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Almost Famous: A Time to Listen · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: with i R Radio. This is another Almost Famous special episode. Obviously,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: there's been a lot that's gone on in Bachelor Nation
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: over the last week. Uh. We do break down this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: show on this podcast, and so it's important for us
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. Uh. Today we're bringing in somebody.
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  Speaker 1: Uh who Uh I know, Ashley, you've been a fan
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of for a while. His wife is a fan of
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the show. It's Megan Good And Uh and how did
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: you come across uh, Davon or do you want to
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: tell him in person? I? Okay, Well, Uh, Davon Franklin
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  Speaker 1: is gonna be our guest today. Uh. If you don't
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: know of Devon he, I mean his resume is incredible.
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  Speaker 1: He's an award winning producer, New York Times best selling author,
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  Speaker 1: which I know how hard that is to become, and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it's not easy. I am not one of those yet. Um,
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  Speaker 1: and a renowned motivational speaker. Uh. He has made this
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  Speaker 1: commitment and in his words and his bio, he says
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: he's made a commitment to inspire people around the world
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  Speaker 1: through entertainment. Uh. He is definitely a force in media. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: He is an inspiration to many. Uh. I'm really pumped
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  Speaker 1: to talk to the day because he's one of those
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: people uh again that like I never thought I would
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  Speaker 1: have the opportunity to talk to uh. And if you
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: sit down with a in a room with him, I
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  Speaker 1: just imagine the wisdom, insight, uh, the things that he
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  Speaker 1: could share with anybody. I'm sure people pay a lot
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  Speaker 1: of money to hear him speak, and we're lucky enough,
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  Speaker 1: um to have him on the podcast today to speak
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  Speaker 1: on this topic and to educate us all, to share
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: with us all his thoughts. UH. Now before we get going, UH,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously after the interview with Rachel Lindsay, Chris
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  Speaker 1: Harrison UH has now came out with a few apologies.
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a paraphrase version here for everybody, just
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: because there are long um, but we've come down with
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the meat of what's going on. I'm gonna read those
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  Speaker 1: to you now. This is from Chris Harrison to my
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  Speaker 1: Bachelor Nation family. I will always own a mistake when
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  Speaker 1: I make one, so I'm here to extend a sincere apology.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Yesterday I took a stand on topics which I should
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  Speaker 1: not have, which I should have been better informed what
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  Speaker 1: I now realized I have done in is cause harm
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  Speaker 1: by wrongly speaking in a manner that perpetuates racism, and
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  Speaker 1: for that I am deeply sorry. I promised to do
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  Speaker 1: better then. Uh, just a few days later, maybe a day,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know the exact timeline. Uh. Chris came out
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  Speaker 1: with the second apology. Uh. This one is a little longer,
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  Speaker 1: so bear with me, uh, he says, and I quote.
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  Speaker 1: I've spent the last few days listening to the pain
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  Speaker 1: my words have caused, and I'm deeply remorseful. My ignorance
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  Speaker 1: did damage to my friends, colleagues, and strangers alike. I
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: have no one to blame but myself for what I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: said and the way I spoke. I set standards for
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: myself and have not met them. I feel that with
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  Speaker 1: every fiber of my being now. I feel that with
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: every fiber of my being now. Just as I taught
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  Speaker 1: my children to stand up and own their actions, I
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  Speaker 1: will do the same. By excusing historical racism, I defended it.
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  Speaker 1: I invoked the oh crap. Oh. I invoked the term
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  Speaker 1: woke police, which is unacceptable. I am ashamed over how
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  Speaker 1: uninformed I was. I was so wrong to the black
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  Speaker 1: community to the b I p o C. Community. I
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  Speaker 1: am so sorry my words were harmful. I am listening,
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  Speaker 1: and I truly apologize for my ignorance and any pain
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  Speaker 1: it caused you. I want to give my heartfelt thanks
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  Speaker 1: to the people from these communities who have had enlightening
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  Speaker 1: conversations with over the past few days, and I am
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  Speaker 1: so grateful to those who have reached out to help
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  Speaker 1: me on my path to anti racism. This historic season
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  Speaker 1: of The Bachelor should not be marred or overshadowed by
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the mistake or diminished by my actions. To that end,
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  Speaker 1: I have consulted with Warner Brothers and ABC and will
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  Speaker 1: be stepping aside for a period of time and will
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  Speaker 1: not join the after the final Rows special. I'm dedicated
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: to getting educated on more profound and productive level than
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  Speaker 1: ever before. I want to ensure our cast and crew members,
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  Speaker 1: to my family, colleagues, and our fans, this is not
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  Speaker 1: just a moment, but a commitment to much greater understanding
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  Speaker 1: that I will actively make every day. From here. I
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  Speaker 1: can only try to evolve and be a better man,
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  Speaker 1: and I humble myself before all of you. I hope
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  Speaker 1: I will again live up to the expectations you all
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  Speaker 1: rightfully have for me and the expectations I have for myself.
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  Speaker 1: So following UH, you know, we just read Chris Harrison's
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  Speaker 1: apology and and I want to pause here and say
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  Speaker 1: that we're having this conversation today, UH, based on the
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  Speaker 1: interview that Rachel Lindsay held with Chris Harrison on Extra.
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  Speaker 1: Extra is a show that Rachel Lindsay hosts. Now, Rachel
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  Speaker 1: Lindsay has continued to use her platform to be bold, UH,
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  Speaker 1: to be outspoken, and to continue these conversations that we've
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  Speaker 1: needed to have and that we have continued to have
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  Speaker 1: UH for a long time. Now. You know, people wiser
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  Speaker 1: than me have used the phrase we need to meet
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  Speaker 1: the moment, and we do. We also need to follow
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  Speaker 1: this moment, UH, to continue to educate, to continue to listen,
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  Speaker 1: and to continue to get better from here and now.
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  Speaker 1: But we're here today discussing this because of the work
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  Speaker 1: that Rachel Lindsay did on Extra in her interview with
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  Speaker 1: Chris Harrison. I think it's important that we're having this
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: conversation now after I've had the past few days to reflect.
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  Speaker 1: Jared and I have talked about race in this franchise
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  Speaker 1: and gone through so many emotions the past couple of days.
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  Speaker 1: We listened to the interview with Chris and Rachel multiple times,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, we were extremely disappointed. We put out
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  Speaker 1: a statement on Friday, which are words that I still
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  Speaker 1: stand by. We spent the entire weekend just talking about everything.
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  Speaker 1: We listened to Rachel's podcast I'm Higher Learning. We read
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Charlene's article, which I strongly suggest you guys read It's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: at all the Pretty pandas dot com. I agree with
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  Speaker 1: so much that she says in there, and she's so
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  Speaker 1: amazingly articulate. Every time something like this comes up, um
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  Speaker 1: and it's just just, you know, it's disappointing, it's um difficult.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to talk all about it with Devon and
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: get into the interview itself, race issues within the franchise,
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  Speaker 1: and the future of both the franchise and Chris all
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of it. So, coming off of this apology, obviously the
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  Speaker 1: dynamic within the Bachelor World and Bachelor Nation has changed.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: We're here to talk about it today. Uh, We're here
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  Speaker 1: to speak on it. And Ashley, I know you're a
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: fan of Devon, so you want to bring him in. Alright, guys,
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  Speaker 1: we have um in my opinion, somebody who is perfect
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  Speaker 1: for navigating us through this issue. His name is Davon
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: for Glenn, I'm a fan. I read his book The
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Weight and it was very inspiring. I actually found it
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: on Tanya Rad's desk at the I Heart Station and
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: I go, what's this about. She tell me how it
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: was just about well it's a little unrelated right now,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: but just romance and how it's worth the weights when
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: it comes into that department. And Devon, just a little
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: a little background. About six months after I read your book,
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  Speaker 1: I was engaged, and I was and I was single
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: when I read it. Yeah. Yeah, But but for our audience,
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  Speaker 1: you know, thank you. We are talking to him today
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  Speaker 1: about you know, um, this whole Chris Harrison conversation and
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  Speaker 1: um mistakes that we and others have made in the past.
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  Speaker 1: And Devon, in my opinion, is perfect for this because
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  Speaker 1: he's he's just a multi he's like really a mogul
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to media. He's an award winning producer,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: he's a New York Times bestseller, he's a renowned motivational speaker. Um,
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  Speaker 1: he's made a commitment to inspire people around the world
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  Speaker 1: through entertainment, and I can go through his his list
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  Speaker 1: of his resume right now, and it's very impressive. He's
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: grossed over one point seven million at the box office
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: UM through some of his movies like The Star and
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Miracles from Heaven UM and just a little fun note.
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  Speaker 1: He's also married to Megan Good, who was one of
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  Speaker 1: the prettiest actresses out there. So thanks for coming on, Devon. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: no problem, no problems to be here. Great to be
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  Speaker 1: with you both. Hey, Dvan, I didn't realize this, but
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  Speaker 1: now it's hitting me. I just came out my very
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: first book, UM about two weeks ago, and I have
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  Speaker 1: a chapter in there about Tanya rad and she speaks
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: in that chapter the whole chapters on singleness, but she
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: speaks in that chapter about a book that she read
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: that inspired her, made her feel less alone and more loved.
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  Speaker 1: And now I'm putting two to two together. That was
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: your book and I wrote about it without knowing whose
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: book was. So hey, that's pretty good stuff right there.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's crazy. It's amazing. Yeah, she's incredible, and
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  Speaker 1: that's my sister, and it's amazing just to see, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the impact of the way and just you know, you know,
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  Speaker 1: look we wrote it from our experience, and it's blessing
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  Speaker 1: that it's touched so many people, especially her and you all.
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  Speaker 1: So it's it's an honor to be with you the show.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that's probably where, I mean, where would
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: be best to start here. So you do a lot
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: of stuff, and I think that you know, you're you're all,
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  Speaker 1: You're all of the place. What you what you've touched
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  Speaker 1: has been successful, You've tasted success, You've I'm sure within
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: that you've tasted some things that haven't been successful. Uh,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: maybe to give a perspective of where you come from
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: when you in turn and into these things. Why do
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you do what you do? Yeah, you know a great question.
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  Speaker 1: You know why I do what I do is, you know,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: goes back to the beginning. Um, the middle child of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: three boys, and when I was nine years old. My
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: father up until that point, you know, until me being nine,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: he was an alcoholic and he was in now in
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the house pretty much throughout my whole life. And then
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: when I was nine he died of a heart attack
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: when he was thirty six, and so he left Um. Um, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he left me and my brothers, who raised by my
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: mother and by my grandmother and my grandmother sisters, and
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: so that period of time was very difficult and what
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  Speaker 1: really got me through because we didn't have money for
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: you know, for therapy. I mean, you know, we were
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: on welfare. I mean, it was a very difficult moment
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  Speaker 1: of time, and it was watching entertainment and going to
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: church that really helped me get through. And movies like
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Back to the Future and Rocky and the Colored Purple
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: and uh TV shows like a Different World. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: those shows just blew my mind and really helped me
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  Speaker 1: navigate this period of time. And so I figured, you know,
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  Speaker 1: if I can use the combination of what I learned
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: in church, when I'm learning in church and entertainment to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: help improve people's lives, that was really the why, because
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I know what it's like to by yourself. I know
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: what it's like to go through tragic moments. I know
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: what it's like to feel like you're all alone. And
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  Speaker 1: I really feel like people come to entertainment as to
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: escape their reality, and so what better way to help
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: them in reality than to give them something during that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: escape worthwhile. So that's really why I do what I do.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: So you, I believe are a Bachelor fan or you're
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: at least familiar enough with the franchise for this conversation.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Megan is she's been a she's been
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: a member of Bachelor Nation longer than me. She got
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: me watching. Yeah, that's so exciting. And hear yeah, oh yeah,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I think I started watching. Um, it had to be
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: at least three or four seasons ago, and so yeah,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: now I'm just totally hooked. So we just go from Bachelor, Bachelorette,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Bachelor in Paradise, the whole is all year, you know,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So I've been watching. I watched the whole Bachelorette with
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Claire and then um uh tysia excuse me, um, and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: then obviously watching with Matt James every week and and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: all of it. So yeah, I'm pretty up to speed
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: with what's going on. And I'm waiting week to week
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: to see the news. So I'm very, very familiar with
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: the situation, the circumstances and all that has been going on. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: do you have any initial thoughts before we get into
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: specific questions? UM, I got a lot of thoughts. So
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you just get into the questions so
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: that when we can just hear everything you want to
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: you wantakay. I got a lot of thoughts. Alright, well
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: you uh, you came on a day because you are
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: familiar with the situation. Obviously, just if anybody's out there
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: listening who doesn't know what's going on, I mean, um,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: this last week early on Rachel Lindsay, who hosts for Extra,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: did interview with Chris Harrison. Uh. Conversations came up about
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: a contestant on the show. Her name is Rachel Um.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: There are some pictures that were shown of her at
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: an Antebellum themed party. Rachel asked Chris for his response.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Uh and uh, and I don't even know it's unless
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: we play the interview. I can't even really summarize his response,
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  Speaker 1: but the in short, the response gained a lot of attention.
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  Speaker 1: Uh and uh. The attention wasn't necessarily positive for Chris.
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  Speaker 1: And at this point in time, Chris is announced that
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: he is stepping away temporarily at this point um from
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the show. And so if you haven't seen the interview,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I just pause this. You know, this conversation here, go
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: watch that. It's going to give you more perspective into
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: what we talk about and how we break down and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and try to figure out what's going on with everything
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: with de Von Devon to dig in here. Um, you
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  Speaker 1: know I'm coming into this today and I've prayed through this.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I told Ashley Naming, I was gonna take an hour
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: before this conversation and pray through it. It always, I
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: don't know, helps at some level, UM, get perspective. I
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: think there's one thing. I was just talking to my
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: fiance up stairs before I came down. I said, I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: kind of want to start this by by telling you,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: um that it's it's felt heavy. I think for everybody. Uh,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: since that interview Rachel has has has felt heavy. I'm
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: sure Chris, uh, you know, feels heavy. I was able
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to speak with him for for a while last night
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: before this interview. Um, it feels really heavy. And so
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I want to start by saying, when you're in the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: midst of a heaviness, right. I was reading uh Morgan
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Harper Nichols this morning, who I'm having on my show
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night, um, and she talks about when you're in
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: a season of heaviness, like it's hard to see the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: joy beyond it. It's hard to see any any light
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: beyond anything good coming from it. So when we're in
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: seasons of heaviness, like a lot of people are feeling
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: in this situation others, what do you always recommend doing? Uh?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Don't resist it? Mhm. You know. Um, so often where
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: we want to feel good, and there's nothing wrong with
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: that that we all wanted, But when these moments happen,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: they're happening for a reason. If we look at life
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: as a mirror, sometimes some things get reflected that we
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: wish we didn't see, but they're there, and when we
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: try to push and just get to the good time,
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  Speaker 1: we may miss the power and the purpose of the pain.
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  Speaker 1: So in this heaviness, and rightfully so, Uh, I would
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: encourage anyone just not to not to rush through it,
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  Speaker 1: to evaluate it, to understand this too will pass. You know,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: this is a season. It's not gonna be this way forever.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: But what do I need to know in this season?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And and how can the heaviness actually be a helper
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  Speaker 1: to me? Um? Because sometimes when we have that heaviness,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: that emotional weight, that's sometimes when we get our greatest revelations,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: when we get our greatest breakthroughs, when we get to
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  Speaker 1: begin to see, Okay, this is where I'm supposed to
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: go this when I'm supposed to do, I realize, oh,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: there's some things about me I want to change. Seasons
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: of heaviness can come with some of the greatest help
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: we get. So I would just encourage anyone not to
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: encourage yourself, especially don't don't rush through it. Sift through it,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: see what's there for you, and know that eventually it
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: will pass. You bring up something about like sitting through
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: it um and like really reflecting, and I know that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: that's something that Ben and I feel is very important
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: in moments like this. We are um, I don't want
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: to say pressured, but like really encouraged to speak out
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: immediately and like to react more than to reflect in
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: moments like this. How do you feel about that culture
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: that we're living in where things need to seem to
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: be immediate? Mm hm. So, so it's there's a there's
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: a nuance, and it really depends on the circumstances situation.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: So if you have nothing to do with the situation, right,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: then I do think, all right, let me take a
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: minute evaluate what's going on, and then I'll speak when
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like I feel strong enough to speak. If
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: there's no real other reason why I should be speaking
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: if I'm not the person that's a part of it.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: In this situation, you know, I know we're gonna get
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: into it. Um. You know, there there is one party
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that I argue did not speak up soon enough, because
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: in speaking up sooner, some of what we all now
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: our experiencing could have been mitigated. And and because there
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: wasn't a voice, you know, there's there's this scripture, there's
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: this not a scripture is actually saying that this nature
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: abhors a vacuum. So wherever there's a vacuum, nature wants
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: to fill it as it relates to the allegations and
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and what was what we've been you know what has
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: just recently happened. There was a vacuum because nobody was
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: addressing it and the party privit, who party who was
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: about didn't say anything for for you know, six weeks.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: So what happens is in that vacuum we find the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Chris Harrison situation. Right. So so in this in this scenario,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I do think that you have to evaluate where you
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: are in the situation that's being asked to be spoken about,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and if you are one of the parties that actually
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: can add light and add clarity to to give emphasis
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: to what really did or didn't happen. I think that
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: that probably makes that that emphasis and that that communication
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: mob priority. Whereas if you are just a bystander, you're
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: just hey commenting, then sometimes it's better to reserve judgment
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: before you know all the facts, and then once you
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: know the facts and how you feel about those facts.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Been speaking from an educated point of view is always,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, the best place to speak. So to
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: give clarity what we're talking about is, I mean Rachel
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: kirk Canal. I think that's how you say her last name. Uh,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: it's close enough, and I think it's like, uh, Rachel
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: k let's say that uma Rachel. Uh. There's a lot
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of Rachel's in here, so you need to be clear.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Rachel Kah had some allegations out against her for I
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: think it was six weeks, right, These these things were swirling.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: She knew of them. It wasn't kind of in and
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: it wasn't lost upon her. I know she knew of her,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and nothing was said right, nothing was said, and so
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Chris Harrison ended up needing or being questioned and asked
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: to speak up on her part um. So if we
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. Though, if I'm hearing it right,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you're what you're saying is Rachel should have Rachel k
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: should have said something. She should have responded to this
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: if she, if she could have, sure. So So I'm
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: gonna say two things. I'm gonna address Rachel Kay in
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a minute. You all know much more about the ins
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: and outs of the Bachelor world in production than I do. Um.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: One of the many hats that I wear is I'm
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: a producer, so I produced you know, many films, and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: before I was a producer, I was an executive for
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Sony Pictures Entertainment, and I've done you know, a lot
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: of movies. So I'm very familiar with production. In my experience,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and in my opinion that the Bachelor team, whoever that is,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: if that's ABC or the Bachelor producers, should have been
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the first ones to say they're smoke here, we need
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to deal with this. And she's a contestant on a
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: show and she's in a big machine. I'm not going
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to excuse her. I have some points later which we'll
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: get to, but like when when it all started to
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: smoke to me, the show should have said, wait, we've
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: got to address this now. And put this to bed
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: instead of hoping, seemingly hoping that it would just kind
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: of go away and the chatter online would die. Because
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: what that did was if she if she was not
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: approached by the show and to say, hey, this is
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: a problem, you need to address it, then if she
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: was left to her own devices, I can imagine the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: fear that she may have had needing to address something
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that when she ultimately made her statement that she was
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: completely ashamed of and mortified but still had to own
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: up too. But owning up to that those type of
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: things does take courage and it also takes support. Right,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: So yes, I do think that Rachel should have spoken
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: up way sooner. But I also wonder where was ABC
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and the Bachelor team in this process and how how
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: effective were they initially when they saw this and trying
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: to to, you know, bring this to to ahead quickly.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: It's it's an interesting statement and I want to dig
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: into that for a second because it's something that hasn't
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: gotten talked about enough from your I mean, I'm not
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: a producer. I've never produced a show. I've been on
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: a reality television show. I would never claim that my
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: experience or my knowledge of production is vast, so you
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: have been behind the scenes. If there anything inside of you, UM,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that could all explain why ABC has a contestant on
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: their show. And there's people hurt by the things that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: they're hearing, right the black community, the people of color
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: are being hurt by the things that are they're hearing
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and seeing from what has gone on in the past.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: ABC knows of this, yet nothing is said for weeks
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: and so people not only is Rachel k hurting and
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: probably feeling I'm imagining based on her statement now really ashamed,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: really her really confused. Yet the people that you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: she's that have brought out the allegations of her and
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: ABC sitting there saying nothing. Why would that be? You know,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: you know, listen, UM, it's very hard without being in
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: those rooms just to to speak accurately on on what
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: is or what isn't. UM. You know, my my opinion
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and my assessment of the situation may have been they
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: probably talked about it. They probably felt like, you know, hey,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: let's just let's just see how this all kind of
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: plays itself out, you know, let's monitor the chatter. Um.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: And then it was a situation because Matt James even um,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I think did an interview where the question was brought
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: up and he kind of had to you know, he
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he kind of had it. He was put in a situation,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: which I think was unfair to put him in that
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: situation to defend something that he really has nothing about.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: He didn't know anything about the background of these women
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: before getting on the show. He just went on the
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: show and let his heart be his guide and then
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: all this stuff, that stuff started happening. So I would
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: believe that in a situation like this, the network may
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: have felt like, you know what, maybe we can just
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: ride this out, Maybe we don't need to actually, you know,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: deal with it, because maybe if we deal with it,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: maybe it'll make it bigger. That made that would be
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: my thought. Again, without being in those rooms. It's really
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: hard to say, because I do think I do think
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: that when you look at and and you know, this
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: is probably getting a little ahead of where we want
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to be. But I'll say this now, since we're talking
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: about the network. This the Bachelor franchise, and I don't
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: have to tell you all because you all are a
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: part of it, has had a has had a really
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: um uncomfortable dance with race from the beginning, And and
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: because in my experience with watching the show and just
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: what I've known about, you know, the franchise for for years,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: even before I was watching it, that that that disc
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that uncomfort you know, it doesn't go away. And just
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: by saying, oh, we've chosen the first black male bachelor,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: you know, the black black bachelor, then okay, we're doing
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: It's like no, there's so much that goes on with that.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And I do think that this situation, it's just a
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: symptom of the larger problem that the franchise has not
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: yet taken the time to really deal with effectively, you know.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: And so when this happens, it's like, oh, wow, we
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: can't believe this happened, But it's like, how can we
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: not know this wasn't gonna happen? What Rachel k has
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: now admitted that she was a part of those things,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: um are hurtful. And we're in a time now where
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: years ago it could have just gone away, but now
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you know, race and culture and and and and who
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: we are. It should have always been this way, but
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: even now you can't just those things don't get a
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: blind eye. So I think that because in my experience
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, the franchise has turned a blind eye
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: too many times that this is a symptom of a
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: problem that still needs significant UM care. It needs significant
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: an instruction on really how to reconcile. You know, this
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: franchise that is beloved around the world as it relates
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to race, specifically in this country. There's so much in
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: that moment that you just said there that I want
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to address UM. But I'll go like with with parts
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: right now. Okay. So I actually I reached out to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: some of the women of color from this season and
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: one of the women said that they feel like this
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: season has been um one step forward, two steps back,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: And I asked her, I go, so, other than this
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: extra interview, what have you guys felt has been a
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: step back? And she sent me, if you go to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Bachelor data on Instagram, they do graphs of screen time
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and stuff. We actually had the creator of this account
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: on and it shows that even though there are more
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: women of color than ever on the season, they're still
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: getting less screen time. And she also said, is that um,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: their love stories were barely featured. She said that they
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: chose to feature white women and petty drama instead when
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: they didn't have to. She said, we had an amazing
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: cast of women of color, and the audience didn't get
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: to know them. So I would say that that's one
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: of the root issues here in the franchise. Wow. Wow,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: well you're you're hitting the nail on the head. I mean,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: you know again, I'm watching the show and I'm just wondering.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: You know, no, no disrespect to Victorian, and I understand,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you know, all the you know values she brought. But
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, okay, we get it right, and we
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: get it, we understand it. The queen has spoken, But
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: now you are really you know after you know, I
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: think the episode or two before she finally was eliminated, Like,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: you're given all this energy and drama to this at
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the expense of these other women that really deserved time.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: So there's an intro statistic. I wasn't aware of it,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't surprise. It's uh, you know, it's it's funny.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: The whole time I was able to be on set
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: this year. Um, and there's this girl named Maggie who's
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: an incredible story. Uh. And the whole time I was
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: always hinting on this podcast because I did get the meter.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I was like I cannot wait for her story to
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: be shared, Like I cannot wait for her victories in
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: life and her journey in life and her story to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: be shared. It was never shared. Uh, and and I felt,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: you know, and and now it's kind of like every
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you know, um, everything should be uncovered at this point.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: The frustration I think that we were all experiencing, in
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: those of us who knew the girls behind the scenes,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit we're saying was these stories aren't being shared.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: It's frustrating. We need to share them because there's some
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: incredible people here and instead, like you said, hey, we're
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: not this is not a podcast about Victoria or the drama,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: but it is getting overshadowed. Their stories are being overshadowed.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Their stories are being covered up. This season didn't need
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to go this way. And I think that's just a critique. Um.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: That was you know, un solicited on my part. Hey,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: this season had a lot of potential. It felt very
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: far short, and I think I'm hoping now, uh, ABC
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: sees that, like I'm hoping that they see that, hey,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: they just missed the mark here. They had a great
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: opportunity and it did fall short. Well, speaking of fallen short,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you know, we are here to discuss um, Chris and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Rachel Lindsay's interview. Uh, and to start it. Uh, you've
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: watched it, correct, I did? Okay? Where did Chris go wrong?
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Loaded questions? Sorry, it's okay, It's okay. Listen. I don't
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: know Chris Harrison personally from everything I can to help
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: from watching the show. You know, he seems to be
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: a very good dude, very upstanding. Like you know, I
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: have great respect for him, even for someone I have
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: not met. Here's where he went wrong? You know. One
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: of the other things that I have I do. You know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I've been I've been you know, in entertainment since I
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: was eighteen years old, so you know, I've had to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: navigate entertainment, you know, as as a black man from
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: the beginning and most recently out of services as governor
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: for the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and Sciences, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: have done a lot of work around diversity. Here is
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest fatal flaws, I believe of the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Chris Harrison interview. We are at a time where you
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: we have to and this is this is going to
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: be this is a hard thing to do. But BEFO,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: when before you speak on race, especially if you're white,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: you you first have to ask yourself, well, what what
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: is my unconscious bias here? And letting me be be
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: very careful of not going on and talking about something
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: that I hadn't really thought about how the other side feels. First,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: there was there were a number of things I think
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Chris could have done better. Um, you know, the first
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: thing is limited to what he knew. I think the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: commentary about the woke police and the commentary about you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: oh well when she did that three years ago, you know,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: it was more like those are those those comments were
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: like no, no, no, Chris, you're you were Chris. We
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: were with you when you said you can only speak
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: from where you can what you know. But then when
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: you started to do that, what happened is he took
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: black people's pain and how we feel about how you know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: white people have trivialized our pain. You know, when you
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: look at those Antebellum parties, it's just a trivialization of
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: black pain. It's making fun of it. Hey, we're gonna
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: make fun of what you all actually had to go
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: through for our party, right like, and that's painful, and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: it was never in fashion, then it's not in fashion
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: now and and and so I think that to speak
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: in a way that was so pallas because of his
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: unconscious bias. He did not have an intent to hurt.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I don't believe. I do not believe that Chris Harrison
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: had malice in his heart. Yet this is one of
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the challenges that we face when we deal with where
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: we are today, and when we talk about white people
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: talking about, you know, race. One of the things I
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: consistently but up against is especially when someone you know
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: is used white identifies as liberal. Sometimes they're one of
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: there's some of the most difficult people to to help
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: see this issue because they kind of come from and say,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: oh no, I'm not like those people. I'm not racist,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not prejudiced. I'm for everybody. But as
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: a man, right, I can do my best to be
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: sensitive to women's issues, but I also have to learn
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: to listen because I'm not a woman, and there are
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: some things that women go through that I don't have
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: any business speaking on. I just have to listen. And
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I think too often when it comes to race, to
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: me and my experienced white men especially feel too comfortable saying,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: oh no, if this is why we're passes, we're good
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: you you when you when we are the ones from
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: those people of color who have experienced the pain, you
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: can't tell us it's time to heal. That healing takes
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: place when it takes place. So I think Chris went
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: went wrong in my opinion when he really contextualized this
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: whole thing as the wote police and Rachel's is an
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: adult not holding her accountable. Meaning listen, if he knew
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: what he knew to say, listen, I know what I know.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: She needs to speak for herself and my my hope
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: as once he speaks for herself, it will add clarity
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: to her actions. We as the Bachelor you know nation
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Bachelor team, we are for everybody. We understand the sensitivity
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: out there. We know people are hurting by this and
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: we are getting to the bottom of it, and you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: we're making a statement soon soon. If then it ended there,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: it would have addressed what was going on. It would
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: have taken leadership. It would have showed which side the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: production and the team was really on. But I think
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: when he started to veer into his own point of
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: view about the Wow police and about oh, you know,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: disforgive ors you know, it's like she's fine, it's like no, no, no,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: no no. That's when it goes too far. And as
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: somebody who is a fan of Chris Harrison, I say
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: all of these things in love because if you know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: if we can't teach each other in moments like this,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: if we can't have civil conversations, then we can never
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: make progress. So I don't say any of these things
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: to disparage him, but I say these things to say, hey,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: here's really where it went wrong. So do you feel
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: like people who have said things like Kristen this interview
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: or gone to parties like Rachel has are they racist
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: or are they ignorant in your opinion? Well, um, listen,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I am not going to make a judgment about who
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: someone is. Uh. In a lot of ignorance, there are
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of racist things done. So I would go
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: as far as to say someone going to an Antebellum
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: party uh, in their ignorance, is committing and participating in
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: a racist event. And given the time that we are in,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: it's really hard for me to believe that someone who
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: is an adult is not aware of the history of
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the Antebellum and the history of these parties and the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: understanding that they are derogatory in nature, that does not
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: make them. This is me speaking because other black people
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and other folks may feel totally different. I don't deem
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that person a racist because I don't know that person
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and I and I resist the temptation to judge anyone
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: in their character until I don't know them, so I
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: can talk about the action. It's a racist action. It's
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: a racist event. And sometimes at ignorance definitely leads us.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: It leads, you know, in those situations to participate in
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: things that otherwise they shouldn't have participated in. So again,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know Rachel Kay at all, so I am
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: definitely not calling her racist by any stretch of the imagination. However,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: in her ignorance, she absolutely participated in a racist event.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: So for you personally, um, because you can speak on
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: this and actually I cannot. But you see this event, right,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and uh, and I I was unfamiliar with this these
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: kind of events until recently. Uh, they became a more
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: apparent to me that it is. Uh. And I think
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Chris really didn't hit this well, but I think he
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: was trying to was like, these these are not an
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: uncommon party and and at Southern universities. These are not
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: things like I should have known that these parties existed. Uh,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And I think universities are now stepping in and stopping them.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: But these have been going on for a long time
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and they're and they're not okay. Um. But a lot
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: of people participated in them, maybe not knowing the significance
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: or the meaning to them. So now we have the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Rachel k scenario, we have these pictures coming out. She's
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: not responded well. Now that we've brought up Rachel's apology,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I do want to read um what we think is
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: some of the most important bullet points, not the entire apology.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: If you do want to read her entire apology, you
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: can see it on her Instagram. She says, I was ignorant,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: but my ignorance was racist. I am sorry to the
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: communities and individuals and my actions harmed and offended. I'm
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: ashamed about my lack of education, but it is no
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: one's responsibility to educate me. She says she will continue
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: to learn how to be anti racist, and that it
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: is important to speak up in the moment and not
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: after you're called out. I deserve to be held accountable.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: She says for her actions, I will never grow unless
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I recognize eyes what I have done is wrong. I
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: don't think one apology means that I deserve your forgiveness,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: but rather I hope that I can earn your forgiveness
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: through my future actions. What is the appropriate response back
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to her, as she's I'm imagining and we're putting words
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: in her mouth. But just from her statement that we read,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she was scared hurting learning a ton um uh, confused?
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know all those things that you imagine
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: that you get when when chaos is around you and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: you're like learning a bunch at one time and everything
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: the world's kind of falling down around you. What then,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: is the response to her, as she admits, or at
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: least as far as we know, have said, Hey, I'm
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: taking this opportunity to learn and understand just how painful
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the decisions I made in my past are. And where
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: do we go with with her in mind? And so
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: when you say, what is the response? I tell me
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: for the response from who you know? Like what if
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: you say, what is the response? Like you know, how
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: how should the comment be handled? Like? Give me some more? Yeah?
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: So I mean I think when I say that, I'm
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: meaning right now, it's loud. On social media especially, it's
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: very loud, and I would imagine that's coming from people
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: of all different races. Um. But I think when it
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: comes to uh, people of color, you you can speak
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: to the response to appropriate. There's a response maybe you
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: want to see or that you feel would be most
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: healthful and helpful. That would be I think the right.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: But see here's but here's the truth again. How much
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: background checks that you've got to go through before you
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: get on the show. Yeah plenty. Yeah, Okay, okay, okay.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: So so if she if she again, let's just spoke
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: to this for a minute, if she saw, Oh, Matt James,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna he looks great. I want to you know,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he could be my husband. I'm gonna I'm gonna go
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and apply for the Bachelor. I'm gonna go through the process.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: They're gonna go through my whole background. They're gonna come,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: they come back to me and say, you are clear,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: we welcome to the show. We want to have you.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: So she's like, great, you know what whatever she whatever
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: men she may have made personally for those things, we
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: don't know, right because the show wasn't really asking that
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: she went through the process. So here's the here's the
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: crazy part. So if she went through the background check,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: and she went through everything, and then now as a
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: part of the show, these things come out, let's just
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: pause for a minute. Again. This is why I go
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: back to when we talk about the Chris Harrison and
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: we talk about the show. There has to be a
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: greater sensitivity to these things when these things are checked out.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Because if I'm Rachel, like I think your response to
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Rachel is thank you, you know, glad for your sensitivity
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and and and for me, it's like she just has
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: to continue with the show, letting that decide at the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: end of the day if he if she is the
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: right bit for him or not, and if he feels
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: good about her her apology or not. But where the
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: show failed was let it get this are Why was
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: this not caught in the background check? And if it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: was caught, why was a blind I turned That's where
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: it starts, because if you for her, I'm just again
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not excusing her actions. She needs to be held accountable.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I'm so I thought her statement felt very heartfelt. And
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: here's what I know. She will continue to do this
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: work for the rest of her life. And she seems
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: very serious about that. And when I say do this work,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: meaning like, okay, you know what, I'm not going to
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: be the person that contributes to racist activity. I do
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: want to be the person that is positive and that
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: does bring people together and that learns and listens. She
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: seemingly from that statement, seems like that's who she wants
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: to be. And no matter what, now that this show
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: is going to live with her for the rest of
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: her life, She's gonna be forced to deal with race,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: no matter if she likes it or not, to some degree,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: for the rest of her life. So that's what's gonna
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: happen with her. But why did it get here? The
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: fact that God here is not her fault. That's the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: art that I think we have to look at and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: what I would I think when we talk about what's
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: happening online, it's very easy again to tear somebody down,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to tear her down. It's easy
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: to tear Chris down. I understand that. But neither of
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: them operate in a vacuum. And so when we talk
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: about what's happening inside of this universe called the Bachelor,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: there's a larger thing that needs to be addressed on
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: how do we deal with these issues once and for all?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: And again, I don't know anybody involved with the show.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: I had a couple of meetings with Rob Mills, you know,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: just on the general you know, two years ago. He's
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: cool dude. I think he's a great guy. Again, I
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: don't know him personally. We you know, we had a
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: we had a great meeting. So I don't really know
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: how it all works, as my point, but these are
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the things that need to be talked about. So the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: response to me to Rachel is thank you for your statement,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: and let's see how you fare on the rest of
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the show. The response to me to the Bachelor operation
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: is hold up, something has got to be done. You
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: cannot take this and sweep this under the rug. What
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: is going on? Why does there seem to be an insensitivity?
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Why do you know even with Matt James, when Matt
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: James is telling again this is just my two sense.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I don't even know who listens how, you don't know
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: if I'm been getting trouble in it is what I'm saying.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: What you guys caught me here to say, which is
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: even when when Matt James sits down with Chris at
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the season and he's talking about how
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: difficult it is, you know, to be a as a
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: black man. Why couldn't the back to get somebody black
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: to they say, Yo, Bro, let's okay, Bro, You're gonna
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: be all right. It's not the same, And so I
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: don't disparage Chris, but it's like that moment, I'm like, Yo,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: there's there's some there's a disconnect. You can't just put
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: somebody of color in the situation and plug in play
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: and think it's just gonna be the same situation. It's not.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that there's different rules, but there's a
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: different nuance that in terms of how things are experienced
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and how people feel right, and I just feel like
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the show doesn't consistently deal with that. So the response
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: to Rachel is, thank you for your statement. Let's see
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: where the season ends up. It's ultimately up to Matt
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: and it's his choice to make. The response to the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: show is we gotta have a conversation as a fan,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: as somebody who's watched Rachel have one of the stronger
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: connections this season, and now that she's acknowledged her past mistakes,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: and I like, you feel like it was it was
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: it was a good apology, you know, I felt like
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: she had true remorse and awareness. Um. And I really
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: do think that she wants to change for the better.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: But now I'm conflicted as far as like, as a fan,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: do I root for this coupling? Can you help me
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: work there? This failing? I have listen, listen, listen again.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: It's so hard without really getting in depth for her story.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: You know, like she knew Matt. I mean, I mean
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: she went on the show. I mean you know she again,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know or she doesn't seem to be chased
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: a cloud, you know, cloud chaser or something like that,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Like she seems to be genuinely interested. I agree with you.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: You know, her date, the whole Cinderella date was like amazing.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Their connection seemed incredible. She doesn't seem like she's playing
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: for the cameras. In my opinion, she seems very genuine
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: about the whole thing. So, you know, I think that
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: as a fan. Um, I think the prayer is from
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Matt's heart, you know that that Matt. Maybe we want
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Matt to make the right decision. It seems based upon
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Matt having the interview he did that I'm assuming he's
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: been brought up to speed or again, I don't know
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: in terms of how production works and what we see
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: and how many more episodes, I don't know all that.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: But I would just still root for for love to win.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's not let this moment make a cynical
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: about love. Love works, love wins, and love will find
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: a way even in a situation like this. And I
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: do believe that if if Rachel and Matt are meant
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: to be to get of it, then love is going
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: to see them through this. And and so I do
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: think that if if that is, if you you know
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: your your couple, root form, root form, and love, you know,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: pray that there that that is that a is hard,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: is open, and her heart is open, and that maybe
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: this is the thing, this experience is what she needed
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: to then become the spokesperson to other white men and
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: women on hey, we can't do this, this is not
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: how we go about this. And maybe there's a major
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: blessing that's gonna come out of all of this. But
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: in terms of rooting, I would still root for them.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I still would, you know, pray for them and let's
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: see if the problem where the process takes uh you know,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: where love takes us at the end of the day,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: vandi a few minutes to stick with us. I think
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: this conversation is one that you know, there's a few
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: things that you said that I really want to get
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: your I've got as much time as you need. Uh, well,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: thank you for that. Uh you you said the word accountability.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Accountability has been uh but obviously thrown around a lot.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I think it was used when you know, Chris announced
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: that he is stepping away from the show. He's gonna
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: be held accountable. I think, uh, you know, as I
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: looked online, a lot of the words that were being
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: used to Rachel and to Chris where we need to
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: hold them accountable. Uh. I would love to get your
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: idea of healthy helpful maybe would be the better uh
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: or to use in front of that accountability, like how
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: do we um if we're sitting there and Rachel really
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: does say I want to be a spokesperson. I want
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: to teach people my lessons learned and speak out of that.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: And maybe you know I talked to Chris last night.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: I know he is in the process right now. Of
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: consuming a lot, learning a lot. He's very humbled, I
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: mean like humbled and not like, oh I'm such a
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: humble man. Like he's just like feeling the weight of this, right,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and he's very open to like hearing from from really
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: uh knowledgeable sources on how to get better. Uh. So,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: with those things in mind, if that's where we're coming from,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: how do we give helpful accountability? Right? Okay? Good? So?
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: So I think that helpful accountability is different for for
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Chris and for racial So let's deal with Chris first.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: So I think with with Chris, it really goes back to,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: you know, that accountability, which is really helpful is to
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: hold them, hold them accountable being honest, like, bro, we
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: love you and you missed it. We love you and
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you heard us, and and here's why you heard us.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: You know, when I go back and I think about
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: that interview, um, I think all of us have have
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: strong feelings about about cancel culture, right, and how cancel
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: culture just moves so quickly, and I think we all
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: feel like, wait, wait a minute, hold on, I think,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: but but the problem was looking at things through a
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: white lens prevented him to see that it wasn't just
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: about cancel culture. It was like, oh no, there's a
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: really serious issue of racism and prejudice that goes really deep.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: So let me not a how that that my lens
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: of you know, of of unconscious bias to not allow
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: me to see what's really going on. So one of
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: the keys to healthy accountability is unconscious bias training. Can
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: you elaborate on that a little bit? Yes, So they're
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: there there. You know, when you go through unconscious bias training,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: it's a real process. You know, that is many times
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's hours long where you sit with the professional
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: and you they walk you through, you know, scenarios and situations.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: You know, where you understand you begin to learn like,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: oh god it I didn't know when I said that
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: that was actually presidented you know, Oh I didn't realize
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: that was an area of sensitivity. Oh my goodness, Wow,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that I had a blind spot. So
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: unconscious biased training I think is critical, UM, in this
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: in this day and age for anyone endeavoring to navigate
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: race racial issues successfully. And so I think healthy and
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: helpful accountability for Chris Harrison would be absolutely in aging
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: and unconscious biased training. UM. And and you know if
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I if I was a part of the process or
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: we could recommend to them, I said, yeah, he should
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: put his process should not just be something that he
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: generates like it should be Yeah, he's gonna do his work,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: but there should also be some professional work that is
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: put in place to really help ensure that this type
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: of thing never happens again. So that's part of it.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: The other part of it is, you know, Chris is
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: like family, right, so when when we're family, we can
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: be honest with each other. We could say, hey, this
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: didn't feel good. You know, it doesn't mean we don't
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: love him any any less. It's just like you know, again,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I don't love him any less. I know there's people,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: you know, saying all these other things I'm saying as
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: a fan of the Aastornation, I support Chris Harrison. I
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: love Chris Harrison from what I know. But I also know, like, bro,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: there's a real big opportunity for you to learn and
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: come through this much stronger, much better than the way
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: you went in and then and the thing to not
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: do a in it just just be dismissive and callous
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: about people's pain and situations that you are not well
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: versed on. And here's the other thing. Rachel's a grown woman.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: You don't have to speak for her. You don't have
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: And this is where we as men get in trouble.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: We think we've gotta be speaking for everybody. Know, let
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: people speak to himselves. He didn't need to be. And
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's where one of these where he went wrong.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: He started speaking for her. He didn't need to speak
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: for her. Let her speak for him, let her speak
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: for herself. Unlet's see what's gonna happen in terms of
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: healthy accountability for Rachel. It's a tougher assessment because unlike
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Chris Harrison, Rachel, I mean, unlike you know, unlike Chris Harrison,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Rachel has not gone on camera, She has not been
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: asked questions. We don't really know, you know, her feeling
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: and what led her here. Clearly those things happened years ago.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Clearly she knew the blacker the bachelor was gonna be black,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: and clearly she went ahead and and and and you know,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: applied anyway, and clearly seems to be falling in love
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: with the black man. So you know, without hearing from
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: her her opinion on all of that, it's really hard
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: to make an assessment on what that healthy accountability will be.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Do I believe that everyone should get a chance to
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: make amends for their past. Do I think you should
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: always hold up a mirror to someone's past. Um? Not
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: in all situations, but in this situation with Rachel, it's
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: really hard to know what accountability is gonna look like
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: without hearing more from her. What about accountability when it
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: comes to Chris? There's so many people calling for his jobs,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: saying that in order to take full accountability, he needs
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: to permanently step down. How do you feel about that? Yeah,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: and I listen, I may again, I'm not sure you
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: know what the majority of minority is. Um. In terms
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: of social sentiment, I'm listening to the loud social media right.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: You know I am not in favor of that. You know,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: I think that, come on, think that Chris Harrison has
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: put his heart and soul into this franchise. Uh. You know,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: I think that these moments are moments when you know
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: you make a mistake, uh, and hopefully you learn from
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: it and and then you become better for it. And
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: not only do you become better, but the franchise becomes better. Uh.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: So I my hope and prayer is that this is
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: a massive teaching moment um. But I do not share
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: the sentiment that because of what he said and how
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: he said it, that that should be um that he
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: is fired now again. I know, you know, some people
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: feel differently about that, and I get that, but I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: think that there's too much potential good that can come
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: from this for Chris, for the Bachelor, for the network,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: and for all of the millions of fans. To me,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: there's too much potential good to to allow him to
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: be fired over this. I would much rather this be
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: a teaching moment where he really understands the error of
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: his ways, he makes the men ends, and he does
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: his work from now until and as a result, everyone
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: else in the franchise, the franchise becomes different. You know,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: in moments like this, sometimes are the very best teachers,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: because otherwise the franchise may have just kept rolling, rolling, rolling,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: still doing the stuff that isn't really for all people.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: But the potential good that can come out of this
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: is much greater to me than letting him lose his
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: job over As a friend of Chris's, I love your
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: take on that. That is my hope for the franchise
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: as well, but we can't. Okay. So with all that
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: being said, and even though yeah, you know, and I
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: don't think it's a secret. Like Chris is a friend
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: of mine, Like I talked to him last night, right,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I want to be there through it. I don't think
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: what he said and how he said it was good.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: I think it was harmful. Um, I told him that
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: he knows that that's how we feel it, so he
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: now knows that's how a lot of people feel. But
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: with that being now in mind and what you just
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: said also, um, how do we still then? Okay? And
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be phrase weird? My my questions. I
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: in my life, I've I've learned a lot from pain,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: and I've learned a lot from failure, and I've learned
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: a lot from messing up. I haven't learned that much
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: through times of success. It's just maybe an error in
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: my ways. Usually in success, I just celebrate and I
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: just keep rolling right. Well, the show is now hitting
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: a point where it feels like there's a lot of
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: pain and there is some massive apparent failures. So as
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: fans of the show, how do we sit back and
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: still celebrate? Now? This maybe the slower progress. Actually the
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: quicker progression, then maybe it would have been if they
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: just would have kept rolling with it. How do we
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: recognize it, celebrate it, get behind it, help could help
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: push it forward, help keep pushing Chris Ford, because right
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: now it feels like and again I said, like the
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: world of the Bachelor is falling down, like it feels
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: very quick that the show could just be gone next year,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: which I do believe, and I'm not the one to
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: say it, but like it would be a mistake because
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot of learning that can
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: be done, um from the millions that watched the show.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: So how do we how do we walk in that balance?
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I guess you you've gotta walk in in the balance
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: through um let me let me separate it, right, because
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: there's a there's the fan, how do we walk in
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the balance, and then there's the production in the show
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: and the network and how do they walk in the balance?
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: What we ultimately can will receive has so much to
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: do with what they do or don't do. So I
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: would say to anyone who's in bassind nation, first and foremost,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: you have these you know, um uh contestants on this
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: show right now, who literally are bearing their heart and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: soul to the world looking for love. So so still
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: route that love is going to find a way with
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: those who are on the show right now. So let's
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: just make sure we're not throwing the baby out of
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: the bath water. Let's let's say, Okay, the show is happening.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: They're they're just in it, right, They're innocent bystandards. All
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: this is happening around them. Listen, we gotta hope they
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: find left. Let's put that to the side. As fans,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I think we have both hopes. We can hope that
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: the show endures, and we hope that the show gets better,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: and we hope that that that that Chris and the
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: network do their work in order to fix this show
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: so that we all can get behind it and stay
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: behind it with a clear conscience. But as fans, I
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: think the most powerful thing we have is our voice,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: and so what you're hearing are a lot of voices
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: that need to be listened to. It doesn't mean that, oh,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: the voices that are calling for Chriss, you know, firing
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: that Okay, wow, we have such a sentiment we're just
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: gonna go by what they say. No, I think what's
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: the undercurrent is a lot of frustration built up over years.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: So it's all this frustration that's now now there's a
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: because guess what, the Bachelor as a as an entity,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: as a morphous outside of Chris Harrison. So the moment
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: that Chris does this, first of all, he's always been
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: the face of the Bachelor, but now he becomes the
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: face of the antagonism because oh wow, now we have
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: someone to direct our anger to. But really we're angry
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: that we don't always feel seen and heard by this
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: show that we love so much. So where do we go?
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: I think we go to a place of letting cooler
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: heads prevail. I think the network the show has to
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: do their work and they have to earn the respect
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: of those fans that are really upset right now, and
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: they should not just turned a blind eye and say, oh,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: that's a there's a friends group of people, know, so
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: you know what, there's a lot of people upset about
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: there out there. But what the wrong move is to
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: me is to fire Chris and then say, okay, we
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: let Chris go. You know now we fixed our problem.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: No you haven't, because any other hopes that's going to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: come into the same system is going to be subject
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: to the same system. I think that for Bachelor Nation,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: this is a moment of powerful reckoning if everyone chooses
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: to see it that way. But so much of this
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: responsibility falls on the shoulders of the network and the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: producers of the show to to really look at this
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: as a teachable moment and learn the lesson and do
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: the best they can to make the show better because
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: of it. As you speak, it's um, it's just like
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: it's it's reminding me of over the last few years. Right,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: my fiance grew up in the South. Um. She talked
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: about it on her Instagram, but you know, there's a
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: lot of traditions in the South that you know. I
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: think she went to Old Miss up until a couple
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: of years ago. Dixie was still their fight song, right
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: like her one of her best friends from college. I
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: was with her this weekend and she's black and she
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: was talking to us. She's like, can you believe that
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I went out there with pom poms and cheered to
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: the song Dixie for years, four years of my college experience,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: and that was so let's look at the old Miss,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: you know, in the comparison of like Old Miss Ish
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor world, and like, so it's always interesting actually
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: talk about lot how these scenarios within the Bachelor can
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: transcend into our regular life, Like we can take examples
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that are happening on the show and move them into
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: our experiences off this show. And I'm listening to what
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: you're saying right now, and what I'm I'm what I'm
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: hearing is and what I'm feeling is this, Like, now
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: it's time for me to do better, It's time for
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Ashley to do better, It's time for all of us
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: to do better. And say, this is a teachable moment
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: for us all to not just push it on the
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: rug and say, Okay, I'm gonna delete this picture because hey,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: in college, you know, uh, in college I dressed up
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: as something. No, this is a moment to say, I'm
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna own this, understand the pain that was
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: caused in this, learn from it, grow from it, and
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: now become an advocate because at least the people I
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: want to associate with my life and are people that
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: don't want to cause more pain to this world is
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: already enough. We want to be people that try to
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: help and not hurt. And so now it's like, Okay,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: these things hurt, these things are painful, and tell me
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here. But I'm just trying to, like
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: here what you're saying, so that I'm taking this out
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: into the world and for the fans of the show
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: can take this out in the world and say, now
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: it's time for us. All that we've we've we've seen
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: the example of it, it's now time for us to
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: get better. It's it's been time for us to get better.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe we've tried to get better, but like this is
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: another reminder of continuing to do the work so less
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: pain has caused. Yeah, no, Ben, I think what you're
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: saying is is true, and I think that um it
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: is commendable because you're You're absolutely right, Like it's about
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: doing that work. It's about saying, okay, yeah, how can
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: I you know, as a white man or a white woman,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: how can I take this and say, Okay, you know,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: what can I learn from it? How can I become better?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's something I didn't know, but there's something I've
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: done in my path. Maybe are things I've said, Maybe
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: there's people I've associated with that instead of being ashamed
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: only about those things, saying all right, you know what,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: I want to be a part of the change that
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I want to see in this world. So I'm going
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: to contribute to that. And I do think that in Bachelor,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: you know nation, it's similar to our nation, you know,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: where some you know, some some people are so upset
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: that this is even a conversation. Some people are just mad,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: you know that, Oh, this is just you know, we
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: should just you know, ignore that. And and we gotta say,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Chris and all these different things. Here's the reality in
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: any family, you know, you gotta love everybody, and you've
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: got to hear everybody's point of view. And I think
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: that in a moment like this when you talk about
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: you know, both you and Ashley you know, have been
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: a big part of this this franchise and still continue
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: to be and so many others. I do think that it's, uh,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: it's a moment of reckoning. You know, it's a moment
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: of reckoning. Um. But I want to be I want
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: to be I want to be very um clear about something.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: It's not a moment of guilt. And here's what I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: mean by that. As a white person, you can feel
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: badly about things you've said or done, as as a
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: black person. I don't want your guilt about those things. No,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: what is meeting? No? No No, no, Just tell what you're
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: gonna do about it. Acknowledge it, say hey, I'm not
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: gonna run from it, not sweeping on the rug. I
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: did it. Here's what I'm doing about it. Cool. So
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I think that in this moment, you know, it's like
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: this idea, you know that that that Oh my goodness.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: You know if I'm white, you know, can I talk
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: about race and I'm not talking about race? Of course
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: you can talk about race. What if you don't know
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: what to say, that's okay. It's better to say I
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: don't know exactly what to say here, but here's what
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to are. It's better to say something that
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: to say nothing. And it's better to engage in uncomfortable
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: conversations around race and get to a comfortable place than
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: to never have it at all. So that is a
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: perfect transition into counter into cancel culture, because we need
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: to talk more, you know, UM, in order to get better, UM,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: in order to educate ourselves. We need to have these conversations.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: But I think what's so scary for us is that
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: it seems like we live in such a heated, devisive
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: world where if you make a mistake and it's not
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: out of malice, it's out of true ignorance, or you
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: just simply didn't word something right like, you're at risk
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: of getting canceled. And I just think that cancel culture
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: and progress in this are just at each other, like
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: they just butt heads so much. What do we do
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: about it? Yeah? You know this is this is very
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: very true. Um, you know, there is this the cancel
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: culture that's ready, like literally ready to go to work
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: if there's anything out of line that anyone says at
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: any time, depending on what your situation is. I think
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: that because of that, when it comes to race and
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: talking about race again, I go back to what we
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: talked about Chris Harrison already understanding the power of cancel
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: cross culture either doing one of two things, saying I
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: need to get go, I need to go get educated
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: on these issues before I speak, or saying you know what,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know enough yet, you know and and and
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: and then also framing into a question, you know, what
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: would be the right response for a white woman in
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: this situation? What would be the right response for a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: white man? What is okay to say and not okay
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: to say, Like framing it into a question that then
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: you get feedback on helps prepare you to know what
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to say. It is, it is okay to say I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: actually don't know what to say. I'm not entirely sure,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: but I do want to say something. You know, so
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: here's my heart. How do I say it will be
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: the best way to do to it. That's how I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: think how you would do it, so that that way
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: you are engaging in the culture, You're letting the culture
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: know your heart. Hey, I'm not here to harm. I'm
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: not here to to provoke the same pain, but I
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: need some instruction, you know, and there and listen, there's
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: so much out there. I mean, there's there's so many books,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: there's so much knowledge you know, around race and race relations,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: especially in excuse me, um, that that if you really
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: anyone who really wants to know more about these issues
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: can get me come up to speed very quickly on
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: what is and what isn't. But when it comes to
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: cancel culture, especially when it comes to social media, I
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: would absolutely advise caution, you know, um, don't go out
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: there and speak about something that you are not educated
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: on and that you have not checked with, you know,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about race. You know, please check
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: with some of your friends of color to say, hey,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this is what I want to say.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Let them poke some whole was in it before you
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: publicly say it. The it's obvious talking to your day
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: and I was doing a little prep for this. But
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: you have a very high value value on humans. I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: can tell you you you really um, people really matter
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: to you? Absolutely well? Why because man, But but for
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the grace of God there go why man? We're all
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: God's children, period, And the Bible says love your neighbor
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: as yourself. I do not get an excuse not to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: love somebody even if I can't stand their actions. And
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: also judge not less you be judged. We all come
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: short of the glory of God. We all are in
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: need of redemption. I don't say those words to pacify
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: someone who's done things that need accountability. I'm not ain't that.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: But I also in in terms of this whole cancel culture,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I don't want to participate in that. I'm not into
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: canceling people because people matter. You know. We talked about
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Rachel again. I don't know where she needs to be
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: held to count on all that. But again, knowing what
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: it's like when you're dealing with Hollywood and and you
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: know the spotlight for the first time in your life.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: This is the most terrifying thing that she's probably ever
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: gone through in her life. That doesn't make it right
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: what she did. But I'm just saying, like we're just
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: gonna all of a sudden just crucify her and then say,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: all right, her body is laying by the side of
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: the road, and all right, we canna keep on moving.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: I can't participate in that. That's not who I am.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: That's not what I want to be about. I'm like, yo,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: let's talk about it. What you did was wrong. I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: think you know, here's where you went wrong. Let's see
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: how we can fix it. You know. Let's like I'm
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: more about that because we all need it, man, we
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: all need it. We all need it. There are times
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: and situations where we all need redemption. We all have
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: made mistakes that we are completely terrified about, that we
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: were remorseful of, and we need a shot to get
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: it right. And I just believe in that. I believe
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: in that deeply. Now. I believe that we should give
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: people a shot to get it right. Um, And my
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: hope is that if they get that shot, but they
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: would do something positive with another thing. I want to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: say real quickly, Venu, It's just something earlier in your
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: question I wanted to address when we're talking about pain
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and accountability and you know Chris uh and if and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: it kind of the implication was like, well, if he
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't lose his job, is he gonna be really experiencing
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: the pain from the whole experience from what from what
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: I can glean, this is the most painful experience he's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: probably ever been the professionally, because he seems to be
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: someone who completely uh cares and wants that to be experienced,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: and on the show in a moment like this where
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: he said something which you know was was has been
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: taken the way that it's taken, and also him realized thinking,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: oh man, I I misspoken. I shouldn't have said those things.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's experiencing devastating pain at this moment. So
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think that the barometer for the pain he
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: should experience is losing his job. I think that he's
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: already going through the pain. And my hope is that
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: again with this pain will produce something positive for himself
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: with the show, but the network and most importantly the fans,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: because this show, you all know, this show man, this
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: franchise represents hope to people. It reminds people that, you know,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: love can work and love will win. And so if
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: we as the Bachelor nation don't don't practice that love,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: we then we really really aren't part of the nation. Right.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: It's like, now we've got to be a part of
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: like loving people back to where we want them to be,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: even if it's painful. Ben, did you get a little
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: emotional there, because I certainly did. I was like, I
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: have a lump in my throat. You're a beautiful person, divine,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: thank you for just everything. I have no response to
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: you because like what you say is just and heavenly
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, and it's not and and and it's
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: not just you know because it's good. Right. Uh, it's
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: not just because it sounds nice. It's not just because
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: you know and and no secret to this is like
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: we said many times here, three times I think I've
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: said it's like Chris is a friend and he's he's family,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: he's been I mean, this show has been really good
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: to us and it's been good to many people. Um,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: I would never be talking to you today. Uh if
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for this show. And and I and I
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: need to recognize that. Um and so it's a shocking moment.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: It's it's a weird moment. Uh, as as a friend,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: we need to say, Chris, I'm not okay with this, UM,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: but I'm learning too along the way. Like there's things
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: you said in there, but like I didn't pick up
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: on right away, I hear the response. We all need
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: to get better from it. We all need to learn
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: from it. Um. Davon, thank you for coming on here,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: thank you for for taking the time. Uh. It means
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: a ton to us. I think it means it will
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: mean a ton to the listeners out there. UM. And
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: and you said some I just wanna sticks with me
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna take here. Uh what is that.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of work to be done, um, but
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: we can't give up hope. We can't and um and
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: so I'm just that's that's my that's my big note
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: coming out of this is there's a lot of work
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: to be done, a lot of conversations we have, but
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: we can't give up hope and and thank you for
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: for for reminding me of that and sharing that with us. Um,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: it's a big deal for us, my pleasure. Thank you
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: for having me and uh, you know we gotta keep
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: over live. You know, we got oh, we got nothing.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I know we can get through this. Uh.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: It's painful, a lot of work to do, but it's
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: totally there to do if the powers that be choose
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: to do it. Listening to you today is truly enriching
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: my life. So thank you very much. Oh Ashley, thank
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you. Well, we can't in this
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: podcast classically, we can't in this podcast in any way
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: that we don't usually in this podcast, the Von Uh,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: if you can just follow our lead. Uh, if you
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: don't get it right, Uh, it's okay. But hey, this
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: has been a podcast with Von Franklin covering the situation
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: that happened last week. Uh and the comments made by
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Chris Harrison in the interview with Rachel Lindsay. Uh, we
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: hope this podcast is helpful. We hope you listen. We'll
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: be back to break down um the episode. Uh, you know,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: because that's kind of what this podcast is. Uh. Without
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: neglecting and negating the importance of what's happening now and
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: not pushing it aside, but consistently reminding us um that
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: this work to be done, this hope to be had.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: In the words of Devon Franklin, what with that, I've
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: been Been, I've been Ashley. Follow the Benn and Ashley
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart Radio or subscribe wherever
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts.