Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Dune Part Two with Costume Designer, Jacqueline West

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Dune Part Two with Costume Designer, Jacqueline West · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:07
I'm Lisa Joy Glass. And I'm the Reverend Mother
0:10
Spencer Williams. Hello, Reverend Munther.
0:16
Hello costume nerds. We're very excited.
0:18
This is a big episode for us because if you remember, we've
0:21
been talking about this episode since I believe March of this
0:26
year. We've been trying to make it
0:27
happen as we talked about Dune Part 2 earlier this year, and we
0:34
had to work it out on the remix because today we have a special
0:37
guest with us that we have a ton of questions for.
0:41
So we are talking, of course about Dune Part 2 with costume
0:45
designer Jacqueline West. I'm so excited.
0:50
Dude is one of the most extraordinary film series to
0:54
come out in a while. I feel like, yeah, maybe it was
0:59
just me being really excited for both of these, but it's just if
1:05
they're so immersive, that takes so much work and effort and
1:10
coordination. So yeah, just like a million
1:14
questions. And today, Spencer, what?
1:17
Happened we finally got Jacqueline West in the studio
1:21
with us I it's been a long time coming, but you know, Oscar
1:26
season is around the corner so yeah, now's the time to shine.
1:31
We're very excited to have her here, but before we get into it,
1:33
we have to get through some of our typical business.
1:36
So why don't I start us off with a summary?
1:39
Elizabeth, if any of you somehow forgot one of the greatest films
1:42
of the past decade, Dune Part 2 explores the mythic journey of
1:46
Paul Tradies as he unites with Cheney and the Fremen while on
1:51
the path of revenge against the conspirators who destroyed his
1:55
family. Facing a choice between the love
1:57
of his life and the fate of the known universe, he endeavours to
2:01
prevent a terrible future only he can foresee, and that is Dune
2:06
Art 2. Doom Art 2.
2:08
If you have not seen it, get on it.
2:11
It's on Max, I watched it last night for the 100th time and I
2:14
will be gaining it on Blu-ray. Let's just go behind the
2:18
costumes and I reacquaint ourselves with director Denis
2:25
Villeneuve and costume designer Jacqueline W.
2:29
You will know her work from Quills, for which she got an
2:33
Oscar nomination, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The
2:38
Curious Case of Benjamin Button for which she got an Oscar
2:44
nomination, The Social Network, Argo, The Revenant, another
2:48
Oscar nomination, Killers of the Flower Moon Oscar nomination,
2:54
and Doom Part 1 for She got an Oscar nomination and won a
2:59
Costume Designer Guild Award. Which leads me to the point I
3:04
want to make. I really think that not only
3:07
should Jacqueline W be nominated for Doom Part 2, I think it's
3:11
time the Academy does what is right and presents this
3:14
incredible design with the actual Oscar win that's neither
3:18
here nor there. I'm not a part of the Academy,
3:20
but that is my little standing on the soapbox campaign moment.
3:24
If you know, elections have not been going my way lately, so if
3:29
you could give me this one, we'd love it.
3:34
Do Part 2. Elizabeth, our special guest is
3:39
here. Let's take a quick break.
3:41
And when we come back, we're going to be with the one, the
3:43
only costume designer, Jacqueline West.
3:50
Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
3:54
I wanted to say thank you and if you want to support the show
3:56
even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash The Art
4:03
of Costume, where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
4:06
T-shirts, mugs and stickers. Also, be sure to leave a like
4:11
comment and subscribe. And if you're an audio listener,
4:15
leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
4:18
Now back to the show. I am so excited to welcome back
4:27
to the Art of Costume podcast, now for the second time, our
4:30
dear friend, costume designer Jacqueline W Hey Jackie, how are
4:35
you? I'm good.
4:36
How are you doing? We're doing so good.
4:38
We've been waiting for all year now to talk to you.
4:42
We've just been so excited and starting from the beginning.
4:45
Since this is the first time we've kind of talked to you
4:47
about Dune, You know, Dune is a massive universe.
4:50
We have the many novels by Frank Herbert, of course, which led to
4:54
the Jodorowski film that never was, the 1984 film by David
4:59
Lynch, and miniseries, so on and so forth.
5:02
So when it comes to starting Dune, you're no stranger to epic
5:06
films. Probably before Dune, I would
5:08
say maybe the last one would have been The Revenant.
5:11
So what were your thoughts about Dune?
5:13
Because this is such a massive universe, I have to imagine you
5:15
were a little, you know, ready to go, but probably a little
5:18
nervous too. Well, I remember when Denis
5:22
first asked me to do do and I said, oh, I would love to, but I
5:25
don't do sci-fi. And he said that's why I want
5:31
you Jacqueline. And I want this to be grounded
5:34
in reality and not urban cool. You know, he said, I want it to
5:39
be a timeless kind of masterpiece that people won't
5:42
forget. And he said I I love your work.
5:47
He was a a fan of The Revenant and he said I love how grounded
5:51
you make everything. So, you know, Mary Perrin got
5:55
involved and pretty soon I was talked into it and then loved
5:59
every minute ever after. Yeah, I mean, it feels like a
6:04
natural collaboration, honestly. Well, I had seen Denise movies
6:10
and I of course was a fan of his work, but Dune was a a huge
6:16
stretch for me. I thought I had never made
6:18
specialty costumes except many years ago on the League of
6:23
Extraordinary Gentlemen. And.
6:26
Very few, you know, just I got my feet wet, but I I hadn't
6:32
really created whole worlds, whole, you know, Doona verses of
6:39
armies. And it was it was a real
6:43
learning curve for me, which had to be expanded that every that
6:48
knowledge had to be expanded on for Dune Part 2, because all the
6:52
world's became expanded a little bit of the Harken and world in
6:58
Dune one. We really went into it in June 2
7:02
and created a whole, you know, gladiator arena and army, almost
7:07
like, you know, I based them on the Romans and it was a real
7:13
undertaking. And then I had to, you know,
7:16
expand on the whole steel suit theme and create an underworld
7:22
of the siege for the Fremen and with their whole cave like world
7:27
look like inside one of those clothings, you know, entailed
7:32
and were then I had to, you know, create the emperors whole
7:36
world and the world we find Irlon in.
7:39
And then expand on all the Bennett Jesuits that you have up
7:43
here behind Austin Butler and Timothy as they do their fight.
7:49
All those ancient Benedezera's were quite an undertaking.
7:53
So it was really just an expansion of June 1, June 2.
7:57
But it June 1 was so informative on how I would go about doing
8:04
that on June twos. June June 1 was school and June
8:08
2 was university. That's an understatement.
8:14
Oh, it definitely is. And your collaboration with
8:18
Denis Villeneuve is just so extraordinary and he's such a
8:22
brilliant director. Can you talk a little bit more
8:25
about your collaboration and getting this massive Dune world
8:30
to look so wonderful? Well, Denis, he really feels the
8:35
spirit of the novel, you know, and he really follows it like no
8:40
one has. I think if Frank Herbert were
8:44
alive, he would be so pleased with how Denis has created the
8:49
world that he wrote about. He's loved this book since he
8:54
was 12, and I really feel that he's so articulate, describing
9:01
how he sees things. And what Denny doesn't like is
9:04
as informative as the things he loves.
9:08
And when I show him something and I don't hear, I deeply love
9:12
it. Jacqueline, I keep working on it
9:15
and I have it because he has a gut reaction to things and he
9:22
and sometimes he can't describe what he wants, but he knows when
9:26
he sees it. And so often I'll create a whole
9:29
meson scenes in my wardrobe. Like I have like a huge, huge
9:36
like an airplane hanger that's we use for wardrobe.
9:40
It's huge, huge buildings. And I'll, I'll even have my
9:45
concept artist like paint a wall behind it so he can get the
9:49
feeling of how people in the desert or how the Benet deserts
9:54
will look coming off a highliner.
9:56
And I'll use wind machines and dress the mannequins and really
10:01
create a whole world for him. And he'll say, I love that,
10:04
that, Oh yes, that, no, not that, but that, you know, and,
10:08
and it's so exciting when he comes through.
10:10
He comes through about every two days and I try to have new stuff
10:13
to show him because it's so massive.
10:16
But I remember doing a whole huge lineup of all the Femen in
10:20
their robes and all the Erekians in their robes and all the water
10:25
masters sitting around the pool outside, you know, with their
10:29
kind of African style masks. And, and it lets him kind of see
10:33
what the scenes are going to look like when we do get to the
10:36
desert. But yeah, we work very, very
10:39
closely. And I love, absolutely love
10:42
working with him. And he often brings me ideas.
10:46
I'm not the only I'm not furnishing him with ideas only
10:50
for him to say yay or nay. But like for the picadors in the
10:54
gladiator scene, he brought me the tiny stick drawing of it's
11:00
like, you know, something, just a stick, a stick man drawing but
11:04
with this big arch of a Black Hat.
11:06
And we made them. From that little.
11:09
Picture came the picadors. So just a little quick sketchy
11:14
done. You know, it's just it's it's so
11:17
much fun working with him. I think we both kind of thrill
11:20
each other with with ideas. That's incredible.
11:24
And you said earlier that he wanted you because he wanted
11:28
this film grounded in realism. And we've discussed on the
11:32
podcast your love of research. So while Dune takes place at a
11:37
very distant future, the story and the people are relatable,
11:41
especially the Fremen. So what did your research and
11:44
like the cornerstones of that research really look like?
11:48
Well, when I read Frank Herbert's interviews long ago,
11:52
he said to understand the distant future you had to look
11:56
at the far past. And so I kind of looked at
12:00
different cultures. I think for a lot of Dune, I
12:04
used a lot of medieval references for the Fremen and
12:09
the Ericsians. I looked at desert peoples.
12:13
I didn't base it on anyone tribe, but I looked at Touregs
12:17
and better ones and I looked at a lot of Middle Eastern desert
12:23
tribes, Turkish tribes. And for one, the Toure, they use
12:28
the same dye vets to dye their robes in Morocco in the Gemma
12:33
Elfinah that they've used for 800 years.
12:36
So when you watch the ride the salt trails on camels to this
12:41
day and cook in the sand, they, they have learned how to live in
12:45
their environment successfully and how to use their environment
12:51
and how to not be at war with it like we are.
12:55
And they were definite inspiration with all the head
12:59
wraps and the flowing robes and the the way they'll wrap their
13:03
faces to keep out the desert sand when it blows.
13:07
That was all inspiring for me. And then I use these wonderful
13:11
French books called the Orientalists that are based, you
13:15
know, on all the Middle Eastern tribes, really age-old paintings
13:20
of what the people look like back in time to create all of
13:26
that. And the steel suit was, you
13:30
know, really described quite in detail by Frank Herbert.
13:34
So that became, you know, a challenge to to get all of that
13:39
right. So it really did look like it
13:41
was a distillery recycling human waste liquids into potable
13:46
liquid. Well, we're excited to dive into
13:50
Part 2 and some of the transitions some of these
13:53
characters saw, some of them more subtle than others.
13:56
In the second film, Timothy Chalamet as Paul Tradies AKA
14:00
Madib AKA Elisa now gave goes on the journey into the depths of a
14:06
Rakis, becoming one with the Fremen.
14:09
So what changes, if any, were made to Paul's costume in his
14:12
second film to sort of show that transition?
14:16
In our podcast we earlier this year Elizabeth and I talked
14:19
about how we felt like Paul slowly became Darth Vader,
14:24
almost with his hood, even though it's so subtle.
14:27
So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on his costume.
14:30
Well, I felt that the Freeman used their robes over their
14:34
steel suits to shape shift a bit, desert to shift their,
14:39
their shapes shift like sand in the desert and it gave them a
14:45
more romantic quality than just a lot of steel suits running
14:49
around. It gave movement in the wind and
14:53
when they climbed and, and so the cloak became kind of a
14:57
signature in Part 1, but I expanded on it in Part 2.
15:02
And the top left picture of him, you're right, he has almost a
15:08
but he's also majestic as he's taking on the role of a leader.
15:13
He becomes from a boy, you know, in a almost superhero suit, the
15:19
steel suit, he transitions into a man with some gravity in those
15:27
capes and cloaks and hoods and he looks like a leader.
15:31
You know, if you if you go back to I based a lot of this on
15:37
ancient warriors like the Templars.
15:40
And they were robes over their armor, and it gave them such
15:45
majesty and such weight and depth.
15:49
And I wanted that for Timothy. And also it makes him more
15:53
powerful. His whole shape changes.
15:56
It it was very subtle, but just like those that the small
16:00
alterations to a shape just really made this really brand
16:02
new kind of fearsome leader. But you could still see, you
16:06
know, Paul in there somewhere. I guess that's what I want to
16:09
do. I wanted to give him a
16:10
leadership quality by adding, you know, girth to him 'cause
16:14
he's quite slender. And when we first meet him, he's
16:18
boyish. And by the end of June 2, he's a
16:21
man. Yeah.
16:24
What are the things I loved in the second film were the crowd
16:29
scenes specifically? There is a lot of large crowd
16:33
scenes in the realm of the Southern Fremen.
16:35
Your level of detail just does not decrease despite adding so
16:40
many more characters. How did you make the these
16:44
scenes possible? Well, I had a brilliant,
16:48
brilliant textile collaborator on both, both dunes.
16:54
But on the second one he really outdid himself.
16:57
His name is Matt, he's American, but he lives in London, in
17:02
England and he's absolutely brilliant.
17:05
And he, we had to, we went to Italy for a lot of our fabrics
17:11
so that they, they're just so wonderful, hand woven and
17:16
beautifully textured linens and cottons and natural fabrics.
17:21
And I thought that they would use natural fabrics.
17:25
Natural fabrics have a a wonderful way of wrinkling that
17:29
unnatural fabrics don't. And.
17:32
I thought that they would. It would give them a beautiful
17:35
organic feeling by using all these fabrics, but I knew I to
17:41
give any kind of depth of field for these big crowd scenes.
17:44
That had to be many colors, but I I chose a rather narrow
17:50
palette with matte and we died. You should have seen.
17:53
It was so beautiful at in Budapest, at Arrigo, we'd have
18:00
racks, I mean lines and lines and lines of this fabric being
18:04
dyed in different subtly different colors and all hanging
18:08
and blowing in the wind. And it was like some magical
18:12
planet in itself. Then he would print it all.
18:15
He developed many prints, a lot of them with Jacobsa, the
18:20
language of the framing, the writing, and would print the
18:23
fabrics or he would come up with, we would work on from the
18:28
book the Orientalist. There was a lot of, you know,
18:31
Arabic writing and from all the different tribes, they all had
18:35
their own language and their own alphabets.
18:38
And he would create incredible designs.
18:41
And then after everything was dyed, there'd be an acre of
18:45
young Hungarian artists from art schools all hands silk
18:50
screening. All the fabrics into different
18:53
designs are all printed. I I told Mary Parent that they
18:59
should do a Dune home collection.
19:02
Because they're. Just so beautiful the designs he
19:07
came up with and you see him sometimes close up on, on Lady
19:12
Jessica. You know, when you, when you get
19:14
close up on some of the people, you see these designs and
19:17
they're just thrilling. He's he's a genius.
19:20
Well, Speaking of Lady Jessica, we got to talk about Lady
19:23
Jessica as in Part 2, she becomes the Reverend Mother
19:28
after a long, healthy drink of the Water of Life.
19:31
And her transition is anything less than subtle.
19:36
She goes from Paul's bomb to, you know, the Reverend Mother
19:41
and her costumes. Her costumes have always been
19:44
extravagant, but they definitely make a transition in Part 2.
19:48
So I was curious if you could tell us a little bit about that
19:50
character arc we see play out in Part 2?
19:54
Well, you kind of just described it.
19:56
I mean she's a mom at 1st and but never a humble mom her her.
20:03
Quite harsh in in Part 1, she's the Duke of Trade's, you know,
20:10
wife, but definitely his consort.
20:13
And she's quite rich and wealthy and then moves to the desert.
20:18
And so she Dons a steel suit and some desert robes to navigate
20:23
the sands. And when she gets to the siege
20:27
and drinks the water of life, then she you see a transition of
20:32
her from something more worldly to almost otherworldly.
20:38
And I wanted her to be almost a little ghost like.
20:43
And yet if you look at this, it looks like a lot of religious
20:47
paintings. The the bottom left one was
20:51
inspired of course, by Giotto and the virtues and the vices of
20:57
Giotto and Padua and then the one where she's headed for the
21:04
her seat on the on the sandworm for travelling to the South.
21:09
She's again almost biblical. You know, you think she'd be on
21:13
the road with Moses. When she finally lands and she
21:19
becomes the head Reverend Mother, she gets quite ornate
21:24
and very plush again. And that costume is very, very
21:29
ornate and very luxurious. No longer is she in the, you
21:34
know, the humble cottons and linens of the siege.
21:40
I love that. Also talking about someone who
21:43
has a lot of luxury. Princess of Ruling, played by
21:47
wonderful Florence Pugh. Yeah, she's fabulous to work
21:51
with and she's a Princess, you know, she had to be all about
21:55
being the daughter of the emperor so but still of been a
21:58
Jesuit. So I had to keep some elements
22:01
of been a Jesuit Ness on her. Like her headdress in the bottom
22:07
is a second generation of the beaded veil that Mother Mohayam
22:13
wears, and that was definitely taken from medieval paintings.
22:18
And her medal was taken from medieval armor and I just
22:24
feminized it. We love this last piece, it has
22:29
so much feeling in it and it definitely like she's there to
22:34
fight beside her father, but also like it's so delicate at
22:39
the same time. What kind of balance were you
22:42
trying to get with this piece? Guess what you described?
22:46
I wanted to keep her beautiful and feminine and show her her
22:51
body and her femininity, but I wanted to her to be a warrior
22:56
Princess. I also wanted to keep that
23:00
medieval feeling, you know, of medieval going as a warrior
23:05
Princess. But I also wanted to continue
23:09
with the whole nun like feeling that I got from the tarot cards,
23:14
the Marseille tarot, by keeping this certain shape of a nun's
23:20
headdress for her throughout to remind people that though she's
23:24
a warrior Princess, she's been a Jesuit.
23:27
Then moving on to the Harkins, regarding their overall
23:33
aesthetic, we have seen your previous interviews where you
23:37
talk about the the goth approach, maybe a little vampire
23:41
and insect like. You also have used some
23:45
interesting materials in that approach.
23:48
Please tell us everything because I love how much more we
23:51
get to see of them in Part 2. Well, I have an interesting
23:56
story. You'll probably love Part 2.
24:00
Gady Prime was shot very much in infrared photography.
24:05
Little did I know that depending on the fabric or the material
24:12
that you use to make these costumes, some though they're
24:16
black to the eye. When they're shot with infrared,
24:19
they become white. I.
24:24
Had costume like for Fade Rato that looked like a checkerboard
24:28
and had to go back and remake them all and camera test with
24:33
Greg. Every single fabrication I used
24:37
and for for everybody in that gladiator scene.
24:42
It was quite a, a learning curve for me.
24:45
I had no idea. But they're they're everything.
24:49
They're like a 1/3 Reich rally. They're like the evilest
24:55
iteration of the Nazis. They're they're gothic, they're
24:59
dark, they're evil. And it's so hard to portray
25:04
without getting cliche. And you have to put a lot of
25:08
thought and give the different characters really different
25:11
looks to separate them in all their different levels of evil.
25:20
They're very ghoul like a vampire like.
25:22
But I actually want to return to the gladiator scene for a
25:26
moment. It's one of my favorite scenes
25:28
of any film. I think in the past couple of
25:31
years. I'm a big fan.
25:33
The moment where you see the Bennett Jesuits kind of walk out
25:36
and they're, you know, you could see a little, the essence of
25:39
color just sort of fade away. I mean, just take me back to the
25:43
moment where you put your first costume on camera and it was,
25:47
you know, it was white or what not.
25:48
It did. It wasn't what you thought it
25:50
would originally be. I'm just really fascinated with
25:53
this scene and how it came together.
25:55
It's quite the feat. First of all, it was a delight
25:58
dressing Austin. He's he's wonderful to work with
26:02
and has a perfect body and he just I had a wonderful,
26:07
wonderful effects costume maker making his every, you know,
26:12
cutting and making every piece of his costume for that scene
26:17
and he was just wonderful. All of David Bethels team are
26:23
incredible, incredible effects costume fabricators, but this
26:29
one guy he had working I think his name's it's John Negrosi and
26:33
I think he created this whole costume with me for for fade
26:39
route and I think it was so beautiful.
26:41
We did have to remake pieces of it that went white when camera
26:45
tested it. It has a definite gladiator
26:48
feeling, but it's and Roman, you know, we used a lot of Roman
26:53
research, but it also also has an incredible Gothic feeling and
27:00
a very modern feeling. So yeah, a lot went into that.
27:05
When I saw the picadores, I, I think I was with another costume
27:09
designer and we were both like, what is that?
27:12
It is so shockingly terrifying but so interesting and I could
27:16
see how it came from a, you know, stick figure illustration
27:20
as well. Adds to the creepiness.
27:23
And I also want to dive into fade Roth a little bit.
27:26
You know, he's, he's obviously insane, but the fans love him.
27:31
Actually probably way more than we should.
27:34
Looking at your, at your research.
27:36
You know, you've obviously there's the Harkinen family
27:39
resemblance and a lot of the Harkins could, you know, look
27:43
the same physically, but Fade Rotha has his own style.
27:47
And I've seen in the past they've kind of addressed the HR
27:50
Geiger inspiration a little bit, which I'm a big Geiger fan as
27:54
well. So I'm curious to dive into that
27:56
individual style that makes Fade Rotha a little bit more of a
28:00
rock star to me, honestly, compared to the others.
28:04
Well I did that on purpose, I just cause of the rock stars
28:07
that have played that character. Well, yeah, that too.
28:11
Dagger was gonna do the Jodorovsky and and staying, you
28:15
know, did the David Lynch. You know, I it was interesting
28:19
that Elvis got this part. It's so true, I didn't think of
28:24
that. A friend of mine used to make.
28:27
She's British, actually used to make all of Mick Jagger's
28:32
clothes. And when I go, she lived in New
28:35
York and her name was Marcia Trinder and her dad was the
28:39
Mayor of London, but she expatriated to New York and she
28:44
would she lived in the Dakota. No, she lived in the the one
28:48
next door to the Dakota and Mick Jagger would come over for
28:51
fittings when I was visiting her.
28:53
She was an old friend of mine. And when he would walk in the
28:57
room, I would, you know, he had such a swagger.
29:01
I thought, wow, how much fun to dress him.
29:03
And when when Austin walked into the room, he walked just like
29:07
Mick Jagger. This is your chance.
29:11
Okay, this guy a rock star, so I'm glad you felt that I
29:15
accomplished that. Yeah, it's it's so fun.
29:18
You could just tell that, you know, I mean, he's even
29:21
surrounded ball the other ladies as well, though he's you know, I
29:25
wouldn't say he's much of A lady charmer either, but you know,
29:29
you could see that Rockstar quality in the psychopath.
29:33
Definitely at it. And so that definitely informed
29:38
his costume. I want to take a second and talk
29:41
about one of my favorite characters from the book, Lady
29:44
Fenrig. I was so excited to see her in
29:47
Part 2. Despite her very brief
29:50
appearance, she makes such a huge visual impact.
29:54
So how did you approach her character and what were your
29:58
inspirations, knowing she had such a limited time on screen
30:02
but such a big role? And made the shots count.
30:07
First of all, I wanted to keep her Benede Jesuit because she's
30:11
there. She's their pawn, right?
30:15
And so I wanted to keep that shape.
30:17
But she's Lady Thin Rings, so she needed to be luxurious.
30:21
And so I started some something. And also Leia is French and I
30:27
wanted to keep some kind of haute couture feeling about her.
30:32
And so I looked to Balenciaga in the 30s and the 40s and came up
30:38
with these all her looks. They're very Balenciaga
30:42
inspired. Yeah, I could see that.
30:46
She's just very charming and I just feel like she takes that
30:49
moment and runs with. It I tell.
30:52
You Balenciaga's inspirations were from Goya and a lot of the
30:57
Mahas. So, so that's why she has that
31:02
almost religious feeling. But yet she's cunning, you know,
31:07
and I wanted to make her like a dark Goya esque.
31:11
I used Goya and Balenciaga for her, but goy.
31:14
But Balenciaga's designs were very much influenced by Goya.
31:21
That's incredible, I love that. Another huge part of Dune is how
31:29
technology is integrated into their clothing.
31:32
With the Shields, the still suits the hover tech.
31:37
How did you represent this and what other departments did you
31:40
have to collaborate with to get these so wonderfully perfect and
31:46
how they're represented? That's engineering.
31:49
The steel suit was all left to me and as I said, I had a a
31:55
wonderful sketch artist, Keith Christensen, who did the first
32:00
drawing and he based it as much as he could on us.
32:05
Talking about Frank Herberts descriptions of the steel suit,
32:09
like, oh, he said that, you know, the pipes were, you know,
32:12
that the, the boots had a pumping action as you walked or
32:17
walked through the dunes and your heel lifted and, and landed
32:22
in the heel of the boot that it created a pumping action which
32:27
automated the circulation of the fluids through the steel suit.
32:32
So we knew that there had to be tubing and piping and it had to
32:36
all look like a distillery. And some of those elements had
32:40
to be on the outside so that you could see as it wouldn't matter.
32:45
It would if it was all underneath, you wouldn't see
32:48
that it was this working distillery that absorbed all
32:52
your, your sweat, your urine, whatever, however your bodily
32:55
fluids were your saliva and reconstituted it into drinking
33:01
water by this magical Fremen technology that they've been
33:05
using for, you know, hundreds of years to survive in the desert.
33:10
So all that had to show. And so that was all left to us
33:15
that those were all created in our workshop.
33:18
The flying things, that was probably a CGI element, but
33:26
those costumes had to look like they had, you know, sensors on
33:31
them and things, suspensors that would lift the body up.
33:35
So part of that was props and part of it was me depending
33:40
whether where, how it was attached to the costume.
33:44
But it was definitely a merger between the art department and
33:48
costumes, all of these technical costumes.
33:52
It, it's incredible the way that it, it just represents so much
33:56
innovative technology, even though it's a costume.
33:59
But we, we received a few audience questions actually, and
34:02
I thought they're actually quite interesting.
34:05
Alex McFarlane on Instagram asked, you know, you've worked
34:09
on a lot of different dramas and epic films.
34:12
Is your approach different when it comes to sci-fi versus a
34:16
drama or fantasy? Or do you feel like it's a lot
34:19
of the same in different worlds? It's a different mindset,
34:23
definitely, but my process is the same.
34:27
I try to be really character oriented.
34:30
I try to read the script six or seven times before I ever start
34:34
and really get to know the character.
34:36
And my husband said it doesn't matter.
34:38
Once he said I I said I'm a fashion designer, how am I going
34:42
to do Henry and June? And he said you're an art
34:46
historian, you're not just a fashion designer.
34:48
I said I'm a thoroughly modern Millie.
34:51
And he said, listen, he said, you have good taste.
34:54
And he said, he said what you do is you just find the character
34:59
and then take them shopping in whatever period that you're
35:03
doing, and they'll pick their own clothes.
35:06
And I've always lived by that. Yeah, I'm sure every young
35:10
costume designer listening to this just wrote that down in
35:13
their journals so hard. It's such a great quote.
35:17
And finally, Robert JCPO on Instagram asked what was one of
35:21
the more satisfying moments of designing the Dune films.
35:24
Was there a moment where maybe you saw something and you're
35:26
like, wow, that was cool, we did that?
35:29
I think it's when all the Benedgesu, ancient Benedgesu's
35:34
lined up for the queen Fade Rauta and they, I just love
35:40
those costumes so much. They were like mummy cases, you
35:43
know, I just, I just love those costumes.
35:45
And when they all lined up alongside of Lady Jessica behind
35:52
that fight, I went, OK, that was worth all that work.
35:57
Yeah, it's really beautiful. And you know, you talked a
36:00
little bit about that too, that you were very inspired by nuns.
36:04
What? Not, right?
36:05
I believe you have a history with nuns as well.
36:07
So that kind of added to it. I went to Catholic schools.
36:10
So you know, you start, you really watch them, what they do
36:14
with their hands, how they hide their hands in their robes.
36:18
You know how they move when they walk.
36:20
They were ghost like to me as a, as a kid, you know, little kid
36:23
in Catholic school. And I, I was fascinated by them,
36:27
by everything that their clothes were hiding, you know, did they
36:32
have hair under their veils? And I know other designers.
36:37
Yoshi Yamamoto was very inspired by nuns and in the 80s, But I
36:43
and I also, I used a lot of religious paintings and definite
36:50
different nuns. I've always loved the French
36:53
nuns and the they're different, you know, different countries.
36:57
And then there's also that crossover into Middle Eastern
37:01
dress, which is very similar. It was something about it was
37:05
fascinating to to separate them all but use similar
37:10
inspirations. It's, it's like you said, it's
37:13
really beautiful to see it all come together.
37:15
And you know, now that we've seen Dune one by Part 1 and part
37:19
two, I'm very hoping that we get to see you do another one in the
37:24
future. I'll cross my fingers.
37:26
What has this entire journey meant to you, Jacqueline?
37:29
Well, it's taught me that I can do sci-fi.
37:31
Oh. I think that's that's an
37:33
understatement, but whatever. No, it's been a wonderful,
37:38
wonderful journey and just getting to know Jenny and Tanya
37:43
and Mary Parent. And you know, I've worked with
37:47
Greg before, but it was such a wonderful team and a great group
37:52
of actors, and it was just a marvelous experience that I'm
37:58
going to always have with me, but also looking forward to
38:01
doing doing 3. So I hope it's as gratifying for
38:06
you all as one and two were. I imagine it will.
38:10
Be on the edge of our seats. Yeah, that's I can't even tell
38:14
you. Costume designer Jacqueline W
38:17
thank you so much for doing this.
38:18
We've been so excited to talk with you, and your work is
38:22
beautiful. Thank you so much for joining
38:24
us. This has been such a joy.
38:25
Thank you guys. Are all great and have a nice
38:28
weekend. I feel like our questions got
38:35
answered and then. Some That was so much fun.
38:38
Actually, we we had even more questions, but we had to cut
38:42
some for time, honestly, but I think we got most of it in
38:45
there. I think Jacqueline is just so
38:48
incredible. I She's the sweetest and just
38:51
such AI love her. Her knack for research, you
38:55
could tell that she really loves the process of understanding all
38:58
the cultures and. And really has enthusiasm for
39:01
it. It's just so excited.
39:04
Like she said at the beginning, like Denevonov was like, yeah,
39:07
this might be a futuristic film, but this is something that's
39:09
really grounded in reality and yes, build this world.
39:13
And it's not looking at the blade runners and trons and
39:17
whatnot. This is very much like looking
39:19
back to the past to understand, you know, what motivates this
39:23
future. And I just think that's quite
39:25
beautiful. Absolutely.
39:28
Now, Spencer, earlier this year when we talked about Doom Part
39:33
2, we lacked a stitch rating system.
39:39
Oh, it had not been created yet. What is your stitch rating of
39:45
Doom Part 2? I I, I I wholeheartedly stand
39:54
behind giving this a full 5 stitch rating on my letterbox
39:59
account. This is also one of the only
40:01
films I've given five stars to, so I have to do what's right and
40:07
stand by that. I think it's a near perfect
40:10
film. I think it's great.
40:12
I think they took this really beautiful story.
40:15
I think they did it right, especially seeing like how the
40:17
story's been represented in the past.
40:20
Trying to combine things into one film absolutely does not
40:23
work. The book is huge and just, you
40:27
know, seeing how they were able to take that first film, which I
40:30
also think is a near perfect film and really grow upon it and
40:34
show all these different cultures.
40:36
And, you know, now we get to go to Getty Prime and check out how
40:40
the Harkins live, which is hashtag not good.
40:44
The gladiator scene, which I think is just like such a feat
40:47
of modern technology and cinema and seeing that I don't, I don't
40:51
even know what you're calling them blanking up, but like that
40:54
really special IMAX screen at Universal Studios with the oh,
40:57
the 70mm film, which was incredible.
41:01
Blown away. I saw of Tracy Field and we were
41:03
both like, we walked up our eyes so huge.
41:07
It has so much to it. That's just so truly epic.
41:10
And I don't know that as many films really hit that level of
41:14
epicness than Dune Part 2. And the costumes are perfect.
41:19
No notes. Yeah, I honestly I have to
41:24
concur. Give it a 5 stitch rating.
41:28
It really is perfect. And like you said, it just does
41:31
such justice to the book, especially this second one.
41:37
The first one, there were definitely things from the book
41:41
that I wish they'd left in or like maybe just changed how they
41:44
approached it a little bit. But Part 2 where they made some
41:51
even bigger changes, like instead of doing a time jump,
41:55
they just compress the timeline. Yeah, the changes they made to
41:58
Cheney's character just really worked perfectly.
42:04
And it was just visually stunning, like you said, a feat
42:09
of modern technology and modern cinema and Jacqueline W
42:16
costumes, just scene to scene brought it to life and really
42:22
visually helped tell that story and keep it together.
42:26
So yeah, five out of five stitches.
42:28
Yeah. So we don't often get to go back
42:35
to a movie we've already reviewed on this show.
42:39
So I have to ask you, what is your one costume to rule them
42:43
all? All right, let's hit it.
42:48
The one costume to rule them all.
42:56
I don't know. I'm still a Fade Rotha fan.
43:00
I don't know that the gladiator costume is specifically, but the
43:05
whole idea that there's a lingering Mick Jagger
43:08
inspiration and also being played by Elvis.
43:13
I I can't quit the Rockstar. That's still my favorite.
43:17
MY1 costume ruled them all because it's just that much
43:19
cooler. If anything, she just made me
43:21
double down on my choice from April.
43:24
I love that. I didn't even think of the fact
43:28
that, like, Elvis is playing Peter Rotha, you know, 'cause We
43:34
Sting actually played this character in the 84 film.
43:37
So it's just, it's a perfect, perfect little transition.
43:42
What about you? You last time you picked Paula
43:46
Tradies. Well quote UN quote Darth Vader
43:49
look. Honestly like I still really
43:52
love it, but I think I now have to go with Lady Fenring.
43:58
We have a change. I do love her as a character,
44:02
the book, the movie, like even like she's about she's in the
44:07
book the same amount she is in. The.
44:10
Movie like talk about a perfect adaptation of a character.
44:15
It's her and her talking about the inspiration behind it and
44:21
even just more like the Benny Jesuit and how she really
44:25
carries like from like the the ancient, like Benny Jesuits.
44:29
Like they're like kind of nun like appearance and kind of like
44:34
with the older Benny Jesuits, you're like, OK, this is like
44:36
the uniform right of a Benny Jesuit.
44:40
And then how she translates that through all of the younger Benny
44:45
Jesuit characters, especially with Lady Fenring, I think it's
44:49
brilliant. So I gotta change it.
44:52
Gotta change it. So I honestly, I felt that under
44:56
the surface too. I was like, that's such a good
44:58
one. This was such a fun episode.
45:01
And if anyone else would like to let us know what they thought
45:04
about it, please e-mail us at theartofcostume@gmail.com.
45:08
And of course, subscribe to us on YouTube where we post these
45:11
episodes of all of our images as well.
45:14
Kind of an update on that, Elizabeth.
45:17
We kind of teased some breaking news earlier.
45:19
This might be a good time to share with the audience.
45:23
So. Something that will impact this
45:25
podcast going forward, starting in the new year.
45:29
It will especially our YouTube channel because I am moving back
45:34
to the West Coast so me and Spencer will now be doing
45:42
podcast episodes in person and we will also be creating the
45:49
official Art of Costume studio. So that's something look forward
45:55
to. Something else to look forward
45:57
to is our next episode. We are going to be talking about
46:00
Gladiator 2 with two special guests who were also on the
46:04
podcast last year, costume designer Jante Yates and
46:07
military costume designer David Crossman.
46:10
It's not out yet at the as this episode comes out, but I have
46:14
seen the film and Elizabeth, let me tell you, it is spectacular.
46:18
It's so much fun. I can't.
46:20
Wait, Pascal is? My favorite?
46:22
Yeah, he's great, and so is Paul Mezcal.
46:25
Literally everyone's great in this film.
46:27
It's so much fun. The costumes are sick.
46:31
Oh, I can't wait. I cannot wait.
46:34
This has been so much fun. I can't wait to talk about
46:38
Gladiator and I can't wait for you to be out here.
46:41
It's we have some good stuff coming up for the rest of this
46:43
year and going into 2025 we're not going anywhere so.
46:48
Everybody keep your ears open for what's next after the
46:52
costume. Oh yeah.