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MBA Wire Taps 508: 332 GRE, from India. Journalist, no quant. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, August 10, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. How are things going, Alex?
• 0:27
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: So this is peak, you know, peak summertime. I guess you're getting out and about. It must be great weather. I always envy. I just think of it as being not quite as hot where you live as it has been in down here on the continent, but I don't know.
• 0:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, we've actually had some spectacular summer weather and consistent. So we're in drought condition, which is quite unusual for the uk.
• 0:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: But, yeah, lovely weather.
• 0:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 0:54
  Speaker B: Unless you're a farmer. Yeah, farmers are not happy.
• 0:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'll bet. So this week, Alex, we've got a lot to get to because we've got some news about round one and early decision deadlines, events to attend in both August and September. And then we've got some notes from an admissions director, Q and A that Lauren on our team did with Chicago Booth, and of course, our candidates to discuss. So let's dive right in. I do want to give a usual plug for all the events that we have coming up. We're going to do a live stream on September 1st at noon Eastern. That's me and you taking people's questions. And then in late September, we have our application, what is it called? Inside the MBA Application Process Series or something like that. And we have 28 schools already signed on for that. And I just was looking at the list and I noticed that we have Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Columbia, Chicago, Kellogg and MIT all signed up for that series, along with a whole bunch of other fantastic schools. But I think it might be the first time that the entirety of the M7 are doing an event series with us, which I'm really looking forward to.
• 1:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's absolutely brilliant. And again, a real good, strong reflection of Clear Admit being a presence in the MBA admissions field. If all the top programs are participating in our events, I just think that's absolutely fantastic.
• 2:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And it'll be a lot of fun. And I mean, you saw, we were in US News the other day, US News and World Report ran a story about how to look at work experience in the context of an MBA application. And they had rung me up for some course quotes and stuff. So anyway, yeah, so we were there too.
• 2:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, kudos to you. You were the main feature in that article. I thought that was actually really, really good.
• 2:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Now, and the woman at U.S. news was terrific about reaching out and yeah, was really easy. So.
• 2:43
  Speaker B: And actually what you said was okay too. Well done.
• 2:47
  Speaker A: There you go. The other thing, speaking of events and stuff and by the way, you can sign up for Clear Admit events by just going to clear admit.com events. Obviously for our live streams you just need to subscribe to our YouTube channel and then you get a notification when we are taking one of those live. So just be, you know, subscribe to YouTube if you can. The other thing Alex, is that we just ran a piece and we do this at the beginning of every month and this is our top events to attend in August, in person events and these are the schools events and we just sort of promote them and want to make sure candidates know what's happening in their city. So for instance like tonight if you're in New York, you could go hear Stanford representatives speak at McKinsey from 7 to 9pm and they're going to give an overview the Stanford MBA program as well as Stanford's MSX program which is more of a mid career leadership management kind of course they'll have alumni there and this is the kind of stuff we put up on the site in these monthly posts. And for instance, on August 19th, UVA, Darden and Wharton are teaming up in Arlington, Virginia. They'll have admissions representatives. They're going to do a little event I guess somewhere in Arlington. In any event you can get all the details on our website. But I just think it's kind of cool that we're tracking this stuff and making it easy for candidates to know what's happening when in their cities.
• 4:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's a really good resource because if you can attend events live in person, you're going to get much more out of it than you would from the sort of the webinar style events that schools will obviously host. I mean that's still very valuable, don't get me wrong. But. But there's nothing better than in person connection. I did tell you, didn't I Graham, one time that we have someone in our little hamlet who graduated from the MSX at Stanford.
• 4:36
  Speaker A: Oh wow. Yeah, I think you might have mentioned that. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I think it's funny these events. I think I feel like a few things happen when you go to an in person event. Number one is speaking of alumni. Most of these events, the schools, the admissions reps will bring along alums, especially if they're in a big market like New York or D.C. there'll be an alum or two that come around. And so you get this chance to talk to someone who's been through the program, not only to find out if it's the right thing for you, but also invariably, you're going to get information that you can use in your application from those conversations because you'll learn a little bit more about the nuances of the program. So in any event, that's. And another thing that I think can happen is you might interact with the admissions team and they may remember you. It never hurts to show your face. I mean, it seems like a smart bet to me, in any event.
• 5:23
  Speaker B: And bring a notepad or make sure you use your voice memos or whatever and just take notes and reflections throughout the events because they'll come back and become really important when you're developing your essays and so on and so forth.
• 5:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. Did you. I mean, did you ever come across someone when you were on the road working for Wharton? I mean, you would go do events in different cities around the globe and did you ever meet someone and then, you know, you kind of see their file come in a couple months later and you remember them or you think it's totally. You just. It's a separate process.
• 5:56
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I got to be off honest that we're seeing a lot of files, so. So, yeah, the bigger schools, it probably doesn't have that much of a dramatic effect in terms of building the, the, the direct relationship with the, with the adcom. But I do think you, you, you have some nuance and some insights that you gather in the moment at events that if you don't document them immediately, you won't ultimately weave them into your. I mean, I'm not saying you'll forget them, but you'll forget the context, et cetera, et cetera. So I do think when you attend events, bring a notepad or be very. Use your voice memo. Fantastic.
• 6:39
  Speaker A: Good idea. Speaking of events. Well, September kicks off with a lot of deadlines. So most of these schools have their early or round one admissions deadlines.
• 6:49
  Speaker B: What's happening September 9th, Graeme?
• 6:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's insane. So I was looking at this on September 9, Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, and Kellogg all have deadlines. So I kind of wish they would talk to each other. I mean, maybe they do, and they're like, hey, why don't we put it all on the same day? But I don't know why they're all on the same day. But this is important, and it actually underlines a really key theme. And this is why we run this piece every year. Which lists out all the deadlines. I think we have every single deadline from, like, September 1st through October, because they really are spread out. Actually, Cambridge kicks off the season with a deadline on August 24th. They're the only school in August, but everything else is in September and beyond. But you got to know when these deadlines are so that you can figure out which apps you should be working on when. And it really does come down to it, especially with some of them on the same day.
• 7:37
  Speaker B: And Cambridge is typically the first school with a deadline, so this is not a new thing for them. They were first school out of the box last season. And schools typically do stick to a similar schedule that they had in prior years for whatever reasons.
• 7:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think one thing that's kind of interesting to me is that we talk about this every year, but you'll notice that I can't remember the date, and I don't think I have it in front of me or I'll try to pull it up. But you remember that there is a school, one of the top 10 type schools, which is MIT, that always puts their deadline in round one a bit after everyone. And I think it's so smart. It just seems like such a smart strategy. Anyway, their deadline, I'm just kind of trying to pull it up here on the fly. But their deadline is 29th September this year. So, yeah, it's just interesting. Everyone's in a rush to get everyone to apply now. Chicago booth is actually on the 15th, so they're sitting a few days out after that batch when Stern. Oh, NYU has. They have a pretty early one, I thought, but maybe not actually. You might be right. So, yeah, NYU is actually on the 15th as well, so middle of the month. But that's. That's kind of. Then they have. What's really strange about NYU and kind of a nice thing on some levels is they have that mid September deadline. But. But then I was noticing that they also have a deadline on October 15, which is their second round. So they have more rounds.
• 8:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, they have lots of deadlines. And we have to say nice things about Stern, but they do have a lot of deadlines. No doubt.
• 9:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's a. Yeah, I think it's giving people flexibility. So in any event. So, yeah, know your deadlines. We've run our. Our. Our annual piece on that. And so, yeah, definitely know what. When your schools are. Are hitting. Cause it really does matter. The other thing I wanted to share, Alex, before we get into candidates this week and stuff, is that we Caught up Lauren Team caught up with Donna Swinford from Chicago Booth. And full disclosure, I just had Donna on on the podcast. I just recorded an episode with her a few days ago that will probably air probably later this month is my guess. But I she's fantastic. She's been in in this industry since 1997, so she's seen a lot at Chicago Booth. All those years have been at Booth. Right. So in any event, Lauren caught up with her and she did our admissions director Q and A the written version, an interview for the site, basically. And one of the things I wanted to share was Donna's response to the essay question that we asked, which is like, how does your team, you know, assess essays and what are you looking for? Et cetera? So Chicago Booth is quite interesting because they eliminated their essays this year. They, they moved to four kind of short answer questions in the application data form, which are, I mean, really short. I think they're 300 characters each. And I feel like I might have asked ChatGPT or Claude at some point and that's like a sentence or two. So they have really dramatically cut back. So anyway, this is what she had to say when we asked, because we asked her anyway, what do you think about essays? And she said this may be a shift. Applicants are also seeing in other programs as admissions processes continue to evolve alongside the rise of AI and better reflect the skills expected after business school. Rather than relying on a traditional admissions essay, we've expanded our short answer prompts to help us understand both the professional and personal sides of each applicant. We want to learn about their career aspirations, but also what matters to them, how they think, and the unique character they'll bring to the Booth community. One of the new prompts asks applicants to upload a meaningful image and briefly explain its significance. It's a natural evolution from this past year's essay, where applicants selected one of four provided photos and explained how it resonated with them. Now they can upload their own image to share a glimpse with the admissions team of their personality and who they are. She goes on to say that at a high level throughout the entire application process, we're looking to learn more about candidates reasons for pursuing the MBA experience to get a window into what distinguishes them as an individual and what they hope to achieve with a Booth degree, the best advice is simply to be yourself. My other little bit of guidance is to make sure your response is directly aligned with with the prompt and that it's your own words. Above all else, your response should be an authentic Reflection of your individual viewpoint. And hopefully it provides a peek into who you are as a person, both professionally and personally. So that's a lot. But what do you think? I mean, this is a kind of an interesting move. And I will add they have a video now, too, that I can't remember how it works exactly, but basically, you go online and they give you a question, you have to answer it. I think right away, there's no preparation time. And again, they're trying to get the authentic candidate, is my guess.
• 12:16
  Speaker B: I think that's the key, Right. Trying to get the authentic candidate. And. And, you know, AI is. Is. Is definitely, you know, being adopted quite widely in terms of essay prep, et cetera, et cetera. And there's no doubt candidates are using it for the more traditional essays, and they got to be careful about how they use it. And we'll talk about that more in another show. But this is definitely a reaction to all that. And I like it. I think it's quite. Yeah, really good.
• 12:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think it's fine.
• 12:49
  Speaker B: I'll also say, just as a bit of trivia, Donna started at Chicago the same year I started at Wharton.
• 12:57
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. And you know what's funny? I don't know if you've ever met her, but you guys shared the same boss for a period of time, right? Because you worked for a period of time with Rose, right, At Wharton. Rose Martinelli. And then Rose Martinelli went and at Chicago. Or maybe Rose was a colleague of yours and wasn't yet boss. But in any event, you both worked with Rose Martinelli.
• 13:16
  Speaker B: We did.
• 13:16
  Speaker A: At Wharton. And Booth. So very cool stuff. Speaking of admissions director Q and A's, I mean, there's still more and more of these being published on the website, but as many of you know who listen to the podcast regularly, we continue to publish podcast episodes with admissions deans as well. Last week, we ran an admissions director Q and A with Donna Levinson from MIT Sloan. So that's in the feed here. You can listen wherever you're listening to this episode. And I'm really excited to say I've been recording a ton of these. I caught up with Willie Green at UVA Darden, Lindsay Lloyd at NYU Stern, Rupo Gadia at Harvard. So there are many more to come, and they'll all be in the feed here. So wherever you listen, you can get them. This is why it's really important, actually, to subscribe to the show, because then you'll just. They'll pop into your feed automatically. So I recommend you subscribe wherever you're listening. Alex. Anything else you want to discuss today though? Before we get into our candidates, let's kick on. All right, so moving right along, this is Wiretaps candidates number one. So our first candidate this week is looking to start school in the fall of 27. So diligently working away on applications as we speak here, they've got Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, duke, Harvard, Kellogg, NYU, Stanford, UNC and UVA on their list. So that's 11 schools, pretty hefty target list. And they've had a few different roles. They've worked in a finance startup as an accountant. They also worked as an audit associate in a food company. And now their current role is their financial analyst in a construction and real estate company. So the common thread there is kind of accounting, audit, finance in those three roles. Those three roles have comprised about five years total of full time work experience pre mba. Here they have taken the green and they scored a 332 really good GRE score. Their GPA is a 3.2. They earned that they describe from a tier 2 university in India and they describe those grades as somewhat average. They mentioned that they'd love to stay in the US after business school, ideally New York. But they're flexible as to where and they were just curious what we think. Like they want our unvarnished opinion on their profile as to whether they're going to be competitive for top programs. They do share that they want to transition into investment banking, ideally M and A, and eventually move into impact investing. They're a little concerned because they don't have any direct experience with investment banking. So they're kind of curious what we think about that. Outside of work. They've been serving in the Teach for India program for a couple of years teaching underprivileged children. They're also a UN volunteer, United nations volunteer. They lead volunteers from different countries in fundraising initiatives for education and other social causes. And they also belong to the Indian Red Cross Society, again supporting fundraising and relief efforts during natural disasters. They have a financial modeling and valuations analyst certificate. They also have a lean Six Sigma Green Belt certification, so a couple of key professional certifications. They know they're overrepresented. Alex, what do you think of this candidacy? Because there's a, you know, a number of great things here. But what do you think?
• 16:32
  Speaker B: I mean it's an interesting candidate. And one of their biggest concerns is they've got no real brand names on their cv. Right. They went to a tier two university. They're worried about that they haven't worked for a big company that's well known and they're worried about that. So, and you know, these might be legitimate concerns. I think the, the key to sort of resolving those concerns is making sure that you can show, they can show their impact and their growth wherever they've been. Right. So, so that, you know, they could work for small business, et cetera, et cetera, that the outcomes never heard of. But if they've managed to grow revenue a certain amount or they've, they've, you know, developed meaningful projects and, and so on and so forth at those firms, then it shouldn't matter that the, the ADCOM has heard of the firm before, etc. Etc. So, so, you know, to me focus on really what, what sort of impact that they've had and so forth is going to be really, really important. They say their GPA that is average doesn't stand out. That's a little bit unfortunate coming from a tier two university. But you know, how do they overcome that? They've got a massive GRE score that should in some way go to mitigate any concern that they're smart enough to be successful in top tier MBA programs. So I think they've done all the right things there in terms of getting a great GRE score. I would really hope that they're able to target the first round and transitioning into investment banking with the type of background they have should be quite doable, I would think, going to one of the top tier programs. Right. I mean, you're not going to transfer necessarily into investment banking if you're going to a top 20, top 30 program. But the sorts of programs that they're targeting, which I think are legitimate programs for a candidate like this, should provide them a very decent pathway into investment banking and schools like Johnson stand out in that regard and so forth. I like their activities outside of work to help sort of complement and sort of round out their overall profile. So I got to think with these types of schools that they're targeting, Graham, that they're going to see some success as long as they continue show that real impact and growth.
• 19:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think prepping their recommenders accordingly is, you know, obviously really important, making sure that because sometimes, you know, when you're working at a big company that has sent many people off to business school over the years, the person writing the recommendations maybe already done this song and dance and they know the drill. Right. Whereas if you're working at a small company with limited exposure to people going off to do an MBA in America. You know, there's. There maybe is a learning curve there. So I'd encourage them to work closely with the recommenders. Just make sure the recommenders, you know, have their. Have copy of their essays or at least their career goals, essay their resume and just understand the pitch that the candidate's making. But I like you. I really like this candidate. I mean, I think they have a really good test score. The GPA could be better, but it feels like five years of pretty impressive work experience, albeit not with big brand firms. And so as long as they can push, like you say, their accomplishments and impact to the fore, they should be in good shape. I did want to ask you a question. So they want to convert to investment banking. So you look at their list and you see some schools like NYU and Cornell and Columbia, even, you know, UNC and Fuqua, and you say, okay, yeah, these are schools that can help them to make that transition. I did wonder whether they have, you know, so they have Harvard and Stanford on the list. I don't know if you saw that, but they have Harvard and Stanford on the list. And I was like, oh, you know, what about Chicago, Booth or Wharton? Because neither of them are on this list. And I was thinking if your. If your goal is to convert into the sort of finance field, you know, what's. I'm trying to figure out. And maybe they have other reasons that they're really interested in HBS and Stanford. But given, you know, maybe somewhat low probability odds, I just wondered if you think they should maybe shift around their list a bit.
• 20:44
  Speaker B: I think you. You actually raise a really good point. Wharton and Wharton and Booth would. Would make a lot of sense for. For their goals. And, you know, if they target Wharton versus Harvard and Stamford, you know, yeah, Wharton may be a slight notch below, but it's clearly, you know, one of the top three. So. So yeah, you would. You would might argue that Wharton should be their reach school. And Booth. Yeah, Booth should, you know, fit right in that wheelhouse.
• 21:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. So something for them to think about. Obviously, 11 schools is a big list, and they may need to narrow that list down anyway. Again, because they're overrepresented. We do not recommend, like, oh, just apply to the really tough ones in round one and save the kind of schools with slightly higher acceptance rates around 2. That's a kind of a recipe for disaster if you're overrepresented. Right. So, yeah, they need a mix of schools in the first round, but I'm wondering if it's more like six to eight schools and not 11. Yeah. They need to think through exactly which schools can help them to achieve their goals.
• 21:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, if you're looking at, all right, which schools we talked about the very top. Right. You've got Wharton and Booth make a lot of sense. And then if you look at schools that are in that sort of top 10, top 16 in order to get that spread, you know, they've got Johnson. They've also got Columbia for the top, which makes a lot of sense. They've got Johnson and, you know, Fuqua or whatever. They would make a lot of sense. And I think TEPA is a good sort of, you know, just either, depending on who you're asking, whether they're inside that top 16 or just outside into that next tier, which is the argument I might make, is another good program for the types of goals that they have.
• 22:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you do wonder if it's like,
• 22:32
  Speaker B: you're saying, like, is Stern on their list?
• 22:34
  Speaker A: It is. Yeah, it's on the list. Yeah.
• 22:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Stern's an obvious one. Right?
• 22:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I hear you. And I think what I hear you saying is like, oh, you've got kind of Wharton, Columbia, Booth, you've got Stern, Cornell, Duke, and then maybe UNC and Tapper. Right. Or something if you want to round things out. So in any event, this is all food for thought on their side, but hopefully it helps them. And I think that you were also advising them to use the AI tool that we built to kind of check their story and give them feedback.
• 23:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, they asked me if I could give them feedback on their essay. Right. Which we don't do at Clear Admit, and I'd be doing them a disservice anyway by doing that. But if they used Ask Clear Admit, bottom and put their essay in and just ask for direct feedback, etc. Etc. They would get some really good feedback.
• 23:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'll bet. Yeah. So in any event, I want to thank them for sharing their profile, wish them the best of luck as they buckle down and get their applications in order here. Let's move on and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has five schools on the target list, and they're going to be applying to start in the fall of 27. Just like our first candidate, this person's looking at Boston University, University, Miami, nyu, Vanderbilt, and also Fordham. So those are the list of schools they're targeting. They have been working as a real estate journalist and newsletter editor. We'll get into more on that in a moment. They're thinking though of post MBA career, maybe in something else like consumer goods or. I mean, they talk about, maybe even finance or real estate, which is where their focus has been as a journalist. They have a 3.6 undergraduate GPA, but they studied philosophy with minors in journalism and history. So it's a relatively qualitative undergraduate experience. Four years of work experience. They're located in New York City. They'd love to be in any one the of of the cities where the schools they're targeting are located. So they mentioned New York, Philly, Boston, San Diego, Miami. In any event, they have a bunch of possible locations post mba. And they explained to us that they've worked for two online real estate trade publications for the last four years and they're currently a senior associate editor. They have a nuanced knowledge of many niche industry topics and trends alongside a solid grasp of economics and finance concepts. So that's what they gave us. Alex and I know we talked about this before we came on air, but what's your take on this candidate? Because it's an interesting non traditional candidate.
• 25:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Do you think they're a victim of the AI push? Right. As a journalist, I'm sure that type of role is under some degree of threat anyway. So basically, how do you make yourself more useful in this age of AI as a journalist? Either get out, which is looking like what they're doing, or they could probably go down a pathway of really getting their head around the AI stuff and becoming a leader in that space. But anyway, what do I think? I think given, as you said, their undergraduate degree is quite qualitative. As an art history major, Graham, I'm sure you're not dismissing the quality of their undergraduate experience, but, but, but certainly it seems like it's probably quite qualitative. I would want to see some quant in their background and you know, barring taking some coursework, I mean, they got a decent gpa. Right. So I'm not saying that they, they don't have the academic chops, but there's no, I'm guessing there won't be any real evidence of quant chops in their applications and that could be very problematic for MBA programs to resolve that I really would encourage them to look at taking one of the standardised tests. They haven't mentioned that they're planning to waive, but they. Nor did they mention a test score or their plan to take the test. But I think in order to maximize their opportunities in the MBA admissions space, that is get into the best programs that they could qualify for. Complementing that 3.6 GPA with a strong test score that shows quant acumen, I think would really elevate their opportunities, perhaps the schools on their target list, but maybe even looking at some other additional programs that might be more suitable. Along that way, I would also encourage them to really think long and hard about their post MBA goals because they've listed out a myriad industries, etc. Etc. Including things like venture capital. Yeah, we all want to work in venture capital, but what's the reality of that goal based off of your current experience? And I would hazard a guess that for the 95% of applicants to top tier business schools, VC is not a reality. And I would presume that this candidate would fall into that. So just a couple of big things here for me is post MBA goals and get that quant evidence into the MBA applications.
• 28:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think on the one hand I see a candidate who has four years of work experience. It's consistent around journalism, basically, but it's also business journalism. So you could say, well, they're qualitative, but they've been covering business and they have that comment they made about how, oh, I have a knowledge of a lot of topics including economics and finance. So my first thought was, wow, interesting. Kind of non traditional candidate who wants to make the leap into the business world after kind of covering it from the sidelines.
• 28:29
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 28:29
  Speaker A: Right. And then I look and I see a 3.6 GPA and I say, okay, pretty good. But then, you know, philosophy with journalism and history, and you say, well, that could be good. You know, I'm a fan of liberal arts, et cetera, but I need evidence and the test is the best way to go. And I think one of the challenges this candidate faces, they're probably when they're looking at Questrom at BU or Miami. I mean, a lot of these schools have waivers, right? So they're probably. Maybe Fordham must have one as well. So they're probably encountering a number of schools which are on their list that are kind of like, oh, test matched, we don't really care. But then the likes of a Stern or an Owen, it gets a little more nuanced. And like you're saying, I think there could be other schools available to this person if they just buckled down, took the test and worked to get a good score. Because it could really change the whole calculus of this.
• 29:19
  Speaker B: This. Exactly.
• 29:19
  Speaker A: So in any event, you know, I really, if they want to go to Stern, like, take the test, like, there's no. I really Think they should take the test. I mean this is, we need evidence of their ability to survive the curriculum in that first year, especially at business school.
• 29:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean it'll go, it'll go a long way if they've got the wherewithal and the resources to, to really prep hard and take the test. I would say don't apply in round one, apply in round two. Round two with a good standardized test. Because they're a non traditional candidate, there's no rush to get the application in round one. Like a candidate like our previous candidate from India might, might have that sort of over representation laying over the top of them. This candidate doesn't have that. So take the time. Avoid round three target. Round two, come in with a test and think long and hard about those goals.
• 30:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, the goals thing was really challenging to me too. Just too fuzzy. They need, they need a, you know, especially when you're a non traditional candidate, you gotta have a good head on your shoulders. And the one thing they didn't give us any information about is outside activity. So I really hope that they do some other things in life and you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, working for the Red Cross or something but it's something that shows that they're a dynamic individual with different interests that would, you know, contribute to the fabric of the class in a nape setting. So in any event, I wish this person the best of luck. Hopefully they hear us loud and clear. Go take the test. Reply in round two, get, get a good set of goals, you know, in your plans and they, they should have even more options than the ones they've listed here if that all goes well. So best of luck to them.
• 30:51
  Speaker B: Very good, Alex.
• 30:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, thanks Alex for picking these out. We're in summer mode, just doing two a week as we, you know, kind of work our way through the summer. But we'll, we'll be, do it all again next week if you're around.
• 31:03
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care.