to see all aspects
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: of the industry, which now as it relates to trade,
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  Speaker 1: I personally feel the pain. I understand what our members
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: are going through, and it is it is hurtful, we
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: believe it or not. In our industry, Um, we were
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: six percent of all imports. Keep in mindent of for well,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: apparel is imported, so we're six percent of all the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: US's imports. But we pay of all the duties collected consequently, Uh,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: any additional burden to that, We've learned to live with
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that burden. But any additional burden is downright painful. Well,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: just to play Devil's advocate here, I mean you talk
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: about the shift in the nineties where the manufacturing what overseas?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I mean President Trump is kind of responding to that.
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  Speaker 1: Perhaps you know, a decade or so too late, but
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  Speaker 1: I'm wondering, you know, what would happen if those jobs
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: did come back to the US and manufacturing could return. Well,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: we always ask the question because we also represent all
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  Speaker 1: the domestic manufacturers, which is quite frankly, about three percent
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  Speaker 1: of the market and growing and growing, but still only
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: three percent of the market. Look, when you're making apparel,
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  Speaker 1: there are two aspects of it. One is the raw material,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: fabric raw material is capital intensive, not labor intensive. Assembling
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a garment as labor intensive, takes a lot of people,
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  Speaker 1: and that's why a lot of this has morphed overseas.
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  Speaker 1: We can't really get enough people to assemble garments, and
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  Speaker 1: we can't compete on a global scale, which is what
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  Speaker 1: America is about now, trading and competing on a global scale.
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  Speaker 1: One thing I'm wondering, you know, you speak to a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people in Washington, d C. Is there unanimated
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: unanimity in anything that you hear when you talk to Congressman. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: there's unanimity because people are really questioning why, in a sense,
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  Speaker 1: we're misusing these tariffs that you hear about. They're misdirected.
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  Speaker 1: They are directives of the White House. They are powers
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  Speaker 1: that the White House can use without consulting Congress, and Congress,
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  Speaker 1: by the Constitution, is in charge of trade. I'm starting
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: to think that maybe the FDA should get involved because
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the White House. Think about this. The White House is
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: recommending metas in the form of tariffs for a disease
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: that it can't cure. Think about that these tariffs won't
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: cure our problems. They were wrong and they've been proven
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  Speaker 1: wrong before. The whole history of tariffs is very interesting.
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  Speaker 1: First time we heard about smooth holy precipitated the Great
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  Speaker 1: Depression um President Bush tried it in two thousand two
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  Speaker 1: lines steal with tariff, Remember that one lasted one year,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be three years. And then President Obama
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  Speaker 1: tried it with tires. It was a disaster, absolute disaster.
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  Speaker 1: Tariffs don't work. They're hidden tax on the American consumer.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for being with us. Rick Health
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: and Bind is the president and the chief executive of
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: the American Apparel and Footwear Association talking about tariffs, and
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: we look forward to having you on the program in
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the future. Much appreciated. Warren Buffett, the chief executive of
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Berkshire Hathaway, and Jamie Diamond, the chief executive of JP
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Morgan Chase, are looking for some radical changes to the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: way public companies disclose financial information. They have said that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: quarterly financial guidance encourages short term thinking and that it
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: stifles growth and limits innovation in the economy. Here to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: tell us more about this proposed change is Andrew Stoultman,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: securities fraud attorney at Stoutman Law Offices. Andrew, thank you
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  Speaker 1: for being with us. What's your first reaction to these
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: comments by both the Jamie Diamond and Warren Buffett. Maybe
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: I'm a little biased, but to me, it kind of
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: sounds like the worst idea since the Kardashian credit card.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a bad idea. It's kind of
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  Speaker 1: an existential question. I mean, what information our investors entitled to,
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  Speaker 1: and under the federal securities laws, they are all predicated
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: on full and complete disclosure. And if we go from
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: releasing this information four times a year to maybe only
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: two times or even one time a year, I just
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  Speaker 1: don't see how that's good for investors, and especially the
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: retail investors, because large investors will still be able to
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  Speaker 1: get access to this information, but smaller investors won't. So
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  Speaker 1: I just think it's a prior a priority issue. Are
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: we placing corporate interests ahead of the interests of small investors? Well, Andrew,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: just to push back a little bit, I mean, the
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: argument here is that these sort of short termism, or
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: the concept that the chief executives of these companies have
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  Speaker 1: to play to their just the most immediate quarter and
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: giving the best guidance possible that they don't take some
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: of the extra money that they have invested back in
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: their business, build more plans, take more risks. I mean
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: not only that, but you could argue, and this is
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: something else that Warren Buffett and James and Diamond were arguing,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: which is that this requirement to continually forecast earnings is
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  Speaker 1: one reason why there are many are companies that have
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: gone public, which also isn't necessarily in the best interest
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: of retail investors. How do you respond to those issues, Well,
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  Speaker 1: I think that's on companies. I mean, if companies are
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  Speaker 1: spending an inordinate amount of time making certain that quarterly
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  Speaker 1: earnings are met instead of a year or two years
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  Speaker 1: or five years out, that's on them. I mean, there's
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  Speaker 1: no obligation to to basically meet those quarterly numbers. And yes,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: you can argue that volatility will be increased to the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: extent companies have to release this information quarterly. But there
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: are plenty of companies out there, including Warren Buffett, that
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: basically remind investors, don't look at our quarterly information. We
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: are on a year to year or five or ten
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  Speaker 1: year track. And I feel like the you know, the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: pressures it's self inflicted on CEOs to meet those quarterly numbers.
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  Speaker 1: I just I don't get it. Well, you know, Andrew,
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  Speaker 1: I wanted to follow up with the last point that
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I was making, which is that many fewer companies have
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  Speaker 1: been going public, and then part it is because of
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  Speaker 1: these requirements to continually forecast data. And people are arguing
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  Speaker 1: that this is also really bad for retail investors because
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: they have a fewer, smaller pool of companies to invest in.
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  Speaker 1: What do you say to that. I think there are
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  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of reasons why there are less companies listed.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think that the you know, the pressure of
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  Speaker 1: releasing quarterly earnings or quarterly revenue or that guidance is
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the sort of thing that would cause UH companies to say,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: you know what, we're going to remain private, We're not
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: going to go public. I just, you know, I don't
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: buy it. And look, if companies are that concerned about
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: having to release information that I, you know, I've argued
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: they have a finuciary duty to release and provide guidance on,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: maybe they shouldn't be public companies. Alright, I'm just wonder
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: if we could just tease apart this idea that releasing
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: information that is pertinent to public shareholders is one thing.
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  Speaker 1: But then that three month ninety days cycle of having
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to meet estimates that are put together based on the
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: limited information that you are legally allowed to offer the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: analyst community. Do you not see that there's a difference. No,
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  Speaker 1: I mean okay, So all right, No, all right, So
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: let me ask you then, Have you worked for a
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: public or a public company? No? I haven't. Okay, So
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: if someone came to you and said, working for a
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: publicly traded company is very different than working for a
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: privately held company, would you accept that? Well, yes, I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: would accept that it is radically different. But once you
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: take public, public money, you have fiduciary duties to those investors. No. No,
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  Speaker 1: I understand that, But I mean, but but but it
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like people do because people are taking a
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: position that, g it's such a it's such a pain
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: for us to release information to the shareholders who have
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: placed their money with our company, and we all fiduciary
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: duties to those investors, and if it's burdensome, if it's
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: too difficult, then they probably shouldn't be publicly traded companies.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I guess i'd ask you this question in September two
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight, do you want to know whether Merrill
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Lynch and Morgan Stanley's revenues are dramatically declining or increasing
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: or staying or basically staying neutral. I mean, that's important
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: information for you to decide whether you want to keep
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: your money or invest your money in these companies. Yeah, Um,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and Andrew, I'm wondering. No one thing that struck me.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And some of the stories that were written about this,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: uh many noted that the number of companies that actually
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: do give forecasts earning earnings per share forecasts has fallen
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: over the past eight years to less than a third
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: from about thirty six in two thousand and ten. Have
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: you seen the companies that release less guidance get treated
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: better than the other companies are worse by investors? That's
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a that's a really hard question, and I don't you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to it, and I'm afraid
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: to kind of go out on a limb and and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and give an opinion on that. But so I'm just
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: not comfortable going out on that branch because I haven't
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: studied that quite as intensely as I would need to
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: in order to make an opinion on it. Okay, let's
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: just to go back to this idea of quarterly information.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: The idea of being not being that they would uh
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: decrease the amount of information that they would offer the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: shareholding public, but this idea of offering guidance, and then
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: that guidance, as you well know, gets used by Wall
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Street analysts in order to estimate what will or won't happen.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure you're well aware of what happens on
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: those earnings days when the company meets estimates, when it
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: uh doesn't meet estimates? Do you believe that that increase
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: east volatility is good for their business? Well, I guess
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I would flip it and say the opposite of that is,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: what if you're only uh disclosing numbers uh twice a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: year or even once a year, disclosed them every quarter? Great?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Great disclosed, right, And that's what we're arguing that these
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: numbers should have to be disclosed every single quarter. And
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the fact that Jamie Diamond and and and Warren Buffett
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to do it isn't a valid reason when
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you're weighing the impact that that would have, especially on
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: small retail investors. Look, I personally think it's kind of
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: ironic that Warren Buffett is advocating for this position, given
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: he's the biggest shareholder in Wells Fargo. And if I'm
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: contemplating investing or staying invested in Wells Fargo, I want
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: to know what sort of impact have all of these
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: scandals had on earnings and revenues for the company. And
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: if I'm not getting that in a timely fashioned four
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: times a year, I that kind of creates a vacuum
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: of information now, Andrew, Unfortunately we have to leave it there,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: but thank you so much. A really good discussion and
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: hashing in a lot of the issues. Andrew Stoultman is
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: securities for an attorney at Stoultman Law Offices. The credibility
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: of central banks in emerging markets? Is it on the line? Well,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: here to tell us more is Damian sass Our Bloomberg
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Intelligence is fixed income strategist. All right, Damien, emerging markets.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: There's a currency issue Turkey, Argentina, Brazil. Need I go on? Uh?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Is there going to be a moment where the central
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: banks of countries such as those realize that they're pushing
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: against the string? Yeah? No, I mean we are. We
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: are in the midst of a crisis of confidence here
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: PIM and so what what we were just talking about.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: What's interesting is inflation is actually stable or declining in
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: most emerging markets. Yet you know, it's it's I mean,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: markets are rushing to price in considerable um rate hikes
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: in each of these markets, you know, over the next
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: three months. You know, we have a lot of central
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: bank meetings coming on the heels of the FED next week,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and Brazil, Mexico, the Philippines, I mean, most of these
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: markets are are now pricing in additional tightening. Just you know,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's pretty unbelievable just how quickly things have changed,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and only the last month. Well, um, first of all,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's hard to sort of speak about
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: emerging markets as and monolith because there is some, uh,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: some spots where there is considerable inflation. I mean Turkey,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: for example, being a poster child for that. But I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: have to wonder whether this is all a byproduct of
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: the FEDS tightening and the fact that you're not seeing
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the acceleration in stimulus from the e c B and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the b o J that you had in the past.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: You're still seeing same of that's just not the acceleration.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: So they can't offset the fact that the FED has
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: started to shrink its balance sheet and that it is
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: raising rates. Well, it's a relative value game, right, I
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: mean you carry so well in the short end of
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: the U S. Treasury curve. Now, I mean money markets, right,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I mean it's an asset class all of a sudden,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: all over again. Right, that's what everybody's talking about, and
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: so E M has to compete with that. And you know,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: there are easier ways, I guess, to make money than
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: investing in emerging markets with all of the currency volatility
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: to your point, and that's going on right now. Now.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: It used to be that if you had an emergent,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: let's say you were a country that was export driven,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: maybe commodity export driven, right, it was perfectly fine for
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: you to have your currency devalue against the US dollar
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: because that made you much more competitive. Cheaper exports, you
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: take over markets. But now you've got trade barriers going
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: up around the world. Yeah yeah, now, I mean we
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: we we were just talking about that the other day.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So you know what's interesting is most people, you know,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: ascribe all the pain to China. Right, the China has
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: BA basically, um, you know Chinese imports, right, or you
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: know the trade depths at the U S has with
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: China and how that kind of filters through into Mexico
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and a lot of their you know, the U S
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: has other trade partners, etcetera. But what's really interesting here
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: is with these trade barriers coming up, and even you
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: know President Trump's kind of closet proposal to slap withcent
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: tax on auto imports, I mean this, I mean, think
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: about what that would do to Germany and to the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: CE three, poland hungry check. I mean, people aren't really
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: talking about this, but you know, I mean those economies
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: would I mean, it would just be it would be devastating, right,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And you know, we look at so we were looking
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: at basically which emerging market countries are most at risk
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: given their bilateral trade and balances and the two that
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: kind of pop up if indeed China needs to concede
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: to to to US demands or South Korea and Brazil. Right,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Brazil is a huge exporter of soy and and and
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: soybeans and all that kind of stuff. Yet the US
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: is the leading producer of that globally. So where do
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you think, you know, the twenty five billion dollars you
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: know that China's proposing to to kind of give to
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the US is going to come from right and South
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Korea's machine it's it's chips, it's semi conducting semiconductor chips.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So you can definitely see China begin to may begin
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: to kind of substitute away from you know, from from
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: dealing with those two countries and maybe you know, uh,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you know, spend a little bit more money in terms
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: of importing from the US in those two areas. Are
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: we seeing contagion? I mean, contagions a dirty word, but yes,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: this is exactly what we're seeing right now. I mean
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: we're seeing you know, we're seeing things spread. And I
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: think it's more a fact of the liquid currencies, you know,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the rand now and uh and the Mexican paste, which
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: are basically being used as a hedge for a lot
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: of macro players here to kind of all set their
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: emerging market currency risks. So so yeah, I mean what
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you're seeing is contagion only because people are in search
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of a liquid hedge through which the kind of to
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: play what's going on now in a m The reason
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: why I ask is because you're not seeing massive flows
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: out of the broad based indexed emerging markets debt funds.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So if this is contagion, I just in wondering. You know,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: also when you talk to people, they say, these are
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: idiosyncratic stories and they point to, uh, problems in the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: underlying economies. But you know, is there a degree at
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: which you could always find issues and sort of a
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: tribute the moves to them. But really what we're seeing
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: is just macro plays that are that are playing out.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, okay, so contagions there. I mean,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: there are two ways of defining it. Right. There's you know,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: financial market contagion, which is what we're seeing here, which
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: is merely you know, price action. Right, You're not really
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: seeing it affect the real economies yet to your point,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you know, you're not seeing you know, real economies, real
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: growth declining, you know, um, real inflation picking up in
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of these economies. Um, you know. But but
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: but I think you're definitely seeing financial market contagion, and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that is a function of the fact that, hey, people
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: are rushing to protect their interests in a lot of
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: these markets, and they're just aren't a lot of liquid
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: mechanisms out there, uh, to do it. So people are
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: kind of going to the rand, they're going to the rail,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: they're going to you know, they're going to the Lira
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: for example. I mean just to basically try and you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: offset some of the weakness and um and so that
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: from that perspective, that's the type of contagion that we're seeing.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Do we need to also go visit places like Miami?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I mean talk about capital moving just look at home prices, yeah,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: look at where look at where the money comes from. Yeah, no,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of I mean there's there's
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of I mean what we look at, I
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: guess in e m IS is remittances and repatriation of assets,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: and a lot of that data, unfortunately is in real time.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: It's hard to kind of get your arms around it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: But um, there are a lot of us um um
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: let's call it, you know, us vested interests in emerging
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: markets that are based in places like Florida and so yeah,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I know it's your point. You know, you see a
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: lot of Latin American kind of expats, you know, who
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: are who who might very well be looking at at
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: at at putting money to work there hopefully in the
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: NATI distant future. Davian Sassaur, thank you so much for
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: being with us. It's always enlightening to speak with you.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Damian Sasaur is a fixed income strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: focusing on emerging markets. He's great follow his research reports.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: They're insightful and deep. You know him. A constant theme
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is as we watch these headlines roll out about some
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: of the trade tensions, how much should investors care? And
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's an important question and I'm glad that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: we have Eric Weakend here with us to answer it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Eric weigand a senior portfolio manager at US Bank Private
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Wealth Management overseeing about a hundred and fifty four billion dollars,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: who joins us here in our eleven three oh studios. Eric,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you talk with a lot of wealthy individuals, business owners.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: What's the main question they ask you? And what do
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: you tell them? You know, it's particularly regarding the you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the trade issues. Those individuals that are business owners are
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: are genuinely uh sensitive about the you know, the notion
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: that trade is not currently fair. Uh. They may be
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: troubled and have a lot of anxiety about how uh
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: uh you know. The discussion continues to you know, evolve,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: particularly regarding you know, isolating what have been our major
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: trading partners and being somewhat antagonistic to to our allies.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: But I think there's almost a complacency in some of
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: their concerns that that this is merely a negotiating tactic,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: that the rhetoric, you know, doesn't necessarily represent reality. They're
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: waiting for greater clarity to really formalize their opinions. Eric,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: what role does UH inflation play in the conversation right
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: now with clients about what to do with their money?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's you know, that is certainly one
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of the key focal points for us, as it is
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: has been for everyone. Everyone's looking for the you know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: the emergence of inflation. We've continued to see a very
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: favorable labor backdrop wages. While we did see wages last
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Friday increase UH perhaps a little bit ahead of expectations,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the persistence of inflation just hasn't been present.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: You know, we get a little bit of growth and
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: then we'd see a little bit of retreat even you know,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: looking at the data points that we've had this week,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: whether it's Delta airlines coming out talking about pricing pressures
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: because of the fuel increase. Even you know, uh, it
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: was reported today that you know, uh Smuckers was having
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: difficulties seeing significant increase in their logistics and transportation costs.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: We're seeing some some feed through. It's just the persistence
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that's necessary. To your point, Pim. One of the things
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that they're uh, you know that they're finally uh, you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: embracing if you will, is you know that there's an
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: alternative as a result of you know, more normalization on
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: monetary policy, that front end of the yield curve is
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is finally providing a return at a lower risk point,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: and and that's giving them a little bit of comfort
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: at a moderating some of their positioning. So I want
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: to bring in the emerging market sell off that we've
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: been watching, and I'm wondering how you're viewing that and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: whether you're advising any of your clients to either withdraw
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: from some of these uh developing nations or to take
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: advantage of the sell off to capture extra yield. You know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: it's a great question. We had spent the last two years,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: uh much more of a U with a risk on
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: posture across our asset allocation models for our clients. UM.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: And then early this in the first quarter of this year,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: we thought the narrative was was changing, so we began
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: to to moderate that position, taking off some of that
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: really long equity exposure which was inclusive of international. Uh.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And while we still saw a favorable backdrop domestically, that
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: international was a little bit more problematic. What were you
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: buying instead, you know, uh, in a couple of different areas.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Number one, as I mentioned earlier, finding some attractiveness on
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the front end of the of the curve, So going
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: from being more materially underweight fixed income to narrowing you
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: know that underweight, but also looking at things that were
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you know, less correlated uh, you know, with with equities,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: So exploring even things like insurance linked securities, uh, that
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that don't have those same types of correlations you mentioned. Uh,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the sort of change in short term money rates. Are
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: you finding that more people are interested in that than
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: they are in stocks? Uh? Not so much as yet. UH.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: And I think part of that is because we've you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: for all the uh, you know, the focus on volatility
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: that we've seen, you know, in the equity market on
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: a year today basis, we've still moved laterally, so you know,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: for the most part, our clients are still seeing uh,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: you know, appreciation in their portfolio, so it hasn't had
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: that type of a bite. They do understand, as you know,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: we've we've been very proactive at discussing with them that
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: our expectations for returns this year are much more moderate
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: than what we had seen over you know, certainly two
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: thousand seventeen. Can you help me understand why you think
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the narrative is changing, why you expect to see more
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: moderate returns if after we just saw earnings they were
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: really good. Yeah, it's it's absolutely a great point. And
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: there's two things that I really want to talk about. Their.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Number one from a narrative standpoint, Uh, you know, we
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: really had the best of world's last year. Very low inflation,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: very accommodative monetary policy. You had strong not only earnings growth,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: but strong revenue growth. You had that in an environment
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: where there was just language or rhetoric around trade. You
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: weren't seeing any repercussions there. And importantly, there was synchronized
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: global growth. We've seen you know, some of the economic
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: day of more recently has shown some moderation to that
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: that growth it's not necessarily as strong or as broad.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So that's that's causing us, uh, you know, to increase
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: our our concerned. We are you know, from a monetary
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: accommodation standpoint, we're seeing that being withdrawn or the prospect
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: of it emerging. So we think that that's that's changed.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know, importantly as we look at those
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: earnings growth. You know, I think that the quintessential example
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: of this was Caterpillars earnings. Uh, you know, the stock
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: was up during the you know, during the conference call,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and in the course of one sentence you know, suggesting
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine things getting any better. You know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the stock you know, immediately reversed. You know, it's pricing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: So we agree, you know, looking at the first quarter
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: being you know, seeing revenue growth over eight percent, seeing
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: earnings growth, you know, approaching that's fantastic. But the market
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: is a forward indicator and looking at at that it
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: is difficult to imagine that that that pace is likely
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: to be sustained. So we do believe that earnings will
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: drive stock prices, but we also believe, because of that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: changing narrative, will see the valuations of the multiples that
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: investors are willing to provide. Uh, you know, narrowing just briefly,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: h muni bonds, Any interest on behalf of the clients
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and investing in muni bonds now, you know very much.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: So particularly from a you know, from a geographic perspective,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of our clients live in some very high
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: tax states. So whether that be New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Illinois,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: or California, you know, these are areas where high income earners,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: you know, particularly with the reduction and the ability uh
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: or the reduction and the ability to duct state and
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: local taxes, you know, has made that clearly an interesting opportunity.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks very much for being with us interesting topics. Eric
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Wagan is the senior portfolio manager for US Bank Private
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Wealth Management, helping to manage more than a hundred and
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars of customer assets. And thanks for listening
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: one before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio