Latest / Gunther Fehlinger Podcast / From Dishwasher to Mayor: The Incredible Story of Përparim Rama (Pristina, Kosovo)-Gunther Fehlinger

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From Dishwasher to Mayor: The Incredible Story of Përparim Rama (Pristina, Kosovo)-Gunther Fehlinger · Gunther Fehlinger Podcast

• 0:01
  And today I'm so honoured and happy to have a very special
• 0:05
  guest at this podcast that's going to failing a podcast that
• 0:07
  this is the mayor of Pristina of the Republic of Kosovo, a great
• 0:12
  city. Welcome Mr. Mayor, and
• 0:14
  congratulation for the re election just recently.
• 0:17
  I'm so happy to have you at the show.
• 0:20
  Good to thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here and I'm
• 0:24
  obviously greatly, so greatly appreciate your time and of
• 0:29
  course, happy to discuss anything in the podcast here.
• 0:35
  And very, very thankful to Austrian nation and the
• 0:40
  government for everything that has done for us.
• 0:41
  So I'm, I'm, you know, delighted that we're going to be speaking
• 0:44
  about many things today here. So I'm looking forward to our
• 0:46
  discussion. First of all, let me let's speak
• 0:50
  about you, you personally, you have a very interesting life,
• 0:53
  Vita, like the Republic of Kosovo also fall of turbulences.
• 0:58
  I understand that you basically as a young childhood basically
• 1:00
  to flee to the United Kingdom and that you spent many years
• 1:04
  successful in the United Kingdom.
• 1:07
  Can you please explain why you came to the United Kingdom and
• 1:10
  what you did there? Well, as a 16 year old I left
• 1:15
  Christina, I went to London and as you can imagine in the 90s,
• 1:22
  nineteen 92 to be more precise, is the time when I left for
• 1:27
  London. It was actually I left there to
• 1:31
  spend my summer holidays was but but as it happened, you know
• 1:35
  that the war started in Croatia in in late 91 and then continued
• 1:40
  in 92. So the situation in then former
• 1:43
  Yugoslavia was deteriorating drastically.
• 1:46
  So it was safer for me as a 16 year old to stay in London on my
• 1:52
  own than to come back to Pristina with my parents, with
• 1:57
  my family. And there's one of the.
• 1:59
  Generation. You're one of the generation who
• 2:01
  basically the families decided to save the sons.
• 2:04
  You would have had to go to the Yugoslavian army basically.
• 2:07
  On a military. Basis and you were safer in the
• 2:10
  United King basically to survive for a new day.
• 2:13
  That is correct. So what was happening during
• 2:15
  that time is that Serbs, as you know, I mean, they they
• 2:20
  controlled the former Yugoslav military and army and they were
• 2:25
  inviting, they were bringing young people from non Serb
• 2:31
  nations like Albanians and others and putting them in front
• 2:36
  line to fight, for example, in Croatia or in or later on, you
• 2:40
  know, in Bosnia. And so it was deemed definitely
• 2:45
  more safer for me to to remain in London than to, you know,
• 2:50
  risk of being taken and, and put in front lines to fight, you
• 2:55
  know, someone that we had no reason to fight.
• 2:58
  Because the Croatians were basically allies and many in the
• 3:01
  Albanian parts of Yugoslavia supported the Croatians so.
• 3:05
  Absolutely. Well, I mean, as we've seen, as
• 3:08
  the history tells us, is that Serbs became the enemies of all.
• 3:15
  I mean, they, they initially started, you know, the war in
• 3:18
  Slovenia. It was very brief, continued
• 3:21
  with, you know, Croatia and then Bosnia.
• 3:25
  And then we also know what happened in Kosovo and, and
• 3:30
  thankfully, you know, Montenegro, Macedonia escaped
• 3:35
  without war. But it is a policy, I guess from
• 3:41
  Serbian nationalist politicians that kind of didn't want to give
• 3:47
  up, relinquish this the goods that they had in many ways.
• 3:51
  I mean, the control that they had over every Republican former
• 3:54
  Yugoslavia. And while everybody was working,
• 3:58
  the tax was being paid in Belgrade.
• 4:00
  The Belgrade was building as they were saying and and so
• 4:04
  different nations didn't see this as as as a process that
• 4:09
  they wanted to remain, you know, they wanted obviously some more
• 4:16
  fairness and especially in Kosovo during that time, being
• 4:21
  Albanian in Kosovo, ethnic Albanian in Kosovo, we were
• 4:24
  treated more like 3rd class citizens rather than the.
• 4:29
  Most apartheid style of suppression.
• 4:31
  It was, it was, yeah, probably the same or worse than what
• 4:35
  happened in in South Africa, you know, the same or worse than
• 4:39
  apartheid. And and, you know, we had no
• 4:42
  right to express ourselves freely.
• 4:45
  Our schools were closed and we were told either to learn about,
• 4:50
  you know, in Serbian, about Serbian history and in the way
• 4:54
  they sort of pushed it forward or, or you have no right to go
• 5:00
  to school. So our, our schools were closed.
• 5:03
  I mean, I remember in 19911992 when, when our school was
• 5:08
  actually closed off, we had to learn in, in, in these private
• 5:13
  houses, private rooms, people, what they did, they opened up.
• 5:17
  You know, I mean, we created sort of a parallel system during
• 5:21
  that, that time when classrooms were being held in people's
• 5:27
  living rooms or bedrooms. So different families kind of
• 5:32
  that, that were brave enough to open up their house.
• 5:36
  Then, you know, the students would go to that room, the
• 5:40
  teacher would come and teach us there.
• 5:42
  Let's say geography. After that we would have to move
• 5:45
  from geography to another house somewhere else where we then
• 5:49
  learn probably mathematics or another topic and then we had to
• 5:53
  move again to another house. So we were always on the move
• 5:56
  and always being scared that the Serbian police who, who were
• 6:01
  actually our police, the cause of them police anybody that was
• 6:05
  Albanian policeman in the during those early 90s, they were
• 6:08
  dismissed. And as I know from now, you
• 6:14
  know, facts that they kind of released prisoners from Serbian
• 6:19
  prisons and then put their, you know, police the uniforms and,
• 6:24
  and, you know, send them to, to Kosovo.
• 6:26
  So these were basically thieves in uniforms that would, would
• 6:31
  stop us and, and ask us, what do you have in your pockets and
• 6:34
  kind of, you know, give me your money.
• 6:35
  Where did you get this money? Slap us around, take, take
• 6:38
  whatever we had and then we were lucky if they let us go with
• 6:42
  just that. But.
• 6:44
  Terrible times. Terrible times.
• 6:46
  It was terrible, unfortunately terrible times.
• 6:49
  The SAPS still have apologized, I think, for all these crimes.
• 6:52
  Well, they have not, unfortunately.
• 6:54
  And, and it was because of obviously the situation like
• 6:57
  that, that a lot of young, young boys especially that fleed the
• 7:03
  country. If they could, you know, if they
• 7:04
  could get hold of a passport, they would leave the country.
• 7:09
  And during those, you know, times, the early 90s, during the
• 7:12
  90s, you know, there's a large number of, of youngsters that
• 7:16
  fled. And then also, you know,
• 7:18
  families and, and whoever could flee, they they did flee.
• 7:22
  Mr. Mayor, I'm very happy that you escaped because you came
• 7:27
  then to you then then knighted Kingdom.
• 7:29
  I understand at the age of 16, how was it basically alone in a
• 7:33
  big city, the biggest city of the world or one of the biggest
• 7:36
  city and a young Kosovo school student at 16 in London?
• 7:41
  How did you live? What was?
• 7:42
  Well, I, I, I was, I was lucky to have my cousin Eliana.
• 7:49
  I mean, she had been living in London for about a year and a
• 7:53
  half prior to me going there, working as a, as a nanny.
• 7:57
  And, and so I kind of had her as a guidance initially.
• 8:02
  But you know, on in one side it was difficult as a 16 year old.
• 8:07
  I had to actually find a job, you know, get working in order
• 8:12
  to support myself. But then later on, later on once
• 8:18
  what? Well, I washed dishes, I worked
• 8:21
  as a waiter, I worked as a bartender.
• 8:27
  So we had all these different, different jobs initially, you
• 8:31
  know, I would, you know, get a job in a restaurant to wash
• 8:36
  dishes. I was, I worked for one day and
• 8:39
  I was told off because I spent too much hot water and I didn't
• 8:43
  know how to wash dishes or, or in a or in a sandwich bar where
• 8:50
  again as a 16 1/2 year old, I would, it was very warm, very
• 8:55
  hot and I would try and make these sandwiches.
• 8:57
  I got a little bit of a Nosebleed and they said, oh,
• 9:00
  they were scared. No, you know, you can't work,
• 9:02
  you know, get out and then try and find another one.
• 9:06
  It was, you know, tough times. But then again, once, may I ask?
• 9:11
  You did you have some residence papers?
• 9:13
  No, once. Once I applied.
• 9:15
  Once I applied. I then applied for political
• 9:18
  asylum. I applied after I decided to, to
• 9:22
  stay, I applied for political asylum.
• 9:25
  And from the process of the application we were fortunately
• 9:30
  allowed to work and to get educated.
• 9:34
  And then we got some social support as well, you know, for
• 9:39
  some expenses. And so as a result, once we
• 9:43
  applied, for once I applied for political asylum, it became a
• 9:48
  lot easier to then, you know, to get educated, to pursue my
• 9:54
  education, which which is what I did, you know, So I started then
• 9:59
  first in the college and then at university.
• 10:02
  And so this was for me, it was a renaissance time because I was
• 10:07
  as a as a teenager at that time, I was in a, in a developed
• 10:12
  country, you know, in London, one of the greatest city on
• 10:15
  cities on earth, where I was free.
• 10:19
  I didn't feel, I didn't fear for my life.
• 10:22
  The only thing I needed to do is is go to school, you know, get a
• 10:26
  job and get some extra money to, to live or send money back home.
• 10:32
  Because of those, those times, it was difficult times in Kosovo
• 10:37
  where both of my parents, you know, one professor in the
• 10:40
  Academy of Arts and Dean of faculty of architecture, My
• 10:43
  father and my mother as a teacher, I mean, they were both
• 10:47
  without, without pay. Like my father was kicked out of
• 10:51
  the job. My, my, my mother continued
• 10:54
  teaching, but because she wasn't teaching kids the way where we
• 11:00
  pushed in Serbian way, they had no funds so that everything was
• 11:02
  funded by 3% that that diaspora donated to parallel structures
• 11:11
  in Kosovo that then funded the teachers and the families to, to
• 11:16
  survive. And of course I I always had to
• 11:19
  send money back to ensure that my parents can survive my
• 11:24
  sister's wife. You were not a.
• 11:27
  Rich kid sent to London to enjoy the studies but you had to send
• 11:32
  money back to your parents to be.
• 11:34
  Exact. I was not a rich kid, far from
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  it. I actually, I remember as of
• 11:39
  today, my father had to borrow 303,000 Deutsch marks at that
• 11:45
  time from my auntie's, my auntie's husband.
• 11:52
  Then which again, I, I, I said that I would try and get a job,
• 11:57
  you know, and pay that back. And that was the situation.
• 12:01
  So not that we didn't have money.
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  We had to kind of get land money, borrow money from, borrow
• 12:07
  money from, you know, our families there and then paid
• 12:12
  back. And then of course, I had to,
• 12:14
  during my studies, I had to also work in order to make additional
• 12:18
  money in order to ensure that my family has enough to eat in back
• 12:24
  in, back at home, back in Kosovo.
• 12:25
  But I understand that you basically followed the family
• 12:28
  tradition. Your father was a architect and
• 12:30
  famous architect even. He was a painter, he was a
• 12:34
  famous painter. He exhibited with Picasso, with
• 12:37
  Chagall, with a lot of great painters, Kadrush, Rama and he
• 12:41
  was also Dean of Faculty of Architecture in in Pristina
• 12:45
  well. You followed A tradition to be
• 12:49
  first of all architect in a sense, and then also to be
• 12:52
  famous. Well, I guess architecture is a
• 12:54
  form of art. Absolutely.
• 12:56
  You know, it's, it's the one that kind of combines, I
• 12:59
  believe, you know, both sides of your brain, the artistic and
• 13:02
  scientific sides. And I, I very much, you know,
• 13:06
  enjoyed studying and working as an architect so.
• 13:10
  I understand you have been in Britain before you came back to
• 13:13
  become the Mayor in 2021. I I lived in London for 39 years
• 13:18
  and in 2000 and 20/1/2021 I was invited by a friend of mine.
• 13:24
  I, I received a call, you know, asking me to run for a mayor.
• 13:30
  And of course, I took that as a joke because my practice didn't
• 13:34
  ought. Not to be.
• 13:36
  I said, you know, I have, I have, you know, projects all
• 13:40
  over the world working, doing the thing that I love doing.
• 13:45
  But of course, I mean, during ever since 1999, since
• 13:50
  liberation of Kosovo, I've been very active in Pristina as well.
• 13:54
  I set up my, my own practice in 2004 in Pristina, in Kosovo.
• 13:59
  And I've been using that as an excuse to fly back and forth to
• 14:03
  see my mother, but also I use it as a back office for projects
• 14:07
  around the world. And so while we had more
• 14:10
  projects in different parts of the world, you know, the office
• 14:13
  in Pristina was also growing and helping as a back office because
• 14:18
  we were more competitive in the global market as a london-based
• 14:22
  office together with Kosovo based.
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  So we would then get a lot of projects in different parts of
• 14:30
  the world. And when the call came, you
• 14:32
  know, I took it as a joke initially.
• 14:35
  But during this period where I was flying back and forth, I was
• 14:38
  always trying to help previous mayors.
• 14:42
  You know, I saw many issues with the city and how they could be
• 14:45
  resolved, how they could be fixed.
• 14:47
  So I wanted to give everything I knew from a professional point
• 14:51
  of view, academic point of view, pro bono for free to previous
• 14:56
  mayors. But unfortunately, you know,
• 14:59
  very little or none of it was happening as a result.
• 15:03
  So when I and I was always saying that yes, I'm trying to
• 15:06
  help my city, I'm trying to help my country and so on and so
• 15:08
  forth. And this was perhaps one of my
• 15:11
  missions as a 16 year old. I remember when they used to ask
• 15:14
  me where you from in London? I would say I'm from Pristina
• 15:18
  and I would say, well, where is Pristina?
• 15:20
  So well, Pristina is in Cosova. They say, well, where's Cosova?
• 15:25
  And then of course, since we were occupied under occupation
• 15:28
  by Serbs and former Yugoslavia and like in a country that kind
• 15:31
  of changed also its name, I said, well, Kosovo, it's north
• 15:35
  of Albania. And you know, geographically
• 15:37
  that is north of Albania, former Yugoslavia.
• 15:41
  And so they wouldn't know that either, you know, in the, they
• 15:44
  didn't even know Albania then, you know, that was kind of a
• 15:46
  close dictatorship and so on. So north of Albania, I mean,
• 15:49
  where is Albania in order for, for this country to be north of
• 15:52
  Albania. So from there, that was
• 15:55
  obviously a huge kind of moral hit to me as a as a as a as a
• 16:01
  youngster, I was someone in this big city, multilingual,
• 16:06
  multicultural people from all over the world.
• 16:10
  You know, people like Americans, Austrians, German, French,
• 16:15
  Italian, you know, everybody knew of them, but nobody knew
• 16:18
  where where I was from. So I made it my mission to put
• 16:22
  my city, my country on the map for good, with good projects.
• 16:26
  Because that is the mayor you. In your time in London, you also
• 16:30
  put forward a Skanda Bay monument to my.
• 16:32
  I did, I did absolutely. But, but that was one of one of
• 16:36
  the few things. But we obviously, we, we won
• 16:40
  many awards for architecture, many awards that were kind of
• 16:44
  related to Pristina, to Kosovo for architectural projects.
• 16:50
  And I think that's the best way to put your country on the maps
• 16:54
  for good news, you know, for things that are positive, not
• 16:59
  not. And to kind of shift away from
• 17:02
  the war and the negative press that was coming out of Kosovo
• 17:07
  during the 90s. You have now big helper because
• 17:11
  I understand that the famous singer from Kosovo, Dua Lipa,
• 17:15
  she was also with 16 in the UK and made it big time globally
• 17:19
  and is now a good help I think for your.
• 17:21
  Country, Oh, Oh yeah. I mean, she's a she's a great
• 17:25
  ambassador, a great artist. And and even before Dua Lipa, we
• 17:30
  all said Rita Ora, we still have her as well.
• 17:33
  She kind of broke the eyes. And there's many other artists,
• 17:39
  you know, globally now like Beverage and you know many, many
• 17:44
  others that that are also supportists that come from from
• 17:49
  Kosovo, from Pristina. This is nothing.
• 17:51
  Specific about the British that the yeah, that the Kosovo
• 17:55
  Albanians are so successful, especially in the United
• 17:58
  Kingdom. Is there?
• 18:00
  Oh, well, I, I think, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm obviously I will
• 18:07
  forever be thankful to, to Britain for giving me the
• 18:11
  opportunity to get educated and to go to, to study what I, what
• 18:16
  I dreamt of and to make it possible for me to do this.
• 18:20
  And, and as a result, of course, I became the person that I
• 18:25
  dreamt of being that I wanted to be.
• 18:27
  And as a result, I wanted to help others.
• 18:30
  So studying architecture, becoming an architect and then
• 18:34
  and then setting up my own architectural practice, I was
• 18:37
  able to give back to the country because I employed many other
• 18:42
  then architects, you know construction people, project
• 18:46
  managers and so on and so forth. So pay back in terms of tax, in
• 18:50
  terms of exposure. Wind projects globally again
• 18:55
  help help the country even in terms of tax, employment and so
• 19:00
  on and so forth. Reputation.
• 19:01
  So I wanted to give back and I continue, of course, to be
• 19:05
  thankful to Britain and and what I've learned.
• 19:08
  Let me ask you, because in the UK there is a little bit a bit a
• 19:11
  debate about Nigel Farage and some statements against
• 19:15
  Albanians in the UK and that's a very sad.
• 19:19
  What's your message to the British people now that you have
• 19:21
  famous public? Personality of the country,
• 19:25
  unfortunately, you know, these sort of populist agendas,
• 19:29
  nationalistic agendas that are being pushed by by countries
• 19:32
  around the world today. We're kind of shifting this
• 19:36
  towards far right. It's it's sad because you know,
• 19:42
  people, people by default, people that decide to run away
• 19:46
  from their countries. They have a reason and the
• 19:49
  reason is they probably fear for their lives, fear for their
• 19:52
  families lives. And they want to to be somewhere
• 19:56
  where they can work, they can secure the future for the kids,
• 20:01
  for their families and then give back to, to, to that country.
• 20:05
  You know, the ones, the lazy ones, they don't even bother
• 20:08
  moving. They would stay, you know, it's,
• 20:11
  it's the ones that, that, that have a vision that they want to
• 20:14
  that see the future for themselves.
• 20:16
  They want to build a better future that move.
• 20:18
  And, and now you can look back, you know, people that moved in,
• 20:22
  in Britain, for example. That were allowed to study, to
• 20:26
  work. There are majority of them are
• 20:29
  professionals, majority of them have businesses, majority of
• 20:32
  them pay tax, contribute to the development or to a growth, to
• 20:36
  the economical growth, artistic growth.
• 20:38
  You know Dua Lipa, for example, a global superstar, Rita, what
• 20:42
  are the same global superstar? Many other businesses of course,
• 20:45
  over there that pay tax, that contribute to the economy are a
• 20:49
  result of, of this country being open to these people, saving
• 20:53
  their lives. And they will forever be
• 20:55
  thankful, indebted and work for that country just like again.
• 20:59
  I continue to do that and build bridges.
• 21:02
  And of course, I, I cannot ever forget when I arrived here, the
• 21:08
  stories that I heard also about Austria and, and, and, and, and
• 21:13
  about how opened you were for our country, for our people, for
• 21:20
  the youngsters here that had no hope that you accepted them in,
• 21:24
  in universities over there, pro bono for free.
• 21:27
  They were able to to fulfil their dreams.
• 21:30
  Many of them now contribute to your economy over there.
• 21:34
  A lot of them have moved back to Kosovo.
• 21:36
  But the bridges between the two countries are stronger than ever
• 21:40
  as a result of this kindness of this humanity.
• 21:44
  And we must never forget, you know, that, that we are all
• 21:47
  humans, that in the times of need, we need to take care of
• 21:51
  one another. And I see, you know, when we are
• 21:55
  asked to help, that is one huge moment of, of, of like a miracle
• 22:02
  moment. Because you, you are given the
• 22:04
  opportunity to give, to help. There is no more better feeling,
• 22:08
  there is no more fulfillment spiritually, soulfully than when
• 22:13
  you give and help others you know and.
• 22:17
  You said, Mr. Mayor, to the British people very much you.
• 22:20
  Were coming. As the dishwasher, 16 year old,
• 22:23
  you turned into a mayor and a very successful businessman,
• 22:27
  architect in the home country also there.
• 22:29
  And it's something Nigel Farage should listen to.
• 22:32
  I think the UK better. I think Nigel Farage should,
• 22:37
  should just spend a little bit of time and look back in its own
• 22:41
  family, its own history, you know, and where, where they came
• 22:44
  from and, and, and, you know, 'cause everybody in the war, you
• 22:48
  can find probably very few people that if you look back
• 22:52
  that have not moved, you know, and this is human nature.
• 22:56
  We, we, we move around as long as we understand and recognize
• 23:00
  that we share the world, you know, that, that, that the
• 23:03
  nations, the borders, you know, they are placed artificially.
• 23:08
  But in the times of need, we need to understand that we need
• 23:12
  to, you know, be there for each other, for one another.
• 23:15
  People need to help people. What what is the point of
• 23:18
  existence if you're not helping one another?
• 23:21
  So if you're not help. The Kosovo Albanians,
• 23:24
  especially, it was Doctor Ayad Postek, the great European and
• 23:28
  the great friend of Kosovo, our Vice Chancellor and Minister of
• 23:32
  Education, were allowed in the year 92 hundreds, if not
• 23:36
  thousands of Kosovo Albanians to study and continue their study
• 23:40
  and to be mutually recognized in the graph process.
• 23:43
  And you recently honored him with their own square in
• 23:47
  Pristina. Thank you very much for that,
• 23:49
  Mister Mayor. Can you describe your motivation
• 23:51
  behind that? Kind of that, that is that is
• 23:54
  the least, that is the least that we can do as a capital city
• 23:58
  of Kosovo. And, and of course, that was the
• 24:00
  initiative of, of Kosovo Austrian Association, which they
• 24:07
  came to me with a request. I've heard the story and, and
• 24:12
  the least, the least we could do is, is take that idea forward
• 24:16
  and make it a reality 'cause I do understand that a lot of
• 24:20
  ideas remain on paper. But from my background as an
• 24:24
  architect, as an urban planner, as someone that comes from
• 24:27
  private sector, you know, if we have a project, if we promise
• 24:32
  something, we need to deliver that we need to make it into a
• 24:35
  reality, especially for, for our heroes.
• 24:39
  Cause Buzak, our Buzak is, is our hero, is our country's hero.
• 24:44
  And, and that's why I'm obviously feel honoured to have
• 24:48
  had the opportunity to be in a position to select a, a, a
• 24:55
  square. And that is within the
• 24:57
  university grounds, which links directly with the, with the
• 25:01
  spirit of, of, of what Erhard Buzak, Dr. Erhard Buzak has done
• 25:06
  for our youth, for our country. As a result of opening up
• 25:10
  universities in Austria and accepting our students during
• 25:15
  those toughest times in, in in our recent history, we today
• 25:20
  have a lot of professionals, academics, a lot of people that
• 25:26
  have been able to study to make their dreams come true, to build
• 25:31
  their lives, their careers, their businesses and give back
• 25:35
  now to, to, to back to communities in in Austria as
• 25:41
  well as in Kosovo and globally. Mr. Mayor, the Austrian nation
• 25:45
  is eternally thankful because you're also very fast men in
• 25:48
  decision making and very much implementing them because not
• 25:52
  even in Vienna where Doctor Busek was the deputy mayor for
• 25:55
  many, many decades and they were really very important
• 25:57
  personality. He led us into the European
• 25:59
  Union. He doesn't have a street or a
• 26:01
  square up to now, despite many efforts.
• 26:04
  If you ever meet the mayor of Vienna, maybe you can mention.
• 26:08
  Anyway, I want to thank you. Very much because you are really
• 26:12
  a politician, very untypical politician, because if you
• 26:15
  promise something, you do it. And that's not always the
• 26:18
  reputation of politicians and. It is.
• 26:21
  Especially very good. You put the standard Bay into
• 26:23
  London, you put Buzik into Pristina.
• 26:26
  Really you do the things well about because you're just re
• 26:31
  elected and you have already transformed the city of
• 26:34
  Pristina. And I've, I've lived in
• 26:36
  Pristina, not in your years, but before for five years all over.
• 26:40
  And I love that city. It's really beautiful.
• 26:42
  But there's a lot of traffic and a lot of issues with pollution.
• 26:45
  And in the years now I visit under your leadership, the city
• 26:48
  has really been cleaner, cleaner, better organized.
• 26:52
  What's your magic? What's your recipe for other
• 26:55
  mayors to learn? And is it maybe that you take
• 26:58
  ideas from all over your work, bring them to possible and
• 27:02
  really do things like you did this kind of Bay, you did the
• 27:05
  boutique square, you're simply a tour.
• 27:08
  Thank you very much for pointing these out.
• 27:11
  Well, again, I, I have left my life in London, you know, with
• 27:18
  my, my business is over there. My wife, my three children were
• 27:22
  born in, in, in London today. You know, my little one is 4
• 27:28
  1/2. He was two months when I left
• 27:31
  him there with, with my wife, with his mother and my two other
• 27:35
  children, 1 is now 8 and 11. And I then brought them all
• 27:42
  here. I brought them all here in
• 27:44
  Pristina in the promise that I will transform the city.
• 27:49
  So I am here in Pristina to transform the city.
• 27:54
  The projects that I have promised to the people, I know,
• 27:57
  they are very doable because I have an urban planning
• 28:00
  experience and architectural experience.
• 28:01
  I've dealt with far larger projects than the ones that we
• 28:05
  have proposed that are transforming our city now.
• 28:08
  They feel massive to the people in Pristina, unfortunately,
• 28:12
  because no large scale projects have been carried out since, but
• 28:16
  now they are. But I have assured them and I
• 28:19
  can assure everyone that the projects that we're doing are
• 28:21
  doable and we are continuing to do them.
• 28:24
  So, you know, I have not called myself a politician because
• 28:29
  again, I didn't have an interest in politics.
• 28:31
  I'm kind of a doer, an architect, an urban planner, but
• 28:34
  now in a position of a politician as well.
• 28:36
  And I think you must use, you know, politician by default is a
• 28:40
  noble, is a noble function because as a politician you are
• 28:46
  there to do for others, to give to others.
• 28:50
  So I take that noble aspect of a politician to work for others
• 28:55
  with the experience of private sector to kind of deliver things
• 28:59
  on time. Because a day wasted is not a
• 29:03
  day wasted just for you as a mayor, but it's a day wasted for
• 29:06
  half a million people here in, in in Kosovo.
• 29:09
  So we try and deliver things as fast as possible, but of course,
• 29:13
  during the process there's a lot of issues that you need to deal
• 29:18
  with, a lot of unknowns. The more in the key important
• 29:21
  thing is that you have a vision, you're on a mission and you
• 29:25
  don't let anything stop you. You push ahead no matter.
• 29:29
  What? You were the guy and tell me Mr.
• 29:30
  Mayor, you were just re elected. How was the election campaign
• 29:34
  then for you and what was the result?
• 29:37
  Well, I'm, I'm, I'm delighted obviously to be re elected as a
• 29:40
  mayor because four years ago on my first campaign, I did say
• 29:45
  that our projects are 8 year projects.
• 29:49
  So I need 8 years, I need 2 terms to transform the city and
• 29:54
  I am now re elected. A majority of Pristina people
• 29:58
  entrusted me with, with the position to continue with the
• 30:02
  large scale projects that we have started.
• 30:04
  So we now are in a fantastic position to make the city
• 30:10
  thrive. So my first four years were
• 30:12
  obviously quite tough because I came from private sector to
• 30:15
  public sector. I need to learn about all of our
• 30:18
  public sector, but also the budget that we had planned, that
• 30:22
  somebody else had planned, we had to work with.
• 30:24
  So that was a year wasted and then another year with politics
• 30:28
  and all that. Now I've learned all that.
• 30:30
  Now we have everything in our side to push the processes
• 30:35
  forward. Unfortunately, you know, the one
• 30:38
  thing that I have not calculated is the, you know, because coming
• 30:42
  from private sector, everything makes logical sense.
• 30:45
  You know, you have a budget, you have the clients requirements,
• 30:48
  you have a timeline, you have your, your consultants, your
• 30:52
  companies that you align and you push them into, you know, and
• 30:56
  you move them from A to finish. So everything works logically
• 31:03
  here. We have to take another permit
• 31:05
  parameter into account, which is politics.
• 31:08
  Politics where decision making does not, does not necessarily
• 31:12
  follow a logical line. There's some illogical decisions
• 31:16
  that are made somewhere. It's like House of Cards that
• 31:19
  kind of just, you know, destroy everything.
• 31:23
  So this is something that I've learned.
• 31:26
  I guess these four years I'm better prepared, but I don't
• 31:31
  think you can ever be prepared for these sort of illogical
• 31:33
  decision making processes that could just unfold these cards.
• 31:37
  But I am super more optimistic that I'm in a way better
• 31:42
  condition and I I have, I'm super optimist that Pristina
• 31:46
  these next four years will thrive and also as we prepare
• 31:49
  for Mediterranean games in 20-30, which will be.
• 31:52
  Hosted 20302030, that's 5 years from now, so that your term is 4
• 31:56
  years. I understand 2029.
• 32:00
  I hope you will be reelected again.
• 32:02
  Of course, that's announcement for that it is where do you see
• 32:08
  the city in 2029 that's important, The year of the
• 32:11
  European Parliament elections and a lot of decisions
• 32:14
  potentially Albania will be in the EU, Montenegro, maybe
• 32:17
  Macedonia. So your neighborhood will be the
• 32:20
  EU basically. And so the situation, where do
• 32:23
  you work with in 2029? What would be your landmark if
• 32:29
  we can celebrate on this in 2029?
• 32:33
  Well, you know, we've had what I've requested from European
• 32:38
  Union, you know, in May, in May of this year, we started the
• 32:44
  first workshop to kind of engage cities, local governments
• 32:51
  directly with, with EU, you know, with funding and processes
• 32:57
  rather than wait, you know, rather than go through central
• 33:00
  and then local. And the reason why, why I have
• 33:05
  requested this and I hope that we can make it a reality.
• 33:09
  So we have kind of direct communication from sort of EU
• 33:14
  offices to local governments is that this is where the work
• 33:18
  happens. This is where change happens.
• 33:21
  This is where work meets people. This is where the problems of
• 33:24
  the people meet the local politicians.
• 33:28
  This is where things get done, where life happens if they could
• 33:34
  you. Could have a direct direct
• 33:37
  capitals program to focus on bot go it's Tirana and Pristina
• 33:42
  directly in order to help your cities in the development
• 33:45
  concretely. Absolutely.
• 33:47
  Otherwise, other things get in the way, you know, some sort of
• 33:51
  abstract notions in central government, some kind of
• 33:55
  problems that may not even be problems that could stop other
• 33:59
  processes, like what has happened in Kosovo.
• 34:03
  We've been under measures for more than two years.
• 34:06
  That you have to explain a little bit under measures means
• 34:09
  this unjustified effort of the EU to punish Kosovo for unclear
• 34:13
  what, but you get no money from the EU for this period because
• 34:17
  they are unhappy with the national government and the
• 34:19
  people of Pristina pay the price.
• 34:21
  Exactly. I mean, you know, whatever,
• 34:24
  whatever, you know, the issues are at central level, again, you
• 34:30
  have politicians at central level which are doing things at
• 34:34
  that level. And if you want to push them or
• 34:37
  stop them, then you need to have kind of other mechanic
• 34:40
  mechanisms that don't punish people on on at the local level.
• 34:48
  And, and what has happened, unfortunately, is that, you
• 34:51
  know, they have kind of run unpunished and even kind of look
• 34:55
  like heroes, whereas we have been indirectly and massively
• 34:59
  punished by not getting receiving the funds to do the
• 35:03
  projects that we promised to the people, the funds that we
• 35:06
  believe we had because we were told we did have, you know,
• 35:09
  there's. Money for the sewer system, for
• 35:11
  the canalisation, for the fresh water, for the waste disposal.
• 35:16
  Waste management, Many important people.
• 35:19
  Yeah. Yeah, even sort of.
• 35:21
  Release, release these funds. Inclusive projects, for example,
• 35:24
  even in arts and culture like the, you know, the, the, the
• 35:32
  Symphony Orchestra, which was part of, you know, we had a
• 35:36
  fantastic program over there of, you know, bringing in all the
• 35:38
  communities, kind of using that through culture performance
• 35:43
  workshops to bring people together.
• 35:45
  You know, so not deal with those nationalistic red lines, kind
• 35:49
  of, you know, work at the level that brings everybody together,
• 35:53
  you know, art, culture, science, education, sports, you know,
• 35:57
  community build up. So we had, we had and we still
• 36:01
  continue to have, but we're still under measures and cannot
• 36:03
  deliver on these key topics. And as you mentioned, the basics
• 36:07
  of of cleaning the waters of sewage systems and so on and so
• 36:10
  forth as part of this overall process and program because of,
• 36:16
  you know, the measures that were will.
• 36:18
  It will be resolved soon, Mr. Mayor, because, as I understand,
• 36:21
  there are early elections coming up.
• 36:24
  Yep, we have the early elections on 28th of December now and
• 36:28
  you're just. Coming out of elections and
• 36:30
  you're going into the next elections, basically.
• 36:32
  Yep, we have less than five weeks now for central government
• 36:36
  elections and your. Re elections, as a mayor you are
• 36:40
  like one of the most important politicians on the as well in
• 36:44
  the national arena. What's your prediction, what's
• 36:47
  your wish for this national elections and after this dynamic
• 36:50
  of your re elections, what you hope for the 28th of December to
• 36:54
  achieve? Well, I hope that we have change
• 36:57
  of government and and not for anything else.
• 37:00
  I just had my own personal experience with the current,
• 37:03
  current government that unfortunately, you know, has,
• 37:07
  even though has been elected by the people, has worked against
• 37:10
  the people. If the whole government has kind
• 37:12
  of sabotaged and blocked the capital city, capital city that
• 37:16
  provides 49.8% of the budget of the overall country, simply
• 37:20
  because 49.8% of the budget of Kosovo is.
• 37:25
  National government, which should support you, has blocked
• 37:28
  you. Yes, the national government has
• 37:30
  blocked the capital city simply because I am not a member of
• 37:34
  that that party and and I think which party.
• 37:38
  Are you from? Well, again, I'm not a member of
• 37:41
  any party, but I'm backed by LDK, by the Democratic League of
• 37:46
  of Kosovo. I'm back there, have invited me,
• 37:49
  they backed me. During the process.
• 37:51
  I've been very clear that I'm interested to help in
• 37:54
  transforming the city and they have backed me again.
• 37:57
  So we're together with LDK and that's the same.
• 37:59
  The right wing party, which is part of the European People's
• 38:02
  Party and the European Party Spectrum.
• 38:04
  That is correct, yes, Yes. International level is a centre
• 38:07
  left wing party with Vette Bendosia are being quoted.
• 38:10
  Well, they call themselves centre left.
• 38:12
  I mean, they're really very far left or even I I don't even call
• 38:16
  them a political party. They're more like a sect, more
• 38:19
  like a cult that rely on one person and, and every, all the
• 38:24
  decisions are made by this one person.
• 38:26
  Otherwise, you know, what they've done or what they're
• 38:28
  doing would make no sense. To try and sabotage and boycott
• 38:33
  and block a capital city simply because it's not under their
• 38:40
  management is insane. And and again, you know, the
• 38:45
  projects that we have now pushed forward that we won with, you
• 38:49
  know, they were on their programme as well.
• 38:51
  And, and the Prime Minister said as soon as we when Pristina as
• 38:56
  well, we will continue with these, with these projects.
• 38:59
  So he obviously understands how important they are, but he will
• 39:02
  only push them if his party wins.
• 39:05
  And egocentric, I think it's very egocentric that does not,
• 39:09
  it's, it's a party and a person that does not think about the
• 39:11
  people, but himself or themselves.
• 39:14
  And I hope that, you know, the country will reflect, will learn
• 39:19
  from from these experiences and will vote, you know, centre
• 39:24
  right will vote LDK, you know, will vote people that that truly
• 39:31
  are pro growth for development and they are there for all
• 39:34
  people. You know, as I said, the moment
• 39:36
  I took my position, I don't see people through party lenses.
• 39:42
  You know, I work as a mayor for all.
• 39:45
  I bring all the parties together to work together for the benefit
• 39:48
  of all. And I saw that, you know, this
• 39:51
  should have been the, the way that Prime Minister, whoever is
• 39:55
  in charge should work, that the ministers where were they're in
• 39:57
  charge should work. They should work for the benefit
• 40:00
  of people, not the benefit of their own party.
• 40:03
  Unfortunately, this government now that is in charge, not
• 40:07
  elected yet, that is in charge, has continued to to work for the
• 40:13
  party only and party people for the four years, even though they
• 40:16
  came to power fighting that. You know, they came to power
• 40:20
  saying that we are here for all people, but what they've shown
• 40:24
  is that they're worse than whatever has happened in in, in
• 40:28
  years before them and. For the next Prime Minister of
• 40:32
  Kosovo. Pardon who?
• 40:34
  You endorse. Who you hope?
• 40:35
  Oh, I endorse, of course. I endorse the LDK leader, Doctor
• 40:40
  Lumer Abdizhiko. He's a young, he's a young guy
• 40:44
  and I think he's got a lot of potential, you know, to, to
• 40:49
  become Prime Minister. And of course, we also have
• 40:52
  signed a contract during the, the previous campaign in, in, in
• 40:56
  February where I made him sign €1.5 billion agreement to invest
• 41:03
  in the capital city. I want him to win and invest
• 41:08
  that money in the capital city because again, there's a lot to
• 41:13
  be done. Capital city deserves it because
• 41:16
  as I said, 50% of the budget of the capital city, 50% of the
• 41:21
  country's budget is provided by the businesses and people that
• 41:25
  live in the capital city. So we cannot be treated like
• 41:29
  other municipalities. We are the capital city and
• 41:32
  therefore we should be prioritised and work together.
• 41:36
  Of course, you know, capital city with central government
• 41:38
  should work together. And of course, I wish Kosovo,
• 41:42
  our country, a peaceful and democratic elections.
• 41:46
  And whoever wins, may the one that deserves it win.
• 41:50
  But whoever wins, they should work very closely together with
• 41:55
  the capital city. And I hold no grudges.
• 41:58
  Whoever will win, I will work with them for the benefit of
• 42:00
  Kosovo, for the benefit of the capital city, for the benefit of
• 42:04
  all people. But it would make a lot of sense
• 42:07
  to have some kind of unity in the party system and a very good
• 42:12
  Prime Minister who is supporting Pristina's development.
• 42:15
  That would unleash a lot of funds and a lot of
• 42:17
  opportunities, a lot of investments and very good for
• 42:20
  years to come. Yes.
• 42:22
  And someone that understands that, that the country needs to
• 42:26
  invest, that the country needs to grow to develop, that
• 42:29
  actually spending the funds on projects is not wasting them.
• 42:33
  It's investment. You know, everyone euro spent
• 42:36
  today will be worth, you know, 5-10 euros tomorrow, but
• 42:41
  everyone euro saved today will be worth 0.7 or less cents
• 42:46
  tomorrow. And this government doesn't seem
• 42:48
  to understand that, you know, they're, they're kind of,
• 42:51
  they're kind of not spending it. They're saving it.
• 42:53
  They're not doing anything. You know, they're they're kind
• 42:56
  of talking about this sort of fund that they should save, that
• 43:00
  they should save money while the city, the people are paying tax
• 43:05
  to make the people their their their everyday life better not
• 43:09
  to leave it here in the bank and to devalue, you know, the
• 43:13
  savings. So I hope you know someone that
• 43:16
  understands growth, understands development, that is pro your
• 43:20
  prowest. You know that that works well
• 43:24
  with our partners, with people that have helped us during the
• 43:27
  war, with the people that have helped us deliberate ourselves,
• 43:31
  you know, with our international partners, with US, with European
• 43:34
  Union to come together and, and forge our future together
• 43:40
  forward, inclusive of all people, of course.
• 43:43
  Mr. Mayor, you also a national figure, if I can ask you some
• 43:47
  foreign policy questions as well about, because this podcast very
• 43:50
  much is about NATO and EU membership and I'm very much in
• 43:54
  support of NATO membership, of Kosovo and of you membership.
• 43:58
  I would like to ask you, what's your opinion?
• 44:00
  Do you want to see Kosovo, the Republic into NATO and the
• 44:03
  European Union? Yesterday.
• 44:06
  So far. Of course, absolutely,
• 44:09
  absolutely. We have to be part of NATO.
• 44:13
  I mean we should be, as I said yesterday, it's, it's everyday
• 44:17
  is, is is too late for us to be in in NATO.
• 44:21
  So we should have already been in, I would do everything
• 44:25
  possible within my own remit as a, as a mayor of the capital
• 44:27
  city to help the country become part of, of NATO, but also not
• 44:33
  only NATO, part of European Union.
• 44:35
  If you come to Kosovo, if you come to Pristina, you will
• 44:37
  already see that we are Europeans.
• 44:40
  We live like Europeans, our culture is very European.
• 44:44
  In Pristina you will feel like you're in any city around around
• 44:47
  Europe, you know. So in many ways we can probably
• 44:52
  show leadership in some aspects, We can learn a lot on many other
• 44:56
  aspects from other European countries.
• 44:58
  But but that's that's who we are today.
• 45:02
  And so of course, I'm very much looking forward to.
• 45:06
  Mr. Mayor, as the last question, still let me ask you about the
• 45:10
  tourism aspect, because many international tourists might not
• 45:13
  never have been to Pristina. And you know, I'm now living in
• 45:17
  Vienna. I compete a lot, of course, now
• 45:19
  for tourism. I tell everybody come to Vienna,
• 45:22
  but is it worth going to Pristina?
• 45:24
  Are tourists coming? Do you have a Christmas market
• 45:27
  now in December, for example? And so what's your talk on
• 45:30
  tourism and Pristina? Well, since 2021, so for the
• 45:35
  past four years every year on year we've had increase on
• 45:38
  tourist tourism industry 3534 this last year, 40% increase in
• 45:48
  tourist coming to Pristina, coming to Kosovo.
• 45:52
  And everyone that has arrived in Pristina, they are pleasantly
• 45:55
  surprised, positively pleasantly surprised how fantastic it is
• 46:00
  and what a great time they can have in Pristina, especially now
• 46:04
  Christmas is coming. We last year had one of the best
• 46:07
  Christmas markets in the whole of Europe and, and we are, we
• 46:13
  are, we are aiming of course to compete this year as well.
• 46:17
  And it's, we're already getting ready for it.
• 46:19
  So it is very easy, very cheap to fly to Pristina from Austria
• 46:25
  or from any other countries around Europe.
• 46:27
  So we welcome you all and I guarantee you that you'll have a
• 46:30
  fantastic time. You'll have great food, great
• 46:32
  drinks, great parties, great events, art and culture.
• 46:37
  It's a city of youth, a thriving city, very welcoming, very
• 46:42
  multilingual, very hospitable. So as you know, and, and, and so
• 46:48
  please do come, do come and let's celebrate together.
• 46:52
  That's a very kind invitation. You heard it here first.
• 46:55
  Pristina, the capital of the Republic of Kosovo, a very
• 46:58
  competent and very sympathetic and very European mayor.
• 47:02
  The city is now in safe hands for the next four years, in
• 47:06
  competent hands, and you will transform this city in this
• 47:10
  capital of a European Union member State, of a NATO ally in
• 47:13
  the next 4 years. We are very honoured.
• 47:15
  I'm very happy that we had the opportunity to talk to you here
• 47:19
  at the end of at the very special week actually, because
• 47:22
  it's the Albanian National Day. I think on the 28th is the
• 47:27
  special day. So I'm happy that you took day
• 47:30
  this day and this week you took time for this talk.
• 47:33
  And I thank you very much again for coming.
• 47:35
  Thank you and congratulations for the RE election and please
• 47:39
  transform Christina and everybody who listened to please
• 47:43
  visit this wonderful city and support Kosovo's Superway to the
• 47:48
  NATO, to EU and to Euro. They have already successfully
• 47:52
  since 20 years, more than 20 years.
• 47:54
  It's a wonderful place. I've lived there 5 happy years.
• 47:57
  Very friendly place. Please visit Pristina and thanks
• 48:00
  a lot, Mr. Mayor, for this opportunity to talk to you.
• 48:03
  And congratulations for the RE election.
• 48:06
  Thank you very much. Thank you very much for
• 48:08
  everything that you've done and for everything that you continue
• 48:11
  to do for the capital city, for Kosovo in in general.
• 48:15
  We are very thankful to you and all the listeners here, all the
• 48:18
  watchers, all the people that are watching us.
• 48:21
  We would of course be delighted to have you.
• 48:23
  Christina, do come join us, have fun and let's celebrate life
• 48:28
  together. Thank you.
• 48:30
  Very. Thank you very good.
• 48:32
  Thanks a lot. All the best, Cheers.
• 48:33
  All the best.