Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 253. Direct Mail Isn't Dead Yet... Here's the New Playbook - Mike Duerksen

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253. Direct Mail Isn't Dead Yet... Here's the New Playbook - Mike Duerksen · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Today's episode is sponsored by feather feather provides digital marketing tools and strategies for nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, including the Humane Society of North Central Florida. Stick around for the break to hear how feather power their $300 digital ad campaign that raised nearly$6,000 In just one day. Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:24
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:41
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:52
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Yo, Becky, what's up, man?
• 0:56
  Becky Endicott: Hey, one of our favorite people is here. And news alert. Direct Mail is not dead. And we have brought in someone who I think is one of the foremost experts on leveraging direct mail. And the thing that I love so much about our guest is he understands it's not just a siloed tool. It's a layered tool. And so we're going to be talking about that today.
• 1:18
  Becky Endicott: But it is my great joy to introduce a good friend, Mike Dirksen, I hope a lot of you already know him. He is just a profound thought leader in the nonprofit and social good space.
• 1:30
  Becky Endicott: He's the founder and CEO of build good. He's also the host of the building good fundraising podcasts, which have been blessed to be on. And I just really love this company.
• 1:41
  Becky Endicott: Because not only they're applying a lot of the insights and the latest trends that are happening in philanthropy, but they go deep into psychology and behavioral science, and they talk about middle donor programs, and how do you create donor loving newsletters and things that are that I think a lot of us just don't think about in a granular level. So Mike is the founder he CEO, and I love that you created this incredible company out in Winnipeg, Canada, so excited to have our Canadian friends on. But he's really on a mission to help nonprofits build predictable fundraising success by focusing on donor needs, identities and values. John, does that sound like someone that we would jive with or watch? So geeked out? Yeah, this is gonna be great. The thing that I love so much about his bio, and something that we've connected on is just our love of our kids. He has these two spirited kiddos his words, with his wife Janelle, in the Canadian Prairies. And so I just want to welcome you, Mike, we're so excited that you're in our house come and teach us your ways about direct mail.
• 2:44
  Mike Duerksen: Man, I'm so stoked to to be on here. Thanks for having me on shout out from Winnipeg, Manitoba, the Canadian Prairies. I, before I go, I actually want to commend you guys. Because a lot of us are a little bit frustrated with the way things are. Some of us are frustrated with the way education is on a nonprofit space. And it's super easy to criticize. And it's hard to build. And you guys are building something that is that is going to change education for a lot of fundraisers for a lot of new fundraisers in the industry. And it's just it's been amazing to see. So I'm just a huge fan of you guys. And I see everything you're doing and and just cheering you on, on thanks for doing that.
• 3:28
  Jonathan McCoy: Stick a fork, not how this is supposed to work, but I am really grateful.
• 3:29
  Jonathan McCoy: Thank you so much, man. Oh my gosh, we want to interest share your story with us. You know, I look at you, I see this incredible expert. You're always leading the conversations on LinkedIn, what got you to this place, you know, what was your story of getting to wanting to geek out and spend every day doing fundraising?
• 3:48
  Mike Duerksen: You know, I grew up in South America, my mom was a Swiss nurse who went to Paraguay on an on an on an engagement to work with indigenous people for for a year she met my dad, my dad's family was down there, because he's the son of refugees who fled what is now Ukraine at that time, it was still Russia. And, and one of the countries that that sort of took them in was Paraguay who settled all these refugees, and gave them part of the country in the northern part of berry y which is just arid and dry, and basically a desert. And those folks turned that place around and now it's called the Green Hill. Because they made it fertile. And they cultivated the land and and create big farms out of it. So that's that's kind of where I grew up. And my parents moved us to the capital city, and and and started a shelter for for kids who were who were homeless and orphaned.
• 4:42
  Mike Duerksen: And so we kind of grew up in that environment. And that really shaped a lot of my thinking a lot of the way of looking at the world. And men truthfully, I kind of owe it to my parents who were the Oh geez.
• 4:57
  Mike Duerksen: Like builders, who instilled sense of service in us. And it made us realize that you know, you can serve a market of needs, you don't have to serve a market of wants. And and you can make life and you can make a living serving a market of needs. And that is an honorable and what do you think to do?
• 5:15
  Becky Endicott: Okay, I have to pause before we go to our first credit question and just say, that is an amazing story. And I know a lot of people probably wonder why we want to know someone's backstory in I think this is a perfect example of where you're raised, how you're raised, shapes and defines so much of so many of us that are in the nonprofit sector. And I love the global view of what you're saying. And I was ping pong in my mind, from Switzerland to Paraguay back to Canada. And I just I love the prairie theme here, from Paraguay to Canada to Oklahoma.
• 5:53
  Becky Endicott: And, yeah, I, I just think your story's incredible, it really informs to me why your heart is so large, and why you have chosen this space to kind of hang your shingle. But I really want to dive into direct mail.
• 6:11
  Becky Endicott: And I want to say after the first time we talked, I was like, Mike, we know so little about this, because and I want to be really clear upfront about John and I are the marketers disguised as fundraisers. And we feel like we've got a pretty good handle on how to market things and fundraising, except direct mail. So talk to us a little bit just about the state of direct mail and the opportunity that exists right now for nonprofits that are looking at direct mail and direct marketing.
• 6:45
  Mike Duerksen: Yeah, so direct mail is super weird, let's just let's just put that out there and feel like it's kind of a weird medium, that we don't know why some things work and why some things don't we've got a bit of an idea. A lot of that has just sort of come through testing. But also, I think a lot of the body of knowledge that we're all standing on, including ourselves has been super helpful. I see some of that changing. And I think it's time to to maybe look at direct mail a little bit more critically and thoughtfully and carefully. So I love this question of where's the landscape ad in direct mail, because there's a few things happening. Number one is we're coming off of two years of lockdowns and people being at home more. And all of a sudden that trip to the mailbox got a little bit more exciting than before. So, direct mail actually has been performing really well over the last two years. Not that it wasn't performing before. But but we've seen a bit of an uptake. So there's a bit of renewed momentum, including there's some studies out there saying that millennials are becoming more direct mail responsive. I take that a little bit with a grain of salt. But but direct mail has been working really well throughout the last few years. Number two is we're seeing big tech companies get into direct now we're seeing Amazon use direct mail and gift catalogs. And we're seeing Google and Uber use direct mail with sending coupons in the mail. We're seeing really tech forward companies ecommerce, like big brands, like bonobos, using direct mail. So there's something happening there that if you pay attention to the for profit space, which we do very carefully, because they tend to be a few years ahead of us sometimes. I don't think that should be the case. But sometimes that is the case.
• 8:22
  Mike Duerksen: Yeah. So that's happening. And then we're in this cultural moment. Where some of some of the listeners might be aware of the the Edelman sort of Trust Barometer, they track trust in society, but you don't even have to look at that. You just have to look around and be like, Man things. Trust is down. The internet is one big drunken barroom argument. And conversations. Conversations seem like really charged, like emotionally charged. We've all been part of online conversations that went south really quick. And it feels like we've lost the ability to disagree Well, or, or to have nuanced conversations, you know, that has affected society a little bit. And people are a little bit more skeptical online because conspiracy theories are mainstream all of a sudden, and and you're not quite sure anymore. Who believes what and why do they believe it? And and everybody holds on to on to their belief. So so tight fisted Lee, so generally trust is down a little bit. And direct mail as a medium, for some reason tends to be a little bit more trustworthy. It's romanticized a little bit more. Somebody took the time to write me this thing.
• 9:36
  Mike Duerksen: Generally, when people interact with direct mail, they do it a little bit slower than reading an email if it survives the trip to the recycling bin. All right, well, everybody takes it walks over to the recycling bin. They make a decision and that second, whether they're going to save it for later or not, if it survives that trip and alive. But if it survives that trip, yeah, generally speaking, somebody might interact with it a little little bit at a slower pace, they might sit down, drink a coffee and go through all their mail. We know that in Canada, a younger direct mail donor, same with in the US is 45 plus 50 plus. So that's if you're going after young donors in terms of the current demographic of donors, then that's sort of the younger audience. And they might interact with it a little bit slower. The other thing is, we get so many emails nowadays. And it used to be the opposite you used to get more mail than then you get email. Now you get roughly average, like really broadly speaking, 35 to 40 emails for every one piece of direct mail you get. And so just I believe, just on those pure sort of attention, economics, it's it's worth looking at direct mail because of what the big tech guys are doing because of how it's been performing because of this moment, and culture and society we're at. So I think it's an opportunity that is worth looking at it. I think you should look at it differently than maybe maybe direct mail has been done in the past. That is both a personal bias of mine, but also our methodology and philosophy and approach that is working really well for clients. But that's sort of the moment we're at in direct mail.
• 11:09
  Jonathan McCoy: Whoa, can I just okay, this is incredible. Mike, you're such a great threader and storyteller, because I'll tell you, I was basically arms crossed. I don't like direct mail when Mike walks in the building, because I put in your giving for all these years, and I never understood it right. And that's my own limiting belief on that. And I'll just say in the last five minutes, you've made me curious, you've made me open up my mind to say what's in my head that's maybe holding me back of what this could do, you know, and not to say it's the Savior of all, but you're saying we should be looking at it as part of this ecosystem, the strategy we're building, and it's so smart. So thank you for swimming upstream. Thank you for helping me become a believer in this. And I'm, I'm here for it.
• 11:52
  Jonathan McCoy: I'd love to talk about strategy.
• 11:52
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, I'd love to lean into this on our podcast, how does this become part of the strategy? How do you advise your clients to really integrate this into all the things happening in development plan?
• 12:38
  Mike Duerksen: Yeah, so it is part of a strategy, it is not a strategy, direct mail is a tool that will serve your strategy, and I want to be super clear about this up front is that we don't believe in direct mail or in any channel, we're super channel agnostic. We don't think there's a digital donor, we don't think there's a direct mail donor, we don't think there's a social media donor.
• 12:57
  Mike Duerksen: And there's just people, there's just humans who happen to give in different ways at different times and be exposed to different messages, according to their context. So direct mail is is is part of that mix. And the thing that I think you need to really carefully think about is, do you think that the $25 donor should feel as good about their giving as the $25,000 donor?
• 13:23
  Mike Duerksen: Yes. If you think that, then then you're gonna go about direct mail a lot different.
• 13:30
  Mike Duerksen: Which, which I, which I agree with you because some if somebody if you're sending a piece of direct mail to somebody, it means unless you're doing acquisition, and I think for the purpose of today, we're gonna mostly talk about the cultivation and stewardship, because acquisition is a completely different ballgame.
• 13:43
  Mike Duerksen: That could be a whole podcast in and of itself. But numbers in direct mail acquisition are awful. And unless you've got kind of a household name, brand, and you've got some recognition, and you've been doing a lot of work publicly, it's really an uphill climb. But if you're sending mail to the people who are who poof got a gift, at least one gift on on file already. First of all, these are amazing humans. By definition, they are unusual, most people do not give to charity. So if they've made a gift to you, they're already on usually generous people. So you start there, these are not people who you want to squeeze a gift out of, or these are not people who you want to maximize how much they can give to you. These are people who want to lead toward greater generosity. And yeah, you would love it, if they you want to lead them toward making their best gifts for your organization. They're gonna give to other organizations as well.
• 14:42
  Mike Duerksen: So what is the best gift to your organization that they can make?
• 14:45
  Mike Duerksen: And how can you lead them toward it? We start with that mindset, which is that the $25 donors should be treated just as well as the $25,000 donor, and we should give them an experience that makes giving feel good, that makes them feel like they're important part of the team. And that gives them a meaningful and purposeful way that you can contribute to your mission. I don't know if that's helpful, but that's a starting point. I mean, it
• 15:10
  Jonathan McCoy: helpful. I feel like you give hope to humanity.
• 15:15
  Becky Endicott: I mean, I would have never guessed before we started this conversation that you would have started with mindsets, because and we see that as a trend. One of our eight trends for 2022 is that we have to do be developing these mindsets and God love you, John, for saying that you had a limited budget. Walking in. And I think we just all inherently have those biases, because of things that either went right or wrong. And that doesn't mean it's truth, you know, every single time and I think, just challenging yourself all the time and reading and listening.
• 15:49
  Becky Endicott: And, and heck, just asking your donors opinion, you know, and looking at your data is so important. And we talk often about the donor journey. And if you're just looking at this, as a tactic like this is a way to, to diversify our revenue, it's probably not going to perform as well as if it was a cog in the entire flywheel of what's actually happening. So I feel like you've laid a really great groundwork for why we should do it and where it's heading. I want to talk about the innovation like how can our listeners start to reimagine how to think innovatively about direct mail, give us some of your best tips there.
• 16:32
  Mike Duerksen: Yep, love it. So this depends a little bit on on what sector you're working in, in the nonprofit sector. So this idea of the annual fund is very prevalent for a lot of higher education institution. It's still prevalent, sometimes in healthcare, sometimes in other organizations, but I want to challenge you to get rid of the annual fund appeal. And I want you to think about better offer for your donors. So it starts and ends with the offer, the offer is the thing that the donor is participating in, they're gonna send you some money. So something happens, let's just be very honest about that. That's what fundraising is what it is an exchange of value we're gonna ask you for, for a generous gift, something will happen as a result of that gift, because of you because of our staff because of the work that the beneficiaries are going to put in. But as together as a community, this is this is how it works. We all do our bit and this amazing thing happens. So if you want to think about innovation in direct mail, think about things that are happening in your nonprofit right now. And think about how you can package that up for somebody and invite them into the mission. And even if you think that might be unsexy. So typical appeal might be so we're working with one of our clients is an international development organization, and they help resettle refugees. And a typical appeal might be you know, there's all these refugees, you know, they're being displaced by war, please be part of this, you know, we need to help them resettle. You can give hope and a better future and kind of generic, lofty, aspirational, aspirational. And by the way, there's a time and a place for it. It's often not in direct mail, a time and a place for it.
• 18:17
  Mike Duerksen: Just often it doesn't work as well in direct mail. So a better appeal would be and this is this is what what we worked with them on is okay, so what does it actually look like? Well, they come over the border, and then somebody greets them, and then they sort of get reassigned into these different shelters. And okay, and so we build these shelters in you start talking to them. Okay, so these shelters are called Long houses, there's a very specific way that they're built. And we were able to get the entire spec sheet of the materials that are used to build the shelter. And we were able to get the price point of every piece on that spec sheet from the builder. So now all the sudden the appeal becomes help built as longhouse for refugees in Myanmar, who have been displaced by internal war. And here is the spec sheet from the builder. Here's how much this entire thing is going to cost.
• 19:04
  Mike Duerksen: Here's the price point for you know, you can provide bolts, you can help by the boards, you can help pour the foundation. And all the sudden donors felt like they were really part of this thing like they were part of this mission, they were looking at the at the list of materials that it's going to take to build this thing. So anything that can bring the work closer to the donors in a real tangible and physical way, you are creating an experience that when somebody is sitting down with this piece at the coffee table, you want them to have an emotional response. And you want to steward that time well, because the first gift they gave you was a monetary gift. That's why they're getting the letter in the first place. Now the second gift they're going to give you is the gift of of their time, and the gift of their attention.
• 19:52
  Mike Duerksen: And you have a duty of care to steward that time well that they're spent reading that letter. So you better put care and thought and love into this piece and not just write a generic letter asking them to somehow partner with you in a generic way because it's the right thing to do. Like give them something tangible, draw them in closer treat them like they're an important part of the team. They deserve all the information and frame it in a fundraising offer that they can say yes, this is something I can do.
• 20:22
  Becky Endicott: Okay. Do you all see why we love mike so much.
• 20:27
  Becky Endicott: I've got I've got to circle back and thread something that you said earlier on into this part.
• 20:30
  Becky Endicott: When you share Something as transparent as a spec sheet that is going to build trust. I mean, that is so authentic, this cannot be an offering that we just throw a form letter down and kick it out when you and this is probably the problem that I had with direct mail in the past is like we wanted to storytelling in a way. I don't know that storytelling in a long form format like that actually is as effective. But that example that you just gave is so crystal clear, you could scan it, and I visually start to see these long houses.
• 21:10
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, I need to react to Mike, what you just said there, I hope, hope that we can just broadband this to the entire sector, because this is where we need to lean into. And you're challenged to throw down the annual fun like I am here for the celebrity deathmatch of this like, let's, I mean like by comparison, like, let's think about that, honestly, because I think of that letter, as, hey, it's almost like a pressure to give your peers are giving it we're trying to hit a certain percentage. We're trying to fund what everyone views as the slush fund, we don't really know what it funds compared to the offer that you just outlaid with transparency and just showing appreciation and threading, love for their interest. And all of that is such a dichotomy. And it's one that you really got to sit with, if you're going to say I'm going to keep this annual fund in its current state. So thank you for that. Thanks for unpacking it. Just think
• 22:01
  Mike Duerksen: about it. Like if if you consider toner is an important part of your team. If you if you care about these folks, how would you treat a family member? If you're asking for money from a family member?
• 22:09
  Mike Duerksen: Would you be like, Hey, can I have 200 bucks? As for my general budget? I'm not sure yet what I'm gonna do. You know, maybe Netflix, it just be nice to upgrade, quite frankly. Or you go? No, listen, my car broke down. And I'm just a little bit behind on the bills, would you help me with 200 bucks and fix the car? And then okay, all of a sudden, that becomes a way more joyful experience. Yeah, I'll help you fix your car, I'll step in as a friend in your hour of need. Of course, I will do that for you. Rather than just, you know, can you just generally support me with with your financial gift today? I mean, how arrogant is that? To think that that we can just just treat donors that way. And I want to clarify, some donors might be thinking, you know, that's great. But we don't have long houses, I think there's lots of things you can do. We did a very successful appeal for somebody raising money to buy like a laundry machine like a commercial laundry machine, they were launching a social enterprise for the people that were using their services. And they needed, they were going to do laundry for, for hotels in the city. And they needed these like commercial laundry machines, that would probably be considered a bit of an unsexy offer. But really like no, if that's the need, let's do it.
• 23:24
  Mike Duerksen: Let's be really honest about it.
• 23:24
  Mike Duerksen: And we did the same thing we went to the to the store that sells them, we got the spec sheet for the laundry machines, we put the price on there. And we just built an appeal around that. And if they raise twice as much as they needed for two commercial laundry machines, if you're just going to be honest and true with donors, and you're clear about the outcomes, what will make happen, how they how they can be part of this mission. You know, this is what we're trying to achieve right now. Man, I'd love for you to be part of this mission. And by the way, if you give me your email address, and give me your phone, I'm going to text you a picture on the day that we bring these machines back to our shop, I'll send you a picture of us installing these, like you want me to be accountable to gift this is what I'll do. And that builds your your email list, and it builds your phone list. And now you're talking about multi channel sort of nirvana. Right?
• 24:16
  Mike Duerksen: You're starting to combine all of
• 24:18
  Becky Endicott: these things. I wish everybody could see John and I's faces right now.
• 24:24
  Jonathan McCoy: I'm like, where's that appeal? I want to be part of that. I want to I want to find this laundry machine. You know, like, that's awesome.
• 24:29
  Becky Endicott: And the I would say almost it's a great juxtaposition of transitioning this very traditional method into a digital or multi channel age. And I and I think the beauty of that is you meet people where they are man, that was a brilliant pro tip.
• 24:51
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, this episode is presented by virtuous and they just happen to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why.
• 24:55
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than nonprofit CRM.
• 25:11
  Jonathan McCoy: Virtuous has committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys, and by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty, your personalized engagement. Sound like virtuous may be a fit for your organization. Learn more today virtuous.org Follow the link in our show notes.
• 25:40
  Becky Endicott: Hey, friends, are you ready to take your digital engagement to the next level, but kind of feel stuck about where to start? Let us introduce you to feather feathers, an amazing tech startup focused on making nonprofit outreach more impactful by connecting you to your audience wherever they are online, from fundraising to program awareness, they've got you covered. And rather than telling you, we just wanted to show you for years, the Humane Society of North Central Florida has participated in a local online giving day called the amazing give. It's a competitive landscape for donations. So in 2021, the Humane Society knew they needed to stand out in order to maximize donations for$300 in ad spend their retargeting ads brought 119 visitors to their amazing gift donation page and generated nearly $6,000 in donations in just one day. With feather a small amount of ad spend can go a long way, learn more about their solutions for nonprofits@feather.co. That's feather without the last e.co.
• 26:35
  Becky Endicott: Now let's get back to this amazing conversation.
• 26:44
  Jonathan McCoy: So okay, Mike, let's start to like get into practical here for implementation. You work with nonprofits, we work with nonprofits and see this on the daily there's going to be barriers, there's going to be old thinking around this, how do you start to break that down?
• 26:57
  Jonathan McCoy: Where do you advise people to really start to lean into this kind of new wave or new approach?
• 27:02
  Mike Duerksen: Yeah. So it's, it starts with having a conversation a do we do we want to grow? And do we want to grow individual giving in? Do we want to grow individual giving from donors who may not give at the$1,000 level? Like who may be below that? And that's a conversation you need to have.
• 27:21
  Mike Duerksen: Because Absolutely, when you look at the ROI, I'm going to use generic numbers. This is different for every shop, CFO or CEO, they might say, you know, we invest $1, in direct mail, we're going to get two or three back, we invest $1, in mid level giving, we might get 10 to 12.
• 27:35
  Mike Duerksen: Back, we invest $1 in major giving, we're going to get 20 to 30 to 100, back, depending on on your program. Why should we be bothering with the 123 return when we've got an opportunity to one two to one to 30 over here?
• 27:51
  Mike Duerksen: And that's absolutely right.
• 27:51
  Mike Duerksen: Major giving is the biggest lever you can pull mid level giving is sort of the second, you know, after legacy giving, it's sort of the other lever you can pull. But you've got to ask yourself, do we want a broad base of donors? Do we care about diversifying our base of donors?
• 28:09
  Mike Duerksen: I make the argument that building a strong individual giving program, even though we know it leads to mid level and major giving later it's a total pipeline for legacy giving. It's a pipeline for monthly giving, even though we know that even if that wasn't the case, I still make the case that it's important for us to build a broad base of individual donors because it's his Diversity, Equity and Inclusion issue.
• 28:30
  Mike Duerksen: Because why would we have this KPI of saying our average gift needs to be 500. And up? It's a completely made up internal constraint, it is a made up number that we have. Do you want a gate keep this from people who who may want who may be excited about what you do they want to be part of it. But who can give$50 a year or $100 a year? And do you want to gate keep it from people who are on a fixed income you want to keep keep it from people who've been loyal donors for you. But now they're retiring and they're in a pension and they can give less and less. But they've left you a gift in their will. But you're going to say no, you no longer get our comms and no, we no longer going to steward. You only giving the dollars a year$100 A year.
• 29:11
  Jonathan McCoy: Yes, everything that you're saying. I mean, these questions. It's directly proportionate. The questions you ask in your life, I just heard this this last weekend is connected to the quality of your life. And this is true with this. of are you asking the right questions. And when you put it like that. We're like why? Of course we would all want those things. You know, of course, you wouldn't want to be that. And so I love that you're pushing and challenging us. This is great.
• 29:34
  Becky Endicott: You know, our listeners have been hearing John and I say forever that if we can flip the donor pyramid and really cultivate those bottom donors in a way that makes them feel seen and makes the $50 gift feel as valuable to your point as a $50,000 gift. Then you're building a long value bridge to the plan gift at the end, which should be the ultimate goal. The major gift is not the ultimate goal. The plan gift is the ultimate legacy gift at the very end of this journey. And the way that you have framed that as direct mail could be an entry point. Or it could be one of the sustainers of that entire journey is so smart. If you can do it in a way that is so strategic. So way to go, Mike,
• 30:25
  Mike Duerksen: that's exactly how do you summarize that better than than I could. And by the way, when somebody leaves your legacy gift, it might be the large gift that they will ever leave to you in their life. But it's also them saying, this is so important to me that I'm staking my claim as a person post humorously on this thing, it means that you saw them for who they were. And you created this beautiful connection where you served them in being able to preserve the values that were important to them in their lifetime. And that's just a testament to you having built community. And if we're not building community, then what are we doing?
• 31:06
  Becky Endicott: I want that to hang. Yeah, if we're not building community, what are we building? Because, Mike, I feel like you're talking about me. I mean, I feel like you're talking about everybody, the majority of people out there, who in the world, people who are listening now, we are the $50 donor, we are the $25 donor, we want our pet charities, to see us and to give us that lifelong stewardship. And so I just think what you're saying has incredible relevance. In this moment, you talk about creating, steeped education that is of the now and I'm like you're doing it, you're doing it as you're talking about it. If I was in a shop right now, I would hand you all of my direct mail budget, and I would love to see where you would go with it. I I'm really curious about a case study, if you will share one with us of maybe one of your clients or something that you've seen who has really leveraged this in a way I love the the washing machine or the dryer example, but give us a case study of someone that you've seen really do this? Well,
• 32:11
  Mike Duerksen: yeah, I'm going to use a small shop. Because in Canada, in the US, there's a an overwhelming majority of sort of the nonprofit sector are small shops. And it is possible, there's this common belief out there that you have to have at least 15,000 names, or at least 20,000 names on your file for direct mail to work. But this can absolutely work for you if you're listening and you have a small donor file. So one of our clients, inner city youth alive, they work with young people in in our cities, North End, every city kind of has a north end.
• 32:40
  Mike Duerksen: For us, it's called the north end of the cities. You know, it's a it's a neighborhood where where years of underinvestment have created families who are living in in sometimes pretty desperate situations at times, and inner cities alive is right in a neighborhood. So many of their staff actually moved into the neighborhood, they live there. And they've got a smallish donor base, and they have two 3000 names on file. And many of those, by the time we started working with them weren't necessarily active, they just had over the years over their 20 year 30 year history that just sort of built this file. And in about 12 to 14 months, they almost doubled their giving, from individual giving, using a very simple direct mail strategy, and you go on Instagram, you post about the work, you see which part of the work gets a lot of engagement.
• 33:30
  Mike Duerksen: Okay, that might be a great offer, because people Instagram have already told you that, that they think that that's interesting, right? So this doesn't have to be fancy, you don't have to do a lot of testing, you know, you can just like, look at what you're doing already. What are people interested in that might be a good offer. And so we started working with them with a very, very simple rhythm. It is every quarter of the year. So four times a year, there's a direct mail appeal, then there is a really good, thank you that follows up personal thank you to the people who gave. And then there's a newsletter, that is in a report back on what the appeal was about. And then you've earned the right to ask again.
• 34:06
  Mike Duerksen: So very simple, small shop strategy. And some of the appeals we ran for them was they wanted to buy a building down the street from them and start a construction business. Because a lot of youth in their program, when you ask them, What do you want to be when you grew up, they said, I want to be a social worker, or I want to be a police officer. And they started realizing that's the only two professions they know those are the people that they interact with. That's why they want to be a social worker, or a police officer. And youth with lots of talents and skills that just haven't had the chance necessarily find them or develop them or even so they start this business to teach youth construction skills where they're going to buy houses in the neighborhood, they're going to renovate them, they're going to decorate them, they're going to flip them, and they're going to flip them at a price that is very affordable for families in that neighborhood. Right. So really beautiful, sort of closing the circle. And so we did a campaign where we took the listing of this place. We sent it to donors, we said, this is the list price. Here's the listing. Here's the blueprints that we've come up with, with how we're going to turn this into this construction shop.
• 35:14
  Mike Duerksen: Here's all the tools we're going to need. Here's the two trucks we'll need. Here's the leader that's going to lead the program who's a graduate from our program, and he shared his testimony of how this is time to give back. So that's a really, it's not complicated. Anybody can do this. You just got to think differently about it. And just overwhelming response from donors. Right, yeah, I'll help you by that building. Of course, I will, like I'll do everything I can in my power to help you do that, that direct mailer also surfaced mid level donors. And it surfaced major donors, because oftentimes what happens is the $100 donor in your file might be $100,000 donor in another file. But you've only asked them for the annual fund gift of $100, once a year. So that's what they've given you.
• 35:57
  Mike Duerksen: So you can also use direct mail to surface higher gifts. It doesn't just have to be about the low level gifts. Another appeal we ran for them was during COVID. They started running because they reach to run a meal program, all of a sudden, there's lockdowns, you're not supposed to have people in your. So they started running cooking classes via zoom, where they prepared a food kit that the kids could pick up, they could take it home, log on to zoom, and then they would all cook a meal together. And also the parents could be part of it.
• 36:27
  Mike Duerksen: And also learn how to cook that way. Now, that's a great appeal.
• 36:32
  Mike Duerksen: You just turn it into, hey, we're running. Here, we're running these COVID cooking classes. This is how much the food kit cost. Here's a list of all the items in the kit. Flour is this much chicken is this much just price it all out, send donors a price list a checklist and say, here's what we need to purchase for the food kits. And by the way, do you want to join a COVID cooking class? Like, let us know because you know, maybe you can be part of this thing.
• 36:55
  Becky Endicott: You know, once again, the story or the Ask doesn't just have to be an ask, like invite a man come on in and watch this on the front line, watch your gift and action be a part of it come meet our community, can you imagine the level of buy in the level of connected passion that you could get because it's one thing to make a gift. But when you see it, when you touch it, that becomes an entirely different experience, you will not ever forget the face of those kids in your mind as it's connected.
• 37:25
  Becky Endicott: Every time you see that logo or something in your inbox. What a great case study.
• 37:31
  Mike Duerksen: And if you can't do that, if you can't bring donors that close to the to the program, there's other ways you can still have donors involved.
• 37:38
  Mike Duerksen: And I'll give you just give you one more example of how you might be able to do this.
• 37:45
  Mike Duerksen: Because part of community part of building community is communion. And I don't mean communion in sort of the religious way I mean communion, as in communing with other people and communing with each other. Right. And so can you can you create a communion between the people you're helping and the people who are who are your donors, I think there's lots of ways you can even when there are sort of privacy laws that prevent you from doing that.
• 38:09
  Mike Duerksen: And, and one of those examples is one of our clients, settles refugees in Canada. So they're arriving from Afghanistan, they're arriving from different parts. And they're a settling agency. Now for privacy reasons.
• 38:22
  Mike Duerksen: They don't share names, and they don't share sort of identifying information. So it's a little bit harder to create that connection through said, Well, what is what is a piece of connection where the donor can still feel like they are connected to the person they're helping. And in a in a mailer, we just said, you know, here's this little thing that we're going to give everybody who arrives here, and it's the top 10 things to know about your new home, your city, right? So we designed this little flyer, that that they're going to give to these people, when they when they arrive at the airport and they get selling their home, it's like, and then a donor had a chance to add a personal note on that flyer, if they wanted to. Just like Welcome home, you know, so glad your neighbor, we hope you enjoyed his place. And and then you know, here's 10 things that you should know about your new home. That's something where a donor still feels like okay, somebody is going to get this, okay, just like somebody at the charity took time, and wrote this thing for me and said, Here, I made this for you. I want you to read it, I want you to interact with it. I thought of you when I made this the same way that donor can send us back and and for the Beneficent, say here, I made this for you. But a thoughtful note on it. There is no one to one interaction between the fishery, but it's still a way of trying to create that connection.
• 39:35
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, you're such a masterful storyteller, your life your career, like has just threaded you through philanthropy. Is there something would you take us back? What's the story that's really stuck with you, where you saw the power of philanthropy personally,
• 39:48
  Mike Duerksen: years ago, I worked at a homeless shelter.
• 39:51
  Mike Duerksen: And there was a gift that came in and it was a legacy gift, you get the big brown envelope. And it was a $25,000 gift from somebody who was not on the donor file. So unknown to the organization, but the sister, her name was Wendy, in the gift from Rick and his sister, Wendy said, you know, I had no idea that my brother had left a gift to displace in his will. In fact, I had no idea at all that he left any charity in His will or that is even something that he would consider worked for the city of Winnipeg as a garbage man and not a very well paying job and lived a very humble and quiet life. And when he said didn't even know he had $25,000 to his name. And that was basically his life savings that you've left to this place. And she didn't know for sure. But she figured, you know, on his route, he must have just always driven by and seen the need and seen the people and thought to himself, I'd love to help, but I can't, I just don't have the money. But then he left $25,000, his life savings, when he passed away, for most organizations, they would have never considered him to be a donor, they would have never considered the time and the effort, it might take to steward a person like that. And then you get the $25,000 gift.
• 41:14
  Mike Duerksen: And all of a sudden, it's like, Man, I wish I could make I wish someday I can match his $25,000 gift. And by all the all the economic sort of indicators, you know, many of our lives are better than his was. But I think he was way ahead of most of us in terms of where his heart was at and in terms of his dedication. So that's, that's a moment of philanthropy, that that will, that will stick with me forever.
• 41:38
  Jonathan McCoy: And it's gonna be one that's gonna stick with me. I mean, what a story.
• 41:41
  Becky Endicott: I mean, I've all choked up, but I'm just sitting here thinking, what an opportunity, I wish you would have gotten to know him. I wish he could have had a conversation, I wish you could have told him what that meant.
• 41:55
  Becky Endicott: But what a gorgeous story, and honestly, just a great challenge to all of us about what we're doing in this lifetime. And where we leave our mark, it's such a great reminder. So as we're sort of winding down, Mike, you know, we end all of our podcast episodes with the one good thing, what would be yours,
• 42:14
  Mike Duerksen: I will, I will say this, it is very easy to listen to podcasts like this, and then you're so fired up, you're like, I'm gonna do this.
• 42:22
  Mike Duerksen: And you're super persistent, about whatever you just learned in and you want to implement it.
• 42:27
  Mike Duerksen: And then you might find yourself a few weeks later, sort of burnt out, and you gave it a good, good goal, and it didn't work.
• 42:33
  Mike Duerksen: And my one good thing is just like, you know, it's better to be consistent, then, then to have persistence, so to speak, just be consistent at one good thing every day, I write down three things I want to get done every day. And that's it. And I write them down in order of priority. And if I get number one done, I feel like the day was a win. Because the to do list gets so long, specially for fundraisers, I know what you're dealing with. I know the expectations from the board on the boss, I know that you're working on things off the side of your desk, that we're not in the job description. And every month, there's something else that you got to do. I know somebody's telling you to go look into crypto and into tick tock. And And why aren't we doing this? And like, you know, should we be doing NF Ts. And in the meantime, there's a pile of tax receipts you haven't signed yet. There's a pile of thank yous you haven't gotten to, I know that there's so much that you're dealing with. But if you can just consistently remind yourself of I just do my core job, the core of my work, if I do that very consistently, every single day to win is not going to feel immediate. But you're going to look back in a few months, and you're gonna be like, I can't believe all the things that I got done. So write yourself down three things you want to get done that day in order of priority. And if you just get number one done, it's been a good day.
• 43:50
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, Mike, we just love this conversation. You are just a light for our sector.
• 43:54
  Jonathan McCoy: Tell us about build good tell us how people can find you build good podcast is incredible.
• 44:01
  Jonathan McCoy: connect us to all the things.
• 44:03
  Mike Duerksen: Yeah, so probably the main way to connect with me is on LinkedIn, if you just look for Mike Dirksen, or you look for build good, I try to share regular insights, I try to build in public as much as possible.
• 44:13
  Mike Duerksen: When we're learning stuff. I tried to share that on LinkedIn, that's probably one of the better ways to connect with me.
• 44:18
  Mike Duerksen: You can go to build good calm.
• 44:22
  Mike Duerksen: That's that's our our little agency. And we are working on on an offering. Because I know that not everybody can afford to work with an agency totally get it.
• 44:32
  Mike Duerksen: We are working on an offering, where we're going to teach everything we know about direct mail, give you all of our materials, all of our checklists, all of our processes, wrap it around with a bit of coaching for you to be super successful. That's coming later on in the year. But if you just go to build good calm, we've got a free course for you there that you can sign up for and and that'll that'll get you connected. And I would be honored if I get to steward your audience's time if if some of them end up connecting with us.
• 45:03
  Becky Endicott: Oh, I hope they do. And please let us know about your workshop because we would love to socialize that in the community. I think I would be shocked if this conversation did not reignite some interest in a lot of our listeners in this strategy. And I think what I'm taking away from it the most is that not only is direct mail relevant, but if you bake it into your fundraising strategy in the right way if you're looking at it and engaging in the right way It has the potential to be revolutionary in terms of how you build the base.
• 45:40
  Becky Endicott: And we are here to stop the erosion of the base of support.
• 45:46
  Becky Endicott: And I just think that what you've given today is such a gift, Mike, I'm just so glad to call you my colleague, my friend. I think what you're adding to this world in your part and all around is just wonderful. Please come back on the show. We want to have you back.
• 46:02
  Mike Duerksen: Oh, man, I'd love to thanks. Thanks for having me.
• 46:04
  Mike Duerksen: This This was a blast.
• 46:06
  Jonathan McCoy: Thanks for joining us. Today's episode was brought to you by our good friends at auth zero. Without zero your nonprofit can do more with a login box. Greet prospects and rabid fans of your mission with authenticity simply make it easier for your team to manage data. There's so much at Oxy ro login experience can do.
• 46:20
  Jonathan McCoy: Visit auth zero.org For more info.
• 46:25
  Becky Endicott: If you enjoyed this episode, we know you'll love being part of the we're for good community. It's like our own social network where you can find like minded friends ask questions, share resources and find inspiration anytime. Sign up today at we are for good.com backslash hello thanks friends.