Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KOHBERGER BACK IN COURT AS IDAHO BRINGS BACK FIRING SQUAD

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KOHBERGER BACK IN COURT AS IDAHO BRINGS BACK FIRING SQUAD · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Brian Coburger now pointing the
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Speaker 1: finger at another home invader with a ski mask and
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Speaker 1: a knife. Coburger back in court as Idaho brings back
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Speaker 1: the firing squad. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Ranie's called and she was very frantic.
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Speaker 3: And she was asking me if I had talked to Kaylee.
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Speaker 3: Katie's follows directly, voice found circling Maddie.
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Speaker 2: Nobody's answering. It's ring ringing, Rightie ringing.
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Speaker 3: To return on the TV, and then we see live
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Speaker 3: news coverage and gives out on pat hero. Kaylee and
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Speaker 3: Maddie are both dead a quadrille homicide.
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Speaker 1: Idaho lawmakers so moved by the slaughter of four beautiful
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Speaker 1: University Idaho students they are bringing back the firing squad
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Speaker 1: is a potential first choice of execution and death penalty cases.
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Speaker 1: This as we learn that Brian Coburger's defense is actually
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Speaker 1: going to try pointing the finger at another masked home
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Speaker 1: invader with a knife.
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Speaker 4: Listen, Carl, where did you see this person?
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Speaker 5: I was asleep and then I woke up me and
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Speaker 5: it was just me and Sadie home at the time,
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Speaker 5: and we both lived on in the basement and my
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Speaker 5: door was closed. I heard my door open, and I
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Speaker 5: looked over and someone was wearing a ski mask and
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Speaker 5: had a knife like this, ok, And so I like
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Speaker 5: kicked the out of their stomach and screamed super loud,
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Speaker 5: and they like flew back into my closet and then
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Speaker 5: ran out my door and up the stairs.
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Speaker 6: That almost makesually think that somebody was specifically targeting that person,
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Speaker 6: you know what I mean, if they went to a
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Speaker 6: specific room and would know how to get into this place.
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, did you just hear what this female
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Speaker 1: victim says? This was just a few months before the
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Speaker 1: deadly slang of four University Idaho's students, and the similarities
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Speaker 1: are overwhelming. Now, what's the defense going to do with this?
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Speaker 1: They're going to say, Oh, that guy, some of the
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Speaker 1: dude did it, and it's that guy, because look at
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Speaker 1: the similarities. Here straight out to Sidney Summer, joining us
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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, the victim, the female
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Speaker 1: victim with another female roommate, asleep with a multi tiered
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Speaker 1: in a multi tiered structure, living down in the basement,
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Speaker 1: door close. All of the things I'm emphasizing right now,
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Speaker 1: Sydney are direct similarities to the Idaho slags. I heard
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Speaker 1: my door open, like the Idaho victims did. I looked over.
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Speaker 1: Someone was wearing a ski mask like allegedly Coburger, wearing
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Speaker 1: a mask. He had a knife like Coburger allegedly had
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Speaker 1: a knife. I screamed. They flew back and ran out
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Speaker 1: my door and onto the stairs like in the Idaho case.
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Speaker 1: The officer. It makes me think someone specifically targeting that person,
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Speaker 1: like they went to a specific room and would know
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Speaker 1: how to get into this place. Sydney, the similarities are stunning.
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Speaker 1: Tell me about the home invasion the other home invasion fancy.
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Speaker 7: You're absolutely correct, and this happened in the early morning
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Speaker 7: hours again, just like we saw over a year later.
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Speaker 7: Also in this area of Idaho and Washington. The houses
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Speaker 7: seem very similar. So these girls lived in a basement apartment.
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Speaker 7: It's kind of a weird unit. It's not like you
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Speaker 7: would just walk up to the front door and expect
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Speaker 7: a bedroom on the second floor. You know it's a basement.
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Speaker 7: So this video shows police searching this oddly built house.
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Speaker 7: You can see that basement door down there right there,
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Speaker 7: and there's windows all over this building in odd places.
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Speaker 7: It's extremely similar. For Nancy, it's.
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Speaker 1: Striking and you know what you just said, said that
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Speaker 1: striking a cord another court in similarities. And I spent
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Speaker 1: much of my career looking at prior transactions and comparing
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Speaker 1: them to the case in Chief in order to prove
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Speaker 1: to a jury modus operadi, method of operation, course of conduct,
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Speaker 1: how it was affected in that case directly matches how
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Speaker 1: it's affected in the Case in Chief, frame of mind,
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Speaker 1: and other words. Scheme coming in the middle of the night,
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Speaker 1: armed with a knife onto female victims, multiple victims in
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Speaker 1: the same multichurch structure with a face covering. It sounds
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Speaker 1: just like Coburger. Joining me right now is Chris McDonough.
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Speaker 1: You know him well, Director Coldcase's Foundation, former homicide detective
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Speaker 1: and has visited the crime scene multiple times. You can
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Speaker 1: see him as the star of the interview room on YouTube.
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Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, this is what I'm telling you, man. I'm
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Speaker 1: telling you either A that is Brian Coburger in the
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Speaker 1: other home invasion, or B the defense is going to
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Speaker 1: use the other home invasion as their defense, claiming that's
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Speaker 1: the guy that did it not Brian Coberger. Hey, Chris McDonough,
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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to more of this pullman
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Speaker 1: PD body cam as the responding officer is talking to
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Speaker 1: the victim. Listen.
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Speaker 5: Sure, that's the one thing I noticed. I couldn't say
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Speaker 5: for sure, but I don't think either really.
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Speaker 7: Side.
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Speaker 8: So you're saying, like a ski mask, any glasses?
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Speaker 5: Okay, it was a burgundy ski mask, so I think
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Speaker 5: they were wearing gloves.
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Speaker 8: So did you hear them say they.
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Speaker 1: Didn't say a thing? They didn't say anything.
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Speaker 8: Did they grunt or moan or exclaim or cry when
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Speaker 8: you kicked them?
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Speaker 2: Just silence?
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Speaker 1: Pay dirt, Chris McData. While right now Coburger is not
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Speaker 1: named as a POI suspect in any way in that
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Speaker 1: home invasion, the similarities, the similarities are overwhelming. Did you
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Speaker 1: hear that the purp not wearing glasses, wearing gloves? And significantly,
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Speaker 1: I'm when I have to shrink on this silent throughout
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Speaker 1: the attack, jump in, Chris.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, there's no doubt, Nancy, that those similarities have got
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Speaker 9: to be investigative considerations, especially after you know the brutal
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Speaker 9: murder here of the four college students and if this
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Speaker 9: is what we would call a pretty incident to that
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Speaker 9: particular you know, murder, then you know you're going to
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Speaker 9: have to start with those victims and kind of re
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Speaker 9: engineer it from there and canvas the neighborhood and then
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Speaker 9: see if you can match the similarities to the suspect
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Speaker 9: in custody ie allegedly Brian Colberger.
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Speaker 1: I mean, we've said it over and over and over
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Speaker 1: that could this possibly be Brian Coberger's first offense? Do
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Speaker 1: you go from zero to one twenty mph overnight? Many
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Speaker 1: people argue, no, is this the smoking gun? According to
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Speaker 1: police right now, they're not saying Coburger had anything to
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Speaker 1: do with this previous home invasion. Listen to more of
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Speaker 1: that body cam.
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Speaker 8: So the windows come open, but there is no touch
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Speaker 8: marks on the glass, and like all the cobwebs are intact.
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Speaker 7: Anything.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, so maybe.
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Speaker 7: They just unlocked it.
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Speaker 2: Maybe they don't be easier to get out of that way, Yeah.
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Speaker 7: Just go up the stairs and night. Yeah, I guarantee
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Speaker 7: you they were not expecting that.
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Speaker 1: Okay, right there even more similarities. Did you hear that
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Speaker 1: there's no touch marks, All the cobwebs are intact. So
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Speaker 1: this person ends up going up the stairs, just as
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Speaker 1: in the Idaho Sleighs. As of right now, we don't
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Speaker 1: have any indication of any fingerprints or touch marks. And
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Speaker 1: there's more. Listen, I'm wondering why they didn't come in
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Speaker 1: the room.
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Speaker 8: Because, yeah, so we were talking about that and may
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Speaker 8: so she thought you had a television.
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Speaker 2: I did my teacher that I cad from outside your room,
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Speaker 2: So maybe.
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Speaker 8: They might knew that. Between between the light and the sound,
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Speaker 8: they probably assumed that you were away.
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Speaker 1: It was a week significant. You hear the victim talking saying,
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Speaker 1: I wonder why they didn't come into my room. My
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Speaker 1: room is closer. We had the same issue in the
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Speaker 1: Idaho Slighs, Chris McDonough, because you had uh Dylan Mortenson downstairs, remember,
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Speaker 1: and many people wonder, well, why didn't you go into
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Speaker 1: that room first? Same thinking. These two perps have the
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Speaker 1: same thought process going why didn't they go into that door?
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Speaker 1: And then also you hear the victim's roommates saying, I
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Speaker 1: was wide awake. I was just lying in bed. Did
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Speaker 1: he know I was awake? Clearly, the state believes that
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Speaker 1: Brian Coberger had been monitoring the victims' movements. Did he
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Speaker 1: know they had just ordered food, and that some of
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Speaker 1: them may be between a sleep and a wake in
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Speaker 1: that groggy state. It's a fingerprint ID Chris McDonough.
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Speaker 9: Nancy, and I think, you know, one of the most
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Speaker 9: interesting similarities to this situation is obviously the fact that
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Speaker 9: the perpetrator had a knife, and that's a very personal
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Speaker 9: titled weapon that would be utilized. But there's going to
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Speaker 9: be another hurdle though, that they're going to have to overcome.
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Speaker 9: That's going to be obviously the physical description of the
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Speaker 9: suspect and the fact that the victim attacked the suspect
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Speaker 9: and he cowered and ran. Somebody who has the frame
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Speaker 9: of mind, you know, to commit a homicide straightforward would
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Speaker 9: have taken that as a control issue and he probably
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Speaker 9: would have overwhelmed that victim.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 8: Two.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, a renow psycho analyst out
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Speaker 1: of the LA jurisdiction, author of a deal Breaker. You
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Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock, she said, doctor Bethany
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Speaker 1: Marshall dot com, doctor Bethany in your world. These similarities
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Speaker 1: are startling. And again police are not saying that coburger
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Speaker 1: affected this home invasion just a few miles away from
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Speaker 1: the University of Idaho slave a few months before the SLAGH.
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Speaker 1: But look at the similarities, doctor Bethany, and in your world,
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Speaker 1: I find it very significant that both perps remained silent. Again, Bethany,
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Speaker 1: there's only two choices, Bethany. Now you're coming at it
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Speaker 1: from your angle. I'm coming at it from mine. What
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Speaker 1: if anything is probative to me as I prepare a
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Speaker 1: case like this number one, either it is Coburger that
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Speaker 1: performed that home invasion, or it's not Coburger and the
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Speaker 1: defense is going to use it as one of their
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Speaker 1: chief defenses. Some other dude did it, and that's the dude.
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Speaker 1: What about both perps remaining silent?
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Speaker 10: Nancy, serial killers practice for years before they work up
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Speaker 10: the nerve to commit a crime. Okay, So Cochburger's whole
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Speaker 10: academic career was a form of practicing. He took crime classes.
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Speaker 10: He was a you know, it's like a teacher's aid
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Speaker 10: in a crime class. He went to bars, he hit
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Speaker 10: on women. Serial killing is an obsession. So Coburger probably
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Speaker 10: thought about this four months years. It was an obsession.
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Speaker 10: He in his mind thought out what kind of a
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Speaker 10: house he wanted to enter, probably spent hours trying to
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Speaker 10: find victims. He liked certain personalities, certain relationship configurations within
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Speaker 10: the house. Perhaps in his fantasy life, he was going
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Speaker 10: to go to the second floor and both crimes, kill
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Speaker 10: two victims, and then come back to to the ones
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Speaker 10: who are more accessible so they could hear the screaming
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Speaker 10: of the other victims as an act of sadism. The silence,
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Speaker 10: I think is that he was preparing himself for the
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Speaker 10: crime in respect to becoming emboldened the first time the
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Speaker 10: purp ran away, if that was Coburger. The second time,
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Speaker 10: he was probably prepared to be kicked, so he got
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Speaker 10: his courage up to commit the crime in a second,
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Speaker 10: second location.
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Speaker 2: I don't like he did a white color crime.
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Speaker 1: This isn't a.
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Speaker 11: Whole colored crime.
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Speaker 1: This is people you work your.
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Speaker 2: Whole life to get them to go to college and
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Speaker 2: then they get killed.
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Speaker 4: Whether leave that night.
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Speaker 11: This guy like he just like traded insider trading with
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Speaker 11: his own company stocks.
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Speaker 1: It's not white Cole will another home invasion just a
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Speaker 1: few months before the four Beautiful University, Idaho students were
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Speaker 1: slaughtered in their own beds have anything to do with
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Speaker 1: the Coburger death penalty case. This as Idaho plans to
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Speaker 1: bring back the firing squad as a primary means of execution,
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Speaker 1: hopefully just in time for Coburger's conviction and sentencing. We'll see.
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Speaker 1: And what does Colt mom Lori Valow have to do
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Speaker 1: with Brian Coburger? Plenty, all of this with the backdrop
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Speaker 1: of Coburger's defense claiming the death penalty is inhumane because
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Speaker 1: it forces Coburger to wait on death row and worry. Okay,
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Speaker 1: we'll get to that, but first to this home invasion
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Speaker 1: that occurred just a few months before the quadruple slagh. Now,
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Speaker 1: look again at this bodycam video we obtainfle Pullman p D. Listen.
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Speaker 5: Sure that's the one thing I noticed. I couldn't say
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Speaker 5: for sure, but I don't think either really side.
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Speaker 8: So you're saying, like a ski mask in your grasses?
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Speaker 5: Okay, sure it was a burgundy ski mask, so I
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Speaker 5: think they were wearing gloves.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, So did you hear them say?
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Speaker 1: They didn't say a thing? They didn't say anything.
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Speaker 8: Did they grunt or moan or exclaim or cry when
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Speaker 8: you kicked them? Just silence?
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Speaker 1: Silence? Joining me? Is Scott Iiker founding member of the
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Speaker 1: FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, Scott, thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with US police officer from her homicide to take dove
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Speaker 1: with Norfolk, Virginia PD. Scott. The likelihood that two perps
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Speaker 1: will enter a multi tiered structure with multiple female victims
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Speaker 1: inside around the same time of the night, a few
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Speaker 1: miles apart, a few months apart, with the same INMO
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Speaker 1: with a face mask, with a knife. What are the odds? Right?
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Speaker 1: I know you're not a statistician, so let me talk
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Speaker 1: to you about the fact that neither of these perps
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Speaker 1: that we know I've yet left behind fingerprints or really
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Speaker 1: any DNA other than what we know about on the
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Speaker 1: knife sheath. How likely is that? I like er, if
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Speaker 1: it's not the same person.
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Speaker 4: I think it is the same person. I agree with
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Speaker 4: Betany that you know Cyria Tailers. I got to practice
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Speaker 4: their situations. This was an attempt, he got boiled by kicked,
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Speaker 4: and then all the similarities that you guys just talked about.
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Speaker 4: It really brings that as a detective and homicide detective
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Speaker 4: and an FBI agent, we look for those similarities between
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Speaker 4: crimes to connect them, and this is definitely one of
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Speaker 4: those that seems just like a prior attempt that was spoiled.
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Speaker 4: Thank God to.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kennel Crowns joining a Chief Medical Examiner Tyrant County.
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Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
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Speaker 1: Medicine at TCU. Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: You know I have tried, investigated and investigated countless homicide.
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Speaker 1: I don't know how many. Usually knifing someone to death
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Speaker 1: is not the mode of death. It's not the ceod
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Speaker 1: cause of death. There, I would say more gunshot wounds
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Speaker 1: and more asphyxiations, more vehicular manslaughters. Knifing someone to death
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Speaker 1: I think is a more unique cood.
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Speaker 12: What do you think, well, I would agree with Thatually,
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Speaker 12: what we see with homicides are gunshot wounds, specifically nine millimeters.
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Speaker 12: With stabbings, you have to get up close and personal.
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Speaker 12: It's usually a domestic or someone that knows the victim
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Speaker 12: or you know and has been discussed serial killers. Strangulations again, too,
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Speaker 12: are not as common as stab wounds. So you know,
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Speaker 12: when you look at the causes of death, gunshot wound
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Speaker 12: far out weighs.
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Speaker 1: Are you saying asphyxiation is more or less common? Because
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Speaker 1: in my expert in my experience, knife attacks are less
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Speaker 1: common than asphyxiation. When you look at all of the homicides,
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Speaker 1: you've got bludgeoning, which by far beats out knifing, You've
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Speaker 1: got asphyxiation, which I believe beats out knifing, and of
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Speaker 1: course gunshot wounds as you let off with that by
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Speaker 1: far beats out knifings.
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Speaker 12: So my personal experience, I've seen, of course the majority
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Speaker 12: of gunshovelans, but I've seen more stabbings than strangulations, because
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Speaker 12: strangulation you really got to get up in there and
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Speaker 12: to strangle them. So it's so a weapon as usually
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Speaker 12: trumps out using your bare hands. So I would say
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Speaker 12: stabbing is not as common, and a spree stabbing as
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Speaker 12: you're seeing in this type of situation is very uncommon
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Speaker 12: where they stab multiple individuals at the same time.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to take that pathology and apply it
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Speaker 1: to the current case and the current similar transaction we're discussing,
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Speaker 1: which would be the previous home invasion. And again Coburger
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Speaker 1: not named as a POI or suspect in that case,
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Speaker 1: but either he did it and he is the similar
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Speaker 1: or he didn't do it. And the defense is going
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Speaker 1: to use it against the state. What I'm getting at,
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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crown's is the likelihood of a spree stabbing
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Speaker 1: where a goes into a multieer structure around the same
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Speaker 1: time of the night, a few miles apart, planning to
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Speaker 1: attack more than one female with a knife. I find
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Speaker 1: that highly coincidental.
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Speaker 12: I agree with you, it's very odd, and it's I
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Speaker 12: think he got spooked and then moved on to the
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Speaker 12: next house that he had been casing, you know, you
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Speaker 12: kind of look at For example, BTK was another criminology student.
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Speaker 12: He had one of his stories as he was casing
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Speaker 12: a victim and something occurred and he got spooked. He
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Speaker 12: moved on and then waited and came back again. So
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Speaker 12: if it could be the similarities are very early similar.
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Speaker 12: He could have just gotten spooked by that first person.
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Speaker 8: And moved on.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me is a veteran
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Speaker 1: trial lawyer, Brian Stewart Attorney Parker maconcle Brian, thank you
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Speaker 1: for being with us. Brian, Can we talk very quickly
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Speaker 1: about the introduction under the Constitution of what we call
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Speaker 1: similar transactions in this case, really a fingerprint crime. The
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Speaker 1: only difference is those two female victims didn't lose their lives.
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Speaker 1: Everything else is startlingly similar. What do you think, Well.
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Speaker 11: It seems entirely, you know, speculative, what to whether or
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Speaker 11: not this person is Brian Kohlberger. But it's likely the
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Speaker 11: same person. But there's no question the defense would want
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Speaker 11: to use this to undermine the prosecution's case, saying that
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Speaker 11: there's someone else out there. But in my mind, it
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Speaker 11: shouldn't come in because it's speculative, and I think that
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Speaker 11: the prosecution is going to have a good argument to
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Speaker 11: keep it out.
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Speaker 1: To Sidy Suner joining me, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: can we talk about the home invasion? Okay, how far
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Speaker 1: away was it from the quadruple murder scene?
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Speaker 7: Nancy minutes, ten minutes. And another thing that I wanted
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Speaker 7: to mention, the victim in the home invasion was also
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Speaker 7: a waitress, so she was no longer a student, but
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Speaker 7: she was waitressing and still living with roommates who were
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Speaker 7: in college. I found that also really striking that some
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Speaker 7: of the Idaho college victims a year later waitresses at
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Speaker 7: a restaurant. So that's an interesting possibility. And as you
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Speaker 7: were talking through your theories. I came up with one
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Speaker 7: of my own.
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Speaker 1: What if Brian.
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Speaker 7: Koberger took inspiration from this? What if he did is
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Speaker 7: research and it's trying to pass as this original home
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Speaker 7: invader with a knife.
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Speaker 1: You know, Sydney, do you remember when we were in
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Speaker 1: Idaho and we went to the Great Restaurant where at
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Speaker 1: least one of the victims, where others hung out there,
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Speaker 1: and we watched people coming in and now there's a
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Speaker 1: steady flow of college students, non college students, and we
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Speaker 1: watch and got that horrible eerie feeling that Coburger had
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Speaker 1: come in and out of the restaurant as he watched
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Speaker 1: the victims. And now you're telling me that in the
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Speaker 1: other home invasion the victim one of them was a waitress.
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Speaker 7: That is absolutely correct. She worked at Zoey's in Pullman, Washington.
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Speaker 7: It's a cafe, so similar restaurant. Again, it's very striking.
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Speaker 7: I mean, Scott Iiker, don't you see where this is going.
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Speaker 7: The defense is going to win either.
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Speaker 1: Way on this because they're going to say, ay, it's
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Speaker 1: not him number one, and that's the guy that did it.
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Speaker 1: And if Coburger did do the other home invasion. It
23:50
Speaker 1: can't be brought in as a similar transaction unless it
23:53
Speaker 1: can be proven he did the other home invasion. So
23:57
Speaker 1: the state right now is hogtie on this.
24:00
Speaker 7: I agree.
24:01
Speaker 4: It sounds like because of the short time that home invasion,
24:06
Speaker 4: you guy comes in, he kicks him, he falls down
24:09
Speaker 4: and leaves, But he probably didn't leave like a knife
24:13
Speaker 4: like he did in this in the quadruplehamicide. So what
24:17
Speaker 4: evidence do they have to show that that prior incident
24:21
Speaker 4: was was Coburg. That's going to cause a problem, I think,
24:25
Speaker 4: and I think both ways. Hopefully it can't be brought
24:28
Speaker 4: in from either side.
24:33
Speaker 11: The person who did did drun looked at one of
24:36
Speaker 11: the victims and said, I'm here to help me. If
24:38
Speaker 11: that's not malice, that's the most type of evil that
24:41
Speaker 11: you could ever hear.
24:42
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be rewarded with the.
24:44
Speaker 2: Suit and a first cherka every time.
24:48
Speaker 4: That's why that's wild.
24:51
Speaker 1: And somehow Cale mom Laurie Valo rears her ugly head
24:57
Speaker 1: in the middle of all of this. What does she
25:00
Speaker 1: have to do with the Brian Coburger quadruple murder prosecution?
25:05
Speaker 1: Here she is in court.
25:06
Speaker 13: Listen nation, So the defense we keep filing motions for
25:11
Speaker 13: discovery since we don't know if it's some kind of
25:14
Speaker 13: strategy of the state that they're holding back this actual
25:18
Speaker 13: evidence of dispirit conspiracy and hopes that what the defendant
25:21
Speaker 13: won't have time to prepare proper defense against the evidence
25:25
Speaker 13: that comes forward at the last minute. This court has
25:28
Speaker 13: denied every motion the defense has filed to acquire this evidence.
25:31
Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, what's she climbing a mental defect?
25:35
Speaker 1: Did you hear her reeling off the law and the
25:38
Speaker 1: facts she's representing her case in another murder related case.
25:44
Speaker 1: We got that from our friends at Eastidaho News dot com. Yes,
25:49
Speaker 1: somehow Calman Lauri Valo has insinuated herself into the Brian
25:55
Speaker 1: Coburger case listen.
25:56
Speaker 14: Coberger's defense appears to be taking a page out of
25:59
Speaker 14: Lorie valoed Dabell's trial, where Judge Stephen Boyce removed the
26:03
Speaker 14: death penalty after prosecutors failed to turn over thousands of
26:06
Speaker 14: documents and hundreds of hours of jail phone calls until
26:09
Speaker 14: three weeks before the trial. But the key difference between
26:12
Speaker 14: the cases that val day Bell insisted on a speedy trial,
26:15
Speaker 14: while Cober has waived that quick timeline with more than
26:19
Speaker 14: six months remaining until trial, Judge Hibler has plenty of
26:22
Speaker 14: other remedies available before taking such a drastic measure.
26:25
Speaker 1: Straight out to Sydney Sumner Crime online dot Com investigative
26:28
Speaker 1: reporter Sydney, what does call it, mom, Lori Valo have
26:32
Speaker 1: to do with Brian Coburger.
26:34
Speaker 7: So, Nancy, What the defense is arguing in cober Eer's
26:37
Speaker 7: case is that the state's expert witness list was not complete.
26:42
Speaker 7: They're saying that it's too vague, it's overbroad, not everyone
26:46
Speaker 7: is named. So they are threatening to try and get
26:49
Speaker 7: this death penalty stricken again if that expert witness list
26:55
Speaker 7: is not amended. So that's exactly what happened in Lori
26:59
Speaker 7: Valo's case. The judge who saw this huge failure to
27:04
Speaker 7: turn over evidence to the defense with only three weeks
27:08
Speaker 7: away from trial, really had no choice but to employ
27:12
Speaker 7: this extreme remedy of taking the death penalty off the table.
27:16
Speaker 7: There was no way the defense could possibly sit.
27:19
Speaker 2: Through all of that evidence at the last second.
27:21
Speaker 1: Okay, Brian Stewart with me veteran trial lawyer, Brian, I
27:24
Speaker 1: don't want to go deaf cone four on this get
27:26
Speaker 1: too far in the weeds. But the problem and call
27:29
Speaker 1: it mantlauriy Valo's case, she had a speedy a speedy
27:32
Speaker 1: trial demand, and if the state didn't try it within
27:35
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time, which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,
27:39
Speaker 1: there would be a total acquittal. Repeat, if the state
27:42
Speaker 1: didn't try it within a certain period of time, there
27:44
Speaker 1: would be an outright acquittal. So the deal struck was
27:50
Speaker 1: the judge took the DP death penalty off the table.
27:52
Speaker 1: We don't have that problem here, but the defense is
27:56
Speaker 1: trying it. They're saying, because the expert witness list is
27:59
Speaker 1: not completely we don't have a trial for months and
28:01
Speaker 1: months and months to go, that the DP should be
28:04
Speaker 1: taken off the table. That's what they're doing right now.
28:07
Speaker 15: Agree to disagree, Well, in this situation, the constitutional protections
28:11
Speaker 15: that we have are more important than any one case,
28:13
Speaker 15: and so if the prosecution didn't turn over this information
28:18
Speaker 15: in charge that they should have turned over, it's in
28:21
Speaker 15: all of our best interests that evidence be excluded.
28:23
Speaker 11: Even if it damaged damages the prosecution's case in this situation, you.
28:28
Speaker 1: Know, speaking of the death building in this case, everybody
28:31
Speaker 1: sit down for this. The latest defense argument. You may
28:34
Speaker 1: need to lay down for this one. Listen to the
28:38
Speaker 1: death penalty argument made by the defense.
28:41
Speaker 7: I don't believe that our constitution.
28:45
Speaker 16: Allows for us to move forward and make him sit
28:49
Speaker 16: on death row for years and years and years.
28:53
Speaker 1: The way Idaho is doing it right now.
28:56
Speaker 7: Isn't really working.
28:57
Speaker 1: It's not a realistic option.
29:00
Speaker 16: I think to have him sit on death row and say,
29:03
Speaker 16: Idaho's going to figure out how to kill you at
29:05
Speaker 16: some point in the future in a way that isn't
29:08
Speaker 16: cruel and unusual and in violation of your rights, I
29:12
Speaker 16: just don't think that the constitutional protections allow that to happen.
29:16
Speaker 1: Really. Chris mcdona, former homicide to take the start of
29:19
Speaker 1: the interview room. What is she saying? Well, if you
29:23
Speaker 1: kill him now, I'm fine with the death penalty, but
29:26
Speaker 1: if you make him wait, tick tick, that's inhumane. Am
29:30
Speaker 1: I hearing her? Can she hear herself?
29:32
Speaker 9: Yeah? Can you believe it? Nancy? I mean, can you
29:35
Speaker 9: picture the founding fathers, you know, shigning all the documents
29:39
Speaker 9: that have made this country great? Thinking, you know, if
29:42
Speaker 9: there's going to be a guy named Brian Kolberger who's
29:45
Speaker 9: going to have to sit for quite some time, and
29:46
Speaker 9: the state's going to have to figure it out. It's
29:49
Speaker 9: just ludicrous, just a really gallow argument.
29:53
Speaker 1: I mean, Chris mcdona, I'm looking at my notes that
29:56
Speaker 1: I took on Ann Taylor's argument. She's a really good lawyer.
29:59
Speaker 1: I mean, she's grasping a straws here, but what can
30:01
Speaker 1: she do? And my big night was ha ha, waiting
30:05
Speaker 1: equals cruel unusual punishment under the Constitution. And again ha ha,
30:10
Speaker 1: So I guess she's okay. If they kill them immediately,
30:12
Speaker 1: that would be the argument. But that's not all. Listen
30:16
Speaker 1: to more of Taylor's argument.
30:18
Speaker 16: We think that the court ought to strike the death
30:21
Speaker 16: penalty in this case and not allow the case to
30:24
Speaker 16: go forward as a death penalty case because Idaho does
30:27
Speaker 16: not have a current means of executing anybody. When somebody
30:33
Speaker 16: sits on death row and there's no real means of
30:37
Speaker 16: executing them, that is dehumanizing to that person.
30:41
Speaker 17: That's similar say, there's no means under Idaho law. The
30:48
Speaker 17: method of execution is lethal injection, and if unavailable, then
30:53
Speaker 17: the firing squad. You rely significantly on the idea that
30:57
Speaker 17: lethal objection injection is not available. Based upon the quote
31:01
Speaker 17: unquote watched execution of mister Creech.
31:05
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, please help me. Okay, not in a
31:09
Speaker 1: professional capacity, of course, but doctor Bethany, she is now saying,
31:15
Speaker 1: Coburger is going to have to wait to find out
31:17
Speaker 1: how he's going to be executed. What about the victims' families,
31:22
Speaker 1: Just hold on just one moment. They know how their
31:26
Speaker 1: daughters and son were murdered. They were knifed to death,
31:32
Speaker 1: they were slaughtered like animals in a slaughterhouse. Okay, but
31:37
Speaker 1: yet Coburger getting three hots and a cot paid for
31:41
Speaker 1: by me and you, that's inhumane compared to what the victims'
31:46
Speaker 1: families go through the rest of their life.
31:48
Speaker 10: Nancy Coldberger loves to wait. He's spent his whole life waiting,
31:52
Speaker 10: his whole life waiting to become a serial killer. Waiting
31:56
Speaker 10: is not a problem for him. And when you think
31:58
Speaker 10: about the psychology of the serial killers, they are so
32:02
Speaker 10: filled and full of sexually deviant, sadistic fantasies that often
32:09
Speaker 10: there are long periods of time between actual slayings because
32:14
Speaker 10: they are very satisfied with their fantasy life. In some ways,
32:18
Speaker 10: this is like a dream come true for him. He
32:20
Speaker 10: doesn't have to work, he doesn't have to support himself.
32:24
Speaker 10: He can just fantasize all day long.
32:28
Speaker 7: This is not.
32:29
Speaker 1: Then you get us so much more delicately than I
32:32
Speaker 1: would fantasizing what is going to do? Sit behind bars
32:37
Speaker 1: and masturbate to the memory of what he did if
32:41
Speaker 1: in fact he's proving guilty. I think that's what you're saying.
32:46
Speaker 1: You know what, doctor Bethany, I appreciate your delicate nature,
32:50
Speaker 1: but we are talking about their murder of four young idahosts.
32:54
Speaker 1: You its brutally literally butchered like animals and Sidney so
33:00
Speaker 1: i'mner or investigative reporter. Let me just clarify one thing.
33:03
Speaker 1: The defense is whining about what all another killer Thomas
33:06
Speaker 1: Creech went through before the DP. Bottom line, they couldn't
33:11
Speaker 1: find a vein. I never had a nurse in the
33:14
Speaker 1: hospital the whole time I was in there after delivery
33:18
Speaker 1: that could find a vein. Okay, it happens all the time.
33:22
Speaker 1: That's the problem. They couldn't find his vein.
33:25
Speaker 7: That is in fact what they are complaining about. Yep,
33:28
Speaker 7: he must have been dehydrated that morning, just like so
33:31
Speaker 7: many people are in the hospital on a day to
33:33
Speaker 7: day basis, and that is their argument that lethal injection
33:37
Speaker 7: is not available.
33:39
Speaker 14: Coberger's defense team has hired cell phone experts SIREE to
33:43
Speaker 14: testify and support of Coberger's alibi. The former police officer
33:46
Speaker 14: and founder of z X bases his analysis on the
33:50
Speaker 14: pings that a cell phone sends to a nearby tower
33:52
Speaker 14: using the software tracks, but many have questioned the reliability
33:56
Speaker 14: have raised data. Many other experts say Trax's methodology is
33:59
Speaker 14: not as in science, and Colorado judge has even banned
34:03
Speaker 14: prosecutors from using the software in their cases.
34:05
Speaker 1: Scott Iiker joining US founder member FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team,
34:11
Speaker 1: we now know that cellular and digital data is a
34:15
Speaker 1: big bone of contingent in the trial. What's happening, Scott.
34:20
Speaker 4: Well, we know that the police department, with the assistance
34:23
Speaker 4: of the FBI and other law enforcement agencies, got data
34:27
Speaker 4: from mister Colburger's phone. Not only did they get it
34:31
Speaker 4: on the night of the Adrew Bahama side, but they
34:35
Speaker 4: also got it prior to that time and afterwards, so
34:39
Speaker 4: we can see that information. What they have found is
34:43
Speaker 4: that on the night of the a Drew Bahama side,
34:46
Speaker 4: he had turned his phone off. He turned it off
34:49
Speaker 4: for a good amount of time. I think it was
34:51
Speaker 4: for about two and a half hours. And what they
34:56
Speaker 4: also did see is that he had left his house
34:58
Speaker 4: in Pullman and gone so else but then he turned
35:02
Speaker 4: his phone off while he's supposedly committing the crime, and
35:07
Speaker 4: then on the way back home turned his phone back on.
35:10
Speaker 4: We see this all the time in criminals that don't
35:13
Speaker 4: want their phone to be tracked to this scene of
35:15
Speaker 4: the crime. We did this in bank robbery cases. We'd
35:19
Speaker 4: follow the guys days before where they go scout out
35:22
Speaker 4: the bank, leaving their phones on, and then the day
35:25
Speaker 4: of the crime turn it off, thinking that that wouldn't
35:29
Speaker 4: show that they're there. But we could see that pattern
35:31
Speaker 4: of life that's going to be helpful to the prosecution.
35:35
Speaker 1: And now the Amazon order of the knife we believe
35:40
Speaker 1: is the murder weapon. More analysis reveals more evidence. Listen,
35:46
Speaker 1: this is the search warrant. These ASIN numbers are basically
35:53
Speaker 1: inventory control numbers for Amazon. This is the Amazon ASIN
35:58
Speaker 1: that I put in. This is the product that came up.
36:02
Speaker 1: And the other search warrants started to chase the receipts
36:07
Speaker 1: to Amazon, to Walmart.
36:12
Speaker 9: For and the banks. They started pushing search warrants out
36:16
Speaker 9: to the banks, and they were looking for a money
36:20
Speaker 9: trail that purchased potentially a weapon like this.
36:24
Speaker 1: Okay, joining me, christ madonnad from the interview room, and
36:27
Speaker 1: that was from the interview room on YouTube. You know,
36:31
Speaker 1: Christma Donna, you and I talk a lot about what
36:33
Speaker 1: one single piece of evidence can prove that it can
36:36
Speaker 1: prove so many different things, not just that Coburger ordered
36:39
Speaker 1: the murder weapon according to the state, but your analysis
36:43
Speaker 1: reveals so much more evidence in a nutshell.
36:46
Speaker 9: What so, Nancy, that that could be gold. You know,
36:49
Speaker 9: to your point right, that Amazon number just think of
36:52
Speaker 9: it as like a ven number for a car. It's
36:56
Speaker 9: a product number that every like three hundred and fifty
36:59
Speaker 9: million products that go through Amazon have and those numbers
37:03
Speaker 9: are unique to each of those products. So once they
37:08
Speaker 9: discovered that knife that came up, then they're going to
37:13
Speaker 9: chase the money on that, and that money trail in
37:16
Speaker 9: of itself will be able. If you can get a
37:19
Speaker 9: receipt on that, then that's going to give you time dates,
37:23
Speaker 9: you know, those kinds of things, and then you can
37:26
Speaker 9: really get into the head of Coburger at the time
37:30
Speaker 9: he was making these purchases. So that's going to lead
37:34
Speaker 9: into a whole new direction for the investigation.
37:37
Speaker 1: What kind direction.
37:38
Speaker 9: Well, it'll give you, you know, pre incident behavior, it'll
37:41
Speaker 9: give you his thought process. It will also lead into,
37:47
Speaker 9: you know, the type of you know, why he's purchasing
37:51
Speaker 9: that particular knife. Is there a sexual motivation?
37:54
Speaker 5: Uh?
37:55
Speaker 8: Is there?
37:56
Speaker 5: You know?
37:56
Speaker 9: Going down those lines? So is it a fantasy that
38:02
Speaker 9: he's buying the Schneische Remember that knight is almost a
38:07
Speaker 9: symbol of a phallic symbol in relationship to this type
38:12
Speaker 9: of attack.
38:13
Speaker 1: Because I'm not sure you're going to get that off
38:14
Speaker 1: an Amazon order history, but I trust you.
38:18
Speaker 18: The defense is also moving to suppress Coburger's statements the
38:21
Speaker 18: night of his arrest, which begs the question did the
38:24
Speaker 18: accused quadruple murderer incriminate himself? Coberger's attorneys claim when Coburger
38:29
Speaker 18: was held at gunpoint and had his hands zip tied,
38:32
Speaker 18: he made statements to the officers surrounding him despite not
38:35
Speaker 18: having been read his rights. The defense further once any
38:38
Speaker 18: statements Coburger made in transport and without an attorney present
38:41
Speaker 18: during interrogation at the Monroe County Correctional Facility stricken.
38:45
Speaker 1: The harder the defense fights a particular point, the more
38:49
Speaker 1: damaging and probative it is for the state. Now we
38:53
Speaker 1: are learning the defense is fighting tooth and nail to
38:56
Speaker 1: keep statements out to Sydney Sumner and to get a reporter.
39:01
Speaker 1: What statements they have not been revealed, but we see
39:05
Speaker 1: they're arguing about statements that he made at the time
39:09
Speaker 1: police showed up to the appearance Pocono's home, statements he
39:13
Speaker 1: made in transit, and more so, in order to argue
39:18
Speaker 1: we want these statements to be suppressed. Number one, the
39:21
Speaker 1: statements have to be made, so there are statements, and
39:24
Speaker 1: number two, they have to be something incriminating to the
39:28
Speaker 1: point the defense is fighting to have them suppressed.
39:31
Speaker 7: Get it. You're absolutely correct, Nancy. So we have no
39:34
Speaker 7: idea what Coberger said, but we do know that that
39:37
Speaker 7: was a dynamic entry into the house. The entire family
39:40
Speaker 7: was surrounded by officers, held at gunpoint, So this must
39:44
Speaker 7: have been a very stressful situation. So is he begging
39:47
Speaker 7: for mercy? Is he telling them he is surrendering? Is
39:51
Speaker 7: he admitting some form of guilt just enough of a
39:55
Speaker 7: nugget for someone to twist that in a way to
39:59
Speaker 7: make it incriminals We don't know, but it will be
40:02
Speaker 7: interesting to find out if.
40:04
Speaker 1: That evidence makes it into court. Yeah, and you know
40:06
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonne joining me veteran homicide to take a start
40:09
Speaker 1: of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, it doesn't have
40:13
Speaker 1: to be I didn't do it. It could It could
40:16
Speaker 1: be I was in Hawaii when that happened. It could
40:18
Speaker 1: be I don't know anything about the slave of the
40:21
Speaker 1: force students before the force students have even been mentioned.
40:23
Speaker 1: It could be any number of things that may not
40:27
Speaker 1: be an outright confession but indicate intimate knowledge of the murders.
40:33
Speaker 9: Yeah, and those spontaneous utterances like that are just beautiful
40:38
Speaker 9: because you know that there's no pressure in relationship to
40:43
Speaker 9: the subject, just kind of asking a question. Sometimes they're
40:46
Speaker 9: even questions, right, Nancy, I mean, how many have your
40:49
Speaker 9: dependents have asked the cops questions when they first shook
40:52
Speaker 9: them up, like you know, anybody else arrested? Why why
40:55
Speaker 9: you're arresting me? Those are those are those are great statements.
40:58
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall. When people are trying to
41:01
Speaker 1: lie and they don't have their statement ready, they can
41:06
Speaker 1: say any number of things that are tails that are
41:08
Speaker 1: telling not necessarily an outright confession.
41:11
Speaker 10: You know, Nancy, especially since he's thought so much about this.
41:14
Speaker 10: There's a lot of information rolling around in that head
41:17
Speaker 10: about the crimes, right, how much time he's spent stalking
41:20
Speaker 10: the victims, what time the murder took.
41:23
Speaker 1: Place, how the bodies were left.
41:26
Speaker 10: I mean, the information that could come out of his
41:28
Speaker 10: mouth is endless, and if his anxiety level is high,
41:32
Speaker 10: he's not going to be able to think clearly about
41:36
Speaker 10: what he knows that he shouldn't know.
41:39
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, signing off Goodbye friend,