Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Matt Trewhella: The Population Crisis & Familial Suicide Of The West

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Matt Trewhella: The Population Crisis & Familial Suicide Of The West · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Friends, family and Christ, welcome.
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God bless you.
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Thanks for your prayers and support, sharing the podcast.
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We continue to grow thanks to God and you've got another great guest today, Pastor Matt
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Trewella, missionaries to the pre-born, defy tyrants, and mercy seat church.
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I want to first go there, actually, you know, show, go back and show missionaries to pre-born
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because we're going to talk about some concerning headlines about what's happening in, well,
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the battle over politics in America, the political ping pong and what's happening in our
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churches.
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Then defy tyrants.com, another site we'll get to, Matt is the author of Doctrine of the
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Lesser Magistrates, great book, it's picked up steam in the last several years, we'll
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ask him about that.
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And let's start with his church, mercy seat dot net, brother, thank you so much for your
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time today.
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Good to see you.
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Good to meet you.
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What's your David?
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Thank you.
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So let's talk about your church first, praise God, did you move into a new building,
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you bought a building, you've got a great place there, tell us about that and how it's
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going.
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It's in Hartland, Wisconsin, and, you know, I've been past during the same church for
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37 years, we never really wanted a building because unless you know, the Lord gave us one
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or we didn't want to be under a mortgage.
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I've sought too many churchmen over the years, get under a mortgage and they would change
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how they preached because they knew they needed X number of people sitting in the pews
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in order to pay that bill and we didn't want to come under that and we were fine meeting
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in ballrooms and don't tell something like that.
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And then lo and behold, during COVID, the Lord provided us a place at the embassy suites
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after we got kicked out of the county building because of COVID.
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We remained open, we never closed and I spoke about COVID numerous times in sermons over
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the next two years and lo and behold, what ended up happening, David, was Cousin COVID,
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we ended up with having money to just go purchase a church because we had so many people
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contact us and tell us, yeah, my church was closed for four months, eight months, it's
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still closed, shaved all our tithe money, we're not doing it in a tarch church because
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we closed and we want to give it to you because you were faithful to Christ.
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And so suddenly we had $600,000, which for us is like fainting money.
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Long story short, the Lord provided us with a 1910 national landmark building, beautiful
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structure.
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I had to put a boatload of work into it but we have plenty of good men in the church who
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are in the trades and others who have parts who just want to see things get fixed up.
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So now we have this building over in Heartland and we can't thank God enough for it.
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It's a great blessing and we're locked into a community now rather than moving about like
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nomads.
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I love the look of that and friends, you can see it right on the homepage of their MercySeat.net.
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This just looks like a beautiful, beautiful building.
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It reminds me of kind of like the old time churches before the corporate model took over the
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business model for the church and pastors became CEOs.
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And I know you have a lot to say about that.
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But by the way, did you see this new movie that's out, A Great Awakening?
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The story of Oh my goodness, what did you think about that?
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I thought it was very well done.
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It's an excellent film.
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I would encourage people to go see it if you haven't seen it while it's still available.
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It's always nice to see something like that on the big screen.
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George Woodfield's life is something that everybody should know about already.
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Yeah.
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And if you don't, this is a great starting point.
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And I thought they did an excellent job.
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I knew nothing about the relationship between him and Benjamin Franklin, right?
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And so I thought they did a great job pointing that out and showing two completely different
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men and their thinking.
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Yes.
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It was great.
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I thought it was a great film.
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Yeah.
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I would highly recommend that, friends, it may be out of the theaters soon, but a great
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awakening.
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I was convicted, brother.
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I mean, it brought me to tears several times.
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I just, and I'm somewhat ashamed of American pastors.
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And then there's a remnant of bold, Bible-believing churchmen who are unashamed to the gospel.
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They'll preach the whole council of God.
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But that is the minority.
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And I think that's an understatement.
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So I was, it's just really inspired to dust off my, I've got a George Woodfield book
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of quotes.
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It's called George Woodfield Gold, and I'm just reading through that and just his conviction
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and his passion, his work ethic, oh my goodness.
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So anyway, I just thought I'd ask you about that.
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I haven't had chance to talk with anyone about that, but yeah, very amazingly well done.
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So we've changed a lot from men that are boldly preaching.
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You must be born again and repent.
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You don't hear the word repent much anymore.
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But we're trying to bring that back, aren't we, Matt?
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The true gospel to convict people, understand there is such a thing as sin.
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You just don't hear that.
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As you said at the beginning, some people, they don't want to talk about that because they
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don't want to offend people or have people leave their church.
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And that's just so sad, isn't it?
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So sad, isn't it?
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Yeah, the importance of going out into the streets, into the highways and byways and proclaiming
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Christ.
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It is taught by Christ, exemplified by the apostles in the book of Acts.
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And yet those who actually do that seem to have run up against the powers that be within
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Christianity, you look at Patrick, you know, went to Ireland and he had all kinds of trouble
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from the mainline churchmen of his day giving him grief for the way he did things.
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And in this film, the great awakening, you cease the trouble that at least some of the
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trouble.
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There was far more than the film brought out that George Woodfield ran into an his day.
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And it's no different in our day.
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You go out to the streets, to the universities, to the highways and byways, you proclaim Christ
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open air.
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And that's proud upon by many within Christianity and viewed as, that doesn't produce any fruit
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and all that kind of thinking.
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No, it's actually the pattern laid out by the prophets and the Old Testament and by the
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apostles and the New Testament.
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It's part of our history as Christians throughout 2000 years of Christianity.
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So I thought the film did a great job of lighting a fire.
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I know it did.
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You were saying it affected me that way, too, like I go out to the streets, but it's like
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this film really kindled a fire in my heart to continue on and be faithful for Christ.
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I'm 65 now and you can begin to think I'm fading out and all that kind of thing.
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No, let's continue faithful to him and let's cross the finish line, serving him faithfully.
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Yeah, convicting is there so many other words I could and we're not here to talk about
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George Whitfield, but it is an inspiring story in his life was amazing.
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He had asthma yet he's out there preaching every day, every night and traveling just a rigorous
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schedule and he preached his last sermon out in the field to thousands, maybe tens of
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thousands came back.
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He was about to go upstairs and rest and some people came followed him to the house.
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He needed they needed to hear more.
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He preached another sermon on the stairs.
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He was holding a candle.
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The candle went out.
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He went upstairs.
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He died the next morning.
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Really amazing.
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Yeah, and what you're saying about his work ethic, I mean, he'd get up at 4 a.m. he'd
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preach on average five sermons a day and he'd go to bed at 10 p.m. so he got six hours
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of sleep each night for decades all because of his desire to proclaim Christ to men and
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so needed in England, of course, they tossed him on his ear over there.
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He came all the way over here and then he went between the two nations and caused the
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huge impact that even secular historians should be great things to the goodness of America
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through the preaching of George Woodfield.
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Yeah.
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Praise God.
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Yeah.
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Praise God.
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Important history for the church to understand.
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Okay.
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By the way, I want to mention the YouTube channel Mercy See Christian Church.
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You can catch Pastor Matt's sermons.
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You do live stream them, right?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Mercy See Christian Church on YouTube Mercy See W.I.
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It's transition now, Matt, to missionaries to the pre-born because I've got a couple
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articles here, a good news and a bad news article.
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So it's missionaries to the pre-born.com.
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The good news is over at CBN News, Mark Hauke was arrested how many years ago during the
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Biden crackdown on pro-lifers, praying outside of abortion clinics and interposing.
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But here's an article pro-lifer who was arrested at home in a terrifying raid wins seven
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figure settlement against the Democrat Department of Justice.
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So what Biden did, he was trying to intimidate pro-lifers and Christians, putting people in
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jail, raiding them.
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And this raid took place in front of his children, Mark Hauke's children and at gunpoint.
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Let me see.
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I remember this, because I wrote about this many years ago, they had people with weapons
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drawn on the lawn and on his front porch at I think like six in the morning or something
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like that.
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Years later, he sued and he received, he was, all charges were dropped against him.
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He received just over a million dollars, but he could have gone to jail.
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He faced up to 11 years in prison and a $350,000 fine.
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Elections have consequences and share a little bit about this is the work you do, Matt.
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You and those from your church and those who are part of missionaries of the pre-born
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out there on the sidewalks with the signs, praying outside of abortion mills, go ahead.
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Yeah, so many were arrested and charged by the Biden DOJ.
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It was very evil.
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It was a witch hunt, a major proportion.
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But yeah, missionaries of pre-born, we've been in existence since 1990 and we speak up
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for the pre-born.
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We used to interpose at the doors of the death camps.
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I spent about 15 months in jail over a four-year period for interposing at the doors of
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the death camps.
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But we still minister all the time at the death camps here in Milwaukee and then also
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we go on the streets here in Milwaukee, busy intersections and set up with photographs.
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And then we go to universities and we've been doing that, we've been going to the universities
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for 30 years now.
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So we were just recently in Tennessee and had four days of ministry down there.
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We actually went to Kentucky the last day because we kept running into trouble with Tennessee,
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each campus we went to.
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Tennessee likes to talk about liberty and freedom.
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And yet it was the most draconian stuff we run into other than Texas, which also likes
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to talk about liberty and freedom.
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They are the worst campuses.
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I mean, I can walk on any campus here in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan and not be bothered
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at all by the authorities.
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But in these two states, wow, it was crazy.
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But nevertheless, God still used our efforts there.
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We talked with thousands of students, put out tens of thousands of pieces of literature,
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preached the Word of God.
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And of course, if you're on a university doing ministry, you end up talking about
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every subject under the planet because the young people want to do that.
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I think want to know what God thinks about this and that or accuse you of something and then you have to respond.
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So it's a great time of ministry.
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So missionaries pre-born, we just this past Saturday did a busy intersection over here in West Dallas.
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We continue because they're still murdering people and it's terrible.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely terrible.
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And across the country.
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And as the Bible prophetically described, evil will find new ways to do evil.
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And the Satan doesn't stop.
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Evil is being called good, good is being called evil.
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The next headline I want to ask Pastor Matt about this is heartbreaking over 91,000 male order abortions were carried out
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in pro-life states, so called last year, 2025, male order.
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So they're finding new ways to just get these pills or whatever it is to the young women to kill their babies at home.
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You can do it at home, even in the 13 states where you have most abortions outlawed.
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Abortion's still going on.
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These male and abortions call order abortions.
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Then there's all the chemical abortions that are taking place in all these states.
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And of course, chemical abortions, David, have been on the rise for a long time now while surgical abortions have been going down.
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And it's become so much easier, cleaner, right?
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To murder your son or daughter that way, then you have to go to a death camp and have a surgery done.
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And so the need for Christians to be faithful to Christ and show love to their neighbor is so important, even now to the state.
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There's still hundreds of freestanding abortion clinics in our nation, including here in Wisconsin that you can minister outside of.
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But wherever you go, you can speak up for the preborn.
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I like using little drop cards and I have them for how Christ changed my life in my testimony.
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I have a website, how Jesus changed my life.com.
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And so I correspond with people there because I put that card out all day.
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And then I have another little card I put out as a picture of a preborn child.
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And it talks about the incarnation of Christ.
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These are just business sized cards.
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Keep them right in your pocket.
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You can put them anywhere in the credit card sleeve at the gas pump on the top of the urinal when you're in a restroom, all that kind of thing.
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And then hand them to people also as you're going through your day.
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So I think it's extremely important that we speak up for our preborn neighbors because it's not just surgical abortions.
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It's a massive amount of being slaughtered by chemicals at this time.
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And that's what's interesting, Matt.
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And we haven't talked about this since it's been a while since we've had you on.
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And by the way, Matt spoke at the Men of Iron Conference in Green Bay this year.
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And I got chance to catch up with him in person, which was wonderful.
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But since Roe v Wade was overturned, the big victory for the pro life movement,
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there are more abortions now than there were.
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And we're still our tax dollars.
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You know, I think the Trump administration tried to cut some of it, but still some of our tax money is still going to fund abortions.
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So we can't move on like we won the victory.
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Roe v Wade is overturned.
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Your thoughts on that, Matt?
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Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
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And one of the biggest problems, David, is the pro life movement itself.
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It keeps wanting to nibble at the edges rather than just declare what God's word says.
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I mean, these are children made in the image of God to kill them is murder.
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And it means to be denounced as such.
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And we need to give up this idea of well, we can incrementally back this thing off.
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Once you give into that, you've given up the moral high ground.
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And I always tell people who still want to think that way.
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You should just get off the field of battle because we tried that for 50 years.
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And they're still butchering children.
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And so we need to be faithful to Christ and faithful to our neighbor and say, no,
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we're not parlaying with the killing of the pre-born.
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All murder should be outlawed.
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All slaughter of the pre-born should be outlawed.
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Period.
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And that's where we should stand.
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And that's what we should demand of our politicians.
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And look where we're at now with our Republican politicians, for example,
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here in Wisconsin.
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Yeah, they're all good with the 20-week ban, where 98% of the pre-born have already been slaughtered.
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And before that, they were trying to pass a 15-week ban,
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which is 94% of the pre-born have been slaughtered.
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This is not good.
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I remember I went to a public hearing a couple years ago
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when they tried to pass that 15-week abortion ban.
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Born again, Christian was on the committee, talked to him afterwards,
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and he was going to vote against it until he talked to his pastor.
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And his pastor told him, well, you got to do that because then, you know,
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at least a few are saying, no, you should demand.
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No one gets murdered here, period.
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And until we get to that point and adopt this nonsense of costly voting for the lesser of two evils,
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because a lesser of two evils just keeps getting more evil.
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I'm 65 now.
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I watch it all my life.
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You have to take a stand where you're faithful to Christ.
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And you say, I'm not going to vote for this person,
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because they openly impune the law of God.
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And when we take stands like that and as a good effect,
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a salt effect upon the culture, and hopefully we can see things turned around
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as we do those things and continue to proclaim the gospel.
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Hopefully, if we haven't learned since, I don't know,
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what has been 72, 73, that incrementalism doesn't work.
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It's pro-life political ping pong is what it is in Washington with legislation.
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And anyway, you made your point.
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But I want to go on now to your subject matter at the Men of Iron Conference,
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because you talked about this great, great segue.
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The Bible says, be fruitful and multiply.
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And yet, I don't think Christians or some pastors got the memo on that
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on how to preach that to the congregation on raising not only godly families,
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but having multiple children.
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Because as you shared, we're down to 1.2 for children per couple.
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Is that America?
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Matt, go ahead and share your thoughts on this.
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Yeah, well, all the West is committing familial suicide right now.
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We know that because demographers, you know, properly point out,
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you need 2.1 children per couple, just to replace yourself.
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For the last few decades, Europe hasn't been replacing itself.
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The average in most of these nations is 1.24, 1.27, 1.26.
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They are committing familial suicide.
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And of course, they're being overrun by Islam at this time,
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and partly because of their governments,
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and partly because they decided to abrogate the created order of god and not had children.
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They view them as a burden rather than a blessing.
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They view them as a hindrance to wealth and ease.
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So they don't want to have them any here in America.
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Last year or year before last, we were 1.67 per couple.
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So for the last seven years, David, we have been committing familial suicide
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in this nation also.
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And one of the things I brought up at the Men of Iron Conference was the fact
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of a guy who wrote a book named Carl Zimmerman.
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He wrote it in 1947.
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He's not a Christian, he's a sociologist.
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If you know anything about sociology,
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they do one of two things with Christianity.
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Either act like it had nothing to do with the last 2000 years of Western civilization
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or it had everything bad to do with the last 2000 years of Western civilization.
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But Zimmerman was just an honest man, impeccable credentials,
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and he shows the good in his work, family and civilization.
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Published in 1940s, I'm powerful.
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You should read it.
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Four days, I read the whole thing, I couldn't put it down.
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Just in my spare time here and there.
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And so it's extremely important for people to understand.
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Zimmerman pointed out that from the time the Greeks didn't want to have children
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until they fell to the Romans, was about 150 years.
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From the time the Romans didn't want to have children today completely collapsed
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into the German chords, it was nearly 400 years.
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We've been in a steep decline for well over 150 years now here in America.
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Here's what Zimmerman said.
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He said, the beginning of the collapse of any culture or civilization
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is when the people no longer want to have children.
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And he said, I don't mean by that zero.
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He said, although there are those,
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he said, I mean, they only want one or two.
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And he said, the reason that's the tipping point
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where societies or cultures or civilizations start their slide to decadence.
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He said, is because when men want to be husbands and fathers
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and women want to be wives and mothers,
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it produces within people virtue.
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But when men don't want to be husbands and fathers
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and women don't want to be wives and mothers,
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it produces within people vice.
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And that's the culture we've been living in.
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And Zimmerman says it takes a few generations
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for it to really manifest.
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He said, but then the decline happens so rapidly.
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People are just stunned at what has happened to their nation,
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what has happened to their culture.
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So yeah, even something as simple as multiplying as Christodas,
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having sons and daughters has consequences.
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There's consequences, whatever you go against his law,
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his word, or his created order.
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There's so much coming against the idea of being fruitful,
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multiplying and Christians having children.
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For example, kids are conditioned to not get married,
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to go pursue their career, women and young men.
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And then they get married later,
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and that's been a big issue as well.
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I mean, I don't remember the numbers,
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but marriage is in, some people are in their late 20s and 30s,
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getting married now, complete change from 50 or 100 years ago, right?
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It's a complete change.
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Yeah, and the average for a woman now is over 27 years old,
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and the average for a man now is over 29 years old
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before they get married.
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And, and yeah, society has made it that way.
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That's a good point that you make.
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In many ways, they've made it that way,
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including the matter of chasing after a college degree,
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slowing everything down, then you're in debt,
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you gotta pay it off.
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And the culture points to money, money, money
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is being the number one thing
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that everybody should live for.
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We talk about a meager existence.
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Me and my wife have 11 children.
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We have 40 grandchildren now, and two great grandchildren.
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And I can't thank God enough for every one of them.
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It's just that simple.
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And, but we live in a culture now,
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where the focus is on self.
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It's what sociologists call an atomistic society,
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A-T-O-M, atomistic society,
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where the individual is held paramount.
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What happiness the individual possesses
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decides what course society should take.
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And that's what we're at right now.
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We have a very me-centered culture,
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rather than a other person-centered culture,
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as Christ teaches us to love our neighbors or so.
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What you said, we're running on a time
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to just have a few minutes left past your mat.
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But yeah, we are so me-centered.
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Narcissism is elevated, and it's all about me, me, me.
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And that plays into something we don't have time to talk about.
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You talk about luxury and ease,
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the pursuit of maybe the American dream
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for lack of better frisology,
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but that's really what the church has even fallen into.
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So we've got multiple problems, multiple fronts.
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In the last maybe two minutes or so,
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just share your heart.
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How can we, as the body of Christ,
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true Bible-believing Christians,
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be a part of educating, overcoming this?
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Go ahead.
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Yeah.
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So just this past Sunday,
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you had mentioned our, you know,
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channel at you to Mercy C. Christian Church at YouTube.
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This past Sunday, I preached a sermon
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called The Crofting Influence of Riches and Silver Tongues.
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And in there, in the detail box,
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I also put in one sermon from 20 plus years ago,
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called Luxury, Enemy of Our Souls.
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And one from about 13 years ago, 12 years ago,
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entitled The Danger of God's Blessing to Individuals and Nations.
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They all deal with this matter of riches, wealth, and ease.
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So you can get so much from Scripture
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and those sermons, so much from history,
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what other churchmen have said about it.
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They're all three of them are just packed to the gills,
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with good stuff.
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And, but the bottom line is, is that, you know,
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we have to follow Christ, faithfully, in every area of life.
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And when it's come to this area of having children,
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unfortunately, the overwhelming mass,
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vast majority of Christian people
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have embraced the world's thinking on that.
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That children are an impediment to wealth and ease,
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or that they're going to keep them from being able to live the life
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that they want to live.
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So it's crazy.
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I know we're just about out of time, but thank you, David.
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Yeah, thank you, Matt.
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For all you do, we could spend hours talking about some of these
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very important issues, and we just scratched the surface.
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I just want to direct people to mercyseat.net
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and also make sure to check out defytarence.com missionaries
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to the pre-born, get some of those cards.
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I appreciate all the work you do, man.
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I've been following you for years, was blessed.
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I think once or twice to be able to speak with you at an event,
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but man, as we need more men of God like you,
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and thanks for what you're doing.
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We will stay connected, brother.
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Thank you again, God bless.
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God bless you.
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Friends, share this one as well.
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Get this out there.
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We appreciate it so much.
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God bless you, and as always, keep speaking the truth
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about things that manage.
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See you next time.