Latest / Being Different Together / #43 - The Trickster, the Unconscious, and Why Stress Makes Us Forget

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#43 - The Trickster, the Unconscious, and Why Stress Makes Us Forget · Being Different Together

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no they can't do it alone.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we welcome them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't about being right.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's about being different together.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, one and all, to episode number 43 of being different together.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to change it up a little bit.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know, I know.
• 1:10
  unknown: I know.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Here we are.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're doing something a little bit different today because um, well, we had been doing this series on the body, and uh and then last week we had my friend Becky Rubright here to talk to us about constructal law, not to be confused with construction law, which is what we're enduring.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: The law of construction.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Everything costs three times as much and takes six times as long.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only done right the third time.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you may there are people here working at our house today.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: You may hear them in the background, and I'm terribly sorry if it is incredibly distracting.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it fits the theme.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you want something right, we'll get it done the third time.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Which is that last week we were so overwhelmed with what was going on in the house, we woke up on Thursday morning and decided we just could not do the pod.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: It had been a an I I would say record-breaking, stressful week with this project.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: The project had many obstacles, which we overcame.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: By by Friday afternoon, it we it was all good.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was all good.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We overcame the obstacles.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: We worked with them and it was a lot.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: But man, it was about four days of I I don't know how this is gonna go.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and for me, uh you know, it's like I have my regular work stuff that I do, and then I have this lovely podcast, which I really like.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the podcast for me, it's work, but it's also a creative endeavor, right?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're coming up with the content, we're talking about it, we're thinking about it, we're researching things.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it has more of a creative kind of feeling to me.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I woke up on Thursday last week and I was like, I was like, I, you know.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, I woke up and I was like, oh, we can't record.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't record today.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I almost just kind of heard in my mind, you know, the sound of the EEG machine, uh, EKG when it goes flatlined, like it was like that.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I was like, I am flatlining, I don't have it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, listeners, um, you may have been listening enough to know that typically our schedule is we get up uh a little bit earlier on or we get going a little bit earlier on Thursdays.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh we both typically have a full slate of people after.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have the full work.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's like it's I knew that I was showing up to my treatment room.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with the podcast we got a little bit of wiggle room.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we triaged it and we decided to postpone it and then because that we do we've done a couple times where things have messed up.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, my memory is that what was it?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: What did we do on Saturday?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we didn't do nothing.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I did a lot of gardening.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did a lot of gardening.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were both just like sitting on the couch Saturday morning and be like, we made it.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: We made it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until Saturday evening, like evening evening, that I go or sit in there watching PBS and I go, the podcast.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't record, we didn't record the podcast.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like we are not, okay, I'll speak for myself.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I am not the type of person that generally forgets things.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Me too, yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, if I make plans with somebody, I don't forget.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I have something on my schedule to do it, I don't like forget, like literally forget.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now I will reschedule things, I will definitely dread things and cancel them.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't generally speak, I don't forget.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: But this this like straight true for straight up forgetting.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when you looked at me and said we didn't record the podcast, my response was I just burst out laughing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my god, we didn't do it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, okay, that's hilarious.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it tomorrow.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: We'll do it tomorrow.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when was it?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think again in the evening.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was Sunday night.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: We were laying in bed, probably watching PBS.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh my god, we did it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I bust out laughing again.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, we'd love you.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love you all.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we'd love to do the pod.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd love to think we were gonna do it on Monday.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Were we gonna do it on Monday?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was only twice that we really find it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was only twice.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I like to think of it as three times because that makes it more like a fairy tale.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because in fairy tales, it's always this is our third time of trying.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We we got it right the third time.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: We got it right the third time.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I cast a spell on you.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're catching their disease.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're mine.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Very strange.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I cast a spell.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there have been uh uh I could count on on less than half of one hand times that I have just completely forgot about a thing.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and like Yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it has always been, always been at a time that I would just had extraordinary stress.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like I just I reach maximum capacity.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: My brain my brain is just not keeping up.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: The other weird thing for me, which I hadn't mentioned to you, is you know, like when I'm doing stuff around the house or whatever, like I like to listen to my like NBR shows or podcasts or whatever.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I spent hours gardening the other day listening to nothing.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Listening, I don't even want the input.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I got enough going on in here, and that is not normal for me.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so that all got me thinking about forgetting, denial, sleep, like that just as a psychological theme.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I started thinking about like all of the fairy tales that I know that have forgetting or particularly sleep in them.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I was thinking about was I was thinking, okay, well, forget like totally forgetting something is most likely the defense mechanism of repression.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And or denial.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's really repression because it's it's like totally we didn't know it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wasn't.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't even like talk about it in the morning and like did it get any kind of strategy.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that that was probably the fatal move.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that was there was not one part of me that was secretly like waiting for you to bring down.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes like the morning that we canceled, I laid in bed and I was like, oh god, I really don't want to do it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't want to disappoint.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know she's gonna be disappointed.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want to do it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to get honest with her.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta get honest with her about the fact that I don't want to do it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, babe, I just don't want to do this.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you were like, Oh thank god, I don't either.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was like, oh no, I thought that that's where we were going anyways.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like the moment when we were.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because we woke, I woke up so tired.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So tired and so overwhelmed.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was thinking, and then it's so anyway, I was thinking about okay, so like let's say my psyche just took that and put it away.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I no longer had bandwidth to deal with it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything else in my life going on last week.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I could not the pod could not enter my mind, literally.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And my psyche erected a guardian.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I think of these defense mechanisms as they're really helpful at certain times.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like not being able to remember could actually be great.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: About like it's protective, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of people come into therapy and they're like, they want to do work trauma work, which is great.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I support this, but I'm not I don't want to be unclear about that, but but they'll say, I have a feeling, but I don't really remember.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like um, yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like maybe that's because you can't.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Literally can't like there's just a you're too full.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't like your psyche will not, it's like this guardian of Rex, and it's like will not you though you shall not pass you know is it kind of like Gandalf and the thing with the sword, you know, and he's just gonna fight that shade.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that shadow, he's just gonna fight that, and he goes right down with it.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it you know that scene is so powerful because in terms of something coming up from the unconscious, coming up out of that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know what I'm talking about, that scene in uh Lord of the Rings?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where they're down in the mind, you know, they're in the underworld already.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the wizard, and the wizard is like, you're not gonna and then he goes down with it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he comes back, of course, transformed.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: But he has this experience of being pulled down into the underworld or being put to sleep, forgetting.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I think of all of those um Disney movies that are like the person wakes up and there's somebody else, Freaky Friday.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Gulliver's Travels?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, he's just like he's just like penned down by a bunch of of tiny people or something.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know the one I'm talking about?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is that just is it, but he I think he wakes up and he goes on a journey and it's like it's all those movies were like it was a dream, you know.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: All the sitcom episodes where some kind of weird thing is happening.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, yeah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, Alice is actually Mrs.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Brady.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talked about the Odyssey um a couple episodes back.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember what number it is, but I'll put it in the show notes.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um a big part of that story is he's eating what the lotus flowers.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: The lotus eaters.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I got really into that series, um, his dark materials based on the uh Phil Philip Pullman's um trilogy.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, there's this whole part in the last third where the main character is um drugged um and put to sleep for a long time.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like her mother is trying to protect her.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler alert.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um this this female is trying to protect her and is keeping her asleep because there are people out there looking for her.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she has to go fulfill her destiny, basically.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's she has to wake back up.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, somebody has to wake her back up.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like Sleeping Beauty, that's that story.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to interrupt you.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think Sleeping Beauty is very similar, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like um And Snow Wife goes to sleep, doesn't she?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Snow White goes to sleep.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and then something, another part of her, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at the fairy tale as if all the all the elements are parts of you, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Another part of you has to be mobilized out of the unconscious and come kind of wake you up.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it is often the masculine that says, Hey, listen, you gotta do this thing.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so uh you know I guess that's me right now, since I'm the one that's saying Oh my god, the podcast.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and last night I just I mean, the way that I dealt with the fact that my mind kept forgetting was I just m put it in my calendar and set an alarm for it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, totally.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, okay.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm not gonna allow, I'm not gonna allow my mind to get the better of me, but I could really see how myself, if like if we want to go young-in with it, yeah, like my unconscious had a different agenda than my ego.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: My ego wanted to push through to do the pod.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, you know what this reminds me of?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: The time when um, again, with this construction thing, it's such a cool object lesson for people to understand the concept, I think.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like again with the construction thing, um, we had that day when they showed up and they were putting in a door and they came with the wrong door.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and my recollection was it was you were very upset about it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, listen, I did not want to record that day.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I felt like there was too much going on.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you were like, listen, let's just do it, let's power through, blah, blah, blah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, okay.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then they bring this door and it's the wrong size, and I'm, you know, I I listen, I want to say I've come a long way because they just cut two more holes in our external walls to put in these windows.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And symbolically, and I was okay with it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But but the first time they cut through the external concrete block wall to do stuff with this thing, I was just I don't know.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: It feels really vulnerable.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so then then they showed up, they showed up early with the wrong door size.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, let's they're gonna go to Home Depot, let's just record.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: We record, except we get to the end, and of course we did not record.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I pressed the record button.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think I pressed the button, but I just pressed it twice.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, are we recording right now?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I can see the little red light and the time is going by.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because that would be a classic.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: That would be a classic.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm here.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in it to win it today, but I was not that day.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So my unconscious, which is where I think you were going with this, just sort of took control.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And really it was saying no to me, which I needed to be said no to that day.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think I couldn't say no.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was not hearing no.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that you were not hearing no.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was a hundred percent no.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was a hundred percent gonna fight the fact that these guys were showing up.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna fight the fact that we're staying on schedule.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, we're staying, I mean, just boom, boom, masculine, masculine, masculine.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Just like we're staying on track, we're doing this thing, yong, yong, yon, yong.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and so then anxious that that that yin needed to come.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yin was like, oh, I know how to take care of this.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I think in that moment we I would say I was not acting harmoniously.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't really in the flow in that moment.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was forcing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was just going back to the last episode with Becky on the flow.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can see where my ego just wanted its own way.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, and then it's like, okay, so then what shows up?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Trickster.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Trickster shows up and it's like, you want to record.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're on a record?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not so much.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is often where trickster will show up.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like in that limnal space um that's like you you aren't this is just not gonna happen today.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like no matter how hard you try, and no matter how much your ego wants this thing, um, maybe there's something going on that's in better service to your soul or to yourself.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um well, definitely sleeping in last Thursday wasn't better service to me.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, that was a good thing.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then also to have a relaxing weekend.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even though this is fun and everything, it's work.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: When we when we need to record on the weekend, it's working on the weekend, which we don't typically do.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I really try to keep to keep a decent set of boundaries around having off time, you know?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like and we really I mean, speaking for myself, I really need I needed two days of off time this weekend.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was a time in my career, probably 2008, nine, ten, where things were really busy, got really busy for me.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um this was kind of like when mindfulness made a big splash.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I was teaching workshops then too.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And because I had already been a meditator, it was a natural fit for me to be people were very hungry for the information and it wasn't as widely available as it is now.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was doing more teaching and um you know more speaking engagements, and I was just super busy.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I actually at one point I think Vieira said something, my daughter said something to me in the kitchen.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: She said something to the effect of I'm sick of Dr.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Brady.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was something like that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was something like a little only a little kid could say in a way that was like true, you know.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, God, I am too.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I put this little note for myself at the bottom of my work day every day that said goodnight, Dr.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Brady.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: As a way to like leave that at the office.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you know what I mean?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that I could really because it was right around that time that I started using my um iPhone a lot as well.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you had your emails on your own.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I had my emails on my text messages.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And clients had a different kind of direct access to me.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: That they didn't have in the same way before.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, like when I had a beeper or whatever.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know what I mean?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: There was a different layer of um I mean, I actually think for a short while, I had an office phone that had a machine on it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, you know what I mean?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I would just go into the office and listen to that in the morning.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: That and that was my work phone.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you didn't get your messages to your door.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I had a work phone even when I l when I was over there at Heritage Station, I had a work phone for a while.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And a fax machine.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Who has those anymore?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think this thing about um, you know, like trying to structure that so that I have off time is so important, and it was really nice to have a simple weekend.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I needed it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I really needed it.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe like Odysseus needed it too.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there are these times when my ego might be like, damn, I really wanted to, but then I forgot, and maybe forgetting was what I needed, but it's not what I wanted.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean and what is that part of myself that I I find it sort of.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thinking about too, at least the stories that I had just told about Odysseus and then um Lyra and Historic Materials.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that that sort of waking up out of the sleep.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's slightly different because Odysseus is telling the story while he's sleeping, or you know, it's all happening conc concurrently.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But also it's like they're charging up.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: It it it's always right before like the big final battle.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's always right before the big final battle.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing that I'm thinking, you know, I I think about this in terms of the word to remember.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: To remember, to bring together again, to remember.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I never really think about it with forgetting.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Unpack that a little bit.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I it's just sort of occurring to me that forgetting, you could it's like it's forgetting.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: You when you forget, it's for getting something later.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's for getting the thing you can't get.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, especially if we're like saving up for the the the final battle.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't the word for mean ahead?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that isn't a Yeah, something that you're gonna get later.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a head, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Your forehead isn't is it the front of your head?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or for word, like going for but also uh four for is a I I think of like four grounds.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's more of a proposition.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Preposition for me, for you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: F-O-R, not F-O-R-E.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a preposition.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: For it's for getting.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's for getting later.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see what I'm saying?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would have to look that up.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I do see what you're saying in terms of the hominym, and it's really interesting to think about it in that way.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Just to kind of do that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: In the same way that to remember means to bring together again, to forget is to is forgetting.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I see what you're saying.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you can't get what it is that you want now, but if you forget now, if you forget now, then you will get later.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that kind of makes my head hurt.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really interesting to think about.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I literally just got a little stabbing pain, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to wrap my mind around.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh disclaimer on this podcast may cause stabbing pain in your right, Temple.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like on those days there were certain things though that I didn't forget.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't forget to eat.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't forget to brush my teeth.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't forget to take a shower.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what, I almost forgot this weekend to pay our freaking taxes.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, the taxes.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's one I would like to forget.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: That that's I'm telling you right now, I'd like to forget to pay my taxes.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it for me, it's like there's like a tier.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's the whole Maslow's hierarchy, there's Nissa's hierarchy of needs.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's Nissa's hierarchy of duties.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's Nissa's hierarchy of, you know, daily essential activities.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And like I'm not forgetting any day to drink coffee.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not, but I don't always make my lists.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is something we talked about, I think, in one of the first episodes is that when I'm really stressed out, I stop making lists.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm really stressed out, I start making lists.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I always know I'm deep in my shadow when I'm st when I'm making a list.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in my own dark materials when I'm making a list.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have to look so deep into myself to find that and bring it out.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's unconscious, it's not my preference to do that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and which it doesn't mean it doesn't exist in me, but it's like I have to throw it I have to throw a bucket down into the well.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is the way that I think about working with my unconscious.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I mean like s some of these are symbols that I've just kind of picked up that I use with myself and that um you know from sort of living in a way that is coherent with an understanding of the fact that my ego is not in charge.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I and you know as as as much as people as as much as many people in psychology today would sort of poo-poo psychoanalytic thinking or Jungian thinking for it being not scientific or it being you know kind of this you know you could get laughed out of the room in certain places where there are you know psychologists who are neurologically based.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: They think everything comes from the brain they're convinced that that's their story.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're sticking to it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have never found as much life or love in that story or frankly as much a practical applicability as in the story that there's something going on inside of me that is actually for my own good that contains things that will also sometimes hamstring me if I'm not paying attention.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like as much as it's there for my own good there are things inside of it that could really take me out.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: But but those are ultimately for your own good is that what you're saying living harmoniously as a human and so forgetting something like we did could could could be a way to pay attention to that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that this maybe is for our our best interest yeah like oh I forgot like and it's not me like there's something like there I have this inner ally that you have an inner ally I love that you have an inner ally like if if I think about myself with a capital S as this this inner ally who's really there for me.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know and some people might call that God.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure and I think that my inner ally or self is attached is divine in some way.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I I can't it's it's it's very mysterious and it's it's ineffable.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult to talk about these things.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the moment you the for me the moment they become overly conceptualized something gets lost right yeah which is why I like Zen so much because there is just this emphasis on the experience.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know the the direct experience as opposed to you know some sort of lofty um idea about the experience.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So for me like two of the most beautiful moments that happened over our weekend between us were when you said oh my god we forgot the podcast and we laughed.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah nobody was upset.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that laughter was so good.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah totally it was kind of like when we thought that the linear we had fought for this specific type of drain.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god and fought and fought and fought for this specific type of drain.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: This took weeks and they they replaced the whole shower floor they have to come in jackhammer it out again put the kind of drain I want in it and then I turn the shower on and I'm like the fucking thing doesn't drain.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: No it was like one minute shower and she's standing in a puddle.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Standing in a puddle it's literally not going down.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we call the plumber out and he comes out and it literally just had like a cover over it.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Had like a plastic cover had a plastic sheet over it.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: He pulls it off and he leaves it on the and he just points at it and he's like this is why it wasn't draining and he and I both laugh.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god they laugh so hard.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So hard so hard um I mean it could have been that's how we started last week the maniacal laughter of insanity is what it could have been but that moment the reason I laughed was because it was so numinous it was like right my like I was thinking that we thought we were like oh my god they're gonna have to redo the thing they're gonna have to pull it up again but also realizing that we forgot something so important to me felt like a very spiritual moment.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was like oh like I'm not in charge and thank God yeah totally I I want to share something with you that I didn't share with you last week.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: I should not be in charge no no no yeah me neither I um I had this morning and I don't know what day it was but both of these things happen in the same day.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: In the morning I unfortunately had fired up Instagram I try not to do that in the morning but it happens especially you say I fired it up like well I mean I don't know how everybody else says but it's like if I look at it in the morning I'm looking at it the rest of the day.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if I eat sugar early in the day I'm not eat sugar the rest of the day.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so especially in the morning when I'm like trying to do things it's like you know create before you consume I really believe in that mantra um but whatever I was sitting there and I forgot I find this video about um it was an interview with uh Liz Gilbert um who I really enjoy and she was talking about how anyways it didn't even matter what she was talking about but she said this term that I had forgotten about.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's like you know I I I suffer from um pronoia it's the opposite of paranoia.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and it's the belief that the world is actually conspiring for you.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and it just reminded me of that perspective which I kind of feel like is similar to what you were just saying right that the unconscious is doing it for you.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was just like oh yeah and this is right when we're in the midst of all this stuff this battle this epic battle going on um and I'm like alright alright I'll see it as that and then that same freaking day I am driving home from the office now I have a five minute drive y'all I'm driving down Hannah and the car in front of me has a license plate that says pronoya no way all the letters not even abbreviated spelled out pronoya and I'm like okay okay I get it I get it so that is a very strong synchronicity I mean that's the kind of stuff that like you can't make it up you can't make it up and I've been meaning to remember to tell you that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing what a great great experience pronoya yeah you pronoia the inner ally I mean you know and one of the things that I know too from my Jungian studies is that um when the ego becomes stressed it is more open to experiences of synchronicity.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so people who are I mean I have ex I have lots of synchronistic experiences and I think some of that is because I've gone through some really difficult things.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know it's like the universe does really throw me bones when I'm going through a hard time.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I have uh intentionally trained myself to look for them because it really helps me.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah no totally you know in these moments when it's just like what in the ever loving fuck is going on in this world You know I mean like just the news cycle in and of itself this week is I don't even want to put words to it some of the stuff that's going on.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know but um and I think that's kind of been taking a bit of a that's been draining some of my own psychic energy too the wars that we're in.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know the war in Iran, what's going on in Ukraine, what's going on in this country with this increase in violent with the increase in violence that's like not behind the curtain anymore in a way um and i anywho I think it's been affecting me.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know and um so yeah it's like these do you know what I mean by the universe throwing me a bone it's total did you feel like that with the license plate?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely absolutely I was like because it's like it's not it wasn't a bumper sticker that was like ooh believe in good things around you or anything.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like literally the same word.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was a pretty significant word the first time I saw it and you know wow yeah that's just a really great place to wrap up the episode on the what what what can you do to fan the fire of the belief that the universe is conspiring for you and not against you that forgetting that forgetting can be to your benefit.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean so I guess my questions would be you know like to the listener like uh what have you forgotten?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: What are you forgetting?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I'm sure that you're thinking about all those things right now anyway just listening to us.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd be curious reframe on forgetting because for me like forgetting on its own is just like kind of shampoo.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know oh I forgot.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well I mean But it's like oh actually it could be a forgetting can be a gift.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's definitely for me a sign of resistance.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh and to just acknowledge that that it that that you know there was a part of me that was trying to push through this weekend.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and and and there was another part of me that was resisting that was like no sleep poppies poppy of us sleep and you know it's right before they go they get to the Emerald City.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly it's always right before the last push uh right before the last push I mean does that happen in childbirth where mom will like sleep towards the end I didn't never have that experience no or I think isn't I think that there I'd have to look it up but I feel like there is a term where it kind of like slows down a little bit right yeah I think like right before you really start pushing I think what I recall was after transition there was transition there was that's the term when there was there was definitely a moment between second and third stage yeah where it was like oh okay now the baby's gonna come also there's a descent involved with that right because the baby's ascending down yeah totally so it all kind of follows the same metaphor a little bit well that's that fractal nature of the universe these patterns that keep repeating and this is why I love syncretic thinking you know like synthesizing things and um yeah really cool really cool so we'll continue on with our yeah so unless something else happens the next episode will be all about the pelvis that's the plan that'll that'll be a nice little birth metaphor to continue this on with yes and um we're you know this is not like our intentionality series where we you know really just plugged away at at that but it is a a uh semi-series on the body that we're just sort of exploring and going through and um to be continued TBD I mean T B C right yep um well thank you all for listening if you have enjoyed this please leave us a rating follow us subscribe send it to your friends um maybe put it in a greeting card with a QR code for Christmas and um you know come back next week where we will see you once again on Being Different together