Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Ace Brown | Trail Magic and Peak Performance, Mountain Running and Community Spirit

Transcript

Ace Brown | Trail Magic and Peak Performance, Mountain Running and Community Spirit · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to the Steep Stuff podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lawy Yellow, and today we have a very special episode.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: We're going to be joined today by Ace Brown.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: If you're local to the Colorado Springs area, this guy needs no introduction.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: He is an absolute killer.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: But Ace is so much more than that.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: He's a big part of our community.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: He just started the Cut the Cheese Run Club, which is a brand new run club specific to the Colorado Springs area.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: If you are in Woodland Park, colorado Springs or really anywhere in the front range, go ahead and check that out on Strava the Cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: In addition, ace is also a graphic designer, a footwear specialist and, did I say, absolute killer.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: He is so fast on the trails we get into all kinds of fun stuff.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I think you guys are really going to enjoy this one.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Most importantly, ace is just a really good dude.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: You know I left this conversation changed more than any episode that I think I've ever recorded so far.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I walked away just wanting to participate more in my community, wanting to be a better person.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I think that was the effect that Ace just had on me.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Just a really good dude.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I think you guys are going to really enjoy this one.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Go ahead and check it out.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Ace Brown, the Cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: You went to SCAD right.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, savannah College of Art and Design, I originally went for illustration and switched majors.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I ended up switching to graphic design simply because I think there's more to be done with it in the world.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Illustration is such a weird specific niche and through that met Patrick Reagan, who's a.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Hoka athlete.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: He was my coach for four years.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: That's SCAD for cross country.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: He's got such an interesting story He'd be a fun guy to bring on here actually.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, hell yeah, but some of the most interesting elements of that were kind of coming together.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: He was a major player in where I'm at today.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: He's an ultra runner.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: He's the kind of guy he can run all day and not complain a bit.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: He wants to go as long as you can possibly let him Does.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: He's like long, flat, horrific.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: The human metronome is what they kind of referred to him as.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: After a while I thought that was my trajectory.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: For a long time I didn't realize that there were other things out there.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: If I wanted to run trails, which there aren't much of in Savannah Georgia, I had to run canals and alleys and that kind of thing.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I thought that I was going to have to run ultras all my life.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I don't really want to do that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: So far, I know.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: But it was fun because I got to be on trails and I just wanted to do that so badly.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting to me because that was one of the questions I was going to ask you is I knew you went to scat.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I knew you were a Florida boy which we'll get into a little bit later, because I'm a Florida boy too.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: You grow up in sea level.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: It's flat.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: There's swampy humidity alligators.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Then we find you here.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You're in Colorado with a sweet tree tattoo on your arm.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: You're like this mountain guy and you're out there crushing these sub-ultra classic mountain races, would you say.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: He's like the kind of that catalyst, that kind of bridges that gap between who aces as the college athlete to the mountain runner today.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I think he really introduced me to the world of trail running.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: A lot of it, I think, also came from I've lived kind of all over the place.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I was born in Wisconsin.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: I lived in West Virginia for a while after that which is a massive difference, oh my goodness and then Florida.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: All three of those had such different cultures.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: But I was rooted by my grandmother.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: On my dad's side I was living in the mountains of North Carolina in a little town called Waynesville.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Being in the Smoky Mountains was just such a treasure as a young person.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: It was cool and the mountains are big and it's impressive and stuff.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: But I wasn't able to independently go explore that and be a part of this whole amazing outdoor universe.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And as I got older and more experienced as an athlete, I started realizing oh, I don't have to just hike, I can run here, why not?
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And then I can see more.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And the roots of that kind of in combination with what I saw Patrick doing, opened this whole new kind of door and it sort of culminated in this one really special run that to this day is like I didn't realize how special it really was until later, but it was on the way back from let's see National Cross Country Championships in Lexington, kentucky, and I think it would have been 2018.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: And we were driving it was just Patrick and I in his little van driving back and we were trying to make it all in one day and we were falling asleep, but anyway, halfway through we stopped by Asheville, north Carolina, where Aaron Saft, who owned his own store and I think still may, footrx Asheville.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: He's a big trail and ultra guy and he was the coach of Morgan Elliott, who's now living in Breckenridge, an incredible athlete himself.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, he's an animal.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: The connection comes from Morgan and Patrick.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Both went to Slippery Rock University.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Okay that makes sense, and they knew each other.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about anything, and on the way home we stopped in Asheville and linked up with Morgan, who was living there at the time, and Aaron, and so it was just the four of us and we went on this night run in the mountains, in the snow, and probably didn't start until eight o'clock at night, that's so cool and when you get, you know, three ultra runners together and then a guy like me who has no idea what they're doing.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: they dragged me 17 miles through the snow in the middle of the night, you know, eating gummy worms, and you know I got back from that run just absolutely obliterated, but it was the most incredible experience with some of the most incredible athletes.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like what an introduction.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I mean Pat Reagan is a legend of the game and Morgan Elliott he's been around a long time as well and he's you know I think he's in the process now especially now that he's with Meryl like he's in the process of hitting his own strides and sending in the sport.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: So it's incredible, like what a cool way to be shown.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: You know, absolutely.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Have you explored to like much around that North Carolina area?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Not as much as I'd like.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Those mountains are very different from here.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: You would like quickly?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: learned so much more technical.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I just did.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I went out last year I did the quest for the crest.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did the 25k distance.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: But they also have a VK like a 10k.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I think Joe still has the record at that race.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I want to go back and race it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: But really cool, 50k is ridiculously hard.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I know Morgan's got the record at it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just amazing mountains.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Mount Mitchell is really cool.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, that really inspired me too.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Morgan Elliott I think he still has the course record on the Mount Mitchell challenge.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: He's the only person that's ever gone Well, I know, for a quest.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: He's the only person that's ever gone under six hours, which to be on that course.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I am amazed.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: It was a really hard race.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: It's so technical, absolutely, it's a whole other level out there.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: We're, I think, spoiled by our mostly technical, well, mostly flowy, I guess, especially in the springs.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God, Compared to, yeah, compared to other parts of Colorado.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm always amazed when you go to places you know, even if you're around, like the collegiates, for instance like a lot more rocks, a lot more technical, I mean, you know, still not as technical compared to other places in the country, but for what we have here it's.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I mean I think we've got some of the best trails in the country in my opinion.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: It's part of what ended up landing me here, to be honest, and I still know nothing about nothing.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I'm relatively young to the sport itself, like I'm still kind of discovering where I fit in and what's even out there and what's available, like what are people doing, who's who?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I think some people might see the way that I run and think like, oh, this guy's been doing it a long time.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And it's like the truth is is I was a steeple chaser four years ago that had no idea that subaltra mountain running even existed, wow.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: And for me it all just came from the passion of wanting to be outside and explore and be in the mountains and I love going fast, but that's not why I do it, not even close.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: So it's just interesting for me because you, to me, like represent you're one of the like the next incoming class of these just straight killers Like I mean, I think I've only maybe you know I'm extremely hard worker, I work my ass off and I see guys like you and I'm just like, wow, like you just have this just naturally talented, and it's just so interesting to me.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So, like to see guys like you come into the sports kind of like blows my mind and it's very interesting to see.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Like the next generation, if you will.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, earlier we talked to like Ben, talked about like Ben Townsend.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like we have in the spring, just this whole class of you guys 30 year olds that are just right on the rise you know, there's a massive amount of potential in this sport, I think, and it's growing super quickly.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I can't tell at first in looking at it, I can't tell if it's growing super fast or if I'm just learning about it.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, super fast, Like last year this existed 10 years ago, for example last year was like your first USATF race, right.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Or it was yeah.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: National Champs race.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: That's Tuna P.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yes what about that one.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: What an experience, perhaps the most stacked race I've ever seen, aside from most recently, like Pikes Peak Ascent with Golden Trail series.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I mean that has been a real gift to the sport.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Just the Golden Trail series in general.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: But Son of B Scramble again, like I got there not knowing really anybody.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I knew a few names, mostly just the people from around Colorado that I've seen and raced before.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: But you know, I got on that starting line and had no idea what I was in for.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And now I go back and look at the photos of the starting line I'm like, oh my God, there's, there's me, and just these incredible athletes.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Like everybody on the starting line is just an absolute beast.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, dude, it's an honor to be able to be on starting lines like that and terrifying to not know what you're in for.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I guess, and I'll preface this, a scout or your 12th American 12th over all 10th.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: American.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an amazing.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I mean like and I know I know you're on the start list for snowbird this year I didn't want to give it away.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Figured with something we'll talk about a little bit later, but we can get into it now, sure.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I love the Cirque series, so I'm going to be racing.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be going after the pro podium this year, so I'll get all the races, except I get married the weekend of snowbirds, so I'm not going to be there.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: That's a good excuse.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: This is a good excuse.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: But yeah, dude, that that in its own right is going to be a crazy race this year because we don't really know who's shown up, who's not.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Like I've kind of looked at the start list so far.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great course and fits you, I feel like knowing as much as I know about you and what you're good at, I feel like that fits you know kind of everything you're good at to the tee.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: So admittedly I was really excited when I saw snowbird and Cirque series just in general.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Again, another absolute gem for our sport Big time, big time.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Only thing I would change is I'd have more in Colorado to be, honest, I love the races in Utah.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I get it, it's a Utah event, but my goodness I want to do them all.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: They all look amazing.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited I just had a previous episode I had Nick Tucson and he's a bolder guy.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: He did the whole series last year and one of the things that it's funny.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: You say that you know Colorado needs to have more.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I agree with that and I wonder why.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: But the one thing he said was that out of all the races he went to, a basin was by far the most stacked, Like anybody, like it's the deepest town pool in the entire country by far, which is pretty wild.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: It says a lot about the people in our community.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I'd say, when I came out here, you know, I thought of it this way Actors go to Hollywood, mountain runners go to Colorado.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: It's true, it's true.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: It's just what it was.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's necessarily true, but it seems to be true so far.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: It's all ended up here, like during the.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Now you came during the pandemic as well.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Right Did yeah same.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a wild time.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I hadn't planned to move here.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I had never been to Colorado, even I had dreamed about seeing if I could create a career as a trail runner, and not knowing what that actually meant or looked like.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, what better to put myself in a place where there's an abundance of that and accessibility to the mountains?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And so when COVID hit and I got laid off for my job in Savannah, I was working at a fleet fee doing marketing and special event coordination and I had a lot of tight knits in the community and it was sad to see that go.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I've missed my Savannah community, but happy to be in the mountains for sure.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Regardless, I ended up driving out here with like a trunk full of running shoes and my camping gear, and what I expected to be a couple of weeks of checking out Colorado and then driving back home turned into like three and a half months of me living out of my tent and crashing on people's floors and making connections with all these incredible athletes throughout the state, and eventually I was like why go home?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know might as well, stay Exactly so I had no reason to go back.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So I set myself up the best I could and I was decided front range that I could train year round and had better accessibility to, you know, getting out or seeing family.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: So here I am.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: What a story man.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I guess it's pretty similar to me, just not the not the camping aspect, which I really admire that you came out and did a bunch of camp.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: That's pretty sweet, it's easy to romanticize, but the truth of it was it was the hardest thing I've ever done.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I mean sure.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: It was lonely and, you know, scary.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: It was like every night it was where am I going to sleep?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: What am I going to eat?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: You?
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: know it's interesting, like I've had, you're the second person now of three episodes on this podcast where their origin story was built basically in.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Like their mountain running origin story was built post pandemic or during the pandemic.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, through this very difficult time, you know a lot of times you're alone.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: you know this guy in the other and you cut, merge out of the other side this fully formed, different type of person.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: That is just very, you know, I mean for you and for Nick and for other people, it was just really interesting to see, like, what they've accomplished in the sport since then.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: So 2020 served as like a beautiful catalyst in a lot of ways.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I got lucky.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Not a lot of people did it was.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: There were a lot of people suffering during that time, for sure.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: And you know my parents both own their own businesses and you know that's a scary thing.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: You know when everything is closed, and my father's also a graphic designer.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: He owns his own studio and primarily he does things like branding and brand maintenance and during that time, of course, nobody's in business, nobody's opening new businesses.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: So how do you stay afloat?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: You know people like him and people like my mother who own their own fitness studios.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: You know what do you do in that situation?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Now, people like me I was, you know, laid off, so I was making more money than I ever had been making in my life.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I had the opportunity to do things like this and transform my life into what I wanted, because I wasn't locked down anywhere, but a lot of people didn't man.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I realized how lucky I am and it was a gift and the most difficult gift I've ever been given, but you know I'm grateful for it.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: You seem very, very grateful, very, yeah, no, I agree, I agree.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So 2023 season I mean, like a lot of times I like to get into seasons.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Talk about you know what you did last year going into this year.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Past few years, you've been on a tear.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: You've absolutely dismantled a basin.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: One of these days, you're going to get the dub.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I'm really upset.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I missed that race last year.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to be there.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: So my coaches are Eli and Tabor, which you had a chance to race against.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so want to talk about 2023?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: .
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Sure sure, oh my gosh Again.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: What a ripper of a course.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love that race, just in general it's.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I look forward to it probably more than anything else in my season.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It really is exactly what I want to be doing and exactly what I want to see more of.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: You know that that relatively short distance, kind of really technical high terrain diversity- it's incredible.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: It really, really is, and I eventually kind of see myself I want to create more opportunities like that in the US.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what that looks like, but if somebody else doesn't do it, by golly I'm going to.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: That's exactly how I thought about, like podcasts like this and stuff like that.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I think we need.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I sit on ultra.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I get really bored at work a lot and I'll sit on ultra, sign up and be like is there anything?
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: That's like a, you know, a 10 to 15 K race that's got two to 3000 feet of vertical.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: You know that's going to give me.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm looking for right.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Not a lot in Colorado and I don't know why it's.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's the ski resorts, I'm not sure.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Incredibly untapped potential.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: For sure, as to your point going into that race, again I was on a starting line with.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: You know some people I knew, of course you know you see Eli and Tabor, and you know incredible women, incredible men, but again, I was meeting some of the most talented athletes in the US on the starting line for the first time ever, not knowing that they were going to absolutely destroy me.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: You got destroyed at that race, not like physically.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: You took a serious fall Both, yes.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, I got.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I got destroyed both on the podium and also physically, absolutely.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: You still got what.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Fourth place.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I was fourth, it did amazing and it's and it's funny, you know, I ran faster.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: The second well, in 2023 than I did in 2022.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: You got 22 seconds.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Second, and like my goodness it's it's incredible how stacked these races are getting and the interest that they're bringing.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I mean they speak for themselves.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I mean the races are captured, 500 people and 500 people show up.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: One of the cool things too is, I mean, we know how we stack up against trail runners, but the Nordic skiers of the world enter and we see their fitness levels and sure, they're not really racing and a lot they're.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: They're training for Nordic skiing, right, you know, and they show up and they throw it out.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: And these guys like Sam Hendry, you know they're fast as shit man and it's very interesting to see a lot of like people from crossover sports kind of enter.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons we have so much talent in the Colorado side is because our skiing scene is so big.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: You know a lot of people are trying to find something to do in the off season.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of these backcountry skiers or skimo athletes are super fit and you know, enter the chat they were as like.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like the 100 mile, 50 K, a lot of these longer ultra distances are a little less approachable Whereas these, like mountain classics, are so approachable.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: That's why everybody you know is jumping in and trying to find something to do Right, right, right and Julian creates.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I think Julian Carr just creates such a cool, just a cool scene.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It's like a big party afterwards and I'm, like I said, I keep coming back to this.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to see what it's all about.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Because it's it's, you know, and you've been around the scene long enough now, where you've done a bunch of different types of races, you've seen different like cultures.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a subculture in a lot of ways of like the mountain running scene where, yeah, it tracks super top tier talents, but it's, it's.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's removed from the sole Ultra scene.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not the Golden Trail series, it's something completely different, which I like in a lot of ways.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: There's, I think, a beauty to it being only a few races in person, but it is a series, at the very least.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: At the same time, I want to see so many more.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I want races like that to become more available in the US, and I think there is a demand for it Big time, big time.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: It's just a matter of putting that kind of thing together, I mean, and the weird thing about it is, I think right now there's this over obsession with the ultra distance, which I totally get.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's super inclusive.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: You can get a much wider range of people being competitive at it and actually able to, you know, complete it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: But it the thing about the sub ultra thing is these races sometimes are so short that you can't really make as much money off of it, and I'm wondering how that plays, you know, in industry, above all of that, and of course there's still certain demands.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: You still need footwear and certain kind of gear.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just so much thought about it's very smart to bring in the economics of it, and I think you're, I think you're right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I mean you look at, like a Cirque series race, you're getting what I think it's like $89 entry fee, something like that.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: It's not bad.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 500 runners right you know you're basically You're capped at that.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: That's your metric.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: And then you know you've got you, basically you got your income statement and you're not, you're not chin off everything plus a lot of volunteers, so you don't have a ton of overhead Right, whereas with these you know some of these ultra races I mean, dude like Candice Bird, it's probably a millionaire now from these 240 mile races, right yeah.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I, I don't know.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the permitting looks like either, or the cost of the permitting Right I'd have to talk to.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I'd be interested because this is something I've pondered for a while.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Like outside of starting a podcast, I have long wanted to start a race and I yeah every time I'm on like Longs Ranch Road.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Or every time I'm on some of these different places in the Springs.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god like how cool of a mountain race.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Could we make this, you know?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: absolutely.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's, there's a lot and there's a lot of spots for it.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: So you've probably heard of Cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Enter Cut the Cheese Run.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Club.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, so You're probably aware of Ute and Tootin Trail series as well.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: That was a project that Dean Abel originally kind of put together back during COVID and it was the COVID winter challenge and, and what a cool thing to be doing.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of potential for that.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: That kind of shorter distance and getting more people involved, especially in the Springs area, and and when I set out to create Cut the Cheese Run Club it was.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: It was this idea of More like embracing all the different sides of my interest, you know, bringing graphic design into it and bringing you know, wanting to host community events and Getting people together.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: But also this idea of, like what happens if we do these kind of fun Underground, shorter distance style mountain races?
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Are people gonna love it?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Is it gonna Dwindle?
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: What's it gonna be?
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a social experiment.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I love it so far.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I personally didn't get a chance to participate in the first race because I'm coming off an injury, but I do plan to finish the rest of the series.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah and for those of you out there I know we have most of our listeners now or Springs related or Colorado related.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Guys, check it out.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Cut the Cheese Run Club, that ace put together.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Dude, your marketing is so like we're like where the idea of this come from.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Is this like a piggyback off of Youton to?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: do.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: It's a couple of things In.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: It started with this drawing I did of a knife through a block of cheese.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Were you just doodling or like yeah, yeah absolutely, and I Think anybody who knows me well knows that I am a bit notorious for my flatulence.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's what I eat or just like.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: That's the way I'm designed.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I fart and and there's this interesting metaphor of you know, let it rip.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: That's that's come out of that, and and it's expressing this much more philosophical idea of you know, be yourself, act in the way that you see Best for you, give your best.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And and it's turned Into this much deeper metaphor.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: It's not just like this hey, have fun with your life.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: It's also give your best, cut the cheese, let it rip, so to speak.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So the whole goal is to be able to Empower athletes through this kind of comical idea of don't take yourself too seriously, like this, this sport, ultimately, at the end of the day, that that's what it is.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: It's it's a sport.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It's it's meant to be the most unprofessional of professional sports ever.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we get to play, have fun in the mountains.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, what could be better than that?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people can take themselves a little Too seriously and get caught up in this whole idea of, okay, I need to do my best and perform my best, and it's like, well, yeah, cool, and if that's how you want to do it and you're happy with that, rock on.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: But you know, for me again, going back to how I got into this, it came from this desire to Explore my surroundings and connect with really interesting people and see new places and go to new places, and that, I find, is where I see the most beauty in the sport.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: So that is so interesting to me if I'm able to use cut the cheese run club to bring people together and Create this sense of community, which is a whole another conversation, but I Think that's where we gain our strength.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: If we want this kind of sub ultra community to get off the ground, it begins by coming together and creating something with it, and you know You're a perfect example of this with this new podcast and cut the cheese run club.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I think fits that really well and let's collect advice.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, man.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: That's why I was so happy.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I had so many reasons to have you on, but the fact that we have cut the cheese out now, you know, and you basically just launched it, you know, we're only few months in yeah then you know what a better time to discuss it and kind of go from there.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: So we already, you already put out the second course.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Second course.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Is red rocks Correct?
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, yep, and traditionally it's.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I'm doing things a little bit different and and I might be ruffling feathers with this, but and you know, we're all just trying to figure it out.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I want to have fun with it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: At the very first part, I mean it's cut the cheese.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: It's a fart joke like let's, let's, let's have fun with this.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But traditionally it's been four courses over a period of about two months, a new course every two weeks, with the last one finishing in Garden of the Gods, which super, super fun In my experience.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: You know, garden of the Gods is cool and stuff, but it's it's full of tourists and Everybody knows it.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I wanted to try to introduce something a little bit different.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: So, depending on when this goes out, this might be the first that anyone hears of it.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: The final course will be an Austin Bluffs open space.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, which I?
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: I've seen massive, beautiful trail work going on in the last.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I've never been, I've never gone over that and and I hear that quite often a lot of people.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I mean I think it's immensely overlooked.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of obsession, I think, with Palmer Park and Austin Bluffs, kind of I feel like it gets forgotten, but it's been one of my go-to favorites over the last year or so.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: They've done some amazing work in there and I'm really, really excited to be able to share the new course there.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: We're going to be Collaborating with Colorado running company, who I'm now currently working with as well.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: We'll be starting there.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: It's gonna have a group run going on on March 30th at 8 am.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: This will be out before then.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: So perfect, yeah, definitely, hey, cool, cool, cool Cool.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: So we're gonna have a couple of vendors in the store, we're gonna do raffles, hopefully have some demo shoes if people want to try things.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: But Let me rewind for a moment when, when the Ute and Tute and Trail series was going on a few years ago and Dean and I were trying to get things organized, it was.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: It was sort of a way for people to have some competition during the height of COVID, when nobody could really do anything and it was the middle of winter and everybody just wanted to get out and run and have a reason to.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: And we always wanted to do a group run of some sort.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: But you know, the whole point of doing a virtual event is that you don't have to be with other people.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: You know, we were trying to stay healthy.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So now that we're kind of out of that, I'm trying to emphasize this idea of let's get together, let's run together.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So we're gonna do a course preview run out of Colorado running company and and You're welcome to lay down your fastest time.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Please do if you want.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: But this is a chance to kind of get to know the course, hopefully meet some new people in the community and yeah, yeah well, tute, rose and I will 100% be there, so looking forward to it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: So it's so interesting to me because you, I love, I love that you're, you've got this like RD idea, you're putting together these really sweet courses.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like this might be the first step, in my opinion.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I just laughing because.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I'm always like, every time I'm on blodrick peak, I'm like how, how sick would it be if we had, like this, some race going up here?
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going back there and I'm like people would die, and that's part of the fun, though, you know you can't save everybody.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: But no, I just love.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: So far I've really enjoyed your course selections like just I appreciate that.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: A plus selections like the first one and the canton, like like shine, came in perfect where everybody loves to go.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's some really wild plans for the summer that I really want to share, but I'm gonna be keeping to myself for a little bit now.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Do it, do it yeah.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: But I want to try some things that nobody's ever really done and Hopefully put together some interesting challenges and perhaps even potential for world records, I know.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: So stay, stay tuned It'll.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It'll be interesting, depending on where this all goes.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm excited.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Guys, check out.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Cut the cheese run club Please, if you're a local to the Springs area.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: It's on Strava, it's on Instagram.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Dude aces graphic design.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I mean you're, it's easy to see your background and graphic design definitely comes through because it is so cool Like some of your designs are just so amazing.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So I have a question for you, yeah, yeah, so before we were kind of we were talking about you know, lay down your best time.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: We're talking a little bit about competition.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I kind of etched on the competition.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now I'm friends with, I know how I am with competition.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I'm friends with a lot of people that Are very competitive.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: In the sport there is a lot of competition.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: You are, in my opinion, springs wise, one of the best in the game in the Colorado Springs.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: What is your theory on competition?
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You don't seem to me like.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: You seem very reserved, you seem laid back, you seem relaxed about it, you seem confident, sure, um, what is your take on competition?
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I think there's something really, really beautiful about it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, I think you're absolutely right.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe sometimes I'm too laid back about competition Because, honestly, I don't really care.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Um, I you know, races make up such a small percentage of what I do and probably what most athletes actually do, especially in the world of um running.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: We're training 365 days a year racing, I don't know.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: 10 maybe uh.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So you know, my competition is my friends and you know, if we get to go out there and push each other and see the Incredible things that one another can do, we can gain inspiration from that.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Um, it kind of goes back to this idea that I feel like we're An underground sport still and we're we're trying to build this thing together and we're ultimately all in the same boat.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: So when I see my competition have a great day, that's a win for me just as much as it is for them, and I, I love being able to celebrate that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Um, it's.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: It's something that doesn't necessarily make things harder for me or I lose sleep over.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Of course, I love winning races, but, uh, I like to celebrate a win in any way, and sometimes that isn't winning a race, sometimes it's just showing up, being there and giving your best, um, and if that's me or if that's somebody else, sweet Um.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, though, at the same time, you know, if you're trying to make a career out of something like this, you got to win races, yeah.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: So you know there's something to be said there, but it's like a fine line.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: But that, that take, that mentality is what I love to see.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I mean that that, to me, is that's the future of our sport and I'm so excited to hear, like, when you say things like that, um, just the sportsmanship and just the confidence and just the way you approach it, that is what I would love to see out of everybody.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: you know, hey, that, that that excites me now I'll add to that actually if you don't mind, I I'd say you know Part of that confidence.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: As you say, it could just be me just being a dumbass and not knowing anything.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Everybody's guy like the confidence is good.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: That's, that's what gets you, you know, podium and a basin.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: That's what gets you, you know.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: The thing is is I'm like I said, I'm still so new to this sport that I don't know what.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, and you know.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's another strength.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I think you know, sometimes you can plan for races way too much and and have Okay, this is what I'm gonna do, this is who I'm gonna stick with, and I know this person's gonna do this and I know this person's gonna do that, and it's like you can formulate and make all this plan, but then when things go wrong, you get lost and you get in your head about it.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: So there, there's Kind of an advantage that I have is not knowing anybody, or not knowing what I'm doing and getting to these start lines with these incredible athletes and not knowing where I'm quote unquote it's supposed to fit in goad for it.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I can run more, based on More, up to my full potential, because I'm not worried about what anybody else is doing.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So, um, Dude, I love it.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: What is your?
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: What is your training like?
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Do you have a coach, or you coached by anybody, or you just not?
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: currently I've been.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to just kind of figure things out for myself for a while and I'm that's probably not the smartest thing long term, but, um, I've enjoyed the freedom of it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: It's allowed me to Be able to explore in a lot of ways that are.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: You know, my training is pretty loose.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I see, I think it's perfectly structured.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: I see you every now and there, like you'll you throw in workouts, like you, your stuff is, yeah, I mean yeah, listen, dude, none of us know what's going on, we're all just trying to figure it out.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: You know, some people have a little more structure than others, but at the end of the day, it's all none of us, though.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I'll admit I I haven't done a long run in years, really, um, I you know if I'm, and part of that is I'm not doing races that are that long.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I think, obviously, there's an incredible value of long runs, and I'm no scientist, I'm no sport scientist, and and I'd probably be condemned by several coaches for saying something like that but it hasn't seemed to make A massive difference in my ability to perform on race day.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I think what has, though, is is listening to my body, um, and I think that's something that not a lot of athletes have the freedom, or at least feel like they have the freedom, to do.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Now, when you have a very structured training program, I think it can be really, really successful.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Though, when you have days where you're just feeling really, really beat and you need to adjust, well, okay, well, then you should have the freedom to yeah, if you have a certain workout that you really need to hit really really well and you want to, well, then you should be able to do that.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, and and you know, good coaches are willing to be flexible, of course and but there's also and I'm not saying this is me, but there's also like you're to piggyback off that um, you know I'm not saying I've done this, but I'll certainly feel like, okay, I have to.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like garbage.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Do I push through this and do this workout, or do I take it upon myself to dial it back?
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: And you feel almost that like pressure.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying Whereas without a coach, you do have that freedom and I do You're forced to listen to yourself.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Which can be a really hard thing to do, but I think you become very, very in tune with your body at a certain point.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Like you said, what's the point of pushing through a workout when you know you're not going to be able to get out of it what you're looking to?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: And mountain running is such a different kind of training from traditional track or cross-country or road racing.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Based on your terrain, your body is going to feel very, very different ways after very, very different runs.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: For example, if I go on a 12 mile run and I'm climbing 4,000 feet and descending 4,000 feet, that compared to a road 12 mile run.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: You feel a lot different.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you are.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: You're absolutely going to feel different and you're going to need a different amount of time to recover or different types of effort.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: After that.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: It's also, and again, I don't know what.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know here, but I don't know many coaches who specialize in sub-ultra mountain racing.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Not many, I mean mine do, because they race that Exactly, and that's why I chose them.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Other than being amazing people, yes, they have a very specific blueprint.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: They've gotten to the top, so I chose them to help me get to the top.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: But that's an outlier.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: There aren't many of them floating around.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: It's rare.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I agree, dude, I agree.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: So more in your 2024 season.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: So you're showing up to snowberg, we're ready, so we're going to do a race preview for snowberg.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Don't get too excited.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I got a surprise.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I'm dealing with a little Achilles injury at the moment, which might be a bigger deal than I originally thought I'm not sure yet I'm planning to get an MRI actually here pretty soon.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: But I've dealt with what I believe to be Achilles tendonitis for about five years and it comes in waves.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I'll have good times and bad times with it.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: So recently it's been plaguing me in a different way than usual.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I'll do it.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry 2023 was perfectly clear.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I was uninhibited, no pain.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And after my last race of 2023 was the backcountry wilderness half marathon in Highlands Ranch, where I got to race some incredible people David Roche and Ben Payne, Regardless.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: After that race, just something didn't quite feel right and I can't say if it's something that happened on that day or if it was just a certain effort or the shoes I wore.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I have a hunch that I may be dealing with a Haglund's deformity, which I recently learned about being a small bony growth on the back of the Calcanias, which is notorious for causing some Achilles issues.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: So I was really hoping because I follow you.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I've been following your struggle and I was hoping you were going to say to me yeah, I'm on the other side of it, feeling better, I'll be ready to go.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I thought I was.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I thought I was.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I've been biking almost exclusively for almost two months now and trying to maintain as much fitness as I can.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Of course that's difficult on the bike, it's a totally different thing, but it has been actually kind of fun to do something different, and it's been 20 years since I've given myself a break this long.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: It's not a bad thing, man it feels like so it might be a good thing, but I'm starting to kind of accept the truth that it might be a surgery situation If it isn't great.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: If it is great either way, I'm kind of just looking at okay, how can I get back to doing what I need to do as quickly as possible?
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not getting old, but I'm getting to an age where the years are becoming fewer and fewer.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: How old are?
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: you, I'll be 30 in November, which yeah, you're a kid man, I'm 33.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I feel like an ancient Sure, and that's the thing I don't want to get to 33, for example, and be like, oh shit, I should have taken care of this sooner.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree, I agree.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: It's easy to be able to be like no, it's fine, I'm just going to do exercises and ignore it, but I got to do something about this and there's a couple high profile guys doing stuff like that now that probably should have gotten and we could talk offline about who but that probably should have gotten surgery years ago and they're doing with it now and these are sponsored athletes and it's destroying their season.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: They're probably not going to be able to even race in 2024, which sucks.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I love your approach to it.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: You seem very relaxed, very calm.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: For me, being deep I shouldn't say deep deep into my early 30s, I don't know if I would be the same way.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: So I think that's I mean for you turning 30, you have so much time.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: You haven't even scratched your prime.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: So dude yeah you got all the time in the world.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Fingers crossed.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope to have some kind of season this year.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: You know, if it is a surgery situation, who knows what to expect.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: But I have been biking a lot.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm good or anything, but I might throw myself into a couple of mountain biking races.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Gopro Mountain Games is one of my favorite events of every year and they've got some pretty cool mountain bike races.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I have never gone, I'm supposed to race it this year.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do Don't miss it.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Did you ever do?
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Peppie's face off.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I've never done that one.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: It is directly after the 10K on the same day, and boy watching.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: That, though, is a gem.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: See, like my deal Absolutely insane.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: My deal is the steep stuff I love, pun intended.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But I love, you know, the steeper for me the better.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: That's where I seem to excel.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: The flatter stuff.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: You, you've 15, you know 5K guys.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: It's hard for me to keep up with that.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: But the steep stuff is where I can hang and it seems like Peppe's just seems like such a like a beautiful race.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: For that it's straight up the ski hill, down, straight up down.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just looks like a lot of fun.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: It's the epitome of that kind of European style, like it's a VK mixed with this whole new platform.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: It's a really cool thing.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: It's unique.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very cool.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: So, man, I'm really bummed to hear about the.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I hope, like I said, fingers crossed, we'll move on and you know, you'll be healthy before you know it.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is what's your take on sponsorship?
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: What's the like?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: What do you think on that?
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Because that's that's a lot of the reason why I want to get guys and gals on the map to help you build your profile, so you know people can.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Being a sponsored athlete has been the dream since I kind of set out on this mission.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of benefit to being a sponsored athlete, especially if that's what you want, of course.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: But I've seen so many different perspectives on it, you know, and at the same time I've seen people flourish and people have to, you know, still work two or three other jobs while being a sponsored athlete.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: So what I've come to see and learn is that you have to be one of the best in the industry, if not the world, to be able to, you know, live on just your sport.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: And you know, I'm kind of in an interesting spot where who's to say what my potential is, but it's hard to believe that I'll ever be at a sort of position where I'm living off of my sport exclusively.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: So I've been kind of exploring different ways that I can sort of do that in an indirect way.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I work in the run specialty industry, so I'm constantly working with brands, I'm constantly working with brand representatives, which connects me in a way to the community as a whole, and so I'll kind of see side by side, will take a step up and get into the policy, and no, I think that answers what you're asking, yeah.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Did you have another kind of angle you wanted to explore on there?
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I mean more, so like, yeah, I mean you got it, you got it, and I think that the answers are fine.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Now we can.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Is there any brands you've been thinking about, anybody you would like to approach, or I've worked as ambassadors but with plenty of brands before, and you know it has to be a genuine relationship.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: It has to be and I'm at this sort of interesting stage because of my history of my Achilles injury.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: It's like, especially with footwear, I've kind of reached this point where it's like I have to wear what doesn't break me.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: So, until I have that sorted out, I'm kind of, I think, limited to what doesn't hurt me.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know, once I get that sorted out, who knows, who knows?
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: I'm currently going to be running on the Solomon ambassador team and I can really get behind a lot of Solomon products.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: I think some of what they're doing is at the forefront of our sport in particular.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: They've got some incredibly exciting things coming.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: They've got some incredible athletes on their team and it's definitely a treasure to be a part of that.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: But that I work in the run specialty industry, like I am.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I consider myself an expert at fitting footwear for our sport and because of that, I know how to choose really, really healthy decisions and what ones that are ultimately going to leave me feeling better as an old person.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: So I can keep on doing this, because I want to do it as long as I can.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: So it's funny, you say that too, because, like I, so like for me.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, I run for sportiva and I love their shoes.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: You know, shout out to the mutant the prodigio just dropped, the prodigio I fucking love that shoe.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: so much, but I will say this too before I signed with sportiva, I was running a Hoka Tectons and I was still take this to the grave.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: That to me is will always be my favorite shoe.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: It's always been the I mean for.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: So I have like a flat fat foot so like it's like a paddle so and it just, for some reason, it just I don't know that shoe just fits my foot so much better than any other shoe I've ever worn, you know and it's a super shoe.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: It's got two plates in it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, Right, I will add it's.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: It's, I think, the most innovative and probably the most successful trail racer out there right now.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the, the, the parallel plates make such a difference and everybody knows, you know, when you start throwing carbon in a trail shoe it can get kind of hazardous.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: I mean that stuff's not very stable when you start getting on a you know even surface because of how responsive it is.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: So kudos to Hoka for smart design.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's a great shoe.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I haven't tried the version, the second version and I know the third version is coming out, but which real interesting.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Have you?
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Have you tried it, that built in?
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Gator is going to be.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Cool right.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I'm curious to see.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: People are, it seems like so far, kind of on the fence so like, oh, I'm going to love this, oh, I'm absolutely going to hate this.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I think it'll get a lot of star appeal because Wamsley Ward, something like that.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah For UTMB.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: You, you opened up a can of worms talking about footwear with with me working in the footwear.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: I know, I know.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: For sure, there's some cool things out there the catamount agile from Brooks which Is that the new?
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: like slimmer profile it is.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a sexy shoe, dude it is.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: It's, I think, very, very reminiscent of a Hoka shoe that I wish still existed the Evo Jaws, yes, yes, yeah, there's.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: There's some really cool things coming in the run specialty industry on the trail side, brooks has made a lot of moves, it seems.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I mean they're definitely between them.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: And Merrill, yeah, merrill too Goodness.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't personally tried any of the Merrill shoes.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Did you?
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: What did you wear for Sunopee?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: At Sunopee oh boy, that's a whole story.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I came out there with, I think, the Tecton X.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was just in the middle of signing my contract with Solomon and they hadn't sent me footwear yet, so I was trying to wear something from Solomon but all I had was this the pair of Pulsar Trail Pro Great shoe.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: The thing is is this course was an absolute swamp, and when it wasn't a swamp, it was snow, and I needed something that didn't have a lot of cushion to it and big, gnarly disgusting lugs.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: And both the shoes I brought had either too much cushion or not enough lug, and I was just going to be sliding all over the place.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: So at the very last second, morgan Elliott actually lent me a pair of the Skyfire II, which I think he wished he maybe that he wore.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: But what an incredible shoe from Merrill.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: There was a time when I could never imagine running, much less racing, in a Merrill shoe and turn the corner.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: They're making some of the most interesting and innovative shoes in the industry right now, and it's like well, I haven't checked them out.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, their social media game is awesome.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: There's so many, a ton of athletes now.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: And, of course, the Get FKT program was such a cool way of being able to bring on new athletes.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they got Mercedes and Morgan and somebody else, I don't remember who, but yeah, pretty sweet.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've made moves.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Dude, I think they have what they've got that Remy LaRue guy, I think his name is, who just jumped on the trail team.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: You could be right about that, I think.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I got to look into that, but I know I think you raced him out.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: If he did the up-down race, I believe I don't know, but that's my, that's my.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I've got this like depth of knowledge on this like sub-ultra scene.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I do tons of research and research, but on that topic I actually have an interesting question for you.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so you ran this Stampede 10K in Durango, right?
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yep.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: So this, this is interesting to me because there was someone else the very high profile that was signed up for that race that didn't show up.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Hmm, who it was?
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Jim Jim, yes, yeah.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I always thought I'm like wow, what did that do?
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Cause I I'm always on ultra sign up.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I'm looking around, I'm like wow, that would have been really sick to see a matchup between.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: That's actually why I went out there, Okay, Okay.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I saw that he was there the year before and I saw that he was signed up again and I was like, hmm, this tiny little mountain 10K in Durango, like you know it's, it's basically a fundraising, charity race.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: But you know, I saw that he showed up and I was like, wow, what a cool chance to be able to face off against one of the, you know, highest profile athletes in trail running.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: So fucking cool.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: And so the goal was to kind of go after his record time and just, you know, see what we could do.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Of course he didn't show up.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: He was just in the process of, I think, uh, setting up shop in Europe.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, I got out there and gave the best and didn't quite get his record.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I think the course was slightly different.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: They had built some new trails, but, um, you know, I think the highlight of that day in particular I was.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: I was running by a dad and his kid on the way down there.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I had it been like 400 meters from the finish line and I was flying by and I can't remember what I was wearing, but I might have had on something that said Hoka, I don't even remember.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: But either way, this little kid saw me running by and was like is that Jim?
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Of course I felt all special.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a fun little race.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Uh, if, if, uh, if anybody here is listening and hasn't done that one.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Ren's Stampede 10K is an absolute blast in Durango.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Go check it out, it's a lot of fun Hell yeah, now I put that up there as like I don't know.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: I saw it on there.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: It was like what, what could have been?
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Had Jim showed up?
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: That would have been sweet, it would have been very interesting.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Um, dude, he's, he's at the VK this year.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Are you ever thinking about doing broken arrow one of these years?
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe next year, you know?
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: the.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: The hope was to get out there this year and uh, you know, of course, like many people, I went to sign up on the morning of and by the time I was there even though it was 20 minutes after, you know, registration opened it was sold out and I applied for an elite entry, and I think so many people had that they just ran out of space.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Um, so I wasn't offered an elite entry, which you know.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Fine, I prefer to try to pay for races if I can.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: I like to support people doing cool things like that.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Um, it was a good thing.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: I originally thought, well, maybe I'll just go out there, do the 11K with the securities thing.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I'm hesitant to sign up for more.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want to.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't push it Exactly, but I'd absolutely love to be a part of something like that, though that's something I would love to see you do.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I'm so picky though I really am, and I'm probably too picky for my own good I really really love 10K to half marathon.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: You know, I start getting to 20, 25k and I'm like, I don't know, it's not that much longer.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: But, like you know, and the way I keep talking to people about it is, let's say, you get somebody running track and they're a really really good 1500 meter runner, well, why should they have to run the 10K or a 5K just to make a career out of that?
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: And like, I don't want to run 25Ks or 28Ks or marathons like, or 50Ks, why is that?
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: All that's available, you know, and 11K is cool, yeah, sweet, but there's a gap in what just generally tends to be available to mountain and trail racing in the US and I see now why you like Circuseries so much Absolutely.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: It hits that mark beautifully and the courses are still really really diverse and technically engaging.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, because and that's the thing like I had considered the broken arrow 11K and not just hit on broken arrow.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I think they put on amazing race.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: It's one of the best, most competitive races in the world at this point.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: The 11K maybe 2200 feet of it's not.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: It's not that much, it's more ski roads, I don't know Like to me it wasn't.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I ran the, so I was out there.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Last year I did run the 11K course just because I wanted to see what was all about, in case I was to come back to following year.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: It's OK.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Just wasn't sure.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I think for someone of your caliber the Circuseries races make the most sense, stuff like that, you know, or 23K.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: The only problem is the 23K.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: It's two.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: You know two loops or in, sometimes, one loop Last year was two loops.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it could be redundant, you know which is fine.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like there are a lot of gaps in this industry, which, for now, is a little frustrating, but at the same time it's like, oh, that's kind of exciting.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Great opportunities.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: What could we do?
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: And I've even had this vision, like, ok, the pike, speak ascent.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: What a cool, renowned event.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: And you know, some people may know, there's this underground idea of like the summit mile and it's basically just a one mile race that's run in laps at the summit house, essentially around in the parking lot, and like that's such a cool thing.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: You know it's mountain running, but 14000 feet above sea level it's insane Beyond that.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Like well, ok, the pike, speak ascent is a thing, why isn't the descent a thing?
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it would be an absolute, you know, logistical nightmare.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: But that's probably why it could be.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: It's still mountain running, and why not see the full potential?
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: We know who's the best climbers in the world are we got it?
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: We know who they are.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Who are the best descenders in the world?
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Let's find out who is who has the descent record?
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I do not know, and I'm sure someone knows, I'm going to lift that up after I wish I could say that I knew and I feel like at one time I did know I'd love to go for that record.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I love a good downhill.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Are you a better descender than a sender?
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I actually know one thing that I'm somewhat proud of.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I ran my unofficial 5K PR from the summit of Buckhorn yeah, down to Bear Creek Park.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: What'd you run?
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I ran a 1346.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck, dude.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that kind of turned a lot of heads and surprised myself, and that was in the middle of a training run.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: It was essentially a tempo effort and I was just like, well, that was cool, let's just keep going faster.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: I wonder how fast this 5K can be.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: And I hit 5K and it was like there it is.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: So it got me thinking whoa, these downhill races aren't.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Why aren't they more down?
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Everybody's so obsessed with uphill which is cool, I get it, I get it, I totally get it why isn't there more downhill?
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: That's still mountain running, that's still mountain racing and it's a huge element of it.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: You get people who are great descenders that can't descend.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: And you lose the race on the descent.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Exactly that's my problem.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: I'd love to have strictly downhill races, and I'm not talking about just slightly downhill, I'm talking about reverse VKs.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: I'd love to see something like that start emerging.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: That is so smart?
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I've never even.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: I guess it's because I'm so forward thinking with the ascent I love to see how fast I can get to the top of the mountain, which, yeah, totally cool.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: And then I don't know, I think, and the other thing too.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you obviously probably aren't this way, but I'm more risk averse in a lot of ways.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like okay, I'm going to take it a little bit easier on this technical descent.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: All right, best example, like Blodgett.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I'm always trying to catch your time on Blodgett.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: It's not easy to do, wow hey, I don't even know what it is.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I go with the St Francis.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's like 30.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: No, it's either, I can't remember.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: You're what above me.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: When your host knows more about you than they do.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: But you know what, dude?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: I'll turn around and I'll restart.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: I'll click my watch off and then start a whole another workout and just take it easy on the descent.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Just because, from a risk perspective, I was thinking about this the other day because I did Cameron Cohn last weekend and I was coming down Cameron Cohn and I was walking in a lot of sections Like it's icy, it's snowy, I'm like I'm really not going to try and kill myself right now because, it's got a whole season coming up, so it's almost like a risk reward factor.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: There's times the bomb and then there's times to just kind of take it easy, at least the way I swear I would.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: I knew going downhill.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I mean it can wreck your body if you're not careful.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: But I think that's one of the true tests of genuine athleticism.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, these incredible climbers.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: You get guys like, for example, remy Bane.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Everybody can agree he's an absolute monster climber, absolute monster climber.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: And he's a good descender as well.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Is he the best descender in the world?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: No, definitely not.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: But when you compare his descent to his climb, one of them might be a little better.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: I want to find out who the best descender in the world is.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Dude, I love it.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: We got to get manual moralysis.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: I've seen that name and I know a lot of people consider him to be one of the best in the world.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: I'd love to see you got to get him out on the horse, yeah like imagine strictly downhill races.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I mean the pike's peak marathon.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: You know, hey, if you want to run down pike's peak in a race setting, you got to do the pike's peak marathon.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: But who wants to?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I don't want to run a marathon.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's too far, I don't know, dude, that is such an interesting perspective.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: I never thought about that.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I hope you start RD in some of these.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Get some descent to Galen, because that would be really sweet.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned, cut the cheese yeah.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: Best descents, right.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's get into some questions.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Man, I'm very interested to see and understand who inspires you.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: My inspiration comes from all over the place.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: You know a little behind the scenes.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: James sent me these questions he always signs off with earlier and, man, I had such a hard time with it.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: I really did put some thinking into it and I think I'm most inspired by a variety of people, and some of them are the people who can run really, really fast and you just love to watch them go, seeing what they do.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's poetry in motion, so to speak, and that's really cool.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: I can gain a lot of inspiration from that.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: But I also gain a lot of inspiration from people who are, you know, some of the best in their sport, who also have to, you know, sustain themselves by working other jobs.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: You know there's the realistic life elements of these things, and as athletes, particularly in the sport, we have an entire other life.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Everybody does outside of what we do as athletes, and I love being able to see that side of it.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: So I'm inspired by people who share the other side of who they are and what they do, and that's actually part of what I brought in to Cut the Cheese Run Club as well.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Like I wanted to be able to share some stories Some of you may see, I put out articles at least once a month featuring an athlete and trying to kind of talk about the more realistic, the brutalized you know human element of the people behind the massive successes you see on race day.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: That really, really inspires me.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Recently I interviewed Brian Whitfield, incredible athlete and I think immensely underrated in our sport Big time.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: We're having him on.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: I got it.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Oh good, I got to message him Well that'll be a treasure.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: But you know he's a full-time teacher, he's a science teacher and you know what a cool thing is being able to work with kids and you would never know it.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, he goes up to these races just destroys Like being able to manage.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: You know working with kids, which cannot be an easy task with you know training at such a high level and competing on such competitive stages, like and just such a nice guy Absolutely Every time I've interacted with him.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Just genuinely nice dude.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: That type of person just in general really, really inspires me a lot, and both to be the best person I can on race day and, you know, at my day job.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: So I love that.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Dude, that's a really good answer and very thoughtful.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: And dude, to piggyback on Brian Woodfield, I yeah, he's one I am so excited to have on.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: I really want to get into his brain about his ascent this year, Like.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: I think there was a serious breakthrough.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely what a race Like top 10.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: I mean I put that as one of the most competitive races I've ever assembled on American soil, for sure.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: You know like that's crazy.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's get into the dumb questions.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Cool, All right.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: What's your, what's your, what's your take on Bigfoot bro?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: You got, you got you a Bigfoot believer.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: You fan Like.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: What do you think about that?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: You know it's hard to say for sure.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: It's hard to say for sure.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: I hate to doubt anything.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I've never seen him myself, but I think a lot of people would say that.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I just hope that he believes in me.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I, as a springs guy, you know like we've got so much, especially like Manitou, we have so much Bigfoot lore.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I have to ask this question to everybody, just because, like there's, there's gift shops dedicated to this dude, it's true.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I grew up in Florida, for, let's see, I lived there from 2006 till 2013.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: The Skunk Ape, that's right, yeah, which is a whole nother story.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: He's out there bro.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a think.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: Think Sasquatch mixed with Florida man, that's the Skunk Ape.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: You were Fort Myers, right, I was yeah.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, I was on the other side of the coast.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: I was on, like you know where Stewart is.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: That's where I grew up.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: It's a good place.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I miss Florida.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I haven't been.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: I went back a few months ago.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: It's like being on vacation now when you go back.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I'm grateful for that.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, fort Myers isn't necessarily the cultural hub of the United States, but it's nice beaches.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Well, the hurricane came through last year and destroyed everything.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: So sad, I think my parents haven't been able to enjoy the beach, and yet the tourists are still there full flock.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: So that's a bummer man, yeah.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: So, on a happier note, I forgot to ask you one serious question.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what is your sub-ulture mountain running goat?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Now, I know you're relatively new to the sport, but you've been doing this for a few years, you know.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: I have a hard time answering that one, and there's so many incredibly talented athletes and I think it's easy to again similar to your question of who inspires me.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's easy to be able to say you know the person who's the fastest.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: For me, it kind of goes beyond that and I'd love to be able to say there's a certain person that like really, really genuinely inspires me.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: But I think, and truly more than anything else, I'm inspired by the community of people who go out and just do crazy things, like there are groups of people I follow on Strava that you know, for example, the WTF marathons.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, which you're probably familiar with.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: I did it last year.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: The winter top of frozen marathon, like I saw yeah, it was like Dan Vega and Brent Staphanowicz and some of these other guys went out there and their goal, of course, is always to get to the summit.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Whether they actually will or not, who knows, but you know they made it to no name and got turned around by you know chest deep snow and like what a ridiculous thing to be doing.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely insane.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: But you know, guys like that that set out to do crazy stuff like that, knowing full well they're probably not going to make it Like that's so cool, that's the reason we're in the sport, it's a do shit like that Exactly.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: You got to be kind of crazy, and those guys embody that in so many ways.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Of course, there's the incredible athletes who have been and are still part of the trail team, which I think is an incredible organization and doing so much for our sport.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Being a part of that club is a real honor.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be a part of it.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: It puts all these incredible fish into one barrel for these brands to just be able to take their shots at, which I love.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for some of the best in the sport and for the people who are the future of the sport, look to the trail team.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something I meant to ask you about.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to dive a little bit deeper back into the trail team.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: It's amazing what Andy has been doing the first class with Christian Allen, so many just straight up killers Really really.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Then how is it constructed?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: There's the team itself and then there's a club.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think some people might I may have not been able to reap, I'd say, the full benefits of what the trail team is, but at the same time, it's such a young organization.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: I'm really, really excited to see what it becomes, especially over the next five years, for example.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: The entire goal of it is this collectivization of the upcoming athletes who are essentially going to be the future of this sport.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of them are crossover athletes.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Some are skiers in the winter, mountain runners in the summer.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: Whatever the club is essentially, Andy would define it as the sophomore class.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he'll talk more about that when you get him on here.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: They're basically the people who probably could have used the trail team a year or two ago, which serves an interesting purpose.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: We're able to be those fish in the barrel while also acting a bit as not mentors, but people that the newbies can reach out to Be like hey, how do I get into this?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: What races should I look for?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: How do I run downhill without dying?
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: The difficult part for now is that, because the organization is so young, if you're not in the bolder area where Andy's conducting most of what's happening, there's a little bit of a disconnect.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: Brian, who's also a part of the trail team club and I have been trying to do more with creating engagement with that sort of thing.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, man, we're just everybody's so busy.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: I know, I know I want to go out to all these runs.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: The problem?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: It's not, yeah, it's scheduling as a pain in the ass.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Man, exactly.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly Finding a good time for everybody and, even with cut the cheese, being able to get people together for these group runs is hard.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: Even on a weekend day at 8 am, it's like, hey, people have things to do.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: It's tough.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: We're kind of these isolated beings as it is.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: We got to get out of that, though.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: I really love what you're trying to do.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: We're stronger together.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: We really really are.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: There's so much value in community.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: That's Forgive me, I'm going back to it.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: I have to.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: No, no, no I agree.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: I really, truly believe in the community aspect.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: That was something that I had living in Savannah that I was so grateful for.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Savannah is the type of town where I was.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't have a car for five years living there.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Everything I needed, everything that I wanted, I could get to on my bicycle, which, yeah, that's great.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I knew everybody.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: You could go to any restaurant and I knew the guy behind the bar.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: I wasn't the guy spending time at bars, so to speak, but it was just that type of place, not even exclusive to the run communities, just everybody knew each other.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: It's not a small town, but having that sense of community, this tribe of people that everybody knew everybody in the community, was so incredibly valuable.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: The springs, I think, has the framework for that but because of its sprawling nature, hasn't really solidified something that exists.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: In the same way, my hope is to be able to create something that's more cohesive, that gives us an opportunity to grow what we do more.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Who's to say what that actually looks like or what it'll actually do?
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: if it'll even work, but we need it Big time.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: It makes a difference.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Projects like yours with this podcast, projects like Cut the Cheese Run Club, the starting, the building blocks of what that can be, I think.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: I feel so strongly about this.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: We need more community In Colorado Springs.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: I say this probably every time people talk to me about the sport is Colorado Springs.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: I always feel like it's so slept on.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: We've got Joe Gray walking around.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: We've got Matt Carpenter.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: We have some of the best that ever done it.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: We've got such a large group of people I mean, look at all the thousands of people that go on to do the incline every day.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: We just have such a large sprawling group of mountain runners, the trail runners to ultra runners.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: You name it.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like I don't know anybody.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy that you and I have only met once.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's wild.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we definitely.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's up to this generation to get more people together to fix this.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: I want to add to that as well.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Something that I've noticed is there are some clubs out there.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: There are groups of people doing things, which is wonderful.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: I noticed a lot of the time they seem to be linked with local stores or brands, which, yes, cool, that's awesome.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: Supporting local industry great Cool.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: At the same time, it creates a divide in people.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: Something that I hope to do with Cut the Cheese Run Club is keep it independent.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be linked to a certain brand or store entity.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: In that sense, it's hopefully more welcoming.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Everybody can feel like they can be a part of it.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: That's the hope.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Something that I've dealt with is, I know that likely when people think of me, they think oh yeah, that guy's too fast for me.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: I can't go be a part of this run.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: I hate that.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: I absolutely hate that more than anything else.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: That's not who I am.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: That's not who I want to be.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: That's not who I want Cut the Cheese Run Club to be.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: I want to create something that's very, very inclusive and welcoming.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: It's not about running fast as much as it is about coming together and celebrating one another and the cool things that we do For now, the athletes that I'm featuring on the articles that I've been writing have been some of the faster athletes in town.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Part of that is I'm trying to just get this thing off the ground by sharing these awesome success stories.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: I want to be able to dig more into the quote unquote, everyday people who are just going out there to do it because they love it.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: That's where the beauty of this sport is, I think, for me more than anything else.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because I would say this in a great sense as an elite I like to run with people.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Group runs are different, but on a normal basis I'm usually running with people of my caliber or above because I'm trying to get better, trying to improve.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: I don't come in contact with as many people that are just out there having fun.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like that almost the more time you spend with people just out there trying to have fun, I think it just makes the sport more fun in general and get to meet more people and it's a better community overall.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to go.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: I'm already signed up, dude, I'm stoked for the next group run.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's going to be great.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, all right, I don't want to keep you too long.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: I got one more question for you.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: What's your take on these aliens dude?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: Which ones?
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of them out there.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: My favorite is obviously from Uranus.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: I'm speaking as the founder of Cut the Cheese Run Club here.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: Simple as that.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll land on that Dude.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Let's get some plugs going.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: We want to plug your Instagram and Cut the Cheese as well.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, sure, go for it.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: Sure, if you like what are you going to do Shoutouts?
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Shoutouts like Instagram plugs.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Do you want to?
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I'll plug it then.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: All right guys, Check out Ace Brown on Instagram and I'll put this in the outro as well, and then Cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Also, shout out to Colorado Running Company.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'll get your shoes from Colorado Running Company in Colorado Springs and visit Ace, tell him hi.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: And yeah, guys, please go on Strava, check out Cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: We're trying to build a community here, so subscribe, come out to the group runs and hopefully we can get as many people out there as possible until we'll definitely have you on again.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: Until next time, everybody.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Ace Brown What'd you guys think I told you Ace was a badass, just a really good dude.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: Like I said in the intro, I walked away from this episode, really, really, wanting to participate more in my community and wanting to make a difference.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Just a couple of quick plugs Go ahead and check Ace out on Instagram at Ace Brown.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Also, check out his new project he's working on.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: It's called Cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: That's right, cut the Cheese Run Club.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: You can find it on Instagram.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: You're going to be blown away by some of the graphic design images that he's created.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: His background and graphic design is just so visible in the marketing.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: It's just really cool.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: It's very fun to follow along.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: So go ahead and check it out on Instagram as well as Strava, and if you're on the front range, specific to Colorado Springs, willam Park and really anywhere in the front range.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: Go ahead and check it out.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: He's got.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: If you could get a few more courses left in the Cut the Cheese Run Club Run series.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: It's a fun little race series that we're doing this winter and spring.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I know I'll be participating and I think you guys should too.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: In addition, any brands out there?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Ace is pretty much a free agent right now and we have to change that.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: This dude needs some sponsorship.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: If you're interested in looking for athletes out there, go ahead and hit up Ace Again.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: You can send him a direct message or an email on his Instagram.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Sure, he'd love to hear from you.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: So, guys, I hope you enjoyed this one.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: Everybody.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: Ace Brown.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: He will be back.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: We will definitely be having more with him on the podcast, so take care, everybody, until next time.