Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Tanis Moore(AKA Prim Reaper) on her Work at the CCMF & Gatekeeping Feminism | Fireside Chat 251

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Tanis Moore(AKA Prim Reaper) on her Work at the CCMF & Gatekeeping Feminism | Fireside Chat 251 · Honey Badger Radio

1:26
Speaker 1: Dy whiskey, oh lucky suddenly, Hello lady, what I read?
1:44
Speaker 2: Let's begin? Indeed, all right, hello everyone, and welcome.
1:59
Speaker 1: Hello everyone. So I'm a little burned out and welcome
2:02
Speaker 1: to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian. This is
2:04
Speaker 1: the Fireside Chat and I'm joined by well, our very
2:09
Speaker 1: own prim Reaper, Tannis. Welcome to the show, Tannis, how
2:13
Speaker 1: are you good?
2:15
Speaker 3: Good? Thank you for having me on again. I know
2:17
Speaker 3: it's it's been a long time, but goodness me, it's
2:20
Speaker 3: been busy.
2:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, A lots changed, maybe okay, maybe what was the
2:26
Speaker 1: last thing you Ron? I know you you you made
2:28
Speaker 1: some appearances on HBr talk a few times with Hannah,
2:33
Speaker 1: but I don't know, it feels like it's been a while.
2:35
Speaker 1: And I know I haven't seen you in a while
2:36
Speaker 1: because I've been like kind of doing different conscious.
2:39
Speaker 3: Yeah also yeah, yeah, yeah, I know there have been
2:43
Speaker 3: a few that that Hannah have asked me on, like
2:46
Speaker 3: specifically things that pertain to my interests or my area
2:50
Speaker 3: of expertise. So yeah, yeah, yeah, and I like to
2:55
Speaker 3: when I can. It's it's you know, it's just obviously
2:57
Speaker 3: harder with the primlets now, but but I'm excited to
3:01
Speaker 3: be back for this one because I think there's some
3:04
Speaker 3: really good news coming up.
3:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm excited as well. So like,
3:12
Speaker 1: how are you? How are your kids doing? But do
3:14
Speaker 1: people know about them? Do you want to keep that secret?
3:16
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know how, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty
3:20
Speaker 3: sure most people knew about that. And in fact, I
3:22
Speaker 3: think primlet One made an appearance on a few episodes
3:26
Speaker 3: herself way back in the day. I remember her having
3:29
Speaker 3: some side commentary on some of those older videos. So yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
3:34
Speaker 3: they're they're doing well. My oldest just started kindergarten this
3:38
Speaker 3: year and the other ones two and a half. So yeah,
3:42
Speaker 3: it's busy.
3:43
Speaker 1: Household happened so fast, yes, and so not only are
3:47
Speaker 1: you now juggling little mini me's in your life and
3:52
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, uh, I don't know, just like,
3:56
Speaker 1: so things have changed so much right in this time.
3:59
Speaker 1: I think I've known you now for probably about seven
4:04
Speaker 1: years or so, I'm guessing about as long as I've
4:08
Speaker 1: known Lindsay. And I'm like Lindsay and now will be
4:10
Speaker 1: married eight years this winter. So see, yeah, it's crazy, right,
4:17
Speaker 1: but uh you you got involved with uh you know this,
4:23
Speaker 1: this whole men's rights issue. I think that your primary
4:26
Speaker 1: interests had to do with uh stuff going on with
4:29
Speaker 1: CAFE at the time. Cafe now the Canadian Center for
4:33
Speaker 1: Men and Families, and you have made some gains there.
4:38
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody here that's watching has, you know,
4:41
Speaker 1: caught up with the latest. So why don't you get
4:43
Speaker 1: us all up to speed. If we don't, we don't
4:45
Speaker 1: know what's going on with you and keV and you know,
4:48
Speaker 1: the CCFM and all of that.
4:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so okay, So it's it's funny the the
4:55
Speaker 3: timing because I actually learned of back then Cafe through
5:00
Speaker 3: you guys, right, because I had gotten into everything because
5:04
Speaker 3: of the trial way back when, and that was when
5:07
Speaker 3: I came and met you guys for the first time. Yeah, totally, yeah,
5:12
Speaker 3: And that's kind of when I started getting involved in
5:14
Speaker 3: YouTube stuff, right. But then I met Justin through you
5:20
Speaker 3: guys on one of the interviews, and so I kind
5:23
Speaker 3: of learned that there was a small branch here in
5:27
Speaker 3: you know, locally in Calgary. So I decided to get
5:30
Speaker 3: involved with them, and then I volunteered with them for years.
5:34
Speaker 3: I was actually sitting on the provincial and National Board
5:38
Speaker 3: at one point, and then you know, I became the
5:42
Speaker 3: head counselor here after that, and so I've been working
5:46
Speaker 3: as a counselor for them for two years and a
5:49
Speaker 3: little bit. Now I just completed my hours as a
5:52
Speaker 3: provisional psychologist, so now I'm a fully registered psychologist. So
5:57
Speaker 3: that's very exciting. And yeah, so now we're we're kind
6:02
Speaker 3: of just off to the races and the counseling program.
6:04
Speaker 3: But even even more than that, very very exciting news,
6:08
Speaker 3: we are actually opening up shelter for abused men and
6:13
Speaker 3: their families, which is really really Alberta. In Alberta, Yeah.
6:18
Speaker 1: So there because there are some centers in Ontario and
6:24
Speaker 1: I think it might be Ottawa or Vancouver. I can't remember,
6:30
Speaker 1: but I know Ontario has one, maybe Quebec, I'm not.
6:32
Speaker 3: You know, you no, So essentially the first shelter, specifically
6:38
Speaker 3: shelter for men fleeing abuses in Toronto. There are a
6:43
Speaker 3: few centers and a few other areas Ottawa, York and Vancouver,
6:50
Speaker 3: but they're not shelters, they're just you know, centers and
6:54
Speaker 3: they yeah, so they provide various various services. So, yeah,
6:58
Speaker 3: this is the second shelter that we're opening up here
7:02
Speaker 3: in Calgary, and and the firm date of opening is
7:06
Speaker 3: going to be beginning of November.
7:07
Speaker 2: So that's that's very really.
7:09
Speaker 1: Close too, right around the corner. Yeah, so we're making
7:12
Speaker 1: some gains, and you're going to be involved with this,
7:17
Speaker 1: like in terms of the like you with the head
7:19
Speaker 1: of a department or something with this.
7:22
Speaker 3: So I am the head of the counseling program. Because
7:27
Speaker 3: I only just became registered, I'm not qualified to actually
7:31
Speaker 3: supervise students myself yet. That's going to take a few
7:35
Speaker 3: additional years of practice. But at that point, I think
7:39
Speaker 3: kind of the expectation is that I'm going to be
7:41
Speaker 3: taking over that role as well. Right now, I'm I'm
7:46
Speaker 3: I'm mainly just running the counseling program, but I'm also
7:50
Speaker 3: running a program called the Triple P Parenting Program as well,
7:55
Speaker 3: which is a it's a it's an internationally recognized group
7:59
Speaker 3: pro and it's it's it's targeted at parents of young children,
8:03
Speaker 3: so it's it's providing various positive parenting strategies. So I think,
8:09
Speaker 3: you know, in particular, in the context of c CMF,
8:13
Speaker 3: you know a lot of the men that we see,
8:16
Speaker 3: you know, they're they're maybe new newly experiencing separation or divorce,
8:21
Speaker 3: maybe stepping into different roles as as you know, kind
8:25
Speaker 3: of more involved fathers. So a lot of the time,
8:29
Speaker 3: you know, they they may be needing some additional supports
8:32
Speaker 3: to kind of get under that role a little bit more.
8:35
Speaker 3: And so this this program is really great for them
8:38
Speaker 3: because it offers, you know, strategies for how to manage misbehavior,
8:43
Speaker 3: how to to build more connection and adjust expectations for
8:47
Speaker 3: their children. And yeah, it's it's a really great program.
8:52
Speaker 3: So we we just finished the first run of that
8:54
Speaker 3: in the end of summer here, so that that went
8:58
Speaker 3: really well.
8:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's uh, that's really exciting stuff. I'm I'm
9:05
Speaker 1: really I was just so shocked to find that you
9:08
Speaker 1: guys like accomplished that. You know, it all feels like
9:11
Speaker 1: it happens so fast. So you're you're so you're doing
9:19
Speaker 1: a You're you're doing your practice to essentially like a
9:23
Speaker 1: house to put this except unlock like this, you know,
9:27
Speaker 1: these additional responsibilities, but you have to get to this point.
9:30
Speaker 1: So is that like you're like just doing the job
9:33
Speaker 1: to do that or is this like an education process.
9:35
Speaker 1: I get to go to school too, or something.
9:38
Speaker 3: I have completed my schooling, so I do have a
9:42
Speaker 3: master's degree. So I it's the whole practice of psychology
9:47
Speaker 3: is really quite complicated because different jurisdictions have different levels
9:52
Speaker 3: of education that they're willing to accept. So here in Alberta,
9:56
Speaker 3: where we're allowed to practice full like as a full
10:00
Speaker 3: registered psychologist with just a master's degree, whereas many other
10:03
Speaker 3: places require, you know, a full PhD. If I'm being
10:08
Speaker 3: really honest with you, you know, a PhD is like
10:10
Speaker 3: a research project, right, So it's I personally fail to
10:15
Speaker 3: see how a big research project impacts directly working with clients.
10:21
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm glad that I'm in a position
10:24
Speaker 3: where I'm able to work directly with men in need.
10:28
Speaker 3: I think one of the real strengths of our program
10:30
Speaker 3: is that we are focused on men's needs from a
10:33
Speaker 3: strength based place, right, We're not coming at them from
10:37
Speaker 3: a place of blame or shame, as so many other
10:42
Speaker 3: programs that purport to support men often do. You're never
10:48
Speaker 3: going to see us coming at any of our clients
10:50
Speaker 3: talking about, oh, you know, like you just need to
10:54
Speaker 3: change these elements of yourself in order to be mentally well. Right,
10:58
Speaker 3: That's that's something that we're very explicitly against, right, And
11:03
Speaker 3: this is something.
11:03
Speaker 1: That you have talked about on your own channel a lot.
11:07
Speaker 1: I assume, like I see, you know, like APA Guidelines series,
11:12
Speaker 1: and that I believe that's kind of what so are
11:15
Speaker 1: the APA guidelines. Is that like a normal part of
11:18
Speaker 1: the programs in Canada as well, So something like parallel
11:22
Speaker 1: to that.
11:24
Speaker 3: I mean, I know that the APA is kind of
11:27
Speaker 3: more you know, like a south of the border kind
11:30
Speaker 3: of thing, more more firmly, but I do know that,
11:34
Speaker 3: you know, it's still something like the attitudes still kind
11:38
Speaker 3: of permeate through to other practices of psychology, right, And
11:42
Speaker 3: so I think it's really important that whenever we see
11:47
Speaker 3: these kinds of attitudes that have the potential to cause
11:50
Speaker 3: harm or like, it's it's it's an ethical obligation to
11:53
Speaker 3: be challenging them, right, Like you actually read the Code
11:57
Speaker 3: of Ethics for psychology, it's that we should challenge that
12:01
Speaker 3: sort of thing. And I'm sure they didn't mean to.
12:04
Speaker 3: I'm sure all of the research kind of you know,
12:09
Speaker 3: is echoing these sorts of attitudes. But you know, if
12:13
Speaker 3: you're on the ground and working with men directly, you
12:17
Speaker 3: I think you have much more of a feel for
12:21
Speaker 3: how bad that stuff is, right, you know, you guys
12:24
Speaker 3: would know better than anybody else.
12:26
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, you know, I'm always like checking myself
12:30
Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm not I guess, like you
12:33
Speaker 1: know two in that mindset of knowing exactly what it's
12:38
Speaker 1: about and not challenging it because you know, you never know,
12:41
Speaker 1: I could be wrong. Maybe things have changed. Maybe you know,
12:44
Speaker 1: the way that we do things in the United States
12:46
Speaker 1: is not the same as the way we do it
12:47
Speaker 1: in Canada or the UK. But when I spoke to
12:51
Speaker 1: Martin Seeger and doctor John Barry and Phil Mitchell, they're all,
12:58
Speaker 1: you know, they all practice these things in the United Kingdom,
13:01
Speaker 1: and they were all like, oh no, no, we don't
13:03
Speaker 1: call it the APA, but they essentially all kind of,
13:07
Speaker 1: you know, mirror each other. Like the standards of the
13:11
Speaker 1: UK and the APA are basically the same, so it's
13:14
Speaker 1: built on the same foundation. So that's why I was
13:17
Speaker 1: asking about Canada. You know, I didn't want to assume,
13:20
Speaker 1: but if I figured, you know, uh, we all kind
13:23
Speaker 1: of set standards for each.
13:24
Speaker 3: Other, right, Yes, definitely.
13:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I got a super a super chow. I
13:29
Speaker 1: want to read really quick from Richard Bierre. He gives
13:32
Speaker 1: us five dollars and just says, Prim, Okay, thank you
13:36
Speaker 1: for that, and but okay, so I want to get
13:40
Speaker 1: into the real thing that I thought was kind of
13:43
Speaker 1: exciting other than like the fact that the shelter's opening,
13:45
Speaker 1: I think that's fantastic. I hope that you know, there's
13:49
Speaker 1: gonna be more of this as time goes on. But
13:53
Speaker 1: you know, this always presents a challenge. Obviously, the the
13:57
Speaker 1: whole field of help for men with it is, you know,
14:02
Speaker 1: in the material sense or more even more so in
14:06
Speaker 1: the sort of like mental health or uh you know,
14:10
Speaker 1: services or hospitality oriented context. You have this you know,
14:17
Speaker 1: concern of ideological pushing you you were kind of alluding
14:20
Speaker 1: to it just now that you know, like do we
14:23
Speaker 1: even do is it even worth it for men to
14:25
Speaker 1: get therapy? If therapists are going to be you know,
14:30
Speaker 1: applying this kind of well, I don't know how else
14:34
Speaker 1: to describe it except feminist lens on them that essentially
14:37
Speaker 1: blames them for their own problems. And when I talk
14:40
Speaker 1: to you in that we did the meetup and Prim
14:43
Speaker 1: was there, so you should have went. If you didn't go,
14:45
Speaker 1: so you got to see her kids and and her,
14:48
Speaker 1: which is probably the main reason to go. Let's be
14:50
Speaker 1: honest and my goodness, red. Okay, but you were and
14:59
Speaker 1: I were chat a little bit, and you said that
15:02
Speaker 1: you're hoping to be able to use your you know,
15:05
Speaker 1: sort of position to really be scrutinizing about who gets
15:10
Speaker 1: to do the job or at least what I don't know,
15:13
Speaker 1: techniques they use or whatever. So tell us a little
15:16
Speaker 1: bit about about that some more.
15:18
Speaker 3: Sure, yes, regard for sure. Okay, So I think there's
15:21
Speaker 3: actually two things that I can say to that. You know,
15:25
Speaker 3: as the the counseling program lead within CCMF Alberta, you know,
15:32
Speaker 3: I'm I'm responsible for we we will occasionally have students
15:37
Speaker 3: come on and practice for their their practicum at our agency.
15:42
Speaker 3: Right anybody who's entering into the field of psychology, they
15:46
Speaker 3: have to do a five hundred hour practicum in their
15:49
Speaker 3: master's degree. So, you know, in in being an organization
15:55
Speaker 3: that accepts these these students, I am responsible for doing
15:58
Speaker 3: the interviews to kind of see, you know, who is
16:01
Speaker 3: going to be a good fit for practicing with our organization.
16:05
Speaker 3: So you know, I can search in the cover letters
16:10
Speaker 3: we receive for attitudes that it's like, okay, so you know,
16:14
Speaker 3: you're somebody who's excited to be here, who wants to
16:18
Speaker 3: help men, you know, from their perspectives and treat them
16:22
Speaker 3: with respect and really provide the support that they need.
16:26
Speaker 3: Or you know, we also see some examples where people
16:31
Speaker 3: are saying, oh, you know, I'm I'm excited to help
16:34
Speaker 3: men because I want to be able to teach men
16:37
Speaker 3: how to express their emotions, and you know exactly what
16:40
Speaker 3: I'm talking about, right, And it's it's you know, I
16:44
Speaker 3: think to some people it's a it's a subtle difference,
16:46
Speaker 3: but to me, it stands out like a big red
16:49
Speaker 3: flag because it really does make a difference if you're
16:52
Speaker 3: going into you know, a counseling practice thinking I can
16:57
Speaker 3: fix these people, you know, these are broken people that
17:00
Speaker 3: I have the power to fix, versus going into it
17:04
Speaker 3: with a collaborative lens, thinking, you know, how can I
17:07
Speaker 3: help these people in the way that they want using
17:09
Speaker 3: my skills? Right, Like, it's it's a it's a whole
17:12
Speaker 3: different focus. And so you know, I really think it's
17:17
Speaker 3: a it's a very important position to occupy because you know,
17:21
Speaker 3: not only is my own practice obviously impacting my clients,
17:26
Speaker 3: but in a way, you know, if I'm selecting the
17:29
Speaker 3: students that are going to be practicing for us, there's
17:32
Speaker 3: there's kind of an extra layer of responsibility there, right,
17:37
Speaker 3: So I think it's so important to be making sure
17:41
Speaker 3: that we're the people that we have at our organization
17:45
Speaker 3: or all people that are coming from the right place.
17:49
Speaker 3: And so that's kind of one one path. But then
17:53
Speaker 3: the other path is actually kind of external to the
17:56
Speaker 3: agency as well.
17:57
Speaker 1: Right.
17:57
Speaker 3: We will often have, you know, meetings with other organizations,
18:04
Speaker 3: will put on presentations for people that kind of are
18:08
Speaker 3: interested in what we may be doing and or maybe
18:12
Speaker 3: kind of in a field adjacent. So an example is,
18:15
Speaker 3: you know, we we've been having plenty of talks with
18:18
Speaker 3: other shelters that are targeted towards you know, female victims
18:21
Speaker 3: of domestic abuse, right, And so when we have these meetings,
18:27
Speaker 3: you know, I can go into them talking about Okay,
18:31
Speaker 3: so here's the kind of does and don'ts of supporting
18:35
Speaker 3: men who may or may not be coming through your programs, right,
18:39
Speaker 3: because a lot of people, you know that, as I said,
18:42
Speaker 3: they're not really thinking about it. And there are several
18:46
Speaker 3: dominant narratives unfortunately in society that many people who are
18:50
Speaker 3: not thinking critically about it just think, oh, yeah, this
18:53
Speaker 3: is normal and this is helpful, and so we can
18:56
Speaker 3: go in and we can be like, well, actually, yeah,
19:02
Speaker 3: maybe not so much.
19:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so these this is a you're making a
19:10
Speaker 1: really good point. I want to go back to the
19:12
Speaker 1: first part of this. Do you think that I don't
19:18
Speaker 1: know how this works? It's why I'm like, you know,
19:20
Speaker 1: I'm kind of on the outside here. But when you
19:22
Speaker 1: are sort of like you know, structuring the whole process
19:29
Speaker 1: of like helping these men with the shelters, involving the
19:31
Speaker 1: therapy and like the services and looking at what their
19:36
Speaker 1: experiences and taking that into account, do you have like
19:39
Speaker 1: a basic sort of framework or like program that is
19:46
Speaker 1: sort of like saying, Okay, here's how we help men
19:49
Speaker 1: or is it not really the sex of the person
19:53
Speaker 1: that matters as much as the individual experiences and removing
19:57
Speaker 1: a kind of you know, strange presumptions about men, because
20:02
Speaker 1: I think that like in a way, let's say, and
20:06
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be delicate only because I don't want
20:08
Speaker 1: to come across as ideolgical myself. So if you are
20:13
Speaker 1: using the APA guidelines, they're built on a kind of
20:16
Speaker 1: academic feminist model that operates under a lot of assumptions
20:21
Speaker 1: about what it means to be a man and you know,
20:25
Speaker 1: what it means to be a woman, and it presumes
20:27
Speaker 1: that women's ways of healing, women's ways of you know,
20:32
Speaker 1: recognizing trauma and stuff, are superior to men's ways. And
20:38
Speaker 1: so what I'm what I worry about, and I'm sorry
20:42
Speaker 1: if I'm getting a little too like Spurgey on this
20:45
Speaker 1: is that, on the one hand, I do think that
20:48
Speaker 1: there is something about the way men do things that
20:50
Speaker 1: is different. But on the other hand, I don't even
20:53
Speaker 1: I almost don't want to frame it as a man thing,
20:56
Speaker 1: but instead like say that there is no real one
21:01
Speaker 1: size fits all answer and rather, you know, we want
21:04
Speaker 1: to look at the individual person and there, while there
21:08
Speaker 1: will probably still be like you know, deviations from what
21:13
Speaker 1: we consider the norm for women in men, it will
21:16
Speaker 1: still be sort of like, you know, it's not like
21:19
Speaker 1: a simple template you just put it on every guy,
21:22
Speaker 1: because you know, like women, every man is different. And
21:25
Speaker 1: then one of the reason why I say that is
21:26
Speaker 1: because a lot of mental health services for women aren't
21:29
Speaker 1: really helping them either. So like that women are on
21:32
Speaker 1: a lot of medications and they're you know what I mean,
21:34
Speaker 1: So they have their own problem. So I don't know
21:37
Speaker 1: what if you want to say.
21:38
Speaker 3: Anything to that, Yeah, no, And you know it's funny
21:41
Speaker 3: you should say that, because in fact, I often say,
21:44
Speaker 3: you know, in my introduction to new clients that my
21:46
Speaker 3: approach is very much not a one size fits all approach.
21:50
Speaker 3: You know, I think that you know it certainly like
21:53
Speaker 3: we can say that there are trends that you can
21:57
Speaker 3: see in supporting what's supporting women versus supporting men may
22:02
Speaker 3: look like, you know, more on average, I guess. So
22:05
Speaker 3: for example, it's it's it's more common that men will
22:10
Speaker 3: will kind of want to come to therapy being very
22:12
Speaker 3: solution focused, whereas more commonly, you know, women will will
22:17
Speaker 3: want to come and talk about like how they're they're
22:19
Speaker 3: feeling about certain things. Right, But this is absolutely not
22:23
Speaker 3: meant to be like a hard line in this end.
22:26
Speaker 3: I have obviously many men who actually wish to talk
22:31
Speaker 3: in great detail about their feelings about certain scenarios or
22:34
Speaker 3: you know, want to explore their feelings not having had
22:39
Speaker 3: many opportunities to express them in great detail due to
22:43
Speaker 3: the people around them not being very accepting or something
22:46
Speaker 3: like that. Like there there are examples where that does happen, right,
22:51
Speaker 3: like it. But but I think the key thing that
22:54
Speaker 3: you really want to avoid in therapy is assumptions. And
22:58
Speaker 3: that's one of the reasons why I think the APA
23:01
Speaker 3: guidelines on men are so toxic. Right, It's because it's
23:05
Speaker 3: basically just breeding assumptions. It's like, here is what you
23:10
Speaker 3: should assume about how men do things. Here's what you
23:13
Speaker 3: should assume about male privilege or toxic masculinity. Right, And
23:18
Speaker 3: if you're going into a counseling room meeting a client
23:21
Speaker 3: for the first time with assumptions, you're already damaging the alliance,
23:26
Speaker 3: in my opinion, which is critical to successful therapy.
23:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And when a man goes into therapy, you know,
23:34
Speaker 1: it's already an extremely challenging thing to get them to
23:38
Speaker 1: like say okay, I need help. So that's already hard.
23:41
Speaker 1: And I think that we could work on ways to
23:44
Speaker 1: make men feel more welcome to do that, like more
23:49
Speaker 1: open to doing that. But a lot of it, there
23:51
Speaker 1: are a lot of the reasons why they don't is
23:53
Speaker 1: because they assume that there is going to be hostility
23:56
Speaker 1: or there's going to be a desire to transform them
23:58
Speaker 1: on a fundamental level to be nothing like themselves, which
24:01
Speaker 1: is what the APA guidelines kind of you know, threaten
24:04
Speaker 1: to do. And men are already very yeah, men are
24:07
Speaker 1: already really like wary of that because it's not like
24:10
Speaker 1: every man knows what the APA guidelines are. Like if
24:12
Speaker 1: I would to an average guy and I told him,
24:14
Speaker 1: you know what the APA guidelines are for men, you know,
24:17
Speaker 1: for male treatment, they wouldn't know. But but if you said,
24:20
Speaker 1: would you go see a therapist if you felt like,
24:24
Speaker 1: you know, you have problems, they would probably say no.
24:25
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of it is not you know,
24:27
Speaker 1: they'll they'll they'll say it's because you know, men are
24:31
Speaker 1: macho and and they're they need to prove that they're strong.
24:34
Speaker 1: But I think that that's not it. I think that men,
24:37
Speaker 1: for one, they they don't want to be a burden
24:41
Speaker 1: on people. So if they if they can, that's why
24:44
Speaker 1: you said, they come in solution focused. If they can,
24:47
Speaker 1: they're just like, I just want to fix the problem
24:48
Speaker 1: so I can get back to you know, being like,
24:52
Speaker 1: you know, a value to someone. So one of them
24:54
Speaker 1: is they don't want to be a burden on anybody.
24:56
Speaker 1: The other thing is they are they are afraid of
25:01
Speaker 1: thumb judgment, especially if the therapists are women, because even
25:05
Speaker 1: though the feminists will say, you know, that you should
25:09
Speaker 1: express your feelings more and that you should cry more
25:11
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and that they don't ever say
25:15
Speaker 1: women will admire this, because the truth is is that
25:18
Speaker 1: men are afraid that women will find it disgusting. And
25:21
Speaker 1: the real truth of it is is that a lot
25:23
Speaker 1: of women will so because they need men to be
25:26
Speaker 1: strong for them in many cases. So this is like
25:29
Speaker 1: a hard thing, but I think getting like it just
25:32
Speaker 1: comes down to getting men to feel like they can
25:36
Speaker 1: look for help and that that help is actually there
25:39
Speaker 1: to help them, you know, and is there for that.
25:41
Speaker 1: And then it comes down to like, you know, not
25:44
Speaker 1: seeing the way men typically heal or try to heal
25:48
Speaker 1: as inferior or or a bad sort of you know,
25:53
Speaker 1: diagnosed or not diagnosis, a bad solution to their problem
25:57
Speaker 1: in the same way that women's ways of healing, which
26:00
Speaker 1: is what you said, women like to talk about it
26:02
Speaker 1: because what they're doing when women talk about it, they're
26:04
Speaker 1: kind of working it out themselves, you know, like if
26:06
Speaker 1: I let my if Lindsay has a problem and like
26:11
Speaker 1: with her job, and she's like rancying on me bout
26:13
Speaker 1: something at her job. I would just let her say
26:16
Speaker 1: it and I'll just you know, I'll just uh huh
26:18
Speaker 1: uh huh, yep, I get it, and I won't. I'm
26:21
Speaker 1: not just saying that like I'm listening, you know. Oh
26:23
Speaker 1: yeah he was. That was a shitty thing for him
26:26
Speaker 1: to do. And then she works it out on her
26:28
Speaker 1: own and she's like, Okay, this is what I'm gonna
26:29
Speaker 1: do next time. They're like, okay, great. So it's just
26:31
Speaker 1: you know, it's just different.
26:34
Speaker 3: Yeah that so yeah, well, and you know, it's it's
26:37
Speaker 3: funny because they say, oh, you know, there's there's so
26:40
Speaker 3: much stigma against men getting mental health help. Men men
26:44
Speaker 3: just don't want to reach out. Men just don't want
26:46
Speaker 3: to talk about their problems. But it's like, that's that's
26:49
Speaker 3: a load of nonsense if I'm being really honest, Because
26:53
Speaker 3: if you provide men with a space that respects them,
26:58
Speaker 3: that that you know, believes what they're going through, that
27:01
Speaker 3: treats them with dignity, they will absolutely talk about what's
27:05
Speaker 3: going on for them. You know, they will absolutely release
27:09
Speaker 3: some of that burden if they feel like it is
27:11
Speaker 3: a safe space that is not going to belittle them
27:14
Speaker 3: for what they're going through. So being able to provide
27:18
Speaker 3: that is so important because I think that if if more,
27:22
Speaker 3: if more people took that approach of you know, not
27:25
Speaker 3: not acting like you know, men are somehow deficient for
27:29
Speaker 3: having weaknesses or anything else like that, then you know,
27:34
Speaker 3: you you'd see a lot more men opening up. But
27:36
Speaker 3: you know, like you said, unfortunately, a lot of people,
27:40
Speaker 3: a lot of women especially, will treat men like there's
27:44
Speaker 3: something wrong with them.
27:46
Speaker 1: You know.
27:46
Speaker 3: It's like we've talked about this many times before when
27:49
Speaker 3: I was more prolific on the ship, on the shows, right,
27:52
Speaker 3: it's it's like, oh, you know you you should express
27:55
Speaker 3: your emotions. Oh but not that one, that one's scary.
27:58
Speaker 3: Oh not that one that makes me, you know, turned off.
28:01
Speaker 2: Right.
28:01
Speaker 3: And it's just like, for Pete's sakes, you can't say
28:05
Speaker 3: that you support men's mental health on one hand and
28:08
Speaker 3: then act like that on the other. Doesn't work.
28:11
Speaker 1: You can't put all these barriers up and be like, okay,
28:13
Speaker 1: express yourself. Wait, let me put I mean build a
28:16
Speaker 1: fence around you.
28:16
Speaker 3: Okay, now asterisk.
28:22
Speaker 1: So when you get like, I don't know, have you
28:24
Speaker 1: do you do like interviews to sort of vet people like,
28:27
Speaker 1: how does that work?
28:29
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, like we have interviews, Like usually when
28:32
Speaker 3: we start accepting new students, will we'll have an interview
28:36
Speaker 3: to sort of kind of assess some of their attitudes. Right,
28:41
Speaker 3: So it's like, you know, not only exploring like whatever
28:45
Speaker 3: different counseling models they may use, because there are a
28:48
Speaker 3: lot of different counseling models out there, like you know,
28:52
Speaker 3: cognitive behavioral therapy, solution focused therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy. Like,
28:58
Speaker 3: everybody has their own kind of way of practicing, and
29:02
Speaker 3: the field of psychology is not necessarily like oh, you know,
29:07
Speaker 3: there's there's one way that you should practice in order
29:10
Speaker 3: to be effective. It's very there's a lot of leeway
29:13
Speaker 3: involved with that. There. The one document that everybody is
29:18
Speaker 3: expected to follow is like the Code of Ethics. That's
29:21
Speaker 3: kind of like the gold standard, and that's kind of
29:25
Speaker 3: that in itself is a different thing from things like
29:27
Speaker 3: you know, the APA Guidelines aspirational.
29:31
Speaker 1: More like yeah, that sounds a little bit more like
29:34
Speaker 1: principle like you know above that.
29:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so you know, like I'll explore
29:41
Speaker 3: about what models and things like that that they practice from.
29:44
Speaker 3: But then you know, I'll also have questions involved, like
29:47
Speaker 3: you know, kind of assessing what do you think are
29:50
Speaker 3: some of the key problems impacting men's mental health these days?
29:54
Speaker 1: Right?
29:54
Speaker 3: Or you know, what are your attitudes towards supporting men?
29:58
Speaker 3: Like what what does that look like in your mind? Right?
30:01
Speaker 3: Just to kind of see the kinds of answers that
30:04
Speaker 3: people will give, because you'll you'll see the people you
30:09
Speaker 3: know that that's are in it for like a real
30:13
Speaker 3: passion and a real desire to help men versus people
30:16
Speaker 3: who you know, maybe have like ideologies that are not compatible.
30:23
Speaker 1: Or they're just kind of following like what they learn.
30:25
Speaker 1: Because if you just go to university, you're probably gonna
30:28
Speaker 1: get that. You know that that's sort of more well,
30:32
Speaker 1: like we said that more ideological view. It doesn't necessarily
30:35
Speaker 1: mean that their ideologues is just like it's what they
30:37
Speaker 1: were taught and they're just sort of regurgitating that, like,
30:40
Speaker 1: Oh I heard this and I'm just gonna say it.
30:42
Speaker 1: You know, Well, what's the uh, I'm coming across a
30:47
Speaker 1: little low am I let me see myself a little bit. No,
30:52
Speaker 1: it's all right, I'm just I'm not that close to
30:55
Speaker 1: my microphone. Okay, So what was gonna say, oh, I
31:00
Speaker 1: got a super chat. Let me just read it really quick.
31:02
Speaker 1: Simps for prim Club represent high from Jake for a
31:05
Speaker 1: dollar ninety nine, Thank you Anemic Royalty. Okay, So what
31:12
Speaker 1: are so how many have you done like a lot already,
31:15
Speaker 1: like interviews and stuff, and what is the general Like
31:18
Speaker 1: what kind of things are people saying regarding those questions.
31:22
Speaker 1: I'm curious about the sort of different kinds of responses,
31:25
Speaker 1: like how often do you get the sort of general
31:28
Speaker 1: you know, toxic masculinity type narratives versus something that's a
31:32
Speaker 1: little bit more curious, you know, or or interested in
31:36
Speaker 1: the what's behind it or it maybe even pick something
31:39
Speaker 1: up from a Phil Mitchell or doctor John Berry.
31:42
Speaker 3: Well, you know, to be to be honest, I very
31:45
Speaker 3: rarely get answers by the time I'm at the interview stage.
31:51
Speaker 3: Usually I have filtered out a lot of the stuff
31:54
Speaker 3: that is really egregious if I'm being totally honest, Like
31:58
Speaker 3: a lot of people will kind of have those tells
32:01
Speaker 3: in the cover letter. So yeah, so so I'll be
32:06
Speaker 3: kind of reading through that and then you know, this
32:10
Speaker 3: is our third year of taking students, so so we
32:13
Speaker 3: actually haven't you know, had a lot of students come
32:16
Speaker 3: through the program. Yet we're still pretty small, so we
32:20
Speaker 3: only take students in the fall to winter semester. Right. So,
32:25
Speaker 3: usually you'll see counseling practicums go through approximately eight month cycles, right,
32:32
Speaker 3: because that's usually how long their programs will run them for. So, like,
32:37
Speaker 3: really big counseling organizations will have one that runs from
32:40
Speaker 3: September to April, one that runs from you know, January
32:44
Speaker 3: to September, and then one that runs from April to
32:47
Speaker 3: January or whatever they wind up doing it, right, and
32:50
Speaker 3: so they'll have a constant stream of students running through.
32:53
Speaker 3: We can really only support the September to April ones
32:58
Speaker 3: right now, and we only have the capacity at the
33:01
Speaker 3: moment because we're still so small. Believe it or not,
33:04
Speaker 3: nobody wants to fund men's organizations unfortunately, I know, right,
33:11
Speaker 3: but but yeah, So anyway to kind of return back
33:14
Speaker 3: to your question, by the time I'm getting to the
33:17
Speaker 3: interview stages with people, you know, I'll usually have a
33:21
Speaker 3: pretty good a pretty good run of responses that are
33:26
Speaker 3: not involved with the toxic masculinity element. So at that point,
33:31
Speaker 3: you know, will will either have people answering, you know,
33:34
Speaker 3: kind of more generic that they're they're they're just kind
33:38
Speaker 3: of wanting to help men be able to express themselves
33:42
Speaker 3: versus people who you know, have maybe had experiences and
33:45
Speaker 3: who think, oh, you know, like I have lots of
33:49
Speaker 3: male family members that that I really care about, and
33:52
Speaker 3: I never want to see any men suffer like they've suffered.
33:57
Speaker 3: You know. Oftentimes you'll see people who have a male
34:00
Speaker 3: family member who has gone through some of the things
34:02
Speaker 3: that that you know, we've experienced frequently in our organization,
34:07
Speaker 3: and you can see that that passion to want to
34:10
Speaker 3: work against that kind of thing. And so it's I
34:14
Speaker 3: think having that kind of commitment is a really big,
34:18
Speaker 3: a really big thing, you know it It really does
34:22
Speaker 3: kind of separate the weed from the chaff in terms
34:25
Speaker 3: of who's going to be a good counselor.
34:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and is this for these people that are entering
34:31
Speaker 1: this is this paid work or is this like volunteer work?
34:35
Speaker 3: So for for the students, this is usually most practicums
34:40
Speaker 3: are not paid positions. You know. It's it's I we
34:45
Speaker 3: we we kind of all have to go through them.
34:47
Speaker 3: I I had an unpaid practicum myself way back when.
34:50
Speaker 3: It is that yeah, yeah, so we all kind of
34:57
Speaker 3: have to go through that, and then you know, to
34:59
Speaker 3: be a provisional psychologist, you have to do a certain
35:03
Speaker 3: number of supervised hours, during which time you're usually paying
35:08
Speaker 3: said supervisor to give you said supervision. You have to
35:12
Speaker 3: write a bunch of licensing exams as well, so there's
35:15
Speaker 3: there's a whole kind of stepped process to get to
35:19
Speaker 3: the sort of the top of the pile there.
35:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So so the incentives, that's why I was
35:27
Speaker 1: wondering if there's no monetary incentive to go into this.
35:31
Speaker 1: So it's either people are doing it just to get
35:33
Speaker 1: some you know, make progress on their internship, or they're
35:38
Speaker 1: genuinely interested in this particular you know, field or whatever
35:43
Speaker 1: they they do. Many of them know that this is
35:46
Speaker 1: kind of an underserved area, do you Oh, you.
35:51
Speaker 3: Know, definitely many people who come in with any sort
35:54
Speaker 3: of passion for the topic will mention that. You know,
35:57
Speaker 3: they'll be like, oh, I I was surprised to see
36:01
Speaker 3: this organization focuses on men, and that was so exciting, right,
36:05
Speaker 3: you know that kind of thing. Oh, I have people
36:08
Speaker 3: that I could refer to these programs, right, because we
36:12
Speaker 3: we do have obviously more than just the counseling program.
36:15
Speaker 3: We've got other peer led programs as well, right, so
36:19
Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, there's lots of different lots of different
36:22
Speaker 3: supports that we're we're providing and that.
36:25
Speaker 1: And the So you said that it's opening officially in
36:29
Speaker 1: early November.
36:30
Speaker 3: The shelter is a shelter. The shelter, right, because we
36:34
Speaker 3: have been running for quite a long time. I think
36:38
Speaker 3: the Alberta branch, I think it opened up in twenty sixteen.
36:42
Speaker 1: If I'm not it was a few years ago, because
36:45
Speaker 1: I think for a while I believe that. Well, we
36:49
Speaker 1: had justin on you know, a couple times talking about that.
36:53
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him in a while, and I think
36:55
Speaker 1: Monique was working with you guys for a bit, But
36:58
Speaker 1: I might have that wrong. Yes, was right, because now
37:00
Speaker 1: she's doing something about parental alienation. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
37:05
Speaker 1: I remember that for sure. Do you how do you
37:09
Speaker 1: feel about like has it how's it been doing since
37:12
Speaker 1: it started in twenty sixteen. Are you guys seeing any growth?
37:15
Speaker 3: Oh definitely, oh yeah, massively.
37:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
37:18
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, back back in twenty sixteen, like it was,
37:22
Speaker 3: it was so much smaller and almost everybody was like
37:26
Speaker 3: a volunteer, and you know, we're just trying to get
37:30
Speaker 3: the ideas out there, and we're swimming against the current
37:34
Speaker 3: of people kind of dismissing us as, oh, you know,
37:37
Speaker 3: you're you're all a bunch of misogynists or an MRI
37:41
Speaker 3: or yeah yeah, far right, yeah yeah. And then we
37:47
Speaker 3: had Beth Barbary come on and she was actually on
37:51
Speaker 3: one of the HBr shows one time way back when,
37:54
Speaker 3: but we had her come on as an executive director
37:56
Speaker 3: for a while there, and she really did a really
37:59
Speaker 3: great job, you know, networking around and kind of getting
38:02
Speaker 3: the name out there and proving that we were doing
38:05
Speaker 3: legitimate work. And then she moved on and we now
38:10
Speaker 3: have a gentleman called Bill Fitzsimmons working as our executive director,
38:14
Speaker 3: and he is also really great, you know, super aware of,
38:20
Speaker 3: you know, the kinds of attitudes that we're talking about
38:22
Speaker 3: and the importance of challenging them. But he's also doing
38:27
Speaker 3: a really good job in kind of helping to get
38:31
Speaker 3: us known. The amount of growth in the programs that
38:35
Speaker 3: we've had has been phenomenal. You know, it's really exciting
38:39
Speaker 3: that we're getting to a point of having this shelter
38:42
Speaker 3: this coming November, because I know, when we got the
38:45
Speaker 3: shelter over in Toronto. That was when a lot more
38:49
Speaker 3: people started to take the program seriously and recognize the
38:54
Speaker 3: importance of the work that we're doing. So I'm hoping
38:57
Speaker 3: the same will be true here and that we'll have
39:00
Speaker 3: more people reaching out to kind of support us and
39:04
Speaker 3: you know, recognize what we're doing.
39:06
Speaker 1: Wow, well it sounds great. It sounds like I mean,
39:11
Speaker 1: all I can say is hopefully Earl Silverman, you know,
39:15
Speaker 1: it means that his work wasn't in vain because you
39:17
Speaker 1: guys are making some progress. So yeah, so like, uh,
39:21
Speaker 1: it's coming up really quick here. We're like, you know
39:25
Speaker 1: what at the midway point in October, so we're talking
39:29
Speaker 1: only a few weeks away. Yeah, do you guys have like,
39:34
Speaker 1: you know, I have an idea of what the show
39:35
Speaker 1: was gonna be, Like, Like how big is it? What
39:37
Speaker 1: is it going to you know, what is it going
39:39
Speaker 1: to have? What does it provide? Do you have a
39:42
Speaker 1: queue of people waiting to get in? Like I don't know,
39:44
Speaker 1: I'm curious.
39:45
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's it's basically a small little apartment building.
39:51
Speaker 3: I believe, if I'm not fully mistaken, there's like eight
39:53
Speaker 3: little separate apartments in there. So you know, we we
39:57
Speaker 3: we own the building, so that's that's really act. So
40:00
Speaker 3: we're hoping to kind.
40:01
Speaker 1: Of are they like studios, like bed bathroom kind of.
40:06
Speaker 3: We have some bachelor suites and I believe we also
40:09
Speaker 3: have some one bedrooms and I think depending on demand,
40:13
Speaker 3: they might try and you know, divide up some of
40:15
Speaker 3: those bigger spaces so that they can house more people.
40:18
Speaker 3: But you know, it's it's obviously going to depend on
40:22
Speaker 3: kind of how things go. Right in I know in
40:25
Speaker 3: Toronto they had quite a wait list, so there really
40:29
Speaker 3: was a lot of demand for it in the end,
40:32
Speaker 3: which you know, it just shows the importance of the program,
40:36
Speaker 3: right and we'll see if the same thing happens here, Yeah,
40:40
Speaker 3: for sure.
40:40
Speaker 1: So and then is it just apartments? It's not like
40:43
Speaker 1: a I don't know, I don't know what I'm thinking of,
40:45
Speaker 1: but some some kind of cause when I was when
40:49
Speaker 1: I was doing my internship, this was in like twenty
40:52
Speaker 1: ten or something. One of the things I was doing,
40:55
Speaker 1: and it was weird because I was going to an
40:57
Speaker 1: art school, but I was essentially working with children at
41:02
Speaker 1: a shelter and I was teaching them how to draw.
41:06
Speaker 1: That was sort of I was doing like art teacher
41:08
Speaker 1: stuff with these young kids. And it was at a
41:11
Speaker 1: church that was also a shelter, and there were these
41:14
Speaker 1: you know, women who were there, and they were women
41:17
Speaker 1: that they were battered women, but they were also women
41:19
Speaker 1: that struggled with substance abuse, like they were alcoholic women
41:23
Speaker 1: or drug addict women. And they had children, and some
41:26
Speaker 1: of them very young children. And so while these women
41:30
Speaker 1: were in a kind of like group session, I was
41:33
Speaker 1: like watching me and a few other interns were watching
41:36
Speaker 1: the kids and hanging around with them, spending time with them.
41:39
Speaker 1: And so it got me presuming that shelters. I mean,
41:42
Speaker 1: I know this was a church, so maybe that's a
41:44
Speaker 1: big difference too. And I know that what you guys
41:47
Speaker 1: are doing is not that, But is there like you know,
41:50
Speaker 1: sort of like a I don't know, like a cafeteria
41:53
Speaker 1: or something like an area where the guys come together
41:55
Speaker 1: and it can kind of hang out with each other,
41:56
Speaker 1: you know, where men can sort of like organically form
41:59
Speaker 1: their own life spaces. You know.
42:01
Speaker 3: I don't want hundred percent know if there's going to
42:04
Speaker 3: be a shared kitchen. I know I know there is
42:06
Speaker 3: in Toronto. I haven't been inside the building that we
42:12
Speaker 3: that we purchased in Alberta. But I know they're they're
42:16
Speaker 3: working on, you know, getting people into to paint it
42:20
Speaker 3: right away here and try and get it, you know,
42:22
Speaker 3: like fit for people to come in. I know there's
42:25
Speaker 3: like a like a basement area I think where they're
42:28
Speaker 3: there may at some time come potential for meetings down there,
42:32
Speaker 3: but we're not one hundred percent sure. And there's also
42:36
Speaker 3: some like zoning restrictions on what exactly we're allowed to
42:39
Speaker 3: use the space for of course, so you know, we
42:42
Speaker 3: don't want to run a foul of any like city
42:45
Speaker 3: restrictions or anything like that. But but there's certainly a
42:49
Speaker 3: lot of potential which is really exciting, and we're we're
42:52
Speaker 3: we're hoping to to kind of expand and make it,
42:56
Speaker 3: you know more of a full fledged office where we
42:58
Speaker 3: can kind of run service is out of as well
43:01
Speaker 3: as have as a shelter.
43:03
Speaker 1: Right So yeah, yeah, oh well that's that sounds awesome.
43:06
Speaker 1: And how is it being paid for by? Is it
43:10
Speaker 1: just purely donations or is it their state funds going
43:15
Speaker 1: into it? Is it kind of a mish mash?
43:18
Speaker 3: So you know, we do rely a lot on you know,
43:22
Speaker 3: donations from just like you know, your your average Joe,
43:27
Speaker 3: so hey, hey, shout out. We could We could always
43:30
Speaker 3: be using help towards those programs. It's it's difficult to
43:35
Speaker 3: get you know, like government or municipal funding or things
43:39
Speaker 3: like that, as you'd probably expect. You know. I made
43:42
Speaker 3: a video not that long ago, I think, kind of
43:45
Speaker 3: December January, about how we had attempted to talk to
43:50
Speaker 3: a big local foundation for you know, funding for for
43:55
Speaker 3: some of our programs and they were just you know,
43:58
Speaker 3: offering really quite critical all questions about oh, you know,
44:02
Speaker 3: like you you your organization has associated with these wrong
44:06
Speaker 3: people in the past, do you do you denounce them?
44:09
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you have to disavow these these
44:12
Speaker 1: far right groups. Well that is the trouble with these
44:15
Speaker 1: government organizations because there's like special interest groups. They got
44:19
Speaker 1: their hands in their pockets and they're they can use
44:22
Speaker 1: the your need for funding to gatekeep or control what
44:27
Speaker 1: you guys do. So I think, yeah, if you are
44:29
Speaker 1: primarily getting your money from you know, donors and people
44:33
Speaker 1: who just support you out of their pockets, you'll have
44:36
Speaker 1: more autonomy to do things the way you want. So,
44:40
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope that the downside of that is
44:43
Speaker 1: of course you're not getting the money as easily because
44:46
Speaker 1: the state can just you know, essentially take it from
44:49
Speaker 1: the people and give it to you. But if you
44:51
Speaker 1: get it from your you know, investors and stuff, then
44:55
Speaker 1: I think that's overall, it gives you a clearer conscience
44:59
Speaker 1: at least, right, you know, you're doing things the way
45:01
Speaker 1: you want to.
45:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say, thankfully, you know, we
45:04
Speaker 3: have a couple of you know, private philanthropists that that
45:08
Speaker 3: really support the work that we're doing, and so you know,
45:11
Speaker 3: we we rely a fair bit on on donations from
45:14
Speaker 3: from those specific people. So that is something that we're
45:19
Speaker 3: really grateful to have. You know. Obviously I wish we
45:24
Speaker 3: have more that. Like again, I think as the shelter
45:27
Speaker 3: opens and you know, we we get people needing and
45:32
Speaker 3: using the space, I'm hoping that that will cause more
45:35
Speaker 3: people to take us seriously and stop treating it like
45:37
Speaker 3: so much of a oh you know, like you you
45:40
Speaker 3: can't have our slice of the pie, right, It's like
45:43
Speaker 3: everybody deserves to have services, men and women. It's it's okay,
45:47
Speaker 3: we can support both.
45:49
Speaker 1: You know, Yes, exactly. I was going to ask one
45:56
Speaker 1: other thing about the services, and then I want to
45:58
Speaker 1: ask you something about some plans we have. Allison's already
46:03
Speaker 1: setting up another meet up for next September. But before
46:08
Speaker 1: I get to that, because I'm sure else it's gonna
46:10
Speaker 1: spam me with info about it. Do you what kind
46:14
Speaker 1: of things you guys do for men? I know that
46:15
Speaker 1: there's you know, therapy sessions and stuff. But I found,
46:20
Speaker 1: and this is just from talking to guys like Phil
46:22
Speaker 1: Mitchell and Martin Seeger and Don Berry, that men like
46:26
Speaker 1: to do things with their hands. And even when you
46:28
Speaker 1: said that, you know, we need to paint the place,
46:31
Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if some of the guys
46:32
Speaker 1: could do that. Oh, that sounds like you're putting them
46:34
Speaker 1: to work, But like, you know, I think that where
46:36
Speaker 1: men one of the ways that men do well is
46:40
Speaker 1: when they're doing some activity, right, especially working with their
46:44
Speaker 1: hands or fishing sports. You know, there's like the sheds.
46:49
Speaker 1: You know that the sheds in Australia. So do you
46:52
Speaker 1: guys have like or is that like a part of
46:55
Speaker 1: the core. What kind of stuff is in the curriculum
46:57
Speaker 1: or the programs for men?
47:00
Speaker 3: Well? Right now, you know a lot of the stuff
47:02
Speaker 3: that we have is online because you know, you know,
47:09
Speaker 3: we we had some in person capability. At our previous
47:12
Speaker 3: location that wasn't a shelter, it was just you know,
47:15
Speaker 3: an office. But men kind of voted with their feet
47:19
Speaker 3: on that one, and they preferred to come to all
47:21
Speaker 3: of our offerings online rather than you know, make the
47:25
Speaker 3: trip out to go in person. So I'm talking about
47:28
Speaker 3: things like we have a men's peer support group where
47:31
Speaker 3: you know, men just kind of get together. There's a
47:33
Speaker 3: facilitator who will kind of help run the group, but
47:36
Speaker 3: mostly it's about men sharing stories with each other. There's
47:40
Speaker 3: a Nexus Domestic Violence Support Group, which is a structured
47:45
Speaker 3: thirteen week program. It's it's it's again it's run by peers,
47:49
Speaker 3: but there's training involved to become a facilitator, but it's
47:53
Speaker 3: it's mostly about you know, kind of helping men to
47:55
Speaker 3: recognize what they've been through and develop some some skills
47:59
Speaker 3: and theies to kind of work through that and get
48:01
Speaker 3: back on their feet. We have a legal advice program,
48:08
Speaker 3: so you know, we have legal volunteers who provide kind
48:12
Speaker 3: of reconsultations, like half in our consultations for advice. Not
48:16
Speaker 3: it's not a replacement for a lawyer, obviously, but it
48:19
Speaker 3: can can help people to kind of know what they
48:22
Speaker 3: should do next in their situations. We also have you know,
48:27
Speaker 3: like small other like webinars that will put on We
48:30
Speaker 3: have a lawyer that volunteers time to put on webinars
48:33
Speaker 3: about specific legal problems that men may experience. We have
48:37
Speaker 3: our Fueling Father's Program, which is you know, small little
48:41
Speaker 3: webinar series about various different topics that fathers may like
48:45
Speaker 3: to have support with, so you know, like preparing meals
48:48
Speaker 3: on a budget, doing fun things with their kids on
48:51
Speaker 3: a budget. I think we had one on doing one's taxes,
48:56
Speaker 3: like all kinds of different things that may be of use.
49:01
Speaker 3: So we we've got stuff like that. I would I
49:02
Speaker 3: would really love to have something where you know, we're
49:06
Speaker 3: we're working on like specific projects like what you just described.
49:11
Speaker 3: We don't, I don't know that we necessarily have the
49:14
Speaker 3: capacity yet. We did just add a new online program
49:19
Speaker 3: that's like a philosophy group that lots of men are
49:21
Speaker 3: getting a lot of benefit from, so you know, talking
49:24
Speaker 3: about different philosophical approaches to one's life that are often helpful.
49:31
Speaker 1: Like Marcus with the Boys.
49:34
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. Yeah, and that's been doing really well, So
49:38
Speaker 3: I'm excited about that.
49:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds that sounds really great, very exciting stuff.
49:44
Speaker 1: It's nice to get, you know, to hear about some
49:48
Speaker 1: real progress is being made. I feel like this wouldn't
49:52
Speaker 1: have been possible in twenty sixteen because I know how
49:55
Speaker 1: hard it was, and like you know, even earlier, you know,
49:58
Speaker 1: I mentioned Earl Silverman and how and four that is.
50:01
Speaker 1: But it's it seems like in some capacity there's like
50:06
Speaker 1: some positive change happening. So so so there's like a meetup.
50:11
Speaker 1: So we just did one and it's really good to
50:14
Speaker 1: see you there. But we're gonna try and do another
50:17
Speaker 1: one next September and hopefully it'll be like a little
50:22
Speaker 1: less chaotic. I mean, I feel like that the last
50:24
Speaker 1: one was fine, but it was kind of chaotic, and
50:26
Speaker 1: Lindsay and I got to figure out a new way
50:28
Speaker 1: to get up there because I think the drive was
50:29
Speaker 1: just like it just kicked my ass. So we're gonna
50:33
Speaker 1: figure out some other way. Maybe we'll put Jojo on
50:35
Speaker 1: a on a plane on a plane or something. I
50:37
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, I know I'm terrified of that.
50:41
Speaker 1: Like Lindsay's like, you know, we're not doing that because
50:42
Speaker 1: he's gonna end up in Guam and we're gonna be
50:45
Speaker 1: in Canada and you know, yeah, it's it's just and
50:49
Speaker 1: I don't know how he's gonna react to the pressure
50:50
Speaker 1: and all that.
50:51
Speaker 3: Yeah.
50:52
Speaker 1: Anyway, all that being said, so we have like in theory,
50:56
Speaker 1: we we are starting a new plan for a meetup
50:58
Speaker 1: in September of twenty twenty five. Will we see you
51:02
Speaker 1: It'll probably be in the same area.
51:04
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely definitely. Okay, Yeah, I'll definitely
51:11
Speaker 3: come out. You know, it's it's it's always nice to
51:13
Speaker 3: have an opportunity to come out and see you guys.
51:16
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's it's been a shame that I
51:19
Speaker 3: haven't been able to be as involved in the shows.
51:23
Speaker 1: But you know, I like, you're doing important work and
51:27
Speaker 1: you have spawn to care for.
51:31
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and as those spawn get older and you know,
51:36
Speaker 3: more independent, that that frees up a lot more time.
51:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have Did you enjoy what little time
51:41
Speaker 1: you had to hang out with us that day?
51:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And I think the girls did too, actually,
51:46
Speaker 3: so you know that was it was nice for them
51:48
Speaker 3: to get to see every buddy too.
51:51
Speaker 1: All right, Well, prim I don't is there anything else
51:54
Speaker 1: that people should know about what you're doing and that
51:56
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about I don't wrap it up.
52:00
Speaker 3: I don't think so, you know, I think that that
52:03
Speaker 3: about covers it. You know, like as as I mentioned,
52:07
Speaker 3: you know, the the organization does unfortunately rely a lot
52:11
Speaker 3: on you know, the donations of the average Joe. So
52:16
Speaker 3: you know, if if anybody is so inclined, you know,
52:20
Speaker 3: you can you can rest assured that that you're you're
52:23
Speaker 3: helping services that at very least like the out the
52:27
Speaker 3: Alberta Group is extremely dedicated to making sure that the
52:31
Speaker 3: right attitudes are going into it and this is something
52:34
Speaker 3: that I'm very very passionate about.
52:36
Speaker 1: So all right, well Brim, thank you so much for
52:41
Speaker 1: coming on the show. Uh, and guys, you know follow
52:45
Speaker 1: subscribe to you probably should be subscribe to a channel anyway,
52:48
Speaker 1: but if you're not subscribe to a channel the prim
52:51
Speaker 1: Reaper and also check out the website for the Canadian
52:55
Speaker 1: Center for Men and Families. Uh, they are doing good work,
52:59
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I think that the the ability
53:02
Speaker 1: to you know, build these services for men without a
53:07
Speaker 1: kind of ideological obstruction is like, I don't know you
53:12
Speaker 1: could ask for anything more at this point. So thank
53:16
Speaker 1: you guys for coming on the show. There goes. Yes,
53:18
Speaker 1: it's CCMF Alberta dot Ca. Thank for dropping the link
53:22
Speaker 1: in there, so anyway, we're gonna end the show there.
53:26
Speaker 1: If you guys like this video, please hit like subscribe.
53:29
Speaker 1: If you're not already subscribed to the BELF notifications, leave
53:32
Speaker 1: us a comment, let us know you guys think about
53:33
Speaker 1: what we discussed on the show today, and please please
53:37
Speaker 1: please share this video because sharing is caring. Thank you
53:39
Speaker 1: so much for coming on today's episode of The Fireside Chat,
53:42
Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you all in the next one.
53:44
Speaker 1: Have a good evening, everybody, talk to you later, hie.
53:47
Speaker 3: Everyone.
53:48
Speaker 1: Our machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines. They are
53:53
Speaker 1: talking point machines. They are impossible to fucking deal with,
53:56
Speaker 1: especially if you have like especially if you have like
53:59
Speaker 1: a couple of dudes who have good memory. On top
54:01
Speaker 1: of that too, holy shit, you're fucked