Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / GLAM MORNING TV ANCHOR DEEMED "TOO INSANE" TO BE TRIED IN BRUTAL STABBING DEATH OF 81-YO MOM

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GLAM MORNING TV ANCHOR DEEMED "TOO INSANE" TO BE TRIED IN BRUTAL STABBING DEATH OF 81-YO MOM · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A glamorous TV anchor has
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Speaker 1: just been determined to be quote too insane to be
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Speaker 1: tried for the murder the stabbing death of her eighty
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Speaker 1: one year old mom in bed. What I'm Nancy Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. That's right. A glamorous former TV anchor
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Speaker 1: accused of murdering her elderly mom too insane to be tried.
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Speaker 1: Angeline Mock taken into custody in Wichita, Kansas for allegedly
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Speaker 1: stabbing her mom, Anita avers dead. The mom found in
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Speaker 1: bed with multiple stab wounds. Okay, let's refresh our recollection
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Speaker 1: as to what happened to the eighty one year old mom.
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Speaker 2: Angeline Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City news scene,
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Speaker 2: gained popularity as the morning show hanker for Fox two.
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Speaker 2: Her career was marked by her engaging presence and dedication
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Speaker 2: to delivering the news, not knowing she would find herself
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Speaker 2: back the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
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Speaker 1: That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom
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Speaker 1: leaves her mother eighty years old, stabbed dead. What do
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Speaker 1: we know? There was a woman who came and approached
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Speaker 1: our vehicle with blood like her hands were filled, her
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Speaker 1: body was filled with blood, asking to conine one.
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Speaker 3: One seven am. Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in
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Speaker 3: their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down.
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Speaker 3: As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood,
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Speaker 3: a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman
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Speaker 3: asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one,
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Speaker 3: then takes off with the phone back into a house.
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Speaker 1: Astar if she was a king, and she was pretty
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Speaker 1: schicken up, and she seems scared and she just ran
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Speaker 1: off that from our friends, say kay Kae straight out
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Speaker 1: to Melissa McCarty joining us, investigative reporter, hosts of the
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Speaker 1: Killer Jeans podcast and author of a brandy book, The
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Speaker 1: Making of a Crime Reporter. Melissa, thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us now. Who is the woman sitting in a
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Speaker 1: car that observes Angeline, the morning TV anchor, running out
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Speaker 1: of the home covered in blood. Who is she?
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Speaker 4: She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend
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Speaker 4: and she watched everything unfold and she said she was
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Speaker 4: traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into
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Speaker 4: the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them,
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Speaker 4: begging for help, So obviously they stop and she's asking
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Speaker 4: for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell
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Speaker 4: phone and she takes it, runs inside the house.
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Speaker 1: And doesn't return. The informant the neighbor refers to Angelaine
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Speaker 1: Mock as this woman's specifically this woman. A lot of
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Speaker 1: people are going to get face to face with a
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Speaker 1: turkey this Thursday, because it is Thanksgiving and because so
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Speaker 1: many people are going to be basing their turkey. We
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Speaker 1: do like to talk about grease and where it should go.
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Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know that all that grease
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Speaker 1: everybody on the block is cooking a turkey, and that
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Speaker 1: grease can be very problematic. That is from our friends
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Speaker 1: at Fox two News, and that is Angelain Mack who
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Speaker 1: ran from the home covered in blood, curious to Dan
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Speaker 1: Murphy joining US former NYPD detective sergeant on the Joint
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Speaker 1: Terrorism Task Force and former chief security officer, co host
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Speaker 1: of a hit podcast, gold Shields. Dan Murphy, you know
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Speaker 1: this woman, the TV anchor, is drenched in blood. When
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Speaker 1: police finally get to the scene, they find something even worse.
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Speaker 1: Her eighty year old mother, apparently bedridden, is stabbed dead
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Speaker 1: in her own bed. That's the mom on the left.
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Speaker 1: The mom is Anita Avers. I think she actually turned
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Speaker 1: eighty one just before her stabbing death. So where do
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Speaker 1: you even start with a scene like.
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Speaker 5: That, Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want
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Speaker 5: to give any medical aid you can at this point
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Speaker 5: if the person is not clearly deceased, and even if
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Speaker 5: they are, a medical personnel have to come and attend
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Speaker 5: to them, which is going to disturb the scene a bit,
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Speaker 5: but it has to be done. Then you're going to
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Speaker 5: want to preserve all the evidence you can. And I've
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Speaker 5: been in blood bets and you have to walk gingerly
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Speaker 5: around them and wear those little booties. But it needs
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Speaker 5: to be done because later on the evidence is all
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Speaker 5: going to speak through experts to a jury. So right
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Speaker 5: now you're preserving.
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Speaker 1: Evidence you're deserving. You know a piece of evidence that
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Speaker 1: is commonly fumbled through nobody's fault, and that's footprints. When
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Speaker 1: you have a bloodbath like the one that happened at
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Speaker 1: the time of this Fox News anchor, every blood marking matters.
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Speaker 1: It could be spray back. For instance, this is a
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Speaker 1: stabbing death the mother an eighty one year old woman
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Speaker 1: is stabbed multiple times. Think ted Bundy right and the
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Speaker 1: clubbing right. That's called throwback where the victim is hit
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Speaker 1: forcefully and then the perpetrator swings back to strike again.
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Speaker 1: That blood is cast off right. The cast off, if
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Speaker 1: measured correctly, can determine maybe even the height of the defendant,
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Speaker 1: may be the position in which they were when the
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Speaker 1: attack occurred. You can tell how many times. If you
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Speaker 1: can't tell from the body, you can tell from the
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Speaker 1: cast off how many times the person was stabbed because
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Speaker 1: every time there was a swing back, it hits in
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Speaker 1: a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling.
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Speaker 1: And speaking of ceilings significant explain why ceilings are important
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Speaker 1: in a case like this, that they be processed just
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Speaker 1: like all the other blood evidence.
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Speaker 5: Because blood evidence is airborne once it becomes a part
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Speaker 5: of cast off, and it will leave an impression upon
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Speaker 5: the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this,
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Speaker 5: that evidence is going to be important because the blood
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Speaker 5: spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel
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Speaker 5: who understands zerology, and you understand the science of blood
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Speaker 5: and how it moves and how it forms and what
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Speaker 5: formations look like when it's cast off of another. So
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Speaker 5: that preservation of evidence is vital, and you would want
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Speaker 5: to take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence.
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Speaker 1: What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with
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Speaker 1: you as evidence.
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Speaker 5: I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units,
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Speaker 5: pieces of flooring cut out, depending upon the nature of
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Speaker 5: the crime. Now this week it became a homicide. You're
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Speaker 5: going to take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it.
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Speaker 5: But also you may want to take the actual physical
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Speaker 5: piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that
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Speaker 5: you can cut out, you may want to take it.
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Speaker 5: It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may
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Speaker 5: want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with
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Speaker 5: you in case it's challenge But those pieces of evidence
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Speaker 5: are going to tell a story. And in thorough investigations,
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Speaker 5: I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and taken into custody.
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Speaker 1: You know, we got started on this discussion talking about
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Speaker 1: floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined
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Speaker 1: really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene.
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Speaker 1: You know, everybody shees have to be taken and there
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Speaker 1: has to be a print made of them to compare
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Speaker 1: to bloody she prints, if there are any on the floor.
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Speaker 1: The only people that should go into that room are
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Speaker 1: the ones who are burdened with tying to save a life.
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Speaker 1: That's it. And then if they can't save the eighty
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Speaker 1: one year old mom's life, they have to very gingerly
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Speaker 1: back out and get the hay out of there so
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Speaker 1: the work can begin. But when you're trying to save
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Speaker 1: somebody's life, that's your paramount concern. You're not worried about
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Speaker 1: bloody footprints. Okay, let's go back to what happened. This
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Speaker 1: is it, and this is a whole other can of worms.
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Speaker 1: Dan Murphy. This happened around seven a m. Seven am,
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Speaker 1: which statistically is very rare for a bloodbath, a deadly
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Speaker 1: blood bath to go down before breakfast. Okay, listen.
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Speaker 2: Nine one one is called and relays a message to
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Speaker 2: first responders. A woman says there has been a stabbing
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Speaker 2: in her home this morning.
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Speaker 6: At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded to a
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Speaker 6: stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of East Crowley.
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Speaker 6: When officers arrived on scene, they were met in the
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Speaker 6: street with a forty forty eight year old wife feet email,
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Speaker 6: who had suffered from some cutting cuts to her hand.
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Speaker 1: Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer. Jim Elliott attorney
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Speaker 1: with Butler Snow Legal counsel for multiple municipalities and governmental
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Speaker 1: entities at butlersnow dot com. Jim, thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us. Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases
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Speaker 1: in court. Blood evidence is very tricky, especially if you
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Speaker 1: don't know what you're doing. But one thing I would
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Speaker 1: be looking at is the degree to which the blood
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Speaker 1: had coagulated at the time when amts and first responders
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Speaker 1: get there, and it's really difficult, Jim, You've been on
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Speaker 1: a lot of scenes. They're trying to save the eighty
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Speaker 1: one year old mom's life. They're not thinking has the
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Speaker 1: blood coagulated. They're trying to resuscitate her and get her
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Speaker 1: airlifted to the hospital, where I would come in as
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Speaker 1: the prosecutor, is critical that we know whether the blood
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Speaker 1: had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's kind of
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Speaker 1: like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore. It's
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Speaker 1: more of a jello consistency that's coagulated, and the harder
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Speaker 1: it gets, the closer it gets to being dried in
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Speaker 1: your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important that
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Speaker 1: we know whether the blood was still liquid as in water,
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Speaker 1: semi coagulated as in jell O, or flat out dried.
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Speaker 7: Well, certainly I go to what time the crime actually
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Speaker 7: occurred or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case
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Speaker 7: you're only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the
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Speaker 7: first responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without
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Speaker 7: a great deal of exportation in that regard.
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam.
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Speaker 1: We've got to have more than that. We have to
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Speaker 1: have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But
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Speaker 1: the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for
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Speaker 1: the entire CSI to arrive, and you could lose that
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Speaker 1: critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know
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Speaker 1: when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple
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Speaker 1: times in her bed. You know another thing, Elliot, I
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Speaker 1: noticed this when prosecuting an inner city Atlanta, when the
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Speaker 1: victim is very young, like an infant, or very old.
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Speaker 1: For some reason, those cases are very often pled down
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Speaker 1: to like manslaughter, some degree you got voluntary, you got
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Speaker 1: involuntary I don't know why, but have you noticed that
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Speaker 1: phenomena used to burn me up? Like somehow because the
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Speaker 1: victim is really young and hadn't lived yet as an
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Speaker 1: infant or really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you
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Speaker 1: notice that. I'd love to see statistic on that.
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Speaker 7: Well, that's certainly communication. I guess that's kind of driven
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Speaker 7: by the value of the life at the time of
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Speaker 7: the passing.
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Speaker 8: You know, you kids getting all the Elliot coverage of
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Speaker 8: the event and pictures seem to.
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Speaker 1: Be going off commercial break the value of the life.
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Speaker 1: You know what. You sound a lot like a civil
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Speaker 1: lawyer right now, where you try to get a money
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Speaker 1: verdict from a jury and you ask the jury to
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Speaker 1: put a dollar value on somebody's life. So what if
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Speaker 1: they're old, Jim Elliott, they're just not worth as much,
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Speaker 1: Go ahead and put it out there. It's the usual.
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Speaker 7: It's the usual measure of damages, Nancy. Whether it's morally
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Speaker 7: right or it's everyone's code of ethics or not, that's
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Speaker 7: the way our system works with regard to that measurement.
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Speaker 7: That's what I'm talking about.
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Speaker 1: Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a
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Speaker 1: lot of cas with civil juries. And now I see
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Speaker 1: why because you actually said that, like it's true. Just
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Speaker 1: because it is done, Elliott, does not mean it should
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Speaker 1: be done. That doesn't mean it's okay just because it happens.
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Speaker 1: A dollar value on a life, that premise right there
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Speaker 1: is concerning to me. But that said, Jim Elliott, I
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Speaker 1: want you to tell me the truth. Isn't it true
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Speaker 1: that when the victim is an infant and you don't
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Speaker 1: have a whole lot of cute Christmas pictures and you know,
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Speaker 1: baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney all that, and
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Speaker 1: a really old victim. I am telling you it's anecdotal,
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Speaker 1: not a statistic, that those plea deals are cheaper than
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Speaker 1: they are for just to say, a young, vibrant man
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Speaker 1: or woman. Have you noticed that, be honest?
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Speaker 7: Yeah, it can be. I think with regard to the
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Speaker 7: younger people, you can't really paint a picture of their
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Speaker 7: life for the jury. That's what prosecutors will probably worry about.
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Speaker 7: With regard to an older person. Again, there's this there's
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Speaker 7: going to be this attitude that they live their.
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Speaker 3: Life and.
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Speaker 7: Sadly is it.
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Speaker 1: That may be the attitude Elliott, but don't bring it
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Speaker 1: to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries. Okay,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to let Elliott sit there and think about
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Speaker 1: what he just said and move this case forward. Listen.
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Speaker 9: Arriving at the home at seven point fifty two am,
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Speaker 9: Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts
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Speaker 9: in her hands and blood on her clothing. Inside, they
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Speaker 9: find eighty one year old Anita Avers Own responsive inner
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Speaker 9: bed with multiple stab wounds.
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Speaker 1: Both women are taking to the hospital.
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Speaker 6: Officers went inside the residence found an eighty one year
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Speaker 6: old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds.
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Speaker 1: Both were transported to local hospitals. My got to Melissa
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Speaker 1: McCarty joining us side, Missi ad reporter, host of the
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Speaker 1: Killer Jeans podcast, which is awesome, Melissa McCarty and author
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Speaker 1: of the Making of a Crime Reporter Melissa, what can
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Speaker 1: you tell me about the victims stabs? What have you learned?
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Speaker 4: Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as stars
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Speaker 4: was an upper body, her face, the specific areas police
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Speaker 4: haven't released that just yet, but she was attacked reportedly
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Speaker 4: in her bed with multiple stab wounds.
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Speaker 1: I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said.
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Speaker 1: Karen Start joining me. A forensic psychologist renowned TV radio
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Speaker 1: trauma expert consultant at Karenstart dot com. If you're looking
15:45
Speaker 1: for her, it's Karen with a C. Karen, I want
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Speaker 1: to talk to you about something that shocked.
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Speaker 2: Me to the core.
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Speaker 1: And you know, Karen, you and I bonded together in very,
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Speaker 1: very long hours in the dark at Court TV studios
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Speaker 1: where you and I would sit there. I believe there
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Speaker 1: were three or four hour shifts we had watching trials
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Speaker 1: live and commenting on them whenever there would be a break.
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Speaker 1: Even after all that, after all the cases I've tried,
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Speaker 1: after all the cases you have worked on, I was
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Speaker 1: so shocked with the Brian Coburger attacks in that well,
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Speaker 1: many things, but the stabbing to the face of Killy
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Speaker 1: Gonsalvess and Maddie. I believe Killy gonsolves she was stabbed
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Speaker 1: multiple times, but in her face alone there were over
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Speaker 1: twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a trial lawyer, you're
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Speaker 1: the shrink. But when a victim is stabbed repeatedly in
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Speaker 1: the face, there has got to be a psychological motivation there.
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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I bet you do.
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Speaker 8: That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because he's trying
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Speaker 8: to wipe out her face. He's angry even though he
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Speaker 8: had no contact with her. This is a guy who
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Speaker 8: just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He
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Speaker 8: was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person.
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Speaker 8: In some instances, a killer will put a cover over
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Speaker 8: somebody's face, a pillow, something to hide them. They just
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Speaker 8: don't want to see and they want to obliterate that person.
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Speaker 2: She was beautiful and that really.
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Speaker 8: Disturbed him, like, let me get rid of who she
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Speaker 8: is in all her beauty, because she doesn't want me.
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Speaker 1: You know another thing, Karen Stark. You know my mom
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Speaker 1: who's going to be ninety four in December and lives
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Speaker 1: with us. The act of stabbing a little old in
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Speaker 1: her bed, either bedridden or asleep, that's a whole another
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Speaker 1: level of evil right there. Now. I know, no one's
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Speaker 1: life is more valuable than another person's life. I don't
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Speaker 1: care if we're talking about a movie star, TV star
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Speaker 1: like Matthew Perry or we're talking about this eighty one
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Speaker 1: year old ma. But to attack a completely defenseless person,
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Speaker 1: that's a whole another can of worms. Psychologically, what is that?
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Speaker 1: It's like shooting killing a mockingbird.
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Speaker 8: That's true, but we don't really know, Nancy, what was
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Speaker 8: going on inside of that person's head.
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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, excuse me one moment. Did I just hear
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Speaker 1: you say it matters what's going on inside that person's head,
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Speaker 1: the stabber, the killer, I don't care what's going on
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Speaker 1: in their head there legally insane, doesn't matter. You know
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Speaker 1: how many years it took me to figure that out?
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Speaker 1: It was either five or seven because I marked it.
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Speaker 1: I would sit in court looking over at the defendant,
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Speaker 1: always a violent felon, because everything else will get plat out,
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Speaker 1: thinking why why would they do this? Finally I think
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Speaker 1: it was year five. I'm like, why am I asking why?
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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what's going on inside his head? I
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Speaker 1: have a case to prove, and I'm going to prove it.
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Speaker 10: So are you as an eighty one year old bedridden
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Speaker 10: woman in her bed stabbed multiple times potentially in the face,
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Speaker 10: and you want me to figure out what's going on
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Speaker 10: in the killer's mind?
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Speaker 1: Did you say that? Now?
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Speaker 8: I said, we don't know what's going on. But what
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Speaker 8: I was trying to say, Nancy, is that who, however
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Speaker 8: this person was, they had tremendous, just like Coberger, rage,
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Speaker 8: rage to do so many stab wounds, rage to do
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Speaker 8: somebody's space. If that actually happened, something was going on
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Speaker 8: with they really did not want to make that person
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Speaker 8: be recognizable. They were obsessed in this killing.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Graith Sedsrick County District Judge Jeff
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Speaker 1: Goring rules Angelaine Mott, the Glam TV reporter. The Glam
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Speaker 1: TV anchor was incompetent to stand trial after a psychologists
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Speaker 1: report was given to the court. Now, difference incompetency to
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Speaker 1: stand trial simply means you are not fit to help
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Speaker 1: your defense lawyer with your defense. Insanity means you did
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Speaker 1: not know right from wrong at the time of the incident.
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Speaker 1: In this case, the stabbing of her own mother. As
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Speaker 1: we go to air right now, Mock sent to Larned
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Speaker 1: State Hospital for further evaluation and treatment. But if she
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Speaker 1: gets rehabilitated with meds, she will be right back in
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Speaker 1: the courtroom to stand trial for this brutal stabbing death
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Speaker 1: of her own mother. Then she can tell the jury
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Speaker 1: she was insane at the time she killed her own mother. Okay,
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Speaker 1: what do we know what happened inside that home with.
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Speaker 2: Over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist, Angie
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Speaker 2: Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically,
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Speaker 2: she now finds herself at the center of a murder.
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Speaker 1: Case, joining us Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The
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Speaker 1: Killer Jeans Melissa, both women were transported to the hospital.
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Speaker 1: Describe their two injuries because they are diametrically opposed.
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Speaker 4: Right, as had multiple stab wounds and when she was
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Speaker 4: transported she ended up dying at the hospital, was pronounced
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Speaker 4: about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some cuts
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Speaker 4: on her hands, and she was treated.
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Speaker 1: As well and release. If I am not mistaken, she
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Speaker 1: was treated and released as right, very same day, very
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Speaker 1: same day. Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please, Melissa McCarty,
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Speaker 1: are you telling me that the eighty one year old
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Speaker 1: mother was stabbed multiple times in the torso and possibly
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Speaker 1: the face and dies and the glamorous TV anchor had
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Speaker 1: some cuts on her hands? Is that right? That's right,
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Speaker 1: that's right. She was also covered in blood. Covered in blood.
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Speaker 1: Now I find it very curious to Dave mac joining
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Speaker 1: us Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious, indeed, how did
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Speaker 1: the Morning TV news anchor survive the attack with a
23:06
Speaker 1: few cuts on her hands, and her mother, bedridden, is
23:12
Speaker 1: the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead.
23:17
Speaker 1: How does that happen?
23:19
Speaker 3: You know? And Nancy, that's the question that they're going
23:21
Speaker 3: to have to answer very quickly, because she was able
23:25
Speaker 3: to get out of the house and wave down help.
23:28
Speaker 3: Remember Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is
23:32
Speaker 3: waving down people for help and get the cell phone
23:36
Speaker 3: from somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and
23:39
Speaker 3: runs back into the house. So she's still got plenty
23:42
Speaker 3: of energy. She's still able to get up and go
23:44
Speaker 3: and ask for help. And yet her mother is there
23:48
Speaker 3: in the bed having been massacred. So don't know what
23:53
Speaker 3: exactly transpired, except she had plenty of energy to go
23:56
Speaker 3: out and get help for herself.
23:58
Speaker 1: Dave mac do you know what you just to me
24:01
Speaker 1: when you're talking about her mother. I felt like I
24:05
Speaker 1: swallowed a lump of coal, like something stuck in my throat.
24:08
Speaker 1: I just want to jump up and run to get
24:11
Speaker 1: to my mom and check on her. Okay, what you
24:15
Speaker 1: just brought up something really interesting that I hadn't thought of.
24:18
Speaker 1: Not just that she survived in maniacal killer with a
24:21
Speaker 1: few cuts on her hands, but somehow was drenched in blood.
24:26
Speaker 1: Isn't that right, Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched
24:29
Speaker 1: in blood all over the front of her right, correct, Dave.
24:33
Speaker 1: Back back to you. So she's drenched in blood from
24:36
Speaker 1: what the cuts on her hands, But you brought up
24:39
Speaker 1: that she's still an excellent condition. No blow to the head,
24:45
Speaker 1: no gash, no wound to her the back of her head.
24:49
Speaker 1: She is alert, she's not screaming, get the guy, Get
24:54
Speaker 1: the guy. Somebody broke in her house. There's which reminds me.
24:58
Speaker 1: Was there any sign of forced entry, Dave mac at all?
25:01
Speaker 3: None whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy.
25:05
Speaker 3: And like you said, she's got plenty of time and
25:08
Speaker 3: energy to go around and go outside the house and
25:12
Speaker 3: seek help. So she's able to have her thoughts. She's
25:16
Speaker 3: not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought
25:19
Speaker 3: together here. She's able to go outside and get help.
25:23
Speaker 3: And you know, she didn't seem to be other than
25:26
Speaker 3: the blood on her hands, doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever.
25:30
Speaker 4: You know.
25:30
Speaker 1: That's also curious. She says she's not freaked out, but
25:34
Speaker 1: she did run out of the house to borrow a
25:37
Speaker 1: stranger who was a neighbor, but they didn't really know
25:39
Speaker 1: each other's phone, grabbed the neighbor's phone, and then ran
25:44
Speaker 1: back into the home with it. I wonder why she
25:46
Speaker 1: didn't use a phone in the home, or her own
25:49
Speaker 1: cell phone. I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave.
25:52
Speaker 1: If I found someone injured in our home, I would
25:56
Speaker 1: not run out in the street to try to borrow
26:00
Speaker 1: somebody's phone that may or may not be out there.
26:02
Speaker 1: I would use the home phone if they have one,
26:04
Speaker 1: or my cell phone. That's odd, isn't it. Don't you
26:07
Speaker 1: find that odds?
26:09
Speaker 3: I found it odd that she ran outside the house
26:12
Speaker 3: because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned,
26:16
Speaker 3: she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the
26:20
Speaker 3: wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean,
26:21
Speaker 3: come on, you probably got in that home. You probably
26:24
Speaker 3: still got a wall on, a phone on the wall,
26:27
Speaker 3: not to mention several cell phones from the adults that
26:29
Speaker 3: are there in the home. But instead of any of that,
26:31
Speaker 3: she goes outside, and all I'm thinking, if we're maybe
26:36
Speaker 3: she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't
26:41
Speaker 3: know Nancy, it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your
26:43
Speaker 3: mother in.
26:43
Speaker 1: Bed outside afraid of the killer still in the house.
26:49
Speaker 1: I like that, Dave, He's got a future in fiction. Listen.
26:53
Speaker 3: The eighty one year old Anita Avers found unresponsive in
26:56
Speaker 3: her bed with multiple stab wounds, transported to the hospital,
27:00
Speaker 3: as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached
27:02
Speaker 3: police in the street when they arrived. Mack, a former
27:05
Speaker 3: television news anchor reporter, is treated and released from the hospital.
27:08
Speaker 1: Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Angimu. Thank you.
27:13
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to get here. And I look for
27:16
Speaker 1: a kuduct meeing with you guys out there in Saint
27:19
Speaker 1: Louis from Fox Too.
27:21
Speaker 2: The former news anchor was living with her eighty year
27:23
Speaker 2: old mother in their Wichita home.
27:26
Speaker 3: On Halloween night.
27:27
Speaker 2: The spotlight shifted dramatically onto Mock as events took a
27:31
Speaker 2: dark turn.
27:32
Speaker 1: A dark turn. Again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig.
27:38
Speaker 1: A dark turn. It sounds like a mystery novel. This
27:42
Speaker 1: is no mystery novel, and it's not a dark turn.
27:44
Speaker 1: It's murder, and it's the murder of a defenseless eighty
27:48
Speaker 1: one year old woman apparently bed ridden. You know, I
27:54
Speaker 1: just heard something to Melissa McCarty. Is it true that
27:59
Speaker 1: the glam Morning TV anchor was living with her mother?
28:05
Speaker 1: What in her mother's home? Whose home was that? That's
28:08
Speaker 1: what it seems.
28:09
Speaker 4: So police have not gone on the record to confirm it,
28:12
Speaker 4: but it seems as though they were living together.
28:15
Speaker 1: Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did angelin
28:21
Speaker 1: mock end up unscathed? She was treated? What? Jim Elliott?
28:28
Speaker 1: They spread a little back teen Orner went goodbye, goodbye?
28:33
Speaker 10: What?
28:33
Speaker 1: And the mother's dead? Stab multiple times? You don't you
28:37
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with that, because I do.
28:40
Speaker 7: Well, So I think you know, the difference is an
28:42
Speaker 7: eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty
28:45
Speaker 7: or thirty years younger. The younger person could arguably be
28:49
Speaker 7: more able to defend herself than with her mother.
28:52
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I
28:55
Speaker 1: see where you're going with that. Doctor pre Banerjy is
28:59
Speaker 1: with US doctor Priya Board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic
29:04
Speaker 1: pathologist with Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting. Let's just say she's
29:09
Speaker 1: seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Priya, What is
29:15
Speaker 1: the difference between a defensive stab wound and a stab wound?
29:20
Speaker 1: You would get to your hands when you are the attacker,
29:26
Speaker 1: for instance, your hand sliding down the knife, unless you're
29:31
Speaker 1: like Brian Coberger who had a k bar knife which
29:35
Speaker 1: has a hilt. What is a hilt? It looks like
29:38
Speaker 1: a cross. There is a section that turns the blade,
29:45
Speaker 1: it bisects it and if you're the staber, your hand
29:48
Speaker 1: would stop at the hilt. Okay, So if there is
29:55
Speaker 1: a knife that does not have a hilt, how can
29:59
Speaker 1: you tell the difference between a wound sustained to the
30:03
Speaker 1: hand if you are the stabber versus a defensive wound. Well,
30:09
Speaker 1: I think that could be challenging. You need to look
30:11
Speaker 1: at where it is. If you're putting your hands up
30:14
Speaker 1: this way on the back, that is obviously defensive. You're
30:17
Speaker 1: not going to in any way have the knife ub
30:21
Speaker 1: use the back of your hand to stab someone now,
30:23
Speaker 1: but on the palms and it's really deep. Maybe you
30:27
Speaker 1: did have a grabbing motion where the knife slipped. Remember,
30:31
Speaker 1: repeated stabs make the knife bloody, which makes it slippery. Earlier,
30:37
Speaker 1: you heard a veteran trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe why
30:42
Speaker 1: the morning TV news star could have escaped a deranged
30:48
Speaker 1: killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger than
30:52
Speaker 1: her eighty one year old mother. Typically, the state does
30:55
Speaker 1: not have to prove motive. But I'd be very curious
30:59
Speaker 1: to find out who would want to kill an eighty
31:02
Speaker 1: one year old little old lady asleep in bed. The
31:07
Speaker 1: degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms, being
31:14
Speaker 1: very very physically active. Yes, I could see that as
31:18
Speaker 1: it is. Cause let's take a look at Angeline Mock.
31:21
Speaker 1: We Ferl's biggest fan Anngie Mock.
31:23
Speaker 3: Hey, big fan?
31:24
Speaker 1: Right? Oh? Huge? Lambert Airport better get ready for me.
31:28
Speaker 3: You're going to be there, right, Yeah, I'm Angie Mock
31:32
Speaker 3: is a former TV anchor who spent several years waking
31:34
Speaker 3: up the Saint Louis area anchoring the morning news on
31:37
Speaker 3: Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter and anchor
31:40
Speaker 3: working for Fox twenty five, Oklahoma City, KLK in Nebraska,
31:44
Speaker 3: now NBC Montana, and others.
31:46
Speaker 1: I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things
31:49
Speaker 1: that come to the Saint Louis area. How do we
31:51
Speaker 1: go about training like the professional.
31:54
Speaker 3: Last curve Vaal straight it out.
31:58
Speaker 1: Very that's from our friends Fox two News, and we
32:01
Speaker 1: showed you that to explain that Jim Elliott is absolutely correct.
32:06
Speaker 1: She's in great physical shape. So is that how she
32:12
Speaker 1: escapes the deranged killer and her mother does not? To
32:16
Speaker 1: Melissa McCarty joining us from Killer Jeans, was there a
32:21
Speaker 1: force entry? Did first responders see anyone leaving the home
32:26
Speaker 1: or did the neighbor who lent her cell phone to
32:30
Speaker 1: mok did she see anyone leaving the home or a
32:32
Speaker 1: car speeding away anything like that.
32:34
Speaker 4: There was no forced entry, and according to police, there
32:38
Speaker 4: were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her
32:41
Speaker 4: mom on responsive inside the home.
32:44
Speaker 1: That's it. Did she make a statement at all? To
32:49
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, what if
32:53
Speaker 1: anything did Angie Mock have to say?
32:58
Speaker 3: Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of,
33:02
Speaker 3: and only getting secondhand information about what may or may
33:06
Speaker 3: not have been said to the nine one one dispatcher.
33:10
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What
33:13
Speaker 1: did she say?
33:15
Speaker 3: She said that she did it in self defense, that
33:20
Speaker 3: she was trying to save her own life, intimating that
33:24
Speaker 3: it was a fight with her mother and she had
33:27
Speaker 3: to use the knife to protect herself.
33:30
Speaker 1: Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she
33:37
Speaker 1: stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent
33:42
Speaker 1: words were she did it in self defense. What it
33:47
Speaker 1: was a kill or be kill situation? Is that where
33:49
Speaker 1: you're saying, Dave Mac that.
33:51
Speaker 3: Is exactly what I am saying that she claims.
33:54
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make.
33:57
Speaker 1: Check out Angie mak in that photo. Ouch, there's a
34:03
Speaker 1: side by side. I don't want to be part of that. Okay,
34:08
Speaker 1: hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran child lawyer. I
34:14
Speaker 1: guess this is one of the reasons you tell your
34:16
Speaker 1: clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to believe
34:23
Speaker 1: that Angelain Mock was defeating herself against her bedridden mother
34:28
Speaker 1: and a killer bee killed situation? I mean, how do
34:31
Speaker 1: you even look at a judge.
34:33
Speaker 7: She's gonna have to explain that, And I mean I
34:35
Speaker 7: guess they'll come up with some concept of who knows
34:38
Speaker 7: physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something of
34:41
Speaker 7: that sort that she may attribute it to.
34:44
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott. Now again you're just
34:47
Speaker 1: spinning it out. Put it in that, please, Jim Elliott.
34:50
Speaker 1: I'm you have children. I assume you read them the
34:54
Speaker 1: story of Rumpel Steelskin. Yes, of course, yes, okay, so
34:58
Speaker 1: you know where I'm going with this. Rumpel Stilskin took
35:02
Speaker 1: Hay and he just spun it out into gold. And
35:06
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing right now, now do you, Jim Elliott?
35:10
Speaker 1: And again, you're a veteran trial war law. Your record
35:13
Speaker 1: shows you want a lot of cases. You represent multiple
35:16
Speaker 1: state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow coming up with
35:22
Speaker 1: the theory that this anchor can I see her, please,
35:27
Speaker 1: that the TV anchor who can add lib, who can rescript,
35:32
Speaker 1: who can do all sorts stuff on air, antics that
35:39
Speaker 1: she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental, or emotional abuse.
35:44
Speaker 1: Did you just throw that out as a possibility, Jim Elliott.
35:48
Speaker 7: It's a possibility, certainly.
35:50
Speaker 1: And we don't know exactly.
35:50
Speaker 7: I mean, all she said was to save myself.
35:52
Speaker 10: We don't know what that means.
35:53
Speaker 7: We don't know where that means physically, whether there were
35:56
Speaker 7: other issues that play in their relationship or in her
35:59
Speaker 7: life or our mother's life, and I think that has
36:01
Speaker 7: to be fully explored before we can understand.
36:03
Speaker 1: But she's gonna have to explain my stars. I need
36:08
Speaker 1: a shrink crime stories with Nancy Grace insane or explosively intoxicated? Now.
36:29
Speaker 1: I asked that question because, according to a probable cause affidavit,
36:34
Speaker 1: Mock's stepfather, Barry, told police Mock had been laid off
36:39
Speaker 1: from her TV anchor job and after quote an explosive
36:45
Speaker 1: situation involving alcohol. Hmmm. He also told police Mott was
36:53
Speaker 1: diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Now that's later, according to sources,
36:59
Speaker 1: being advised to get so effective disorder. And as we
37:03
Speaker 1: have learned from the Nick Reiner case, voluntary use of
37:06
Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol is not a defense, and if it
37:11
Speaker 1: exacerbates makes worse a mental condition such as schizophrenia or bipolar.
37:19
Speaker 1: I don't know if a jury will excuse the behavior
37:23
Speaker 1: of the defendant if their own drinking or drugs made
37:27
Speaker 1: matters worse and then they committed a crime. That's a
37:32
Speaker 1: fun thing for the jury to figure out. But first,
37:34
Speaker 1: let's review the facts as we know them. Karen, start,
37:37
Speaker 1: how many times do your clients blame mommy? You know
37:42
Speaker 1: I've started a fund for my daughter and son for
37:47
Speaker 1: a shrink someday, because I'm sure they're gonna blame everything
37:50
Speaker 1: on me. Yes, mommy told me I was fill in
37:54
Speaker 1: the blank. My mommy made me fill in that blank.
37:58
Speaker 1: It's all mommy's fault. Did you hear Elliott? The woman
38:03
Speaker 1: is bedridden. She's eighty one years old. I don't know
38:06
Speaker 1: care what she told you when you were five years
38:08
Speaker 1: old to stand up straight and at your vegetables. What
38:11
Speaker 1: did you hear that? Because that's where this is going.
38:14
Speaker 8: It doesn't make any sense it really, if you think
38:17
Speaker 8: about it.
38:17
Speaker 1: Yes, mothers, fathers, they.
38:19
Speaker 8: Really affect their children growing up.
38:21
Speaker 1: And that's a fact.
38:23
Speaker 8: Whatever is going on this we're talking now about an
38:27
Speaker 8: adult and a mother who.
38:28
Speaker 1: Is eighty eighty one.
38:30
Speaker 8: There was no reason for that to still be held
38:34
Speaker 8: over and something that's in her psyche. At this point,
38:37
Speaker 8: she's gone on with her life and she should be
38:40
Speaker 8: doing really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen, because she's.
38:45
Speaker 1: Independent, Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind.
38:49
Speaker 1: We don't even know if there is anything that the
38:52
Speaker 1: now dead mom did the eighty one year old. For
38:55
Speaker 1: all I know, she was an incredible mom. We're just
38:59
Speaker 1: you are actually buy into Jim Elliott's theory that maybe
39:05
Speaker 1: maybe this woman was emotionally abused by her mom for
39:09
Speaker 1: years and years and years, so she just had a
39:11
Speaker 1: stabber dead. Well, that's the whole point.
39:13
Speaker 8: It doesn't matter what their relationship was like. It really
39:17
Speaker 8: does announcing because at this stage in her life she's
39:20
Speaker 8: a functioning we assume adult, and she should not be
39:24
Speaker 8: caring any kind of feelings about her mother.
39:27
Speaker 1: That's interfering.
39:28
Speaker 8: What would make her Who would do that stab their
39:32
Speaker 8: own mother?
39:32
Speaker 1: That hardly ever happens.
39:34
Speaker 2: Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residence. Angeline
39:38
Speaker 2: was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after
39:42
Speaker 2: stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discover her mother in bed
39:47
Speaker 2: suffering from multiple stablerers.
39:52
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a tactic that will likely be used
39:56
Speaker 1: by the state if this case goes forward. All of
40:00
Speaker 1: the clips that we're showing you, every word Angie Mock
40:05
Speaker 1: has uttered on air will be combed through and used
40:09
Speaker 1: if possible, in court to show that she was in
40:12
Speaker 1: her right mind. I mean, well, this is why there's
40:16
Speaker 1: got to be a mental defect defense, because she blurreded
40:20
Speaker 1: it out at the get and go listen.
40:26
Speaker 5: Raised about five to six nights, and that's with her mom.
40:30
Speaker 1: She's also in wells from home. Yeah, it was wonderful.
40:33
Speaker 1: Family was in town. They're leaving today. I don't know
40:36
Speaker 1: where my tissues are. That's all right. Family's in town,
40:40
Speaker 1: they're leaving today. That was from my friends at k
40:44
Speaker 1: a k E and Fox too. I want to hear
40:47
Speaker 1: that one more time, what she said on the scene
40:51
Speaker 1: or to the nine one one dispatch and then her
40:56
Speaker 1: crying about her family leaving after the holiday. Let's watch
40:59
Speaker 1: that one more time about five to sixty nine.
41:04
Speaker 9: And that's apparently with her mom.
41:06
Speaker 5: She's also.
41:08
Speaker 1: Good. Yeah, Oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town.
41:11
Speaker 1: They're leaving today. I don't know where my tissues are.
41:14
Speaker 1: That's all right. Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft
41:17
Speaker 1: ply tissues behind bars, Miss Mark. That's from k a
41:21
Speaker 1: K E and Fox to Okay. Dan Murphy, former NYPD
41:25
Speaker 1: detective sergeant, and so much more, author of workplace safety
41:30
Speaker 1: co host gold Shields podcast. It goes on and on
41:33
Speaker 1: and on thoughts.
41:35
Speaker 5: There's so many thoughts about this. When she came out
41:37
Speaker 5: of the house and said what she said, Allegedly she's
41:41
Speaker 5: putting herself as the person responsible for it.
41:44
Speaker 1: The reasons for it.
41:45
Speaker 5: Can get figured out later when you look at this situation.
41:48
Speaker 5: She's living with her mother for whatever reason, maybe as
41:50
Speaker 5: a caretaker, maybe a.
41:52
Speaker 1: Financial need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in.
41:57
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Sorry, that's one our friends at Fox. To everybody,
42:00
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Dan, go ahead looks as the life.
42:02
Speaker 5: Has helped her a very bad set of hand, bad hand,
42:06
Speaker 5: so to speak, set of cards. She does not look
42:09
Speaker 5: like the same person. Something is on a down slide,
42:11
Speaker 5: and maybe she blames the mother for things in her life,
42:14
Speaker 5: sees the mother as holding her back in many reasons.
42:16
Speaker 5: I would love to know the story, the true dynamic
42:20
Speaker 5: in the relationship, why she's living there, what caused this?
42:24
Speaker 5: In any other domestic calls there? What would lead her
42:27
Speaker 5: to this? Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe she.
42:30
Speaker 1: Her fake I'm sorry, but are you?
42:31
Speaker 3: Are you.
42:33
Speaker 1: A mental health professional? Because I thought you were former NYPD?
42:38
Speaker 1: To take a sergeant, I am, which.
42:39
Speaker 5: Is equivalent to a master's in psychology in many ways.
42:45
Speaker 1: Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is
42:49
Speaker 1: not required. I don't care.
42:52
Speaker 10: I mean, my.
42:55
Speaker 1: Non prosecutor side does care. But I'm talking about the
43:00
Speaker 1: facts that we're going to put in front of a jury.
43:03
Speaker 1: I am asking you. You're the former NYPD, and I
43:08
Speaker 1: keep saying that because you have more cases than practically
43:12
Speaker 1: any other jurisdiction in the country that you have handled.
43:15
Speaker 1: Personally analyze the facts. We'll deal with her mental defect
43:22
Speaker 1: defense that she's really paining herself in a corner with
43:25
Speaker 1: because she came out with self defense, so she stuck
43:29
Speaker 1: with it. That's not going away. She admitted she did
43:33
Speaker 1: it in self defense. Of course I don't believe that,
43:36
Speaker 1: and I want to hear what you think about the facts,
43:40
Speaker 1: not your amateur opinion, as mine would be too. I'm
43:45
Speaker 1: not a shrink about why she did it. Why does
43:49
Speaker 1: somebody stab a bed ridden eighty one year old woman?
43:52
Speaker 1: Don't care the bear facts. Scene cops get to the scene.
43:57
Speaker 5: She lives in the home with the mother, and she
44:01
Speaker 5: is covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who
44:04
Speaker 5: has either embraced a dead body covered in blood or
44:07
Speaker 5: somebody who himself was responsible for it. And the blood
44:10
Speaker 5: comes out arterial spurts and things like that. Second, she's
44:14
Speaker 5: got defensive wounds potentially or potentially from a handslideing down
44:18
Speaker 5: a knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being used
44:20
Speaker 5: to attack somebody. She makes a statement indicating she did it.
44:23
Speaker 5: There's no evidence of entry by anyone else into the residence.
44:27
Speaker 5: She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility. The mother
44:31
Speaker 5: is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed a threat
44:35
Speaker 5: with a knife to her daughter Fairfax, No other suspect.
44:39
Speaker 1: Here's a look at our top stories. Several victims survived
44:41
Speaker 1: a hail of bullets and two separate shootings, but those
44:44
Speaker 1: shootings were at the exact same location.
44:47
Speaker 3: A glamorous TV news anchor, mox stands charged with first
44:51
Speaker 3: degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one
44:53
Speaker 3: year old mother, Anita Avers.
44:55
Speaker 1: From Fox Too. What more are we learning tonight? A
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Speaker 1: glam TV anchor deemed insane or incompetent after stabbing her
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Speaker 1: mother dead. We've also learned that during a card game
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Speaker 1: about a week before the murder, Mock accused her family
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Speaker 1: of hating her and stated that she hated them. Now,
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Speaker 1: how does that play into now claiming insanity, insane, incompetent,
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Speaker 1: drunk on drugs, condition exacerbated. We don't know yet, But
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Speaker 1: what I do know is that eighty one year old
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Speaker 1: mom was stabbed multiple times in her own bed. We
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Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,