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Do We Only Need God When Science Fails? · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Relish pleasing or zestful flavor a quantity
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  just sufficient to flavor to be pleased or
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  gratified by enjoy we are hoping that what
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  we bring to your table today might add some spice to your life good morning
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  everybody welcome back to another episode of relish i'm rowan miller and this
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  is of course don patterson it's good to be here it is it's a fun fun thing to
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  be here it is It's fun. It is fun.
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  I'm glad to do it with you. It's been a privilege.
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  It has been. You've been really busy here lately. You have too, yeah.
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  That's true. Running around town, running out of state, you know.
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  Oh my, yes, we did do some of that, didn't we?
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  We did. Yeah, and you've been so busy in soccer and in golf.
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  Yeah. And showed up as the local newspaper's athlete of the week.
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  Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. God bless you, Rowan. That's cool. Thank you, Don. You too.
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  Well, we probably ought to remind everybody that comic relief in this is that
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  Rowan brings these heavy-duty questions, and you've been really doing good on the questions.
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  Yeah. And I have no preparation ahead of time other than what I do in my pastoral work here.
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  So the comic relief is trying to stump Don so that he doesn't have anything
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  to say, which is difficult. And really a challenge.
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  And that's part of what we do. Try to spice things up by being as authentic
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  and quick in our answers as we can possibly be without preparation ahead of time.
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  Yeah. I scrap around from him so he doesn't even know where they're coming from. That's right.
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  That's right. I have no idea which of his friends he's talked to this week about this question.
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  Well, today we got them coming from the end of the Hillcrest episodes. Okay.
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  So we still got a couple from that. So some of these, I don't even know who they're coming from,
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  Okay, they're that, okay Okay, I'm ready Yeah, so this first one,
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  it's a pretty deep question What is your take on the concept of the God of the gaps?
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  Couldn't one argue all theology is built on the God of the gaps concept?
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  Or is there irrefutable logical evidence proving God's existence?
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  I think there's irrefutable evidence of God's existence.
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  And one of the things that Bible brings out is the consistency between the beginning
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  of the Old Testament all the way to Revelation that he never changes.
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  In fact, God himself would say he never changes so that we would not be in danger.
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  It's uh if he changed and
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  the rules would change then how
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  would we know ahead of time whether okay all the rules have changed like in
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  sports soccer golf if all of a sudden oh this year there's brand new rules and
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  nobody told you and all of a sudden you did the play according to the rules
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  of last year but this year that disqualifies that play you wouldn't feel good
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  about that, would you? No.
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  And you wouldn't have any warning ahead of time.
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  So my sense is God being consistent from Old Testament to New,
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  which is sometimes missed,
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  how consistent God is between the Old Testament and New, is the reason that
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  we can trust Him. And it is a proof that He's there.
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  God of the gaps, I really haven't heard that That concept before?
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  Do you have that? Yeah. So the God of the gaps is essentially like when there
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  are gaps in scientific evidence or reasoning, then...
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  It's referenced as indications of God's existence where God will step in and
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  do something, and that just explains what science can't, essentially.
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  So some examples of this are some of the current scientists don't believe in
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  the Big Bang Theory, obviously,
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  so they would say God just created life, but after that, we don't know exactly how he did that. Yeah.
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  Originally Isaac Newton, with all his mathematics calculations with the solar
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  system, thought that it should be disrupting itself, like the planets would
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  be running into each other or something like that.
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  So he said that every once in a while, God would step in and keep it aligned.
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  Just take care of that. Yeah.
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  And that's where I would come out just the opposite and say,
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  that's more theocentric evolution.
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  Yeah. That'd be God of the gaps, I guess. And I am more of a seven-day,
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  24-hour day, God created from the very beginning, all things,
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  and so I don't see the gaps.
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  I come from the other angle. So I put God at the center and at the very beginning.
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  And I don't dismiss science. I don't miss science.
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  Because science, I think, proves God. yeah
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  and and some of the science that i've seen about uh footprints human footprints
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  and dinosaur footprints in the same fossil level tells me i'm not sure evolution
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  was quite right and billions of years i don't think so yeah so that's where i come out.
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  The gaps thing isn't a problem for me yeah because i don't see gaps yeah all right maybe i should,
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  go and see what all they, some other more examples or whatever,
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  bring it back. Yeah. That'd be fine.
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  I, I, it works good from examples because then I can give examples too. Yeah.
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  You guys should let us know if you enjoyed listening to that part and then.
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  Well, that's true. And comment and tell us and search more questions, you know.
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  And submit questions in the comments. I mean, if you're watching this on YouTube,
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  You can commit to put those comments right in the bottom and,
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  and we'll, our producer will lean those questions and give them back to us. Yeah.
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  See, our producer gave us a new background. So we have a.
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  Hi, producer. Thank you. Yeah.
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  All right. Why do people interpret the Bible in so many different ways?
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  Interpret the Bible in so many different ways.
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  Well, partially because we're human.
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  In our human experience, we're always going to project what we know onto what we're learning.
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  Doesn't matter what subject it is, but we're always, as human beings,
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  going to project what we know and our understanding of how the universe works
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  and how life works in general, we're going to interpret that and press that
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  upon what we're learning.
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  And so we'll filter, if you will, the kind of information that even if we're
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  learning science or math or
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  anything else, we're still going to use our filter work to bring that in.
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  It's only when we start taking the subject to deeper levels,
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  that we begin to allow that work to change our way of interpreting things.
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  So in other words, then we become a disciple of Jesus Christ and we'll understand
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  through who Jesus is, who God is better.
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  By understanding God better, we understand why the Old Testament reads like
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  it does compared to the New Testament and how it reads.
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  Because some people think, well, we don't need the Old Testament anymore.
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  And part of that's because of the way they're interpreting it through their filter.
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  So, go back to the question again. Why do people interpret the Bible in something
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  different? And that's why people interpret it so much differently.
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  We have different filters for learning and in receiving information.
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  We have different levels of being engaged in the subject, like the Bible.
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  And so we're going to interpret it differently. I mean, in my own experience,
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  by getting deeper in the word, I changed theologically a great deal between
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  1995 and 1999 because I wasn't tied to a church in that period of time.
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  I could go into the word and allow it to speak to me rather than me saying,
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  well, this says, and according to this, I could It allowed the word to speak to me. Yeah.
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  And it changed me in a good way.
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  Yeah. I think. Yeah. Good way. Yeah. I'd say so.
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  Some of you who knew me before 1997 might say differently, but I think I've
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  grown exponentially by allowing, by not taking my interpretation into the word,
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  but allowing the word to speak into my life.
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  Yeah. Rather than the other way around. Yeah.
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  If I, if I have something I want to justify and,
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  and then read it toward, I'll find the passage that justifies that.
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  Well, that's not really allowing the word to speak to me.
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  That's me using the word to justify my actions.
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  So it's backwards. Yeah.
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  You think there's multiple correct interpretations?
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  I think that less than I used to. Yeah. I used to think, oh,
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  well, there's some truth in that.
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  And I believe that less than I used to.
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  That being said, I think we create a legalism sometimes that's hard to live
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  up to that maybe not be godly, that may not be godly.
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  So we have to be a little careful with that as well. Yeah.
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  Different denominations interpret different ways.
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  Would they? They do. Do you say that they kind of select passages differently?
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  Well, we usually follow a founder of some sort, and in following that founder,
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  then whatever that founder, who probably knew more about it than we claim to,
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  we follow what they interpret.
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  There's some things like, I don't see infant baptism in the Bible,
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  but I do see that infants were so important to Jesus, especially when you see
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  that first part of Matthew 18.
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  I mean, children were so important to Jesus, there needs to be something like
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  a dedication or something, but maybe not baptism.
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  But baptism of infants was used in the pre-Reformation period so we could get
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  the census records right.
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  Okay, kids born, let's make sure they are on the tax rolls.
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  And so it worked for the church at that time. I'm not sure it works for the
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  church today. So that'd be one point.
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  I don't see infants be baptized, but there's a denomination that makes a case
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  for infant baptism because of how much Jesus cared for children.
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  Yeah, it's a good answer.
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  Why is God said to be a jealous God? What does that mean?
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  Isn't jealousy a sin? Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day.
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  And it's Exodus chapter 20 that we see that.
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  And God's doing this. I'm not sure the jealousy that is outlined in this passage is the same thing.
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  Like I'm, I'm jealous of, boy, you got a really nice shirt. I'm jealous of the shirt.
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  I don't think it's that same kind of jealousy that we think of on a human level,
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  but it's a God who wants our worship because it's put in that context. Yeah.
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  You shall not bow down to them. You shall not make for yourself any form of
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  anything in heaven above or earth beneath or in the waters below.
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  You shall not bow down to them nor worship them. For I, the Lord,
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  your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers
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  to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me and showing love to
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  the thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
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  So I think just expanding that to see the whole context of that comment about
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  God's jealousy helps us understand it's not jealousy in that he has to have
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  it or carries the same kind of sin that if I'm jealous of you,
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  it's the kind of jealousy that he wants us to love him and he wants us to worship him.
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  It's not a, oh, I've got to have that or you can't have that kind of jealousy
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  that we often cultivate as human beings.
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  That's totally different than what God's doing here.
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  But we're limited in our English language, and that's how it comes out.
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  I mean, how can we describe in any language the emotions of God?
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  So that's close. And so that's one of those situations. Well,
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  if you take that same word into the human experience, then it'd be a sin.
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  So why wouldn't it be a sin to God for God to do that? Well,
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  it's because his nature is desirous of our worship.
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  And that's all right. I mean, he's God. He could ask for that.
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  And I think the error is more in our language than it is in the character of God.
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  That's interesting. Never thought about that before. Our language is pretty pathetic. Yeah.
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  I mean. I'm starting to know that more after. I look at John 20,
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  and I'll be preaching. I preached that last week.
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  There's three different words for saw used in chapter 20.
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  And they're all different in the Greek, but we use the same word in English.
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  I mean, you talk about pathetic.
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  Yeah. Okay. Just one of those illustrations of how our language limits,
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  is limited to really reflect who God is.
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  How do you walk in the spiritual authority God gives us? Oh man, that's a good one.
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  We can walk in that spiritual authority by the cultivation of our personal relationship with God.
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  And that authority is not something that we grasp hold of, it's actually something given.
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  And so if you're in a situation of, let's go into spiritual warfare,
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  just go blow this and ride out of the park.
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  How do you work in spiritual warfare with authority?
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  Well, it's our authority, but it's not really resident in us as much as it is reflection of God.
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  And so when I go into a situation where I know that God has authority over everything
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  else, and I'm working on his behalf, and I'm renouncing the ground that the devil has taken,
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  and God has given us authority to take it back because we're in Christ.
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  We're in Christ. We're a new creation. We're children of God. Romans 8.
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  So we can act on that authority from the relationship we have with the Father.
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  And that gives us the authority to do spiritual warfare for him,
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  for his kingdom. It's...
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  Dr. Marcus Warner would liken it to the fact that we're like policemen.
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  It's not like we have the authority, but we do represent that authority in times
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  of spiritual encounter with the devil.
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  And so we can walk in that authority because of who we are in Christ.
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  And that's how we can, yeah, walk with spiritual authority. Yeah. Nice.
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  Did that answer the question? What was the question again? I sort of get off
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  on the answer there and I sort of miss sometimes the question.
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  How do you walk in the spiritual authority God gives us? Okay.
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  I think that we walk like a policeman does. Yeah. Yeah.
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  We'll do one more here. What advice do you have for someone considering a gap
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  year or college after high school? Oh, man, I love that question.
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  I would say there's several discipleship-oriented ministries that you could maybe go into for a year.
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  There's one out of Ohio, and I'm trying to think. What was here at church a
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  couple weeks? Off the Wall.
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  Off the Wall Ministries in Ohio, I would say is one of those that actually you can go live with them.
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  You can minister through their work, and part of every day is discipleship.
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  And so you grow as a disciple of Jesus Christ in that period of time.
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  It is the kind of investment that you can make that would equate,
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  I'd say, a year of college.
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  And then not only do you age a year and go into your freshman year of college
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  more seasoned, if you will,
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  more aware of who you are and what you're being called to do,
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  but you also go with a level of discipleship that can help you.
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  Be stronger every day to, to live. I mean, if, if you're not on a,
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  in a Christian college atmosphere,
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  you could go to a university and still feel like you're a Christian and could
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  minister in there, in the, in the university atmosphere, maybe a little stronger.
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  That's a great question, Rowan. Yeah. I wish I could claim that one.
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  You couldn't, it wasn't your question. Okay. Well, that's all right.
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  That's all right. That's a good question. Yeah, it really was.
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  Yeah well thank you everybody for joining us I hope you enjoyed maybe share
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  it with a friend or loved ones like it put a thumbs up,
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  something like that well thank you guys for joining us we'll see you next time,
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  thank you for joining us for this podcast feel free to become part of this ministry
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  by sharing it with others our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our
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  understanding of who God is and is calling to us in our daily lives Thank you
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  again for joining us and may God bless your day.