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S5 E1 The Money Stories we never Questioned · The Swan Effect - Creating and Sustaining Your Financial Wellbeing

• 0:00
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Your legacy isn't just about numbers.
• 0:03
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's about the confidence that comes with knowing your wealth is expertly managed.
• 0:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: At Old Mutual Wealth, we offer solutions that go beyond investment management.
• 0:14
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We're your trusted partner in achieving financial success.
• 0:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Together with your financial planner, we uncover what matters most to you.
• 0:23
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Crafting a personalized plan tailored to your unique goals.
• 0:27
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Backed by a team dedicated to your wealth journey, we provide innovative strategies, in-depth research, and award-winning investment expertise.
• 0:37
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Partner with us to take your wealth further with advice-led personalized wealth management, offering clients and financial planners a full suite of industry-leading investment solutions.
• 0:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Visit www.oldmutual.co.za / wealth to learn more.
• 0:56
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Hi there, I'm Arthi Rabikrisson.
• 1:04
  Malika Petersen: Hello, I'm Malika Peterson.
• 1:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Welcome to
• 1:07
  Malika Petersen: the Swan Effect Podcast.
• 1:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We're your go-to podcast to simplify the complexities of money management, investing, and wealth management.
• 1:17
  Malika Petersen: So that you can gain confidence in your relationship with money and become financially literate, independent and free.
• 1:26
  Arthi Rabikrisson: That first step towards freedom is knowledge.
• 1:29
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And you can start regaining that right now by listening to this upcoming episode.
• 1:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Malika and I are so excited to have you join us again on our podcast show, where, as you know, we are on a mission to help you become more confident with your finances.
• 1:57
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Happy 2026, Malika, and happy new season for our show as well.
• 2:02
  Malika Petersen: Happy 2026, Arthii, and to our wonderful listeners from across the globe.
• 2:08
  Malika Petersen: It's so exciting to know that we reach all the corners of the world, which means that these episodes and topics that we've been sharing over many seasons together are relevant no matter where you are in the world.
• 2:22
  Malika Petersen: And yes, Arthi, I love that our new season and theme kicks off with whew Our bravest one yet, in my opinion.
• 2:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You've said it, Malika.
• 2:33
  Arthi Rabikrisson: This season, everyone, we're talking about the three topics people avoid at dinner tables, family gatherings, and sometimes even in our own heads.
• 2:43
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yet you know what?
• 2:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: These topics shape our lives in ways we cannot actually escape it.
• 2:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So our theme for the season is what we're calling DDT.
• 2:54
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Just like in wrestling, everybody, because as I said, we do wrestle with these, right?
• 2:59
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And it stands for debt, death, and taxes.
• 3:03
  Malika Petersen: Now, I know, listeners, you're feeling like you're in Harry Potter when you want to say in hush tones about this and you know, not say these words.
• 3:13
  Malika Petersen: Like everyone used to say, you shall not be named for Voldemort.
• 3:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But you know, when we don't name it, we actually give it power over us.
• 3:23
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So all the better to get used to saying it out aloud, everyone, and regularly.
• 3:28
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, you can say it even with me.
• 3:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Debt, debt, taxes, and then just exhale up to that.
• 3:35
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But I guess you know what, Malika, if we're being honest, these topics, they aren't just technical or financial, they're actually quite emotional.
• 3:42
  Arthi Rabikrisson: They're cultural.
• 3:43
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I would say it's deeply personal, which I guess is also why so many of us struggle to talk about these.
• 3:51
  Malika Petersen: No, no, I think read the nail on the head out there.
• 3:53
  Malika Petersen: And for this first episode, I'm excited that we're starting at the root.
• 3:58
  Malika Petersen: So before the spreadsheets, before the credit scores, before the numbers, before these state plans, right?
• 4:04
  Malika Petersen: We're starting with the stories, the ones that we didn't consciously choose.
• 4:10
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Hmm, and that's why today's episode is so important.
• 4:14
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Everyone, you know, consider it a little bit of that scene setting before we launch fully into the DDT unpacking.
• 4:21
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We want to help you surface those subconscious beliefs around debt and taxes and debt.
• 4:27
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Uh and, you know, for death, we can even call it legacy because it's a little bit of an extension of what we covered about legacy in the last few episodes of season four.
• 4:36
  Malika Petersen: Yeah, I mean, there's so much I want to say to what you've just shared, Arthi, right?
• 4:40
  Malika Petersen: Okay, so I think let's take one step at a time.
• 4:43
  Malika Petersen: Let's start with financial atmosphere.
• 4:46
  Malika Petersen: And and this is a word that we haven't really introduced on our podcast before, right?
• 4:51
  Malika Petersen: But I think it's a reality that before we've ever made a financial decision in our lives, anybody, we've absorbed a financial atmosphere or money mood.
• 5:03
  Malika Petersen: So I think let me ask the listeners a couple of simple questions.
• 5:07
  Malika Petersen: Okay.
• 5:07
  Malika Petersen: What was money like in your house growing up, right?
• 5:11
  Malika Petersen: And maybe the bigger question is what wasn't said, but it was deeply felt.
• 5:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh, I love these questions, Malika.
• 5:17
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I mean, it's actually making me think as well about my own sort of memories around this.
• 5:22
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, you know, I think I speak for even our listeners when I say, you know, I think we all at some point can remember whispered conversations like late at night with adults, particularly in the household.
• 5:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I think I remember as a child noticing tone shifts.
• 5:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, so you know, for me it was like these tone shifts, then tension, sometimes silence.
• 5:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And then now, if I think back, you know, there's probably a lot of anxiety, maybe some pride, even shame, sense of obligation.
• 5:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And I also remember being told things like, well, "don't ask questions in front of guests", you know, especially on these kind of topics.
• 6:00
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I guess what I'm saying is you didn't know what was wrong, but you knew that something was wrong.
• 6:05
  Malika Petersen: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:06
  Malika Petersen: And I mean, no one satt you down and explained that to you, right?
• 6:10
  Malika Petersen: And said, you know, you were just kind of expected to absorb it and to behave accordingly and to know how to behave, right?
• 6:17
  Malika Petersen: Which I mean, uh for me, money going up was always tied to respectability.
• 6:23
  Malika Petersen: And when I talk about that, I don't mean wealth.
• 6:25
  Malika Petersen: I don't mean abundance, I mean respectability.
• 6:28
  Malika Petersen: So so it showed up in things like, you know, you would have nice clothes, but only on special occasions, for example.
• 6:34
  Malika Petersen: Or on special occasions, right?
• 6:37
  Malika Petersen: We would host guests generously, even if it meant that things might tighten later.
• 6:44
  Malika Petersen: And you didn't know it was gonna tighten later, you just felt that it was sight later, right?
• 6:48
  Malika Petersen: But but money itself was never discussed in detail, if at all.
• 6:53
  Malika Petersen: Um, and debt certainly wasn't explained, it was just felt, right?
• 6:58
  Malika Petersen: So both weren't numbers or things on a page, it was energy with attention, as you said.
• 7:07
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh yeah, I mean, I'm remembering all these things even as you're just talking about this, and I think this will resonate with so many South African and also other households across the world.
• 7:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, it was almost like this family secret.
• 7:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I mean, Malika, do you remember hearing phrases like, as long as the bond is paid?
• 7:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Or as long as no one's losing their job, you know?
• 7:27
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Or even some of the, I mean, there's a whole lot of similar ones like that, you know, and I'm sure our listeners are nodding, just thinking about some of these too.
• 7:35
  Malika Petersen: No, absolutely, I think.
• 7:36
  Malika Petersen: I mean, because stability was the highest virtue to many South Africans, right?
• 7:42
  Malika Petersen: That meant a stable job or income.
• 7:45
  Malika Petersen: Risk wasn't really encouraged, and curiosity wasn't rewarded when it came to fight finances, right?
• 7:51
  Malika Petersen: Embarrassment was about money was an absolute no-no.
• 7:55
  Malika Petersen: So, you know, there was almost this unspoken understanding that your family's survival depended on predictability.
• 8:04
  Malika Petersen: And if things were predictable, that means you were safe and keeping things under control.
• 8:09
  Malika Petersen: You know, what at the time was perhaps needed in many areas, if we just think about South African history IT, with apartheid and gender inequality, you know, people were were craving and looking for safety in the things that they control.
• 8:25
  Malika Petersen: You know, but the other side was that while some innovation happened, like stock foul, it was more as a means to circumvent the system of financial exclusion rather than a way to grow forward from a wealth or legacy building perspective.
• 8:41
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You make such a such a great point around that.
• 8:42
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I'm so glad you mentioned that, Malika.
• 8:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It was definitely a means to an end in terms of managing finances at the time.
• 8:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And I mean, I mean, look about look at taxes.
• 8:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, taxes, taxes were just a thing, a thing that happened.
• 8:56
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's not something you planned around, not something you questioned, definitely not something you saw as participation in a system of nation building.
• 9:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah.
• 9:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And then this legacy, right?
• 9:08
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Which again sounds really lofty, but you know, growing up, legacy wasn't framed as something that was values-based or an emotional inheritance.
• 9:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: No, it was quite transactional.
• 9:20
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Um, there was almost this kind of sometimes implicit but oftentimes explicit, in the sense that we were told we've sacrificed, so you have to succeed, you know?
• 9:31
  Malika Petersen: Because I think everyone, we're not sharing these to blame anybody's families, right?
• 9:35
  Malika Petersen: I don't think that's the intention.
• 9:37
  Malika Petersen: But we also don't want to romanticize the struggles that we experienced.
• 9:42
  Malika Petersen: And a lot of those struggles were of the backdrop of macro influences, like about that, like all of those things, right?
• 9:50
  Malika Petersen: But I think what we do want it want is to understand the water that we were swimming in as a starting point.
• 9:57
  Malika Petersen: Because again, you can't change what you don't name.
• 10:01
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, it shows up in so many ways later on in life, you know.
• 10:05
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Think about when you're thinking about taking a little bit of a risk, everybody, in the form of maybe starting a business or wanting to study further, maybe finding different forms of income to earn differently.
• 10:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Um, if that brings about a sense of panic, you now have a better understanding of where that nervous system panic is coming from.
• 10:27
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because it feels like you're risking the family's safety, not just your own comfort.
• 10:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, you know, especially when you feel that you're using your scarce resources to undertake some of these initiatives, it all just comes to a bit of a head for you emotionally.
• 10:43
  Malika Petersen: I'm so glad that you brought up, you know, because we can segway into the idea of scarcity.
• 10:48
  Malika Petersen: And notice I use the word idea.
• 10:51
  Malika Petersen: Um, because let's be frank, scarcity comes in two forms.
• 10:54
  Malika Petersen: It's it's physically not having enough of something, like money as an example.
• 10:59
  Malika Petersen: But then it's also this feeling of scarcity, which is very much a mindset.
• 11:03
  Malika Petersen: And I mean, we've spoken about this over the last few seasons.
• 11:07
  Malika Petersen: If there was one thing I think that you and I, if we had a magic wand and we could change, it would be the mindset.
• 11:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Mindset, for sure.
• 11:14
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Right.
• 11:15
  Malika Petersen: And when we talk about mindset, I mean the feeling that there will never be enough, no matter what we do, even when there is enough, right?
• 11:23
  Malika Petersen: Such as time in the day or, you know, to complete and do our tasks and activities.
• 11:28
  Malika Petersen: I mean, I know people who grew up with very little money or or less than most of us, and they don't have scarcity thinking, right?
• 11:38
  Malika Petersen: And I know people who grew up relatively materially comfortable, but they're emotionally terrified of loss.
• 11:45
  Malika Petersen: And I think scarcity kind of shows up in rules such as don't waste, don't splurge, don't get comfortable.
• 11:52
  Malika Petersen: The other day I was out to dinner with my mom, and she was like, No, no, you have to take a doggy bag.
• 11:57
  Malika Petersen: Like, it's like, don't feel like walking around with this doggy bag, but but there's a don't waste, right?
• 12:03
  Malika Petersen: Yes, yes.
• 12:04
  Malika Petersen: And you would even notice that in a restaurant you might opt for a better price prayer girl, you know, than the lobster or the steak that you desperately desire.
• 12:14
  Malika Petersen: That gets to be in action, right?
• 12:18
  Malika Petersen: I mean, think of the times when you tip a waiter.
• 12:21
  Malika Petersen: Do you stick vigilantly to the 10%, even when the service was completely phenomenal?
• 12:27
  Malika Petersen: Um, or do you increase it, you know, and that's the reason for this mindset in these cases, it's because generosity feels unsafe.
• 12:37
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I hear you.
• 12:37
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I hear you, Malika.
• 12:39
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh my gosh.
• 12:39
  Arthi Rabikrisson: As I said, you know, it's just flagging so much for me as you're talking because I'm thinking about how did scarcity show up for me.
• 12:45
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And I guess if I could phrase it, I would say it probably showed up as over preparation in a lot of instances.
• 12:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So that means always needing a backup plan and then another backup plan, and then a backup plan for the backup plan.
• 12:59
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know what I mean?
• 13:00
  Arthi Rabikrisson: That's just like you're overworking, you know, overtime around this.
• 13:03
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And again, you know, that means we're not resting enough.
• 13:07
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, sometimes it even means that we're choosing to earn less because safety becomes far more important than actually expanding and trying something a little bit riskier, as you said.
• 13:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So, everyone, you know, if you think about that, then what is the opposite of that, right?
• 13:23
  Arthi Rabikrisson: What is the opposite of scarity?
• 13:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And what comes to mind is what we are calling security thinking instead, or what you may have heard of before as an abundance mindset.
• 13:33
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And that's where you say, I can handle what comes through.
• 13:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, I'm allowed to plan, but I don't need to brace constantly, you know, for the negative or the curveball that's going to be coming.
• 13:46
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Or it could even be something like, you know, saying to yourself, you know what, there is enough room for this right now.
• 13:53
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So even that just allows you to ensure that you can move forward, you can gain a bit of ground, you can undertake some of those initiatives that we mentioned earlier.
• 14:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But of course, you know, if you grew up watching adults in the household worrying about bills and political unrest, medical emergencies, even, or where you needed to send money back home, you know, a lot of your earnings going back to wider family.
• 14:17
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And we know this is so typical of many South Africans and Africans on our continent as well.
• 14:23
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, of course, your nervous system, it's learned that having money equals safety.
• 14:30
  Malika Petersen: And as a result, debt becomes terrifying, right?
• 14:33
  Malika Petersen: Even when it could be strategic.
• 14:36
  Malika Petersen: And I think this is important to understand.
• 14:39
  Malika Petersen: There is strategically positive debts, loans, a student loan, a business loan, a mortgage.
• 14:47
  Malika Petersen: You know, there are numbers that might actually make sex, but your body reacts like this is a danger.
• 14:53
  Malika Petersen: The minute you hear debt and interest rate, you hear danger.
• 14:57
  Malika Petersen: Uh similarly with taxes, taxes become something that people fear instead of something that you plan for.
• 15:04
  Malika Petersen: It's something that you avoid opening mail about, right?
• 15:07
  Malika Petersen: I mean, tax season, when tax season is announcing South Africa, very many people avoid it until that very last filing date.
• 15:15
  Malika Petersen: You know, where the rest of us understand this is an opportunity and we're excited to file.
• 15:19
  Malika Petersen: I mean, death, you know, death kind of becomes this unspoken cliff that no one wants to look over.
• 15:25
  Malika Petersen: Not because people don't care, but because looking over and facing what's on the other side feels extremely overwhelming.
• 15:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, absolutely, Malika.
• 15:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, I mean, let's get concrete a little bit for our listeners, okay, in terms of how do these inherited stories show up in adulthood?
• 15:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And you might recognize some of this in yourself or with others that you know, or it might at least stimulate you to think about your situation, right?
• 15:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So one of the ways is you tend to overwork.
• 15:55
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Overwork, but under-earning, right?
• 15:57
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It could show up in avoidance of financial conversations with partners, which actually, by the way, should happen as soon as you realize the relationship is serious.
• 16:07
  Malika Petersen: Absolutely.
• 16:08
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I can't tell you how many coaching sessions I've had, Malika, when we dig around a little bit, the financial implications of the relationship or the partnership is a conversation that's actually causing a lot of the discomfort.
• 16:22
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So that that that conversation hasn't happened.
• 16:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And oftentimes I would guide and encourage, you know, my client to actually think about how do you actually start having a conversation with somebody.
• 16:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because and they'll say straight, say straight up to me, it's scary.
• 16:35
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's scary to bring this somebody that that, you know, what if they walk away?
• 16:39
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, because things are getting serious.
• 16:41
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So it's a reality, everyone.
• 16:43
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It can show up in terms of guilt.
• 16:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I mean, I think this is a big one.
• 16:46
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Guilt, especially when we are earning more than our parents ever did.
• 16:50
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay.
• 16:51
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And with that guilt comes this unspoken responsibility that we need to financially support our family members, even if it puts us under strain.
• 17:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, we say yes to helping family, even when it could hurt us financially, because actually, if you say no, then that feels like a betrayal.
• 17:11
  Malika Petersen: Yeah.
• 17:11
  Malika Petersen: Or on the other hand, we feel shame potentially when we don't make as much as our parents did.
• 17:19
  Malika Petersen: Right?
• 17:20
  Malika Petersen: I mean, we're living under very different economic realities, but there's always the shame that, you know, they they went through a period of political unrest, yeah, extremities, and they were able to make a living or good living.
• 17:35
  Malika Petersen: And if we're not doing as well as they do, we feel shame about that.
• 17:38
  Malika Petersen: Alternatively, we we refuse help from others, right?
• 17:41
  Malika Petersen: Because independence is prized above all else.
• 17:45
  Malika Petersen: Um, there's a lot of pride around money, right?
• 17:48
  Malika Petersen: So instead, we take on unnecessary debt and the bad kind of debt.
• 17:52
  Malika Petersen: We spoke about the good kind earlier on, but yeah, we take on this unnecessary bad debt, and then we finally, you know, we we just can't afford to support it.
• 18:01
  Malika Petersen: We we avoid it um because asking still feels unsafe.
• 18:08
  Arthi Rabikrisson: There are people who delay, avoid, uh, panic around debt, as you said earlier, Malika.
• 18:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, you know, it's not because they owe something, but it's because more of that debt trigger.
• 18:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It triggers that old fears.
• 18:22
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So everybody, it's actually not going to kind of, you know, the current state where maybe you're looking for balance to help you.
• 18:29
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's actually going into your history.
• 18:31
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's all about memory and what you what you remember.
• 18:35
  Malika Petersen: It's it's the same with the estate planning.
• 18:37
  Malika Petersen: I mean, we talk to so many clients who say, I don't have enough to think about that.
• 18:43
  Malika Petersen: I don't need to worry about that because, you know, there isn't enough for me to leave.
• 18:48
  Malika Petersen: And number one, firstly, I just want to encourage our listeners.
• 18:51
  Malika Petersen: Firstly, that number, you'll be surprised at how much you actually have.
• 18:54
  Malika Petersen: A lot of people don't realize that.
• 18:57
  Malika Petersen: But also, what people really meant is that thinking about this forces me to confront my own mortality and responsibility in terms of what happens when I'm no longer here, right?
• 19:10
  Malika Petersen: And we tend to kind of ignore legacy altogether.
• 19:14
  Malika Petersen: I just want to caution our learners though, because legacy isn't just about what you leave behind when you die, it's also about what you model when you're alive.
• 19:26
  Malika Petersen: Yeah.
• 19:26
  Malika Petersen: And part of that is including, you know, your relationship with money.
• 19:33
  Malika Petersen: It's a very important part of it.
• 19:35
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh, I love that.
• 19:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I it feels like a bit of a penny drop moment, you know, to come to that kind of understanding that this is role modeling at play.
• 19:43
  Malika Petersen: Yes.
• 19:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, you know, I hope, listeners, that you're getting a sense that, you know, almost bringing the mirror to the kind of financial narratives and thinking that have been in place is actually going to be so helpful in getting you towards that legacy building, that role modeling.
• 19:59
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Model building and actually bettering the relationship that you have with money.
• 20:04
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So I think it would be lovely to just take a moment for you to slow down.
• 20:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Still beginning of the year.
• 20:10
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's nice to have these kind of reflections early on.
• 20:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So I invite you to reflect on a couple of questions, or maybe just even one.
• 20:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: A particular sentence I'm going to share with you.
• 20:21
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And just notice how you finish the sentence.
• 20:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Again, we're not asking you to fix it just yet, but rather notice it.
• 20:29
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Notice what's coming up for you.
• 20:31
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So finish this sentence, everyone.
• 20:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But people like us don't.
• 20:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay.
• 20:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And you're going to complete the rest of that sentence.
• 20:39
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And you know, maybe just to give you a couple of examples to get you going, it could sound like people like us don't take risks.
• 20:46
  Arthi Rabikrisson: People like us don't talk about money.
• 20:50
  Arthi Rabikrisson: People like us don't get rich.
• 20:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oof.
• 20:53
  Arthi Rabikrisson: People like us don't ask for help.
• 20:57
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And maybe people like us don't leave inheritances.
• 21:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So yeah, just a few examples there.
• 21:04
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Notice what comes up for you, everyone.
• 21:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And also just notice where you feel this in your body.
• 21:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay?
• 21:10
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's telling you something.
• 21:11
  Malika Petersen: Yeah.
• 21:11
  Malika Petersen: I think, listeners, it's important to understand that these sentences didn't come from nowhere, right?
• 21:17
  Malika Petersen: They were taught to you, they were modeled.
• 21:19
  Malika Petersen: You absorbed them, right?
• 21:21
  Malika Petersen: And it's important for you to, for want of a better word, break the cycle.
• 21:26
  Malika Petersen: So in order to do that, let's gently reframe those beliefs, right?
• 21:33
  Malika Petersen: So what if those beliefs made sense once but doesn't serve you now?
• 21:39
  Malika Petersen: Again, this is very important in the context of South Africa and many countries around the world.
• 21:44
  Malika Petersen: You know, we we live in a very different time to what our parents did.
• 21:48
  Malika Petersen: So the beliefs that they had may not serve us now.
• 21:51
  Malika Petersen: It might just serve them, may not serve us now, right?
• 21:55
  Malika Petersen: What if honoring your family's sacrifices doesn't require you repeating their fears?
• 22:01
  Malika Petersen: Because again, some of those fears no longer exist.
• 22:04
  Malika Petersen: They're not real anymore, and we have to let go of them, right?
• 22:08
  Malika Petersen: What if you allow to build a new money story?
• 22:13
  Malika Petersen: One that includes calm and clarity and clear intention.
• 22:18
  Malika Petersen: So reframing those beliefs or the things that you were taught or modeled or absorbed, it's not about rejecting your past.
• 22:27
  Malika Petersen: Embrace your past, understand it, but you do need to level up.
• 22:31
  Malika Petersen: And that means that you need to update the rules.
• 22:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I love these powerful questions, Malika.
• 22:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh my gosh.
• 22:37
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I feel like you clearly you and I are spending a lot of time together.
• 22:40
  Arthi Rabikrisson: These are such great coaching questions.
• 22:42
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I love them.
• 22:43
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Really, really love them.
• 22:45
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, you know, especially this piece about reframing, right?
• 22:48
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Everybody, you know, once we identify what that narrative is, these reframes that Malika is offering you is basically going to help you shift that mindset.
• 22:59
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And that's what the season is all about, right?
• 23:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We want to help you reframe your mindset.
• 23:04
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And we're gonna do that talking about debt, debt, and taxes in a very real, practical way, as you know us to do, right?
• 23:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We'll break it down, we'll bust some myths, and we'll help you navigate these concepts from a place of not scarcity, but actually opportunity and clarity.
• 23:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay.
• 23:25
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And, you know, we before we could do that though, I think we really felt we had to start here, huh, Malika?
• 23:29
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Absolutely.
• 23:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, we had to start with the stories that we've inherited.
• 23:33
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because every financial decision that you've made so far, that's been shaped by a belief, whether we've named it or not.
• 23:42
  Malika Petersen: Well said, Arthi.
• 23:43
  Malika Petersen: And I think we're at the end of a pretty deep episode.
• 23:47
  Malika Petersen: We've confronted so many realities that we kind of face daily and multiple times any day, right?
• 23:54
  Malika Petersen: So what are your parting shots today?
• 23:57
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh, I think it's just what I said a little earlier, which is name the story, everyone.
• 24:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Honor where it came from, but then also decide, you know, do it slowly, do it compassionately, but then decide what do you want to carry forward from that?
• 24:12
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay.
• 24:12
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And this is the part of the process where you rewrite your story for your present, for your now, and for your future.
• 24:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Here's the thing, you have the choice, okay?
• 24:22
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So you can choose abundance over scarcity, okay?
• 24:26
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And that's what we're gonna help you do.
• 24:27
  Arthi Rabikrisson: How about you, Malika?
• 24:28
  Arthi Rabikrisson: What's your parting shot?
• 24:30
  Malika Petersen: So I think my parting shot as we enter this new season, season five of the Swan Effect podcast, is that I want to open up ask our listeners to open their minds to what debt taxes and death planning can really mean.
• 24:45
  Malika Petersen: Right.
• 24:45
  Malika Petersen: Address the shame, deal with the secrecy, you know, separate your self-worth from what you owe.
• 24:51
  Malika Petersen: Because when you really consider what debt taxes and death planning can mean, there are so many opportunities and so much potential waiting on the other side.
• 25:03
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I love that.
• 25:04
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I mean, it's just like what you said earlier, Malika.
• 25:07
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It's you are allowed, everyone, to update the rules.
• 25:11
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And of course, you know, you're allowed as well to approach these topics with clarity instead of fear.
• 25:17
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So, everyone, please just give yourself permission to do that.
• 25:20
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Be as brave as Harry Potter.
• 25:22
  Malika Petersen: And as bold as Neville.
• 25:25
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Definitely.
• 25:26
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Until the next episode, everyone.
• 25:28
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ciao for now.
• 25:30
  Malika Petersen: Ciao.
• 25:32
  Malika Petersen: Thanks for joining us.
• 25:34
  Malika Petersen: We hope you found these ideas and guidance useful.
• 25:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We're both seasoned in the investments industry.
• 25:41
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Malika is at the coal facee of how, where, and why people invest the way they do.
• 25:48
  Malika Petersen: I certainly am.
• 25:49
  Malika Petersen: And you, Arthi, you've witnessed different types of investment behaviors around money too.
• 25:56
  Malika Petersen: And now work as a global award-winning coach to free us from the mindsets that stop us from becoming financially free.
• 26:04
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Do subscribe, share, and write a review or send us comments.
• 26:08
  Arthi Rabikrisson: We would love to hear from you.
• 26:10
  Malika Petersen: Catch you on the next episode
• 26:12
  Arthi Rabikrisson: of the Swan Effect Podcast.
• 26:14
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Bye for now.
• 26:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ciao!