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Principles of Overlanding: The Basic Overland Gear Everyone Should Have · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I'm here with my co host
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Matt Scott and what is on the agenda for today, Matt.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: So, we're continuing our Principles of Overlanding series this week
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: with the basic Overlin gear that everybody should have. And
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: we think this is an interesting one because it really
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: applies to somebody that's going on their first trip as
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: much as somebody that's turned around the world that's traveled extensively.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good reminder of not only how little
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we need, but to reinforce what is most important to
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: bring along. Now again, we're never going to say that
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: this is the ultimate list, this is the only list.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I'm never going to say that I got it all
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: figured out, because I don't. This is based upon Matt
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: and my experience, and it also brings in this idea
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: that we may want to fly and drive, which means
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: that we don't want this crazy huge list, but there's
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: some things that we need in order to feel confident
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: about traveling. So that's what this is really about, which
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: means you could leave tomorrow, you could walk out your
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: door right now with the money you've got in your pocket,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and you could figure out a way to travel around
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the world. People do it all the time. They travel
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: with little or nothing. But what this is, what this
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: list is about, is mitigating risk, managing risk, giving us
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a better opportunity of having a good experience, being able
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to manage challenges that come up as we go along.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: And that's why it's very fundamental. This is really a
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: fundamental list. So we're going to kind of start off
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, and I think keeping it simple was
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a really important thing. You know, when you're carrying your
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: house on your back, you don't you don't need to
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: have absolutely everything that you do it at home.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I guess we both tend to travel a little bit
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: lighter than most, but I think that's great.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I like to travel light.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: In fact, even when I fly, if I have to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: check a bag, it's pretty much because I'm sending motorcycle gear. Yeah.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I generally do think that overlanders are pretty
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: well prepared. You know, again where we were talking, this
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: is going to apply to the beginner as much as
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: the experienced guy. Well, maybe the experienced guy has started
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: bringing too much stuff, you know, I always like to
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: recommend go through your truck, put little stickers on on
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: the stuff that you on everything, and after a few trips,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: after a few you know, car camping trips or you know,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: we weekend adventures, if there's still a red dot on that,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and there's still a little dot on it, maybe it's
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: something that you don't.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Need to consider.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So you don't need to bring simplify because the lighter
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: your vehicle is, the better gas mileage it's going to get,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the better it's going to handle.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Better it's going to handle.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I really think that a lot of the problems that
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: that overland travelers have with their vehicles has come from
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: having too much crap, too much weight.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: You're never going to be prepared for absolutely everything.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's a mistake to try to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: do that, because then what happens is you've either spent
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: so much money or so much time or you've allocated
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: so much weight in the vehicle towards being prepared for
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: everything that you actually do end up breaking down, and
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: you do end up breaking springs where you spend more
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: money than you should, and then you don't actually get
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: to go on the trip, And that really comes back
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: to as we work through this list, very few of
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: these things have anything to do with modifying the vehicle.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: In fact, almost none of them do. So this is
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: really a fundamental list. So this is the stuff that
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: you want to have when you decide to go remote
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: or to travel internationally, when you're in unfamiliar terrain and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: unfamiliar locations. So what's the least amount of stuff we
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: can bring? I mean, isn't that a fun thought? I
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: think it's all about refining. Yeah, right, and I don't know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I've done both.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm lucky enough to have more than one vehicle,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and I have a Like my Gladiator is has everything.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It has the camper, it has the heater, it has
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: the lithium battery system. It has everything that you really
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: kind of want. But then it also the things that
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have, right, Like, it does not have crazy
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: skid plates because I'm not rock crawling. It doesn't have
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: crazy rock sliders as the factory ones because I'm not
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: rock crawling. Like again, you're gonna hear me say, guys,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: you're probably not going to be rock crawling much when
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: you're traveling.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but unless it comes up, Unless it comes up,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and then it does happen in which this list is gonna,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: you know, help prepare you for some of that stuff.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So communication, I guess, is kind of the first thing.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: And I think communication has trained has changed drastic so much.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have maybe more strong opinions on the subject.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I'm like the anti Ham radio guy because you travel solo.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I travel solo, and every every time I'm on a
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Ham radio, it's hey, guys, did you check out my
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: old man Emon number four five six suspension kit? Use
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: the radio for emergencies? I like, you know, an in
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: reach or a spot beacon or something like that. A
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: lot of places these days also have sell service, Like
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: it's not that hard to get to someplace that has
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: cell service.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Now, did you have a radio on your vehicle?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: In Australia, we had a g I want to say
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: it was and that was nice to be able to
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: talk to truckies that were coming on single lane roads
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and things. But I think that's the upside there is
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: for safety on those back roads in Australia.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the nice thing with that system
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: is well, and I think it maybe to.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Be slightly contrariant on that. I think that it really
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: depends on the travelers. So if you're in a group,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: especially in a dusty area where you're getting a lot
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: of distance between the vehicles, you start to easily outstrip
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the range of a GMRS or something like that. I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: remember one of the times I was most grateful for
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: having a radio was actually in Greenland and we were
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: in a wide out and we were trying desperately to
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: stay keep each other in view. We couldn't see the
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: other vehicles and we started to get separated, and we
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: were coming into this crevass zone, so the risks were
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: getting much higher, and so we all stopped and we
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: all started to communicate on the radios what's our GPS locate,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and we triangulated ourselves and got ourselves closer and closer
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and closer until we were.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: Able to see the vehicles again.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: And then I think about the times that I've traveled
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: with other Overlanders at our HAM operators. They tend to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: have a little bit better radio etiquette when they're a
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: HAM operator because they know what you're allowed to say
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: and what you're not allowed to say, and then you
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: can get a lot more powerful performance out.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess I'm just anti social and I
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: don't want to talk to you. Yeah, and it's also
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: worth looking into where you're traveling, what radio frequencies are
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: publicly accessible. Yes, you know, you may find that your
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: chosen method of communication is fine in the United States,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: but the moment you cross the border in New Mexico
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: or Canada, or you know, you fly into Russia. Yeah,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: there's there's things that you don't want. Like I've even
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: had friends a satellite phones and some places in India
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: and they were on Teria satellite phones, super bad news,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, the blackhawks come because the
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: only people that used to write satellite phones are not
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: on our side. So you do have to consider that.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I think when you travel, no, you actually make a
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: really great point.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I remember we were in Oshawaya and we were heading
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: back north and we were chatting on the on the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: two meters and this guy, this guy comes over the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: channel and says, identify yourself, and me immediately this is
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: the this is the Argentine military. You're you're communicating on
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: a controlled station, and you know, and in perfect English
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: as well. So this person was clearly monitoring radio communications.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't even have to say, don't say anything.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: We all went completely silent and shut the radios off.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: So you're right, And I remember I remember smuggling a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: SAT phone into I'm not recommending anybody do that, but.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: So it's really easy for them to tell when something's
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: going on.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you really, there's there are countries where that's a
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: big no no. You've got to know the location that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: you're going to if it's okay. Now, what ten to
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: be okay in almost every country is something like a
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: SPOT device or in reach issues. Yeah, because it's classified
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: as a personal locating beacon, so it's for S O
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: S only, and that's why those tend to be exempt,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: even though now both Garman and and the UH the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: SPOT devices allow for two way communication, but do some
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: research to make sure that you're not getting yourself in
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a necessary trouble. I do think that there is there
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: is something. I'm speaking for myself personally, there is something
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: about going through the process of learning what you need
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to learn to get a HAM radio license, understanding the frequencies.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed that.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I I remember looking back on that, and it's probably
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: because the guys at Expedition Exchange they like set this
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: lofty goal, this lofty expectation that I that I felt
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: like I continued to fall very very shy of.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: But it was it was cool to get that to
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: accomplish that. Yeah.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm not saying that they're
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: that they're bad. I'm just saying that.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: You're saying they're bad. Yeah, That's why I like the.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Beacons because when I you know, you're going back to
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that putting together that kit that you can fly somewhere.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I have a spot or an inn reach
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: chef for got which one I have, and it's it's
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: just there. I change the batteries every year.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I started using a bivvy stick and I'm
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: not I'm not recommending it. I'm just saying that I'm
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: using it because I'm testing it, but it's too early
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: to really recommend it. And then they updated it and
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I just got the new unit and it's so small.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: It's literally like the size of a of a large
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: cigarette lighter, and it pairs with your phone communicates over
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the Iridium satellite network, which means that it works everywhere
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: in the world. So there are some very cool tools
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: out there now. I would just recommend that whatever you buy,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: make sure, especially if it pairs with your phone, make
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: sure that there is a way for you to transmit
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: an SOS without the phone. And that's because maybe you
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: just got in an accident. Now the screen of your
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: phone is cracked, you can't see the pains redundant, you
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: have some redundancy along with that, and that's I think
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: really what we're suggesting around communications is have multiple ways
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: of communicating. And then if you're very remote, which we
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: love to get remote, right, we want to go camp
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: at that beautiful lake where no one else is and
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: we've driven a day to get back in there in
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: low range. If someone has a medical event, or if
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: your family has an emergency and they need to get
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: a hold of you or you need to get a
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: hold of them, I really recommend that everyone considered a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: device like that. And then again it comes back to
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: that confidence. Once we have the device, we feel more
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: confident going remote. So it's not like we've gained any skill,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: We've gained confidence and oftentimes that's all you need.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and obviously you know, I guess listen to
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: my advice, but don't there's there's a large variety of
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: different trips, the way I travel. I have developed a
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: system for the way I travel. Yeah, and it works
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: for me. You know, if you're more comfortable with you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: a ham radio or more comfortable with whatever that that
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: form of communication is. As long as it works, you know,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to be fine. So but I think I
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: think we started off with communication because everything else that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: comes past this. If you get communication is very important,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: you have to have it. But everything else past this
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: list is going to mean that you hopefully never have
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to use those personal locator beacons and all of that
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. You know, if you have the proper
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: recovery gear, the proper tools, the proper spares, you know,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: you won't have to potentially ask for help.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: But it is always a good idea to have that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, communication is first on the list, not because it's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: it has to be the very first thing. It's it's
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: because I generally see that is as a way to
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: overcome future sins. So like it's the one like if
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you forget your fire extinguisher and your truck burns to
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the ground, you get you still have a way to
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: communicate for help. So I think starting with communication in
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: my mind. Again, I'm not saying that that my approach
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: is perfect. So the next thing that we're going to
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: talk about navigation is navigation, Yeah, which I find that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Again this comes back to that idea of confidence. So
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: if you can give people tools, or you can or
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: they can acquire tools that gives them confidence to explore,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: then they're more likely to go remote and they're more
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: likely to have an adventurous experience. So what have you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: used for navigation? Like, what did you use when you
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: were traveling around Australia?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Matt, I used Hma because Hma actually creates maps, which
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: is what I really liked about them, and it worked
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: pretty well. We actually we used it was just called
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Hema Maps yep, and that was essentially just a digital version.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Of a of a PDF. Well you get what I'm
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: trying to say, yeah, digitally rastered.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I really liked that because I was
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: able to actually navigate because there were things that we
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: were doing there that were very remote.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: They were cross country.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: There weren't even you know, dedicated roots and you know
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Maddigan line and things like that. So again juxtapost is
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: from my opinion of communication. But I always have paper maps.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I love paper maps too, because frankly, I love to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: disconnect when I travel, you know, I find that my
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: day to day life is in front of a computer
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: when I'm working and I throw I like to be
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: able to throw away my cell phone unless I absolutely
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: need it, and I love to kind of know where
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going with those paper maps when I'm in Baja,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and lucky enough, I have a Baja Almanac. And I
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: think there's a bit of a joy to pulling out
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the company and actually figuring out where you are and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: actually disconnecting. I find that a joy. Otherwise, I just
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: use Google Maps for most things, you know. I use
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: tracks for Africa when we were just in Africa, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: that was cool, very helpful, But.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: I ended up finding that.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Like all of these apps that I've used, they everyone
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that I've personally tested is just sucked. Like they don't
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: they don't actually add any value all. Most most of
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: what these apps are doing is they're taking old USGS
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: topo data, they're taking open street maps, they're taking a
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: available data of which Google is generally better at all
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of them, and then they're putting it into an interface
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: that isn't as good as Google Maps. And I just
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: have not bothered. Now if somebody is actually going to
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: go out and create maps, yeah, I would love to
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: check out that app. But I to see as Google
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: you can download everything offline, and I think especially for
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the people that are more interested in international travel, I've
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: found Google to be the best for international travel.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And I mean I remember South America, any of the
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: places that I've got other than Africa, I do use
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: tracks for Africa in Africa, and then I do use
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: the Hema maps in Australia. But even then it's nice
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to have Google Maps on top of that because you
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: get more up to date current information and yeah, you
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: can save it offline.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: It all.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like it seems like the apps
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: they usually have two advantages for me. Usually they have
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: one killer feature, like Gaya has the ability to display
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: satellite images and has the ability to display the seven
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and a half minute tapos. And the reason why I
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: like those original paper topos is it shows like Indian
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: ruins or it like it actually has all these cartographers
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: notes that you don't get with Garman. But that comes
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: back to your paper map comment as well. So if
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you have topo maps for your area, that you're exploring,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you're going to get that same benefit. But then there's
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: there's some that have like, for example, a public land allocation,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: like if if it's you know, an area that's a
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: state trust and you've got to have a permit. Those
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: kinds of things I think are beneficial.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Nice to know.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those kinds of things are beneficial. I think on
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: X has something like that. Yeah, I'd like to.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I'd like to test their their thing, because I mean
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: they from what I've been told by others, that seems
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to be the leading, the leading app right now.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're innovating relatively quickly.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: But Gaya has proven to be very state so it's
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I've gotten the best results for GPS tracks out of Gaya.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: But I really like just especially on the motorcycle. I
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: like a simple, robust Garmin GPS. They survive, they survive
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the weather and the sun, and they're daylight readable, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: they work with your gloves and they always reliably.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: Recorded genast tracks.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I don't record tracks much because because I'm selfish and
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I just like to enjoy the experience while enjoying it.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm usually working even though I'm not working.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think navig when it comes back to navigation,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: start with paper maps for the area you want to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: go to. You'll you'll get a lot of joy out
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: of them, sitting on your couch at home, even spreading
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: them out on the coffee table and thinking about where
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you get you want to go. That's the one real
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: advantage of a paper map is it's a much larger scale,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: so you get to see so much more of the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: area that you get to explore. When you're on a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: small screen, you're scrolling around and you lose a sense
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: of scale and a sense.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Of of where you're at. Yeah, like the National Geographic
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Trails Tapa ones. Yeah, those maps are really good. There's
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: some good ones for Baja. With that.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: If you can't find a Baja almanac, and anyone who's listening,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: if you have a Baha almanac, your retirement is now.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So have some redundancy. Start off with paper maps. Learn
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: how to triangulate, learn how to identify natural features. That
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: also enhances your experience. You get to show that to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: your kids, you get to go through that with your
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: partner that you're traveling with. Some ads a lot.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Some of my most prized possessions are the maps that
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I have marked up from in the moment. I have
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: one from Africa, I have them all from Australia, I
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: have them from Asia, I have everywhere, Like here's where
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: we were. There's something cool about that, you know, that
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: experience of just my entire life has been digital. Like
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I was born in the nineties, so like, yeah, when
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I was young, I used to have the Atlas and
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I'd follow along.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's just nice to have it. I'm
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: not young now, you just turned thirty. Young old soul, yeah,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: prematurely old. Yeah, So have some redundancy, get those paper maps,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and then decide what you want to use from there.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a Garman. They've got the new Overlander, which
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: is really robust for what we do. And then there's
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: other there's other GPS units out there too. We're not
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: necessarily recommending one, but but.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: No, like if you're on a budget and you just
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: want to get out and travel, what you have in
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: your pocket right now most likely is probably fine.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: The phone will work just fine, but try to have
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: those paper maps. Try to have that redundancy. I think
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that that's really important.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And I think that that touches on a on an
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: important thing here that you know, with all of these
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: things that the travel is the most important thing. But
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: this series is about overland travel.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Overland.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: If the premium garment, you know overlander which is which
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: is really nice, it's probably going to make a lot
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: of things in your trip easier, isn't in the cards?
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, your phone will work. Just your phone l work
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: just fine. Absolutely so.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Medical and emergency supplies. This is something that I
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: think is really important. There's no excuse to not have
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: some kind of basic first aid training. I think everybody
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: should have, should have this, knowing how to do basic CPR,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: knowing how to clean a wound, knowing how to just
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: do very basic things. I mean, what's the basic course
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: that you can take is this first aid Community first Aid?
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can do first aid in CPR, which CPR
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: has changed significantly over the last decade or so, so
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: it's good to get recertified on that. And then the
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: one I would really recommend people do is the Wilderness
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: first date. It's called a woof of course, there's one
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that's slightly above that called WOOFER WFR, a Wilderness first Responder.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: And then from there you can go to w EMT
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: or Wilderness EMT. When I was a full time firefighter,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I was an EMT and I learned a lot. But
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: there's so much more that comes with backcountry care and
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: wilderness medicine, which is primarily around improvising using available tools.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: So many times we're under supplied to handle a lot
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: of medical emergencies. So maybe we use a stick to
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: stabilize a joint, for example. But for the most part,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: we do want to have medical supplies with us. We
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: want to be prepared to care for ourselves and for
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the people that are with us. And then we also
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: need to think about the medications that we need. Do
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: we need antimalarials? Do we need something to manage a
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: GI issue?
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: You had a bad.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Tacos, which I've never had bad tacos where I've gotten
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: me sick, but I've definitely gotten sick. I've definitely gotten
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: sick in my travels having those kind of medications along
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: managing a headache, etc. Again, we're not Matt and I
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: are not doctors, and we don't play them on the internet,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: but there are some basic things that you're going to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: want to have in those kits, and you should do
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: some research on what that would be. One of the
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: kits I really like because it's super fundamental.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Is this.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: It's called IF Survival is the name of the company.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: First Aid Response Kit is what they have no affiliation,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: not an advertiser, but it's just a really really good kit,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: a really effective one.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: So you know, I think that starting off with a
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: good kit like that is key. It's got to turn
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: a kit.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: It's got scissors, it's got a way to break a window,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and it should all be super.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And all of that stuff is important, but it is
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: again only useful if you know how to use it,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: that's right, So that training is really important. You know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: if you don't have training and you don't have time
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: to get training, some people don't. It's good a basic kit, yeah,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: you know. But also I think it's one area that
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: it never hurts to go a little bit overkill on
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: because if you if you do have that way to communicate,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: whether that's a HAM radio or it's two way satellite
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: messaging or a phone or a satellite phone, having that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: stuff there allows a medical professional to walk you through
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: in an explicitly in an emergency and how to use it.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: In fact, when we were doing both Greenland and Antarctica, Now,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: in Greenland we had the advantage of having doctor John
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Solberg with us, but in Antarctica we had access to telemedicine,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: which means that I had an emergency room doctor on
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: call that I could I could call a number on
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: the SAT phone and an emergency room doctor would be
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the first person to pick it up. It's not an
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: assistant or whatever. It's literally you get immediately on the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: phone with someone who can walk you through if you've
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: forgotten how to use a nasal pharyngeel, or you're working
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: with some medical kit that you're not familiar with. They
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: may be able to help help talk you through that
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: in the field, So you may want to consider some
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: form of a telemedicine option as well. On the motorcycle,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the kit needs to be even more compact. And then
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you know, there's other good companies out there like Adventure
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Medical Kits and.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the consideration is change.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: On a motorcycle too, you're you know, you're way more likely,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the sounds were probably more likely to need
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: some kind of GI stuff, So I can have beedpack
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: or something like that, because you're going to be eating
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: local food more all the time. You're also going to
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: be way more likely to fall on a motorcycle, So
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you need to be prepared. You need to know how
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: to splint, you need to know how to you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: road rash, like do you need to clean the wound?
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: You know, there's there's parts of the world that still
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: don't have you know, good access to healthcare in some
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: places that you're going to be even even in the
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: first world, even in California, that you're just going to
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: be so remote that you need to be able to
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: fix the problem.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And I always bring along one of those emergency dental kits,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and I always bring along the syringe kit, you know,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: so when you walk when you walk into that clinic
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: in the middle of Uganda, you can hand them like
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: these are all. This is everything you need, all the syringes,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: all of the needles, access IV all of it, so
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that you know they're using everything rash right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Off the bat.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: So it's it's a good idea to have that stuff
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: along and I do carry it with me on all
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of my trips.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: I always have some version of that kit.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And then you know, let's think emergency supplies for the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: vehicle to fire extinguisher. Every one of the if your
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: vehicle is modified, even if it's not modified, have some
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: kind of fire extinguisher in there. You know, they're very affordable.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Make sure that it's appropriately rated. Make sure it's something
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: that is rated, you know for automotive fires, you know.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And and then I always just have a small kind
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: of fix a kite sure in the car. So have
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a have a flair, have a have a road sign.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: You know, it's actually in some countries it's required for
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: you to. In most countries it's lair or or a
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: sangle safety kit. So yeah, just you know, be prepared.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be too prepared. And I think
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: my advice is just have a realistic look at your trip,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: you know, in the same way that I like to
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: carry paper maps, because the thing that is most likely
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to go wrong on on an overland trip is that
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: you're going to get lost. Well, for me, the second
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: most likely thing is probably that somebody is going to
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: get sick because they eat something. Be prepared for these things,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and it's that prior preparation that's going to prevent horror performance.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: That's right, exactly exactly I like to have. This is
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: maybe a little bit outside of the scope of basics.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: But I do like to have a little bug out kit.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I make sure that the backpack is never anything tactical.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I made the mistake of doing that early on, and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: when you're in other countries, it looks tach it looks
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: it looks tactic. I've seen people get strip searched in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Japan because they were for no other reason than they
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: were dressed in all. I mean, they look like Seal
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Team six. And in's some countries if you look like
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Seal Team six, they kind of go and say, huh yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: So I do like to have a little bug out kit,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: just a very simple pack that just looks like a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: backpacker's pack you would see somebody crossing around Europe, and
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: then I just shove some basics in there. That's where
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I make sure I've got my community device, I've got
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: some water, I've got some of like a small puffy
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: jacket and a tarp and stuff like that. And the
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: reason why I started carrying that is the first time
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I had a vehicle fall into a crevasse where you're like,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm on the top of the you know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the a f Jatna Yoko Glacier in Iceland, and the
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: vehicle just broke through a snow bridge and I'm teetering
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, we were.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Lucky to get out of there.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: It could have been it could have been so easy
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: that that broke through and we needed to get out
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of the vehicle very quickly. And the second time I
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: realized the critical nature of it was when we had
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: a vehicle fall through the ice and a frozen lake
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: in Greenland. So, you know, like so quickly these things.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Or a fire we've all seen. We've seen the video
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: where you know, the jeep wrangler catches on fire and
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the guy has just a few minutes to grab some
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: basic supplies. So vehicle fires do happen. A failed water
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: crossing with a flowing river, those things happen. You need
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to be able to grab some basic supplies again, to
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: communicate and stay warm and dry until help arrives.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and on that fire thing recognized that most of these,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: most fires can be prevented. You know, there's certain vehicles
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: that have you know, like the North American INSPEC defenders
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: had an oil line that would eventually rot and then
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: few oil everywhere, and then all of a sudden, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: your perfect land rivers weren't to the ground. But get
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: that stuff sorted, you know, before you go, so you
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: don't have to use this stuff. Right, what do we
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: get next?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Man?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so tools, spares, basic fluids. Here's my favorite thing
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: to do is I like to work. And I'm not
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: saying that I always do this, but for a period
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: of time when I get a new vehicle, I like
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: to work with the factory toolkit, and I like to
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I like to bring tools into that factory kit because
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: then I know what I actually need on top of it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know. That was some great advice that I
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: received a long time ago. Yeah, it's so true.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: If you're going to bring along a CV axle to
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: replace it or repair it in the field, make sure
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: that you have the hub nut, that socket that can
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: remove that nut, all of those those basic spaars. Do
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: some research. Go on the forums specific to your vehicle
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and find out the stuff that tends.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: To go on web forum that has all of the
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: different sections for people that are traveling overland in different vehicles.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: It's called Portal Expedition. Yeah, something like that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, check out I hate Mud. If you got a
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: land cruiser, go on to expedition portal. There's so many
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Facebook groups too, you know, I can so many out there.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Go to a Facebook group online and say, Hey, I'm
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: going to drive this obscure car aroun the world.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: What should I bring? People probably going to be really excited.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: They'll want to help you, yep.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And they'll know what you should have because there's like
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: I when I had land rovers, I always brought fuel
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: pumps along with me because that was the thing that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: was most common to just completely leave you stranded. And
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: then there was a couple of little relays. Once you
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: figured out what the kit was, it wasn't so bad. Yeah,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: but you just have those basics. You just have those
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: basics on there. My toolkit my land Cruiser involves a
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: ham sandwich and perfect Yeah.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Tire repair.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Know how to repair a tire before you go, and
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: even if you haven't done it in a while, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: maybe it's time to just find that old tire and
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: fix it. It's something that most people can always get
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: better at.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: It's the most common failure that we're going to have
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: in the field is a tire failure, so be prepared
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: for that. If you have anything along with you, make
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: sure you've got a way to air up a tire
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: if it's slowly, a way to air it back up
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: after you've repaired it, even if it's a foot pump
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: or suffering anything.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: You know, anything is going to be better. Know how
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: to do that. You know, always have a full sized spare.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, new tires are so good, and if you're
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: paying attention. There are some people who are very tire
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: failure prone, so they should probably have two spares.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: But most there's always people that don't actually pay attention.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: There they are the person.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: They're the same people who like drive up onto the
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: embankment and then roll their car for no reason, in
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the same way that people don't move the six inches
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: around the around the sharp rock, or they don't they
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: don't consider that into their line.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: That was how I got my first flat on a trip,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: was just not paying attention. I was fiddling with a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: GPS and I got a flat. So that's when that
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: stuff happens. But in general, you don't need If you're
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of solo travel, you may want to
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: consider a second.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Spare, and it's just something, and it is an instant
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: game over. If you don't have it, you don't have
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: a way to repair it, You're you're just not going anywhere.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so I guess recovery is the next logical thing.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Full disclosure here, guys, I am the US Max Tracks distributor.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I had used the product a long time before I
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: was here. So yeah, we're going to talk about recovery
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: boards and all that stuff. But I think even if
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: you don't go down that route, self recovery is really important.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Whether that's a winch, whether that are those are recovery boards.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I mean even like a you call my tear fruit style,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I was just calling a.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Handle handwhich uh you uses the steel cable and it
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: has these set of teeth that it kind of like.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: It's a really extensive ration strap.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Very yeah, very extensive ratseet strap and they can usually
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: handle a couple thousand pounds. They're a great addition to
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: a winch too. If you're in really muddy technical train
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and you're doing some very complicated recoveries, that can be
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: beneficial for that. But if you've already got a high
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: lift on your vehicle, learn how to use it, bring
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: along a high lift recovery kit so that way you
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: can use it as a winch if you need to versatile. Yeah,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: have a shovel in your kit. You're gonna need it
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: for when you go to the bathroom. You might as
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: well have a shovel to get yourself one.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Stuff like that glock entrenching tool. Yeah, it's a real
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: super smallity.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: They're like, I mean it's it's actually made by Glock. Yes,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the glock pistol. Yeah, really cool. I mean I have
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: one of those in all of my car.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: They're awesome.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: A shovel is always going to be better to have
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: than not a shovel. And then I think it's important
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: to have a way to do self recovery with groups.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: And I've gotten stuck on my own. I remember going
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: screwing around on the beach while everybody else was having tacos,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and I got stuck. And so having a way to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: get self recovered, even if you're in a group is important.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: You may get separated, you may decide to go do
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: a side trip or something like that. So always have
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a way to get yourself out. That can be a winch.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: If you're in the in the deserts, you may not
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: be able to connect to a tree, So have a
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: way to do self recovery or know how to do that,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: get training on how to do self recovery and using
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: a wink so important.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: If you if you've never taken even a basic four
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: wheel drive training course, you know, please do it. There
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: are there are a lot of resources. Mean, there's seven
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: p they do great training. They actually handle all this
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: stuff at over On Expo. I know a lot of
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: those guys, very friendly. You know Barlow, she's an if
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: w DTA trainer, so I for w DTA's International Four
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Wheel Drive Trainers Association. They are you're you're going to
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: find one in your area. The guys are all top notch.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: There's Overland Training in Prescott, which is something that we
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: used to run but is now run by the guys
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: at field Craft who ye who are very experience.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Very experienced.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: You want to talk about guys, they are going to
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: teach you to be calm under pressure. A bunch of
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: you know former I call.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: And then start off with a jack. Start off with
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: recovery boards. I think recovery boards are very useful because
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: you can move them from vehicle to vehicle. Decide you're
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: going to go out one day and you're jeep and
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: the next day you're going to go out in your forerunner.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: It's so easy to move them from car to car.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: You can you can walk down a muddy road and
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: help out a stranger that's stuck. Maybe you don't have
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: access to it. And then they work in the desert
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: where there aren't trees and it's more difficult to attach
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: a winch to. So I actually like to have both.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I like to have a winch on my vehicle and
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I like to have traction boards on my vehicle.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, so I'll stay out of the traction
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: board thing because of because of ethics. I want to
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: make sure that we're we're looking after the readers here. Yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: so let's move on to just like preparing your vehicle.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So making sure you making sure that you have recovery
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: points is a massive thing. You know, a lot of
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: recovery points, or a lot of what you believe to
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: be a recovery point on a vehicle may actually be
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: a lashing point during transit.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: It's a transit lashing point. Yeah. So you know, Wrangler
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: is great with that g Wagon is great with that Gladiator.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I mean there's there's several vehicles, several manufacturers have actually
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: offered rated recovery points now you know. Something I do
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: want to say is if you are going to add
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: recovery points to your vehicle, make sure that that it
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: is a rated recovery point, right, an engineered recover an
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: engineered rated recovery point. You actually want to see data
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: on that, believe it or not, like a dude that
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: says it's good enough, Oh it won't break.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: It's got greade, a bolts or whatever. You want. Somebody
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: that knows what they're doing on that, right. Yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I think ARB makes rated recovery remembers points that incorporate
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: into several attachment points on the frame. I think TGM
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: does it as well, and.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: You'll see a lot of the Australian companies that do
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: it because there are actually like Australian design rules and
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: regulations around what can and cannot be sold as a
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: recovery point. So if you have a vehicle that that
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: is a great place to look, you know. But I mean, frankly,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: like a lot if the recovery point is engineered as
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: part of the bumper, you know, usually it's fine. But
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I'm always weary of oh yeah, I welded these, I
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: welded these d shackle mounts on myself, and I'm like, yeah,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: like there's no disrespect. But you know, you can have
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: a three quarter inch piece of cut steel, but you
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: know they welded onto you know, crappy Chinese may discount
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: parts buyer bumpers.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to say a company, but I'm not. And
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: just just just be careful there, right, Yeah, make sure
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: that the recovery points are rated. Understand how that rating
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: system works, what's the what are they rated to. They
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: need to be rated to at least the gross vehicle
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: weight rating of the vehicle, preferably one or two times that.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: And then from that point then you can feel confident
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: to have a recovery when you're stuck in the mud.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And then so let we don't want to be exclusionary
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: in this case. So are there are times like let's
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: say you love this old Mercedes Sedan and that's what
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you decide to drive around the world in. You still
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: need to pay attention to self recovery because you're maybe
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: even more likely to get stuck. So a lot of
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: vehicles don't have any recovery points or even a means
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: of installing one. So there is a way to do
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: that using what's called a transit cluster that again requires
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of training and understanding of the limits. So
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: they are going to be much less than gross vehicle weight,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: so it's going to need to be a very gentle,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: managed and controlled extraction. But look into a transit cluster.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: If you, for example, drive a Subaru that doesn't have
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: a recovery point, and I think that's where recovery boards
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: just makes so much. They make a lot of sense
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: for vehicles that are a little bit more obscure. You're
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: not having to modify anything.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: There's very little risk to the end user, you know,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: orcovery board is not going to snap and send trapneal places.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen that. Yeah, I mean you never know.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: There's there's some of them that were made poorly, and
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I think they did break and break and send off
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: into different directions. But you know, I think what you'll
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: notice so far in this discussion is we're not talking
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: about modifying the car at all yet because you don't
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: actually have to. I think that modifications are important when
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: the conditions demand it. If the conditions don't demand it,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: spend the money on gas and tacos and experiences. As
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: we talk needs versus once just be honest with yourself.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you have a very generous budget and
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you want to drive the Pan American Highway on thirty
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: seven's with danas sixties and you want to do everything
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: that you think you're going to need, but just travel
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: within your means. Again, it's about travel. Yeah, have that
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: have those travel experiences be the priority. But we do
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: recognize that these are the things that we're recommending. They
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: are recommendations. We're not saying that you have to have
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: them to travel, but we have found if you do
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: have them, you're going to improve your outcomes.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Except for a full size spear.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, full size spare you should probably have, although
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: there's I mean, how many times we spares. So, but
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you do want to have recovery points. It's a good
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: idea to know where they are in the vehicle, how
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: do you access them. Some of them you need to
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: remove dust caps and they need to be screwed in.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: If you've bought the vehicle used, make sure that that
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: hasn't been removed or stolen or whatever.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: That will be in your in your toolkit and that
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: won't be there because you know they had their vehicle
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: towed to the dealership or whatever and then it got
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: taken off. Just make sure that you verify that those
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: keys are there.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, check that stuff for how those recovery points are
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: attached to the vehicle, because again some of them are
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: just screwed in and oftentimes they have the provision for it,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: because the tow truck driver will have a set of
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: these on his vehicle, but you may not have one
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: in your car. So like if you have a BMWX five,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: it's probably not going to have the recovery point in
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the vehicle because the tow truck driver would have those
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: in their trucks. So make sure that you you buy
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: whatever you need in order to have a proper recovery point.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I think that that's important, just verifying, you know. I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: guess the next thing loading and lashing. So everything that
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: is in your car that is not bolted down or
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: properly strapped is a projectile, right, I know, nothing's going
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: to go wrong.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: I'm a good driver.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, it doesn't matter because the bus that just
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: ran out in front of you because he ran a
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: red light and you ran into them because you can
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: only physically stop so quickly. None of that stuff matters, right,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: So that little fire exting. I'm sure we told you
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to have. If that's not properly secured, I have seen photos,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I have seen accidents where things go through go through windshields.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so make sure that that's where.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: If you're if you're doing this really long term and
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: you have a you have a lot of things to store,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: a particular lot of loose things. That is where I
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: do like like drawer systems and cases are are the
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: simplest thing. Most vehicles will have lashing points in the trunk.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Let's make sure that those lashing points are actually strong enough,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: because if they're on a saturn, maybe they're not really
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: meant to take the away, but most pickup trucks or
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: SUVs generally, if it's a factory lashing point, that's pretty good.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: What you don't want to do is go to Harbor
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Freight and buy the little trailer lashing points and use
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: them without a backing plate because that little you know,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: that little screw that you just put through could find
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: it's just going to pull right out in an accident.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: It will. I like those roller cams, the little blue
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: kayak straps.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those work really good. I like I like the
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: quickie tie downs, little ratcheting ones. Those are really effective.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't generally like bungee cords for
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: anything that's hard or heavy. Bungee cords or bungee nets
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: are fine for jackets and sleeping bags and things like that,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: but you don't want to use it to secure anything
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: heavy because they just they stretch, so they're going to
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: stretch under those kinds of loads. This is very fundamental.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: We just it's just like when we talk about payload.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: If anybody that's listening to this podcast takes away the
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: reminder of always lashing down their gear when they go
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: on a trip, I'm going to feel like I won
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the day because it's going to really it's going to
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: save some heartache. So so camping, I guess as an
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: essential part of overlanding. Yeah, oftentimes you end up camping,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes you don't, So this is really optional, but I
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: did want to include it because again, we want it
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: to be about the experience first. It's surprising how much
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: can be done with the same stuff that you've got
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: in your backpack, the backpack that you've used to go backpacking,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: maybe even ten years ago, with all of those small
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: stoves and sleeping pads and tents and everything else. Start
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: with that, and then, like Matt talks about, determine at
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the end of your first weekend trip like oh, this
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: really didn't work or this is this goes flat or whatever,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: or this wasn't warm enough, and then you start to
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: augment your kit with the things that you really need.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: But then it's also possible to go entirely around the
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: world and have an amazing journey and never camp once.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: So we're not saying that overlanding has to include camping.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: It often does. I think it's an added experience to it.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: This thing where.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: You're saying in hotels, you're not overlanding, and like Quone says,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: who everybody does, I just don't talk about it, you know.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes sometimes you need a shower, Yeah, Sometimes you
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: need a shower. Sometimes you just need to sit and
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: watch TV. Yeah, sometimes you need to be away from
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: the stimulus of other people, you.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Know, or like for me, I need to work every
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: few days when I'm traveling, so I'll get a hotel
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: so I can get reliable Wi Fi, I can have
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: a place to stop and rest and write or work.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think where I was going with that is.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, since this podcast is about the basic preparations
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: you make for overl and travel, recognize that if you're
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: on a budget, or at the opposite end, you're not
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: on a budget, you know, maybe you don't even need
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: that stuff.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Yep, you know, I know. That's my goal with this
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: podcast is to get people to travel so and realistic. Yep.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: What works for you is what works for you. That's right.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And for those that are listening, you'll notice we've gotten
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: to the end of the list and we've not talked
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: once about long travel. We've not talked once about some
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: fancy refrac or snorkel. We're talking about really about the fundamentals,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: the basic preparations for travel. People have gone around the
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: world with less than this, so these are really the fundamentals.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And then once you start to travel and you identify
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: either this is the place that I'm going and it
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: requires a certain amount of capability, then I'm going to
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: prepare for that. Or I find that when I do
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: my trips, these tires just don't work for me and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to upgrade them, Or my suspend is too
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: soft and I need to upgrade the springs. But start
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: off with doing the trips first and finding out what
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: you really need, not just what looks looks cool on
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: the glossy cover of a magazine. So make sure that
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you start with these fundamentals and then only add things
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: that you need to and then you know, we've kind
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: of got some additional thoughts that kind of come along
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: this with this these fundamentals, which is the first one
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: is tell people where you're going. Make sure that you
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: let somebody know. Now again we're not telling you that
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: you have to do this. It's a good idea to
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: let people know where you're going. If you if you've
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: ever heard of Aaron Ralston and John Boy Canyon, you
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: know he had to cut his arm off because no
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: one knew that he was there, and if someone had
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: known he was traveling there, it would have it would
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: have changed the outcome. So let people know where you're going.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: And also Scott and Irebolt huge fans of mechanical sympathy.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Right again, overlining the goal is travel. The goal is
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: the vehicle is a tool, you know, one that we
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: get you emotionally connected to, but just drive conservatively, you
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: be gentle with it. There's a reason that they pull
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: people over for speeding because you know there's an exponential
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: increase over the speed limit of your likelihood to get
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: in an accident. Right or when you're off road, there's
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: always one guy who breaks everything and he always thinks
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: he's a legend, but.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: He's usually the worst driver out of all of the bunch.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: So again, get get training and they're going to teach
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: you mechanical sympathy. Just look after the vehicle, and generally speaking,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: the vehicle, we'll look after you. If your vehicle's not
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: happy doing ninety, don't do ninety. Yeah, And that reinforces
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: this idea that we've talked about. With training, that teaches
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: us the skills to be more effective with the vehicle
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: that we already have as a driver, we can go further,
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: we can go into more challenging areas without modifications because
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: we've gained skills. And then that also teaches us those
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: concepts of mechanical sympathy. Crawl underneath your car and get
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: an idea, and then and also work on what's your
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: daily inspection when you're out traveling. It's it sounds like
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: we're being super Boy Scout with that, but I have
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: struggled so many times in my life by not just
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: taking three minutes and looking under the car and noticing
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: a little pool of oil or noticing the shock.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: That there's always a warning sign.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you just take a take a few minutes,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: five minutes, ten minutes to go through and check your
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: check your belts, check your hoses, because you can fix
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: that stuff when you're already in a cool place here,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: you're camping, you're already in a or you're already in
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: the city where you can get access to support. So
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: do that date those daily inspections as well. Yeah, figure
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: out where you're going is also a big thing. You know.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I went through a period where I like to kind
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: of just get to a place and then talk to
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: people and figure out what I wanted to do. There's
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: certain there's certain adventures in which that works good, but
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I generally find that having itineraries Like I love Google Maps.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: One of the for many reasons, but for one of
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: the since is that you can use my maps on
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Google Maps, and you can actually go and save things
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: on Google Maps. They're available on your phone offline. I've
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I have this I call it my secret Baja, a
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: map for example, that has like every cool campsite that
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: I've been to, every mission, every sweet taco spot, you know,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: every decent hotel, every this is an emergency hotel, you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: tire shops, whatever, like everything that I've found useful. But
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I just have the information there. I don't I don't
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: necessarily have a root planned, but it's nice to just
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: know where stuff is that that that interests you, and
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: I think it.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Adds to the experience. It adds to the excitement of going.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: It also gives you an opportunity to sit down with
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: your partner or whoever you're going to travel with, your buddy,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: your friend, and sit down and look at the pictures
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: of the places you're going to, get excited, do some research,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: and then you're going to find that one little beach
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: with the with the mission and the great restaurant, and
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: and the next thing, you know, you've really added to
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: your experience. So I do think that research is a
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: fundamental and it allows us to best have our best experience.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes the best experience is no research at all.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: And we're not saying that that isn't true, because it
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: absolutely is.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some trips that it's kind of fun on,
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: but on others, I wouldn't want to maybe do that, Well, Matt,
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: you got any other thoughts on that?
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: No, just keep it about travel, guys, and hopefully this
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: you know both both people that are brand new to
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: overlanding and people that have been around for a while.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I'm have have something to take from this as always.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: You know, Scott can be reached, So you're Scott dot
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: A dot Brad dot Brady and then I'm mad explore
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: on Instagram. Feel free to reach out, Yeah, give us feedback,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: tell us what you'd like to hear if you've got questions.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And then, since this is very list based, we are
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: going to have all of that in detail in the
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: show notes, including some recommendations for products. None of them
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: are going to be based upon any affiliation. It's just
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: going to be things that we recommend. So take a
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: look at the show notes to get those detailed lists.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: And we appreciate everyone listening. We appreciate everyone going out
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and seeing the world, and we also look forward to
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: hopefully seeing some of you when we're out traveling about
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Take care, guys,