Latest / Hart & Hustle Podcast / How AI Is Revolutionizing Higher Education and Student Engagement
Transcript
- Efrain: We're back with another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. This time we're with Isaac in Arizona. How hot is it over there, Isaac? Isaac Abbs: ⁓ you know, it's gonna be a good, you know, hundred hundred degrees today with some, you know, uptick in humidity. So it's a little brutal out. It's a brutal out. Efrain: Yeah, y you can keep it as we talked about earlier, man. I was I've been able to not do Tucson, but I did ⁓ Phoenix, Arizona, and I will never tell anybody to go there. ⁓ especially in the middle of summertime. Like I Yeah. Isaac Abbs: It's this time of year. I mean, tell people to go there, just not this time of year, you know. Efrain: My ⁓ my best friend, I was just talking to her and she says, actually, if you come during the winter time, it's much better. But that's how they get you. It seems good until you come back around this type of weather and you realize this is not it. So is it a good winter? What is winter like for you guys? Isaac Abbs: There you go. Yeah. Fair. Fair. Yeah. You know, winter is, you know, low of, you know, upper fifties, lower sixties. it's nice. I mean, you know, that it we don't get the snow, but you know, forty-five minutes away up Mount Lemon, we get snow. So I mean we c we can get the snow if we want, but you can go visit it for a day and come back to nice seventy, seventy-five. So it's that's my kind of winter, right? I I grew up on the coast of California. did my first year and a half college in Maine. I don't need the snow. I don't want the snow. It's the re the reason I'm here, you know. I I don't mind the heat. ⁓ and we have A C. If there wasn't A C there'd be a problem, but you know, yeah. Efrain: Lord. I actually I didn't even tell you this when we started and we were just kind of sharing some stories. I realized how hot it was. ⁓ the first thing that I was able to experience when I went to Sedona and look at the Red Rocks is so we're pulling up and we see these ambulance and you know police out there and we think somebody just got injured, as what the police reported. And as we're walking back out, man, we see them actually transporting a body bag from the truck to the SUV. And that was the moment I'm like, ⁓ it gets super hot. Like People out here passing out and dying hot. ⁓ and then we were ⁓ one of those days we were driving and we see the ambulance pulled over at a bus stop hydrating someone. I'm like, ⁓ my God, like hearing some of these crazy stories, man, like you got to be safe when you go to Arizona. But what brought you to Arizona, Isaac? Like when we talk about these stories, this is not what brought you there, okay? Isaac Abbs: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it it's interesting. It's the University of Arizona is actually what brought me here. ⁓ it's my wife that kept me here. But ul ultimately, you know, I grew up on the coast in California in in the Monterey Bay area, so beautiful place, but You know, went left and went to college in Maine. So I went from the coast of California to Maine of all places. And you know, for many reasons, we'll discuss that just didn't end up being the place for me. And so I'd been to Arizona once. I'd came out here over an Easter weekend. I had a buddy who lived out here. So I came out here in high school, visited him, and I was like, that's where I want to be. Right. And it was April. It was nice. It was warm. It wasn't brutally hot, but warm. And so I came, you know, transferred to the University of Arizona and a couple buddies and I stuck around and I've now, man, I've been here longer than I've been anywhere else. And these are where my roots are now. And it's it's home. I love it. Efrain: And when you say your wife kept you there, did you meet your wife there in Arizona? Isaac Abbs: I met my wife here. She's born and raised here. Her family's all here. She made it very clear she has zero zero plans to go anywhere else. And so, you know, it's it's it's where we are. It's home, it's family, right? You know, she's Hispanic, so family's a big thing and she has a big one here. And so ⁓ I think that is Efrain: Wow. What what do you think she loves about Arizona? ⁓ Isaac Abbs: That is near and dear. You know, I've I've learned a lot about family through her and her family. You know, I mean I grew up with my immediate family, not so much of the extended family. And here it's it's everybody's the family, extended family and all. So I am not, no, no. So I'm I'm I'm yeah. Yeah. Efrain: And you're not Latino, right? What is your favorite? What okay, no worries. What is your favorite Latino dish? Isaac Abbs: I'm a big fan of the burrito. ⁓ I mean I like the tacos. We just had tacos here the other night and had everybody over for my my niece's thirtieth birthday. But ⁓ you know, I like a good carne asada burrito. That, you know, I keep it simple, but that's that's my jam. Efrain: Okay. I ⁓ I was able to visit Taco Bros. Do you guys have that around you too? Isaac Abbs: We have Taco Bell, but not Taco Bruce. Efrain: No, no, I I I did do Taco Bell and I I didn't go there for a while, man. I ended up getting a chicken chilupa and I was like, wow, these are these are actually really good. I haven't had one in a while. But we ended up at I at a Taco Bros and it was authentic tacos, man. You can see them making on the grills. And I you know, I can imagine you guys have a lot of those just authentic tacos. I don't have that in Orlando, so I can see why you go into that burrito taco space. It's kind of almost around you guys a lot. Isaac Abbs: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We do, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's we we have, I mean, Tucson's I think, you know, arguably the best Mexican food in the country. And so there is there's no shortage of of great places to get great Mexican food. So yeah. Yeah. My little one might like Taco Bell, but yeah, you know, when I want real Mexican food, Taco Bell's not where I'm going. Efrain: I love it, man. You know, my my favorite spot, and ⁓ this is a another thing that I wish I would have done. I didn't. I passed one, is I love to go to Chipotle wherever I travel. Chipotle is my my place. I came home after eating everything I did in Arizona, my wife cooking breakfast, all these things, and I went to Chipotle the next day. And I was like, ⁓ my god, this was the best meal I've had all week. Mind you, wife's cooking all that. I love Chipotle, man. I know it's not authentic Mexican food, but Isaac Abbs: Really? Okay. That's funny. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's legit. It's legit. It's legit. Yeah. Efrain: I love it. Yo, Isaac, what gets you into the space of higher ed though, man? Like you talked about you traveling from one side of the country to the other, you come back, and and then you stick with it. Why? Isaac Abbs: Yeah. Yeah, I I I didn't get you know, I I kinda backed into higher ed. I didn't get into higher ed for higher ed. I came back to higher ed for higher ed, you know, I kinda boomerang back but ultimately, you know, I started my career at the city of Tucson public sector work. ⁓ Efrain: Mm-hmm. Isaac Abbs: you know, kind of grew grew up a little there through the ranks. And then, you know, there was this opportunity for for a job that I think I aligned with my skills at Pima Community College. It was the director of business systems. And so that's really how I got into it. I got into higher ed more of the role that I was looking to get into more than the organization. And you know, stayed there for eight and a half years and really, really fell in love with with higher ed and what it what it does. ⁓ I don't know if I always thought really about what that meant until I think being part of the community college seeing and seeing how much education impacted and touched the lives of people in our community. And yeah, you know, when I, you know, I left higher ed for for three and a half years. And when I came back, that's what drew me back, the college's, you know, purpose. And that that really resonated with me. You know, there was I was a point where I think I discovered more of my why, and that very much aligned with that. Efrain: Mm. Yeah. What ⁓ what were you doing for those three years? Isaac Abbs: So I was I went back to public sector. I was my my my first role as a CIO was at ⁓ you miss a municipality ⁓ suburb of Tucson, the town of Mirana. And so I was running IT there, happened to coincide with the pandemic. So I think I was there a year before the pandemic and then for two years through the pandemic. And at that point in time, my former boss here at the college had had left, and so there was an opportunity to to go back. And it was really, you know, when I was talking about with my wife, ⁓ she She doesn't she she's not too impressed with what I do. ⁓ you know, I mean it she's just kind of like, hey, you Isaac does computer stuff. But it was cool, like when when you know I had this opportunity, she said, you know, do you do you think you'll be happy there? And I was like, okay, that was that was confidence that that that she cares. ⁓ but but it also was like, you know, it was the right, it was the right question, right? That's not usually the question someone asks when you're hey, I'm thinking about leaving a place. And it Efrain: Yeah. Isaac Abbs: hundred percent I was able to answer that with absolutely and it's it's because of what the college does for the community that we live in, the community that we raise our children in. So yeah, that was that was really important to me. Efrain: Shout out to the wise for always asking the hard questions. Right. Like I I always appreciate the the hard questions. Sometimes it may come across like doubt, but when you really think about it, it's because they they love you for, you know, sometimes they know us more than we know ourselves. They love us more sometimes than we may love ourselves. So it's it when they come from that, you know, perspective, it's truly because they care. And I can imagine, you know, she has what is your role today? Is it still CIO? Isaac Abbs: Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So so yeah, so I'm the chief information officer here at Pima Community College. So yeah, running all things IT, which in these days start turned into almost all things. You know, there's there's very little that we do at the college that doesn't interface with IT. So it it keeps me busy. Efrain: I Isaac, I gotta ask the question because you're in IT. Has AI disrupted or helped IT? Isaac Abbs: It i it man, it depends on who you ask. So so I'm I'm a big proponent. I think it is I mean, it is the next revolution. It is the next revolution we're in. It is going to fundamentally, I think, transform everything we do. And I think that includes the educational piece, you know, how we teach, how people learn. that's the part I think as a college, I think many colleges are in the same boat that we struggle with, right? How what we were and what we did has now been flipped on its head, and we have to figure out what that looks like. On the IT side, I it it's it's a game changer. ⁓ it's a game changer in the security aspects, what we're able to do and automate. ⁓ it's a game changer on our speed to development. ⁓ I think it allows, you know, I know there's this big fear of it's it's going to replace people. Efrain: Mm-hmm. Isaac Abbs: It's going to change what people do. ⁓ it allows me and it allows others to do more and do things we otherwise wouldn't do. So it's not something where I'm afraid of it's gonna take over the world and you know, replace people. I think it's going to be a massive augmentation to what people can and should do in focusing on those human aspects and the human elements that I think are sorely, sorely missing at times. Efrain: How many times do you feel like you gotta change someone's mindset on the way they believe about AI or C AI? Isaac Abbs: It's getting less so now. You know, you go back a few years ago and this was the worst thing in the world. And, you know, we took a deliberate approach to get people more and more comfortable. And I think that's worked, but there's still some some major detractors, and there's some major detractors in some key areas that we still have to win over. I think if we are going to get where we need to go, especially on the teaching and learning side. Yeah. Efrain: Are there classes being implemented around this at the community level? Isaac Abbs: It it's a it's a goal. So we have a you know, there's a goal, ⁓ Chancellor goal, cabinet goal of implementing AI, you know, into academic curriculum. It's really part of our full digital fluency and digital literacy framework. You know, you would think in today's world, you know, every what does every student have? They have a smartphone. And you would think that would translate into being able to navigate ⁓ a digital ecosystem. And that's not necessarily the case. And so as part of that that digital literacy build out, AI is being incorporated into that. Efrain: You see a space where and I don't know if it's already kind of implemented for you guys, where SMS becomes the way we communicate, ⁓ and retain some of our students by just kind of curating that that's you know, I think about, you know, your your Spotify and your Netflix, it's curated for you. I can imagine that we can start curating some messages around it. Isaac Abbs: Hundred. ⁓ Yeah. A hundred percent. Hundred percent. Yep. Right. I mean we have the data. We we don't lack the data. I think we lack the the use of data. And so perfect example of of SMS is one of our our first big AI wins is we partnered with the company to do that exact actual student outreach, student engagement, right? The the the the check in, how are you doing? Right. On a scale of one to five, how are you doing? And the student could say, you know, two, well what's going on? You know, I'm failing my, you know, my my Spanish class. Did you know here are the curated resources available to you. Here are the tutoring offerings. Here are that. Right. And it can be as simple as, you know, the student could say, I'm hungry. And great. Did you know we have these resources? We have the student Patrick, come visit us. We have the, you know, we got your back. and so that platform, though it's AI backed, the interaction with the student is all via text. Right. It's the meet them where they are. That's where our students are. They are on their phone. And so we have to, and I think we've done a good job over the last couple of years of you know changing a lot of our systems to to really engage with students where they're at, which is nine times out of ten on their phone. Efrain: Yeah, man. I love it. So a conversational AI tool, not that's replacing someone, be meeting them as you mentioned, where they're at twenty four seven. I can imagine different languages. So if someone has a question about something that they can get that answered, I think it's it's it's what's needed. I w we're still I can't stand when you go and maybe to a website and they give you still that chatbot that is very three answers and keeps you in that loop of things. But Isaac, you guys figured it out, man. I mean, you must be excited. Isaac Abbs: So yep. Hundred percent. Yep. Yep. Getting there. It is, it's very exciting. I don't think there's been a more exciting time to be in IT or to be in the role of the CIO. I mean, it's ⁓ if done right, it's game-changing opportunities. And you don't get this every time in a career, let alone, you know, this this type of revolution at this time. I mean, I I would argue this is probably similar but faster than when the internet became a thing and and people in IT were trying to figure out what would this mean to their organizations. Efrain: Mm. Isaac Abbs: Yeah, that's pretty cool. I do. I do. I I was I was having this conversation with my daughter the other day. We were driving in the car and ⁓ my wife's the Spotify one, she's the one that connects. I still just listen to radio. I why I don't know, but I just do. And you know Efrain: Isaac, you remember the iPods, how fast iPods went away? Like So, so Isaac Abbs: I think my daughter's like, Why don't you have other, you know, music in your car? And I like, I used to. I had this thing called an iPod and iPod and I was like, Yeah, before smartphones, you had this device that you put mus ⁓ you know, trying to explain the whole thing. So yeah, mm hmm. Yep. Efrain: Little fancy. We actually had a you know, put in the cassette that had a ox cord connected to it. ⁓ my god, the days, Isaac. Nah, man. I I do love how times have truly changed and we've been a part of it. Where do you think and what do you see technology doing moving forward? I can imagine you probably got your your thumb on the post on what's new. What what we expect to see in the higher ed space. Isaac Abbs: Right? Yeah. There you go. That was there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I think, you know, in in higher ed I think there's going to be a radical shift over the next few years in terms of how do we teach with the technology, specifically the AI, right? So in the past it was write the paper, and the paper was kind of the proof that you learned something. Well, that's gone. Like that that that was gone a couple of years ago, right? AI can write the paper. And so it's how do we evolve to ensure that there are learning outcomes. are being achieved no longer through the paper, but through other other means. And I think, you know, my hope is that it learns leads to more creativity, more hands-on, more expert you know, experiential learning where The proof isn't in the paper, the proof's in the actual product and what we what the person has done and you know trans translated those skills they've acquired into something. And so, but that's gonna take that's gonna take a while to evolve, right? So many, you know, teachers have taught a certain way for a long time and rightfully so, and now that is being challenged. And so it's gonna take a few years to get there, but You know, I'm confident we'll get there as an industry. ⁓ you know, and I think the the learner will be better off for it. I think they will be more prepared for the workforce. I think that's some of the biggest things we see as AI is going to automate and autonomize a lot of what has been entry-level work. Entry-level work is now going to move to a higher level order of work and it and require a higher level of skill. who's gonna close that gap. I mean higher ed's going to have to close that gap and and you know turn out students and learners that have those higher level skills to enter what will be a different workforce. ⁓ you know it's it's it's gonna be a big change. Efrain: I I really want to talk about your role as a CIO. I don't know that many know what that entails. And maybe there's someone right now thinking like, Hey man, that sounds very fancy. I know it's a C suite spot. What does it look like on a day to day basis, man, for those that are listening or watching? Isaac Abbs: Yeah. Yeah. Man. I you know, I think traditionally what it was, right? It was the role that oversaw IT. it's so much more than that today. I mean, I I find, you know, my role is really you know, the the the the the architect, if you will, for how an organization is going to use technology to make a difference, right? To fulfill its mission. ⁓ and that that's very loaded. There's a lot there. ⁓ I have to have my thumb on the pulse of what what we're doing across the board and then determine how do I think, you know, technology can best help us achieve those goals. And, you know, what you know, I'm working on our current our next two year strategic plan. And the beauty is, you know I've been back over four years now in this role, we're moving from less and less true what we could consider keeping the lights on IT. Like no one cares that we have to, you know, maintain internet. No one cares we have to maintain a network and servers and infrastructure. That's expected. That's like utility. and what I find is our work on that is less and less, and our work is turning more and more into business value. What are we doing to help the institution move forward? What are the technologies and applications that we are, you know, deploying that that students and faculty and staff touch and use on a daily basis to move the institution forward? And that is That's not where every IT shop is. A lot of IT shops are still kind of just they think the value's in keeping the lights on. And that's not what organizations need. They need people to, you know, help the help the business achieve their goals through the use of technology. And so I find my my work is is definitely more involved in that, on that lens. And it's it's become way more people centric than technology centric, which I think is the fascinating part. It's a people business. Efrain: Wow. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And do you feel like you're spending a lot more time on security and compliance nowadays with, as we mentioned, something like AI? Isaac Abbs: So Absolutely. That's the part that will unfortunately never go away and continues to have to be a priority. ⁓ you know, just as these tools enable us to do more, it will enable the bad guys to do more. And so, you know, we have to be we have to try to stay ahead of that as much as we can. We're never gonna be ahead of the bad guys. They're always gonna be ahead of us, but it's always trying to stay ahead and think through the mindset of an attacker and what they're gonna try to do and how are we going to continue to secure the institution and do all we can to protect the data that we're Efrain: Mm. Love this man. I love I'm I'm I'm learning so much about the IT CIO space. I actually used to work for an airline industry and I there was times people's like, you should definitely get into IT because I was the guy fixing every single thing around the room. And I just loved it. I just love that when I thought about IT, it's like fixing what's broken in almost in a sense. Like, you know, that's how I looked at it. ⁓ what made you even get into IT, man? Like, how did you find that this is your space? Isaac Abbs: Okay. There you go. Man, yeah, I you know, growing up, I would have never well, I mean, the space didn't even exist as as it does today, but I don't, you know, it's not the field I thought I would get into. But when I when I went off to college in Maine, I I took my first computer science class and was hooked. It was ⁓ Visual Basics Six, I think, learning to program and just recognizing like you could. building something from nothing that that did something, right? ⁓ what was fascinating to me. And, you know, ⁓ I took another class and was like, is this what I'm going to do? Is this what I want to do? And ⁓ that second class reinforced, that's what I wanted to do. And and so that was, you know, I I studied my undergraduate was a actually interdip interdisciplinary studies between computer science, math and Spanish. So kind of a a hodgepodge of things there. But Really, I I became fascinated with software development. And that's that's what got me into IT. My my first, you know, five and a half years was was doing that kind of work, software development. Then I gradually, you know, grew into a little bit of project management and then I got into IT leadership. And that's you know, that's where the bulk of my career has been. But I'm I'm a developer at heart. I still do development work. ⁓ I that's where I sometimes get too too into the weeds, but it's what I'm passionate about. And yeah. So I kind of just got into it by, you know, that that first class in college and and was hooked. Efrain: That's cool man. And I can imagine when you talk about development, it's not even it's even harder now when you have something like AI that you could just really almost develop whatever you want nowadays, maybe a Isaac Abbs: It's easier now because of AI. That's exactly what I've been doing. I've been developing, doing some stuff, and it's, you know, Claude has been my my co-pilot for sure, developing all that out. I mean, that's you know, you you can go from a creative idea to a deliverable so much faster. And that's the cool part. ⁓ yeah. Efrain: Yeah. Yeah. I had a conversation with my friend the other day. I said, Hey man, like I love that you'd created another app or another this, but how is that going to help your business today long term? Stop wasting your and he's like, You're right. I'm like, if you're not gonna use it, you're just wasting time at this point. There's so many great ideas, but it's like while we do have the resources, it's still the execution that we have to do. And I think that's where people get lost at. It's like, yo, it's there for you for sure. Isaac Abbs: Okay. Efrain: But it still takes the people, right? The person to go and execute. So when we think that AI's taking our jobs, that's just kind of proof in the pudding. Like, yeah, you can get there, but something has to continue to move that forward, right? And it's usually the human. Guys, continue to like, share, subscribe. More conversations with great leaders in your own backyard. You don't even know exist. I'm Ephraim. This is Isaac. Catch you in next one. Latis.