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Transcript

You Can See Everything · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a very special, exciting episode where we are joined by
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: our super producer, Rima. Welcome back, Rima.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Hey, happy to be here. Yes, this is so exciting.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: This is fun.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: So this kind of came, it wasn't planned. This is
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: not a planned episode originally. So originally it was going
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: to be a happy hour about the new film.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: You can see everything.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: So there are going to be spoilers in here about
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: that movie. And I really recommend if you want to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: see it, it's great to go in not knowing what's
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: going to happen. At least for me.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We'll get into Samantha's experience in a second. But at least.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: For me, who likes to be surprised and not know
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: where things are going, I really recommend that. But yes,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I just had mentioned, you know, I kind of want
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: to touch on some of the things in this movie.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And you hopped in and were like, yes, let's do this.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: I literally, I saw this, just like, I just saw
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: on the document that has all our episodes, like, you
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: can see everything. And I immediately sent an email and
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: I was like, yes.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: And then I was like, yes, Rima should come on.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: And then Samantha was like, I guess I'll go see
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: this movie.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I guess I have to go watch this movie.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it unfolded into such a way that I'm like,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: I either have to bow out of the episode completely
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: or I have to go and watch it. And I
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: did go and watch it. I will say again, as
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: Annie said, you should go with it. Even with my
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: anxiety level and as much as I love spoilers, I
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: would say you need to stop listening to this right now.
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: Because even if it's light spoilers, the light.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: Spoilers are too much. And you should go and watch
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: it if you have any interest. For those of you
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: who are not interested at all, sure. Because I had
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: that small interest. This was going to be one of
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: the ones that when it came in streaming, I would
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: probably watch it wherever I could find it for free.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: But then as it kind of escalated, I was like, okay,
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: I must go. And it's exactly how I felt that
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: I would feel happened.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, I'm so excited to get into it.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: I haven't heard either Samantha or Annie's reactions yet.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. I think people probably are very
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: aware of what this movie is about, but it's a
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: documentary following Elizabeth Holmes, of Theranos fame. It's in the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: weeks leading up to her imprisonment. And then the second
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: half is.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Two years later. It felt very Avengers to me, like, oh,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: five years later. And examining... that.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a hard thing to explain. And we're
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: going to talk about some of the reasons why that is.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It is helmed by Nathan Fielder and Lance Oppenheim. And
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I was in the camp that was like, I'm going
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: that weekend when it comes out to the point that
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I had two friends visiting me that weekend. And I,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: in the kindest way possible, was basically like, can we
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: go see this three-hour documentary in this brief window of time.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: That we have together? Understandable.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just, I really, really, really wanted to see it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: And I was fascinated, like some of the reviews coming
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: out about it and some of the conversation coming out
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: about it just really hooked me. And so I convinced
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: one of them to see it. The other one came
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the second time. We went, which was last night. But
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they had a lot of hesitation about the awkwardness, which
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about with Samantha. But I was
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: very excited about this whole thing, and I enjoyed the experience.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: So you were a fan of Nathan Fielder before seeing this?
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I was not super familiar with his work. I know
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: generally what his whole thing is. And I knew I
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: had watched the Hulu show, which we're going to talk about.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I think I was just more interested with how strange
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: it seemed. Like something was captured on film that can't
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: be explained.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I think that's what really brought me in. I was more.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't intrigued by the idea that he, Nathan Fielder,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: had met someone who he could not crack down. so
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: i i thought like that was like a two people
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: coming together like he'd finally met his match or something.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: An immovable object in an unstoppable force.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Yes exactly exactly um so what about.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: You rima and then we'll get.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: To you yes i am a fan Nathan Fielder. So
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I've been checked in for a little for a while.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I watched Nathan for you. I watched the rehearsal. I
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: have not seen The Curse, which is the Emma Stone,
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Nathan Fielder show. I haven't seen that, but I will.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: So when this came out, and also I know of
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Lance Oppenheim, the Not super well, honestly, but I knew
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: of him. So when this came out, I was like,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: same boat. I was like, we need to go see
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: this immediately because I will not be spoiled anything.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I would be so mad.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that that happened because there were
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: so many things that if that was spoiled to me,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I would be mad. So yeah, I was excited for
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: it and I've seen it twice now.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: In a week, I guess. The week it's come out.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: So it's only been out for a week? I haven't
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: just checked out, I'm not.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Going to lie. It came out the 17th, 18th?
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like 10 days ago, as of today's recording.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Well, Samantha has a different experience and also something that
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I found kind of humorous, but also I feel bad about.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: Oh, my gosh.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: That caveat. Wow. Yeah.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, no.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I hope you'll share.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, our listeners know very much. I cannot
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: stand cringe.
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: Oh, no. It hurts me. It hurts me.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: Secondhand embarrassment, like, kills me to the point that I
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: know exactly who Nathan Fielder is. My partner who loves
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: all of this and then finds it even like even
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: the Jon Stewart Daily Show level of cringe of like
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: them going to obviously not antagonize, but like talk to
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: people who they know are going to say something real
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: out of pocket. But they love to thrive. And like,
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: but it makes me cringe so badly that I'm like,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: I can't.
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: It hurts me.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: So I did try to watch because he loves Nathan
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: for you so much. And the first 15 minutes, I
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: don't even know which episode it was. I was like, no,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: turn it off.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Turn it off.
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: I can't. I can't.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Nope.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: So like I have avoided Nathan Fielder like the plague.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: Like he is, if there's an opposite, if there's an
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: arch enemy, he is my arch enemy.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: Like in like the most, yeah, ridiculous.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: Like the entire time we were watching this movie, my
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: expression of like just every time he would do something
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: where I just watch him like, why is he doing this?
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: I hate him so much. Like that was my reaction.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: It was fun for me because I was sitting in
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: between my two friends, Samantha and Katie, who were both like,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: this is too awkward.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I can't see it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: And I would just look over at both of them
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: and they'd be cringing into their seats.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. It was great.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: So I had, I always take like a cardigan or
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: some kind of sweater or jacket so that I can
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: like cover myself.
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: I don't know why. I just need to because like
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: I need to be able to hide.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: And I definitely was hiding in my cardigan going, no, why? Wow.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: To the point that it was quite funny when we
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: got home, my partner was looking at his watch and
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: he was showing me that he had a little bit
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: of stress. Like, you know, we have the smart watches
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: and I looked to see what mine was. And the
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: spike during the movie of my stress level, I had
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: to take a screenshot because it was so ridiculous that
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: it was, I didn't realize it was measuring me that much.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: And to the point that when I'm on the drive home,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: I was driving home, you know, that moment, like we
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: just had this when something's about to happen or something,
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: you know, you're nervous about something or you're waiting on something.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: That anxiety was within me the entire time last night
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: that I had to go take my, like, anti-anxiety because
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, no. I'm not going to be
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: able to, like, get off of this track of, like,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: something about to happen to me. You know, that, like,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: nervousness of expectation because of this movie. And don't get
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: me wrong. I still enjoyed it. Will I ever watch
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: it again? Hell no.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: Will I talk about it?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: Am I getting a little anxious as we speak about
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: it right now? Yes.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize we were putting you through the wringer,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: getting you to watch this.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I was just like, oh, this is going to be
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: so fun for everyone involved.
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: This is the thing.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Of course, obviously, in all of the world and all
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: its problems, this is just a me thing. This is
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: specifically like there. are several people who talk about this, like,
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: that cringe. Like, I'm that person who couldn't watch The
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Office until it came out on streaming, and I have
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: to get spoilers so I can figure out when to skip.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: The Office?
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: The Office, the comedy, yeah. Because, like, think about Scott's Tots, right?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: That was hard to watch. Right.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: Stuff like that, where he does those moments that you're
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: just like, I can't do this. So this is absolutely,
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: it's not my worst nightmare, but it's definitely like that
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: haunted house feeling of like running away from something in
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: absolute absolute fear.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: So this is that level for me.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Nathan Fielder being Samantha's biggest op.
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: It's really funny to me. At this point, yes.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: I feel like he's personally trying to attack me by
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: doing this. The shots, the close-ups, the silence, the way
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: that he was trying to pretend like he was flirting,
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: but also pretending like the awkwardness at putting in, the
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: heightened awkwardness because he knows that the audience is going
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: to react this way. It feels like a personal attack, yes.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: And I will even say that in this movie, I
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: think he was on his best behavior.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Like, I think from all of the.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: And maybe that's why I was like, okay with it.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, all of the content I've watched from him,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: this seemed to me like the least of him being
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: in his character.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: And maybe closer to just how he is. Obviously, there
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: was a lot of, like, moments that I think he's
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: still doing it. But, like, he was the most normal
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: he's been, I feel like.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, when he actually gets a little emotional or
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: tries to rile some emotion out of Elizabeth, I feel
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: like that was not necessarily him being himself, but it's
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: taking him out of the character that we know. So
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: it made him a little more human to me and not, again,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: my enemy. But the shots of him being in the window,
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: just staring in, I was like, you son of a bitch.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: And I know Oppenheim is also the director and he
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: does this, but the intense close-ups, the way it kind
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: of just micro-stepped forward, like the micro-movements of him getting in,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I really hate you. This is also one
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: of those movies, and this is why going to the
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: theater is different, because I like to be distracted on something,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: so if I need to ignore it, I can. I
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: have my phone. But this is also one of those
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: that I couldn't do that, obviously, at the theater. So
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: I'm like, huh, huh.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: Like I did. I started talking out loud because I
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: was uncomfortable.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: This is exposure therapy.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: It really was. And in like in such a way.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: But but again, like this is something that I think
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: is a good discussion in general.
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: But I was like, why? But I can't not. There
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: has to be a way for me to work this out.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: It was shot extremely uncomfortably. It's very claustrophobic, very tight.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Whenever the camera is kind of panned to having more
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: than one person on the screen, it's kind.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Of like a sigh of relief.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: You're like, finally.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: But it also captures all of these micro-expressions. It really
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: can get people to just like... try to decipher these
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: people that are so undecipherable.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: It's a thing. But I survived it. It did.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: Like, there was, again, this is also one of those
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: that I knew the more spoilers would be worse. I
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: did want to be able to see what was unexpected,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: to have that initial reaction, because that's, like, everyone's conversation.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: And sometimes you're like, okay, yeah, this is, because it's
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: a documentary. How else are you, you know, like, you
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: don't expect twists and turns. Again, Nathan Fielder is in
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: his own, like, realm, in his own world. So, like,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: obviously he's going to try it. But as expectations, because
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: as I'm reading, like, oh, he had a kill switch
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: for the documentary if he couldn't get exactly how he
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: wanted it to be and we know again as little
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: as I might know of him I know him well
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: enough to know that he needs to be able to
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: flip it somehow to something unexpected.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: And boy did he.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I kept saying this is a wild film like and
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: it's a documentary but it has all these twists and
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: turns you're not expecting the second half I just can't
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: How could I anticipate this?
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: When she went to prison, I was like, has it
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: been three hours? I knew the runtime. I was like,
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: how is this going to keep going? And little did
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: That it actually does keep going.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I knew that Amanda Seyfried was in it. I had
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: no idea the.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Big role she was going to play. I thought she
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: was just going to be a cameo.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it was going to be like, her
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: reprising that role again.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I had no idea she was in it.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So for listeners who don't know, Amanda Seyfried played Elizabeth
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Holmes in the Hulu show, The Dropout, about Elizabeth Holmes
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: and Theranos and all of the things that happened there,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: which does become a point in this movie about how
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: fictionalized it was or wasn't, but also she becomes a
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: part of reenacting, coming back into this role as Elizabeth
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Holmes when Elizabeth Holmes is in jail, which is probably
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: one of the biggest shocks to me, but also a
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: really fascinating thing of her perspective on and how it's colored.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: By Nathan Fielder's perspective on what he said to Elizabeth Holmes.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: So at this point, for the listeners, do you want
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: to break it down or how do you want to
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: go about this? Because obviously we just said one of
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: the biggest surprises in this movie, which is Amanda Seyfried, who.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: I also had seen an interview because now she's on
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: the red carpet for other things. And they asked her,
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: they're like, so we're not going to talk about it,
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: but the new documentary. And she was like, uh-huh. And
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: that's all they say. That's kind of the end of it.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it was unexpected. Again, because the way they
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: make it seem, which I'm really glad since we know,
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: is that it's just a pop-up cameo.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Not realizing what it was becoming.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: So have either of you seen the dropout, the show?
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: No.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: No, actually. I have.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: It's been a long time, but we're going to talk
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: about it a little bit. I wanted to discuss kind
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of a two or maybe the larger part issue, but
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: like a question of the role of the Watcher, which
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like this movie has of, you know, what
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: as the documentarian is your role?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: When do you step in?
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: When does.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Your relationship with the person you're covering, impact what gets shown.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: But also with the dropout and Amanda Savory, she has
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: this point that it's fictional, it's fictional, it's fictional, and
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: she kind of gets prickly about it at one point.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And so what's the responsibility there of a fictional show
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that has had... I went into this movie thinking I
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: kind of understood the story based on that show. And
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I left thinking, I don't know.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: So any thoughts on that?
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is where we have to talk about
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: true crime stories, in essence, in that understanding. When we
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: dramatize something for entertainment, it's actually based on real people.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: People have been affected. It's not just a what-if scenario.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: It was in my imagination. And so there's a responsibility
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: in how it's told. And it does come to the
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: larger conversation about like it affects people.
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: This lie does like really taint a view.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: It's kind of that whole thing, a narrative when we
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: talk about with trials, when we have TikTok detectives or
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: social media detectives who come through and think they're investigating,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: but they're doing it based on an idea.
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: Maybe that is portrayed or based on a lie.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: Same thing here. and then making the situation either worse
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: or better. Like, you know, that's kind of that whole
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: thing with the women who have been, who are suing
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: the lawyer. The whole smear campaign is this perspective. So,
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: or this ideal, and if they just have enough of
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: an influence out there, it changes some outcomes. And it's
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: kind of like what we see with the dropout, what
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: both Amanda and Elizabeth both have to say, and that
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: Amanda's like, I play the character. I played a character
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: that was given to me in a script based on
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: someone's assumptions and ideas, loosely based ideas, which is why
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: we have to have loosely based on these characters. We
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: have to have those because people got sued. People got
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: really upset when they didn't do that. When we had
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: a whole lifetime who did a whole network based on
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: true crime and sensationalizing a lot of things. And then
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: we do have someone, Elizabeth, who, again, I've not seen
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: much of the dropout. I just know tidbits about her life.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: And she is painted as a villain, just in narrative form.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: And it could have been partially due to the Hulu series,
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: the dropout.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm glad you put it that way. I think
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons, I've been wondering why this movie
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: has caused so much conversation.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And I think one of the reasons is that.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: A lot of people like me went in thinking you're
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: going to get this one, you're going to get the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: story of her, the villain. But then it becomes like
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: almost sympathetic to her. And I think it's interesting that
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you see Nathan Fielder go through a shift in what
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I perceive as a shift in his perspective. And then
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the audience kind of similarly going through that.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And then at the end, I.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Was left with, okay, has she manipulated me, the audience member?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Like, has....
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: What from this is true from this documentary versus what
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I've already seen and.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: Heard, it.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Just feels like a real... Like I came out of
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: hypnosis or something. I don't know what to make of this.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: And it's really interesting because obviously I think that this
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: story is a bit twofold of like she and she's
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: literally guilty of this defrauded people.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I don't really care. About people defrauding investors.
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: I said the exact same thing. I said the exact
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: same thing.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I don't care. But she defrauded patients.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of what happens when you're in biotech
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: and you're making promises to to people that you can't
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: come up with really. And people were taking these tests
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: and it colored my viewing because she's so good at
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: being so sympathetic. And you can literally, I think, see
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: it happen to Nathan in real time, watching him kind
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: of like defend her in a way. It's so strange
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: because he obviously doesn't. He clearly, at some point during
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: the process, sees Billy as the villain here and maybe
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: sees Elizabeth as misunderstood. And maybe in a lot of
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: ways she is, but she did do something bad and
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: hurt people. But also I think that in our society
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: right now, people love to vilify women firstly, and really
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: try to take apart any successful woman. And, you know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: from that whole situation, she obviously was the CEO and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: deserves in a way to be vilified too.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: And so there were.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: We're really like running through a bunch of different thoughts
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: and feelings. And at the end of the day, I
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: don't care about a billionaire. Maybe she's not a billionaire anymore,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: but she certainly was. And I think the money conversation
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: in the movie was so interesting to me, where it really,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: you can either think that she doesn't care at all
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: about the money at all, or she could think that
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: she sent her husband in to make the business plans
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: so she.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't be culpable.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: And I can't really answer any questions, which is what
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think I expected more answers from this documentary and
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: simply left with more questions.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: No, I think that's... Well, this is a perspective I
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: had on the entire movie because, again, there's a lot. But, like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: as Billy is, obviously, if there was a villain in
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: this conversation, it is him.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: As we see it, especially towards the end.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Her boyfriend. He sucks.
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: But at the.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Same time, he is the most honest of them. Like,
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: the reason we can hate him as much as he is,
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: he really doesn't try to hide himself.
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: Interesting. Whether it's a red pill tech.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: Bro coming in to talk about how he's a man
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: and how he knows everything and how he's going to
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: fix everything, whether he's talking about his power of attorney
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: and not filing, but just admitting, yeah, I'd do the tweets.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: I'm the one who did this. It's not her.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Or I don't tell her things like he is the
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: most honest of all of them. Let's just be very clear.
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: Like we know where he stands. We know who he is.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: We know he's about that money. He says it from jump.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: He says that like we find out that he's told
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: Nathan this. He's the one that cuts things off. He's
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: the one that's like, I don't care about AI. I'm
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: gonna make it. It's gonna happen anyway, so let's go
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: ahead and do this. They're definitely gonna use this for sex. Oh, well. Like,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: he says the only thing he might have been dishonest
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: about is I doubt he's been quote-unquote faithful and celibate
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: since Elizabeth's incarceration.
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna leave it at that. But, like.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: He said, 900 days I've been counting.
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, okay, bro, sure.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: But to be very, like, Like, he's the one who
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: says all the bad things.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: Like, he says it out loud.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: And, like, that's the only times we're getting any confirmation, honestly,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: of what is happening. It's like, he's the one. I
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: can't stand him. He is the worst. I think, like,
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: he probably will always be a villain. There's nothing about
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: himself that's redeeming in any of this.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: But we know his true face.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: And it's crazy you say true face because I feel
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: like the... So the movie has a two-year time jump.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: And you can literally see on his face his descent to...
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Or like his unmasking in a way. His face looks
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: different the second half of the movie.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: It's bloated. He is paranoid. From my point of view...
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: allegedly is.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Probably doing a lot of cocaine.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Can I say that on the podcast?
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Allegedly, because that man was sniffing and his pupils were crazy.
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: He was erratic, combative.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: He was erratic. He was paranoid. Yeah. Just like a
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: really not great guy.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: But in a way, I'm like, and I obviously don't
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: want any women to be with a bad guy.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: But in a way, I'm like, wow.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Are they like perfectly paired and matched? Like that ending
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: scene where she's kind of telling Nathan, like, listen, I
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: don't care what he does. Like we have an understanding
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: in a way. It's hard to know what is true
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: or not coming out of her mouth. But she seems
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: so truthful every time she.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: Talks okay so amy as we because like there are
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: several things that you and i've talked about that's bringing
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: up uh when we're especially like we were talking about
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: his face changing we were like there's something different here
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: like what were your thoughts on because i know you
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: every time we would sit there billy would just talk
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: she would just point and go this guy this guy
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: throughout the entire movie it's.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: True it's true so.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: When I originally wanted to just, I was just going
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: to do a happy hour in a really short thing.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about how I was not expecting
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: this guy. It feels naive now looking back because it's
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: like tech.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I should have expected some manosphere bro to show up.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And boy, did he, boy, did he, uh, I thought
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: it was fascinating to see it in theaters. I highly
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: recommend seeing it in theaters. I feel bad if I'm
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: telling you this now, listeners, I've already ruined it, but
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Because people reacted so viscerally to him. When he brings
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: out the Charlie Kirk reference, I mean, it was people gassed.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: One lady was like, no, sir.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: My theater was animated.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: The first time.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And the one Samantha and I went to last night,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: it was also animated. But people really, just like Nathan
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Fielder seemingly did, main him. He's the villain. He's the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: main villain. And there's something about that I find really,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: really intriguing because there's a lot of themes about control
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: in this movie. Who controls what? And he is very
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: controlling about the narrative he wants out. He's controlling about
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: her image. But it's also, there's something about the tension
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: between a social narrative and of women being liars versus
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: she's actually a liar, and also him being the villain,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the controlling boyfriend, are we minimizing, in a weird way,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: her power?
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Like, are we taking away kind of her.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: As you said, Rima, we don't know.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe she meant for him to be the fall guy,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to not have culpability. But are we painting her as
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: this kind of, oh, she's being controlled. She didn't know
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: person when that's not the story there.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: So here's my theory.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: And I've kind of shared with both of you, Annie
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: and my partner, because, you know, you can't walk away
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: from this movie not talking about it, which is where
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: we are today, which is also like I have to
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: say that because we're going to end up having a discussion.
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: I'm just going to stay here going, what?
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: But.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: My inclination in this moment, especially as we kind of
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: had a back-end reveal, again, listeners, you've already probably gotten
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: completely spoiled and we're going to have to go back
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: and let you know, don't do this.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: But, I mean, I try to put it in there.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: But one of the back-end things is her really, like,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of people expected kind of that
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: when he reveals all these bad things that Billie is
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: doing that she didn't know about and Billie admits to
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: saying she doesn't care, she doesn't know.
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: She really reacted with like, it's fine, it's fine. Yeah, yeah,
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: we're fine. Yeah, it's fine.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: Nothing was shocking as he relays it to us. Now
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: we don't see this as it is relayed to us
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: that it seems like she's just like, eh, it is
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: what it is. With that type of reveal, instead of
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: being like, oh my God, I'm so mad at him. No,
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: he lied to me or any of those, like what
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: we thought would be a normal reaction.
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: It doesn't come. And then we have.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: Again, a dramatized moment of Amanda Seyfried playing into it
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: and just giving him the look, a look of like,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: we understand each other while Nathan looks still vaguely confused,
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: trying to figure out what that meant almost. Like, but like,
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: to me, it seems like I absolutely think that if
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: she can be in love emotionally and detached, that she
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: is in love with Billy. But I think she also
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: is really in love with the idea that she knows
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: she married a villain or she's partnering with the villain
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: and that will always obviously be the villain. And in
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: comparison to, she will look calm and demure and just
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: kind of goofy. You know, like when we have the
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: who's on first reference, she reacts in a way that
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: makes you think, oh, maybe there's some neurodivergence here that
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: she just really does not understand and cannot read these things.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Or is it that she's playing into that and or
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: maybe that she just didn't want to seem unintelligent, so
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: was afraid to answer, give the wrong answer. Like, I
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: had those moments of like, I think I know what
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: you're trying to get at, but you're trying to get
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: at it so hard that if I get it wrong,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: it's going to be bad. So I'm just going to
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: give you generic answers. All of that to say, could
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: it be that that groundwork is understanding that she's playing
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: an opponent or a person in her life as a
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: side character that will enhance her As an individual. And
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: is Billy that person who is so inevitably awful? He
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: is so awful and she is very aware of it.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: But he's not awful to her and she looks great
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: in comparison. Is she playing into that?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of the quote that they start the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: movie with and end the movie with. The New York
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Times quote that's disputed. Did she create a character or
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: was a character created.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: By the media for her?
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Which I think is really interesting because I think that
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: does get to the heart of why we can't figure
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: her out and why I do, I think, Nathan couldn't
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: figure her out either. I think it ends with him
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: being like, oh, I could not, I could not figure
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: this person out. And I'm glad you're here, Rima, since
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: you're familiar with his work, but I do know there
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: was a conversation about neurodivergence in this movie. And he's
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: been kind of open about that and his experience with it.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Who's on first reference where she just doesn't get it?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: At least that's what she's trying to convey is fascinating.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Because I think in that moment, he also has another
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: moment where he's like, so you're saying you believe you
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: weren't misleading anybody by using the word could. This machine
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: could be. cure or test for all of these kinds
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: of things. And I feel like it was a real
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: take on, like, neurodivergent.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Like, is she.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Is this real? I know.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I absolutely agree.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, there were certainly parts where I was watching
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: this and I was like, yeah, this, you know... Another,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: this woman is a part of a spectrum somewhere of neurodivergence.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: But again, like, I feel like I was along on
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: the ride of believing her and not believing her the
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: same way Nathan was. And I think that's kind of
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: what was genius about how they presented the doc. Me
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: knowing that she's literally been indicted for lying. And yet
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: believing that she has never lied. It's just, it's crazy.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Who knows, you know? And it's just interesting seeing that
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: happen to somebody who is usually on the other end
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: of it. And I think it's like really interesting when
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Nathan is first talking to Amanda and he says something
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: to her like, don't let her get you.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Don't fall for it.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: And then about an hour later in the movie, we
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: see Amanda kind of run that back to him. and
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: ask him whether he's been withholding things because he cares
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: about her. And I think the actually most damning reveal
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: in the whole movie is the reveal that he went
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: into the ocean with her to play.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: When he said he didn't want to. As friends do. Yeah,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: as homies do, you know?
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: And at that point, like, you're, as an interviewee, when
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: you're engaged with a subject like that, like it's no
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: longer unbiased.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Or maybe it never was.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's an interesting question, the question of her neurodivergence,
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: even with her like eye contact.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: And it's just, what is it? What's real?
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys have read the New
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: York Times article in question.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I read it recently after the movie.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: And interestingly enough, I'll send it to you guys. The writer,
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Amy Chozik, I think, also spent a lot of time
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: with Elizabeth and Billy and kind of went on a
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: journey like Nathan. And it comes out that like people
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: who spend time with her typically end up believing her
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: in some way. and having to remind themselves who they're
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: dealing with. But I found that really interesting because the
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: writer had spent multiple days. It wasn't just one sit-down interview.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: They spent time together. And you can see in the
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: article kind of this exact up and down that Nathan had,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: but in article form. I was kind of like, that's
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: kind of really funny. I'm imagining the writer watching this
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: doc and being like, I already did this.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Where are my accolades?
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: I think coming back to the neurodivergence, because Nathan Fielder,
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: his shtick, and not that he doesn't have any kind
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: of neurodivergency or he's not on a spectrum, he plays
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: into it in a way that causes that tension, that
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: cringe comedy, the cringe comedy that he very much enjoys.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: And it's kind of like, it's brought in from like
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: the UK idea of the straight laced, a sarcasm that
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: doesn't always translate well universally. And we see him in
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: that way because we know he is an awkward guy.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: He knows he's an awkward guy. And what that means
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: and how that translates, especially in a world of comedy,
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: his comedy is unique. His comedy is very much interactive.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: But this interaction has to be the willingness to be
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: uncomfortable with everyone. What does that look like if you
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: do have neurodivergence? And so you are playing into that
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: or you are amplifying that. And this is what he does.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: So you bring in someone who may be a sociopath
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: who is a different type of diagnosis, who may have
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: a different type of diagnosis.
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: Him as well.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: He also has a different type of diagnosis from what
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: you can see, just from the small background that I
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: have in the world of, you know, DSM-IV, DM-V, whatever, whatnot,
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: like you see that there is a level where that
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: spectrum is, where his self-awareness is, is absolutely hidden. He
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: keeps his background. He keeps his private life truly, truly
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: private because if he can delve into that, you can
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: start understanding where is he actually this person that he portrays.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: And even though he absolutely says it's not necessarily that,
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: you just don't know where the line is. You don't
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: know the levels. We don't know how far on the
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: spectrum that he is actually on versus what he's playing
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: up for comedy's sake. Now, you put that in a
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: documentary with a crime that does legitimately have hurt, harmed people.
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: Someone had died by suicide. Annie, you are the one
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: who let me know that. It was portrayed in the dropout.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, okay.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: And I read about it and like it was Like,
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: I'm actually surprised that she didn't get charged with a
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: negligent homicide somehow, or like at least some type of
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: level of like negligence in the workplace. Again, I'm with you, Rima.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: And I said the same thing. I was like, I
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: don't care if investors got defrauded. Y'all are trying to
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: make money off of people's healthcare. And that really makes
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: me mad. However, I do care that people who were
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: seeking their life-changing technologies. As a scientist who bring change,
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: he died because he couldn't handle or whatever the stressors
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: in this timeline was for him. And if his work
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: in this company really pushed him to that, then they
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: should be held accountable. The people who were banking on
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: these tests or were a part of the testing who
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: got harmed in some way.
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: Absolutely should get justice, but they didn't.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: The reason she went to jail was because of the investors,
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: because of the money lost which is in itself a
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: whole injustice. But her realm of complete denial, and then
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: you have a comedian who plays into social awkwardness, not
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: knowing exactly where this was going to go, but knowing
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: that this was going to be unique. You have so
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: many lines of conversation of like, who is this man
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: that needed to do this? He is an op. Now
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: that I'm digging into it. But who is this man
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: who needed this? But at the same time, he was
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: able to bring out so many questions that we need
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: to kind of recognize when it comes to like our
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: own misogyny. When we look at our own level of
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: social inequalities, again, the dude bro who needed to come
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: in and even talk about his sex life. Like he
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: needed to be like, I can satisfy women. I'm like,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: what the hell is happening in this conversation? Why do
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: we need to talk about this with you who needed
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: to be naked in front of Nathan to show off
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: his manliness? So they like, like, These questions all came
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: into play into a conversation that really, obviously, she's affected.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: She's in jail, you know, as well as people who
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: have lost money. We saw his hard parents. I feel
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: like they were the true victim in this conversation. Sure,
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: they probably enabled her in so many ways. But the
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: tension between the father and Billy, the tension of him
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: trying to make excuses for his daughter, the tension of
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: the mother being really uncomfortable by the idea that they're
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: trying to do this again, which, by the way, we
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: need to talk about too. But they're trying to do
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: this ploy again, which has already ruined her life. There's
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: so many things to this realm of this documentary that
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: just kind of expounds into a real background of, Who
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: she has hurt, but also how Nathan is kind of
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: profiting and gaining credibility in this as well.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I feel like everyone is using each other at all
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: times in this movie. I think he knows, Nathan knows
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: that this will be, you know, people are very curious
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: and interested in this story. People are really into trying
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: to figure out Elizabeth Holmes. But do you believe that
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: she had no idea who he was when they agreed
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: to have him be a part of their home and interview?
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: We're talking about someone who, you know, invented... this company
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: at the age of 19. She is, you know, was
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: at Stanford. Like, she's smart, obviously. It's a little interesting
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: to me that her and Billy are, say they don't
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: know who Nathan is, or I don't know if Billy
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: says that, but I do think that everyone knows what
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: the other is doing for them. And I find it
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: like a very interesting relationship, whereas Amanda Seyfried says at
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: the end, it's complicated. I was like, yeah, girl, it's
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: been three hours of complicated. This is crazy.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: So that's a really great review of it.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Three hours of complicated.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: And the whole second half or even the whole movie
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: is about her trying to reclaim her image of how
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: important that is to her, how she hates how it's
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: been used and how this character has been created, either
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: by the media or by her ex-partner and the ex-CFO,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: what was his name? Sonny at Theranos, that he created.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: But then we see on the flip side, Billie actively
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: using her image for crazy stuff and her being okay
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: with that. I think the question of who Elizabeth is
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: versus Liz is really interesting. And I'm not a fan
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: of the New York Times generally, but that whole article
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: really goes into that.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I think could be a
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: whole episode on itself but i was thinking about was
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: um in the dropout they go out of their way
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: to make it to portray it as if like elizabeth's
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: voice the reason she does that is it's a man's
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: world like she's got to have the deep voice like
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and she wears these outfits because it's a man's world
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: and steven job like that it's steve jobs that kind
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of calls back to him so her it's a fictional
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: show so i don't know but in the show it's
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: represented as if she was she was creating this character
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: but also it goes back to that tension we were
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier of.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: She's a woman in an industry where you might need.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: To do that like it it's so strange and then
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: also the she has that line at the end where
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: She calls out Amanda Seyfried, and it's like, why would
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: she take down another woman like that? And then her
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: dad also just kind of, out of the blue, just
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: brings up, oh, she was raped, and that's why she
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: was like that. That's why she behaves this way. And
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: so it's just a real, it's complicated, because I don't
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: want to dismiss that these were pressures, and these are
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: things that might have happened.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: But also, I think she lied. I think she's a liar.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I think she's a liar.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a nice reminder that people are
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: capable of all types of things, you know, and are
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: both victim and oppressor at the same time in a
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: lot of ways, especially when there is billions of dollars involved.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: and just like how money can truly color something so
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: intensely when like I'm sure I don't know her I
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: don't know her motives but it's hard to believe she
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: didn't care about the money of it all ever and
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I think that it's an yeah just an example of
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: how money can push us to be the worst versions
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: of ourselves. And at the same time, like, you can
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: still be... All those other things about her could still
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: be true, you know?
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: And I think that's especially hard when you are having
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: a personal relationship with someone like that. Because when you
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: have a personal relationship to most people, I think you'll
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: be like, oh, this person's, like, normal. Because at the
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: end of the day, a lot of the villains that
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: run our society.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: Could probably have a normal conversation with you. I'm just
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: on my soapbox now. But I just find it really interesting.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: I find our interest in her very interesting, myself included.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: I didn't watch the show, but I watched a ton
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: of YouTube videos about her when this was happening, and
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: I was really intrigued by this, like, as she says, character.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: And, yeah.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: You also brought up Rima. You sent us an article
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: about the prison aspect of this movie that I wanted
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: to touch on.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like the most sympathetic I was to
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: her the whole movie is the you know, the fact
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: that going to being incarcerated is a terrible, terrible thing.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: And I was talking about this with my partner, that
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: the moments, the phone call she received.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Where she was kind.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Of learning about what an intensive search is that she
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: would be having to wake up at 3 a.m., all
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: of these extremely dehumanizing aspects of the incarceration system in
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: this country, how awful that must be. For even a
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: person guilty of defrauding investors legally and then also guilty
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: of hurting people even though that didn't go through in
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: the courts. It is a very sympathetic thing to watch
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: a mother say and cry about the milk that she
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: left for herself. child that she's not going to see
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: grow up on a day-to-day basis.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Like, it's terrible.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: But she also probably has it the best of in
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: terms of like where she was sent and the conditions
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: that she's in. And she is like a white person
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day who has money or
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: had and had lawyers and had like all these things
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: that aren't always the case or not even usually the
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: case for the incarceration in this country. And I think
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: that the movie is interesting in that it takes her
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: away from being in the movie And I think it's
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: like a harrowing kind of depiction of what it's like
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: to be incarcerated in this country. And I think it's
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: her relationship with her upcoming incarceration in the movie at
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: the beginning and then the effects of it at the
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: second half is very harrowing to watch. And I could,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: you know, obviously there's levels to all these things. But yeah, like,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: jail's that's crazy. That sucks for everyone. It's not a
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: good system. It shouldn't be how it is in this country.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: And it's terrible.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: And she's just, she's in jail. And again, she was guilty.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: And we could get into the whole topic of incarceration
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: in the United States. But man, she's not getting rehabilitated
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: she's not like she's it's it's none of those things
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: you know um she still has this idea and dream
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: of rebuilding something and she said she's gonna work on
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: it every day in jail and it's like that's not
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: what she needs you know she needed some sort of
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: rehabilitation um and that's just not what our prisons provide.
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: No, yeah.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: The prison system is a whole conversation we need to have.
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: We talked about the juvenile delinquency system and the fact
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: that it is built on private profits and private corporations
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: here in the U.S. and how much money our administration
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: is making currently off of these. And it's not true rehabilitation.
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: Should we be funding true rehabilitation? Yeah, if we actually
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: took all the money that's going into these lockups, the
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: amount of change that could be made.
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: But that's a whole conversation. different conversation.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: Here, it's interesting because you did bring up, she's a
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: white woman, and there's a lot of discourse about the
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: fact that this could only happen with a blue-eyed, blonde-haired
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: white woman to have this conversation of sympathy and a
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: discourse about whether or not she is sympathetic, whether or
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: not she is the victim here versus being told she
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: was manipulative and all of these things, like just that
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: one simple conversation, because we could not have the story
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: if this was a woman of color, specifically like Black
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: women or women, Middle Eastern women in general, Latino women.
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: I think like Asian women.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: They're the epitome of aegyo in that level of like cuteness.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: So cuteness can get you a certain amount of time
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: of certain like stretch of things where the innocence happens.
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: Can be portrayed.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: But we know when it comes to women of color,
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: that's not often given in any realm. So it is
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: a bigger conversation of who is allowed this. She is
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: in jail. She is obviously, people are still saying, no,
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: she really is not a great. So it's not like
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: she's like scot-free in any way of like responsibility. But
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: the fact that this is a back and forth about
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: Nathan Fielder too, like Does he believe her? Did he
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: get manipulated by her? Is he now kind of more
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: on her side? Like, how did that go about? Could
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: that have happened if this was a Black woman? Or
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: could that have happened if this was, you know, a
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: Muslim woman? Like, is this an actual thing? Or is
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: this like a part of the bias that needs to
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: be talked about on a wider gap? A lot of like,
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: like I said, on TikTok, I've seen Black women coming like,
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: this is something that we could not relate to. This
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: is not for me. This entire thing is showing me, again,
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: how bad the system is broken on a different level
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: once again. And just like you were saying, like, in
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: her level of trying to be a little more sympathetic in, like,
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: in this conversation of, like, we want, we do feel
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: bad for her because, yeah, it was heartbreaking to see
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: her cry about the fact that she has milk in
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: the refrigerator for her daughter because she was not going
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: to be able to breastfeed her. So, like, I had
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: this saved up in trying to be a mother. But
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: it's also convenient that all the times that she needs
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: to go away or stop a conversation, most of the
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: times it's whether it's like having to rock the baby
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: or having to breastfeed the baby or having to go
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: help the baby or going to go lay down. It
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: almost went into overtime to show how loving she was.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: And I can't remember, Annie or Rima, if you remember,
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: when she was initially convicted, I thought at one point
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: she was actually supposed to go to prison earlier, but
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: then they found out she was pregnant and she was
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: able to postpone until after the birth of the baby.
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: Did that happen or did that just make that up
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: in my head?
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: They postponed, I think, the trial because she was late
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: in her pregnancy. And so they postponed it to after
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: she had given birth and things like that.
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: Which is legitimate.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Which is legitimate.
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: Stress is bad. Yeah. But did she time that?
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: I think that's definitely a good question because she had,
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: and then she had her second kid as well. But also,
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: if she knows that her incarceration is coming, maybe she
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: doesn't know at the time, but like in that article,
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: the New York Times article, oh, I hate shouting out
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: the New York Times.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: I hate it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: But she says that like, Her and Billy wanted a
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: big family and didn't want to wait to see what happens, basically.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: I do want to shout out, because I'm done shouting
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: out the New York Times. This article that Annie was
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: referencing earlier, I should have mentioned, is a Brooklyn Mag
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: article written by Ock Sportello. I'm sorry if that's not
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: the right way to pronounce your name. You can see
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: everything unless you're in prison. It's a great read, honestly.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: That kind of... Yeah, it brings about a lot of
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: these questions about how incarceration is shown in the movie.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: It's a good article. I would recommend it. I don't
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: know Brooklyn Mag that heavily or anything.
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's just so much.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: Because I also want to go back in that conversation
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: about the fact that would she be constantly going back
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: to Theranos and starting it over again, if not for Billy?
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: Would she have actually set it aside, except that he's
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: doing all this extra research to help her?
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: He's going to fix it for her, which is, again,
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: very much on par with the tech bro, Red Pill Dune.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: But yeah, this one was definitely one that has me
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: going back and forth because it's also a part of
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: me Which I feel like Nathan Fielder felt this way
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: because he says it at the very beginning of the documentary.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: He's like, my fear is, my insecurity is that you
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: brought me in, as Annie, you were asking him before.
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: You brought me in thinking because I don't know science well,
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: that I'm not a scientist, that you're going to be
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: able to like get over on me because you think
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: I'm too stupid and ignorant to science to understand what
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: you're doing and when you're lying. And I feel like
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: that's kind of how all of us feel at this point.
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: We're all on edge, which is probably my part of
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: my anxiety is like we don't want to be made
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: a fool of like Amanda and Nathan had said. So
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: we're trying to figure out what is happening and we
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: don't want to be manipulated by either Elizabeth or Nathan
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: at this point. Like we were trying to figure out
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: how to do this because like are y'all trying to
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: make us look stupid here?
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it is hard to question. I don't know.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not in that field. I do, you know, we
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: could keep going on and on. I did want to mention,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, I kind of know the answer, but I've polled,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: I did an informal poll of all my friends who
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: have seen this movie after a text exchange we had
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: this morning in our group. I was like, okay, who
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: thought there was some kind of romantic sexual tension?
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: And explain it to me.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: And I got such fascinating responses. People had such different takes.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: But the general take was that Elizabeth Holmes was maybe
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: using some kind of attraction or sympathy she has to
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: her advantage to get a romantic attraction. He has that
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: weird line where he randomly is like, I don't have
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: a girlfriend anymore.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: We broke up.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: But that goes back to that tension I keep coming
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: to where it sounds so oh a woman i don't
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: know but she is manipulative.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: It's just.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I go back and forth about this but i'm just
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: interested your thoughts on this because i do think it's
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: going to be a big halloween couple's costume.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: I want to point out at the very beginning of
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: the movie, they talk about how holding eye contact is
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: her flirtation technique. And then you proceed to watch her
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: hold such insane eye contact with Nathan for like three hours.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, are they flirting? Oh my gosh. So interesting.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: So strange.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: I think they're both kind of masters of holding eye.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: the tension without breaking it. And that is in a
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: way kind of creates this like curiosity for us as viewers,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: because for any other person, you know, you want to
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: break that tension. But when it's held for so long,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: you're kind of like, wait, do they like this? Like,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: are they into this right now? And there was a
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: scene when he's saying bye to her, where I genuinely
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: thought they were going in.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: For a kiss.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: Like, I genuinely thought that. And I was holding my
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: hands to my face, like, what has this movie become?
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: I literally was like, you know, because it's kind of funny,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: the little, and then they kiss?
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: And I think this isn't the first time where I
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: feel like with like a subject in one of Nathan's
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: things that there's like this strange chemistry because I do
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: think there is so much energy held in the ability
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: to not break silence. So it's not that I don't
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: think this is the first time that people have been
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: feeling that from him towards a subject and vice versa.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: But I think she's just literally his like, Yeah, his
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: immovable object.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Moriarty to his Sherlock Holmes. Exactly.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: Hey.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: There it is.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: No, so what I understand, in one of his, I
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: don't know if it's an episode or one of his movies,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: Nathan Filder does admit to using.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: His awkwardness as a way to flirt. Like he knows
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: this works. For many.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: And honestly, apparently, so many of the internets want to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: be his girlfriend and kept talking about how hot he is.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm very angry about that statement.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Don't talk to me.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: Whoever you are, don't talk to me because I just
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: want to smack him. But I'm just kidding. Please cut
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: that part out. People get mad at me.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Samantha wants to be violent.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: That's how I got canceled. I just want to smack him.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: But I think like one of the things that I
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: can see is is it may not even be so
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: much the flirtation between the two. Like, I don't think
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: she's trying to seduce him, and I don't necessarily think
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: he's trying to seduce her, but it's that white woman
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: protector field, where it is he wants to be her
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: knight in shining armor, or he's playing into that, and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: that's what she's hoping. That's why she's hoping, like, he'll
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: want to protect her. So if he can be protective
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: of her, then the things that he's going to relay
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: to the audience will make everybody else feel that way
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: and somehow rally behind or even revolt for her, actually
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: fight for her somehow to be like, whether it's the
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: social media, she needs to be released.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: I think that's what she's.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Hoping for is this turning tide of she truly becomes
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: the victim and these white woman tears and this look
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: of intensity. Because I'm... My partner did say, is she wearing,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: like her eyes are blue, but there's also reflections of contacts,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: which is fine. She might just wear contacts for sure.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: But like, does she enhance them so she can have
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: even more of that intense stare and depth because it
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: does bring that level. So if she is, that's another
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: tactic that can be used on other people. And so
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: perhaps one of the things about what she understands about
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: herself is she knows that awkward guys like her whether
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: it's because she does have that intense attention holding gaze
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: or like where they feel like they're being chosen to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: be her protector once again like i feel like that
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: might be the level of what i'm seeing it's like
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: not just like oh they want each other there's something
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: into that realm of that stereotype or that.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Trope which is also like Listeners, if you've made it
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: this far, if you don't know the story, I guess,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: it's also an argument you could make. Did she learn
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: this behavior from Sunny, who was her longtime partner that
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: she got with at a young age? Or did she
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: just know? Like, that's a societal thing. She knows, like,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: a white woman with blonde hair and blue eyes. Or
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: was she taught it by someone?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Questions! We're left with more questions. Questions. Add it to
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: the questions list. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Rima.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: This has been so great. Thanks for having me. This
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: was great. Anytime, anytime. And I'm sure we could come
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: back later.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Because there's still ongoing news about this right now. Yes.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: I had to look up what Billy's reaction is. He's
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: seen it, apparently.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Billy is in the news.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Billy's in the news.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: He's seen this. He doesn't seem too unhappy. I don't know.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: I wanted to tell you guys something. So you know
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: how their daughter's name is Ivy?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: Her actual name is like Evictus. And so they're calling
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: her Ivy as in like the letters I and then V.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Not like her name is Ivy. Why Ivy? Like these
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: people are just stupid. Rich people.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 5: That's insane. They're like, oh yeah, blood, get it?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: It's just all kind of plays into the questions and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: the characters and what's real and what's not. Like every
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: little decision they make. I mean, naming your child's not
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: a little decision, but like, yeah, that's her name.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, gosh. And I'm sure years in the future, Ivy
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: will have A documentary.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, the kids are the biggest sadness about the whole...
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: It's just sad that there's kids involved with people that
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: are questionable.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: Anyways.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: And there is, I mean, a lot to say about
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: this movie. I love how I just kind of put
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: a little note and then you were not the only one, Rima,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: who jumped in and said, okay, wait, I want to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: go see it.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: And it's caused a lot of conversation because it is,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: it's complicated. Going back to that, it is complicated. But yeah,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Loved having you.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: The listeners can find me behind the scenes at Sminty.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: If you want to say anything to me, you can
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: email Sminty. Yes.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: I am on.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: I'm around town.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: You can't really find me. You can go to my website.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Rima's Mysterious. I'm a little mysterious. No, no. I have
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: a website.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: It's rimamade.com. I like movies a lot. I watch a
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: lot of them. If you want to find my letterbox,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: I'm on there. But you have to find it. I
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: tell you what it is. It's worth it.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: The review. Rima sent us the review for this movie.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: It's like a scavenger hunt for Rima.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Great. The first one.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much. But yes, just very happy to
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: be here. Happy to talk with you guys. And this
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: was super fun.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: And fun. I look forward to next time. In the meantime, listeners,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: you can email us if you would like at hello
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: at stuffonevertoldyou.com. You can find us on Blue Sky at
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: MomStuffPodcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuffonevertoldyou. We're also
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau. And
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: your books. Thanks, as always, to our super producer, Rima.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: Hey, thank you.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: You are welcome. Thank you.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: And our executive producer, Maya. And thanks to you for listening.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: favorite shows.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: We didn't talk about...