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Girlfriend Decapitated After Refusing Sex · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Not just murdered, but murdered one hundred times over. Think
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Speaker 1: about that, not just murdered, but murdered one hundred times over.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Series XIM
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Speaker 1: one eleven. Listen to this. Saturday afternoon, deputies received a
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Speaker 1: call for a welfare check on Bailey Drive in Springville,
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Speaker 1: the call coming from Tammy Bailey's sister, who was also
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Speaker 1: her next door neighbor. Sheriff Moon says Bailey was stabbed
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Speaker 1: more than one hundred times, but that wasn't even the
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Speaker 1: most disturbing part. She was beheaded and her one of
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Speaker 1: her lower limbs was cut almost completely off, and we
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Speaker 1: believed the very first blow, which was straight to the
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Speaker 1: chest through her heart, we believed that was lethal blow.
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Speaker 1: Some of the victims family members live right next door.
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Speaker 1: We're talking about twenty feet or so away from where
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Speaker 1: Tammy was murdered. Did you hear that stabbed over one
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Speaker 1: hundred times, murdered one hundred times over, then dismembered. But
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Speaker 1: why you were hearing our friends at ABC NWVTM, that
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Speaker 1: is an entirely different way of thinking, a different mindset
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Speaker 1: not just to kill, but to overkill, and the mind
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Speaker 1: of a stabber is different from the minds of all
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Speaker 1: other killers. This scene so disturbed. Take a listen to
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Speaker 1: what the sheriff says to investigators and the crime scene.
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Speaker 1: Take who was one of my patrol lieutenants that responded
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Speaker 1: to this scene. They probably have close to one hundred
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Speaker 1: years combined experience in law enforcement, and they said, this
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Speaker 1: is the worst thing that they've ever seen. Sheriff Moon says, Now,
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Speaker 1: mental health for his deputies is top of mind, but
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Speaker 1: resources for that help are lacking state wide. But it
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Speaker 1: is something I think that the state really needs to
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Speaker 1: look into, not just for dealing with mental health on
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Speaker 1: the outside, but you know, helping us in all law enforcement,
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Speaker 1: you know, across the state to try to find some
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Speaker 1: some avenues and some resources for our guys. Just imagine
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Speaker 1: this a murder scene so upsetting, so disturbing, the sheriff
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Speaker 1: immediately goes into protection mode for his deputies that were
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Speaker 1: so upset by the murder scene, stabbed over one hundred
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Speaker 1: times and then partially dismembered then left there. But this
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Speaker 1: type of murder phenomena is not new. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to this theme, exactly what happened? I think that's love?
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Speaker 1: What what do you mean by that? What happened? I
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Speaker 1: had a dream and then I turned on the lights
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Speaker 1: and she stood on the floor. How how I'm blood?
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Speaker 1: I'm kind of blood all over me and there's a
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Speaker 1: bloody knife on the bed and I think I did it? Okay,
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Speaker 1: she is he awaken? All right? Now? What makes you
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Speaker 1: think she's dead? Does she? Wait? She thought breathed? Okay,
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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, do you think he is bond
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Speaker 1: beyond any help? I hope though too scared to get
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Speaker 1: too close to her. Okay, just down the phone with me, sir.
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Speaker 1: I'm here with you. I'm here with you. I scared
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Speaker 1: you are hearing the nine one one call associated with
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Speaker 1: a so called cough syrup killer Matthew Phelps. Listen to this.
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Speaker 1: The autopsy report gives us a lot more insight into
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Speaker 1: what Lauren Phelps endured that night, And as you mentioned,
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Speaker 1: I did sit down with a defense attorney to really
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Speaker 1: delve into the claim that her husband did this all
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Speaker 1: under the influence of cough medicine. A medical examiner says
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Speaker 1: one hundred twenty three cuts and stab wounds were found
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Speaker 1: on Lauren Phelps's body, more than forty on her face
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Speaker 1: and neck, more than twenty on her torso, and dozens
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Speaker 1: more on her arms. Her husband, Matthew Phelps, is charged
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Speaker 1: and says too much courticin Kaugh medicine is to blame. Okay.
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Speaker 1: Then he said he had a bad dream about it.
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Speaker 1: That reminds me of O. J. Simpson having that bad
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Speaker 1: dream about murdering Nicole Brown. It's funny how killers seemed
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Speaker 1: to have premonitions. Oh, just like Scott Peterson did. He
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Speaker 1: had the premonition that he would be a widow and
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Speaker 1: this would be his first Christmas without his life Lacy.
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Speaker 1: And guess what it was after he killed her. So
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Speaker 1: you've got them stacking up. People that choose stabbing as
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Speaker 1: an mo modus operandi method of operation to commit murder.
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Speaker 1: Their mindset unlike any other stabbers mindset with me and
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Speaker 1: I'll star panel to make sense of what we know.
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Speaker 1: Right now, we're talking about the case of Tammy Bailly
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Speaker 1: who was found stabbed one hundred times and partially dismembered.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to go out to a special guest, Kira Purvis,
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Speaker 1: ABC thirty three in Birmingham. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: You can find her on Twitter at Kira Purvis Underscore TV. Kyra,
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Speaker 1: tell me what exactly was found inside the home when
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Speaker 1: Tammy Bailey was found dead. They found her in the
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Speaker 1: home laying on the ground, head near her feet and
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Speaker 1: one of her lower limbs separated from her body. Oh my,
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Speaker 1: gonna stop right there. Kyra Purvis joining me ABC thirty
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Speaker 1: three and forty in Birmingham. I was just thinking when
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Speaker 1: you said they found her with her head near her feet,
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Speaker 1: I was thinking at first that she was bent over double.
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Speaker 1: We covered a story and I investigated as well the
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Speaker 1: other day of a child, a little boy being folded
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Speaker 1: over and put in a suitcase, and then another similar
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Speaker 1: case where Heather Mack murdered her mother and folded her
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Speaker 1: up in a suitcase. And I was thinking about this woman,
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Speaker 1: Tammy Bailey. When you set her head near her feet,
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Speaker 1: it's not because she was folded over, Tyra, It's because
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Speaker 1: she was dismembered. Some of the sheriffs told me that
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Speaker 1: it was the worst thing that they've ever seen. They've
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Speaker 1: never seen anything like it, Like they were talking about
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Speaker 1: with mental health. They don't know how their officers are
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Speaker 1: going to deal with being something like this with me.
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Speaker 1: Is Kyra Purvis Special Guests joining us ABC thirty three
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Speaker 1: forty You know, jo Scott Morgan, I want to follow
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Speaker 1: up on what Kyridge just says. You got a lot
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Speaker 1: more to tell us, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author
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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and start to
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Speaker 1: hit series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott,
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Speaker 1: are you ever so saturated? You're a death investigator, that's
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Speaker 1: your profession. Do you ever get so saturated you feel
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Speaker 1: you just can't take it anymore? Yeah, to a certain degree.
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Speaker 1: But for patrol officers a little bit different, Nancy. You know,
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Speaker 1: they might be coming off of, say, for instance, a
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Speaker 1: missing child case. They might be coming off of a
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Speaker 1: burglar alarm, and the next thing you know, they get
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Speaker 1: this call that's kind of unknown and they show up
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Speaker 1: and it's a real shock to their system. Look, I
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Speaker 1: signed up for this to be a medical legal death investigator.
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Speaker 1: I know that every scene I'd gone is going to
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Speaker 1: be death after death after death. For them, it's a
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Speaker 1: little bit different, and this is why they get hammered
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Speaker 1: so hard when they respond to these kind of cases.
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Speaker 1: In an acute sense. For us, it's kind of a
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Speaker 1: chronic way of living. But for them it's really hard
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Speaker 1: to come back from this. Doctor Scott A. Johnson joining me,
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Speaker 1: forensic psychologist joining us out of Minnesota, thirty two years
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Speaker 1: in the business, Author and the star in a sense
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Speaker 1: at Forensic Consultation dot Org. Doctor Johnson the other day, well,
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Speaker 1: it's almost every day when we're getting in the car
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Speaker 1: to take the twins to school, I say, you remember
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Speaker 1: my friend, the old Georgia State Patrol officer told me
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Speaker 1: I've never pulled a live body out of a buckle
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Speaker 1: seat belt. That's all it takes. I can hear the
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Speaker 1: buckles starts snapping. One day, I said it, and I
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Speaker 1: think it was Lucy in the backseat. She said, Mom,
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Speaker 1: do you think he ever got tired of seeing dead bodies?
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Speaker 1: And it just hit me he probably did. How this
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Speaker 1: scene with Tammy Bailey stabbed over one hundred times and
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Speaker 1: dismembered was so upsetting the officers had to go in
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Speaker 1: for therapy after they saw what happened. How do you
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Speaker 1: deal with something like that? Of course, you are dealing
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Speaker 1: with what we still call post traumatic stress, you know,
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Speaker 1: the unexpected extreme event, A lot of it is just
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Speaker 1: processing the scene. You know, what did we come upon
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Speaker 1: and how did we react? And mostly what are we
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Speaker 1: going to do with it? You know, we talk about it.
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Speaker 1: We need to talk about it. We may never see
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Speaker 1: such a horrific scene again. However, we're not really prepared upfront, tuciate.
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Speaker 1: You know, no training can prepare you to see such carnage.
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Speaker 1: Not to Tyra Purvis joining us ABC thirty three forty Tira,
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Speaker 1: what parts of her body were dismembered on top of
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Speaker 1: being stabbed one hundred times? Well, Nancy, we have her
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Speaker 1: head that was, like we said before, right beside her feet,
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Speaker 1: and then we also have her lower limb that would
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Speaker 1: semi detached, with a completely detached semi detached. Sounds like
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Speaker 1: he just got tired of doing it, because it's got
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Speaker 1: to be a guy. He very rarely hit. I mean,
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Speaker 1: look at the stats. I'm not just hypothesizing. You don't
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Speaker 1: really hear of that many women that are dismembering people
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Speaker 1: therefore hiding the body or trying to dissolve it with
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Speaker 1: some type of a chemical not for dismembering. So he
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Speaker 1: do I have this right, Kyra? He decapitates her and
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Speaker 1: then begins to chop up her entire body by taking
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Speaker 1: off one leg and it just kind of quits. Yep,
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Speaker 1: that's basically what happens. Okay again, it's not the first time.
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Speaker 1: I just told you about the cough syrup killer. But
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Speaker 1: there's more. Do you remember the name Marvin Weller out
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Speaker 1: of Palm Springs? Listen to our friends at WPBF. Two
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Speaker 1: months after Melvin Weller filed for divorce, Palm Springs police
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Speaker 1: arrived at his home February eleventh to find Weller lying
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Speaker 1: in the pool of blood that covered more than half
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Speaker 1: of the kitchen floor, with multiple stab wounds and lacerations
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Speaker 1: on his body. An autopsy revealing Weller had been stabbed
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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty times all over his body, and
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Speaker 1: he also had a skull fracture caused by a blow
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Speaker 1: from a meat cleaver to the right rear of his head.
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Speaker 1: Police say they found knives and a meat cleaver in
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Speaker 1: the kitchen sink, a bloody nightgown and a trash bag
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Speaker 1: near the body, and in the bedroom they discovered Weller's wife,
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Speaker 1: Joan Burke, with cuts on her hands and not saying
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Speaker 1: a word. Gee, I wonder who did that? Prime Stories
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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Two months after Melvyn Weller filed for divorce.
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Speaker 1: Palm Springs police arrived at his home February eleventh to
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Speaker 1: find Weller lying in a pool of blood that covered
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Speaker 1: more than half of the kitchen floor, with multiple stab
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Speaker 1: wounds and lacerations on his body. An autopsy revealing Weller
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Speaker 1: had been stabbed one hundred and forty times all over
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Speaker 1: his body, and he also had a skull fracture caused
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Speaker 1: by a blow from a meat cleaver to the right
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Speaker 1: rear of his head. Police say they found knives and
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Speaker 1: a meat cleaver in the kitchen sink, a bloody nightgown
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Speaker 1: and a trash bag near the body, and in the
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Speaker 1: bedroom they discovered Weller's wife, Joan Burke, with cuts on
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Speaker 1: her hands and not saying a word. Gee, I wonder
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Speaker 1: who did that? A bloody nightgown that the victims not wearing,
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Speaker 1: and the wife sitting there stone cold well taking listen
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Speaker 1: out of our freens. At Khou eleven, she buried her
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Speaker 1: husband in their Northwest Terrace County backyard in a hole
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Speaker 1: he had dug for a home improvement project. Days later,
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Speaker 1: the family dog unearthed him. He stabbed him Susan Wright,
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Speaker 1: twenty seven, mother of two and murder defendant, is some
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Speaker 1: well offer navigence, I think it. Prosecutors said the unhappy
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Speaker 1: wife had lured her husband, Jeffrey Wright, to his deathbed
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Speaker 1: with the promise of romance. Jeffrey Wright was ultimately stabbed
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Speaker 1: one hundred ninety three times and tortured with hot candlewax. Okay,
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Speaker 1: what about that? Are you starting to see a pattern here?
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Speaker 1: Joe scut Morgan, both of these victims were stabbed over
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Speaker 1: one hundred times and then it was capped off one
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Speaker 1: with the blow to the head and now with a
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Speaker 1: meat cleaver. I guess one hundred and forty stab wounds
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Speaker 1: wasn't enough. You have to do that final touch. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: what you see, You know you'd mentioned this earlier, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: What you see is just a real basic fact of physiology.
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Speaker 1: There's fatigue that sets in. You can only do this
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Speaker 1: so many times over and over and over again, and
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Speaker 1: the people will get tired. And that's why you see
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Speaker 1: in a lot of these cases you'll see but refer
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Speaker 1: to as partial dismemberments, because after an individual, say, for instance,
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Speaker 1: to have someone this many times, then their face with
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Speaker 1: the prospect of having to dispose of a remain and
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Speaker 1: that is daunting in and of itself, particularly if you're
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Speaker 1: not equipped with the right tools. And so they'll get
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Speaker 1: halfway through the process and they'll just kind of throw
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Speaker 1: their hands up in frustration, that would seem at least,
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Speaker 1: and then the police walk in and they see an
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Speaker 1: absolute horror show. You know, it amazes me that you
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Speaker 1: manage to kill someone stab them one hundred plus times.
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Speaker 1: Then you go, Okay, I'm trying to dismembering. I'm just
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Speaker 1: gonna stop. But that we're seeing that they go through
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Speaker 1: all of this and with a special mindset of a
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Speaker 1: stabber that only a stabber has, and then they quit halfway,
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Speaker 1: or at least in the cases we're telling you about now.
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Speaker 1: James Shelnu joining me twenty seven years Metro major case,
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Speaker 1: former SWAT, now lawyer at the Shellnut Law Firm dot com. James,
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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this because very often people go,
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Speaker 1: why take a listen to Darcy Thomas Fox thirteen. Well,
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Speaker 1: it started over the taste of coffee. But now one
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Speaker 1: man is dead and his wife has been charged with
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Speaker 1: his murder. Memphis police says Sheila Downey stabbed her husband
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Speaker 1: to death yesterday at a home on Renwood Street. Now,
15:14
Speaker 1: before the victim died, police say he told them that
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Speaker 1: the two got in an argument over the taste of
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Speaker 1: his coffee. He says, Downey got angry, she grabbed a
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Speaker 1: knife and then stabbed him multiple times. Police say that
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Speaker 1: Downey originally drove away from the scene, but it was
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Speaker 1: arrested when she returned. Okay, James Shelnut not as if
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Speaker 1: the state ever has to prove motive, which they do not,
15:39
Speaker 1: but practically speaking, jurars like to hear a motive that
15:44
Speaker 1: was over him commenting that the coffee taste bad and
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Speaker 1: he got stabbed multiple times to his death. Well, that
15:52
Speaker 1: was the straw that both at Campbell's back. But you know, Nason,
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Speaker 1: when you go back and you look at these cases, Oh,
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Speaker 1: you're saying that him complaining about the coffee was the straw,
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Speaker 1: because I'm surprised my husband has the stabbed me five
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Speaker 1: hundred times over after all the you know, wedding, I
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Speaker 1: do day in and day out about this, that and
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Speaker 1: the other thing. But let's just stop just a second.
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Speaker 1: So you're saying that him commenting over the bad taste
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Speaker 1: of the coffee that was just it. So he got
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Speaker 1: stabbed head. That is what you said. That is what
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Speaker 1: you said. If you go back and you look at that,
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Speaker 1: and you look at most of these stabbings where a
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Speaker 1: person is stabbed repeatedly, especially by a domestic partner, there
16:32
Speaker 1: has been a long standing relationship that has brewed into hatred,
16:38
Speaker 1: and when that person starts the stabbing process, it's not
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Speaker 1: just over that one thing that they began arguing. It's
16:45
Speaker 1: over that entire history, and they're out to destroy that person,
16:48
Speaker 1: to obliterate them, because this hatred and this anger has
16:52
Speaker 1: built up and it manifests into a gruesome crimsy. See
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Speaker 1: you haven't been could jump in, go ahead, doctor Johnson. Okay,
17:01
Speaker 1: well and right on. I was going to say, you
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Speaker 1: know that that resentment that's been brewing, the anchor, the repulsiveness,
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Speaker 1: the frustration, and then just simply that prerogative to finally
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Speaker 1: just vent. But unfortunately now you're you're releasing months and months,
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Speaker 1: if not years, of pimped up frustration. So yeah, something
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Speaker 1: so stupidly simple as a taste of coffee was the
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Speaker 1: last straw for this person's delusional mind. Can you say delusion?
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Speaker 1: You're suggesting they're insane because they're not. I'm saying, delusion
17:35
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be insane. We all have false beliefs
17:39
Speaker 1: we hold even though they're not always right on. But
17:42
Speaker 1: in their head they justify that if I can't have you,
17:46
Speaker 1: if you can't be satisfied, if you can't please me,
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Speaker 1: that's in their head they're justified in doing what they're
17:53
Speaker 1: doing hundred percent saying hundred percent thought through. But then
17:57
Speaker 1: you've got this rage, just lave being out like a volcano.
18:02
Speaker 1: And that's what we see with these multiple stabbings. You know,
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Speaker 1: shell Nutt seemingly is always right in his analysis, and
18:10
Speaker 1: what he said was not what I expected at all.
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Speaker 1: Remember he was a street cop for many, many years.
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Speaker 1: I was expecting something else after answering multiple homicide calls.
18:23
Speaker 1: Now you two gentlemen, Scott doctor Scott Johnson and James
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Speaker 1: shell nut are saying that these mass stabbings are the
18:31
Speaker 1: result of years and years I pent up frustration. Well,
18:36
Speaker 1: let me reintroduce you to the stabbing queen. Take a
18:41
Speaker 1: listen to this. What's going on. Our friend of ours
18:45
Speaker 1: is dead in his bedroom. We hadn't heard from for
18:48
Speaker 1: a while. We think his roommates was going in there,
18:51
Speaker 1: and so they bought to blood. I didn't go in that.
18:55
Speaker 1: I can give you the phone to someone who went
18:57
Speaker 1: in there. Yes, please, HI, what's going on? He's dead.
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Speaker 1: He's in his bedroom in the shower. Okay, how did
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Speaker 1: this happen? Do you have any idea? We have no idea.
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Speaker 1: Everyone's been wondering about him for a few days. She
19:14
Speaker 1: said that there's blood, So is it coming from his head?
19:17
Speaker 1: Did he it's all over the place. Had he been
19:21
Speaker 1: threatened by anyone recently? He hasn't. His an ex girlfriend's
19:25
Speaker 1: been bothering him and following him in, flashing tires and
19:29
Speaker 1: things like that. And you know the ex girlfriends in
19:33
Speaker 1: his Her name is Jodi Arius. Jody Arius. She stabbed
19:38
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander at least thirty times. Many of the stabbed
19:43
Speaker 1: wounds were overlapping each other, so can't really tell how
19:46
Speaker 1: many times she stabbed him, but at least thirty. Then,
19:50
Speaker 1: as in the other cases we have analyzed for you,
19:53
Speaker 1: she caps it off with a gunshot wound. Too. They
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Speaker 1: had They hadn't been together for years and years and years.
20:03
Speaker 1: As doctor Johnson and shell Nutt are describing, she was
20:07
Speaker 1: poed technical legal term because she had been dating Travis Alexander.
20:13
Speaker 1: She wanted to marry him. She even converted to Mormonism
20:16
Speaker 1: for him, and he broke up with her because she
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Speaker 1: has snakes in her head and she wanted him back desperately.
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Speaker 1: So she travels literally across the desert, hiding her tracks,
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Speaker 1: has a marathon day of sex, sex, sex sex. When
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Speaker 1: he still insists on taking another woman on a camcane shrip,
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Speaker 1: she stabs him dead and leaves him to decompose in
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Speaker 1: a damp shower. Take a listen to our friend Ryan Owens,
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Speaker 1: the thirty year old businessman and developed Mormon, had been
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Speaker 1: stabbed twenty seven times, his throat slit so deep he
20:51
Speaker 1: was almost decapitated, and he was shot in the head.
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Speaker 1: This is over, This is absolutely over. You need to
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Speaker 1: tell me truth. On the tape, Arias repeatedly denies she
21:05
Speaker 1: was at Alexander's house the day of the crime, even
21:08
Speaker 1: after the ever patient detective confronts her with racy pictures
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Speaker 1: of her in his bed that day, and even after
21:17
Speaker 1: he tells Arius her palm print was found at the
21:20
Speaker 1: bloody crime scene. I don't know if you heard that,
21:25
Speaker 1: she said, how could that be my palm print? Because
21:27
Speaker 1: she killed him? And not only that, Ding Dong accidentally
21:31
Speaker 1: took a picture off her own leg and foot with
21:35
Speaker 1: a digital camera. She was taking all those porn pictures
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Speaker 1: of herself with at the crime. Sana ended up in
21:41
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander's Washington dryer set. Well, I wasn't gonna play
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Speaker 1: this for you, but Jackie I can't resist it. Don't
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Speaker 1: worry too much about Jodi Arius. Yes, she's behind bars
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Speaker 1: now for multiple stabbings. Jes Scott and I argue vehemently
21:57
Speaker 1: over whether it was twenty nine or thirty stab wounds,
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Speaker 1: not twenty seven. But she went on to even greater fame.
22:05
Speaker 1: She won America's Got Talent behind bars with this. Listen,
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Speaker 1: Oh Holy night, the stars are Bridley Shineing is a
22:20
Speaker 1: night of our dear sys longly word and singing. Ever
22:31
Speaker 1: piety appeared in the Soul Fountains word Okay, next time,
22:39
Speaker 1: please play the part where she hits the high note,
22:41
Speaker 1: and she does, in fact hit it. Okay. Here she
22:46
Speaker 1: is singing, Ohoe night after she stabs Alexander thirty times,
22:52
Speaker 1: severs his head from his neck, and shoots him in
22:56
Speaker 1: the head. We've got quite the list of stabbers, but
23:03
Speaker 1: Jo's got Morgan that was not part of a long
23:07
Speaker 1: simmering feud. She had only known him for about a
23:11
Speaker 1: year or so. Yeah. Yeah, And I think a lot
23:13
Speaker 1: of it has to do with a trigger mechanism in
23:16
Speaker 1: some of these people's mind. What are you saying, trigger mechanism.
23:19
Speaker 1: Don't talk that way. I talk like a regular person,
23:23
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, something that absolutely pushes them over the edge.
23:27
Speaker 1: You make it kind of sound like it's the victim's fault. No,
23:30
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it is at all. As
23:32
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I think it's something wrong in
23:34
Speaker 1: the mechanisms of these people's brains, where you know, they
23:38
Speaker 1: see themselves as owning these people and they're going to
23:41
Speaker 1: rip them to shreds if they can't. You know how
23:43
Speaker 1: many times have we looked over those images of Travis
23:46
Speaker 1: Alexander and you see that he is absolutely shredded at
23:51
Speaker 1: that scene, you know, so much so that you know
23:55
Speaker 1: she couldn't just stop with the stabbing, She couldn't just
23:58
Speaker 1: stop with the slashing. She actually put a round in
24:01
Speaker 1: his head, and that round was actually a post mortem event.
24:04
Speaker 1: He was dead. There's no hemorrhage in that wound track.
24:07
Speaker 1: So you know, for me, it's it's this it's this
24:10
Speaker 1: kernel that was planted long, long before she ever met
24:14
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander. She's got screw loose and that's why she
24:17
Speaker 1: did that. Jo Scott, can I just get you to
24:20
Speaker 1: please stay in your line. I know that a lot
24:23
Speaker 1: of people frown on that, but let me see. You
24:26
Speaker 1: are professor forensics correct. Oh yeah, yeah, that's I mean
24:30
Speaker 1: you don't have your m d and your specialty in
24:32
Speaker 1: psychologist psychiatry, do you. No. I don't want it either. Yeah,
24:36
Speaker 1: me either. You know, I got enough problems I don't
24:38
Speaker 1: need to try to figure them all out by being
24:41
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. Hey, doctor Johnson, we heard Joscot Morgan's technical
24:48
Speaker 1: medical analysis that Aris has a quote screw loose. I
24:55
Speaker 1: kind of agree with you, Joe Scott. That's the irony here.
24:57
Speaker 1: But she is not insane. Did you hear her sticking
25:02
Speaker 1: to her guns and lying to the bitter end that
25:06
Speaker 1: she did not do it? In fact, according to her,
25:09
Speaker 1: two guys dressed up all in black like ninjas broke
25:14
Speaker 1: into the home and inexplicably murder Travis and let her
25:18
Speaker 1: live and Ultimately she went with self defense, right. But
25:23
Speaker 1: what we've got here is over the course of her lifetime,
25:26
Speaker 1: this has been developing, and it doesn't have to be
25:29
Speaker 1: the same victim that they finally kill that's been brought brooding,
25:33
Speaker 1: this pool of resentment and frustration, and of course, like
25:38
Speaker 1: someone like Jodie there is very narcissistic and self centered
25:42
Speaker 1: and you know, if you harm me, I'm going to
25:45
Speaker 1: harm you. But how she defines it in her head,
25:48
Speaker 1: she's not mentally unstable. She's not mentally ill. I hate
25:52
Speaker 1: it when people say that. But she's simply twisted. And
25:55
Speaker 1: we've got personality disorders. That's not mental illness, that's just
25:59
Speaker 1: a brooked way of thinking and processing. I'm trying to
26:02
Speaker 1: digest everything you just said because it all sounds pretty
26:05
Speaker 1: brilliant to me. Did you hear everything he said? Jack Okay?
26:08
Speaker 1: James shell Nut, twenty seven years Metro Major Case. James,
26:12
Speaker 1: You know, first thing I do every morning is flip
26:17
Speaker 1: on and find online and find all crime going on
26:23
Speaker 1: around the world is making headlines. And I always notice,
26:29
Speaker 1: because it's so early about five am, that the crime
26:33
Speaker 1: I'm reading about to start with, it's in different countries
26:36
Speaker 1: including Great Britain, and I remember saying to David one morning,
26:40
Speaker 1: I'm like, why is everybody getting stabbed in Great Britain.
26:44
Speaker 1: They well, it's because they don't have access to guns
26:48
Speaker 1: the way we do in the US, so their mo
26:51
Speaker 1: is very often by stabbing. That said shell Nut. I
26:58
Speaker 1: see a distinct different friends. Although I'm not a shrink
27:01
Speaker 1: like doctor Johnson, I see a distinct difference in the
27:05
Speaker 1: mindset of a stabber versus a shooter. Do you can
27:10
Speaker 1: you can you verbalize it? Yeah? I can verbalize it.
27:13
Speaker 1: I think that it is by the way you said that.
27:15
Speaker 1: Remember beep out all cursewords, Jackie, go ahead. Here's what
27:19
Speaker 1: I believe. I believe that the offender, the criminal that
27:23
Speaker 1: con miss this act, believes that they have been up
27:28
Speaker 1: close and personally offended, that they've been up close and
27:32
Speaker 1: personally hurt, that they've personally been attacked by the person
27:35
Speaker 1: that they're about to kill, and they use this up
27:38
Speaker 1: close and personal method to kill to attempt to destroy
27:42
Speaker 1: that person. And I'm not certain that it's always planned
27:46
Speaker 1: out when you have someone stabbed that many times. I
27:49
Speaker 1: think it's a situation where we discussed earlier, has been
27:51
Speaker 1: built up and all of a sudden they have something
27:55
Speaker 1: close to them, a knife in the kitchen or some
27:57
Speaker 1: other some other tools that they're able to stab the
28:00
Speaker 1: person will, and that it's a convenience factor, that it
28:04
Speaker 1: is a spur of the moment factor. They didn't plan it.
28:07
Speaker 1: Oftentimes you don't see a bag with gloves or gun
28:10
Speaker 1: or tape or rope. You just see them pick up
28:12
Speaker 1: a knock, will pick up a one object sometimes even
28:15
Speaker 1: and just obliterate this person because they snapped. And that's
28:19
Speaker 1: what's closes by all of the examples that I agree
28:23
Speaker 1: by the way James Slant, all of the examples that
28:26
Speaker 1: we've been showing you regarding multiple stabbers, I'm not saying
28:31
Speaker 1: mass stabbers, because that would suggest that you stabbed a
28:34
Speaker 1: lot of people. I'm saying multiple stabbers where you stab
28:39
Speaker 1: one victim over and over and over, as in this
28:43
Speaker 1: case with Tammy, Tammy Billy being stabbed one hundred times plus. Now,
28:50
Speaker 1: who would do this? In those cases the victims all
28:55
Speaker 1: knew the stabbers, they knew them very well intimately. Who
29:02
Speaker 1: would do this to Tammy Bailey? Well, here's a big clue.
29:09
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend's ABC thirty three forty.
29:13
Speaker 1: Upon arrival, Blown County deputies found Justin Fields outside. Mister
29:17
Speaker 1: Fields just kept saying things like I've done something really bad.
29:20
Speaker 1: Evidences in the house, and it made my deputy extremely nervous.
29:25
Speaker 1: They then moved into the home and found Bailey decapitated
29:29
Speaker 1: with around one hundred stab wounds. I guess it did
29:33
Speaker 1: make the deputy nervous. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back
29:52
Speaker 1: to Kyra Purvis joining us special guest investigative reporter with
29:55
Speaker 1: ABC thirty forty. Kyra, again, thanks for being with us. So,
30:00
Speaker 1: describe the scene when the Blood County deputies got there.
30:04
Speaker 1: This guy, Justin Fields was outside and what was it
30:09
Speaker 1: that he kept saying. He kept saying, I think I've
30:12
Speaker 1: done something bad. I've done something terrible. The evidences inside.
30:16
Speaker 1: He even told deputies. You know, they said they were
30:18
Speaker 1: going to put him in handcuffs, and he said, go ahead,
30:21
Speaker 1: you're going to put me in handcuffs after you find
30:23
Speaker 1: with inside. Anyway, you know, I'm always suspicious, doctor Scott Johnson,
30:27
Speaker 1: when you come up on a scene and a civilian
30:29
Speaker 1: starts talking about evidence, Yes, I mean, certainly someone that
30:33
Speaker 1: has some education, you know, self education about crime scenes. Unfortunately,
30:38
Speaker 1: they watched the shows on TV, which oftentimes depict good
30:43
Speaker 1: police investigative procedure. And so this person had thoughts about
30:50
Speaker 1: this was not you know, I'm not saying it was
30:53
Speaker 1: premeditated that day, but it was certainly a conscious choice
30:57
Speaker 1: with the same mind that he committed the rhyme, and
31:01
Speaker 1: he simply was smart enough to know I'm not walking
31:04
Speaker 1: away from this. Another thing about it, James shell nutt
31:08
Speaker 1: He refers to Tammy's partially dismembered body as evidence. Yeah,
31:14
Speaker 1: he refers to his evidence because he knows what he's done.
31:16
Speaker 1: He knows that it's the fruit of the crime. He
31:19
Speaker 1: knows he's committed the criminal wact. He knows what he's doing.
31:21
Speaker 1: He's looked back and figured out what he's done. He
31:23
Speaker 1: knows he's got a problem. He knows that there's no
31:25
Speaker 1: way out of big problem, a hundred plus problems, Doctor Johnson.
31:30
Speaker 1: Shell Nut's right, But I guess I'm trying to verbalize
31:33
Speaker 1: something internally, internally different. He's referring to this person, this
31:40
Speaker 1: young woman, Tammy Bailey, as evidence, not as a woman,
31:47
Speaker 1: not as a beautiful woman, not as my friend, no
31:53
Speaker 1: personification whatsoever. He refers to her dead, mutilated body as evidence.
32:00
Speaker 1: That's not bothering anybody but me what was wrong. But
32:03
Speaker 1: he's detached emotionally from this, and to say that he
32:07
Speaker 1: had an intimate connection with her, he didn't. They may
32:10
Speaker 1: have had sex and may updated, but emotionally she was
32:13
Speaker 1: a thing an object. And so after this crime and
32:17
Speaker 1: a heck of a lot easier to say, you know,
32:19
Speaker 1: I killed something than it is to say I killed
32:22
Speaker 1: the person that I really like or love. But really
32:24
Speaker 1: it's a distancing type of language. So you know, he's
32:29
Speaker 1: just not wanting to own up to the full of
32:32
Speaker 1: I killed someone that I was actually involved with or
32:35
Speaker 1: trusted me. Yeah, I just remember the woman that stabbed
32:39
Speaker 1: her husband multiple times when he told her the coffee
32:41
Speaker 1: tasted bad. Of course, you remember Arius who stabbed Alexander
32:47
Speaker 1: because he would not take her on a camcoon trip.
32:50
Speaker 1: I hope you're all sitting down. You may need to
32:51
Speaker 1: lay down for this one. Talk about motive. Take a
32:55
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at wb RC Fox six. Thirty
32:58
Speaker 1: eight year old Justin Felds and fifty two year old
33:01
Speaker 1: Tammy Bailey lived together here on Bailey Drive in Blunt County.
33:06
Speaker 1: Sheriff Mark Moon tells me the couple just celebrated his birthday,
33:10
Speaker 1: but when they got home from a trip on October
33:12
Speaker 1: twenty first, Fields tells police he went into her room
33:15
Speaker 1: and stabbed her. He wanted to have sex with her,
33:20
Speaker 1: so he went into her bedroom and propositioned her and
33:26
Speaker 1: she turned it down, and according to his statement, that
33:30
Speaker 1: frustrated him, and he said that he stabbed her one
33:34
Speaker 1: time and then he blacked out. It's really convenient how
33:39
Speaker 1: people after they committed murder, or in the midst of
33:42
Speaker 1: her murder black out. For those of you that can't
33:47
Speaker 1: see me, I'm definitely using air quoties. So wait, he
33:50
Speaker 1: wants to have sex? She says no, So he stabs
33:55
Speaker 1: her one hundred plus times and chops her head off.
33:58
Speaker 1: What he can listen to our friends at w VT
34:02
Speaker 1: M thirteen. Fields told deputies that frustrated him, so he
34:06
Speaker 1: stabbed her once in the chest. He then claims to
34:09
Speaker 1: have blacked out. He woke up and thought he was
34:12
Speaker 1: having a bad dream and went in there and stabber
34:16
Speaker 1: some more. Kyra Herb is joining me from ABC thirty
34:19
Speaker 1: three forty Kyra, what could you explain that? So he says,
34:25
Speaker 1: I want sex? She says no, so he stabs her,
34:28
Speaker 1: goes into his room, blacks out, wakes up in his room,
34:32
Speaker 1: and goes back in and stabs her some more and
34:33
Speaker 1: dismembers her. Is that his story? Yes, And it's important
34:37
Speaker 1: to note that he said he blacked out and went
34:39
Speaker 1: to sleep. This is the next day, this is now
34:42
Speaker 1: Saturday morning when he comes in and decides that he
34:45
Speaker 1: is going to stab her over one hundred time. And
34:48
Speaker 1: while he was blacked out, he just happened to have
34:52
Speaker 1: the stabbing instrument in his hand. He just keeps a
34:56
Speaker 1: knife on him or I'm a chatty by the bad
34:58
Speaker 1: but mean, that doesn't even make any say, it's kind
35:01
Speaker 1: of purposing. Tell me exactly what this guy justin Fields,
35:08
Speaker 1: thirty eight years old, says happened. He says he went
35:11
Speaker 1: to screen, he blacked out. He didn't tell investigators where
35:16
Speaker 1: he got his knife from, some type of eight inch
35:18
Speaker 1: quote survival knife. We don't know where he got that
35:22
Speaker 1: knife from, walked back in from his room into her
35:25
Speaker 1: room and stabbed this room multiple times. That's what he
35:28
Speaker 1: told investigators, Jessica Morgan. Isn't that what the cough syrup
35:31
Speaker 1: killer said? He said he was having a bad dream. Yeah, yeah,
35:36
Speaker 1: and that's what a lot of these guys say. You know,
35:40
Speaker 1: you mentioned this idea of blacking out, and let me
35:44
Speaker 1: kind of describe this to you. When Fields was allegedly
35:49
Speaker 1: using this knife to stab this poor woman one hundred times,
35:53
Speaker 1: imagine if you will just conjure up this image in
35:56
Speaker 1: your mind of an automatic sewing machine where the needle
36:00
Speaker 1: is going up and down, up and down, up and down.
36:02
Speaker 1: You're telling me that he's blacked out while this knife
36:06
Speaker 1: is raised over and over and over again. They're saying
36:09
Speaker 1: they've got account of one hundred. Now this doesn't include
36:12
Speaker 1: the dismemberment. And so you think about this knife going
36:15
Speaker 1: in and out and out, in and out like this,
36:17
Speaker 1: over and over again. This seems like you would have
36:20
Speaker 1: to have some kind of awareness of the fact that
36:22
Speaker 1: you're doing this. You'd have to position your body. This
36:25
Speaker 1: would be a very intimate event. He would probably be
36:28
Speaker 1: directly on top of her, because you know what they said.
36:31
Speaker 1: The sheriff actually stated that he felt like the first
36:33
Speaker 1: blow was this one in the middle line of the
36:37
Speaker 1: chest to the heart. Then after that, why does he
36:40
Speaker 1: keep on going? Why does he think that it's necessary
36:43
Speaker 1: to stab her? An additional if we're doing the arithmetic correctly,
36:47
Speaker 1: ninety nine toms. Those are all post mortem injuries at
36:50
Speaker 1: that and of course there's a dismemberment or the partial dismemberment.
36:54
Speaker 1: And once again the cough serp killer has a dream. O. J.
36:58
Speaker 1: Simpson's a dream that he murdered Nicole Brown. Now this
37:03
Speaker 1: guy says he had a dream. And know what stopped
37:07
Speaker 1: with the dreams? You did it? Take a listen to
37:12
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox six. Moon says, they believe she
37:15
Speaker 1: died after the Friday night attack, but that wasn't the
37:18
Speaker 1: last attack on Bailey. When he woke up on Saturday
37:21
Speaker 1: went back in there, they felt he was having a
37:23
Speaker 1: bad dream and for some reason standard multiple times again.
37:26
Speaker 1: Bailey's sister then comes over to check on her, but
37:29
Speaker 1: Fields won't let her inside, telling her he's done something horrible.
37:33
Speaker 1: That's when she calls police. The offender tells him on
37:36
Speaker 1: the body camp that I've done something really bad. Evidences
37:38
Speaker 1: in the house. If you go in there, you're gonna
37:41
Speaker 1: see it's really bad. They found Bailey's body in her room.
37:44
Speaker 1: Moon says she was dead on the scene and her
37:46
Speaker 1: body had also been dismembered. It was over one hundred
37:49
Speaker 1: stab wounds, but there's no way to really be able
37:52
Speaker 1: to tell her many and he says, I think I
37:55
Speaker 1: did something bad. Yeah, you did. You did something bad?
37:59
Speaker 1: All right? Kyra Purvis joining us from ABC. Where does
38:02
Speaker 1: the case stand right now? Kyra well Fields was in
38:06
Speaker 1: court on November second, but we're still awaiting when he's
38:09
Speaker 1: going to have that next court date. He is in
38:11
Speaker 1: the Blunt County Jail right now and being held without bonds,
38:14
Speaker 1: So we're really just waiting on the courts to see
38:17
Speaker 1: what they're going to determine. Even though he did admit,
38:19
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of things that we have to
38:21
Speaker 1: go through, obviously with the case and things like that,
38:23
Speaker 1: did this POC actually say not guilty? I'm not sure.
38:27
Speaker 1: I don't think they can. They do have this recorded confession.
38:31
Speaker 1: There's evidence it shouldn't, but we never know who. You know, Well,
38:35
Speaker 1: that's the first time I've laughed all day. And he's
38:38
Speaker 1: likely gonna plead and I don't believe this, but you
38:40
Speaker 1: can bet if the defense is offered, it's going to
38:42
Speaker 1: be a mental insanity defense. And that's what all these
38:45
Speaker 1: guys please when this occurs, and that's gonna be that's
38:48
Speaker 1: gonna be what he says. Okay, yeah, did you hear
38:50
Speaker 1: what Kyra Purvis just said. She said he shouldn't and
38:54
Speaker 1: she's right, yeah, he shouldn't. Plead not guilty, but I
38:57
Speaker 1: guarantee you she'll nuts her. He will interplate. I'm not guilty,
39:02
Speaker 1: hoping for a sweetheard deal to anything less than the
39:06
Speaker 1: death penalty, and you just might get it. And I
39:09
Speaker 1: oppose that right. And I want to chime in here
39:11
Speaker 1: on the whole concept of blackout. Blackout is about not
39:15
Speaker 1: being able to recall. Blackout has nothing to do with
39:19
Speaker 1: at the moment what I'm doing. I don't know what
39:21
Speaker 1: I'm doing. Second is, we've got the research to prove,
39:24
Speaker 1: and I trained police officers one offenders never had a
39:29
Speaker 1: damn blackout. We can get to what happened in the
39:32
Speaker 1: crime because there's a memory of it. When you look
39:35
Speaker 1: at these rageful incidents like this case, there's a memory
39:40
Speaker 1: of it, and for the offender it was a good
39:42
Speaker 1: memory because they're venting. And so to say I don't
39:47
Speaker 1: remember what I did. How the heck do you do
39:52
Speaker 1: any type of act and not know what you're doing
39:54
Speaker 1: When you do it with precision, You're hearing doctor Scott
39:57
Speaker 1: and Johnson speaking and doctor Johnson. I bet he'll have
40:01
Speaker 1: plenty of time to remember what happened behind bars. Goodbye friends,