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A Matchup 4-1 Zone Defense · A Quick Timeout

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Coach Josh Brown is in his second season as the head coach at
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Covenant College,
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SPEAKER_01: a D3 school in the mountains of North Georgia.
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SPEAKER_01: This season,
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SPEAKER_01: my team will be playing Coach Brown's squad twice,
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and so I wanted to have him on the podcast to learn as much as
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I could before
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SPEAKER_01: putting together a scouting report.
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SPEAKER_01: No, that's not true.
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SPEAKER_01: That's not true.
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SPEAKER_01: That's not true.
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coach welcome to the show glad to have you here love that
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appreciate you having me
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on coach coach brown is a great guy and has become a fast
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friend and when i asked
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him about coming on he suggested we talk about their matchup
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zone and that's
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something that i think we've only talked about one time in the
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show's history and
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we've never done a film session on it so i thought it'd be
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great choice to have on
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today him talk about that zone coach can you give just a brief
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history of this
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SPEAKER_01: particular defense and why this particular defense
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I was the assistant here when we put it in and it was more of a,
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we wanted something different.
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SPEAKER_00: If you don't have one through five,
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SPEAKER_00: the best players on the floor,
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SPEAKER_00: it's hard to win playing 40 minutes a man.
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SPEAKER_00: It was actually COVID.
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SPEAKER_00: We were just like, you know what?
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SPEAKER_00: This is a crapshoot.
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year we're just gonna go all in on some kind of zone and figure
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it out and my boss
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Neil Young who's now at Ohio Northern he was friends with East
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Step who's at
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Cedarville and he's not Furman so when Cedarville's running
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some kind of matchup we
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kind of took that matchup and made it our own and then when I
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got the job I took
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SPEAKER_00: that matchup made it my own so it's kind of like
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formed into this a bunch of different matchup zones coming into
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one and it's been
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fun to play it's you know it's kind of morphed into it depends
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on your guys too
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what kind of guys you have um we had a really really big guy
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when i was the
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assistant that made the zone look look really good and then
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when he left how do you
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make the zone different to cater to the guys you got and kind
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of that stuff and so
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it's it's kind of morphed its way through cedarville who got
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i'm sure he got from
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SPEAKER_00: someone else who got from someone else and
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SPEAKER_00: It kind of became what it is now.
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I feel like this is another one of those things where we had a
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lot of time on our
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SPEAKER_01: hands during COVID.
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SPEAKER_01: And it sometimes helped, sometimes hurt.
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But it resulted,
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I think,
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in a lot of funky things that some of them have worked.
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SPEAKER_01: I'd like for you to share general principles,
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SPEAKER_01: I guess,
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that would be kind of how this differentiates itself from some
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of the other zones
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SPEAKER_01: or maybe even some other matchup zones.
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SPEAKER_01: And then go ahead and talk about installing that zone.
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Kind of the mindset of it is like every defense you play,
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you're going to give up something.
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SPEAKER_00: When I got my hands on it,
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I tried to tailor it towards let's pick and choose what we're
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going to give up.
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And so kind of the basis of our zone is we're trying to take
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away threes and then the rims.
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SPEAKER_00: That high post,
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SPEAKER_00: short corner,
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SPEAKER_00: the mid-range areas are just kind of open in it,
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SPEAKER_00: and I think you're just kind of playing numbers at that point.
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And so when you're installing it,
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obviously you want your guys to play hard.
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I think that's one of the struggles of any zone is just getting
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your guys understanding
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that you're not,
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it's not playing a two,
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three zone is not just taking a break.
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And especially guys going from high school to college,
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you're just like,
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Oh,
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I'm in a zone.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to sit in the spot.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to hang out and just go to offense.
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SPEAKER_00: So playing a zone is actually more active than man,
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SPEAKER_00: because you do have to be head on a swivel at all times.
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the insulation of it is is more of an inside out deal like so
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what do you what do
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you want to take away what do you want to emphasize and you
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work your way out from
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there and so when we had it it was we want to take away layups
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and we will take
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SPEAKER_00: away threes and so we kind of had our
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SPEAKER_00: Our outside guys, you know, we have our top guys and our wings.
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SPEAKER_00: What do we want those guys to be good at?
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SPEAKER_00: We wanted natural gaps because of the zone defense.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, kind of the give and take of playing a zone.
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SPEAKER_00: Like you may have your worst defender guarding the best player.
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SPEAKER_00: But you're going to have natural help sides.
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SPEAKER_00: You're going to have more players guarding the best player because,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: we talked about the term we used was six eyes on the ball,
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SPEAKER_00: especially when the best player had it.
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So you've got the guy on the ball and then two gap guys
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wherever the ball is at.
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SPEAKER_00: And you can do that in a zone.
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SPEAKER_00: It's a natural thing for us.
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SPEAKER_00: We wanted something that we.
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could also play man with how do we get our zone to like not be
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completely different
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than um our man and so we were trying to clog some gaps and so
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our matchup zone was
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a natural pack line type type deal it's not a the the greg
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neely 2-1-2 zone it's
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more of a it looks like a man so that we can in the middle of a
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transition
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standpoint we can go from man to zone or zone to man and
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there's not a lot of like
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SPEAKER_00: mental shifts our guys have to make
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SPEAKER_00: Those are kind of the biggest ones we want to do,
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SPEAKER_00: like the flow of the game,
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SPEAKER_00: obviously slowing the game down as far as using shot clock.
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SPEAKER_00: The first thing we wanted to do was transition.
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SPEAKER_00: I think transition offense is,
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SPEAKER_00: when we look at numbers,
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SPEAKER_00: it's the highest rated offensive play in the game.
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SPEAKER_00: And so how do you slow down transition?
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SPEAKER_00: How do you burn clock?
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I think there's a natural when you play zone and the other team
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just kind of like
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freezes let's get in our zone offense and whatever that is you
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know every team
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plays a different zone offense and i think kind of the benefit
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of having a zone is
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that zone offense isn't as advanced as man offense you have
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your typical three out
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two in which we'll see in the video we have kind of four out
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drive and kick stuff
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SPEAKER_00: we have you know ball screen stuff that you'll see against zone and
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After that,
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like,
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you just got to guard dudes that are just trying to make plays.
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SPEAKER_00: With a matchup,
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SPEAKER_00: in a best-case scenario world,
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you're able to play a team that runs a zone offense and you're
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matched up in it.
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SPEAKER_00: You're kind of guarding zone offense against a man-to-man defense,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: when you layer it all down.
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SPEAKER_00: And so it's an advantage,
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whereas you don't have to guard as many actions because the
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zone offense isn't
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SPEAKER_00: really tailored to play against guys who are just matched up.
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SPEAKER_00: up against it.
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SPEAKER_00: So none of them said all that.
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SPEAKER_00: I'll get into just installing it.
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SPEAKER_00: You have your top guys.
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SPEAKER_00: I think their job is to be decisive.
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I would rather guys mess up and play hard than take their time
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and get their rotations right.
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SPEAKER_00: And the big thing with the top guys is, one, it's the...
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the bumps like so we didn't bump everything we talked about a
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guy in the corner as
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far as that's when we bump if there's not a guy in the corner
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we don't bump we have
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don't you know obviously don't get split but then the biggest
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thing for those guys
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is how do you find the next guy so like you're kind of in a
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relationship with your
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other top guy and you're in a relationship with the wing if
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your other top guy
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SPEAKER_00: bumps your wing down you have to rotate over to find the next guy
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And if your top guy doesn't bump,
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we have to stay with the opposite wing.
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SPEAKER_00: Or you're constantly moving.
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You're constantly looking at the wing on your side and your
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other top guy.
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SPEAKER_00: You're in a relationship.
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SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of what we're saying.
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There's a lot going on if you can simplify that to the guys as
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far as let's make it easy.
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SPEAKER_00: You're just playing hard.
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SPEAKER_00: If this guy goes, you're going.
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SPEAKER_00: If not, you're coming off.
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SPEAKER_00: And the thing with the top guys is
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SPEAKER_00: We wanted to take away the threes.
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SPEAKER_00: And so any cutters, we let them go.
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Like no one's really hitting that guy at 18 feet,
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cutting behind our top guys.
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SPEAKER_00: We would rather them just like never go below 19 feet.
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SPEAKER_00: And you're just letting the offense cut through.
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SPEAKER_00: We got our middle guy in the middle.
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SPEAKER_00: and you're just finding the next guy,
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SPEAKER_00: finding the next guy up top,
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SPEAKER_00: which I'll reiterate that when we watch the film.
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SPEAKER_00: And then our bottom guys, they're just long and active.
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SPEAKER_00: They're really high.
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SPEAKER_00: The wing three is what teams will emphasize when you see a zone.
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And so you take away the wing three first,
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and then you can figure it out from there as far as
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SPEAKER_00: Are you getting bumped?
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SPEAKER_00: Once you play it long enough, the wings can understand.
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SPEAKER_00: If there's a guy in the corner,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get bumped,
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SPEAKER_00: so let me take away the three here first.
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SPEAKER_00: And there's different ways you can teach that closeout.
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You can have them just go outside hand,
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inside hand,
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however you want to do it with your guys.
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That's their main thing is take away the wing three and then
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the short corner.
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SPEAKER_00: There's different ways you can guard the short corner catch.
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SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about the middle in a minute.
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SPEAKER_00: But like the middle guy is you're staying under the rim.
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SPEAKER_00: You don't go outside of six feet.
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SPEAKER_00: If they shoot a floater at 10 feet over the top of you,
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SPEAKER_00: we will take that shot over you coming up and they're not getting around.
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SPEAKER_00: They're getting the free throw line.
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SPEAKER_00: They're getting a dump off.
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SPEAKER_00: We would rather than shoot a 10, 12 foot little jump shot or float.
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with you just being right in the charge circle then you know
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you coming out and now
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that the rim is open you have dump offs you have fruit throws
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you they're getting
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around you now you're in foul trouble you're almost playing
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that percentage of like
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the eight foot to 18 foot range of the floor is always going to
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be able to you're
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SPEAKER_00: going to get that shot i think that's also a mental shift for you guys is
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SPEAKER_00: I don't want to give up an open shot.
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SPEAKER_00: And,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: it's not technically open,
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SPEAKER_00: but like that shot as you probably,
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SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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SPEAKER_00: you're a numbers guy.
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SPEAKER_00: We're all numbers guys, I think, at some level.
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But any mid-range shot that you can give up is going to be good
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for your defense,
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SPEAKER_00: no matter what defense you're playing.
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SPEAKER_00: And so,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: part of this,
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the matchup zone was tailored towards what shots are we going
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to give up and take
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SPEAKER_00: away if a team came in and shot 60 high post turnarounds,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: we probably had a really good chance of winning that game.
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SPEAKER_00: And so speaking of high post catch,
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SPEAKER_00: there's different ways you can do the inside catches of high post,
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SPEAKER_00: short corner.
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SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we went man on that catch.
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SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just stayed in a zone on that catch.
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SPEAKER_00: It depends on who it was.
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There's different calls we had as far as if the five caught it
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on the other team and he wasn't.
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a shooting threat we just fanned out and I have a clip of that
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in there too as far
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as if it's a guy we want shooting it we just like we matched up
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on the outside and
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our middle guy was one-on-one with him under the basket staying
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with cutters is
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something we talked about too and like we had different calls
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as far as like we
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wanted to stay in man if we wanted to get matched up in the
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zone part of that's
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just playing it and learning it and and other than that and so
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same thing with
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short corner the biggest thing with those two catches is if
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they shot that
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shot from the short corner or the high post,
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we were probably going to be okay with it.
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SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_00: How many times are coaches going into the huddle being like,
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SPEAKER_00: hey,
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SPEAKER_00: if you catch that ball at 14 feet on the baseline,
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SPEAKER_00: you shoot that thing.
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SPEAKER_00: No, they're going to tell you to get to the rim.
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SPEAKER_00: They're going to tell you to get to the free throw line.
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As soon as you miss the first one,
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he's going to tell you to pass it out or get to the rim.
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SPEAKER_00: We really try to like slow close.
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SPEAKER_00: I call it a slow close out.
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SPEAKER_00: Encourage those catches as far as like
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ready to contest but like don't fly out that guy at 14 feet so
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he can drive around
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you and get to the rim and then ball screens we didn't want to
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over complicate the
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ball screen so we just told that guard he's on an island a
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little bit different but
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it's really like once you see it on film you understand no one
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really wants to take
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that dribble back step back three or at least their coach
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doesn't want that you
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mean some guys will shoot that thing but and that's that comes
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into scouting as far
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SPEAKER_00: as who do you
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who's on the team who's a preferred shooter for them who's who
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are the guys that
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really need to lock in on a lot of times teams will run a ball
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screen against the
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zone to get their feet in the paint and so we just try to go
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under that i think
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zone is something that the the struggle of running zone is
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wanting to get rid of it
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too quick because in practice when you're running zone your
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team's going to torch
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SPEAKER_00: it because they know how to beat the zone and so
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Any team that's run a zone in practice knows that we've had
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guys every year playing
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SPEAKER_00: against our zone and they score every time.
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SPEAKER_00: You just got to have some perspective on it.
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There has been a shift that has been analytically driven,
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which I know there are different
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levels and ages of coaches who listen to this podcast and some
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of the older coaches
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may have a difficulty with this i've heard you say a couple
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times like we'll live
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with that i feel sometimes to the og guys that's kind of like
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we never want to give
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up any kind of tough shot we want to guard every shot every
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position make it as
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difficult because in their mind that's making it difficult and
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being tough it's not
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that we're just allowing shots it's just that we're allowing
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our lower percentage
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SPEAKER_01: shots or
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or shots that are are yielding lower values to us and that's
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where i think the
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shift has come is that in the past we valued every shot as
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being equal based upon
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open somewhat open or not open and you're still attempting to
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contest those kinds
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of shots however you're sometimes saying to somebody i'm going
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to allow you to take
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this shot rather than this shot because the second shot is a
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higher value shot so
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SPEAKER_01: that big who may be sitting in the paint,
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he's not going to run out and give up the potential for that
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guy with the ball to
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SPEAKER_01: get to the basket and score.
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And it's not a being tough or not being tough or giving up
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shots or not giving up shots.
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It's what shots do we want to allow while still giving some
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sort of contest to it
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SPEAKER_01: or get to it to some degree.
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SPEAKER_01: But we can't over the course of a game.
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SPEAKER_01: I feel like the that we're going to contest every shot.
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People are thinking more about the battle than they are
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thinking about the war.
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over the course of a game we're talking about x amount of shots
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it's i'm playing
12:53
the numbers here to to make you take the toughest shots over
12:56
the course of that
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game rather than each one being its own the most important
13:02
thing and two with the
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zone something else that i was thinking was coaches are looking
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for something else
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to throw in at least sometimes the only other option other than
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man is you can't
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SPEAKER_01: play another man you're not going to teach them you know
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the pressure defense and like our secondary defense is going to
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be pack line that
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is just not going to work so what zone are you going to choose
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and this is one
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where i feel like you can almost get away sometimes with doing
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something like this
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because it relies so much on your man principles have you i
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mean if you agree with
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that it goes in line with some of the stuff that you're already
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teaching right so
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watching the film on our zone sometimes was a stroke because
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synergy will label it
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SPEAKER_00: as a man
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Being able to do something that you guys are familiar with,
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you're not starting at ground zero.
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SPEAKER_01: You're not having to shift their thinking entirely.
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SPEAKER_01: But on the flip side of that,
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SPEAKER_01: the advantage is some coaches might think,
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SPEAKER_01: well,
13:49
SPEAKER_01: then why bother with it if it doesn't really look anything different?
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SPEAKER_01: But it does look different.
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And that's where the look that now the offense has to,
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they have to make different decisions.
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SPEAKER_01: There are people standing in different places.
13:59
Now it's a decision-based change,
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not just a look as in we're standing in different places.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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14:34
SPEAKER_01: For those listening,
14:35
SPEAKER_01: we've come to the film session portion here,
14:37
SPEAKER_01: and I've linked that down in the show notes.
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SPEAKER_01: So be sure to go back and check that when you have some time.
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SPEAKER_01: Coach,
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SPEAKER_01: I'm going to let you kind of take it away from here,
14:45
SPEAKER_01: and I'll run the film,
14:46
SPEAKER_01: and you tell me where to go.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: I got just a couple clips of some transition stuff,
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SPEAKER_00: different coverages in the zone,
14:53
SPEAKER_00: just so you can see a little bit of everything.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: So this is some transition stuff as far as
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Just how do you look at the gaps that you have,
15:01
SPEAKER_00: the natural gaps in the gap,
15:03
SPEAKER_00: and then you see your far guy over here passing off cutters,
15:07
SPEAKER_00: our middle guy staying low,
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SPEAKER_00: just find the next guy,
15:10
SPEAKER_00: find the next guy.
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SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times,
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SPEAKER_00: like with the zone offenses,
15:15
SPEAKER_00: guys will come to you versus you having to find guys.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: This was a –
15:22
SPEAKER_00: This is the Lawn Barnell Classic here at Swanee.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: This is against a typical just three-out, two-in look against zone.
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SPEAKER_00: And what's unique to this,
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SPEAKER_00: if you want to play this one back,
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SPEAKER_00: Coach,
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SPEAKER_00: whenever they get a three-out look,
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SPEAKER_00: So you can pause it right here.
15:41
We'll have our wing take the high post so our five,
15:44
our middle guy can stay low.
15:46
And that's something that isn't really as hard in the moment as
15:49
what you would feel
15:50
like because once teams kind of get set up in their zone
15:53
offense with this
15:54
SPEAKER_00: three-out look,
15:55
Typically,
15:56
it's just going to be like the wings and the top guy will exchange.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: They'll X out the big guys.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: And you're kind of in this lineup.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: And it looks like a man because you're just passing off guys.
16:06
And then when the ball would go in here,
16:08
our wings slow close out and takes it.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Our middle guy stays low.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: And we're just matched up, staying with cutters.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And we're just telling that whoever their big guy is to go one-on-one is
16:20
from 15 feet or attached to cutters and just something we
16:24
repped in practice was
16:25
SPEAKER_00: just like,
16:25
SPEAKER_00: make them shoot over the top,
16:26
SPEAKER_00: make them shoot over the top,
16:27
SPEAKER_00: over the top.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: So they're not getting around.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: That's when you get your, your, your, your fouling.
16:32
That's when they're getting layups,
16:34
make them shoot over the top of high hands.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: We have natural box out responsibilities.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: And so as you can see that pass it out.
16:43
Now we're just in scramble mode with the,
16:45
with the shot clock ticking down.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And at this point,
16:49
SPEAKER_00: we just tell our guys,
16:50
SPEAKER_00: you're just flying around and having some energy to you.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Here's kind of a similar deal.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: They get kind of the three-out look.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Your wing takes the high post.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Keep them in front.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Natural gaps there.
17:02
And now I'm pretty sure this is where we just kind of stayed
17:05
with our matchups.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And,
17:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
17:08
SPEAKER_00: with the zone offense,
17:09
SPEAKER_00: they just kind of stood and we're watching from that standpoint.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: So there's your...
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Take this back.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a ball screen runner play.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: I think everybody...
17:21
SPEAKER_00: kind of has something with this in their zone playbook.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: We go under.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: So there's no hedge.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: There's no kind of help for that ball screen.
17:33
We don't want our other top guy to come over and help because
17:37
that ball screen
17:38
SPEAKER_00: really is used to get two on the ball and you're kicking it.
17:41
And now you kind of have an advantage on the opposite side
17:44
where we take our other
17:44
SPEAKER_00: top guy and say,
17:45
SPEAKER_00: you're just with the next pass.
17:47
It's on the guy guarding the ball to get around the screen and
17:50
see our far wing
17:52
SPEAKER_00: pointing to take the next guy.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And we basically, we air to the basket.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: So we have two guys that are low because there's a guy under the basket.
18:02
The high post catch is there because our top guy is not taking
18:05
away the high post.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And we essentially are just,
18:08
SPEAKER_00: I never really said leave the guy open,
18:09
SPEAKER_00: but it was like,
18:10
SPEAKER_00: we're going to take away that high post catch to the high low dump off.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: That's where you get in trouble.
18:17
Like this shot,
18:18
if he makes 20 of these shots,
18:20
it's still only 40 points,
18:21
right?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully he can score more than 40 points.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: We kind of slow close out there, just box out the guy underneath.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you kind of live with those results.
18:33
So here's the transition,
18:35
you know,
18:35
clogging gaps,
18:36
building a wall,
18:37
flying out to three.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: So this may be a new thing.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: So you can take that back.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: We stopped teaching typical chopping closeouts.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: We just talked about just a sprint to a stop to take away the three.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: And if they drive it, we have natural gaps in the zone.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: So you kind of see everybody collapse.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: But then you kind of fan out.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: You find your matchups.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Ball screen, you're on your own.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: The other top guys with the next pass.
19:03
Take away the three,
19:05
the top guy bumps the other guy down,
19:07
and then you box out from there.
19:12
Any zone that you play,
19:14
rebounding is always going to be just an effort thing.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be a part of the struggle of playing zone.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: They're five-man, a monster inside.
19:28
But,
19:28
like,
19:28
he shot some threes,
19:29
but he wasn't the threat on the floor from three.
19:31
So when he caught it kind of in the middle of the floor,
19:34
we just told our guys to fan out.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Our middle guy slow close out.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: And then the middle catch,
19:41
SPEAKER_00: like you're staying in front,
19:42
SPEAKER_00: making sure of the top,
19:43
SPEAKER_00: you see our middle guy kind of drop back under the rim.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: Our top guys are finding the three-pointer.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Those inside-out threes will kill your zone.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: The inside-out threes will kill your zone.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: So we tell our top guys,
19:54
SPEAKER_00: When the ball goes inside, you've got to find shooters on the outside.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: You can see the guy guarding the skip.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: He was a preferred shooter for them.
20:02
He's almost outside three guarding that guy because we would
20:05
rather have this shot
20:07
that's contested that they're taking now over any kind of skip
20:11
or kick out,
20:12
SPEAKER_00: catch and shoot three.
20:14
And so you kind of see the natural responsibilities for box
20:17
outs because you are
20:18
SPEAKER_00: matched up out of it.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: I think this is another clip where they get inside off of a ball screen.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: So ball screen coming, kind of getting organized.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: See our wings are high on the opposite side.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: figuring it out on the backside.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Ball screen comes up.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: He's on an island on his own.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: And that dribble up three,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
20:41
SPEAKER_00: obviously we,
20:42
SPEAKER_00: as a preferred shooter,
20:44
SPEAKER_00: we can make an adjustment to go over that,
20:46
SPEAKER_00: but they got to hit one or two,
20:47
SPEAKER_00: right?
20:48
Like you don't want to just like start chasing over that
20:50
because if you start going
20:52
SPEAKER_00: over that ball screen and you're getting hit by it,
20:54
SPEAKER_00: those,
20:55
SPEAKER_00: the drives will kill you in zone two.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: If they're getting those paint touches.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:58
mainly just like keeping them in front and then just contestant
21:01
like crazy on the outside.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Again, that's numbers driven, right?
21:04
SPEAKER_01: We're guarding off.
21:05
We're living with off the dribble three pointers saying those
21:10
are hurting us less
21:12
than if they get to the paint and now we're scrambling and
21:15
they're spraying and now
21:16
SPEAKER_01: we're getting inside out threes.
21:17
I would say that the way the zone has been designed kind of
21:22
throughout the time
21:24
SPEAKER_00: that I've been a part of it,
21:25
SPEAKER_00: it's been more numbers driven the more and more we played it.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that's just like, who are you playing?
21:31
Like,
21:31
if they got a guy who's just a knockdown sniper,
21:33
you got to do something different,
21:34
right?
21:35
SPEAKER_00: There's ways you can adjust it.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: There's ways you can adjust it.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: you can play it.
21:38
I think the longer you play it,
21:40
the better your guys get at it,
21:41
the more you can do with it.
21:42
So like if you're going to install this thing and they've never
21:45
done it before,
21:46
you got to simplify some stuff and then like almost stack onto
21:49
it as you go.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: The best year we had with the zone,
21:53
SPEAKER_00: 21-22,
21:54
SPEAKER_00: we had seven seniors that have been playing it for three years.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: They knew what to do.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: They knew the basics of it.
22:00
they've been stacking on it for years and then once once we got
22:05
to that point we we
22:06
did a lot of good stuff with it it was uh definitely mainly
22:09
numbers driven from
22:11
just because of the way the game has changed in the last even
22:16
eight ten years so
22:20
here's another transition clip we want our top guy to stop the
22:23
ball as fast as we
22:23
SPEAKER_00: can
22:26
SPEAKER_00: There's your other fan out,
22:27
SPEAKER_00: middle catch going under,
22:28
SPEAKER_00: get a contest,
22:30
SPEAKER_00: trying to keep the ball in front.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: You can take that back.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: So this is a tough close out here.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So there was a kick to the wing and our bottom guy
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I passed him off to the top guy and kind of got back to the corner.
22:47
Another option is he can just stay and then our top guy rotates
22:51
back down.
22:52
The zone allowed us to be really big because we had guys who
22:56
could play top and bottom.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: We could put different lineups in as far as
23:00
SPEAKER_00: If you have guys who can play both top and bottom,
23:02
SPEAKER_00: you can play pretty much any lineup you need regarding,
23:05
SPEAKER_00: you know,
23:06
SPEAKER_00: scouting or height or speed or whatever you're looking for.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: But this is a – we didn't,
23:11
SPEAKER_00: you know,
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I think I said the words figure it out so many times because –
23:17
you don't want to over script it because now they're they're
23:20
overthinking it and
23:21
now they're slow whereas like there's so many right options but
23:25
the only wrong
23:26
option is for you guys to be slow and this this is a good clip
23:30
of just like they
23:31
pass it off they make the decision the top guy's decisive the
23:35
bottom guy figures it
23:36
out and like there's no close out you're just flying by um
23:39
because you want to take
23:40
SPEAKER_00: away the three
23:42
SPEAKER_00: So here's just a 2-2-1 back to it just to burn some clock.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: They get across a 22, 21 the clock.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: High post catch right away.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Our wing took it.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: So our bottom guy took it, and he's just one-on-one from inside.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: And you kind of see just everybody clogs the middle.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: At this point, they've got, what, 12, 14 on the clock to make a play.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: And then from that point, you're just scramble mode.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: And that's something that we would practice, right?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: It's just like,
24:13
SPEAKER_00: you get out of alignment,
24:15
SPEAKER_00: you stay matched up,
24:17
SPEAKER_00: you kind of know who the guys are on the other team.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: And then like, you practice figuring it out.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: It's figuring it out as a skill that you have to work on.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: So we did a lot of
24:26
disadvantage drills with it um obviously i would love to have a
24:30
perfect world where
24:31
the zone just like you're matched up perfectly every time every
24:34
time but i think
24:35
once the guys understood that like oh like it's supposed to be
24:38
messy then it like
24:40
it starts to click a little bit more with them when when they
24:43
understand that like
24:44
it's not it's not supposed to be perfect that's an adjustment
24:47
on the coaching side
24:48
SPEAKER_00: of things it's just like
24:49
as a coach you want x y and z to go a b and c and and if it
24:54
doesn't happen this way
24:55
then like we're all out of sync where it's like let's let's
24:57
create some chaos and
24:59
let's operate in a mess and then if it works out we're good and
25:03
if it doesn't we've
25:04
been practicing this that's that's kind of the the basis of it
25:08
and and there's so
25:09
SPEAKER_00: many other things you can do with it the best thing we did was
25:13
SPEAKER_00: simplified it more and simplified it more.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And then when you can play man with zone, your zone gets better.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: When you can play zone with man, your man gets better, I think.
25:20
And just being able to have something you can switch up that's
25:25
not completely
25:26
SPEAKER_00: different is something that has helped us.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to let this play as I ask this.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: What did you find yourself saying a lot of?
25:35
SPEAKER_01: I would guess that it's like under on ball screens.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I would guess that it is bump when somebody,
25:43
two people come together or a guy starts to move out of an area
25:46
and now that's your
25:47
SPEAKER_01: guy or,
25:48
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:48
SPEAKER_01: not exchanging top and bottom all the time.
25:51
But what other things did were teams doing that you frequently
25:56
then had to account for?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: I found myself saying stay a lot, especially on those middle catches.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: So high post catch, short corner catch.
26:09
stay it wasn't like a call but it was something that was the
26:13
guy started to say it
26:14
you started to say it and it's like you're just staying with
26:16
the guy you're next to
26:18
and it just simplified a lot of um you know so it's your stay
26:22
stay stay so now like
26:24
no one's trying to like pass off stuff you're not over
26:26
complicating it you're
26:27
SPEAKER_00: staying with the guy you're next to um and it turns into you know
26:32
It turned into a man,
26:33
but,
26:33
like,
26:33
at this point,
26:34
they're in their zone offense.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: And so on the inside catch, it was just stay.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, the middle guy, stay low, stay low.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Cutter, the outside guys are staying with cutters.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: I found myself saying just –
26:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, the wall you're trying to build to keep them out of the paint.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: So you're yelling gaps or, you know, next guy, pass them off.
27:01
But,
27:01
you know,
27:02
under,
27:02
especially for the team to set a bunch of ball screens under.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you're going to yell box out almost every time a shot goes up.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: I think I think stay.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And then and then for the top guys,
27:12
SPEAKER_00: you're like,
27:12
SPEAKER_00: find the next guy,
27:13
SPEAKER_00: find the next guy,
27:14
SPEAKER_00: find the next guy.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I think,
27:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
27:18
SPEAKER_00: any kind of catch like what just happened,
27:20
SPEAKER_00: the five man catches it inside three.
27:23
You don't want that guy to turn into the QB where he's just
27:28
like diamond guys,
27:29
this back door.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: And so we worked a lot on.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of the transition of when you're yelling stay,
27:37
SPEAKER_00: it stays a zone,
27:39
SPEAKER_00: but it's also your man-to-man that you are also running in the same game.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And so it turns into your man-to-man defense naturally.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: But you don't want to tell the guys,
27:51
SPEAKER_00: oh,
27:51
SPEAKER_00: when this happens,
27:51
SPEAKER_00: you're doing this and this and this.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: You just want to yell, stay, pass them off, and then yell under there.
27:59
At this point,
27:59
you're just keep them in front,
28:01
keep them in front,
28:03
and then you're boxing out.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to overcomplicate it,
28:05
but it really isn't as complicated as what you would think a
28:08
matchup zone would be.
28:11
It's just something you have to constantly work on and
28:14
constantly simplify because
28:16
SPEAKER_00: it's going to be really easy for your guys to –
28:19
SPEAKER_00: To understand it.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: So I think that,
28:23
SPEAKER_00: you know,
28:24
the word stay was used also in context of whenever guys got out
28:28
of out of like,
28:30
SPEAKER_00: you know,
28:31
SPEAKER_00: off rotation,
28:32
SPEAKER_00: guys got mismatched.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: It was almost the middle guy's job to just yell, stay.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: And then he just kind of takes who's left.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: So now we're kind of like, we're just following cutters.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: We're in a man.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: They're 15, 16, 17 seconds into their zone offense.
28:49
And I think best case scenario is when you're playing
28:51
man-to-man defense against a
28:52
SPEAKER_00: team running a zone offense,
28:54
SPEAKER_00: just because it's not as intricate.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: You just got to guard dudes at that point.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting that you say that because we ran something similar.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: We had the same thing.
29:03
I didn't use the term stay,
29:04
but we actually went to man like I know a lot of teams do.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: And typically it was because the ball was thrown to the middle.
29:10
I found myself saying or matching up more so when the ball is
29:14
thrown to the middle
29:15
SPEAKER_01: or thrown to like a short corner.
29:17
I think that's primarily because that's typically how teams try
29:19
to beat zones.
29:21
They'll get it to the middle is what they're looking to do
29:23
through a path through
29:24
SPEAKER_01: like a big guy.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: And then they're doing that through the short corner.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: And that's where the ball gets to the middle.
29:28
And I found that most offenses,
29:30
once it gets there,
29:31
that's what the coach told them to do.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: But oftentimes there hasn't been instruction past that.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: And so that's where you typically get zones.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: If they get it to the middle there,
29:40
SPEAKER_01: if you stay,
29:41
SPEAKER_01: the offense sometimes will just freeze out there.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Or he just like tries to make a play off the bounce.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: It now turns into a one-on-one scenario.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, at 15 feet.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: And so they don't have a head start.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: They're not getting downhill.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: You're going to have,
29:57
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:57
SPEAKER_00: some teams will put,
29:58
I think every team in our league at some point has put their
30:01
best guard at the high post.
30:03
Kind of our mindset behind that was we're not going to do
30:06
anything different
30:06
because they're going to have a guard at 15 feet and we're
30:10
going to have a bigger
30:11
SPEAKER_00: guy on them.
30:12
inside three and so like as if we can keep him in front he's
30:16
got to shoot something
30:16
over the top instead of him getting around or finding some kind
30:20
of kick out three
30:21
it's not uncommon for zones like this to ball goes in and we
30:25
kind of try to do what
30:26
you did where you just you go man and you just call man you
30:29
know I think it
30:30
surprised me more if when I was just like we're staying in zone
30:34
we're just going to
30:35
SPEAKER_00: stay with our matchups and guys naturally would just like
30:39
switch cuts and as long as they were matched up I didn't really
30:43
care about the
30:43
matchups as long as we weren't getting backdoored or whatever
30:47
and so it almost
30:48
became a switching man to man from that spot and I think like
30:52
it's also something
30:52
too if you have the time to scout and you know what team every
30:56
you know every team
30:57
SPEAKER_00: that we play on our schedule does something
30:59
unique to them as far as ball screens or divers or some kind of
31:03
action and so you
31:04
learn how to guard that action and once that action's done and
31:07
you've guarded it
31:08
you just got to guard the guy that has the ball at that point
31:11
you've called it this
31:12
and i'm going to label it this but it's a match-up zone you
31:16
haven't called this a
31:17
SPEAKER_01: 2-3 match-up zone or a 1-3-1 or a 3-2 and i noticed even from the film
31:22
SPEAKER_01: It truly is a, there isn't an alignment necessarily.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: I know that it kind of most of the time started like a two,
31:28
SPEAKER_01: three zone,
31:29
SPEAKER_01: but as soon as the offense started going,
31:32
SPEAKER_01: trying to go one,
31:33
SPEAKER_01: three,
31:33
SPEAKER_01: one against it,
31:34
SPEAKER_01: which is what every offense does against the two,
31:36
SPEAKER_01: three zone,
31:36
SPEAKER_01: then it immediately became something that looked like a,
31:40
SPEAKER_01: actually it was like a three,
31:41
SPEAKER_01: one,
31:42
SPEAKER_01: one zone is the way that it looked in that.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:46
I would,
31:47
I would almost tailor it as a four out one end zone,
31:51
if that makes sense.
31:52
And you,
31:53
and you,
31:53
the way you break it down is in a matter of a two,
31:56
three.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: So like you have like two,
31:58
SPEAKER_00: three principles,
31:59
SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
32:00
SPEAKER_00: we've,
32:00
we've done stuff for like the wings have like followed baseline
32:04
cutters all the way
32:05
SPEAKER_00: through when we had that,
32:07
SPEAKER_00: that older group and they've been playing it for a while and
32:09
SPEAKER_00: The wings could like switch sides and stayed with cutters that way.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: So it's not necessarily a,
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I teach it as a two,
32:16
SPEAKER_00: three,
32:16
SPEAKER_00: but it really is like a four out one in shifting kind of what you said.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: Like if they come down in a one guard front and they got two wings,
32:25
SPEAKER_00: it's going to look like a three,
32:26
SPEAKER_00: two or three,
32:27
SPEAKER_00: one,
32:27
SPEAKER_00: one,
32:27
SPEAKER_00: depending on if there's a guy in the high posts.
32:29
We had a guy on our staff call it umbrella defense because it
32:33
was four with one in
32:34
the middle there and the adjustment to be made against those
32:37
that are shooting threes.
32:38
And that's where I think we need to get past the anytime
32:40
somebody mentions zone,
32:42
people think of this defense where a defense is sitting back
32:45
and you're just
32:46
SPEAKER_01: allowing shots from the outside.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: And that's not how a lot of the modern zones are being taught.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: So.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
32:51
SPEAKER_01: it gives them,
32:51
SPEAKER_01: like we said before,
32:52
just gives the offense a different look and can be a little bit
32:54
more confusing to
32:55
them and just makes them make different decisions that they're
32:58
not always.
32:58
I don't know coaches that are spending a ton of time on zone
33:01
offense unless that's
33:02
SPEAKER_01: what the defense is playing like across the board in their league.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: So probably not at the higher levels.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: OK,
33:08
SPEAKER_01: typically after a show like this,
33:10
I have several coaches who reach out with questions about
33:12
something they saw.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Where can they connect with you and ask all of those questions?
33:16
SPEAKER_01: The what ifs that we all love.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: What ifs?
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Email me.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: My email is joshua.brown at covenant.edu.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: That's Coach Josh Brown from Covenant College.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you coming on the show.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.