Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Chris Jenkins Pt. One

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Chris Jenkins Pt. One · The Path Went Chilly

0:30
Welcome back to the Pathway Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm
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Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. October thirty first, two
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thousand and two. Minneapolis, Minnesota, twenty one year old university student Chris
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Jenkins celebrates Halloween by going to a local bar with friends. After he is
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ejected from the establishment, Chris vanishes without a trace, and his body is
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found in the Mississippi River four months later. While police initially believe that Chris's
1:03
death was an accidental drowning, his family uncovers disturbing evidence to suggest that he
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was a victim of foul play. The police chief eventually reclassifies the death as
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a homicide and issues an apology to the Jenkins family, but the exact circumstances
1:19
of how Chris died remain unknown. After that, the path went chilly,
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So since we're nearing the end of October, we thought now would be a
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good time to cover a tragic cold case which happened to take place on Halloween.
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The unexplained two thousand and two death of Chris Jenkins. Chris was a
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student from the University of Minnesota who decided to go up partying on Halloween night,
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but after he was kicked out of a downtown bar under very questionable circumstances,
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he never returned home and would remain a missing person until he was found
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dead in the Mississippi River four months later. At first, the authorities were
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contend to write off Chris's death as a tragic alcohol fueled accident or even a
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suicide, but his family disagreed. Of course, you'll find a number of
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stories out there just like this one where a deceased individual's family with dispute law
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enforcements official ruling and maintain that their loved one was a victim of foul play.
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However, this is one of those rare cases where law enforcement eventually changed
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their mind and came to believe that the victim's death might have really been a
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homicide. After all, Chris's case is still officially unsolved, and there has
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been speculation that his death might be connected to a phenomenon known as the smiley
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faced murder theory, but you'll hear our thoughts on that a little later.
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As it is, this is a very odd case in which it's incredibly difficult
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to come up with a concrete theory which makes one hundred percent complete sense.
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Well, I'm really excited to hear more about this case because, like you
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said, typically we hear where families are advocating for police and medical examiners to
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take a look at their case and say, this is not a suicide,
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this was not an accident, and what ninety percent of the time they're shut
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down because a ruling is a ruling. There's a reason they came to that
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conclusion, and many people are not willing to take a second look. But
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in this case, they actually changed the ruling to homicide, which is a
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really big deal. I'm looking forward to understanding how they came to the original
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accident slash suicide ruling. I'm assuming possibly being under the influence and stumbling off
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of some hill cliff something, or even jumping from a location would be their
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explanation. But and then how they ended up changing that as well. So
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this smiley faced murder theory, I'm already incredibly intrigued and I can't wait to
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hear more. Our story begins in Minneapolis in two thousand and two. Our
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central figure is twenty one year old Chris Jenkins, who was originally born in
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Eden, Prairie and is entering his senior year as a student at the University
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of Minnesota. Chris is an honor student with a three point seven grade point
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average at the university's Carlston School of Management, and is also a goalie and
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co captain on the lacrosse team. He's currently living with roommates in a rented
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house in the Dinkytown district and is preparing to graduate in the spring. On
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Halloween Night, a cag party took place at Chris's residence, and he dressed
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up in the costume of a Native American. At around ten thirty pm,
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Chris, his girlfriend, Ashley Rice, and three of their friends left the
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party and went to the Lone Tree Bar and Grill, located at five twenty
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eight Hennepin Avenue in downtown Minneapolis. Ashley was an employee at the bar,
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though she was not scheduled to work that night. Since Chris's costume did not
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have pockets, he asked Ashley to hold his wallet, cell phone, and
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keys for him inside her purse. Shortly after midnight on November first, Chris
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was ejected from the bar. Though the actual circumstances of how this took place
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have always been up for debate. The most commonly shared story is that a
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drink was accident spilled on Chris's pants, and when the security supervisor noticed this,
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he assumed that Chris had become so intoxicated that he urinated himself. Chris
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was promptly removed from the bar, and the bouncers standing by the front door
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reportedly received a radio communication to quote not let the white guy dressed up as
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an Indian back inside end quote. By this point, Chris had become separated
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from his friends in the bar and could not inform them about what happened,
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and unfortunately, his wallet, keys, and cell phone were still inside Ashley's
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purse. Not only that, but Chris's coat was left behind and he was
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not allowed to retrieve it, so he was now trapped outside in cold twenty
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degree temperatures wearing nothing but his Halloween costume. Since he had been driven there
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by one of his friends, Chris also had no ride home. He walked
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away from the bar and was last seen heading north, but unfortunately, this
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would turn out to be the last time he was confirmed to be alive.
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It seems very questionable about what would cause them to not allow part of his
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party to go out with him, especially if he was highly intoxicated, Like
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you would think you wouldn't dump somebody outside. You'd figure out who he's with
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and get them outside and say, hey, your friend's causing a problem,
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you need to go. But here it seems like they were pretty negligent of
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saying, like, listen, this kid's drunk, I'm putting him outside,
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doesn't have a jacket, it's freezing, and clearly they believe he's incredibly under
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the influence. So it almost feels like they didn't try to protect him whatsoever.
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I get he was assumed to be a nuisance there, but why not
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allow his party to be reconnected with him and all of them leave. Yeah,
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Like, even if his death legitimately was an accident, it's pretty much
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a given that this was negligent behavior in the bar, just ejecting him and
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not letting him contact his friends and retrieve all his personal items in his coat
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and putting him outside in these cold weathers. And we're going to talk about
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this later on, But there was someone else in the bar who may have
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had an ulterior motive to ensure that christ was removed, and that might be
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the reason that happened, But it just seems ridiculous that they see someone spill
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a drink on his pants and just automatically assume that he urinated himself without even
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asking for his side of the story. I mean, from what I can
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tell, he was not causing a disturbance. He did not look drunk,
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so it just seems really irresponsible to just kick him out like that. It's
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almost worse if he is so intoxicated that he did urinate on himself. This
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is somebody who isn't If that was the case, and I'm not saying that
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it was, he wouldn't be cognizant enough to be able to phone somebody to
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come and pick him up. You would almost ensure in those temperatures that he
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would potentially freeze to death. And I'm just assuming that these bouncers were twenty
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something guys, because there isn't any nurturing energy in the bunch here. Just
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at least let the guy get his coat or let him retrieve his cell phone
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in his keys. It just seems like such a cruel action to take,
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even if he was so intoxicated, because lots of people get intoxicated, but
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you're putting him in the path of harm here. When Chris's friends could not
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find him inside the bar, they just assumed he went home on his own.
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Later that morning, Ashley visited Chris's house to return the items, which
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he'd kept inside her purse, but he wasn't there, and since there was
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no sign of his Native American costume, this seemed to indicate that he never
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returned at all. Words soon reached Chris's parents, Steve and jan Jenkins,
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along with his older sister Sarah, that he could not be found. The
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Jenkins family traveled to Minneapolis and attempted to report him missing, but the Minneapolis
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Police Department said they could not officially launch a search for him until he was
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missing for seventy two hours. One officer even tried to tell them that Chris
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had probably gone off on a road trip somewhere and was quote unquote sowing his
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oats. Of course, the Jenkins has found this idea to be ludicrous,
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since all of his important possessions were left behind at the bar and he had
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nothing on him at the time, and if Chris had gone to spend the
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night somewhere, he likely would have called contacted somebody, but none of his
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friends knew where he was even after the mandatory seventy two hour waiting period ended,
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it would still be a few more days before the Minneapolis PD took any
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action on Chris's case. The Jenkins family decided to organize their own search for
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Chris, and hundreds of volunteers, many of them students from the University of
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Minnesota, attempted to look for him. This is the worst. This is
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of course, because he's over the age of eighteen. They come up with
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this idea that, look, he probably left on his own. But it's
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insane these cases we cover where the family in their gut says, no,
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this isn't like them, Like he went to this party with his friends.
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They had clear plans that evening, and he should have arrived back at his
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residence. There's no reason he shouldn't have come home. And that waiting period
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is horrifying for the family, who's saying, please listen to us, something's
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wrong. And here, of course, the police are trying to reassure them
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by saying, like he's off sewing his oats. He ran off on the
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road, and a family and the girlfriend and all are saying, no,
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you don't understand. This is ridiculous. He left everything of importance, including
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the people he was with, with no mention of leaving. He did not
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go on his own. Yeah, I'm sure the police like have to respond
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to a lot of complaints about students disappearing, and that probably a lot of
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the time it turns out they just took off on a road trip or something
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and came back safely. But in this particular case, it makes no sense
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because Chris didn't have anything but the clothes on his back, and there's just
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no way that he would take off without his cell phone or any of his
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personal items. Okay, And like you're trying to tell us that he's out
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there sewing his oats a guy that is so drunk that he urinated on himself.
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Like, I don't know. I'm sure there's some women out there that
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wouldn't take issue with that, but I would think that most who he would
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then approach with a wet crotch looking like he's peede himself, aren't going to
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be in the mood to be getting down. So I just don't understand this.
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He's out there sewing his oats with what woman, Like he has a
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girlfriend? You don't just leave a bar in that state, And that's what's
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like on your mind, and you're able to successfully achieve it without your wallet,
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without your keys, without any other clothes. None of it makes sense.
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And I find it so triggering because I told you guys about the traumatic
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experience I had when I was in my addiction, like in my mid twenties,
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and I left a bar without anything, and I didn't have my coat,
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I didn't have my wallet, I didn't have anything on me, my
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phone was dead, And what a vulnerable position that puts you in. It
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was one of those situations where luckily I ended up living through it, but
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in a situation like this, where this situation seems even worse because the temperatures
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were even lower than what I dealt with. But it was winter when I
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had my experience, too, so I can completely understand. So if I
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seem triggered at any point in time during this, you both know why.
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Oh yeah, I remember that story, and I am glad you were found
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safe before they had to get the police involved. And of course, another
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key difference is that you were dressed in a Native American costume, which is
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going to look unusual for Chris if he's wearing that the day after Halloween and
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I don't think he's going to pick up many women while he's dress like that.
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Due to a lack of interest from police, the Jenkinses hired their own
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private investigator named Chuck Losch, who went to interview employees from the Lone Tree
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Bar and Grill. The security supervisor denied the claims that Chris had been thrown
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out of the bar, while the other bouncers became very defensive and provided no
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useful information. It turned out that an off duty police officer named Mike Casey
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was present at the bar that night in order to work security at the adjacent
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Henepin Center for the Arts. Ashley Rice knew Casey and had even borrowed the
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shirt from his police uniform as part of her Halloween costume as a sexy police
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officer. When Chris arrived at the bar with Ashley, she introduced him to
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Casey. Witnesses were called Casey being verys with Ashley. That night, after
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the bar closed, the owner held an employee meeting, which was attended by
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Ashley even though she was not working at the time, and when the meeting
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ended, it was Casey who gave Ashley a ride home. Rumors circulated that
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it was Casey who asked the security supervisor to eject Chris from the bar,
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and there was gossip that he wanted Chris out of the picture so that he
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could make the moves on Ashley. Chuck Losh's inquiries into the Lone Tree Bar
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quickly hit a dead end, as the owner essentially issued a gag order for
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his employees. He instructed them to stick to the story that Chris walked out
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of the bar on his own and not to speak with the police or any
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private investigators without an attorney who represented the bar. Officer. Casey made no
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attempt to contact the Jenkins family and was never formally questioned by the Minneapolis PDE.
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According to Chris's parents, the police told them, quote, he's a
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married man with children. We don't want to break up a family. End
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quote. Okay, this is really disturbing because you have an off duty officer
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who's I'm assuming moonlighting as helping with security there. He supposedly has an attraction
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to Ashley and wants to get rid of this kid who's with her so that
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he can make the moves on her. What enrages me is that the police
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department's time the family listen he's a married man, Like, that's just not
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in his cards. Okay, that's not in his deck of tools that he
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uses to have an affair. If anyone has spent time around high stress,
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high commitment, and loyalty to other people, and you think that affairs don't
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take place in the workplace or with people that are interacting with, you're crazy.
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Almost every law enforcement agency knows that several people in their department are having
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extramarital affairs. It's something that when I work with law enforcement, it's like
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it's just such a high stress, high crazy job and you get to to
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make deals and sometimes it's for money, sometimes it's for sex, sometimes it's
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for drugs. It's wild. So the fact that they just pacified and say
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he's a good man, he's married, He couldn't have done anything to contribute
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to this makes me furious exactly. And also considering that I don't know the
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exact age of Casey, but I assume that he's a number of years older
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than Ashley, who is still just a university student. But you have to
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sense that there might be something to this relationship because like how many older men
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would lend their police officer shirt to like a young girl so she could wear
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a sexy police officer costumes. So it just gives me the creeps that like
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he just wanted to like possibly get her boyfriend under the bar so he could
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hit on her. And then this guy, this this boyfriend suddenly goes missing
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and now the police don't want to cooperate because they're more concerned about this married
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man's reputation. Is that even allowed? Are you even allowed to lend your
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uniform to other people? Like? I don't think so, that's what I'm
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thinking. It does not sound like that goes with regulations because I know that
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most of the time, if you want to be a sexy police officer,
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you just buy a costume with a uniform shirt. It just doesn't seem right
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to be like lending an official uniform as part of the Halloween costume. No,
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it's definitely not right. It's like the Tachi way when people borrow someone's
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military uniform or by a military uniform from a thrift short It's like that was
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somebody's service uniform, you know, like I don't know, but there's some
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maybe police officer, no way, but there's something intimate about borrowing somebody's uniform.
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Like, I just don't feel like you would just have a casual kind
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of like just know you on the street or like acquaintance type relationship to lend
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somebody that, or to feel like you could even ask somebody to borrow that.
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Don't you guys think, Yeah, it does seem strange. I think
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like most police officers would be reluctant to do something like that, especially to
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like a young university girl who's probably like several years younger. She's gonna spill
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alcohol all over it, she's wearing it on Halloween night. It doesn't seem
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like the chance that you're going to get it in Christine conditioned back are that
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great. And I don't think Casey's wife would approve either. That's exactly what
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I was just about to say. And I don't think that this amazingly married
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man who has his family at the forefront would be at the bar on Halloween
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night loaning his uniform out either. Chuck Klosh would pursue other leads, which
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included checking the surveillance footage from two outside cameras at the Federal Reserve Bank.
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If Chris had attempted to head back to his house after walking away from the
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bar. The quickest route would have involved walking across the Hennepin Avenue Bridge.
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The cameras outside the Federal Reserve Bank pointed directly at the bridge, but there
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was no sign of Chris at all in any of the surveillance footage from Halloween
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night or the early morning hours in November the first. The surveillance operator maintained
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that it would have been impossible for anyone to cross the thousand foot length of
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the bridge without being captured on camera. The Jenkins hired the services of some
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canine units, and two separate bloodhounds would attempt to track Chris's scent from the
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Lone Tree Bar. On both occasions, the dogs traveled to Times Square Pizza
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and Subs, located across the street from the bar. Before following Chris is
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sent into an underground parking garage next door and coming to an end at a
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spot in front of parking stalls eighty nine and ninety. In addition, dropless
18:21
of blood residue, a piece of red string, and red feather fragments which
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possibly belonged to the headband from Chris's Native American costume, were found in the
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garage, Though this was all apparently dismissed as potential evidence by the Minneapolis PD.
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It's also worth noting that the friend who originally drove Chris to the bar
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parked their vehicle at another location, so there would have been no logical reason
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for Chris to enter the garage on his own, So there was no reason
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for him to go towards a vehicle, maybe thinking Okay, I can meet
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my friends at our car. But there does seem to be a scent that
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ends right there, meaning either he did go that direction and was met by
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somebody else and taken or went that direction, met with someone else and voluntarily
19:03
got in the car. But then you add the droplets of blood and the
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feathers and the string. It's very disturbing. Do they eventually go back and
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link this evidence to the case, or did they just miss it at the
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beginning? It never went back. They do die further into it and look
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into the possibility that someone affiliated with the bar might have been parked in that
19:27
garage on that particular night, but they aren't able to conclusively prove if Chris
19:33
actually left inside a vehicle. But the idea that they was dismissed right away
19:37
by the Minneapolis PD is pretty disturbing because like the string and the feather,
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fragments like those aren't normal things you're just ordinarily going to find a parking garage.
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So it seems pretty likely that these did belong to Chris's costume and that
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he was there at some point, Like at least you think that they would
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explore the theory that there could have been foul play based on the fact that
19:56
there seems to be some actual evidence, rather than landing on he's sowing his
20:02
wild oats when we have absolutely zero evidence of that transpiring. So more bloodhound
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tracking was performed in December of that year, and this time they followed Chris's
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scent outside the parking garage and through the downtown area for four point four miles
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before it came to an end at the northbound ramp of Interstate ninety four.
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This seemed to indicate that Chris had entered or been forced into a vehicle inside
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the garage, which transported him to another location, while one of the garage's
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attendants claimed that on Halloween night, either stall eighty nine or ninety had been
20:38
occupied by a vehicle driven by a bouncer from the Lone Tree Bar. Though
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it's unclear which one one of the bloodhounds did walk by this person's vehicle and
20:48
produced a mild hit for Chris's scent, but for whatever reason, there was
20:52
no indication that this lead was ever followed up on by law enforcement. It's
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also worth noting that a weird message was found squawled on one of Chris's missing
21:00
posters, which was posted only two blocks from the Lone Tree Bar. It
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read quote loaded in trunk, paid by dollars green end quote. Chuck Losch
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would also speak with multiple witnesses who were called seeing a group of at least
21:17
ten people attacking an unidentified mail in front of Times Square, Pizza and Subs
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in the early morning hours after Halloween night. It's unclear if the victim was
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Chris, but it's been theorized that the attack may have been some sort of
21:30
gang initiation. This is wild. Their initial assumption is Chris had an accident
21:37
or completed suicide, and yet we have the undercover police officer who might have
21:41
wanted him out of that bar so he could hit on Ashley. We have
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a cent that's followed to potentially one of the bouncer's cars with blood present.
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We also have a potential gang initiation or attack that happens in that same area.
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So how when you have these pieces of information, is your gut and
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an eventual ruling that it's an accident suicide and not undetermined at the least.
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And at this point, Chris's body has still not been found, and this
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is December, one year after one month after he went missing, So obviously
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this goes against the theory that he was out there sowing his oats. So
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it makes you wonder why don't they jump into action, like Chris has been
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gone for over a month now and we have evidence of foul plays, So
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it just blows my mind that the police are not taking this more seriously.
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Well, Chris would continue to remain a missing person until after the new year,
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but there would finally be answers on February the twenty seventh, two thousand
22:37
and three, when pedestrians traveling across the Third Avenue Bridge reported seeing a male
22:41
body floating on the east side of the Mississippi River. The body had gotten
22:45
wedged in the branches of a large tree located next to the upper Saint Anthony
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Falls Dam. The victim was floating on his back with his arms crossed in
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front of him, and when he was retrieved, he was discovered to be
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dressed in a Native American costume and conclusively identified as Chris Jenkins. Even though
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Chris had been drinking before he disappeared, he was not believed to be overly
23:07
intoxicated, as his blood alcohol level was only zero point one two percent.
23:11
There are also traces of the date rape drug GHB in Chris's system, but
23:17
since GHB is also a substance which can be produced by the body naturally,
23:21
this did not necessarily mean that Chris was drugged prior to his death. Given
23:26
the amount of time he was missing, Chris's body had relatively little decomposition.
23:30
The medical examiner found no signs of foul play, but nothing to suggest that
23:34
he died of natural causes, so the official cause of death would be listed
23:38
as undetermined. The tragedy affected the community in a huge way, so for
23:42
the first time in their history, the University of Minnesota decided to award Chris
23:48
a posthumous degree. However, while the Minneapolis PD leaned towards Chris's death being
23:52
an accidental drowning or a suicide, his friends and family disagreed. They immediately
23:57
discounted the suicide theory because Chris showed no signs of depression and was excitedly preparing
24:03
for the future, as he already had job interviews lined up after his graduation.
24:07
Yeah, there's nothing here. None of his friends said anything about something
24:11
going wrong that evening. He had plans after the night out, So it
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doesn't seem like suicide is one of the explanations I'd at all come to here.
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He was separated from his party on Halloween night and wasn't seen for what
24:29
five months were his body's discovered in the water. So I'm just devastated here.
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I can't imagine what the family is going through, saying like, Hi,
24:38
did anyone want to do a thorough investigation? Was anyone going to help
24:41
us find our son? Or was it just easier to pretending nothing to happen
24:47
until you were forced to when the body was discovered. And it's particularly frustrating
24:52
because this was only a couple miles away from the bar where he originally went
24:56
missing, and you think to yourself, if anyone had been performing in search
24:59
of this area, like right after Chris went missing, maybe things would have
25:03
turned out differently and we'd have more insight into what actually happened to him.
25:07
There was also some question of how Chris wound up in the river to begin
25:11
with, since he had no broken bones. This seemed to discount the idea
25:15
of him following or jumping off either the third Avenue bridge or the head of
25:19
an Avenue bridge, which was located approximately one quarter mile northwest from where Chris's
25:26
body was found. Believe it or not, one police officer stated that perhaps
25:30
Chris had drowned after jumping into the water while attempting to save a duck.
25:37
Misresolved, Yeah, that's clearly how this theory ended up, going from being
25:42
in the confines of his brain to him speaking it into reality in front of
25:47
other people as beyond me. Since the Minnesota PD officially considered the case to
25:52
be closed, the Jenkins family were forced to conduct their own independent investigation and
25:59
consulted with noun forensic pathologist doctor Michael Bodden. Doctor Bowden's biggest issue with the
26:04
accidental drowning theory was that Chris was found with his arms crossed in front of
26:10
him and he had his hands clenched if one were to accidentally fall into a
26:14
body of water. Their first natural reaction would be to attempt to swim,
26:18
which is why drowning victims are usually found face down with their arms out towards
26:23
their sides. Their clothing is usually disheveled, and it's not uncommon for one
26:29
or more of their shoes to be missing, but this was not the case
26:33
with Chris or his Halloween costume, as his nylon shirt was tucked into his
26:37
drawstring pants and he was still wearing both of his oversized slip on moccasins.
26:42
Chrisma's family also found it unusual that he was found with no bruising on his
26:47
body. Since he was a lacrosse goalie, it was very common for Chris
26:52
to get bruises on his legs or forearms, and he'd played in two games
26:55
and gone to practice during the day before he vanished. Since these bruises were
27:00
not present on Chris's body, this led to speculation that he was alive for
27:03
at least three or four days after he went missing, allowing enough time for
27:07
his bruises to heal. Who There's a lot to think about in this part,
27:14
Okay, So if he had been a victim of an attack, then
27:18
he would have definitely had bruising even three to four days later. And it
27:22
seems odd to me that you would hold a person like Chris captive. He's
27:27
twenty one years old, he's a strong athlete, and you would have him
27:32
in the same close. He wouldn't be beaten those kinds of things. I'm
27:37
wondering how you would hold somebody like that against their will for three to four
27:41
days and then dump their body. And it does seem like something had happened
27:45
and he was then placed in that location, because, like you said,
27:48
Jules, if he had been alive and conscious at all, he would have
27:52
been trying to save his own life, not the duck's life, but his
27:56
own life. And yeah, I would have probably taken that stupid, you
28:00
know, Native American costume off and put him in something else if I was
28:06
holding him hostage for several days. It just none of it makes sense for
28:10
any of the explanations. If he was held for three or four days,
28:12
we would likely see either needle marks because you'd have to sedate him in some
28:18
capacity, or you would see bruising on the wrist because they would have to
28:22
bind him in some way to be able to control him. You would either
28:26
need drugs or the ability to bind him. So it just doesn't really seem
28:30
to line up with like what you said, Ash, Like his costume is
28:33
pristine and he doesn't have bruises all over his body, so how would they
28:37
have been able to subdue him? And I don't put much credence into the
28:41
bruises thing, because even though it was common practice for him to get bruises
28:44
while playing lacrosse, I don't think anyone is one hundred percent sure that he
28:47
got bruises in the games and the practice that he went through right before he
28:52
went missing. So for all we know, he may not have had any
28:53
bruises on his body at that point before he went missing. So this is
28:57
kind of a red herring, okay, And like, I just have a
29:00
few questions about the duck. So do ducks often get into dire straits in
29:06
the water? Do ducks often get into situations where they could be potentially drowning?
29:10
And how would Chris be able to spot this duck in the dark and
29:14
know that the duck was in danger? Did the duck quack out for help?
29:18
Yeah, that makes me wonder how does a duck get into danger in
29:21
the water unless it's going into the path of an oncoming boat or something like
29:25
that. I don't think you should be too worried if you see a duck,
29:26
They're not going to drown. So yeah, I do not know what
29:30
this police officer was thinking. And that why you would actually say this out
29:33
loud in front of Chris's family. Sounds like a theory that somebody would come
29:38
up with while they were like smoking a joint or something, and they'd be
29:41
laughing about with their friends, not an actual theory that you would share in
29:45
public with other human beings. It's embarrassing. Hydrologists from the University of Minnesota's
29:52
River Lab, who are known for profiling the Mississippi River, were also consulted
29:56
about this case, and they had a hard time believing that Chris's body could
29:59
have in the river the entire time he was missing. While temperatures during Minneapolis
30:03
winters can often get cold enough to freeze over the Mississippi River, this did
30:07
not actually occur during the months after Chris went missing, and the first real
30:11
freeze occurred in early January of two thousand and three. After that, there
30:15
were three separate periods of daytime thawing, with the last one occurring on February
30:21
to twenty seventh, right before Chris was discovered, So if Chris's body had
30:25
originally gone into the river shortly after he went missing, it likely would have
30:29
flowed downstream and been seen during those four months. The area beneath the third
30:33
Avenue Bridge was also searched by police and canine units on multiple occasions in November
30:38
of two thousand and two, and they never saw any sign of Chris.
30:42
It turned out that there were large amounts of snow and ice on Chris's upper
30:45
body, particularly his right hand, which seemed to indicate that they had been
30:51
exposed to the elements, and the last day a major precipitation in the area
30:55
was February third. If Chris was already in the water by that point,
30:59
then his body likely would have been placed there at a different location, possibly
31:03
after he was already dead. It may have floated downstream for a short period
31:07
of time before it got caught and froze into some tree branches, but wound
31:11
up being concealed for weeks after the river froze over. When the river on
31:15
thought in February the twenty seventh, that's when Chris's body became visible, Chuck
31:21
Losh spoke to witnesses who had crossed the Third Avenue Bridge on February the twenty
31:23
sixth, the day before Chris was discovered, who looked down into the river
31:29
and were certain his body was not there. On February the twenty seventh,
31:33
another witness who crossed the bridge claimed that they saw Chris's body entangled in tree
31:37
branches about one hundred yards away from the spot where he was eventually recovered.
31:41
She called nine one one, but it seems likely that before police arrived,
31:45
the body had floated in the direction of the upper Saint Anthony Falls damn.
31:51
When the tree branches got stuck, they prevented Chris from going over the falls.
31:55
The hydrologists also theorized that Chris's body originally entered the river approximately one mile
32:00
from where he was found. This meant his possible entry point would have been
32:04
northwest of the Hennepin Avenue Bridge, a location Chris had no reason to visit
32:08
on his own if he was attempting to walk from the bar to his residence
32:13
on the night he vanished. Another unusual anomaly was that the combined weight of
32:16
Chris's lungs seemed to equal half the weight a one normal, healthy lung.
32:22
This seemed to suggest that his cause of death may not have been drowning,
32:24
but suffocation, possibly by having a plastic bag tied around his head. If
32:30
he was murdered in that passion, that could account for why there were no
32:34
noticeable signs of foul play on his body. Could he also have been smothered
32:37
with a pillow or something that wouldn't have required physical hands or a ligature around
32:42
his neck? That's true. Yeah, a pillow and also a bag like
32:45
anything that was not going to leave any noticeable marks. And it makes sense
32:49
where you look at Chris's body is almost in pristine condition. They said there
32:52
was very little decomposition, which allowed them to see that there weren't really signs
32:55
of physical attacks on his body. But it seems like he was really frozen
33:01
in the water the whole time, so that would preserve it and keep it
33:06
as if it had just been placed there. But it could have been there
33:08
for months based on what you were saying, correct, it's true. Yeah,
33:13
like it could have been there for months, but just in a location
33:15
where it cannot be seen by the general public. Yeah. I don't put
33:19
much credence in the girl either, who said I'm or the person who said
33:21
I'm positive that they were not there that day, you know, the February
33:24
twenty sixth, and then someone says, February twenty seventh, he was there.
33:29
Yes, his body could have moved, but someone would have just been
33:30
wrong as well. You could just glance down and you might not see it.
33:35
One thing I do find really startling is the way that he's posed.
33:37
It almost seems to be like a funerary posed, right when you pose somebody
33:43
with their arms crossed, like across their chest. It just doesn't seem to
33:47
be the way that somebody would drown. But I don't think that he would
33:52
be moved to that position at that point. It just seems likely that with
33:55
the freezing, his body then became visible and those eyewitness maybe just didn't get
34:00
a good enough look or were mistaken. Maybe they just weren't at a good
34:04
vantage point when they chose to glance down there. We talk about eyewitnesses all
34:08
the time and how easy it is to be incorrect, but to believe wholeheartedly
34:13
that what you were saying is the truth because you were recalling it as your
34:16
truth, but it just isn't really the universal truth. Yeah, if someone
34:22
asked me months after the fact, Hey, when you were walking across the
34:24
bridge on this particular day, did you happen to glance down into the water,
34:29
It's like, I'm not going to remember that with accuracy. So I
34:30
may convince myself that I look down, but in actuality I may not have
34:35
been looking at all. In two thousand and four, Stephen Jan Jenkins had
34:39
a meeting with the newly appointed Minneapolis Police Chief Bill McManus, who assured them
34:45
that a new investigation would be launched into Chris's death. But it would only
34:50
be a month and a half later when Chief McManus sent them a letter informing
34:54
them that the case was now officially closed. A surprising discovery was made during
35:00
the spring of two thousand and six. During a review of autopsy photographs,
35:06
one of the Jenkins' neighbors noticed what appeared to be a clump of hair clutched
35:09
in Chris's left hand, and sure enough, this hunch turned out to be
35:14
accurate, as human hair was found sealed in an envelope simply labeled foreign matter
35:19
in left hand, which is why it had never been tested. DNA testing
35:23
would eventually determine that the hair did belong to Chris, though there was no
35:28
explanation for why he was clutching a clump of his own hair in his hand
35:31
anyway. By this point, Bill McManus was no longer Minneapolis Police chief,
35:37
and another man named Tim Dolan had been appointed to the position. The jenkinses
35:43
decided to present their findings about Chris's death to Chief Dolan, and this time
35:47
the new evidence seemed to make a strong impression, as Dolan ordered the case
35:52
to be reopened. Later that year, Stephen jan would be called into a
35:57
meeting with the medical examiner and two officers from the homicide unit, who finally
36:01
conceded that Chris had likely been a victim of foul play. On November twentieth,
36:07
two thousand and six, Chief Dolan held a press conference in which he
36:10
announced that Chris's death had now been reclassified as a homicide, and he even
36:15
issued a formal public apology. He stated, quote, we made an assumption,
36:22
and because of that assumption, we probably caused pain. Well, I
36:24
know we caused pain in the Jenkins family, more pain than they had to
36:29
suffer and then they already had suffered. And for that, for the Minneapolis
36:35
Police Department, I want to apologize to the Jenkins family. End quote.
36:39
Stephen jan accepted their apology and there would be some new developments in the investigation.
36:45
Let me just say, holy heck. When do we ever hear of
36:52
a whole department taking accountability and the police chief saying, I'm pretty sure we
36:57
messed up and I owe a big apology to this mom and dad who lost
37:01
their son and were not given straightforward answers and were kind of misled for the
37:07
last four years. That alone, when I work with families, the validation,
37:13
the respect, the just empathy that you show for a family like what
37:19
Chief Dolan did. Wow. Wow. Even though they didn't have answers in
37:23
two thousand and six, they did get a piece of the puzzle where they
37:28
said, we were heard, we were believed. Chris received a form of
37:32
justice that day by saying he didn't take his own life. This was no
37:36
drunken accident. Our baby went to a Halloween party, was being a twenty
37:40
one year old kid, and he lost his life due to somebody else's hands.
37:45
It's interesting when you talk about the fact that Chris could have had his
37:49
own hair or did have his own hair in his hands. What if he
37:52
was being smothered by a pillow, had a sweatshirt tied around his face really
37:57
tight or something, and he's gripped at the edge of that material, trying
38:01
to rip it off of his head, trying to pull a huge blanket pressed
38:08
against him, a big pillow press against him, and he's gripping at his
38:12
head so hard that he's pulling his hair out and his hands clenched like that
38:15
in his death. That would make sense to me because I think that if
38:20
this was an accidental drowning, like I'm sure he would be flailing his arms
38:23
and trying to clutch onto something. But if you're in the water, I'm
38:25
not sure you can get enough momentum to literally pull your own hair out of
38:30
your head. But if you're being held down and struggling like you're being suffocated
38:34
or something, then yes, I think it is possible that you might pull
38:37
your own hair out just out of desperation. I think that's a good theory.
38:40
Ash That makes total sense to me. Around the same time period,
38:45
an investigator revealed that there was a suspect slash witness and custody in another state
38:51
on an unrelated charge. Well, it would turn out that a witness had
38:53
told authorities that they were present when Chris was murdered. They said an acquaintance
38:59
of theirs attempt to rob Chris on Hallowey Night in two thousand and two and
39:02
proceeded to toss him off the Hennepin Avenue Bridge into the Mississippi River. However,
39:07
there were some major credibility issues with this story. As you recall,
39:12
none of the security cameras at the Federal Reserve Bank captured footage of Chris walking
39:15
onto this bridge on the night he went missing. The bridge was also brightly
39:20
lit and had heavy traffic at all hours of the night, so it seemed
39:23
unlikely that anyone could have thrown a person into the river from there without any
39:28
witnesses seeing anything. If that wasn't enough, the bridge also had a high
39:31
safety railing, along with a steel support beam and vertical metal cables. If
39:37
Chris had been thrown over the railing, he certainly would have hit the beam
39:39
and the cables on the way down, but he had no injuries on his
39:43
body. In July two thousand and seven, the Hennepin County District Attorney's office
39:47
announced that they had been approached by the Minneapolis pd about filing charges against the
39:52
suspect for Chris's murder, but they ultimately declined to do so, but would
39:57
not provide any further details. So, okay, in July two thousand and
40:02
seven, they say that they're going to arrest somebody right file charges and nothing
40:10
happened. That's true. Yeah, And at the time they did not provide
40:15
any details about the suspect or what evidence they had against them. But we're
40:20
going to talk about it later. But there are some other people who committed
40:22
another murder in Minnesota that I do believe that this is the suspect they were
40:28
planning to arrest, but for whatever reason, they just decided against it.
40:31
But I don't think this person has ever been eliminated as a suspect. Let
40:36
me ask you this. Have the other people that we've looked at before.
40:38
We had the bouncer at the bar, we had the police officer who was
40:42
off duty, and we had the individuals that they think were attacking some one
40:46
at the pizza place. Were any of those people interviewed and excluded as suspects
40:54
or were they always on the suspect list. It's never been officially confirmed.
40:59
Like the gang members who attacked the guy near the pizza place. I don't
41:01
think they ever identified who those people were, and the details about the bouncers
41:07
are very vague. I'm not entirely sure if they were questioned. I don't
41:09
even know, like if the identities of the bouncers have been released publicly.
41:14
And of course Officer Casey, they didn't want to interview him back in two
41:17
thousand and two because he was a married man and they didn't want to damage
41:21
his reputation. But I would like to think that when Chief Dolan took power,
41:24
he did finally have Casey interviewed, but I don't think they found any
41:28
evidence that he was directly complicit in Chris's murder. In two thousand and nine,
41:34
John Jenkins published a book titled Footprints of Courage, which celebrated Chris's life
41:38
but also expressed the family's frustration at having his death ignored by the Minneapolis PD
41:45
for four years. Well Jan greatly admired Chief Dolan's attempts to make things right,
41:50
she also found herself dissatisfied with the lack of progress from investigators. Since
41:54
Chris's case was reopened in twenty eighteen, The case was featured on episode of
42:00
the true crime investigation Discovery TV series Breaking Homicide, which revealed some new pieces
42:07
of information for starters. On the same night Chris disappeared, two men nearly
42:12
got into an altercation at the Lone Tree Bar because one of the men had
42:16
walked in off the street and was attempting to hit on the other's girlfriend.
42:21
Chris apparently intervened and attempted to play peacemaker in order to get both sides to
42:25
cool down. A fight never wound up taking place, but it's unclear if
42:30
the incident played a role in Chris getting ejected from the bar. The show
42:35
also contained an interview with an anonymous informant who shared an unsettling story about frequenting
42:40
the Lone Tree Bar about two months before Chris went missing. This man had
42:45
contacted the Jenkins family fifteen years earlier, but this was the first time that
42:51
he was willing to go on the record. The informant claimed that he ordered
42:54
a drink at the bar, which he thought tasted weird, so he decided
42:59
to go outside. The gets a mare. However, as he was walking,
43:01
he could feel himself losing his senses, and he then remembered two bouncers
43:07
grabbing him and removing him from the bar to take him towards a parked vehicle
43:10
outside. The informant was able to pull out his phone and contact one of
43:15
his friends inside the bar, who quickly showed up and intervened before he could
43:20
be placed in the vehicle. The informant now suspected that someone had drugged his
43:23
drink with JHB and that this was an attempted abduction. Well, that's absolutely
43:30
horrifying since we know for a fact that he's kicked out of the bar under
43:34
circumstances that don't seem very threatening, and it wasn't like he was in a
43:38
fight, It wasn't like he was making people feel uncomfortable. He's kicked out
43:44
of the bar. We know that a scent is tracked to a parking location
43:47
where we believe at least one of the bouncers was parked, and there was
43:51
blood there. So if this informant is telling the truth, his situation very
43:58
much could align with what happened to And we know that Chris had a presence
44:01
of GHB in his body. Now, he did not have a very high
44:06
blood alcohol content. It was point one two, which is over the legal
44:09
driving limit. But that doesn't mean that you're, you know, incredibly intoxicated
44:15
necessarily, and we do know that once you pass away the GHB, those
44:21
chemical components can present themselves in decomposition. But what if he actually was slipped
44:27
GHB and what if he was taken to that parking spot where the bouncer was
44:31
and abducted the way that this individual says they almost were. Yeah, and
44:36
it's such a strange story. And unfortunately we still don't know the identity of
44:39
the anonymous informant and know how much credibility he has. But it's the way
44:44
he describes it. It's like, does this bar just have like this crew
44:46
of bouncers who like to sleep slip GHB into the drinks of men and then
44:51
like attempt to abduct them. Because he specifically said that these bouncers were taking
44:54
me towards a parked vehicle before my friend intervened. And I keep wondering,
45:00
like, did you tell the police about this back when this happened right before
45:04
Chris went missing, because it should be a major red flag if it feels
45:07
like this bar is drugging people and then trying to abduct him. I wonder
45:10
if they were too embarrassed to say something. I mean, you're you're a
45:15
man, and you were somehow compromised, and you have grown men trying to
45:20
take you somewhere. I wonder if it's one of those things where it's like,
45:22
geez, I'm never going back there, and I'm going to tell everybody
45:24
I know not to go there. But I'm kind of embarrassed or I don't
45:28
really understand what happened to me, so maybe I'm crazy. I wonder if
45:30
there was a lot of that going on in this individual's head. I think
45:34
it's likely if it indeed did go down like that, it would be something
45:38
that you would have those feelings of shame. But I also question, like
45:43
from another perspective, if those bouncers were in there and they were somehow trying
45:49
to drug people with GHB or maybe the bartenders work, I would think the
45:52
likely targets would be women or girls and people that they're going to take advantage
45:58
of. Less likely going to be the cross place saying men. I mean,
46:00
there's a potential there, but imagine a scenario where they're trying to drug
46:06
a girl but by accident he got this guy got the drink, and so
46:10
rather than have you know, him be a huge puddle and mess outside and
46:15
have potentially the police get involved, because now other people are going to find
46:20
out that he's been drugged, and then there could be kind of finds levied
46:23
against the bar or an investigation that they then were going to put him into
46:29
a vehicle and just dump him elsewhere, so that it wasn't their problem.
46:34
That is true, Like it couldn't have been. It may not have been
46:36
like an attempt to abduct him and kill him, because if it was just
46:38
like an accident where they drugged the wrong drink and like the intended target was
46:43
a young woman, it may just be a case where, well, if
46:45
we take him out of here and dump him, he'll have no memory of
46:46
what happened, and he won't have anything if he wants to contact the police.
46:52
But the biggest revelation on breaking homicide involved the convicted murderer named Jeremy Alford.
46:58
In two thousand and five, Jeremy and his younger brother Luis Alford were
47:01
charged with the murder of a man named Douglas Miller. They were both sharing
47:06
a mobile home with Miller in New Brighton, Minnesota, and were about to
47:08
be evicted before they proceeded to stab and bludgeon Miller to death. The brothers
47:14
were captured in their home state of Iowa the following day. Jeremy eventually pleaded
47:19
guilty to first degree murder and received a life sense, while Louise was found
47:22
guilty of second degree murder and received a twenty five year sins Anyway, Jeremy
47:27
Alfred would tell the FBI that he was involved with a gang of killers known
47:30
as the Dealers of Death, who had murdered between thirty to forty people,
47:35
and his right hand man was a guy nicknamed Zami Lei with a Z.
47:38
A female informant supposedly told police that Alfred had bragged about murdering Chris Jenkins,
47:44
and Alford apparently did divulge some information which suggested that he had inside knowledge about
47:49
what happened on the breaking homicide episode. Another anonymous informant, who was apparently
47:53
a former member of local law enforcement, claimed that Alfred and his crew were
47:58
regular patrons at the l Loane Tree Bar and may have been there on the
48:01
same night as Chris's disappearance and gotten into a scuffle with him when contacted to
48:07
inquire about his potential involvement in Chris's case. Alfred simply responded, quote,
48:12
I really don't want to talk about any crime I have been charged with or
48:15
convicted of. End quote. Thus far, there is no conclusive evidence to
48:20
implicate Alfred, and the death of Chris Jenkins continues to remain unsolved. So
48:24
I guess you could say the path went Chile. Is it possible that Alfred
48:30
is one of the individuals that was getting in a fight that Chris tried to
48:32
break up. It is possible, yes, I mean, they've never been
48:36
able to conclusively determine if he was in the bar that night, but I
48:40
do think that's a possibility. And I also think it's possible that Alfred was
48:45
the suspect that they were planning to charge with murder in two thousand and seven
48:47
before they decided against it. But because they haven't revealed that information publicly,
48:52
it's all just speculation. Okay, So I don't mind saying this straight away.
48:58
I'm really not sure what to make of this case. On the surface,
49:00
if you didn't delve too deeply into this story, it would be easy
49:04
to assume that Chris's death was nothing more than a tragic accident and that he
49:07
somehow fell into the river while attempting to walk. Hope. The condition of
49:12
his body seems to go against him having fallen from a bridge, But one
49:15
theory I've seen pushed forward is that perhaps Chris walked down to the edge of
49:19
the river somewhere in order to relieve himself, but accidentally fell in. Of
49:23
course, even if there was no foul play, you could still argue that
49:27
the bouncers from the Lone Tree Bar and Grill, which is no longer in
49:30
business in case you were wondering, were guilty of negligence because they tossed Chris
49:35
outside on a cold winter night without even allowing him to retrieve his coat,
49:38
whilet cell phone and keys. It doesn't sound like Chris actually did anything to
49:44
justify being ejected, so you can understand his family's frustration. I just mentioned
49:50
this case's appearance on the TV series Breaking Homicide in case you've never watched it.
49:54
It was co hosted by police detective Derek Lavassor, who has since gone
49:58
on to co host the pod cast Crime Weekly, and forensic psychologist Chris Muhandi.
50:04
What's interesting is that while a Vassor firmly believed that Chris was the victim
50:07
of foul play, Mohandi still leaned towards his death being an accident. Former
50:13
Minneapolis police Chief Tim Dolan was also interviewed on the episode, and he actually
50:16
stated that while he did have the case reclassified as a homicide, he now
50:22
felt that the percentage of likelihood for Chris's death being a homicide was fifty percent,
50:25
accident around thirty percent, and suicide twenty percent or less. However,
50:30
it cannot be underestimated just how uncommon it is for law enforcement to do a
50:36
complete one eighty like Dolan did. Like I stated in the intro, I
50:39
have seen countless cases like this on shows like Unsolved Mysteries, where a victim's
50:45
death is officially ruled to be a suicide or an accident, but their family
50:47
is convinced it was foul play. They'll subsequently do things like hire their own
50:52
independent investigator who will review all the evidence and concur with their assessment that it
50:57
was murder. But in spite of this, ever changes. But here a
51:01
big city police chief had the death reclassified as a homicide, ordered the investigation
51:07
to be reopened, and made a formal public apology to the Jenkins family that
51:10
type of situation is pretty rare and demonstrates to me that the evidence pointing towards
51:15
foul play must have been fairly convincing. Even if Dolan is now confirmed that
51:21
he can't say with one hundred percent certainty that it was murder. I never
51:24
believed for a second that Chris's death was a suicide. And while one can't
51:29
completely discount the possibility of an accident, you would have to come up with
51:32
explanations to account for a number of odd things which don't make much sense.
51:37
At the very least, you have to feel that someone else was directly involved
51:42
with what happened to Chris. Yeah. Absolutely, the way his body was
51:45
located, in the clump of hair in his hand, and the fact that
51:50
he's sitting there with his arms crossing, his hands clenched, it just doesn't
51:53
seem like an accident. It seems like if it was an accident, he
51:57
would have tried to brace his fall, he would have tried to swim.
52:00
There just would have been so many other physical signs that he was fighting for
52:06
his life. Here it looks like he was deceased. His arms were crossed
52:09
and he was placed in the water, and then Rigamortus could have said it,
52:15
and maybe he stays in that seated position or in that cross position even
52:19
when his body floats down the river. It's maddening to me. If you
52:22
guys remember about two pages back, I said, Oh my gosh, how
52:27
profound is this that this is in two thousand and six, such a healing
52:30
moment for the family to say, the police chief apologized, the police chief
52:35
validated us, and then you have the same police chief say, I mean,
52:42
I don't really know what happened. I'm fifty percent sure it's a homicide,
52:45
thirty percent sure it's an accident, and twenty percent sure it's a suicide.
52:50
Can you imagine being the family members sitting there who have been fighting since
52:53
two thousand and two for justice for their son hearing that statement alone. I
53:00
really feel for the family, like that would just be so heartbreaking, especially
53:05
we're like, okay, well, he's a fifty percent that it's likely homicide.
53:08
I'm sure the Dolan worked tirelessly to get that ruling reverse so that it
53:15
was ruled to be a homicide and not just accidental. At the end of
53:19
the day, I guess there's just not enough concrete evidence and I think that
53:22
goes back to the police initially not investigating and not asking the right questions of
53:28
the right people up front. And like when we're looking at a situation where
53:31
we've got this feather, we've got the blood. We have these issues with
53:37
Casey and his girlfriend Ashley, where maybe they had a relationship, maybe they
53:40
didn't, but either way, Casey's trying to get Chris out of the way.
53:45
And then we've got these bouncers who reject him in this irresponsible way.
53:50
And then we have his lungs, which I only had about half the weight,
53:53
which was really something that would have been more indicative of somebody who was
53:58
strangled or suffol hated, So that doesn't seem to line up with drowning.
54:02
And then, like Ashley pointed out with her brilliant theory of a bag could
54:07
have been placed over his head while he's clutching, he's grabbing, grabs a
54:10
tuft of hair. Would you really see that in an accident If you're drowning
54:14
thrashing your arms, why would you grab your hair? And then the position
54:17
that his body is found in it seems to lean personally to me more towards
54:22
homicide. But you know, you can never conclusively say when we just don't
54:24
have the answers, and we can't go back retroactively and ask the right questions
54:29
of people, because at the time they didn't want to break up happy families
54:31
and that was their justification, and they thought he was out sowing his wild
54:36
oats. Yeah, I really hope that Dolan told the family about that whole
54:39
fifty percent line and they didn't learn about it for the first time on national
54:44
television when he said that, I mean to be fair, This is twelve
54:46
years later, So perhaps after further investigation, Dolan did find evidence which showed
54:52
that there was a less likelihood of homicide and that maybe it was an accident.
54:55
But like we mentioned earlier, back in two thousand and seven, they
54:59
came very close to arresting someone in charging them with Chris's murder. So it
55:04
makes you wonder what has happened within the past decade that has made Dolit less
55:07
certain that homicide took place. But you have to feel that there's a lot
55:12
of information that they have just never shared with the public. So I think
55:15
this would be a good time to bring an end to Part one. But
55:17
join us next week as we present Part two of our series about the unexplained
55:22
death of Chris Jenkins. Robin, do you want to tell us a little
55:27
bit about the Trail Went Cold? Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon
55:30
has been around for three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features
55:35
like early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign thank
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you cards to anyone who signs up with us on Patreon. If you join
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our five dollars tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which
55:49
I talk about cases which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed,
55:53
so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier
55:57
three, the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is a
56:00
audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries, where you can download an
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audio file and then boot up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
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YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background, where I
56:15
just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally,
56:21
the very first episode that I did a commentary track over was the episode
56:24
featuring this case. So if you want to download a commentary track in which
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I make more smart ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor. Then be sure to join
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Tier three. So I want to let you know a little bit about the
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out those patreons. We'll link them in the show notes. So I want
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up because cold trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul
57:14
Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy