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With Great Power #348... 22 Panels with Raquelle Jac · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

0:02
Tad Eggleston: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to 22 Panels. My guest today is,
0:07
Tad Eggleston: New on the scene from Fanagraphics, Raquelle Jac.
0:10
Tad Eggleston: Your book, Thimbo Agent Prod, did it come out last week or the week before? I know it's recent.
0:16
Raquelle: The week before.
0:18
Tad Eggleston: Week before, so it's been on the shelves for a little bit more than a week and a half.
0:22
Tad Eggleston: So you shouldn't have trouble finding it.
0:24
Tad Eggleston: And I read it this last week, and was blown away.
0:31
Tad Eggleston: I really, really enjoyed my read. So, Raquelle, thank you for… for spending some time with me, and thank you for your…
0:39
Tad Eggleston: It's always weird to say amazing work when I also have to say heartbreaking and… and… and gut-punching and raw and honest work, but yes, all of those things. Thank you.
0:52
Raquelle: Yeah, it's really great to be here. Thank you for having me on the show.
0:56
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so… let's start with…
1:01
Tad Eggleston: just give me kind of the front counter pitch for Bimbo AguProprop. If you were… if you're working at a comic shop.
1:08
Tad Eggleston: Like…
1:13
Tad Eggleston: who would be the customer that you would go, oh, I must put this book in the hands of, and then, like, how would you pitch it to them?
1:23
Raquelle: I think probably, like, a… a young woman. Like, I… I think I wrote this book for me as… me in my early 20s, but I know that people of all walks of life, have enjoyed it so far.
1:39
Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely.
1:40
Raquelle: Like, even, like, my more…
1:45
Raquelle: I don't know, like, it's been really cool…
1:48
Raquelle: I was about to go on a tangent, but,
1:51
Tad Eggleston: Tangents are cool. Tangents are completely allowed.
1:54
Raquelle: It's just been cool that, like, even my most, like,
1:58
Raquelle: modest and, like, sort of, like, not conservative, like, socially, but just, like, more, like, you know, modest friends are, like, still, have been really supportive about the book, and, like, have also found, like, enjoyment in it as well. And, so, like.
2:15
Raquelle: And it's also been really…
2:19
Raquelle: It… because it's a memoir, like, it feels very, it also feels…
2:25
Raquelle: like, very profound, to have my work be accepted in that way. But anyway, so the pitch would be, like, a young woman,
2:38
Raquelle: like, childhood, in the white… like, I mean, I can read the back of the book, but.
2:47
Tad Eggleston: It's so good.
2:48
Raquelle: Growing up in, you know, red state America, in the, there's, like, Y2K paranoia, and…
2:55
Tad Eggleston: I'll do it this way,
2:58
Tad Eggleston: You want to figure… er… oh, no, see, I don't even have a great one, because it… it does, it hits so many things, but I would actually pitch it… obviously, I'd pitch it to… to… to the… the…
3:12
Tad Eggleston: The person who… I thought would see themselves in the book, but, like, I'm a grandfather, and I have…
3:20
Tad Eggleston: I have a daughter that's probably older than you.
3:22
Tad Eggleston: That sort of thing, and I think I… I think I would pitch it to…
3:27
Tad Eggleston: The me's just as much, because it's like, okay, you wanna… you wanna feel…
3:33
Tad Eggleston: For what it's like to grow up, in… Small town red state.
3:40
Tad Eggleston: You want to put humanity?
3:43
Tad Eggleston: onto… to… These things that… that…
3:48
Tad Eggleston: We talk about a lot in the abstract. This is the book.
3:55
Raquelle: Yeah, I think…
3:58
Raquelle: Like, the majority of the book goes into my, my mother and, her struggles with, like, mental illness and how… and the experience of having a mother who is, like.
4:13
Raquelle: who, like, shaped my childhood in a lot of ways, because of her struggles. But I feel like some of my favorite stories are more, like, in the fun stories, section of the book, where, it's more just, like.
4:29
Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean.
4:30
Raquelle: As a teenager, and… yeah.
4:32
Tad Eggleston: no offense, but I would hope that your favorite stories are… having read the book, I would hope that your favorite stories are the ones in the back fun stories part of the book, because, like.
4:45
Tad Eggleston: again, because I don't… I don't want to… the other… the hardest thing about talking with people about books like this is, like, I know that you already had to relive some shit.
4:57
Tad Eggleston: just to draw it. I don't wanna, like, make you relive some shit just to talk to me.
5:05
Raquelle: Yeah, I mean, it's okay. I… it is interesting, because something that really struck me whenever I was listening to the, like, Kayla E. interview, I… was that she, spoke about, like, I think she had a similar experience as me,
5:23
Raquelle: whenever she wrote, her book, and, Precious Rubbish, and I think,
5:31
Raquelle: Because, like, she talks about it being separate from herself, and that's sort of been my experience, where…
5:37
Raquelle: I had all these things just, like, gnawing at me, just, like, and I was constantly, like, reliving it, and constantly thinking about it. Like, I recently reconnected with my sister, who I had, like, cut out of my life for a while over something that I don't even remember, like, what the issue was, but…
5:57
Tad Eggleston: Isn't that how it always is?
5:58
Raquelle: Yeah.
6:01
Raquelle: And, like, oh yeah, I reconnected with her, and she was like… and I was like, I don't even remember what our fight was about, and then she was like, well, I'm not gonna remind you. Like, I learned my lesson.
6:12
Tad Eggleston: That's a good indicator that you were in the right.
6:17
Raquelle: No, I don't think so.
6:18
Tad Eggleston: Right.
6:19
Raquelle: I don.
6:19
Tad Eggleston: If she's not gonna remind you, then she doesn't want to remind you.
6:23
Raquelle: Maybe, I don't know. But, let me think, she… Oh, yeah, she…
6:33
Raquelle: she told me how I… before I, made the book, I… I would just, like, randomly talk, like, randomly bring up, like, horrible memories that I had, and just out of nowhere, and… and, like, it was just, like, constantly brewing under the surface, and… but now it's, like.
6:53
Raquelle: I don't think about this stuff at all anymore.
6:56
Tad Eggleston: He found a way to let him out.
6:57
Raquelle: Yeah, it's like, now it's completely separate from myself, and
7:03
Raquelle: Like, and it has been very interesting to, like.
7:08
Raquelle: Have people ask me questions about these things, and doing interviews, because…
7:16
Raquelle: there's a part of me even that's, like, insecure that, like, well, what if I, like, put something in the book and, like, I don't remember it anymore? But, like, I remember everything, but it's just, like, like, I don't think about it anymore, and something that I've really been, like, struggling with and sort of…
7:32
Raquelle: working on within myself, cause…
7:36
Raquelle: I, like, recently was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and That, like.
7:45
Raquelle: I don't know, I kind of thought that the book had healed me, and that I didn't,
7:49
Raquelle: that, like, I… because I didn't… because I wasn't thinking about the things that were happening to me, that… that… that happened to me,
7:57
Raquelle: I… I didn't have to deal with them anymore, like, I was, like, I… but it's like, I… I still have the maladaptive behaviors, I still, like…
8:06
Raquelle: Like, right now, like, I deal with paranoia, and it's like.
8:11
Tad Eggleston: Right.
8:11
Raquelle: It's just, it's, like, crazy, but I don't know.
8:14
Tad Eggleston: I have all of the things. I am autistic, I am bipolar, I have PTSD and PTSD.
8:24
Tad Eggleston: And if there's one thing that I'll say for my… Aged and possibly wise.
8:31
Tad Eggleston: And, but, but, but also not, not, like, professional opinion is, like.
8:36
Tad Eggleston: Mental health is not something that ever gets cured.
8:40
Tad Eggleston: It's something that is worked through, and you develop new processes, and it's annoying as fuck how the things that you
8:48
Tad Eggleston: You've been really good at, sometimes for decades.
8:52
Tad Eggleston: Can pop up and be something you have to deal with again.
8:56
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, the dangerous part is, like.
8:59
Tad Eggleston: Bing!
9:00
Raquelle: thinking that you've resolved it, and it's like, no. No, I mean.
9:03
Tad Eggleston: And I remember a time when I was You're, what, 25?
9:08
Raquelle: No, 29.
9:09
Tad Eggleston: 29, okay, then you might actually be older than my daughter.
9:13
Raquelle: Thank you.
9:14
Tad Eggleston: The math in my head.
9:15
Raquelle: people would be.
9:16
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, you got a year on my.
9:17
Raquelle: modern.
9:18
Tad Eggleston: You got a year on my daughter.
9:19
Raquelle: Oh, okay.
9:20
Tad Eggleston: But
9:23
Tad Eggleston: So I was probably a little younger than you, when one day in my therapist's office, I'm like, you're probably getting tired of the fact that
9:31
Tad Eggleston: I just… all the time, these things that we fixed, I keep…
9:39
Tad Eggleston: doing. He just looked at me, and he's like, we don't fix anything.
9:44
Raquelle: Yeah.
9:45
Raquelle: For real.
9:46
Tad Eggleston: We find ways to, to minimize reoccurrence. We… we learn, we learn strategies for… for… for making it through when… when… when it reoccurs anyway.
10:03
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
10:04
Tad Eggleston: This is not about fixing you, you're not broken.
10:09
Raquelle: Oh, wow. Yeah.
10:10
Tad Eggleston: That's the part that really struck me. He's like, you're not broken, you're just…
10:14
Tad Eggleston: You process in weird ways, and… and some of that is because of who you are.
10:20
Tad Eggleston: And some of that is because of the life that you lived, and… and…
10:26
Tad Eggleston: All of it is not something that can be, like.
10:30
Tad Eggleston: completely changed. It can… it requires awareness and… Mindful behavior.
10:42
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. You know?
10:45
Tad Eggleston: And… God, does it suck, because there's certain things that I, like… why can't I take a pill and have it be done? I take these pills! Oh, no! Oh, you're telling me the pills are just the level of the playing?
10:56
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
10:57
Tad Eggleston: What!
10:59
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, it's really…
11:01
Tad Eggleston: go away?
11:02
Raquelle: How, like…
11:04
Raquelle: I don't… I have to remind myself that it's, like, these, like, maladaptive coping mechanisms and behaviors are actually, like, genius ways that our bodies and minds,
11:20
Raquelle: Have, like, like, genius, like, systems to, like, for survival,
11:29
Tad Eggleston: I mean, maladaptive is only true in one sense.
11:34
Raquelle: Yeah.
11:35
Tad Eggleston: Because in another sense, you're still breathing, so they worked.
11:38
Raquelle: Yeah.
11:40
Tad Eggleston: You know what I mean?
11:42
Raquelle: Absolutely, absolutely.
11:43
Tad Eggleston: So I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna…
11:47
Tad Eggleston: just for the listeners, I'm gonna kinda… do the briefest possible synopsis of the first two parts of the book.
11:56
Tad Eggleston: and let you decide to what extent you want to elaborate, because this is a book that needs to be read. I think… I think you're somebody that needs to be talked to not as much.
12:09
Tad Eggleston: For, let's tell all the horrible stories, and then they don't have to look at them in the book.
12:15
Raquelle: Yeah.
12:17
Tad Eggleston: But, you know, the first part of the book you mentioned is about your mom, and your mom…
12:23
Tad Eggleston: Man, did I feel for your mom, because your mom… Your mom is almost like… the… stereotypical… Red-pilled.
12:42
Tad Eggleston: All of the conspiracies
12:45
Tad Eggleston: all of the stuff that Alex Jones or whoever says is, the water's turning you gay, but for $59.99, you can buy my pills that will prevent you from…
12:59
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. You know, like… She… she's the person that…
13:06
Tad Eggleston: somebody like me, who… I mean, I've grown up… I mean, like, there are parts of your experience with both your mom and dad that resonate with me, but at the same time, I'm like, I'm sitting there going, oh, but I'm so lucky that there's only this part that resonates, and that they're not…
13:23
Tad Eggleston: Because, you know, I grew up… Affluent, educated families, etc. So, like.
13:34
Tad Eggleston: The idea that somebody That there are people that… that…
13:40
Tad Eggleston: jump on… jumped on the satanic panic, that… that…
13:45
Tad Eggleston: But, like, the bleach bath blew my mind.
13:48
Tad Eggleston: You know, I'm sitting there going.
13:52
Tad Eggleston: But I have to remind myself that it's like, we know that these people exist.
13:57
Tad Eggleston: And, like, it's not their fault that they exist.
14:01
Raquelle: Yeah.
14:02
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, one of the things that I constantly remind myself, like.
14:10
Tad Eggleston: Particularly from the perspective of having both been a child and a parent now, is that, like.
14:18
Tad Eggleston: Generational trauma is a real thing.
14:20
Tad Eggleston: So whatever you got from your mom, I guarantee.
14:25
Tad Eggleston: like, what she got from her parents was… some level beyond that, because… because we all try to do better than we feel like we were raised, and I could see the ways that she was trying with you, even as I was, like, pulling my hair out, going, what on earth are you doing to your sweet little girl?
14:47
Raquelle: You know, That, like, really… honestly makes me, like, teary-eyed, because I think…
14:55
Raquelle: I… I wrote this book, like, and drew it, with so much anger. I was so angry.
15:04
Tad Eggleston: And you, like, I don't want to take any of that.
15:06
Raquelle: I know, I know, but it's like…
15:08
Tad Eggleston: It's totally justified anger.
15:10
Raquelle: I know, but, like, I… like.
15:14
Raquelle: in the process of making the book, I feel like I was able to
15:19
Raquelle: alleviate, like, a lot of that anger, and now.
15:22
Tad Eggleston: Right.
15:23
Raquelle: all I really have towards my mom is, like.
15:27
Raquelle: compassion. Like, I don't know if.
15:29
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
15:29
Raquelle: ready to, like… Cause I haven't spoken to her in, like, I don't know.
15:34
Tad Eggleston: I mean, sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do is not be there, so to speak.
15:38
Raquelle: Like…
15:39
Tad Eggleston: Don't think that because you feel the compassion, you have to go…
15:43
Tad Eggleston: Rekindle that relationship and save your mom.
15:46
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah. That's not…
15:48
Tad Eggleston: your job.
15:49
Raquelle: But I'm really…
15:50
Tad Eggleston: There's my armchair psychologist.
15:52
Raquelle: Yeah. Okay, yeah. Like, I don't know, I feel like with the compassion, like, I also struggle with, like, a lot of guilt, too, because I just, I don't know, I just…
16:03
Tad Eggleston: I mean, from reading your book, Don't. You were a kid.
16:06
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
16:07
Tad Eggleston: You were a kid.
16:08
Tad Eggleston: But it's like… And kids are kids.
16:11
Raquelle: is…
16:11
Tad Eggleston: Yeah… No, because, I mean… Two reasons. I mean, first of all, like, it's your life.
16:20
Raquelle: Yam.
16:21
Tad Eggleston: because it's part of her life, too, doesn't… doesn't mean that it's not your life and you don't own it, and it's not like you didn't protect her. Honestly, like, where I was gonna go next is…
16:30
Tad Eggleston: As crazy as your… mom was.
16:37
Tad Eggleston: And as difficult as that was, where I found myself infuriated is… your stepmom…
16:46
Tad Eggleston: who you don't name, you just do SM, so, like, you're protecting her through the wazoo.
16:52
Tad Eggleston: Not only may have been
16:56
Tad Eggleston: worse. I mean, absolutely was worse in a lot of ways.
17:01
Tad Eggleston: But… But your dad's behavior…
17:05
Tad Eggleston: made it that much worse. It's like, when the bleach baths are the safe home.
17:12
Raquelle: Yeah, no, that's literally how it felt. It just… I felt like there was nowhere to go, like…
17:19
Tad Eggleston: Right.
17:19
Raquelle: There wasn't.
17:21
Tad Eggleston: You know, when the bleach baths and the wacko cures and the middle of the night, here's the map, Raquelle, we're driving to where
17:33
Tad Eggleston: Jesus is telling me that I need to drive.
17:38
Tad Eggleston: It might represent the safe home.
17:41
Raquelle: Yeah.
17:42
Raquelle: Yeah.
17:44
Raquelle: That was love, like…
17:46
Tad Eggleston: Right, and there, for people listening, is like, that's the first almost two-thirds of this book, so be warned, and possibly just skip to the last third, because those are the fun stories. In fact, they're even called the fun stories, and…
18:01
Tad Eggleston: And, you know, I think you even acknowledged that, like, fun is a comparative term.
18:08
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
18:08
Tad Eggleston: But, but, like… I think I'm blown away at how much the comics medium is one… that…
18:20
Tad Eggleston: Allows for people to tell these stories. I… I…
18:27
Tad Eggleston: I'm a pretty well-read guy outside of comics as well.
18:31
Tad Eggleston: And…
18:32
Tad Eggleston: Well, it's been a long time since I called myself a movie buff, I'm aware of what's out there.
18:38
Tad Eggleston: I don't think this sort of raw memoir winds up in nearly as many places.
18:45
Tad Eggleston: And I wonder if some of that is just the economics.
18:50
Tad Eggleston: You know, costs a lot of money to make a movie.
18:58
Tad Eggleston: Books need to have long-term shelf life to make money.
19:02
Tad Eggleston: And while I think yours might.
19:08
Tad Eggleston: Again, by the nature of comics, there's… there's…
19:15
Tad Eggleston: I guess it's something that we forget, that, like, as much as we worry about the comics market dying and whatnot, like, the book market manages to continue going, despite the fact that, like.
19:27
Tad Eggleston: there are… Probably a hundred times as many books released in any given year as comics.
19:35
Tad Eggleston: You know, but that's also why a niche book
19:40
Tad Eggleston: Is that much harder to really… because it's got just this massive amount of…
19:46
Tad Eggleston: You know, if you made this as a prose book, it would go in a section with new releases from
19:52
Tad Eggleston: a dozen different psychiatrists, or, you know, I mean, like… The number of books that… hit similar…
20:02
Tad Eggleston: Itches, for lack of a better term, would just be much higher.
20:07
Tad Eggleston: So, so, so it would, it would kinda, it would kinda…
20:12
Tad Eggleston: there would need more to bring it out, whereas in comics, even though I can rattle off
20:19
Tad Eggleston: 4 or 5 that I think this goes into a category with, that have come out in the last few years. You know, I mean…
20:27
Tad Eggleston: That's 4 or 5… of a much smaller pool. Does that make sense?
20:34
Raquelle: Yes, it does.
20:34
Tad Eggleston: So there could be an economic side, but I think that there's also…
20:42
Raquelle: I think it's harder… it would be harder to watch as, like, a film. Like, I think that you can really…
20:51
Raquelle: See more of the comedy, through the drawing,
20:56
Tad Eggleston: Also, the way… the way the reader gets to pace it.
21:01
Tad Eggleston: That's one of the ways that the comedy can come out.
21:04
Raquelle: That's very true.
21:05
Tad Eggleston: And you can put two ideas on the page together.
21:09
Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's actually probably more than anything for both movies and prose, like… A page can have
21:18
Tad Eggleston: Absolutely heartbreakingness, but also comic relief.
21:23
Tad Eggleston: All kind of packaged together.
21:25
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Rather than having to… It was actually, Joe Christian Gill.
21:34
Tad Eggleston: adapted Ibram X. Kendi's stamped from the beginning.
21:37
Tad Eggleston: Which is… which is a, like, outstanding scholarly work on… how… how… Racism has both
21:48
Tad Eggleston: evolved and not evolved in the United States over the last, you know, 400 years.
21:56
Tad Eggleston: But I remember seeing an interview with Kendi asking why he'd done his graphic novel, and he's like, well, we're dealing with some really serious shit.
22:08
Tad Eggleston: And if you try to bring levity to that, in prose.
22:14
Tad Eggleston: like, there's no way to do that, Will. They're like, oh, you're joking about some really serious shit.
22:21
Raquelle: Yeah.
22:22
Tad Eggleston: But on a comic page, you can have the serious shit sit
22:26
Tad Eggleston: Beside the joke in a way where the joke
22:30
Tad Eggleston: Lifts a little bit of the weight without… Taking away the weight.
22:39
Raquelle: Yeah.
22:40
Tad Eggleston: And I think… I actually, like, to get into the technical stuff, you did that.
22:46
Tad Eggleston: I mean, particularly with your… with the… with the mom, segments?
22:53
Tad Eggleston: Your ability to do that was… outstanding. Thank you.
23:00
Tad Eggleston: Whether it was… Here, I gotta flip through pages in front of me.
23:09
Tad Eggleston: But, but, but whether, whether it was, like.
23:15
Tad Eggleston: You'd have the, the, the, the lists, or the…
23:21
Tad Eggleston: How this works, or you got into the… the…
23:25
Tad Eggleston: We got the theophosctic therapy, and the humping pillow, and the frequency machine, you know, the way that you would…
23:35
Tad Eggleston: Okay, here's my trauma, but now we're gonna step back.
23:39
Tad Eggleston: And look at… Not just, like, How my mom's brain was… wired wrong, but, like, the…
23:50
Tad Eggleston: wonderfully capitalist influence on that. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't just that she was wired wrong, it was that somebody was willing to say, hey, let me take your money to…
24:05
Tad Eggleston: increase your… or to… to… what's the word I'm looking for? To… to…
24:12
Tad Eggleston: firm up your bad wiring. Solidify your bad wiring. We can't have you having any doubts. You'll doubt it a lot more… a lot less if you've got a machine that…
24:25
Tad Eggleston: does something.
24:27
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, I'm really glad that comes through, because at the end of the day, she… my mother was really just a victim of capitalism, and, like, capitalism, and, like, the grotesque, like, excess, and just, like, capitalizing on…
24:44
Raquelle: People's fears and sickness and,
24:50
Tad Eggleston: Here's… I mean, between a lack of…
24:54
Tad Eggleston: easy mental health services in the United States, more so in…
24:59
Tad Eggleston: rural areas, more so in red states, between…
25:07
Tad Eggleston: God, we're the richest country in the world, and, like, the next 30 richest company… countries all have socialized medicine.
25:15
Raquelle: Yeah.
25:18
Tad Eggleston: I don't understand how we're not embarrassed by that, yeah.
25:22
Tad Eggleston: Like, like, I, I, it, like…
25:27
Tad Eggleston: We're the richest country in the world, and, like, the next 30 pay for your education through college.
25:36
Raquelle: Yeah.
25:37
Tad Eggleston: Again, I just don't understand.
25:40
Tad Eggleston: We're having fights over what… what comics can be in your school library.
25:45
Raquelle: Yeah.
25:48
Tad Eggleston: But… But… not… I mean… And those… and I kind of like…
25:56
Tad Eggleston: I mean, you start hitting on that stuff at the very end.
26:00
Tad Eggleston: Which makes me really curious as to where you're going next. Because it seems like your inner activist has been…
26:08
Tad Eggleston: awakened.
26:09
Tad Eggleston: Even if it's still looking for directions to be pointed.
26:13
Tad Eggleston: thumb.
26:15
Raquelle: I… I feel like, in a lot of ways, this book helped me, like… like I said.
26:22
Raquelle: It helped me put to bed a lot of the things that were…
26:27
Raquelle: gnawing at me, and that I just… I couldn't… I couldn't, like…
26:33
Raquelle: I'm… I'm, currently, like, on Suboxone for opioid use disorder, and, like, I'm actually, like, thinking of, like, titrating down. It's like, for the first time in my life, like, I feel like I can,
26:46
Raquelle: I might be able to, like, live without, like, I mean, Suboxone isn't really a substance, but it's like, like, I could…
26:55
Raquelle: I could actually be, like, confident enough, In myself to, like, Live without, like, that,
27:04
Raquelle: like, I don't know, crutch, but I don't know, I… Just…
27:09
Tad Eggleston: Just keep lots, lots of resources.
27:12
Raquelle: Yes, yes.
27:14
Raquelle: I have a lot of people who are helping me with it, and
27:19
Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's like part father, part teacher in me kicking in, because on one side, I like people to find ways to do everything.
27:30
Tad Eggleston: on their own, the best that they can, in the way that makes themselves happiest. And on the other hand, it's like.
27:37
Tad Eggleston: Needing help and having people look out for you is not a bad thing.
27:43
Raquelle: That's very true, and I've discovered that. Like, I have a… I have a big community who's, like, supporting me, and I'm very grateful.
27:51
Tad Eggleston: Support systems are incredibly important.
27:54
Raquelle: Yes, yes. But, like, I,
28:01
Raquelle: But, like, I feel like now I can talk about things that, like, Like, I can…
28:08
Raquelle: I can talk about things that really… that are…
28:13
Raquelle: Really core to my value system, and…
28:19
Raquelle: I'm… not to say that, like, bimbo Agent prop isn't core to my value system, but, like, I think talking about, like, politics and, like.
28:27
Raquelle: The, like, struggle for collective liberation and, just, like.
28:37
Raquelle: I… I hope to do more, comics like that. And also, comics…
28:50
Raquelle: That are… that touch on…
28:53
Raquelle: mental health, which is kind of one and the same with the bimbo Agent prop, but like…
28:58
Tad Eggleston: There's a lot of mental health in this one.
29:01
Raquelle: Yeah, there is, there is. But, like, I guess, I don't know, like, I…
29:04
Tad Eggleston: Maybe more of the funds.
29:05
Raquelle: So, really.
29:06
Tad Eggleston: It's more, more of the, this is where you can get stories.
29:10
Raquelle: like, like, I guess maybe the intersection of mental health and, like, and…
29:17
Raquelle: and the politics of mental health, like, I guess.
29:20
Tad Eggleston: Yeah?
29:21
Raquelle: Just, like, basically what we've been talking about, about, like,
29:24
Tad Eggleston: That makes sense.
29:25
Raquelle: concepts like healthcare in excess, and… Right.
29:32
Raquelle: But who knows? I mean, I…
29:35
Raquelle: I think there's also… I have a lot of stories, like, that…
29:41
Raquelle: I would love to tell that just… that touch on, like, infatuation and, like, the, like, false concepts of, like, love in the aftermath of, like, living through
29:53
Raquelle: like…
29:54
Tad Eggleston: Those are also important stories.
29:56
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
29:58
Tad Eggleston: You know.
29:59
Raquelle: But, like, I also feel… like, I guess I feel a lot… freer to… Do you create work that…
30:09
Raquelle: I really want to create, rather than have to create, because I think that Bimbo Agent Prophet was like, I have to… I have to, make this book, like, or else I'm never going to be able to…
30:22
Raquelle: move on with my life, like, I,
30:26
Raquelle: And I think there's something really powerful in that urgency, and I think…
30:31
Raquelle: That's also part of why the book has resonated with so many people.
30:36
Tad Eggleston: Right.
30:37
Tad Eggleston: tell me about… how the book came about, because the one thing that you don't…
30:50
Tad Eggleston: really detail in the book.
30:53
Tad Eggleston: And it's often a hard thing to detail, like, I know from my own experience, like, my wife will regularly ask me, you know.
31:03
Tad Eggleston: How are you able to look at
31:05
Tad Eggleston: the positive in this? How are you able to look at both sides? And I'll sit there going.
31:12
Tad Eggleston: I know what you're talking about in terms of not being able to, because I remember being like that, and I don't remember when I stopped being like that. It might have been a process, it might have been a switch somewhere that I don't remember when it happened. So my dual questions here are, like.
31:29
Tad Eggleston: Because what I don't see in the book…
31:35
Tad Eggleston: is your turning point. Your, your, your point from…
31:39
Tad Eggleston: From, oh my god, this world is just…
31:43
Tad Eggleston: something that I have to survive.
31:46
Tad Eggleston: to… this world is something that I get to contribute to.
31:51
Tad Eggleston: And again, like, I know from my own experience, I can't always pinpoint that.
31:58
Tad Eggleston: So my bigger question is, like.
32:01
Tad Eggleston: I mean, obviously, if you have a good answer for that one, I'd love to hear it, but my bigger question is, did that come
32:10
Tad Eggleston: Before, after, or through doing, They'll work on the book.
32:16
Raquelle: I think that's a really great question. I…
32:19
Raquelle: I think it came after doing the book, because honestly, I think…
32:26
Raquelle: Like, this is very morbid, but, like, I kinda didn't.
32:33
Raquelle: something that I've been reckoning with right now in my life is that I didn't really see a future, like, to my life, after the book. Like.
32:44
Raquelle: And I think that's part of why I feel… I felt so, like, free to, explore all these things and to, like, bear everything,
32:56
Raquelle: because I… I really didn't think about the after the book, and…
33:02
Raquelle: I think that's something that I… have only…
33:07
Raquelle: just now really reckoned with, like, and I don't know if that's just, like, the chronic suicidality or, what, but it's like,
33:20
Raquelle: like…
33:22
Raquelle: the I… something that… like… like, I… I was… like, the, the day of my book launch, I was, like, paralyzed with fear because I,
33:35
Raquelle: Just the idea of people reading this book is, like.
33:39
Raquelle: it just scared the shit out of me. Like, I was just so… like, and I was like, why didn't I think about this before? And, like, there was part of me that was like…
33:50
Raquelle: do I regret making this book? But it's like, I don't regret making this book, because…
33:56
Raquelle: like, I think it's good, and…
34:00
Tad Eggleston: It is good.
34:00
Raquelle: of the,
34:01
Tad Eggleston: He should be.
34:02
Raquelle: like… Yeah, thank you. But I… Yeah, I really only…
34:10
Raquelle: I think saw a future for myself, Fairly recently, and…
34:18
Raquelle: I think part of that has been just, like.
34:21
Raquelle: Going back to therapy, and, like…
34:24
Raquelle: like, I recently did have, like, a bit of, like, a mental health crisis, back in April, and…
34:32
Raquelle: like, which brought me back to therapy. I'm in, like, dialectical behavioral therapy now, but, like,
34:41
Raquelle: I… Yeah, it's been very… very…
34:50
Raquelle: profound, beautiful, scary, and… I'm…
34:56
Raquelle: I think I'm grateful to be in the place that I am now. But yeah, I think it definitely happened…
35:03
Raquelle: after the book, and I think part of it was… Through making the book,
35:09
Raquelle: But I think it just… it's very weird to me that I didn't really conceive of…
35:16
Raquelle: I wonder how this will feel, like, whenever people read this book and ask me about it,
35:22
Tad Eggleston: I mean…
35:22
Raquelle: honestly hasn't been horrible, like, it's been fine. Right, I mean, you brought up…
35:27
Tad Eggleston: You, you brought up
35:29
Tad Eggleston: and I have way too much experience with this. I forget exactly how you phrased it, but I'm just gonna call it…
35:37
Tad Eggleston: Chronic suicidal ideation.
35:40
Tad Eggleston: I, I, I, I actually regularly have, have compared Suicidal tendencies to alcoholism.
35:49
Tad Eggleston: Like, you never actually get over that.
35:52
Tad Eggleston: Like, as soon as you've opened the door in your brain.
35:56
Tad Eggleston: To the idea that it's an option, like, Closing that door…
36:04
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I can't speak for everybody, but I know that I've, you know, Never closed it.
36:11
Raquelle: Yeah.
36:11
Tad Eggleston: I think it's probably been 20 years since I was ever in REAL danger.
36:21
Tad Eggleston: Right.
36:21
Raquelle: That's great.
36:23
Tad Eggleston: But…
36:24
Raquelle: Alhamdulillah.
36:27
Tad Eggleston: But I don't know if it's been 20 days since the last time it, like, floated through my head.
36:33
Raquelle: Yeah.
36:33
Tad Eggleston: Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.
36:35
Raquelle: No, that absolutely.
36:36
Tad Eggleston: And sorry, Mom, don't tell Kelly.
36:40
Tad Eggleston: Okay, my wife kinda knows, but she doesn't listen to all the podcasts. Mom does, so you don't need to go scaring my wife. I'm okay.
36:48
Raquelle: Aww, that's sweet.
36:51
Raquelle: Yeah, it's almost… it is almost like, an addiction, like, it's… it's… it's… it's… I… because…
36:58
Tad Eggleston: I mean…
36:58
Raquelle: It's… it's chronic, it's chronic.
37:00
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, I always think of a line in… there's an Ani DeFranco song called Fuel.
37:06
Tad Eggleston: It has a line that… they say that alcoholics are always alcoholics, even when they've been dry as my lips for years, even when they're on a small desert island 2,000 miles from a place to buy beer. And it's like, yep, that's how I feel about being suicidal.
37:24
Raquelle: Yeah.
37:24
Tad Eggleston: But, like… The day that my first goal, getting out of bed in the morning, isn't…
37:33
Tad Eggleston: To survive, to be breathing, to get into bed at night.
37:39
Tad Eggleston: is problematic.
37:41
Tad Eggleston: You know, that has to be my first goal.
37:45
Tad Eggleston: You know…
37:50
Tad Eggleston: So, and I went on a little bit of a tangent there, but I guess… combine that with all of the trauma, and… and, like, you
38:00
Tad Eggleston: I felt it reading it, and it seems to be kind of what you're telling me. You know, you were writing and drawing for your life, so, like, it is, like, the most insidious part.
38:15
Tad Eggleston: of… trauma… Depression and suicidal ideation is, like, it can take all thoughts of future away from us.
38:26
Raquelle: Yeah.
38:27
Tad Eggleston: And, and sometimes, sometimes for the better, because, like…
38:33
Tad Eggleston: there was definitely a time in my life where I could always imagine the future, I could just never imagine a good one.
38:40
Raquelle: Mmm, yeah.
38:42
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. And if you gotta choose between imagining hell…
38:47
Tad Eggleston: for God knows how many years.
38:50
Tad Eggleston: and not imagining ANYTHING, Yeah. That seems like a step up.
38:54
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
38:57
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Particularly because, at least for me, one of the big…
39:03
Tad Eggleston: big parts of my process is I try not to think…
39:08
Tad Eggleston: and imagine too specifically about the future. I allow myself to dream, even the crazy Y-y-you know.
39:17
Tad Eggleston: President of the United States, or whatever dreams.
39:20
Raquelle: Yeah.
39:21
Tad Eggleston: You know?
39:23
Tad Eggleston: I certainly ponder things that I'd like to do.
39:27
Tad Eggleston: And I take action when I see opportunities to do them, etc. But… but what I… one of the things, again, for me anyway, is, like, I find it dangerous to start going, oh, I must do this.
39:44
Raquelle: Mmm.
39:45
Tad Eggleston: Because it not only… Not only carries the huge risk of Okay, if, if…
39:54
Tad Eggleston: or I must do this, anything that's, like, more than a week out.
39:59
Raquelle: Or… oh, okay, okay.
40:02
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. I must do this in terms of…
40:05
Tad Eggleston: shoveling snow, which is my least favorite thing to do. It's the only chore that you do that…
40:11
Tad Eggleston: Would do itself if you just waited long enough.
40:14
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
40:15
Raquelle: That's hilarious.
40:17
Tad Eggleston: You lived out in Texas, California for a while, so you don't get this the.
40:23
Raquelle: Yeah, I get this.
40:23
Tad Eggleston: in Chicagoland.
40:24
Raquelle: I don't.
40:28
Tad Eggleston: Snow does melt!
40:30
Raquelle: Yeah.
40:33
Tad Eggleston: Sometimes not for a long time.
40:38
Tad Eggleston: But, like, I mean, when I'm talking about, like, must-do, I'm talking about, like.
40:44
Tad Eggleston: I think there's a danger in, like, a 5-year plan that isn't more of a guideline.
40:50
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
40:52
Tad Eggleston: You know, because, like, so many of the things that have been most beneficial to my life
41:00
Tad Eggleston: and the best parts of my life, I've all but fallen into. You know, I acted when given the opportunity.
41:07
Tad Eggleston: But, like, if I was too rigid on, this is… this is what I'm doing to get to this point, I might have passed up the opportunity, because I went, oh, well…
41:17
Tad Eggleston: That just gets in the way of my plan.
41:19
Raquelle: Yeah.
41:20
Tad Eggleston: They're going, oh, wait a minute, maybe this is…
41:22
Tad Eggleston: This is better than my plan.
41:24
Raquelle: Yeah.
41:25
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
41:25
Raquelle: Yeah, that's something that I have, been sort of struggling with, but, just like…
41:35
Raquelle: I never really thought of myself as, like, a person who… needed control, but I…
41:44
Raquelle: I don't know, I… I think…
41:46
Tad Eggleston: It's nice to control something.
41:47
Raquelle: It is! It is!
41:49
Raquelle: It's a very… it can be very, like,
41:53
Raquelle: it can scratch that, like, itch of, like, things just, like, going according to plan. But it's, like, you're just, setting yourself up for, like, a crash-out, or just, like, like, you know.
42:07
Tad Eggleston: Well, and also…
42:07
Raquelle: Need that sort of… You need flexibility, yeah.
42:11
Tad Eggleston: Worst for me is when I plan something to the T, and then it all goes off perfectly, and I'm done, and rather than being happy or satisfied or whatever, I just feel like, well, I planned it, and it worked, and that's what was supposed to happen.
42:25
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
42:26
Tad Eggleston: It's like, goddammit, why can't I have some joy here?
42:29
Raquelle: Yeah, no, that's… that is so, relatable. That is… that is very relatable.
42:36
Tad Eggleston: Everybody's… everybody's, like, patting on your shoulder, you did an amazing thing. I'm like, what do you mean? I made a plan, I executed it. Anybody could have done that.
42:44
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:46
Raquelle: Yeah.
42:50
Tad Eggleston: Human beings are weird animals.
42:53
Raquelle: This is true, this is true.
42:55
Tad Eggleston: Brains are funny?
42:58
Raquelle: Yes.
43:00
Tad Eggleston: What made you decide?
43:06
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'll… and again, you…
43:10
Tad Eggleston: reads like you were writing and drawing for your life, but… but I still imagine that there… I mean, you had to pitch the book at some point. Hell, the prelude is about having had the book purchased and doing all sorts of cleaning rather than drawing.
43:26
Tad Eggleston: Which my wife would relate to. That's definitely…
43:31
Raquelle: Yeah, it's very weird, like, I hadn't ever experienced.
43:33
Tad Eggleston: He hates cleaning, except… except when…
43:36
Tad Eggleston: Except when she, like, is avoiding something else.
43:41
Raquelle: Yes, like, I don't…
43:43
Raquelle: I, like, I am… I am not the cleanest person. Don't let my roommate… I've been… I've been, like, my… I just had a roommate, move in, and I've been on my best behavior. I've been cleaning, like, and I hope that… I think whenever I'm living with others, it makes me.
44:00
Tad Eggleston: It is a motivator. Yes.
44:01
Raquelle: Yes.
44:02
Tad Eggleston: Because then it's not just a, oh, I'm supposed to be clean, it's a, I need to be respectful and…
44:11
Tad Eggleston: compassionate towards… towards these people sharing space with me. Exactly.
44:16
Raquelle: Exactly. Yeah, and I honestly, I…
44:20
Raquelle: like, I think growing up, the way that I did, I actually was just talking about this with my sister, because I was talking about her… talking about how I got, like, a roommate, and she was like, remember whenever, you had that roommate, and, like, you left the dish, like, a dish in, like, the sink for, like, 2 weeks? And it's like, yes, I do remember that, okay? For some… and I, like, couldn't conceive of, like.
44:44
Raquelle: why the roommate was so upset, like, and I was like, and my sister was like, well, I mean, it's the way that we were raised, like, we weren't really raised with, like, a whole lot of, like, those types of…
44:55
Tad Eggleston: Right?
44:55
Raquelle: That type of, like, structure or whatever, like, there was just so much, like, filth growing up, and
45:04
Raquelle: I don't know, it's… yeah, I guess I'm just talking about… I'm just on a tangent. No, tangents.
45:10
Tad Eggleston: Tangents are cool. Tangents are what we do.
45:12
Tad Eggleston: But… but yeah, no, I mean, I get that, I'm not…
45:19
Tad Eggleston: One of the things that, that, that, like, caught my wife off guard
45:24
Tad Eggleston: early in our relationship, I was still working senior care, so it was hard for me to, like, travel to see family with her when she did, because I just couldn't get the time off. So she'd, like, go back to see her family in South Dakota for a week, and…
45:38
Tad Eggleston: I'd stay here working. And, like…
45:41
Tad Eggleston: She'd get home, and she's like, you didn't do any dishes. I'm like, well, yeah, but how many dishes are there? And she'd go…
45:48
Tad Eggleston: A plate, a fork, a spoon, a cup, and a bowl.
45:54
Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, so, so no, I didn't do any dishes, but I didn't really make any either.
46:02
Tad Eggleston: Because that had totally become my thing, living alone, is like.
46:06
Raquelle: Yeah.
46:07
Tad Eggleston: I do dishes when I actually decided to cook enough that there was anywhere near a lot of dishes, and if I used a plate, I'd rinse it off, and then I'd use it again for the next meal.
46:18
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I think…
46:20
Raquelle: It's weird, because it's like… it's like… but it's like a whole other story whenever you're… you're living with someone, and it's like… like, I don't know, it's… I… I think I'm getting to the point where I have enough self-respect to, like,
46:37
Raquelle: like, cause for me, I don't know if it's… if it's the same with you, but it's like, it is…
46:43
Raquelle: it does come down to, like, respecting myself enough to keep my area clean, and, like.
46:49
Tad Eggleston: Sometimes.
46:50
Raquelle: I'm really working on that, and
46:53
Tad Eggleston: For me, a lot of the time, it's like, I don't think of the thing that's not right in front of me.
46:58
Raquelle: Yeah.
46:59
Tad Eggleston: I just literally don't. That was another thing my wife… I mean, so much of good relationships is communication, communication, some more communication, and, like, figuring out
47:13
Tad Eggleston: how you communicate and how each other thinks. Like, it was a game changer the day my wife and I figured out that I think in words, and she thinks in pictures.
47:22
Raquelle: Oh, wow.
47:23
Tad Eggleston: And, like… And, like, the extremes of that, even. Like, I…
47:29
Tad Eggleston: Cannot make a picture in my head to save my life.
47:34
Tad Eggleston: you know, I mean, initially, she's like, so you just see the words in the… in your head? I'm like, no, no, no, you don't get it.
47:40
Tad Eggleston: I can't see things in my head. I… the best way to describe it is I hear the words in my head.
47:47
Tad Eggleston: Whereas she thinks in, like, swirls of color that sometimes become pictures.
47:51
Raquelle: Yeah.
47:52
Tad Eggleston: So, so right, right there, it's like, oh, so we really have to make certain that we're understanding each other.
48:00
Tad Eggleston: You know. But then the other thing is, like, I…
48:04
Tad Eggleston: I'll worry about a lot of things.
48:07
Tad Eggleston: But, like, only when, like, something has triggered the worry and the thought and the whatnot, and I'm pretty good at stopping once I've decided, okay, I've thought about this as much as I can think about it without new information.
48:21
Raquelle: Nice.
48:22
Raquelle: That's a good school to have.
48:24
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I think it's just the autism, because that's not one that I remember being different at any point.
48:30
Raquelle: Oh, okay.
48:32
Tad Eggleston: You know, so, like, it took her a while to get used to, like, as soon as she went out of town, she's like, oh, I miss you, you know, do you miss me? I'm like, no, not really.
48:44
Tad Eggleston: It's like, nothing personal, I just… you're not here, so I don't think about you. That's true of my children, too.
48:52
Raquelle: That's so funny.
48:53
Tad Eggleston: When they're in front of me, they're the most important thing in the world, and there will be things that… like, you know that you're really important to me, because there are more things that will remind me of you when you're not here.
49:04
Raquelle: Okay, yeah. That's interesting.
49:06
Tad Eggleston: But if I'm just sitting reading a comic book, and it's not one that reminds me of you, then no, you're nowhere near my head.
49:14
Raquelle: Wow.
49:16
Raquelle: Yeah.
49:17
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, I remember even before my wife, like, having a conversation with a friend of mine, you know, right after they'd had children, and we're talking about, like, how do you handle the fact that you're a weekend dad? Like, every time my kid's away at
49:33
Tad Eggleston: preschool, all I can think about is what's going wrong? I'm like, I don't really think about them at all when they're not with me.
49:39
Tad Eggleston: I'm like, you what? And I'm like…
49:41
Tad Eggleston: What am I supposed to think about?
49:46
Raquelle: That's so funny.
49:51
Tad Eggleston: Not like I don't love them.
49:53
Raquelle: Yeah, I know. Just don't think about that. Yeah, yeah.
49:56
Tad Eggleston: I think about them a lot when they're in front of me.
49:59
Raquelle: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.
50:03
Raquelle: I think I'm… I don't know, I haven't really thought…
50:08
Raquelle: all that much about it, but I think I do… like,
50:13
Raquelle: I think… I ruminate on so many things all the time.
50:17
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
50:17
Raquelle: And so, I think I'm different in that way, and yeah.
50:22
Tad Eggleston: I ruminate on global problems.
50:24
Raquelle: Oh, okay, yeah.
50:27
Tad Eggleston: But I also read a ton about global problems, so, like, the ruminating about global problems often
50:33
Tad Eggleston: it's not only in front of me, but I'm always adding new information.
50:37
Raquelle: Mmm.
50:38
Tad Eggleston: And then it's roommate until I've done what I can with new information.
50:44
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, that's something I'm working on right now, about just…
50:49
Raquelle: There's… there's never a point where I'm like…
50:55
Raquelle: I… I've thought enough about this. It's always just… Oh, oh in.
51:01
Tad Eggleston: I guess, I guess I should put it as it's very rarely that I reach a point where I've thought enough about.
51:08
Raquelle: Oh, okay.
51:09
Tad Eggleston: It's more, I have these questions. Until I have the time, energy, or they drop into my lap to start answering some of these questions. We've gotten as far as… so it's like pausing the game and playing a different game.
51:23
Raquelle: Okay, okay.
51:26
Tad Eggleston: You know, it's like, okay, I hit the stopping point here.
51:33
Tad Eggleston: Now let's play with the cat.
51:35
Raquelle: Aww.
51:37
Tad Eggleston: You wanna say hi, Eddie?
51:39
Tad Eggleston: The official 22 Panels cat has just shown up.
51:42
Raquelle: Aww. What a baby. It's just a baby!
51:46
Tad Eggleston: no, he's a brat, is what he is, but he's good with my granddaughter.
51:52
Raquelle: I wonder what… I have a cat, too. Well, I… she makes an appearance in the book, her name's Lily, yeah.
51:59
Tad Eggleston: I did see that. We have 4 cats, but only one that ever shows up for the podcast.
52:05
Raquelle: Aww.
52:06
Tad Eggleston: Four cats and a dog.
52:08
Raquelle: Aww.
52:09
Tad Eggleston: But only one that's really a brat. But also so good with my granddaughter that, like, I forgive him for everything.
52:17
Raquelle: My sister has, 3 weenie dogs, and, it was so funny, because, my sister recently got the book, and she's…
52:26
Raquelle: Reading it, and we looked at a page together, because, like, the three weenie dogs make an appearance in, like, the preface, or the
52:37
Raquelle: prologue.
52:38
Tad Eggleston: I think I remember that, yeah.
52:40
Raquelle: And, what's this?
53:00
Tad Eggleston: Everything okay?
53:02
Raquelle: There's…
53:08
Raquelle: There. Okay.
53:11
Raquelle: An alarm went off, but yeah, the, I don't know if you could hear that.
53:17
Tad Eggleston: I couldn't.
53:18
Raquelle: uncomfortable.
53:18
Tad Eggleston: Initially, I'm like, oh, have you gone old school and have, like, a non-smartphone? I'm like, no, that's a remote. I can't figure out what it's doing.
53:29
Raquelle: Yeah, it's like these lights that are… that also have, like, an alarm,
53:34
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
53:34
Raquelle: I don't know. But anyway, yeah, like, the three weenie dogs make an appearance in the book, and we were looking at the page together, and I was like, I can't…
53:44
Raquelle: tell which one is which weenie dog, and she was able to figure out, which one, because, like, one of them is, like, super short, and I drew one of them super short, and
53:55
Raquelle: I don't know. Yeah, they're… they're sweethearts. I miss them. I really miss them whenever we weren't talking, too.
54:02
Tad Eggleston: So, so how… Is it…
54:12
Tad Eggleston: Reading through, or having… having people who…
54:17
Tad Eggleston: Our characters, if not huge ones, because, like, the big characters are mom and dad and stepmom.
54:24
Tad Eggleston: But… like, how is it to have your sister read the book? I mean, was that…
54:30
Raquelle: I was really… I was worried about it, and… I've…
54:36
Raquelle: I've, like, texted her a couple times, like, intermittently, to be like, so, like, what do you think? What do you think? And she's been really supportive, she…
54:46
Raquelle: Let me see… She sent me some texts, because we didn't really grow up together,
54:57
Raquelle: for the most part, we… we sometimes, like, I… like I said, I… I, I lived with my mom, for most of my childhood, and she didn't… she visited my mom sometimes, but for the most part, she was, living with my dad, and,
55:14
Raquelle: and I sometimes visited my dad's house while I was living with my mom, so I saw her, but, there were, like.
55:22
Raquelle: long stretches where, like, I didn't see, my sister Christelle at all. And so there are some parts of my childhood that I didn't even realize that she didn't know about, but,
55:34
Tad Eggleston: We always assume that the people around us know everything about us.
55:38
Raquelle: Yeah.
55:38
Tad Eggleston: At some point, we have to learn that, oh, wait, I didn't tell you, and you weren't there. It doesn't just…
55:45
Tad Eggleston: Seep through the walls.
55:47
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, she… she told me,
55:51
Raquelle: she sent me a text that said, I know you're not as connected to these memories anymore, but I'm sorry for how lonely you were, and she was like, I didn't know how isolated mom made you, and
56:04
Raquelle: Then she said my, she really likes my medical illustrations. But…
56:12
Raquelle: Yeah, and I was just like, yeah, I was…
56:15
Raquelle: I was, very lonely growing up, but…
56:20
Raquelle: Yeah, it's been interesting,
56:23
Raquelle: I'm… I'm hope… hope… I… I never want my mom to see the book, and I never want my dad or my stepmom to see the book,
56:33
Tad Eggleston: I… I will say that based on…
56:38
Tad Eggleston: Based on your depictions of them, I don't imagine that they will run into it in their…
56:45
Tad Eggleston: course of their natural lives, the only way that they would possibly see it is if somebody decided to bring it to their attention.
56:52
Raquelle: Yes, I agree.
56:53
Tad Eggleston: So,
56:57
Tad Eggleston: I wouldn't worry too much about it. I also, like, if they wind up seeing it because somebody brought it to their attention, well, like, they chose to live a life where somebody had to bring to their attention.
57:08
Raquelle: Yeah.
57:08
Tad Eggleston: Their daughter's critically acclaimed book. What does that say?
57:16
Raquelle: Yeah, my sister, she told me, She was like,
57:23
Raquelle: I mean, mom, like… like, because I was… I was particularly worried about my mom seeing it, because I… I just… like I depict in the book, I… I worry about her still, like, I feel guilt,
57:36
Tad Eggleston: Which, I mean, that's… like, I can't emphasize enough, you don't have anything to feel guilty about.
57:44
Raquelle: Well, thank you.
57:46
Tad Eggleston: But that doesn't mean that we're… Oh, God. Oh my god.
57:51
Tad Eggleston: I'm certain that we could both go through all sorts of things that we feel guilty about, that we know we shouldn't feel guilty about, which is why I'm just leaving it. You don't have anything to feel guilty about.
58:03
Tad Eggleston: Which doesn't mean that, like, there isn't something…
58:08
Tad Eggleston: Noble and kind of sweet about the fact that…
58:14
Tad Eggleston: You still worry and have compassion for somebody
58:19
Tad Eggleston: Who clearly caused you a lot of pain.
58:21
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
58:24
Tad Eggleston: That's… but that's also human. That's part of being a person, it's certainly part of being a good person, but, like, you've starred reviews in Kirkus and Publishers Weekly.
58:36
Tad Eggleston: so even if you're not in… inside of… and as soon as you have star reviews in those places, that means that I guarantee you that if we started really digging.
58:45
Tad Eggleston: You know, there's been a blurb in…
58:50
Tad Eggleston: So many of the magazines that you can get at the front of the supermarket.
58:55
Raquelle: Right.
58:56
Tad Eggleston: As soon as… I mean, I can't guarantee I'm not going through your press clippings right now, I just know how the comics world works. Like, if you're not superheroes, the road to people finding out about it, if they're not wired in
59:11
Tad Eggleston: Comics-wise.
59:12
Tad Eggleston: is Publishers Weekly and Kirkus, and both of them
59:17
Tad Eggleston: Have not only reviewed you, but given you a starred review.
59:21
Tad Eggleston: w-which… like… I mean, this is just my way of saying, like.
59:30
Tad Eggleston: I understand not wanting your parents to see it, but if your parents see it at this point, like…
59:36
Tad Eggleston: And their immediate thoughts aren't, oh my god.
59:40
Tad Eggleston: my daughter did this wonderful thing, and it sucks that I,
59:44
Tad Eggleston: Inspired it the way I inspired it, but maybe I need to rethink my life? Well, fuck em.
59:51
Raquelle: Thank you.
59:55
Tad Eggleston: Because, like… And I say this as somebody who, like, regularly gets myself in trouble with
1:00:04
Tad Eggleston: Friends and family for… for defending parents.
1:00:07
Tad Eggleston: Doing things that… Aren't necessarily indefensible, but… but…
1:00:13
Tad Eggleston: Are certainly, like, you can only defend them by reminding them that, look, parenting is hard, there's no roadmap.
1:00:21
Tad Eggleston: And, like…
1:00:24
Tad Eggleston: Every parent is a reflection of their own parents, so, like, all your trauma, they probably have that too.
1:00:31
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:00:31
Tad Eggleston: Oh my god.
1:00:32
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:00:35
Tad Eggleston: But… but… but there's limits.
1:00:38
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:00:38
Tad Eggleston: There's limits. And, like, knowing that doesn't mean that you have to fix them.
1:00:42
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:00:43
Tad Eggleston: Knowing that and having compassion doesn't mean… so, like.
1:00:49
Raquelle: Well, I appreciate that.
1:00:51
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
1:00:52
Tad Eggleston: I need to stop being armchair psychiatrist slash flash.
1:00:57
Tad Eggleston: You're reminding me of, like, My students and my kids and, and, and… falling into protective fatherland.
1:01:10
Tad Eggleston: So, so let's, let's, let's shift gears a little bit. Another one of my favorite questions to ask.
1:01:16
Tad Eggleston: Give me your comics… biography.
1:01:21
Tad Eggleston: Not your bibliography, which, I mean, first of all, it's relatively short, but… but…
1:01:28
Tad Eggleston: but your biography. I mean, you hit some of it in the book, but, like, What?
1:01:35
Tad Eggleston: What do you remember… reading, youngest, what…
1:01:40
Tad Eggleston: made you start wanting to make comics? What comics have you read that, like, changed the way you looked at comics? What…
1:01:48
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, what comics have shaped you? I mean, we know all about how your parents have shaped you, but I'm certain that comics have also shaped you, so talk about some of the comics that have shaped you.
1:01:59
Raquelle: Well, I mean, my early experience with comics, is a little embarrassing and kind of, like, sparse, but I… I grew up reading
1:02:12
Raquelle: honestly, a lot of Garfield comics, and.
1:02:16
Tad Eggleston: There's nothing embarrassing about reading Garfield.
1:02:19
Raquelle: the… the funny pages, I… I would always, like.
1:02:22
Tad Eggleston: Funny pages are important.
1:02:24
Raquelle: Yeah, and then, and besides that, I read a lot of chick tracks, growing up. I… I remember, like, my mom would have just, like, boxes and boxes of them, and she would give them out to people as, like.
1:02:39
Tad Eggleston: Which, honestly, like, this is where I was introduced to Chick Tracks.
1:02:43
Raquelle: Oh, really?
1:02:44
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so… so why don't… describe Chick Tracks for our listeners, because, like, I wasn't at all surprised at their…
1:02:54
Tad Eggleston: existence, so… but I didn't have a name for them.
1:02:58
Raquelle: Yeah, they're basically… I… my friend, referred to them as this, and I think it really encapsulates what they are, except maybe not, but, like, evangelical Christian zines, they sort of have that feel where they're, like, a…
1:03:17
Raquelle: They're printed on newsprint, and, they are…
1:03:22
Raquelle: Very, palm-sized, and
1:03:28
Raquelle: They're, like, these little rectangular, booklets that have a very consistent, story arc, where a character…
1:03:42
Raquelle: Either gets saved and is, like,
1:03:48
Raquelle: Saved from eternal damnation, or most… most of the time, like, most frequently,
1:03:57
Raquelle: has an error in their ways, and then, dies, and then goes to hell, and is tortured for all eternity. And, there's, like.
1:04:08
Raquelle: The guy who made them, originally is Jack, Chick. He was, like, this,
1:04:18
Raquelle: I think he… yeah, yeah, right, he was,
1:04:22
Raquelle: He started making them in the 60s, and he was sort of, like, inspired
1:04:27
Raquelle: Like, they were sort of made to evangelize, to, like,
1:04:34
Raquelle: The type of audience, like, that we're…
1:04:39
Raquelle: like, they're basically a poor imitation of, I think, underground comics, in my, like, view. He was trying to, like, evangelize to, like, hippies and, stuff like that.
1:04:50
Tad Eggleston: They also seem formatted a lot like Tijuana Bibles, so I wonder if it was deliberately…
1:04:57
Tad Eggleston: Let's… let's hand somebody something that they think is gonna be pornographic that is instead.
1:05:04
Raquelle: Oh, yeah.
1:05:05
Tad Eggleston: Let me save you.
1:05:07
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:05:09
Raquelle: I wonder, but he… yeah, he basically… they're just evangelical,
1:05:17
Raquelle: Breeding material that, like, now…
1:05:22
Raquelle: I think they have a couple different artists who make them, because they're still in production, like, people are still,
1:05:30
Tad Eggleston: Boom!
1:05:31
Raquelle: like, new ones are coming out. I subscribed to their newsletter, because, I don't know, I guess it's, like, nostalgic. But, they do a lot of, like, stuff, like, in other countries. They really boast themselves on printing them in, like, multiple languages. Like, I recently got this
1:05:51
Raquelle: thing that was, like, now printed in Hebrew, and, like, like, how they're being, like, distributed in Israel and stuff, because, like, it is a very, like, Zionist,
1:06:03
Raquelle: like… They, they are… they have, like, a whole, a whole…
1:06:11
Raquelle: they… it's really the… the intersection of evangelical Christianity and Zionism, like, they… they have, like, a whole,
1:06:20
Raquelle: CIC track about, that, actually. And
1:06:26
Raquelle: Yeah, my mom, she would, just, like, give them out as, like, tips, and, like, there's even, I think, one that's printed to look like a, like, a $100 bill or something to, like, fake people out.
1:06:39
Raquelle: Because they're sort of designed to be left as, like, tips and, like, in, in, in, areas and stuff, so…
1:06:47
Tad Eggleston: Right.
1:06:47
Raquelle: Yeah, that's about it.
1:06:49
Tad Eggleston: No, I'm currently at the webpage, and just… Over 1 billion sold.
1:06:56
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:06:59
Raquelle: Yeah, the vibe of… the aesthetic of them has, changed. They're now, like…
1:07:06
Raquelle: the drawings are more, like, hyper-realistic, kind of. Yeah.
1:07:12
Tad Eggleston: Start your personal ministry today.
1:07:18
Raquelle: Yeah, I guess he started making them because he was too shy to evangelize, and he wanted to…
1:07:23
Tad Eggleston: I mean, and then… I, I mean…
1:07:27
Tad Eggleston: Like, it's easy to make fun of them.
1:07:33
Tad Eggleston: But… but there's also…
1:07:39
Tad Eggleston: They're such a powerful medium that there's also a part of me that's like, okay,
1:07:52
Tad Eggleston: I appreciate that, that you had this thing that you wanted to… To convey, to teach.
1:08:01
Tad Eggleston: And that this is how you figured out to do it.
1:08:08
Raquelle: Yeah, something I learned, for my artist talk that I had, during my book launch was, that he actually was inspired by, this genre of comics, called… I'm probably mispronouncing it, but Leon Hua Hua, which is, like,
1:08:28
Raquelle: a genre, like, a genre of, like, Chinese comics that were, that really, like, took,
1:08:37
Raquelle: that were really popular, in, like, especially popularized by, the Communist Party of China, in…
1:08:46
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
1:08:47
Raquelle: Because, they, they, used it to help, with, like, their propaganda messaging. And, like, and he heard a…
1:08:56
Raquelle: He heard someone on the radio talking about how they,
1:09:00
Raquelle: how the Communist Party of China would, like, had a lot of success, within their, like, propaganda campaigns, using these, like, palm-sized, comic books, to, like, evangel… like, not evangelize, but, like, to, to spread their, like, political messaging to, like.
1:09:18
Tad Eggleston: I mean, essentially evangelize… Communism.
1:09:22
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah. But like, and I thought that was really cool, because I always sort of thought of chick tracks, like.
1:09:30
Raquelle: co-opting the aesthetics of underground comics, in order to, like, and it's, like, they not only, like, co-opted, like, the aesthetics of underground comics, they also, like, co-opted, like.
1:09:42
Raquelle: like, like, Underground Comments, which I believe as, like, is, like, very, like, revolutionary, and, like, but they, they also, like, co-opted the, like, aesthetics of, like.
1:09:53
Raquelle: like, of, like, a communist propaganda, material, which I think is, like, really interesting how those two things sort of intersect, I guess.
1:10:02
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
1:10:05
Tad Eggleston: That… I'm… I'm looking at some of the, the, the… I ate.
1:10:12
Tad Eggleston: Google is such a wonderful thing.
1:10:14
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:10:14
Tad Eggleston: Falling down a Leon Hua Hua, rabbit hole here.
1:10:19
Raquelle: Oh.
1:10:26
Tad Eggleston: So, okay, we've got, we've got comic strips, Garfield, Chick Tracks, but you also just mentioned underground comics, so when.
1:10:35
Raquelle: Yeah. Did you discover?
1:10:35
Tad Eggleston: for undergrounds.
1:10:36
Raquelle: I didn't, discover underground comics until college. I, like, I dated this, well, dated is a very,
1:10:45
Tad Eggleston: I've read the book.
1:10:47
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
1:10:48
Raquelle: Well, it's like a very… like, I, like, David is a very, like, you know… I actually don't… I don't think I talk about him in this book.
1:10:54
Tad Eggleston: I know, but you did talk about having more situationships than relationships.
1:10:59
Raquelle: Yes, yes, yes.
1:11:01
Raquelle: Yeah, but, like, he, he is a comic artist. He is a comic artist. He's, like, an Australian comic artist, and I was, like, so infatuated with him. I, like, I couldn't believe it! And, like, he, like, he was, like, actually my first,
1:11:19
Tad Eggleston: So now I'm hoping that he's not a complete and total asshole, because, like, I hate it when I discover that comic artists are complete and total assholes.
1:11:27
Raquelle: so funny, because he kind of… he… I mean, he… he isn't… he… I was gonna say he kind of is… he is. He's, like… he was, like, 20 years my senior, and It's really.
1:11:39
Tad Eggleston: Not stuff that I wanted to hear.
1:11:41
Raquelle: Yeah, he… he, he does a lot of, like, very cutesy stuff, you know, and it's… it's… I feel like that's so…
1:11:48
Raquelle: like, I don't know, I feel like sometimes the cussier the comic, the worse the person is, but I don't know.
1:11:55
Tad Eggleston: Right.
1:11:56
Raquelle: It's… that's just…
1:11:57
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I hope that that's not 100% true, because, like, there's…
1:12:03
Raquelle: That's a sweet.
1:12:03
Tad Eggleston: comics that are… That are, like… Pretty cool.
1:12:08
Raquelle: Yeah, that's accusation that I promised.
1:12:11
Tad Eggleston: Right.
1:12:12
Raquelle: couldn't hurl.
1:12:14
Tad Eggleston: But, I mean, it's definitely true across…
1:12:19
Tad Eggleston: not just comics people, like, Predators are often good at Dressing up in sheep's clothing.
1:12:27
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, but…
1:12:28
Tad Eggleston: Teddy bear clothing.
1:12:30
Raquelle: I was, like, completely head over heels, just, like, I was so,
1:12:35
Raquelle: enamored with him, and, he, actually, showed me, like, underground comics, and,
1:12:46
Raquelle: I was like, wow, like,
1:12:49
Raquelle: At the time, I was in college, and most of my work was… I was relying on metaphors and, like, symbolism and stuff, and…
1:13:00
Raquelle: like…
1:13:01
Raquelle: underground comics like Aileen Kaminsky Crum and Phoebe Glockner, they really, like, showed me that I didn't have to rely on those metaphors, like, I could actually depict these things.
1:13:10
Tad Eggleston: You just say, hey!
1:13:12
Tad Eggleston: This is it.
1:13:13
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:13:15
Raquelle: And, like, yeah. Now I feel bad about saying the cutesy comics thing.
1:13:22
Raquelle: But, yeah, scratch that.
1:13:24
Tad Eggleston: I, I mean, like, like…
1:13:29
Tad Eggleston: and this is… this is not to say that you're not allowed to. You're not…
1:13:34
Tad Eggleston: I don't know what you have to feel bad about.
1:13:37
Raquelle: This is just a sweeping accusation.
1:13:40
Tad Eggleston: Right, but… but… but, like, but, but you also didn't make any huge, specific accusations, yeah.
1:13:49
Tad Eggleston: Which, like…
1:13:52
Tad Eggleston: I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to either, though I'm also, like, and this is where I'll get… I get myself in so much trouble with so many people, like…
1:14:02
Tad Eggleston: I… I think, particularly in the United States, we have…
1:14:11
Tad Eggleston: Such a fraught history.
1:14:14
Tad Eggleston: of… Not talking about sex?
1:14:20
Tad Eggleston: Sweeping it under the table, having double standards, having triple standards.
1:14:26
Tad Eggleston: et cetera, et cetera, that yes, we need to get better. I don't know that the way to get better is just to…
1:14:34
Tad Eggleston: Call out and shame people.
1:14:36
Raquelle: Yeah, no, I agree.
1:14:38
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:14:39
Tad Eggleston: Does that… does that make sense? And that's not even to say that I want to defend them.
1:14:44
Tad Eggleston: Y-you know, that's where it gets hard for me, is just like…
1:14:48
Tad Eggleston: I don't want to feel like I'm defending the bad guy, because
1:14:52
Tad Eggleston: I agree that they're the bad guy, but… but I sometimes feel like getting caught up in, like, how badly we need to treat the bad guy, like…
1:15:02
Tad Eggleston: No.
1:15:04
Raquelle: Mrs. I agree.
1:15:05
Tad Eggleston: a point that, like, I'm not saying that their victims have responsibility.
1:15:10
Tad Eggleston: because that's not at all what I'm saying, but I… but I will say that, like, if we…
1:15:15
Tad Eggleston: If we had better communication around these things, if we had
1:15:20
Tad Eggleston: more realistic and thoughtful expectations around these things. A lot of the victims wouldn't be victims because they knew that they didn't have to be.
1:15:34
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:15:35
Tad Eggleston: I mean, because sometimes it's, like, truly monsters, and sometimes it's…
1:15:43
Tad Eggleston: Nobody's communicating the way they're supposed to.
1:15:46
Raquelle: Yeah, I can see that, I can see that.
1:15:48
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, when I grew… like, like…
1:15:53
Tad Eggleston: I'll read the article that's like, women like sex just as much as men, and I'm like, I know that, but I also know that society says they're not supposed to, which means that oftentimes, even when they are interested.
1:16:08
Tad Eggleston: They're supposed to say that they're not, and…
1:16:12
Tad Eggleston: like, just personally, in relationships, I've had it go both ways, like, hey, back off, and why aren't you pursuing me more aggressively?
1:16:23
Tad Eggleston: It's like… Try to be respectful?
1:16:29
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:16:30
Tad Eggleston: That's not what women want. I'm like, you're not allowed to speak for all women!
1:16:35
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:16:37
Tad Eggleston: Just like, I try not to speak for all men.
1:16:40
Tad Eggleston: I mean, men are assholes anyway.
1:16:42
Tad Eggleston: I've been saying that for as long as I can remember.
1:16:46
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:16:47
Tad Eggleston: But that's… I mean, that's… I appreciated that about your book.
1:16:57
Tad Eggleston: Like, the relationships that you… or situationships that you did deal with, like, you were both clear that, you know, this was not actually…
1:17:08
Tad Eggleston: Great.
1:17:09
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:17:10
Raquelle: Yeah, on both, ends of the spectrum, I feel like.
1:17:14
Tad Eggleston: Right. Well, at the same time, acknowledging that…
1:17:18
Tad Eggleston: I don't know that it was done with strictly predatory intent, and I had agency that I didn't exercise.
1:17:28
Tad Eggleston: Because I… I do feel like they're… they're… Potato, are you saying hi?
1:17:34
Tad Eggleston: He never stands up, but he does sometimes come to say hello.
1:17:39
Tad Eggleston: Potato.
1:17:40
Tad Eggleston: And then he runs away.
1:17:42
Raquelle: Aww.
1:17:46
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
1:17:48
Tad Eggleston: This is what happens when you found a country on the prudes that left the other countries.
1:17:55
Tad Eggleston: It's just… it's really… I mean, that's… that's how America started. The people that were too prude for…
1:18:03
Tad Eggleston: for Europe came here.
1:18:05
Tad Eggleston: And they got to be in control.
1:18:07
Tad Eggleston: And we set ourselves back.
1:18:11
Tad Eggleston: That's just a whole other rabbit hole that I can go down. It is something that I think about too much.
1:18:17
Tad Eggleston: Because it pops up, and it's like…
1:18:21
Tad Eggleston: I look at something, I'm like, like.
1:18:24
Tad Eggleston: How can you be so right and so completely miss the point at the same time?
1:18:31
Tad Eggleston: or… or so wrong, even though I like what you're…
1:18:37
Tad Eggleston: Like, the results of what's coming out of what you're saying, but, like, the way you're going about it, like.
1:18:46
Tad Eggleston: I need to… to… to… let's ask another question.
1:18:50
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:18:56
Tad Eggleston: I sometimes reach the point where I'm like, okay, now I'm feeling like the creepy old man talking to the…
1:19:02
Tad Eggleston: 20-something. I need to stop, I need to stop, I need to stop.
1:19:13
Tad Eggleston: let me check the time. We should probably start… this has been a… this has been a road. Let me… let me roll into final questions, just because I think… well, no, because we didn't… I… I went off on a tangent. Like, you were introduced to…
1:19:30
Raquelle: Yeah,
1:19:31
Tad Eggleston: Undergrounds.
1:19:32
Raquelle: And, baby.
1:19:33
Tad Eggleston: Phoebe Gluckner.
1:19:35
Raquelle: And…
1:19:35
Tad Eggleston: Those are favorites. I can see some Linda Berry in your work. Is that incidental, or are you a fan?
1:19:42
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah. I… I… I know of her work, but I wouldn't say I'm as well-versed, yeah.
1:19:53
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
1:19:54
Raquelle: But I also, like, get inspiration from, like.
1:19:59
Raquelle: non-comic artists, like, Ralph Stedman and, Henry Darger, but… Yeah.
1:20:08
Raquelle: Yeah, that's pretty much, like, my comics history. It's kind of, short and, sweet.
1:20:18
Tad Eggleston: Do you have favorites?
1:20:20
Tad Eggleston: Favorite works?
1:20:21
Raquelle: Oh,
1:20:25
Raquelle: I really like A Child's Life, by Phoebe Lochner, like, that's probably my favorite.
1:20:37
Tad Eggleston: I haven't actually read that one. I read… I read, oh, what's her more?
1:20:44
Raquelle: teenage girls.
1:20:45
Tad Eggleston: Yes.
1:20:46
Tad Eggleston: Yes.
1:20:47
Raquelle: A child's Life is more like a collection of stories.
1:20:51
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:20:52
Tad Eggleston: Which, I mean, by and large, that's always, always how…
1:20:59
Tad Eggleston: I'm really amazed when people manage to do painful memoirs that aren't collections of stories. Yeah. Because I would sit there going.
1:21:08
Tad Eggleston: Don't you want to be able to… to switch gears for a little bit?
1:21:13
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, like, I…
1:21:16
Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay, I know this book, I just haven't read it.
1:21:18
Raquelle: Nice.
1:21:19
Raquelle: I was listening to, like, a, a podcast that sort of went into,
1:21:26
Raquelle: The concept of narrativizing one's life, and, like, just literally just talking about memoirs, and just how…
1:21:36
Raquelle: the process of narrativizing one's life, because… because life doesn't play by…
1:21:46
Raquelle: the rules of a narrative. It's like…
1:21:51
Raquelle: You, you, it's very easy to fall into different,
1:21:57
Raquelle: Into, like, exaggeration and stuff like that, whenever you're,
1:22:02
Raquelle: dealing with stories, especially that are just… that aren't, like, a collection of stories. I don't know, it's, like, because you're, like, you're trying to… you're trying to project a, like, a…
1:22:15
Tad Eggleston: Simple narrative.
1:22:16
Raquelle: Yes, yes.
1:22:17
Tad Eggleston: On something that's much messier than that.
1:22:20
Raquelle: Yes, yes, and I think… I was able to…
1:22:27
Raquelle: I think I sort of circumvented that altogether in Bimbo Agent Prop, like, there… and I… to some detriment, I don't know, but, like, because it is very…
1:22:40
Raquelle: There was one review, and it was a good review, but, like, it sort of said something like how…
1:22:48
Raquelle: things just happen one after another, after another, after another, with, like, no clear resolution. And it's like, yeah, that's just kind of how life is. Yeah. But,
1:22:59
Tad Eggleston: Well, particularly when you're writing it from the middle.
1:23:03
Raquelle: Yeah, that's true.
1:23:04
Tad Eggleston: Or, frankly, hopefully, the first third.
1:23:07
Raquelle: Yeah. Yeah.
1:23:09
Tad Eggleston: You know.
1:23:11
Tad Eggleston: Where did the title come from?
1:23:16
Raquelle: Well, the first title was actually Agent Bag of Things.
1:23:21
Tad Eggleston: Should bigger problems, I love that.
1:23:23
Raquelle: That was, that's something my dad, would call me,
1:23:28
Tad Eggleston: Oh my god.
1:23:28
Raquelle: you're nothing.
1:23:29
Tad Eggleston: But now I like it less.
1:23:31
Raquelle: I don' It's like, it is what it is. But, like, I,
1:23:37
Raquelle: But I… I think the profanity would have hurt the reach, and I never really… I don't… I don't… like, this is another sweeping, claim, but, like, because I'm sure there are some books that have profanity in the title that I love, but I… I've always sort of…
1:23:56
Raquelle: not liked it whenever people, put profanity in the title. Like, I feel like it seems… it feels, like, cheesy in a way, sort of. But I also thought it would hurt the reach, and, like, you would have to say, like, shit, like, S, Astrid, Astrid, Astrid.
1:24:12
Tad Eggleston: Right.
1:24:12
Raquelle: the problems. And eric, the editor, gently said that.
1:24:20
Tad Eggleston: Eric's a good guy.
1:24:21
Raquelle: Yeah, that, like, it wasn't the best title, and I was like, okay, let's, figure something else out, and my next suggestion was Agitprop for Bimbos, because, I kinda…
1:24:37
Raquelle: That was sort of like a tongue-in-cheek way to sort of make fun of, like, the,
1:24:44
Raquelle: the… what I perceived at the time as a dramatic turn to the political at the end, like, that came out of nowhere, but… and I'm saying, like, so much, but,
1:24:57
Tad Eggleston: You spent time in California, and you're American.
1:25:00
Raquelle: Yes, but, Eric said that the bimbo, adject prop for bimbos was too wordy, and then he,
1:25:10
Raquelle: came back with, what about Bingo Agent prop? And I was like, yeah, that sounds good to me, yeah.
1:25:15
Tad Eggleston: That, I like it.
1:25:16
Raquelle: Yeah, me too. Yeah.
1:25:18
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
1:25:19
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
1:25:25
Tad Eggleston: Closing questions.
1:25:28
Tad Eggleston: I'm just hitting, like…
1:25:32
Tad Eggleston: like, a month away from my fifth year of doing this podcast, and I feel like I've fallen into the Twilight Zone.
1:25:39
Tad Eggleston: Because… the conversations I get to have, the people that I consider friends now.
1:25:47
Tad Eggleston: the things that I've gotten to… to see or do since I started doing this podcast are just…
1:25:54
Tad Eggleston: one thing after another that if you told me even 10 years ago, much less as a 15-year-old comic geek, oh, your life will include this, I would have been like, fuck you. How? How? How is my life gonna include that?
1:26:11
Tad Eggleston: But I find that everybody in the business, really everybody in the arts, but even more so in comics.
1:26:18
Tad Eggleston: Shares that.
1:26:23
Tad Eggleston: Has those… those surreal experiences, or stories, or… Whatever.
1:26:32
Tad Eggleston: Things that comics have added to their life that they just kind of have to pinch themselves and go, was that…
1:26:38
Tad Eggleston: Is that really me? So I started collecting those stories. Tell me… tell me about one of your…
1:26:45
Tad Eggleston: Surreal moments, or just general, oh, wow.
1:26:51
Tad Eggleston: how did this happen to me? Because of comic stories.
1:26:59
Raquelle: Hmm.
1:27:04
Raquelle: Walt…
1:27:12
Raquelle: I guess…
1:27:30
Raquelle: Hmm.
1:27:34
Raquelle: I have something in mind, but I'm not sure… It really fits the description.
1:27:40
Tad Eggleston: We don't have rules here.
1:27:42
Raquelle: Okay.
1:27:55
Raquelle: Sorry.
1:27:57
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
1:27:59
Tad Eggleston: For that matter, I haven't had anybody do it yet, but I won't stop you from saying pass.
1:28:06
Raquelle: Okay.
1:28:07
Tad Eggleston: You're not required to answer every question I ask you.
1:28:10
Raquelle: Yeah, I'm just not sure I want to.
1:28:12
Tad Eggleston: Putting you too much on… that's…
1:28:15
Tad Eggleston: You're allowed to have stories that are your stories.
1:28:18
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:28:20
Tad Eggleston: You know… That, that's…
1:28:24
Raquelle: Can you edit out this pause?
1:28:27
Tad Eggleston: I can, I might not.
1:28:29
Raquelle: Oh, okay.
1:28:31
Tad Eggleston: See, I… A, I'm lazy, And, and B…
1:28:36
Tad Eggleston: And B, I've actually gotten some commentary that, at least among some of our listeners, they appreciate the fact that we allow
1:28:45
Tad Eggleston: For the possibility that people will think about what they're gonna say, rather than just immediately blurt something out.
1:28:55
Tad Eggleston: But if you want me to edit out this pause, I can… I can go find it when I do that.
1:29:00
Raquelle: Okay,
1:29:02
Tad Eggleston: Though we've now talked about it, so I'll be editing out a pause, and then we'll be talking about a pause, or do I need to… or do I need to also edit out the discussion of the pause?
1:29:12
Raquelle: I guess…
1:29:14
Tad Eggleston: Both…
1:29:15
Raquelle: but… or… Or one or the other.
1:29:26
Tad Eggleston: I will make a note to myself to do a quick edit.
1:29:37
Tad Eggleston: Do you want me to skip the question?
1:29:41
Tad Eggleston: Would that make it easier?
1:29:43
Raquelle: Yeah, I guess.
1:29:44
Tad Eggleston: Since we're editing, Since we're… since we're editing out the pause.
1:29:50
Raquelle: I feel like there's been…
1:29:56
Raquelle: It's kind of… it's just difficult to answer, because there…
1:30:02
Raquelle: not a lot of things surprise me anymore, or, like, make me feel like I never…
1:30:12
Raquelle: would have thought, this would happen, because I guess I never really would have thought that I would have
1:30:19
Raquelle: Like, I guess it's just the conception of a future, Like, everything sort of feels…
1:30:28
Tad Eggleston: Surprising.
1:30:29
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, I guess pass, I'm sorry.
1:30:34
Tad Eggleston: Then here's what we're gonna do, since we gotta edit it out anyway. I'm gonna rephrase… I mean, because it's become a regular enough question, I'm gonna rephrase it to give you the option to say, let me answer that next time when I've been at this a little longer.
1:30:48
Raquelle: Okay, okay.
1:30:50
Tad Eggleston: Because this is your first major release.
1:30:52
Raquelle: Yes.
1:30:52
Tad Eggleston: So… so we'll give it a little… I'm gonna give some dead space here, just to make it easier to… to,
1:31:01
Tad Eggleston: find in the recording, and then I'll… Alright, closing questions.
1:31:12
Tad Eggleston: I've been doing the podcast for about 5 years now, and I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone.
1:31:17
Tad Eggleston: you know, the ways that my life has changed in just wonderful ways, conversations that I get to have, people that I get to meet, and I find that
1:31:28
Tad Eggleston: That's so true for so many people in comics, so many people in the arts.
1:31:33
Tad Eggleston: I understand that this is your first book?
1:31:36
Tad Eggleston: So you haven't hit the con circuit, you haven't… haven't gotten to have… have your heroes come and say.
1:31:45
Tad Eggleston: oh my god, I read your book, and it was amazing.
1:31:49
Tad Eggleston: So if you need to… to…
1:31:53
Tad Eggleston: tosses down the line for the next time we talk, I understand.
1:31:58
Tad Eggleston: but do you have any sort of, like, surreal experience?
1:32:03
Tad Eggleston: That, that you can think of.
1:32:06
Tad Eggleston: That you'd like to… to share?
1:32:12
Raquelle: Let me, get back to you whenever I've done this a little longer, but I actually thought about something. I…
1:32:20
Raquelle: I, I… I got a story, alongside Robert Crum in this, like, small,
1:32:29
Raquelle: magazine called Headache Comics.
1:32:32
Tad Eggleston: Oh, that's amazing.
1:32:33
Raquelle: Yeah, that was… it's probably one of my most…
1:32:37
Raquelle: disgusting stories I've ever made in my entire life.
1:32:43
Raquelle: There's a part of me that hopes no one.
1:32:45
Tad Eggleston: So it fits with Robert Crum.
1:32:47
Raquelle: Yes! It's like, it's, it's a, it's a story of one of my most disgusting memories I've ever had.
1:32:55
Tad Eggleston: And now I'm gonna have to go track down this comic.
1:32:58
Tad Eggleston: What was it again?
1:33:00
Raquelle: Headache Comics, I think it was the third issue, or the fifth, I can't remember which one, but yeah, it was a real honor to…
1:33:11
Raquelle: be in something alongside, Robert Crum.
1:33:14
Tad Eggleston: That, that sounds cool. I, I haven't… I haven't met Crumb.
1:33:19
Tad Eggleston: But, I'm friends with Dennis Kitchen, so I've heard some cool crumb stories.
1:33:25
Raquelle: Nice.
1:33:28
Tad Eggleston: Some of them about him just generally being… Nervous at, at cons.
1:33:36
Tad Eggleston: Dennis told a great story about…
1:33:41
Tad Eggleston: One of the last cons that they did together.
1:33:45
Tad Eggleston: He kept put next to, like, one of the image guys.
1:33:51
Tad Eggleston: So, so, so, like… 90s pop comic superstar, massive line.
1:34:01
Tad Eggleston: And Crumb had a decent-sized line, but not, like…
1:34:06
Tad Eggleston: And, like, he was just agitated the entire time.
1:34:09
Raquelle: Wow.
1:34:09
Tad Eggleston: not enough people, and then long before he was supposed to stop, he… he decided that he was done, and, like, the last person in line is like, oh, I drove so far, and I just wanted to tell you
1:34:21
Tad Eggleston: He signed for that person.
1:34:24
Tad Eggleston: And then the next person tried to… to pull a similar, and he just…
1:34:30
Raquelle: Aww.
1:34:34
Tad Eggleston: But I mean, I get that, because… like…
1:34:38
Tad Eggleston: Comics people, perhaps more than most other
1:34:48
Tad Eggleston: Creatives tend to be really… Introverted?
1:34:53
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
1:34:54
Tad Eggleston: I've, I've met maybe… maybe a handful of comics people who I think are actually extroverted.
1:35:02
Tad Eggleston: And a smaller handful that I know can pretend to be extroverted?
1:35:08
Tad Eggleston: But, like, the better I get to know them, the more I realize that the extroverted things, the act.
1:35:13
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:35:14
Tad Eggleston: It's the face they can put on for a podcast or a con.
1:35:20
Tad Eggleston: So, like, I get that, particularly because some of those image lines are… I was… I was at a con with,
1:35:28
Tad Eggleston: that Kevin Eastman, the guy that created Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, was signing at, and…
1:35:34
Tad Eggleston: Like, his line circled almost the entire… convention floor.
1:35:39
Raquelle: Wow.
1:35:42
Raquelle: well.
1:35:43
Tad Eggleston: I'm like, really? You're gonna… I mean, I even had a friend that was in it, like, I didn't know he was in it until I walked by him, and I stopped to talk to him, like… like… and I had to ask him, like, I mean…
1:35:57
Tad Eggleston: Turtles, great. Eastman, great, but you're gonna spend half your day at the con in this line?
1:36:06
Tad Eggleston: You know that so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so are over at those tables with nobody there!
1:36:13
Tad Eggleston: You can actually talk to them!
1:36:15
Raquelle: Yeah…
1:36:19
Tad Eggleston: But, alright, final question, and I was rude, because I took,
1:36:26
Tad Eggleston: I took Child's life off the table by getting you to mention it earlier.
1:36:30
Raquelle: Oh.
1:36:32
Tad Eggleston: Tell me something you love.
1:36:34
Tad Eggleston: Preferably a comic.
1:36:36
Tad Eggleston: But we don't have rules.
1:36:38
Tad Eggleston: Preferably storytelling, but again, with the rules, but something that you love.
1:36:44
Tad Eggleston: That not enough people around you have experienced.
1:36:48
Tad Eggleston: And you'd really like more of them, too, so that you have more people to talk about it.
1:36:56
Raquelle: Let me see if I have it.
1:37:01
Tad Eggleston: Everybody starts looking at their bookshelves. That's my favorite part about this question.
1:37:07
Raquelle: Let me see if I can find it real fast.
1:37:13
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
1:38:03
Raquelle: Okay.
1:38:06
Raquelle: I really like this,
1:38:09
Raquelle: retelling of the Communist Manifesto, adapted by Martin Rousen. There's, like, some really great,
1:38:18
Raquelle: drawings in here that sort of… Encapsulate the churning, brutality of capitalism, and it's very… like…
1:38:34
Raquelle: dark, and…
1:38:36
Tad Eggleston: Nice.
1:38:38
Raquelle: Beautiful, it's a beautiful book. And, yeah, so… I think that's…
1:38:45
Tad Eggleston: Martin Rouseen, let me… let me look that up, let me make certain I… I found it before I let you go, because… Okay.
1:38:52
Tad Eggleston: Cause, you know… I, I, I,
1:38:58
Tad Eggleston: That looks like the type of one that I might, like, find my… myself,
1:39:07
Tad Eggleston: Reading and getting back to you.
1:39:11
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:39:13
Tad Eggleston: How do you spell Rousin?
1:39:15
Raquelle: R-o-w-s-o-n.
1:39:28
Tad Eggleston: Okay, that looks… Very, very cool.
1:39:32
Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay, he's an editorial cartoonist for The Guardian. I knew I recognized the name just barely?
1:39:40
Tad Eggleston: South.
1:39:42
Tad Eggleston: Very, very cool.
1:39:44
Tad Eggleston: And I, and I like myself,
1:39:50
Tad Eggleston: Oh, a self-made hero, of course.
1:39:54
Tad Eggleston: I like a good comics adaptation. Nice.
1:40:00
Tad Eggleston: Largely because I can't make pictures in my head.
1:40:03
Tad Eggleston: So…
1:40:05
Raquelle: Oh!
1:40:05
Tad Eggleston: There are some things that, like, really get unlocked for me.
1:40:11
Tad Eggleston: when… they're adapted. Even some things that I loved already.
1:40:16
Tad Eggleston: you know, when they get adapted, like, I've always loved Slaughterhouse-Viv, I love Kurt Vonnegut, but, like, I didn't realize why everybody told… thought it was so funny.
1:40:29
Tad Eggleston: Rather than just morbid, until I read the Ryan North and, I think, Alberto Montes adaptation, and it, like, it's like, oh, oh, I get it now!
1:40:44
Raquelle: That's cool.
1:40:46
Raquelle: Follow that up.
1:40:48
Tad Eggleston: And, like, I've already… many of my favorite economics books are… comics.
1:40:56
Tad Eggleston: Because I think… I think when you're dealing with…
1:41:05
Tad Eggleston: Things that can be number-heavy, but are also… very much… About things, rather than numbers.
1:41:18
Tad Eggleston: It's often good to have pictures with the words.
1:41:25
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. To really…
1:41:27
Tad Eggleston: you know, again, the teacher in me, like, when I have a kid having trouble with an economics class, I bring in
1:41:35
Tad Eggleston: Economics with a X?
1:41:38
Raquelle: Nice.
1:41:39
Tad Eggleston: I think there was a book by,
1:41:42
Tad Eggleston: I gotta look it up right now, cause…
1:41:49
Tad Eggleston: Economics.
1:41:52
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
1:41:54
Tad Eggleston: Economics, with an X, was by Michael Goodwin and Dan Burr.
1:41:59
Tad Eggleston: And it essentially is a… Econ 101 class, but with…
1:42:07
Tad Eggleston: Not just diagrams, but pictures and, like, really breaking down…
1:42:13
Tad Eggleston: the how, you know, Allison Bechtel's newest book, Dealt with her learning about Economics.
1:42:23
Tad Eggleston: And, you know, it wasn't strictly about that, because that's not how Becht… I mean…
1:42:28
Tad Eggleston: It's not how Bechdel works most of the time, but… but, like…
1:42:32
Tad Eggleston: She was wanting to understand capitalism better, so…
1:42:36
Raquelle: Oh, wow.
1:42:37
Tad Eggleston: Part of that journey is embedded in the book, and you're able to…
1:42:42
Tad Eggleston: Understand better, because you've got both Both her personal stories.
1:42:48
Tad Eggleston: And the theory going side by side.
1:42:53
Tad Eggleston: everybody knows Durf Bechter for… for… my friend Dahmer, but, like, my favorite of his books is actually called Trashed.
1:43:04
Tad Eggleston: Because he… he… It both has… like… A really great non-fiction component.
1:43:14
Tad Eggleston: about… Garbage and ecology and the environment and whatnot.
1:43:20
Tad Eggleston: Combined with a fictionalized version of…
1:43:28
Tad Eggleston: His time as a garbage man.
1:43:31
Raquelle: Oh, wow.
1:43:33
Tad Eggleston: So you're both able to, like, see… the… more academic… side of…
1:43:46
Tad Eggleston: The environmental stuff, but also the human side of, like.
1:43:50
Tad Eggleston: The guys that get up at 6 o'clock in the morning and ride on the back of a truck, and…
1:43:56
Tad Eggleston: you know… And those things are things that are just so unique to comics. It's so hard…
1:44:04
Tad Eggleston: Like, one of the reasons why it's so important that we teach both history and literature in schools is history tells you a lot of
1:44:14
Tad Eggleston: The what and when, and some of the how.
1:44:18
Tad Eggleston: And literature tends to tell you a lot more of the why and what it felt like.
1:44:25
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, I guess.
1:44:27
Tad Eggleston: Even if it's not technically a true story.
1:44:31
Tad Eggleston: You know what I mean?
1:44:33
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
1:44:35
Tad Eggleston: Because, you know, when we divorce those things, like, this is part of why your book is so powerful, like, we… I mean, I hit on this way back at the beginning of the conversation, like.
1:44:47
Tad Eggleston: we think of QAnon people in the abstract, and we think of…
1:44:52
Tad Eggleston: The… the… the problems with not having good schools, or not having good…
1:44:58
Tad Eggleston: Mental health services available in the abstract, but we don't often… Think of them side-by-side with… the realities.
1:45:09
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:45:11
Tad Eggleston: You know.
1:45:12
Tad Eggleston: And that can also lead to, when we see the realities, rather than thinking of the bigger problems…
1:45:21
Tad Eggleston: I mean… The single biggest…
1:45:24
Tad Eggleston: problem we have with mental health in the United States is how every mental health illness is considered a character flaw.
1:45:34
Tad Eggleston: We never like to talk about how there's anything systemic about it. We never like to talk about any of it being luck of the draw.
1:45:41
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:45:43
Tad Eggleston: I mean, yes.
1:45:45
Tad Eggleston: There's a lot of personal responsibility involved in, like, overcoming.
1:45:52
Tad Eggleston: I don't even like using mental illness, because that's… that's a,
1:45:58
Tad Eggleston: It's an illness model of medicine rather than a social model of medicine, and when it comes to mental health, the social model is much more accurate.
1:46:06
Tad Eggleston: You know, you don't…
1:46:08
Tad Eggleston: again, we discussed it earlier, you don't stop being autistic. You don't stop being borderline personality. You…
1:46:17
Tad Eggleston: Find the best ways to adapt to make that more of a strength and less of a weakness.
1:46:24
Raquelle: Yes.
1:46:24
Raquelle: Absolutely.
1:46:27
Raquelle: Yeah, you can, like…
1:46:29
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah, you can no longer meet the criteria, but it's like, it's still always a…
1:46:37
Raquelle: that the journey of… of not meeting the criteria is a never-ending journey. Like, it's…
1:46:45
Tad Eggleston: Right.
1:46:46
Raquelle: It's like, there's…
1:46:47
Tad Eggleston: Well, and, like, for me, like… I got my autism diagnosis.
1:46:54
Tad Eggleston: Much later, I've got it in, like, the last 2 years, because under the DSM-3,
1:47:01
Tad Eggleston: I could talk, so I wasn't autistic.
1:47:04
Raquelle: Oh.
1:47:05
Tad Eggleston: Under the DSM-IV, you know, DSM-3 was what was out when I was a kid. DSM-IV was what was available when I was in, like, high school and whatnot.
1:47:13
Tad Eggleston: I was smart, so I wasn't autistic.
1:47:15
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:47:17
Tad Eggleston: It wasn't until the DSM-5 that there were autistic people
1:47:21
Tad Eggleston: involved in the criteria, and who bent over backwards to, like, essentially say, like, the ability to mask doesn't make you not autistic.
1:47:32
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:47:32
Tad Eggleston: It just means that you've already found coping mechanisms.
1:47:38
Tad Eggleston: Right? And not necessarily good ones.
1:47:41
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:47:46
Tad Eggleston: And of course, that came out in my 30s, and I don't know if you've noticed, but, like, we only consider autism to be a children's problem.
1:47:54
Raquelle: Yeah, yeah.
1:47:57
Raquelle: Yeah.
1:47:58
Tad Eggleston: So… Raquelle, it has been…
1:48:01
Tad Eggleston: Absolutely wonderful. Your book is amazing. I expect we're going to see it on a lot of lists in a couple of months, and up for a lot of awards next year.
1:48:14
Tad Eggleston: I can't wait to see what you do next.
1:48:16
Tad Eggleston: And you're welcome back anytime.
1:48:19
Raquelle: Thank you so much.
1:48:21
Tad Eggleston: For 22 panels, this has been Raquelle Jac.
1:48:24
Tad Eggleston: And we will see you after the next page.
1:48:29
Raquelle: Bye.