Transcript

Sharri | 25 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Why what Sky News?
0:04
Speaker 2: This is Sharry Good Evening Tonight on the show, a
0:08
Speaker 2: major intelligence bombshell. Red flags were raised about Bondi shooter
0:14
Speaker 2: Sajed Akram nearly two decades before the Khanneker attack. My
0:19
Speaker 2: exclusive investigation in a moment plus Bondi victim Petermar's final
0:25
Speaker 2: photographs revealed, will show you his last images he took
0:29
Speaker 2: before he was killed. And a new shock poll shows
0:34
Speaker 2: one nation is predicted to become the main opposition party.
0:37
Speaker 2: Ray Hadley will be here and rip into the dire
0:40
Speaker 2: state of the liberals soon. This is a massive show
0:45
Speaker 2: and to start this major bombshell tonight that there were
0:49
Speaker 2: two tip offs to the National Security Hotline about Sajed
0:53
Speaker 2: Akrim in two thousand and seven and twenty fourteen, I
0:58
Speaker 2: can reveal that this place to on the radar of
1:01
Speaker 2: authorities some eighteen years, almost two decades before the Bondai
1:07
Speaker 2: terror attack. The first tip off to the National Security
1:11
Speaker 2: Hotline in two thousand and seven involved his interest in
1:15
Speaker 2: explosive material. The second alert was made around twenty fourteen
1:21
Speaker 2: and involved Akram's interest in Islamic state and potentially travel
1:27
Speaker 2: until This revelation contained in classified files It had previously
1:32
Speaker 2: been reported that the acrams first came to the attention
1:35
Speaker 2: of authorities around twenty nineteen, when ASIO interviewed Sajid as
1:41
Speaker 2: part of an assessment on his son, Navide, who was
1:45
Speaker 2: allegedly associating with extremist figures. Now I've been investigating what
1:50
Speaker 2: was known about the alleged Bondi shooters by intelligence agencies
1:55
Speaker 2: and law enforcement for my book Bondai Terror. My confidential
2:01
Speaker 2: sources tell me that both of the tip offs to
2:04
Speaker 2: the National Security Hotline were received, triaged, and passed on
2:10
Speaker 2: to both ASIO and the Australian Federal Police. It's unclear
2:15
Speaker 2: what subsequent action or investigations were launched by either agency,
2:22
Speaker 2: but my understanding is that ASIO officers did not have
2:26
Speaker 2: knowledge of these red flags raised with the Security Hotline
2:31
Speaker 2: about explosives when they conducted their twenty nineteen assessment. This
2:36
Speaker 2: revelation will trigger alarm about why these early warnings and
2:41
Speaker 2: confidential tip offs about Sajidakram were missed, and not just
2:47
Speaker 2: missed once, but twice, and apparently by two agencies, AFP
2:53
Speaker 2: and ASIO. Both organizations declined to comment when I contacted
2:58
Speaker 2: them today. My informants tell me that the tip offs
3:02
Speaker 2: about Sajid Akram to the National Security Hotline were located
3:06
Speaker 2: in classified files that were discovered in the aftermath of
3:10
Speaker 2: the Kannaka attack. The Howard government first set up the
3:14
Speaker 2: National Security Hotline back in December two thousand and two
3:18
Speaker 2: as a way for the public to report possible suspicious
3:21
Speaker 2: behavior like signs of terrorism or foreign interference. The information
3:26
Speaker 2: was then assessed or triaged and referred to the appropriate bodies. Now,
3:32
Speaker 2: this revelation tonight contributes to the series of failures and
3:38
Speaker 2: failures and information sharing breakdowns that I've been discovering and
3:43
Speaker 2: reporting on as part of my investigation. I reported on
3:47
Speaker 2: the front page of the Sunday Telegraph yesterday and on
3:52
Speaker 2: the Sky News website. The daisio's assessment of the alleged
3:55
Speaker 2: Bondaie attackers in twenty nineteen demanded the travel alerts be
4:01
Speaker 2: placed on them and their file revisited if they associated
4:06
Speaker 2: with extremists. But in a catastrophic failure, the men were
4:10
Speaker 2: able to move freely through known terror hotspots and the
4:15
Speaker 2: acrams slipped through the cracks of law enforcement and security
4:19
Speaker 2: agencies before the Bondai massacre. Now, in what I believe
4:24
Speaker 2: is a critical lapse. The Australian Federal Police and Border
4:30
Speaker 2: Force were aware of Navid and Sajed Akram's travel to
4:34
Speaker 2: non terror hotspots, but did not pass the intelligence on
4:39
Speaker 2: did not flag it with ASIO on New Southwales Police,
4:43
Speaker 2: which issued the gun licenses. Now i've reported that the
4:47
Speaker 2: Acrams traveled to use Bekistan, a known gateway to terror
4:52
Speaker 2: hotspot Afghanistan, in late twenty twenty two or early twenty
4:57
Speaker 2: twenty three. Intelligence give into Australia by our partners in
5:02
Speaker 2: the United States and in Israel suggests that they tried
5:05
Speaker 2: to reach Afghanistan on foot, but they weren't believed to
5:09
Speaker 2: be successful. Now, they also traveled to a hotspot in
5:14
Speaker 2: the known terror hotspot in the Southern Philippines the month
5:18
Speaker 2: before the Bondai attack, and they went to Saudi Arabia,
5:23
Speaker 2: which could have been to simply visit Mecca. But shockingly,
5:28
Speaker 2: none of this travel information to use Bekistan, to the
5:33
Speaker 2: Southern Philippines or to Saudi Arabia was flagged with ASIO
5:38
Speaker 2: or New South Wales Police. Now, had ASIO understood the
5:43
Speaker 2: pattern of their movements, it is possible the spy agency
5:47
Speaker 2: may have taken a second look at the pair conducted
5:51
Speaker 2: or revised assessment and had New South Wales police known
5:56
Speaker 2: of the travel to countries of security concern, it could
6:00
Speaker 2: have revoked or reassessed the gun licenses. It should be
6:05
Speaker 2: a censure in my view that police, before issuing gun
6:08
Speaker 2: licenses have access to information about whether applicants have traveled
6:14
Speaker 2: to terror hotspots. My investigation has also discovered that asio's
6:19
Speaker 2: travel alert was only placed on the acram's first pot
6:22
Speaker 2: of call rather than their final destination, and some senior
6:27
Speaker 2: figures that I've spoken to suggest that this was inadequate
6:30
Speaker 2: because it meant that ASIO didn't directly know their final destination.
6:36
Speaker 2: I am told that that twenty nineteen assessment by ASIO
6:41
Speaker 2: was thorough and rigorous, and ASIO formed the view that
6:46
Speaker 2: the father was concerned about his son's possible radicalization. In hindsight,
6:52
Speaker 2: it's been suggested to me that Sajid put on a
6:55
Speaker 2: good performance of a father who was keen to curb
6:59
Speaker 2: the ways of his son, and authorities were said to
7:02
Speaker 2: have been encouraged by Sajeed's apparent cooperation. But after the
7:07
Speaker 2: interrogation by ASIO, it's understood that the pair allegedly went dark.
7:15
Speaker 2: The manifesto that they recorded before the terror attack, I'm
7:19
Speaker 2: told allegedly includes a reference to the fact that they
7:23
Speaker 2: were smart enough not to discuss their plans in places
7:26
Speaker 2: monitored by authorities. I'm also told that a middle ranking
7:31
Speaker 2: officer signed off on this AZIO assessment and it did
7:33
Speaker 2: not go to a senior level. Now, there's also the
7:38
Speaker 2: very important issue of counter terrorism funding, and during my
7:43
Speaker 2: research I was shocked to learn that classified documents reveal
7:47
Speaker 2: counter terrorism funding fell from over twenty three percent of
7:53
Speaker 2: intelligence resourcing in twenty nineteen to twenty twenty to nineteen
7:58
Speaker 2: percent in twenty twenty five. And that's across the Australian
8:02
Speaker 2: intelligence community. Azo's baseline funding had not increased in line
8:07
Speaker 2: with inflation, and no additional funding was directed to counter terrorism.
8:14
Speaker 2: So at this precise time that funding across the Australian
8:18
Speaker 2: national intelligence community for counter terrorism was collapsing, the threat
8:23
Speaker 2: level had been raised to probable, which means there's a
8:28
Speaker 2: greater than fifty percent chance of a terror attack in
8:32
Speaker 2: the next twelve months. Now, the more I investigate this topic,
8:37
Speaker 2: the picture that emerges is of agencies failing to communicate
8:42
Speaker 2: and share intelligence, a major drop in counter terrorism funding,
8:48
Speaker 2: and a federal government that simply wasn't paying close attention
8:54
Speaker 2: to the issue of anti Semitism. Now, none of my
8:58
Speaker 2: reporting or investigation is to assign blame. I want to
9:02
Speaker 2: be clear that the only people responsible for the deadly
9:07
Speaker 2: massacre which cost fifteen innocent lives and left another forty
9:12
Speaker 2: wounded by the alleged shooters. But in a climate where
9:18
Speaker 2: Islamist extremism remains a serious problem, we need robust security
9:24
Speaker 2: and law enforcement agencies that are working effectively together, and
9:29
Speaker 2: we need a government that has terrorism as a top priority.
9:38
Speaker 2: The Royal Commission is this week conducting hearings into the
9:41
Speaker 2: response and actions of agencies intelligence and law enforcement, and
9:47
Speaker 2: we heard from ASIO, the Federal Police, New South Wales
9:50
Speaker 2: Police and the Jewish Community Security Group. Today. Counsel assisting
9:55
Speaker 2: the Royal Commission, Richard Lancaster, gave an opening statement where
10:00
Speaker 2: he confirmed that the Jewish Security Group CSG had asked
10:06
Speaker 2: New South Wales Police for permanent police officers at the
10:10
Speaker 2: Kannaker events, but that this had been declined.
10:15
Speaker 3: CSG asked New South Wales Police to provide a police
10:18
Speaker 3: presence for the entirety of the Hanneker events at Bondeau
10:21
Speaker 3: Beach and at Dover Heights, New South Wales. Police decided
10:24
Speaker 3: not to provide a static president presence for the duration
10:28
Speaker 3: of the Bondai event. That allocated a mobile tasking. That is,
10:33
Speaker 3: police officers were instructed to attend the event from time
10:36
Speaker 3: to time during the evening. At the time the shooting began,
10:39
Speaker 3: there were four police officers at Archer Park.
10:44
Speaker 2: So confirmation there that CSG did ask police to provide
10:50
Speaker 2: presence for the entirety of the Karneker event. This is
10:55
Speaker 2: a story I first reported on just four days after
10:59
Speaker 2: the Kinduka event and it was good to see it
11:02
Speaker 2: ventilated in public at the Royal Commission today. But this
11:06
Speaker 2: fact that police didn't provide permanent offices is something that
11:13
Speaker 2: needs to be examined seriously and it did form the
11:17
Speaker 2: subject of further questions today. Representatives from CSG gave evidence
11:22
Speaker 2: about how they emailed police several times, gave them an
11:27
Speaker 2: assessment and spoke to them on the phone to make
11:30
Speaker 2: this request. Now they will have to be a critical
11:33
Speaker 2: finding of New So those police and not the officers themselves,
11:37
Speaker 2: but those in management who made this decision not to
11:42
Speaker 2: properly police the Kuneker festivals, because it left the community vulnerable.
11:48
Speaker 2: We were sitting ducks. The emails by CSG that were
11:54
Speaker 2: read during the Royal Commission today highlighted just how high
11:58
Speaker 2: the terror risk remained to the community. The council assisting
12:02
Speaker 2: Richard Lancaster also confirmed how devastatingly quickly so many were
12:10
Speaker 2: killed at the Kunneker event.
12:13
Speaker 3: Within twenty nine seconds of the start of the shooting,
12:16
Speaker 3: eleven people were shot tragically, ten of them fatally.
12:22
Speaker 2: Truly tragic. The first many knew that there was a
12:26
Speaker 2: shooting was when they were hit. It came as a shock,
12:32
Speaker 2: and that was the case for Peter Marin. We're going
12:34
Speaker 2: to hear more about that in a moment. ASIO Director
12:38
Speaker 2: General Mike Burgess also gave evidence today and he was
12:40
Speaker 2: asked about the security environment in the years before October seven.
12:46
Speaker 2: He spoke about how foreign interference anne espionage had been
12:50
Speaker 2: a greater threat than terrorism in February twenty twenty three,
12:55
Speaker 2: although he said that terrorism was still an enduring threat,
12:59
Speaker 2: and he said that reason uses had been moved across
13:01
Speaker 2: or reallocated to reflect that change in priority. But in
13:06
Speaker 2: quite powerful comments he spoke about how all of that
13:10
Speaker 2: changed on October seven.
13:13
Speaker 4: On the seventh of October when a Hamas undertook their
13:16
Speaker 4: horrific terroist attack against the State of Israel, the terrorism
13:19
Speaker 4: threat level was at possible, but of course, as we
13:23
Speaker 4: saw literally two days later, not even before the Israeli
13:27
Speaker 4: government responded to that horrific attack, we saw the strong
13:31
Speaker 4: emotions appear in this country where we had people celebrating
13:36
Speaker 4: the Hamas terrorist attack. Since that time recognized it's an
13:40
Speaker 4: amotive issue. We saw threatening, intimidating behavior through the end
13:44
Speaker 4: of twenty three against Jewish Australians all the way through
13:48
Speaker 4: twenty four until when it pivoted to direct targeting of people,
13:53
Speaker 4: businesses and places of worship in October twenty four.
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Speaker 2: In just five days after October, Sivan Mike Burgess put
14:01
Speaker 2: out a statement where he said he was concerned that
14:04
Speaker 2: this antisemitism could lead to violence. Well in the Royal
14:08
Speaker 2: Commission today, Burgess made a major comment. He implied implied
14:14
Speaker 2: that authorities had not dealt with antisemitism, which led to
14:18
Speaker 2: this terrifying environment we're living in now. He said antisemitism
14:22
Speaker 2: had been left unchecked and that it had become permissible,
14:27
Speaker 2: unchecked and permissible. Have a look.
14:30
Speaker 4: There is no doubt that the war in the Middle
14:33
Speaker 4: East invoked a range of emotions in Australia, and actually
14:37
Speaker 4: those strong reactions and some of those violent aspects of that,
14:42
Speaker 4: and those behaviors including antisemitism, that in our view that
14:46
Speaker 4: were left unchecked, were therefore normalized and gave more permission
14:49
Speaker 4: for violence through late twenty three and through twenty four
14:54
Speaker 4: to August when we raised it in that environment where
14:57
Speaker 4: violence is more permissible. Of course it can go through
15:00
Speaker 4: to politically motivat violence or promotion of community violence, and
15:04
Speaker 4: Jewish Australians were on the receiving end event Those.
15:07
Speaker 2: Are really strong comments in my view, but unfortunately no
15:11
Speaker 2: one asked Burgess precisely what he meant by the fact
15:15
Speaker 2: that anti Semitism had been left unchecked and that violence
15:19
Speaker 2: had become permissible. I wish I was there, I would
15:22
Speaker 2: have asked. I think we'd all agree that authorities at
15:26
Speaker 2: all levels, starting with the Albaneze government, left the anti
15:31
Speaker 2: Semitism unchecked. They didn't come out strongly enough after the
15:36
Speaker 2: Opera House protest to say that this is not on,
15:39
Speaker 2: that this is unacceptable, and there were very few, if
15:43
Speaker 2: any consequences for those involved in that unadulterated hatred, and
15:49
Speaker 2: even as this went on, Albinizi himself eventually praised other
15:54
Speaker 2: protests like the one on the Sydney Harbor Bridge and yes,
15:58
Speaker 2: that was peaceful in comparison to the Upper House, but
16:01
Speaker 2: there were multiple terror flags flown and terror slogans waved.
16:06
Speaker 2: It shouldn't have been praised.
16:09
Speaker 1: Now.
16:09
Speaker 2: The ASIO Director General also spoke about just how high
16:13
Speaker 2: the terror threat level is right now, and he said
16:16
Speaker 2: it was at the upper level of probable.
16:19
Speaker 4: There is more permission for violence, and an environment where
16:24
Speaker 4: people can go to violence with little or no warning
16:26
Speaker 4: means it's kind of we're on the upper end of probable.
16:29
Speaker 4: The next level up is expected, but in the current system,
16:33
Speaker 4: that requires us to have specific intelligence that there is
16:36
Speaker 4: a plan and a location for an act of terror,
16:40
Speaker 4: and in the absence of not having that, it won't
16:43
Speaker 4: go to expected. But we're flagging. The environment is a
16:46
Speaker 4: lot hotter than it has been in the past when
16:49
Speaker 4: we first raised the threat level, and that concerns me
16:52
Speaker 4: and my agency.
16:54
Speaker 2: Now this isn't surprising to any of us paying attention,
16:58
Speaker 2: but it is alarming in many ways. The security environment
17:02
Speaker 2: in Australia right now is as bad as it's ever been,
17:06
Speaker 2: and for the Jewish community, the threat facing us is
17:11
Speaker 2: simply unprecedented. And I still feel like what Mike Burgess
17:16
Speaker 2: just said, I feel that this is a fact that
17:19
Speaker 2: the Albaneze government doesn't truly appreciate. It's only thanks to
17:24
Speaker 2: Josh Fredenberg that this Royal Commission is underway and it's
17:28
Speaker 2: already ventilating many crucial and important failings, flaws and information
17:34
Speaker 2: sharing breakdowns. Now I'll come back to all of that,
17:42
Speaker 2: including my bombshell revelations with former AFP Superintendent David Craig
17:46
Speaker 2: a little later. But first, Virginia mar the wife of
17:51
Speaker 2: Bondai victim petermart has finally been reunited with his stolen
17:55
Speaker 2: camera and incredibly the memory card which holds his precious
18:01
Speaker 2: final photographs. Now, during the research for my book, I
18:06
Speaker 2: managed to piece together that Peter was photographing a beautiful
18:10
Speaker 2: moment with an Israeli mother, Hadah Levsoy and her daughter Carmel,
18:16
Speaker 2: aged seven, when he was shot. And this here on
18:20
Speaker 2: your screen. This is Peter's last ever photograph, taken at
18:27
Speaker 2: six point forty two pm. Those beautiful smiles were the
18:31
Speaker 2: last thing he ever saw before he was killed. Instantly. Virginia,
18:41
Speaker 2: Peter's wife, told me that having these images returned to
18:44
Speaker 2: her had a dual effect. She said, firstly the reminder
18:49
Speaker 2: that some of the people, either the subject or in
18:52
Speaker 2: the background, are no longer with us, having been murdered.
18:55
Speaker 2: And secondly that these beautiful, innocent, everyday people enjoying the
18:59
Speaker 2: event were the last things in front of Peter's eyes.
19:03
Speaker 2: They were all smiling, as I'm sure was he. She said,
19:07
Speaker 2: I'm very moved by the images, extremes of both grief
19:12
Speaker 2: and comfort. Now, just minutes before, at six point thirty
19:19
Speaker 2: nine PM, Peter was taking photographs of a regular guest
19:24
Speaker 2: on this program, Arson Ostrovsky, and his family. As you
19:28
Speaker 2: can see here, a perfect photograph. As Peter would tell Arson,
19:35
Speaker 2: they got it in one, all smiling, all eyes open.
19:40
Speaker 2: Just after this was taken, Arson went to get some food,
19:44
Speaker 2: the shooting broke out, and he was then separated from
19:47
Speaker 2: his wife and two daughters. Peter's last memory card also
19:52
Speaker 2: reveals an image of Bondi victim Rabbi Elie Schlanger and
19:56
Speaker 2: his trainee label Lazaroff. Not long after this was taken,
20:02
Speaker 2: a matter of minutes, Ellie was tragically shot and killed
20:07
Speaker 2: the beloved rabbi, the father of five, and Leebel was
20:11
Speaker 2: also shot in his abdomen. He was in hospital for
20:14
Speaker 2: a month where he underwent more than ten surgeries. Looking
20:20
Speaker 2: at these final images, it's eerie, it's beautiful at the
20:24
Speaker 2: same time to see the joy on all their faces
20:27
Speaker 2: and knowing that just a minute or two later life
20:31
Speaker 2: would change forever for all of them and some wouldn't
20:37
Speaker 2: make it. And joining me now with me in studio
20:42
Speaker 2: is the head of the Sydney Head of the Australia
20:45
Speaker 2: Israel and Jewish Affairs Council, Arsenal's Trotsky, who's been very
20:49
Speaker 2: emotional watching that right next to me, and the Tagnate's
20:52
Speaker 2: event photographer Emir Glazer, who was working with Peter Maher
20:56
Speaker 2: at the festival. And Emir, Peter was giving you his
20:59
Speaker 2: memory card every twenty minutes or so, but this final
21:03
Speaker 2: card about six or so minutes you've only just seen
21:07
Speaker 2: in the past day or so.
21:09
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've been chasing those photos for more than five
21:12
Speaker 5: months because we knew about the photos. We've been hearing
21:16
Speaker 5: all the stories from these those families and those victims
21:19
Speaker 5: that were in the photos, about those moments and we
21:22
Speaker 5: knew that we have it somewhere, and we did everything
21:24
Speaker 5: we could just to get them, and we finally got
21:26
Speaker 5: them after five months.
21:27
Speaker 2: It's incredible. And you went through them with Virginia yesterday.
21:32
Speaker 2: How was she seeing these photographs?
21:35
Speaker 5: Virginia was so happy to get those photos back in
21:39
Speaker 5: this memory card with Peter's last things he'd just seen
21:44
Speaker 5: and just captured. And for her it was like a
21:46
Speaker 5: closure to know that she knows exactly what Peter felt
21:51
Speaker 5: and so in those last moments of him, and that.
21:53
Speaker 2: He had these meaningful connections in the final moments of
21:57
Speaker 2: his life. Arson, how hard is it for you to
22:01
Speaker 2: see this image?
22:06
Speaker 6: It's painful, It's painful, and yet at the same time
22:11
Speaker 6: also hopeful because it takes you to a place of happiness.
22:18
Speaker 6: It takes you to those last few fleeting moments of
22:21
Speaker 6: joy and innocence, your children, smiling, families playing happy. Before
22:29
Speaker 6: you know, flicker, everything changed. You know, when Peter took
22:33
Speaker 6: out photo, he took one shot and he said perfect. Now,
22:36
Speaker 6: anyone that has children knows how hard it is to
22:39
Speaker 6: get one child to smile a look at the camera,
22:41
Speaker 6: let alone multiple children who took one shot and said perfect.
22:45
Speaker 6: That's it, and it takes a special kind of person
22:49
Speaker 6: to bring out that kind of joy and happiness from
22:52
Speaker 6: other people. And you could tell from from Peter that
22:55
Speaker 6: there was that warmth, there was that sincerity, that there
22:58
Speaker 6: was that basic humanity that he had on that day
23:01
Speaker 6: and every day that he took pictures and made families smile.
23:05
Speaker 2: So the time stamp on that photo was six thirty nine,
23:08
Speaker 2: is that right? Emre six thirty nine, So three minutes
23:11
Speaker 2: before the shooting began arcent. So what happened? What did
23:14
Speaker 2: you do after that?
23:17
Speaker 6: So the ceremony was about to start shortly, so we'd
23:20
Speaker 6: taken the picture, and then my wife and daughters had
23:24
Speaker 6: gone to sit down to watch a ceremony, and I'd
23:26
Speaker 6: gone to the side to get to get some food.
23:29
Speaker 6: And actually, when I looked at the photo, and I
23:32
Speaker 6: should say, because sitting here also in the mirror, that
23:35
Speaker 6: we wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for his
23:36
Speaker 6: efforts in helping to recover these photos and help provide
23:40
Speaker 6: all these families, including Virginia or with the peace of mind.
23:44
Speaker 6: But when we looked at the photo, and you see
23:46
Speaker 6: in the top right off the image a man wearing
23:50
Speaker 6: blue and white striped shirt. That is that is Alexander Kleintman,
23:54
Speaker 6: the Holocaust survivor who was shot in the attack. And
23:57
Speaker 6: it turns out that only by looking at the image
24:00
Speaker 6: we pieced together at my wife and daughters, that they
24:05
Speaker 6: were sitting right behind them. Wow, when the shooting started,
24:10
Speaker 6: they managed to escape.
24:11
Speaker 2: I mean, it was so lucky for all of you
24:13
Speaker 2: because of course us and you were hit in your
24:17
Speaker 2: sculp by a bullet grazed your sculp and you required surgery.
24:23
Speaker 6: Yeah, the doctor said it was literally millimeters between life
24:27
Speaker 6: and death. They had to operate on me to remove
24:31
Speaker 6: bullet fragments. But here I am, Here we are, and
24:35
Speaker 6: you know, we can't bring back those people. We have
24:37
Speaker 6: those beautiful memories, but we're fighting for a better future.
24:40
Speaker 2: Noel, And just to recap why it took so long
24:43
Speaker 2: to get these photographs, Peter was killed when he was
24:48
Speaker 2: taking the photograph. He had his camera on him. I
24:51
Speaker 2: showed you that footage on Thursday Night's program that he
24:54
Speaker 2: was literally lying on the grass with his camera underneath
24:58
Speaker 2: him and it then disappeared. And Virginia mar and Emia
25:05
Speaker 2: have been for six months now trying to find out
25:08
Speaker 2: what happened to Peter's camera, what happened to the final images?
25:12
Speaker 2: And we now know that police made a dramatic arrest
25:18
Speaker 2: on Wednesday. They released the information on Thursday that they
25:21
Speaker 2: had arrested and charged another photographer at the Bunde event,
25:25
Speaker 2: Danny Ridley, who's thirty five, is not Jewish, that police
25:29
Speaker 2: have charged him with allegedly stealing the camera and allegedly
25:33
Speaker 2: pawning it for eight hundred dollars. So I mean to me,
25:37
Speaker 2: it was a massive effort. You were desperately trying to
25:40
Speaker 2: find the final photographs to piece together, you know, the
25:44
Speaker 2: missing pieces of the puzzle, as we spoke about for
25:48
Speaker 2: the Sky News documentary. You know Peter's photographs. He was
25:51
Speaker 2: a detective in life, and putting together the images was
25:55
Speaker 2: almost like, you know, his contribution from beyond the grave,
25:59
Speaker 2: trying to wrack out where everybody was just crucial evidence.
26:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, those photos were giving us so much information and
26:07
Speaker 5: so much confirmation for what we heard from everyone that
26:10
Speaker 5: were there and for all the people that we captured
26:13
Speaker 5: pholdos Off. They had this memory of what has happened,
26:17
Speaker 5: and they clearly knew what they've been through during the attack,
26:22
Speaker 5: but they never had this confirmation that it's actually happened,
26:25
Speaker 5: and they thought they might imagine that maybe they're wrong
26:28
Speaker 5: with some of the details. And once we got those
26:31
Speaker 5: photos and we can confirm the information and the time
26:34
Speaker 5: it happened and see in the background exactly what was
26:37
Speaker 5: happening at the same time, it was a beautiful closure
26:40
Speaker 5: for all these photos.
26:41
Speaker 7: And I'm happy that I could give it to them.
26:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you worked so hard because initially you thought
26:46
Speaker 2: police had the camera.
26:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
26:49
Speaker 5: We were thinking for like three months that the police
26:51
Speaker 5: had it. And after three months the police contacted me
26:54
Speaker 5: and Virginia and told us they didn't have the camera
26:57
Speaker 5: and they started investigating to find out what it happened today.
27:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they went through all of the footage
27:04
Speaker 2: they had so arson. I mean, you were one of
27:07
Speaker 2: the last to be photographed. You spoke a little bit
27:10
Speaker 2: before about how lovely Peter was. Do you remember more
27:13
Speaker 2: about the interaction you had with him?
27:16
Speaker 6: It was, it was fleeting. It was the briefest of
27:19
Speaker 6: interactions we had. We really wanted a memento from the
27:23
Speaker 6: from the festival and were pointed. We actually went to
27:27
Speaker 6: a mirror and a mirror pointed us towards towards Peter,
27:30
Speaker 6: and we just remember he took one shot and said
27:33
Speaker 6: that's perfect. Everyone's smiling. And that's how we remember Peter,
27:37
Speaker 6: and that's how we want to remember Bonday, not what
27:40
Speaker 6: actually happened, but what was just before.
27:44
Speaker 2: Just you know, hearing all of these revelations about the
27:47
Speaker 2: Royal Commission my reporting over the past couple of days, Arson,
27:51
Speaker 2: you know, what do you think about the role of
27:54
Speaker 2: the information sharing breakdown?
27:57
Speaker 6: Look a man, it's it's off and that Bondo was
28:02
Speaker 6: a catastrophic failure of intelligence. We saw that on that day.
28:07
Speaker 6: We've seen that in a lot of the revelations that
28:09
Speaker 6: have come out. I can only hope that in what
28:13
Speaker 6: we do here in the Royal Commission hearings now that
28:17
Speaker 6: we learn the lessons from what happened. We owe that
28:20
Speaker 6: not only to the victims, the fifteen people that were
28:23
Speaker 6: that were murdered, but we owe that not and not
28:25
Speaker 6: only to the Jewish community, but we owe that to
28:27
Speaker 6: Australia because when anti Semitism continues to permeate, when it
28:32
Speaker 6: continues to present national security thereat throughout, it's not only
28:35
Speaker 6: danger to the Jewish community, it's danger to Australia all right.
28:38
Speaker 2: Arson Ostrowsky, Amir Glazer, thank you both so much. Thank you,
28:42
Speaker 2: Thank you again, Amir, thank you for all your efforts
28:44
Speaker 2: in tracking this down. All right, coming up, the Prime
28:49
Speaker 2: Minister hints that the capital gains tax carveouts could go
28:52
Speaker 2: beyond the tech sector. Dave Sharma will join me to
28:55
Speaker 2: discuss a little later, but first Ray Hardley will tear
28:58
Speaker 2: into the so called Teals and their biggest fan, Malcolm
29:01
Speaker 2: Turnbull over their new party push. That's after the break. Well,
29:09
Speaker 2: the backlash over Labour's capital gains tax changes is getting louder,
29:13
Speaker 2: and now the Prime Minister is talking carve outs. He
29:16
Speaker 2: says exemptions may not just be limited to the tech startups,
29:20
Speaker 2: with the Treasury now consulting wider business groups before the
29:24
Speaker 2: second bill is brought in. Are you of the view
29:27
Speaker 2: that whatever carve out or exemption is limited quite tightly
29:32
Speaker 2: just to tech sector.
29:33
Speaker 1: Well, with respect, that's not what we said on Budget Night.
29:36
Speaker 8: On Treasury are going about consulting not just in tech
29:41
Speaker 8: but consulting COSBAA for example, Aki the Tech Council.
29:47
Speaker 2: And joining me now as always and a Monday and
29:49
Speaker 2: great to have him back in studio Radio legend. Ray
29:51
Speaker 2: had they we missed you last week.
29:53
Speaker 1: Thank you Gold Coast. Yeah, well it was nice to
29:55
Speaker 1: be there, but it's better to be here with you
29:57
Speaker 1: in the studio. But you can always tell the Prime
30:00
Speaker 1: minister's under pressure and telling FIBs because his mouth moves,
30:04
Speaker 1: and that was evident again there and all of a
30:07
Speaker 1: sudden after the capital gains tax, evenly Gearing and some
30:12
Speaker 1: of the labor politicians, even the ministers, and I was
30:14
Speaker 1: on a back benches saying he didn't talk to us.
30:16
Speaker 1: Well I got news for he didn't talk to anyone.
30:18
Speaker 1: He lied about it. So now he's trying to walk
30:21
Speaker 1: back from that position, starting to talk about startup texts
30:24
Speaker 1: and then the backbencher has said from the Senate, well, no,
30:27
Speaker 1: what about every startup, every startup business and even in
30:30
Speaker 1: charmers Own electorate on the front page of the Australian
30:33
Speaker 1: Today talking about the fact that it's going to impact
30:35
Speaker 1: on them. This has been cobbled together by two people,
30:39
Speaker 1: the Treasurer and the Prime Minister, and they're starting to
30:42
Speaker 1: get a taste of exactly what's going to happen to
30:44
Speaker 1: them down the track. And paul En Hanson one nation,
30:48
Speaker 1: they're talking about twenty one seats in Queensland, which is
30:50
Speaker 1: her home base, of course. But it's just catastrophic for
30:54
Speaker 1: the government, I would think, and most of it's coming
30:56
Speaker 1: from one nation, not the traditional rivals, the Liberal National Party.
31:01
Speaker 2: And i'd add Katie Gallagher by the way, to that,
31:03
Speaker 2: to that little trio.
31:04
Speaker 1: That triumvirate imbeciles.
31:07
Speaker 2: Well, your words, not mine.
31:09
Speaker 1: No, I'd say it with some sincerity, I can tell you.
31:12
Speaker 1: But but Ray, the.
31:13
Speaker 2: Issue is he's talking about consultation. You're meant to do
31:17
Speaker 2: consultation before the legislation. There's no point in doing the
31:20
Speaker 2: consultation afterwards. And they can't just limit this carve out
31:24
Speaker 2: to startups. This issue affects and you know it would
31:28
Speaker 2: be a mistake to limit it to carve outs because
31:30
Speaker 2: this capital gains tax getting rid of the discount affect
31:33
Speaker 2: every small business across the country and it affects regular, ordinary,
31:40
Speaker 2: middle income Australian.
31:41
Speaker 1: You can tell that he's rattled the Prime Minister because
31:43
Speaker 1: of the social media memes that he cast aside last
31:46
Speaker 1: week and said, oh, that's no big deal, it's a
31:48
Speaker 1: bit of humor, but it's coming. The memes are put
31:50
Speaker 1: out there by young people. They're the tech savvy ones
31:53
Speaker 1: that put memes out and they're the ones he's allegedly
31:55
Speaker 1: trying to help. And then I made it out of
31:58
Speaker 1: the course of the weekend he's talking to the labor
32:01
Speaker 1: faithful in Victoria where he should have had a box
32:04
Speaker 1: of tissues beside him, because he got really emotional studyed
32:08
Speaker 1: choke up and said, look, you know, we've got to
32:10
Speaker 1: And of course they're all cheering because you know, the
32:13
Speaker 1: Labor Party in Victoria is a mess itself, and they're
32:16
Speaker 1: cheering for him, you know, as if he's the hope
32:18
Speaker 1: of the side. I'm only doing it to try and
32:21
Speaker 1: help you all, and all this insincere rubbish that he
32:24
Speaker 1: goes on with all the time. He didn't take it
32:26
Speaker 1: to the election. He didn't take it to the electorate.
32:29
Speaker 1: He has no mandate for this. And finally someone's going
32:32
Speaker 1: to wake up to him. And as Graham Richardson used
32:35
Speaker 1: to say all the time, the mob will works you out. Well,
32:38
Speaker 1: I'm afraid the mob are now working out Anthony Albanezi.
32:42
Speaker 2: It took too long.
32:43
Speaker 1: Well it took too long, but we worked him out
32:46
Speaker 1: years ago. Well look, I've got to compliment you on
32:50
Speaker 1: the previous view and your editorial tonight. I don't want
32:53
Speaker 1: it to do some but I know how impacted you
32:56
Speaker 1: are by all of this as a young Jewish woman.
32:58
Speaker 1: But as I said that night, we gathered at the
33:02
Speaker 1: side of the massacre of these poor people, and you
33:06
Speaker 1: can't help but tear up when you hear your guests
33:09
Speaker 1: talk about it impacted on them. But the Prime Minister,
33:14
Speaker 1: and I also heard what was said earlier in the
33:16
Speaker 1: program from the Royal Commission that all of a sudden,
33:21
Speaker 1: any Semitism is acceptable. Well, there's a couple of people
33:26
Speaker 1: who blame for all of that, and I know you
33:27
Speaker 1: said that the only two people who blame other alleged murderers,
33:31
Speaker 1: but the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister and other members
33:35
Speaker 1: of his party, the Labor Party. Now you wouldn't dare
33:39
Speaker 1: call them any Semitic because they'd be calling the defamation lawyas.
33:42
Speaker 1: But their sympathies do lie somewhere else. They lie somewhere else.
33:47
Speaker 1: And the rise that was described by the Boss of
33:51
Speaker 1: Aisio from twenty twenty two three four has been under
33:55
Speaker 1: a labor government. It's been under a labor government, and
33:58
Speaker 1: it took him a long long time, dragged and kicking
34:00
Speaker 1: screaming to the table for the Royal Commission, which is
34:03
Speaker 1: underway now. God mess Josh Friedenberg and others. But I
34:07
Speaker 1: mean and he took a long time to react to
34:10
Speaker 1: what happened on that dreadful day in BONDI a long
34:13
Speaker 1: long time. And there's a reason for that. And if
34:16
Speaker 1: you want to trace back, I heard you say that
34:18
Speaker 1: you wish you'd ask a question there today.
34:20
Speaker 2: I wish I was there to do the questions. But
34:23
Speaker 2: why didn't anyone say to Burgess, who.
34:25
Speaker 1: Left Well, I'll tell you who left it unchecked? Well,
34:28
Speaker 1: we know the labor government left it unchecked, the labor
34:31
Speaker 1: federal government. They left it unchecked when those protests, as
34:36
Speaker 1: Mike Burgess said, happened two days after the massacre in Israel.
34:42
Speaker 1: The Israelis had not responded on that. They hadn't responded,
34:46
Speaker 1: and we allowed people to march with Palestinian flags down
34:50
Speaker 1: Sydney streets to the Opera House without any any restriction.
34:55
Speaker 1: The police were there like lame ducks by their commissioner
34:58
Speaker 1: at the time, told not to do anything, and even
35:00
Speaker 1: the Premier was slay to react. Eventually he did, Chris Mins,
35:03
Speaker 1: but we didn't hear Diddley's squat from the Prime Minister.
35:07
Speaker 1: And if you correctly said he congratulated people for marching
35:10
Speaker 1: peacefully on the Harbor Bridge, I mean, for God's sake,
35:14
Speaker 1: I mean it's Mike Burgess is correct. Anio Semtism is rampant.
35:19
Speaker 1: It's rampant. And I say that as a non Jewish person.
35:22
Speaker 2: He's a very good leader. Well, he's the only one
35:26
Speaker 2: who's properly, repeatedly spoken about this. But Ray come back
35:30
Speaker 2: to the one nation point that all of this, the
35:33
Speaker 2: wake of Bondai, the unrest, the violence, the fire bombings,
35:38
Speaker 2: plus coupled with the economic picture, the rate rises, the
35:43
Speaker 2: inflation problem that was there before the war, all of
35:46
Speaker 2: this is why people are turning to one nation.
35:49
Speaker 1: Of course they are. It's not just one thing. It's
35:52
Speaker 1: not just the Palestinian Jewish debate. It's the economy. And
35:56
Speaker 1: it's of course they're jumping up and down the labor
35:59
Speaker 1: rights and saying, you know, and so are the Teals.
36:02
Speaker 1: You know, we don't want to go too far to
36:03
Speaker 1: the right. It's Trump like. It's all this, it's all
36:05
Speaker 1: that the people I have worked out and as you've
36:09
Speaker 1: seen now, they've worked it out in a by election
36:13
Speaker 1: in Pharaoh. They've worked that out and they're working out
36:16
Speaker 1: other things. And look, Pauline, you and I've spoken about Pauline.
36:20
Speaker 1: I came into broadcasting talkback when she was elevated into
36:23
Speaker 1: Parliament and I've gone from loving her to being cranky
36:27
Speaker 1: with her. But she is now typifying. She's the same
36:31
Speaker 1: age as me. She's typifying what most Australians are talking about,
36:36
Speaker 1: and it's not what anything the Alban Easy and doctor
36:38
Speaker 1: Chalmers are talking about.
36:40
Speaker 2: And there's Radbridge Pole shows that one Nation would win
36:44
Speaker 2: up to fifty nine seats if an election was held today.
36:47
Speaker 2: So they do better than the coalition.
36:49
Speaker 1: Well that's not hard because they are at the moment
36:52
Speaker 1: the federal opposition by default. They've only got two in
36:56
Speaker 1: the lower House, but they're their federal opposition by default
36:58
Speaker 1: because they've got a powerful lead enunciating to everyday Australians
37:04
Speaker 1: what they want to hear. And perhaps the Liberal particularly
37:08
Speaker 1: Party could take a leaf out of her book. And look,
37:10
Speaker 1: I hear this stuff all the time, and I've said
37:12
Speaker 1: it before, and the telling the stuff I do on
37:14
Speaker 1: a Monday and a Friday, all this hue and cry about,
37:17
Speaker 1: Oh look the Liberals or the Nationals. They can't in
37:21
Speaker 1: any way support one nation. The Labor Party governs with
37:25
Speaker 1: the Greens, they'll be counting on the Greens to put
37:28
Speaker 1: this legislation through. I mean, is anyone in any doubt
37:33
Speaker 1: that the Labor Party is supporting the Greens? And I
37:36
Speaker 1: think that's horrific. Some of the policies of the Greens
37:39
Speaker 1: is stark, raving lunacy. So why wouldn't a conservative party
37:44
Speaker 1: join with another conservative party although they're a bit more conservative,
37:48
Speaker 1: to try and battle against the lefties. It just seems
37:51
Speaker 1: to make sense.
37:52
Speaker 2: Especially when you put their primary figures together, might get
37:55
Speaker 2: close to around fifty percent primary, might be a shot
38:00
Speaker 2: at a governing a line.
38:01
Speaker 1: If such a bad thing to have a coalition of
38:03
Speaker 1: one nation Liberal National Party, I'll tell you what, I'd
38:06
Speaker 1: rather that than the Labor Party in the Greens, who
38:09
Speaker 1: are thinking that in relation to capital gains, tax and
38:11
Speaker 1: near with the gearing, heaven forbid, they don't think the
38:14
Speaker 1: Charmers and Albanize even gone far enough. Yeah, anyway, I'll
38:19
Speaker 1: better go and take a tablet.
38:21
Speaker 2: I always apologized to you.
38:23
Speaker 1: I used to do this five days a week. Now
38:25
Speaker 1: money doing one night a week.
38:27
Speaker 2: And we're honored to have you here. Thank you, Ray,
38:30
Speaker 2: thank you. All right. Coming up, former Federal Police Detective
38:34
Speaker 2: Superintendent David Craig will join me to discuss the exclusive
38:37
Speaker 2: about the red flags raised about Bondai shooter years before
38:41
Speaker 2: the attack. And Labour's tax grab is being blasted on
38:44
Speaker 2: billboard's in Canberra as the coalition faces a major test
38:48
Speaker 2: in Parliament. Dais Sharma is after the break. When the
38:55
Speaker 2: Albanese government returned to Canberra today, there were more than
38:58
Speaker 2: a dozen billboards slam their changes to capital gains tax.
39:02
Speaker 2: This was funded by a mortgage broker out of his
39:05
Speaker 2: own pocket. Now the reforms are being rammed through Parliament
39:09
Speaker 2: this Thursday and they dominated question time today.
39:13
Speaker 8: Now this government is now talking about carveouts to take startups,
39:17
Speaker 8: but not for small businesses, not for plumbers, not for hairdressers,
39:21
Speaker 8: not for other tradees, not for any other small business.
39:24
Speaker 8: But that's what this government does, mister speaker, pits Australians
39:27
Speaker 8: against Australians, young Australians against older Australians. Well I tell
39:32
Speaker 8: you what, mister speaker. Australians don't want carveouts. They want
39:36
Speaker 8: these taxes acted.
39:39
Speaker 2: And now live from Canberra, Liberal Senator Dave Sharma, Dave,
39:42
Speaker 2: great to see you. So the Albanizi government is bundling
39:48
Speaker 2: the two hundred and fifty dollars tax offset, so two
39:51
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty dollars back in people's pockets along with
39:54
Speaker 2: these changes to negative gearing and capital gains tax. Will
39:57
Speaker 2: the coalition still vote against to them.
40:02
Speaker 7: Well, look, I think we'll attempt to split the legislation
40:05
Speaker 7: shrr either in the House where we're unlikely to be successful,
40:08
Speaker 7: I grant you that, but in the Senate, where we
40:10
Speaker 7: might have better chances of success. The government has just
40:13
Speaker 7: landed us this on us today. Look, this is a
40:16
Speaker 7: poison pill from them. I mean, they know how unpopular
40:19
Speaker 7: their tax increases are. They're trying to put it in
40:22
Speaker 7: with these tiny sweeteners. A two hundred and fifty dollars
40:24
Speaker 7: tax officer that you won't see for a little over
40:27
Speaker 7: two years and that will be eaten up twice over
40:29
Speaker 7: by bracket creep and trying to get us to swallow
40:32
Speaker 7: with that tiny bit of sweetener. You know, the abolition
40:35
Speaker 7: of the capital gains tax discount, which will hurt small
40:39
Speaker 7: businesses and startups, the abolition of negative gearing a minimum
40:43
Speaker 7: thirty percent investment tax which will hit students and anyone
40:46
Speaker 7: else who happens to own shares or ets. This is
40:49
Speaker 7: a bad government. The government should bad budget. Rather, the
40:51
Speaker 7: government should just go back to the drawing board and
40:53
Speaker 7: listen to some of their own backbench MPs on this.
40:57
Speaker 2: That'll of course use it politically to say that you
41:00
Speaker 2: voted against tax cuts. Dave also want to ask you
41:05
Speaker 2: about this story today about the Teals that the Teals
41:08
Speaker 2: are looking at forming their own party. You, of course,
41:10
Speaker 2: were the MP for Wentworth, you ultimately lost to an independent.
41:15
Speaker 2: What do you think of this discussion that they're having
41:19
Speaker 2: to formally form a party.
41:23
Speaker 7: Well, look, I think many of us know they've been
41:26
Speaker 7: a party all along. I mean, you know, they've got
41:29
Speaker 7: the same funding network, they run on the same platform,
41:32
Speaker 7: they coordinate closely in parliament, they run on the same color,
41:35
Speaker 7: they have the same marketing materials, they have the same
41:38
Speaker 7: digital advertising consultants. I mean, they're a party in all
41:41
Speaker 7: but name. And I think this sort of community independent
41:44
Speaker 7: thing they've pulled is one of the biggest rusters in
41:47
Speaker 7: politics of all times. So you know, I wish them
41:49
Speaker 7: all the best. I think you know if they did
41:53
Speaker 7: form a political party, at least they would be being
41:55
Speaker 7: a little more transparent and upfront with the Australian people
41:57
Speaker 7: that they do coordinate, that they do have centralized guidance
42:01
Speaker 7: in how to respond to issues, that they do share
42:03
Speaker 7: policy positions and donors and everything else. I think that
42:06
Speaker 7: would be a more honest thing to do.
42:08
Speaker 2: I mean, there's reports that some moderate Liberals might be
42:11
Speaker 2: considering joining them. Do you know of any.
42:15
Speaker 7: I don't, and I have heard nothing to suggest that
42:18
Speaker 7: is the case. I don't know. I think every Liberal
42:20
Speaker 7: I know wants to make sure that we are the
42:23
Speaker 7: next government and that we are a competitive opposition.
42:26
Speaker 2: There were some breaking news in the Senate in the
42:28
Speaker 2: Legal and Constitutional Affairs Estimates this afternoon at around five o'clock,
42:34
Speaker 2: where the Attorney General's Department confirmed that consent to prosecute
42:39
Speaker 2: the ISIS Brides was granted back in December, so the
42:43
Speaker 2: evidence met their threshold. Do you think there are now
42:46
Speaker 2: questions given this about why they were allowed into the country.
42:53
Speaker 7: Yes, I do. Look, I wasn't in that estimate's hearing,
42:55
Speaker 7: so I'm obviously just hearing the reports secondhand. But we
42:59
Speaker 7: may the case as an opposition that there were a
43:03
Speaker 7: number of avenues available to the government to prevent these
43:05
Speaker 7: people from re entering the country. They could issue temporary
43:09
Speaker 7: exclusion orders, and we know in at least one case
43:12
Speaker 7: that's been successful in preventing someone from returning. But the
43:15
Speaker 7: Foreign minister could also refuse to issue a passporn on
43:18
Speaker 7: national security grounds, and that is an avenue that the
43:20
Speaker 7: government didn't seem to pursue. You would think if there
43:23
Speaker 7: was a dossier of evidence suggesting these people can and
43:26
Speaker 7: should be prosecuted, that would constitute national security grounds for
43:30
Speaker 7: refusing to issue a passport.
43:32
Speaker 2: Just very quickly, Dave, we saw Penny One come out
43:36
Speaker 2: strongly when about the treatment of the guys activists from
43:40
Speaker 2: that flotilla in Israel last week. But then we saw
43:43
Speaker 2: this horrific footage of how they were being beaten in Spain,
43:47
Speaker 2: and as far as I've seen, not a.
43:49
Speaker 7: Word I've seen that footage as well, Charry, Look, I've
43:57
Speaker 7: seen the Israel government has denied that any of these
44:00
Speaker 7: people were mistreated in custody. I don't see why they
44:03
Speaker 7: would have an interest in doing that. I think the
44:06
Speaker 7: video of one of their ministers was quickly condemned and
44:09
Speaker 7: reprimanded by the Prime Minister of Israel. And I saw
44:14
Speaker 7: the photo the footage in Spain as well. I also
44:16
Speaker 7: saw someone I think inn Israeli Foreign Ministry account urging
44:20
Speaker 7: the Spanish authorities to investigate this.
44:23
Speaker 2: But the hypocrisy of Penny Wang very quickly.
44:27
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, look, I mean I just this labor government,
44:30
Speaker 7: this labor movement, and we saw it at the Victorian
44:32
Speaker 7: State conference over the weekend. I never missed an opportunity
44:35
Speaker 7: to criticize Israel. But if it comes to any other country,
44:38
Speaker 7: Iran violating the human rights of its own people, or
44:42
Speaker 7: any other violational issue of concern around the world, there's
44:46
Speaker 7: nothing to be said. But they seem to have a
44:49
Speaker 7: spotlight always on Israel, and they're always on a hair
44:53
Speaker 7: trigger to criticize Israel and its behavior.
44:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was just such a direct comparison. Dave Sharma,
44:58
Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining us. Now, after the break,
45:01
Speaker 2: we'll return to the bombshell story that red flags were
45:04
Speaker 2: raised over one of the Bondi shooters nearly two decades ago.
45:07
Speaker 2: Former AFP detective superintendent would join me.
45:11
Speaker 3: Next.
45:15
Speaker 2: Well, let's return to tonight's big exclusive that there were
45:18
Speaker 2: two alerts to the National Security Hotline about BONDI shooter
45:22
Speaker 2: Sajid Akrim. The first was eighteen years ago, and I'm
45:26
Speaker 2: joined now by former AFP Detective Superintendent David Craig. David,
45:30
Speaker 2: thanks for your time. Now tell us about the National
45:34
Speaker 2: Security hotline and how this intelligence or this information would
45:38
Speaker 2: have been triaged and then given to both AFP and ASO.
45:44
Speaker 9: Sure I know I'm sending these meetings, showy. What happens
45:46
Speaker 9: is the hotline receives a report, it's typed out and
45:50
Speaker 9: it's sent to the relevant jurisdiction. So it was in Queensland.
45:53
Speaker 9: It would involve Queensland Police, Australia at RE Police in
45:56
Speaker 9: Queensland and ASIO and Queensland. They all said down, they
46:01
Speaker 9: talk about the information that's been given. Someone will take
46:04
Speaker 9: ownership of it, making employees and then come back and
46:06
Speaker 9: report the outcome of that and at some stage a
46:09
Speaker 9: critical decision is made as to whether it develops and
46:11
Speaker 9: do an investigation or it shelved. And from what you
46:14
Speaker 9: told me in twenty seven, twenty fourteen, these reports weren't
46:18
Speaker 9: disseminated to ASIO as part of their twenty nineteen threat
46:23
Speaker 9: assessment on the Vidakron.
46:25
Speaker 2: Correct Correct so they were given, they were triaged, they
46:29
Speaker 2: were given to ASIO and AFP. I don't know about
46:32
Speaker 2: New South Wales Police. I haven't had that confirmed and
46:36
Speaker 2: it is not clear what investigations were conducted. But by
46:40
Speaker 2: the time, certainly when New South Wales Police issued the
46:45
Speaker 2: gun licenses and when ASIO did their twenty nineteen assessment,
46:48
Speaker 2: they didn't have that information. And the two thousand and
46:52
Speaker 2: seven tip off was about Sajit Acram's interest in explosive
46:56
Speaker 2: So is this an information sharing problem? How do you
46:59
Speaker 2: view it?
47:01
Speaker 9: Is an information sharing problem. Intelligence is only good if
47:04
Speaker 9: it's shared. If it's in Silo's charia, it's completely useless.
47:07
Speaker 9: The National counter Terrorism Handbook hasn't been updated since twenty nineteen,
47:13
Speaker 9: so now this is the main document that state and
47:17
Speaker 9: federal and territory governments use for the flow of intelligence
47:20
Speaker 9: for law enforcement, everything to do with counter terrorism. This
47:23
Speaker 9: government has not substantially updated that for six years. That's
47:28
Speaker 9: why the Royal Commission made such an urgent finding.
47:31
Speaker 2: We've also seen the hero cop from the Lynt Cafe
47:34
Speaker 2: siege van Besen come out have a look at what
47:37
Speaker 2: he's hat to say.
47:39
Speaker 1: It's time to take this seriously.
47:41
Speaker 4: There needs to be some sort of accountability in the
47:43
Speaker 4: intelligence agency.
47:46
Speaker 2: He warned that we need to get serious about terrorism
47:49
Speaker 2: by keeping ISIS cohort out of the country.
47:53
Speaker 4: That it's done to understand or comprehend the stupidity behind
47:56
Speaker 4: that decision.
47:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think. Do you think the is
48:00
Speaker 2: cohort should have more temporary exclusion orders should have been used.
48:04
Speaker 2: We've got another group returning tomorrow.
48:07
Speaker 9: Yes, of course. I mean the threshold is there to
48:09
Speaker 9: criminally charge someone. The threshold was there for a temporary
48:12
Speaker 9: exclusion order. There is also the facility for the minister
48:15
Speaker 9: to withdraw the passport, to cancel the passport. None of
48:19
Speaker 9: this has happened. This government may not be assisting, but
48:22
Speaker 9: it's certainly got the welcome out and we shouldn't be
48:25
Speaker 9: accepting this. This is just not Australian way of values
48:29
Speaker 9: to allow these people coming back in with what thirty
48:32
Speaker 9: forty fifty million dollars a year in monitoring fees for
48:36
Speaker 9: this cohort. It's appalling. It's too many people going without
48:39
Speaker 9: things to allow suspected terrorists back in our country.
48:44
Speaker 2: Just on the AFP way you used to work this
48:47
Speaker 2: issue that they recorded the travel of the alleged bond
48:50
Speaker 2: II shooters to tear hotspots but then didn't flag it
48:54
Speaker 2: with ASIO and New South Wales Police. How problematic is that?
48:59
Speaker 9: Very problematic?
49:00
Speaker 7: Charry?
49:00
Speaker 9: I mean the AZO assessment if it was completed they
49:06
Speaker 9: and was done correctly and then shelled saying that there
49:10
Speaker 9: was no particular threat by either of these gentlemen at
49:12
Speaker 9: the time. The trip wire was when they go overseas,
49:15
Speaker 9: particularly when they go to Southern Philippines, which everyone knows
49:18
Speaker 9: is a ter terror training hot spot. So that is
49:21
Speaker 9: a trip wire that we missed. And most of this, Charry,
49:24
Speaker 9: I can point down to not just one agency, but
49:27
Speaker 9: the funding for all agencies involved. It's been diverted away
49:30
Speaker 9: from CANTA terrorism until BONDAI happened, and it's going to
49:33
Speaker 9: happen again. Nothing much has changed.
49:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting that in the interim Report of
49:38
Speaker 2: the Royal Commission it did include that line that across
49:42
Speaker 2: the Australian intelligence community, finding for counter terrorism had fallen.
49:46
Speaker 2: I had a specific figure that I spoke about early
49:49
Speaker 2: in the show that it had fallen from twenty three
49:52
Speaker 2: percent in twenty nineteen to nineteen percent by twenty twenty five.
49:57
Speaker 2: So this is certainly a pattern. David Craig, thank you
50:00
Speaker 2: very much for your time tonight, and thanks everyone for
50:04
Speaker 2: your company. I'll see you again tomorrow evening at eight pm.
50:07
Speaker 2: Another big day, no doubt of role commission hearings tomorrow,
50:10
Speaker 2: but right now, here's poor Mari