Latest / The Sexology Lab / Reversing Pain, Dryness, & ED Without Medication | Dr. Soum Rakshit | Episode 11

Transcript

Reversing Pain, Dryness, & ED Without Medication | Dr. Soum Rakshit | Episode 11 · The Sexology Lab

0:00
The idea came from 2 parts. 1 was the medical side which is
0:04
how can we use vibration and the other side was pleasure and
0:08
Wellness. How can we bring the mystery
0:09
back in the bedroom, especially after something major happens
0:13
and pain, dryness, etcetera take over instead of pleasure?
0:18
What if the future of sexual health isn't just therapy or
0:21
medication, but technology designed to actually solve a
0:25
problem? Today in the lab, we're joined
0:28
by Doctor Salm Rakshi, biomedical engineer, founder and
0:32
CEO of Mystery Vibe at MV Health, who is leading the
0:36
charge in medical grade sex tech innovation.
0:39
In this conversation, we break down the science behind
0:42
vibration therapy, how these devices are developed and
0:46
validated, and why accessibility, not just
0:50
innovation, is often the biggest barrier in this space.
0:54
If you're curious about where health, medicine and technology
0:59
are heading next, this episode is for you.
1:02
Welcome to Sexology Lab. Each week we speak with the most
1:05
compelling minds in modern sexology to ask the questions
1:09
shaping the future of desire, connection, and human Wellness.
1:14
Let's dive in. Welcome some.
1:16
Thank you so much for having me, Michelle, having me back.
1:19
All right. Well, I want to jump right in
1:20
with a question for you. So what problem in sexual health
1:25
were you trying to solve when you started Mystery Vibe and MV
1:28
Health? Kind of.
1:29
In the name. So the idea was can we address
1:33
the lack of sexual health or the lack of solutions to sexual
1:37
health post major life events, childbirth or surgery, post
1:41
cancer recovery or aging, prostate related issues,
1:45
menopause related issues. We realize that there's
1:47
obviously lots of urology, gynecological issues, but they
1:51
specifically affect us after major life events.
1:53
And the idea came from 2 parts. 1 was the medical side, which is
1:58
how can we use vibration? And the other side was pleasure
2:01
and Wellness. How can we bring the mystery
2:04
back in the bedroom, especially after something major happens
2:07
and pain, dryness, etcetera take over instead of pleasure?
2:12
Yeah. Oh, I love that.
2:14
Now I want to hear your 32nd origin story.
2:17
So what made you decide that you wanted to specialize in this
2:21
space? That's actually quite
2:23
straightforward. So when we started, we went to
2:26
area called of NHS clinical entrepreneurship program and the
2:29
professor who was in charge of that, this is in London, he
2:32
introduced me to his professor and his professor happened to
2:36
research on vibration for 30 years and in the area of Euro
2:40
guidance. So we were looking for things
2:43
where we can add value as biomedical engineers.
2:46
And when we realized that how big an issue urology and
2:50
gynecology was in terms of unmet need, in terms of lack of
2:54
solutions, in terms of lack of discussion, education was so
2:58
obvious that if we could do something, it would be
3:00
impactful. And that's how we started.
3:02
Now, is there a trend happening right now in the sex tech space
3:06
that really excites you? What?
3:07
Excites me most is tailored healthcare with hormones so for
3:12
example, we have continuous glucose monitoring and then
3:15
being able to adapt the medication for someone with
3:19
diabetes, for example, tailored to them.
3:22
So the personalized medicine that would have so much bigger
3:25
impact if it was personalized to your hormone levels even on a
3:29
daily basis, you know, because it changes and this applies
3:33
specifically to Women's Health, but equally to men's health.
3:35
And I think it's not far in terms of the tech before we have
3:39
continuous hormone monitoring, easy accessible, you know, very
3:43
cheap and very, very simple so that things like hormone
3:47
supplements can be way more effective if it's tailored to
3:51
that individual on that day than than it is now.
3:55
That's kind of the big next step, which is so exciting.
3:59
It has so many implications, libido, arousal, orgasm,
4:03
wetness, general health and well-being mood.
4:06
It's just so much that we can improve with the right hormones.
4:11
Oh yeah, that is exciting. I can't wait to see what
4:14
develops in that space. All right, now you come from an
4:17
engineering background, but you work deeply in sexual medicine.
4:21
So how did those two worlds come together for you?
4:25
I still feel like I'm an engineer.
4:26
I always, you know, look at it as a innovation where we can
4:31
bring in stuff like tech that works elsewhere.
4:35
For example, a watch which has magnetic strap.
4:39
Yeah, is a very well established tech.
4:41
You know, it's been around for maybe 5 plus years.
4:45
And if we can use that to create compression or spinal surgery to
4:50
replace the bandages, that makes it so much easier for the
4:54
patient to look after their recovery, waterproof, reusable,
4:59
compared to having to change bandages.
5:01
So there's a very simple use case of engineering that already
5:05
exists and it's very useful elsewhere.
5:07
And bringing it to sexual health, the actual medical side
5:10
of it obviously is very complicated penal surgery, and
5:13
that's something we would never understand the details of.
5:17
But my goal is always to get the right requirements from the
5:23
clinicians and the patients so we can build what is fit for
5:26
purpose and delivers efficacy. And very much adjacent to the
5:31
healthcare specialists, there was still a very much an
5:33
engineer, but focusing on delivering access to solutions
5:37
which are fit for purpose. Yes, that's a really good
5:40
example of finding a problem and solving it.
5:42
You and I have talked before about sex tech and you know
5:45
where people might start if they're interested in this
5:47
field. And you told me before, find a
5:50
problem and find a solution for it.
5:52
And that's a really good example, Yeah.
5:54
And you know, on the problems, that is so easy if you go and
5:57
meet people, patients, meet doctors, meet hospitals, meet
6:00
clinics, and they'll tell you there's so many issues that need
6:03
solving, especially in sexual health.
6:05
So we don't even have to look far.
6:07
We just talk to enough people and we get way more things that
6:11
we need to solve than we can. So I think the lack of problems
6:14
is luckily is not a problem in this space.
6:17
There's enough things to solve. It's more building their team,
6:21
raising enough capital because when it comes to medical
6:23
devices, there isn't really any way of doing that without some
6:27
form of investment with us, a grant, whether it's research
6:30
funding or equity loans, etc. It's developing hardware to a
6:35
medical standard and getting it regulated before a single
6:38
patient can use it. And that's not something unlike
6:41
in software where you could literally code it yourself and
6:43
release it and test. Even with medical device
6:46
hardware, it's at least I would say two to three years from the
6:50
day you start to the day someone can test it if all goes well.
6:54
So I'm curious when you're developing products, how do you
6:57
you decide what belongs under Mystery Vibe, which is your
7:00
consumer brand versus MV Health, which is more of the clinical
7:04
side of things, so? We have kept them identical and
7:07
the reason is we want all the research and innovation that we
7:11
do in healthcare to be easily accessible to people whether or
7:15
not they have a healthcare condition.
7:17
So for example, we have a pelvic pain device or called Crescendo
7:20
which was designed by pelvic for therapist specifically for
7:23
maternal care in a post childbirth.
7:26
But somebody we might purchase it purely for improving their
7:30
arousal, orgasm, etcetera. And we even did studies on that
7:33
because we want people to use them however they find it useful
7:38
rather than just for specific conditions.
7:40
Where the conditions matter is if it is reimbursed.
7:45
So let's say if a veteran goes to one of the VA centers with
7:49
pelvic pain, they can get Crescendo fully reimbursed.
7:53
But in that case it needs to be for a specific thing.
7:56
But if somebody purchasing it for themselves, it could be for
7:59
a whole host of things, which is why we do so many studies, We
8:02
publish so many papers, whether it's on arousal disorder, orgasm
8:06
disorder and orgasmia, penetration, pain, pain.
8:09
It's often different doctors wanting to study it for
8:12
different conditions, but equally different users and
8:15
patients trying it for different things.
8:17
And it just makes it so much more accessible if people can
8:20
be. Reimbursed.
8:21
Yeah, 100%. So the accessibility to us is
8:24
the key, because innovation is actually not the hard bit.
8:27
The making good hardware is a matter of doing it slowly,
8:31
carefully, with enough feedback. But what is much harder is
8:35
making one, making people aware that these conditions are there,
8:39
which seems obvious to us. People would know about pelvic
8:42
pain after childbirth, but the reality is that education
8:46
doesn't really exist at mass level.
8:48
So within our world of sexual health and Wellness, we talk
8:51
about these all the time. So we forget that the normal
8:55
public, if you tell them, hey, you know, you have pelvic pain
8:58
may not even know what pelvic is.
9:00
And that's the big talent in sexual health is 1.
9:03
Educating people that they might have some issue that needs
9:07
looking at to getting them to see a specialist and also
9:10
finding a specialist is hard in a primary care physician may not
9:13
be trained in it. And then once they have it, then
9:16
getting the right amount of care.
9:18
So for example, a PT could be listed three times a week for 12
9:21
weeks. That's a lot of sessions that
9:22
they need to commit time for. Or you know, if it's a device,
9:26
having knowledge that that device solution exists and
9:29
having the right reimbursement to get it if they want to get
9:32
it. It's a very big journey in terms
9:34
of accessing sexual health solutions.
9:36
And So what are you doing right now at MV Health to help get the
9:40
word out to people to help them understand and get educated?
9:43
Different things. So a big part of a work is being
9:47
present at every sexual health event like Shaw, like Pelvicon,
9:52
like I Sweets, menopause orgs, AUA, you name it.
9:56
We try to attend everything and not just attend, but actually
10:00
have a booth stand, educate people, whether it's patients,
10:04
doctors, clinicians, PTS, everyone.
10:06
And it's a very time consuming, long term thing and we've been
10:09
doing it for five years. But the more we do it, the more
10:12
we educate people and the more the word of mouth spreads.
10:15
It's one of those things which has to be done face to face in
10:18
person, meeting people. To us that's the fun bit is
10:22
going out and meeting people and sharing and also learning
10:25
through those events. What other problems are out
10:28
there that we need to be solving and making products for us.
10:31
So that's, I would say our biggest part of outreach and
10:34
what I found is very physical, very in person, generally
10:37
research and publishing papers. And that's something we don't do
10:41
ourselves to be completely independent.
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So we look for people researching in these areas,
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support them by providing 2 things.
10:50
One is the products for free. And the second is the patient
10:53
recruitment cost, which isn't much, but it's still a good help
10:57
from their side. But we don't prescribe, you
11:00
know, what the study should be, what the outcomes are in for so
11:03
that it's truly independent. And that's this whole other
11:06
piece of conference and doctors go and present in which then
11:10
creates more awareness not just for our devices, but vibration
11:14
as a whole can be effective in this area of the women's and
11:18
men's health. And that is so important to get
11:21
the credibility out there. Yes, it can be for pleasure and
11:24
that's a great thing. But equally it can be, when done
11:27
medically, very effective for solving problems.
11:30
Absolutely, and by going to these events and speaking to the
11:33
professionals in the field, it has such a huge ripple effect.
11:37
You could talk to 1 physician that can go out and educate
11:40
their colleagues and and educate their patients.
11:43
That's really incredible. Yes, 100%.
11:46
And we've come this far only because of what about because
11:49
our actual aid marketing is miniscule.
11:52
I want to talk to you a little bit about vibration therapy and
11:55
let's science behind it. So at a high level, what does
11:58
the evidence actually show about targeted vibration therapy for
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sexual function? This is actually where we are
12:05
lucky because long before we started, long before our
12:09
professor started researching, there was decades of clinical
12:13
evidence on vibration, which goes back 100 years.
12:16
Vibration, when it started in the 1880s for sexual
12:20
dysfunction, was purely a medical device.
12:23
And even if we look back advertisements for vibrators in
12:27
physical newspapers from 1930s, forties, 50s, it's all listed
12:31
under conditions that it can address.
12:34
It's only later in the 70s that the pleasure aspect came in and
12:39
then it became the big part and became the main part.
12:42
So in modern times, people mainly associate vibrators with
12:45
pleasure. But I would say the 70% of the
12:49
years it's been around, it was for medical.
12:52
So there's a huge wealth of evidence on it.
12:54
And there's new research coming out all the time.
12:56
Like in Cedar Sinai, Doctor Alexandra Dewinskaya does a lot
13:00
of research on vibrators and publishers.
13:02
So she's one of the leaders in this space.
13:04
And even the work we've done with various doctors, now we
13:08
have 23 publications that has happened over the last 10 years.
13:12
So you know, there's always new good work happening, which is
13:16
bringing the concept of vibration back to its core,
13:20
which is it has huge amount of medical benefits and pleasure is
13:23
one of them. And the underlying theory is
13:25
really simple, which is when you vibrate an area, it creates
13:28
fresh oxygenated blood to get there as blood flow mechanism.
13:31
And blood flow then helps with everything else.
13:34
So it helps with erection, it helps with arousal, so it helps
13:36
with pain relief. It's actually not specific to
13:39
urogyne. The same application would be,
13:42
let's say a pteragon, which is a vibrator for back pain.
13:45
The underlying concept is exactly the same.
13:47
It's just different intensity and different frequency.
13:49
But if you apply that vibration on your back, it would do the
13:52
same thing. It would help with pain relief.
13:54
And that makes our job 100 times easier, which is we're not
13:57
trying to prove new science. The science has existed forever.
14:01
All we do is make it very tailored for specific
14:04
conditions. So if it's for prostate, it
14:06
would be a very slim device like a finger that bends that either
14:09
the clinician or the patient can insert very gently and reach the
14:13
prostate and vibrate it. It's not complicated tech.
14:15
So if you're in your 70s, you don't care about apps and
14:18
Bluetooth. You can still use it just by
14:20
pressing a button, turning it on, inserting, reaching the
14:23
prostate carefully, gently, and you know, letting the vibration
14:26
do its job. So that's really where we come
14:29
in with our engineering and not in fundamental science research
14:33
which has already been done in terms of how vibration and
14:36
helps. Yeah, absolutely.
14:37
You're not starting from scratch here, which is nice.
14:40
Yeah, and that makes a massive difference.
14:42
Yeah, definitely. And now why does vibration
14:45
rather than medication matter for some people?
14:48
Often it's actually complementary, but sometimes
14:51
medication is not possible for some people.
14:54
So for example with Viagra, if you have heart conditions EU
14:58
pharmacist might refuse to give you Viagra so that option would
15:01
simply not exist. Or any PD5 inhibitors.
15:05
Then the issue becomes do you either take the risk, I mean
15:08
somehow get the medication without the pharmacist approval
15:11
or you have no solution or you try something else.
15:14
That's where devices as a general category of Med tech is
15:17
so useful. You can't ever get a side effect
15:20
from a hardware. It either works or doesn't work
15:22
and that's it. The beauty of that is also
15:25
hardware is a one time cost and it should last at least, you
15:28
know, 3-4, five years. So there's two big things.
15:30
One is medication may not be valid in the sense that you may
15:34
not qualify for it. And two is even if you do, there
15:38
will be some side effects. So for example, headaches are a
15:41
common side effect of Viagra and people as long as they know it
15:44
and they're OK with it and they manage how much they take, it's
15:47
OK. And it could be a complimentary
15:49
thing. So they might be like, OK, fine,
15:50
I'll take tablets once a week, I'll use the device a couple of
15:54
times a week and then I'll take a so you know, like then you,
15:56
they can complement each other and balance it out.
15:58
So we don't really think of devices as an alternative.
16:01
It's more compliment. And the only time it's an
16:03
alternative is when the medicine option is not available.
16:07
Right. Like if somebody's got like a
16:09
heart condition or something and they just like can't take the
16:11
medicine. It's like, well, there's easy as
16:14
something. And the other thing I would say
16:15
is apart from medicine where devices are really helpful is to
16:19
provide a compliment for therapy.
16:21
So for example, with PT, let's say the ideal number would be at
16:25
least two or three times a week for many, many weeks.
16:27
And neither the PT nor the patient will have that kind of
16:30
time. So what we see happen is the PT
16:33
will do the first session, train them, give them the device, they
16:35
go, go home, they use it three times a week for 12 weeks and
16:38
they come back and then have the final session and they achieve
16:41
the same outcome as if they went three times a week for 12 weeks.
16:44
And in this case, it's not that the device is any better.
16:48
The therapy and the device would deliver the same thing, but it's
16:51
more the access to the solution at home, which is almost
16:54
impossible. Like getting APT to come to your
16:56
house will be so hard, and also having access to APT nearby who
17:00
has time that you can go three times a week for 12 weeks.
17:04
It's very hard. This is where devices can be
17:06
super useful. Yeah.
17:07
And just the logistics, like if you have to take off work or you
17:10
have to secure childcare, you know, there's a million other
17:13
things that. Are involved with that too.
17:15
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17:19
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17:22
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That's Sexology lab.com/guide, and while you're here, make sure
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17:55
right, now, somebody's listening and they're like, OK, I want to
17:57
know what are these products that you guys are talking about
18:00
here? I want to do a little product
18:01
deep dive into each product that MB offers right now.
18:05
So first, I want to talk about the Crescendo 2.
18:07
What is it? Who is it most helpful for
18:09
clinically and what makes it different and unique?
18:12
Crescendo, originally crescendo and then crescendo 2 is our
18:15
oldest product. So that's how we started 12
18:17
years ago. So it has the most papers, most
18:20
evidence, most patients. And it was developed by pelvic
18:22
therapist literally to mimic 2 fingers and that's it.
18:25
Literally, it just does that. It bends like 2 fingers so that
18:29
either the clinician or the patient can bend it to reach the
18:32
exact point on the pelvic floor, on the vaginal wall, wherever
18:35
they need it to then deliver vibration there as little or as
18:39
much as they want. The beauty of it is because it
18:41
can bend whichever way you can insert and reach and see what
18:45
you feel and then bend it, reach another part and see what you
18:47
feel, and you're fully in control of exactly what you
18:50
want. So that's really the fundamental
18:53
design behind Crescendo. And so if we've got sex
18:56
therapist listening to this and they're like, hmm, who would be
18:59
a good person I could recommend this for?
19:01
What would you say? Typically anyone coming in for
19:03
pelvic pain, so that's what this was developed for, not
19:07
incontinence. So we haven't done studies on
19:09
incontinence yet, which is why we don't know whether it will
19:12
help. We have done loads of studies on
19:14
pelvic pain, GPPD, vaginal dryness and orgasmia and a
19:18
typical use case would be post childbirth.
19:21
Yeah, and I'm just curious too. So Essex therapist, would they
19:25
need to provide specific instructions for how to use it?
19:28
Does it come with instructions? Are there videos?
19:31
So it comes with a really beautifully designed
19:33
instruction. It's just A1 pager with two
19:35
sides, and it's designed by PTS, which has instructions written
19:40
in text and on the other side has visuals of how to use it in
19:44
different angles, how to insert it.
19:45
So it's very simple. Yeah, amazing.
19:48
Now it does it have 6 motors? Did I read that right?
19:52
Correct, Yes, yeah. So what does having multiple
19:55
motors change for the user? The main reason for having
19:58
multiple motors is to create the ripple effect.
20:01
So whereas with one motor at the top, we can only deliver
20:05
vibration in one way at one point, whereas what we wanted to
20:09
understand is by having different.
20:12
Vibration throughout. We work with the doctors to
20:15
create specific vibration patterns so that we can study
20:18
what works in various patients. And often what we would do is we
20:23
would set up multiple patterns in the devices so the patients
20:27
can try them and see which one works best for them.
20:30
And the only way we can do that is by having multiple motors
20:33
which creates the ripple effect. Yeah, so interesting.
20:36
All right, I want to talk to you now about the Poco.
20:38
So tell me more about the Poco. How is it different from the
20:41
crescendo, both in design and clinical intent?
20:44
Who is it designed for? Tell me everything.
20:47
Book was literally mini Crescendo.
20:49
It's a very small compact device.
20:51
It was developed for two reasons.
20:53
One is we got a lot of feedback from patients saying do you have
20:56
something smaller for external use?
20:59
Mainly because obviously Crescendo is designed to reach
21:02
as deep as you need to reach the pain points.
21:05
So it's quite a long device and POCO is less than half the size.
21:09
It's really, you know, much, much compact, more compact.
21:12
So that was our main objective. And a good clinical example of
21:15
that is recently NHS here in England published a study with
21:18
POCO A6 year randomized clinical trial, really big study, which
21:23
showed how POCO can be used as external vibrator on the labia
21:28
to help reduce pain of dilation for vaginismus patients as an
21:33
adjunct device to help. So it's a very simple concept
21:37
where we are not changing what is the current setup which is
21:40
used of dilators for dilation in vaginismus.
21:43
But it's a painful process and vibration help.
21:46
And that's what they studied. And then they proved that over
21:48
many years that vibration was very effective and that it
21:51
should be recommended as something that you use when
21:54
you're dilating. Yeah, absolutely.
21:57
And then this also supports natural lubrication, correct?
22:00
Correct. Exactly.
22:01
Which is vibration. Yeah, generally.
22:03
All right, now next I want to talk about the Legato.
22:06
Did I say that? Correct, which goes very nicely
22:09
from the Poco because Poco is something you hold and you
22:11
pinpoint. And Legato was designed actually
22:14
as a result of Tenuto 2, which came out earlier and quickly.
22:18
Just talking about tenuto, Tenuto 2 was designed for Ed to
22:21
help stimulate the penis get blood flow in a whole direction.
22:25
What a lot of the menopause specialists observed is that
22:29
their patients were using Tenuto, the front of it on their
22:32
labia to create arousal and wetness.
22:34
So they then said, can you make a device which adapts to the
22:38
labia that they can use independently and is tailored
22:42
for that rather than something designed for something else.
22:45
So then extending from what I was talking about with Focal,
22:47
applying vibration on the labia is exactly what Legato is, but
22:51
dedicated in that shape of O which bends and adapts to the
22:55
labia and vibrates to create lubrication, create a rozzle and
22:59
have the gap big enough penetrative intercourse with the
23:03
device still on. That's incredible.
23:05
And now? So who would be the ideal first
23:08
for Legato Legato? Is mainly used at menopause plan
23:12
export menopause users because Legato is really for women or
23:16
patients who cannot insert anything.
23:18
That's really the main group of people who would use legato
23:21
simply because if you are able to insert, you can benefit more
23:26
stimulation from something like Crescendo which you can get both
23:29
internal and external stimulation.
23:31
Whereas if you have atrophy, dryness, etc and you don't want
23:34
to insert anything or you would rather not, then legato is super
23:38
useful. Yeah.
23:38
And then also too, though on the flip side, if you're trying to
23:41
use it more just for pleasure, you could use it because it has
23:44
an opening, so it could be used during intercourse.
23:46
Yes, yes, 100% yeah. Which is why it's designed to be
23:50
quite big. Very cool.
23:51
All right. I want to talk about the molto,
23:54
the prostate self-care. It's designed to mimic manual
23:58
prostate techniques used by urologist.
24:00
And so how did you turn that into a device?
24:03
Molto is what we think is the most obvious device that we
24:07
never thought of till urologist told us.
24:09
All we do is insert an index finger to reach the prostate.
24:12
Can you make one which seems so obvious now?
24:15
Which is literally what where we started with two fingers and by
24:18
the reclotherapy, except that, you know, often we have to be
24:21
told can you build it before we do it?
24:24
And that's literally more to it is the thickness and length of
24:27
an index finger. It is very slim and it has one
24:29
motor at the top because it's a very pinpoint, a very simple
24:33
device and it's flexible. If you insert it, it adapts to
24:36
the rectum, reaches the process, then you vibrate it.
24:38
Very, very simple. It's very easy to use.
24:40
And often it's the one with our audience who are older.
24:44
So we wanted to keep it as simple as possible.
24:46
Like if you're in your 70s and you know, my dad is, if it has
24:51
Bluetooth and connectivity and all of that's an app, then he
24:54
gets very confused. We wanted to keep it super easy.
24:56
Say you know you are recovering from surgery and your doctor
25:00
said please do something about your prostate.
25:03
Use this device once a week for 5 minutes.
25:05
Then it will maintain your prostate health or improve your
25:07
prostate health. You know you want it to be super
25:09
easy, just on insert it as slowly as you want, be very
25:14
careful, comfortable, which is the biggest advantage of doing
25:17
it at home, apart from privacy and expression which is
25:20
obviously very important. And so this can be used to
25:22
relieve pain and then can it also be used for pleasure?
25:25
Yes, 100%. And actually there is so much
25:28
anecdotal evidence on the fact that regular prostate
25:31
stimulation leads to improve prostate and lower prostate
25:34
cancer, even though there is no clinical literature because it
25:37
would be really hard to study this because it would need a
25:41
third year study where there will be so many other factors.
25:44
So it's very hard to truly medically understand how much
25:48
correlation there is with regular prostate stimulation and
25:50
a reduction in prostate cancer. But there's a general
25:53
expectation and anecdotal evidence that regular prostate
25:56
stimulation would lead to better prostate health and lower
25:59
prostate cancer. Yeah, yeah.
26:01
And then what about women or people without a prostate?
26:03
Do you have any feedback on women using this particular
26:06
device? Yes, actually the other way
26:08
around. So we found lots of doctors
26:10
using molto vaginally for patients, for PT even.
26:14
And again this is something we had not expected because
26:17
obviously Crescendo was designed specifically for that.
26:20
But a lot of their patients wanted something extremely slim
26:23
and molto is the slimmest product in this whole space.
26:26
A lot of our multi female patients actually use it
26:30
vaginally because they want to insert something very thin.
26:33
I love all the multi use there. Jeffy And you know what I love
26:36
about it, most of all the things we've done is I would say more
26:41
than 50% of the use cases are things we have not thought of.
26:44
Finally, let's talk about the Tenuto 2 and the Tenuto Mini.
26:48
So who are those designed for? What's the technology behind
26:52
that? So Tenuto 2 and Tenuto Mini are
26:53
actually quite a different tech. So all the other stuff we have,
26:57
they have bendable structures inside to bend and adapt and
27:00
deliver the vibrations where needed.
27:02
Tenuto 2 and 10 to Mini. 10 to Mini is just a smaller version
27:04
of 1:50. They have a special composite
27:07
material that we created with stretches and no matter how many
27:11
thousands of times you stretch it, it will always come back to
27:14
its original form and it will constrict the penis.
27:18
So it was the design for erection.
27:19
And what we learned early on was the penis is really complicated
27:24
to develop a product for because the difference between a flaccid
27:26
penis and a erect penis is significant.
27:28
And what will be tight for a erect penis wouldn't even touch
27:32
the flaccid penis. And what would be tight for the
27:34
fasted penis would be too uncomfortable for the erect
27:36
penis. And the tightness really matters
27:38
when it comes to erection and maintain your reaction because
27:40
you want to hold the blood flow. So how do you then develop
27:43
something which doesn't become so constrictive that one is
27:48
uncomfortable and two, it doesn't even allow you to
27:50
ejaculate. So that's why general to two and
27:52
two mini are so different product internally, but the
27:55
underlying science is the same. Deliver vibration at a specific
27:58
point to create blood flow which then helps with erection.
28:01
Yeah. So is that the primary
28:03
difference between like a traditional penis ring and the
28:07
tenuto? Is that customization that you
28:10
instantly get depending on your particular size?
28:13
The biggest challenge was having that gap in the bottom so it's
28:17
not as full circle, but then the bottom bit is open so that you
28:21
can stretch it, and the acid or the semen is unobstructed and
28:27
unconstricted so that no matter what happens, you can ejaculate
28:31
and it won't be uncomfortable or painful.
28:33
But equally it will constrict the top and the side enough so
28:38
that you can maintain your erection.
28:40
That was the most complex engineering challenge we had to
28:43
overcome. And again, for our sex
28:45
therapists that are listening to this.
28:47
So this is a good product for anyone experiencing like
28:50
erectile difficulties, anything like that, right?
28:53
Correct, and the mini version is literally the smaller version
28:57
which actually was even harder. So we made it much later because
29:00
we had to compress everything into a much smaller device.
29:03
And the difference is to noto 2, the original big product has a
29:07
massive perineum simulator which addresses the bred where the
29:12
perineum simulation creates way more arousal than stimulation
29:17
alone. Like for example, we have
29:18
studies post chemotherapy, post prostate removal, prostatectomy
29:22
and being able to get erections back again, which is the most
29:25
severe cases of Ede. But that only works with two,
29:28
which is the big device with the stimulation of the perineum.
29:32
Whereas in the mini is extremely small, extremely compact, soon
29:35
like really nice user experience and it works with what is called
29:39
psychogenic Ed, which is the most common Ed, which is more
29:42
psychological stress related etcetera.
29:45
Compared to very complex post surgery physiological Ed. 1:50
29:50
is perfect for most people and then 1:50 is the bigger device
29:54
which is very useful when you have severe Ed.
29:58
All right, now I want to talk to you a little bit about building
30:00
a science backed sex tech company.
30:03
So what was the hardest part about bringing medical grade
30:07
vibration devices to market? I was sick time.
30:10
The hardest part is if you want to do it properly, you need to
30:14
give yourself 10 years. I think it's nothing happens
30:18
quickly in healthcare. The study I was mentioning about
30:21
vaginism, it took six years. It was supposed to take 3, but
30:24
then it got stuck during COVID. And it's one of those things
30:26
where you can't really rush doctors and hospitals.
30:29
They have things to do, more important things to do.
30:32
You have to do that to be taken seriously, to be an evidence
30:35
based company where the products have been tested on different
30:39
patients, different demographics by different hospitals,
30:41
different doctors in different countries and published in
30:44
respected peer reviewed journals.
30:46
To do all of that, it just is a long journey.
30:49
The hardest bit is you don't know how long will it take and
30:52
you don't know if it would work. We have developed products so
30:55
many times which didn't work and then we had to go back to the
30:57
drawing. And do you get a lot of pushback
31:00
for being in the sexual health space in medicine?
31:03
Do you think there's more stigma attached to it or it's a little
31:06
harder to get things done? Or do you feel like it's fairly
31:09
equal to any other medical device?
31:11
There's two separate things. 1 is there's a big challenge with
31:14
marketing and sexual health. I would say that is more
31:17
corporate restriction issue like Meta.
31:20
The bigger challenge in sexual health is lack of reimbursement.
31:24
So the issue is if you don't have reimbursement codes, then
31:29
it's harder for investors, whether they're corporates or
31:32
VCs or hospitals to invest in innovation which doesn't have a
31:37
clear route to market or the route to market is out of
31:40
pocket. Out of pocket is never
31:41
attractive business model in healthcare.
31:44
If you want to build serious medical hardware and do trials
31:48
and get regulatory approval and get an outpatient, it cost
31:51
money. Are MV Health products available
31:54
globally? We have 5 regulatory approval,
31:56
so we are approved in US, Canada, UK, Europe and Australia
32:01
and now we are working on UAE as the next one to scan.
32:03
A very long, slow process. And have you noticed differences
32:07
in the markets or different challenges depending on which
32:10
country you're selling in? Yes, there's a huge difference
32:14
in terms of how healthcare works.
32:16
So if Healthcare is fully government like in UK it's 90%
32:20
government, in Europe it's majority government, then it is
32:24
much harder to roll it out. And So what are your plans for
32:28
MV? Where else do you want to expand
32:30
to? Current products that we're
32:31
working on are on period pain and massage is a breast pain.
32:35
So the period pain device should be ready soon.
32:37
We think it will be ready by June, but we'll probably come
32:41
across things that are not good enough and then we'll decide
32:44
let's do next June. So hopefully the period pain
32:46
device will be ready by June, which we're really excited about
32:50
because it's our first only consumer healthcare product and
32:53
the difference is very significant.
32:55
If you have, let's say, pelvic pain, it's very unlikely you'll
32:59
go to ACVS or Walgreens. It's right.
33:01
It's not really where you would get a solution beyond a
33:04
painkiller. You would need to go see some
33:06
specialist. So it's very much traditional
33:09
healthcare, whereas with period pain, that's something you're
33:12
very likely to search online or go to a pharmacy.
33:16
And that's true direct to consumer healthcare.
33:18
It's very unlikely that you would go to a doctor unless it's
33:21
something very severe. That is where it gets very
33:24
exciting because we can then deliver sexual healthcare at
33:27
scale in massive through very simple routes like CVS,
33:31
Walgreens, Amazon, anywhere at a very accessible sub $100 price
33:35
point so that everyone can easily purchase it.
33:38
Because once you purchase it, that's it.
33:39
You don't really need to we ever again.
33:42
So now I want to do a little lightning round before we wrap
33:45
up today. All right, So just tell me the
33:48
first thing that comes to mind and I've got a couple questions
33:50
for you. The one misconception about MV
33:54
devices? That they're only for pleasure.
33:56
One clinical outcome you're most proud of.
33:58
Our publication in Nature magazine.
34:01
OK, tell me a little bit more. Last year, one of our studies in
34:05
psychogenic erectile dysfunction using Tinu, too Many got
34:08
accepted and published in Nature magazine, Which we as academics
34:12
always get very excited about it.
34:13
And I guess it's because psychogenic Ed is the biggest
34:16
section of Ed, 40% of Ed, maybe more.
34:20
What is worse is it's growing very rapidly for a whole host of
34:23
societal reasons, more work stress, you know, social media
34:26
news, etcetera. So psychogenic Ed is rapidly
34:29
becoming more and more prevalent, which wouldn't have
34:31
been even say 10 years ago. It's a very significant
34:34
healthcare issue on its own and I think that is why it got
34:38
picked up, because it's significant enough for the mass.
34:41
One engineering breakthrough that you're excited about?
34:44
We have been working on sensors, sensors, little sensors on our
34:48
devices for years now for diagnostics purposes.
34:51
What is so exciting about that is a very simple example is in a
34:54
mole tool, which is the prostate device.
34:56
If we can have the pressure sensor and then let's say the
35:00
patient uses it once a week and after six months captures the
35:03
data. And this is all from a study
35:05
perspective, not you know we see data of the share, but it
35:08
captures the data once a week. It will build a baseline for
35:10
that person because again, this has to be quite personalized to
35:12
the person. If they have enlarged prostate
35:14
over time, they'll be able to say, we are noticing
35:17
consistently that the pressure is higher.
35:19
We think you might have enlarged prostate.
35:21
We would recommend you see someone.
35:23
It's years away, years away. But as a use case, that's
35:26
exciting for us because we could in theory prevent significant
35:30
complications by detecting early.
35:32
All right, my last one for you. What is one thing you wish
35:35
founders in this space understood better?
35:38
Everything takes twice as long and twice as much then even we
35:43
plan after 12 years. And actually the best example is
35:46
Apple who are the leaders in hardware.
35:48
When their first version of anything comes out, it's
35:51
typically terrible. When iPhone came out, the first
35:53
one was inferior in its tech to the Nokia.
35:56
Then when Apple Watch came out the first time, the battery
35:58
lasts like a few hours. Then when the Vision pro, you
36:01
know the goggles came out, you get a headache if you wore it
36:04
more than half an hour. Always that I'm sure by the time
36:08
it's version 5 or 6 is amazing, but even the best hardware
36:11
company in the world struggle with Virgin One.
36:13
Yeah, absolutely. That's so good.
36:15
So good for founders to know if they're expecting this to be an
36:18
instant process. It's not going to happen that
36:20
way. All right, now I want you to
36:23
speak to the next generation. So like our Gen.
36:26
Z's or Gen. alphas, what is one piece of advice you would give
36:31
them about sexual health in general?
36:33
A more human connection and less screen time.
36:36
That's such a good one. All right.
36:38
Now, before we go, you have presented with Sexual Health
36:42
Alliance several times, so I'd love to hear about your
36:45
experience as a presenter and what you think of Sexual Health
36:49
Alliance. So we had this session at the
36:51
end when we had our lunch before leaving.
36:53
And the best thing was what I realized is the energy in the
36:57
room is the most exciting and the most positive of any
37:01
conference I've ever been in. I think that's unique to show.
37:04
And the energy is so different and so happy and so positive and
37:08
so warm. All right.
37:09
Well, that's it. Thank you so much for taking
37:12
time to talk with me today. Some.
37:15
Thank you for having me as always and I can't wait for
37:18
October already. Yes, I know, me too.
37:21
All right, bye everyone. Don't forget to subscribe on
37:25
YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.
37:30
Links are in the description below.