Latest / Heaven & Healing Podcast / Deliverance Can’t Finish What Inner Healing Won’t Start w/ ⁨@TailahOfficial⁩

Transcript

Deliverance Can’t Finish What Inner Healing Won’t Start w/ ⁨@TailahOfficial⁩ · Heaven & Healing Podcast

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, welcome back. Today I have
• 0:02
  a returning guest, Taylor Scrogggins.
• 0:04
  She is an evangelist, she is a minister,
• 0:06
  she is an author and most importantly
• 0:09
  she is a extremely dear friend and
• 0:12
  sister in Christ who has actually helped
• 0:14
  me a lot on my own journey when it comes
• 0:17
  to the conversation of deliverance and
• 0:19
  inner healing which is what we are going
• 0:21
  to be talking about today. So Taylor,
• 0:24
  welcome back.
• 0:25
  >> Thanks for having me back. It's always
• 0:27
  so exciting to be back and I love just
• 0:30
  sitting and talking with you and just
• 0:33
  hashing these deep things of God out.
• 0:36
  It's sometimes it can feel isolating I
• 0:38
  think like on our Christian walk and
• 0:41
  friendships and we don't always feel
• 0:43
  like we can have friends that we can
• 0:44
  talk about these things with. And so I
• 0:47
  just value you so much and like who you
• 0:49
  are in my life and that we can sit down
• 0:51
  and talk about the deep things of the
• 0:53
  Lord together. It really, your
• 0:55
  friendship has really blessed me a lot.
• 0:57
  >> Praise God. Me too. Um, I wanted to just
• 1:00
  start very briefly if you could hash out
• 1:03
  a few minutes uh what your testimony is
• 1:06
  just for anybody that's like a new
• 1:08
  subscriber to Heaven and Healing that
• 1:09
  has not seen you on the show before. And
• 1:11
  with that, tell me why you were led to
• 1:16
  write your book, Breaking Demonic
• 1:17
  Chains, because I think that's just a
• 1:19
  really incredible segue for what we're
• 1:22
  going to be talking about today. Yeah, I
• 1:23
  love that question too because I mean
• 1:26
  the testimony of why, you know what I
• 1:28
  mean? Why write the book and what God
• 1:30
  did in my life. And so, um, I grew up in
• 1:32
  church. I was raised in a Christian
• 1:35
  home, um, good Christian home in
• 1:38
  wonderful churches, spiritfilled
• 1:40
  churches. I was around spiritual gifts
• 1:42
  and real authentic Christianity. And I
• 1:45
  did see the power of God my whole life.
• 1:48
  Um, the only thing was I grew up in a
• 1:50
  home that was, yes, the spiritual gifts
• 1:53
  were there, but there was a little bit
• 1:55
  of legalism in the home too. And so we
• 1:58
  were very like, don't watch Harry
• 2:01
  Potter, don't watch Disney Channel.
• 2:03
  Uhhuh.
• 2:03
  >> Okay. Cuz I was going to ask you like
• 2:04
  what that looks like, what the legalism
• 2:06
  looks like. And
• 2:07
  >> Yeah.
• 2:08
  >> Maybe you can talk even later like kind
• 2:09
  of how to find that healthy balance.
• 2:12
  >> Yes. Yeah. And even things like you're
• 2:15
  not allowed to date, like you're not
• 2:16
  even allowed to have crushes. Like, and
• 2:18
  it was all coming from obviously my
• 2:20
  parents had the best, one of the best
• 2:22
  for me, and had good godly intentions.
• 2:25
  But sometimes when it can be so
• 2:27
  authoritarian and strict, it obviously,
• 2:29
  you know, psychologically makes the kids
• 2:32
  be more curious and want to rebel and be
• 2:34
  like, well, why can't I do that? And
• 2:36
  then when the parents aren't equipped
• 2:37
  with, hey, this is what the Bible says.
• 2:39
  This is why we don't watch That's So
• 2:41
  Raven because psychic mediumship is
• 2:43
  demonic because that like I didn't get
• 2:45
  those kinds of answers. I don't know
• 2:47
  that I would have listened to them, but
• 2:48
  I didn't get them nonetheless. And so it
• 2:50
  just felt like a lot of rules and like
• 2:52
  taboo. And so I'd be like, "Well, why? I
• 2:54
  want to know what's I always had a
• 2:56
  hunger for the supernatural and the
• 2:58
  spiritual." And I always loved God, but
• 3:00
  there was almost like a do not enter
• 3:02
  sign over the darker kind of stuff. And
• 3:04
  I was like, "Well, what's back there?"
• 3:06
  Even as like a 5-year-old kid. Um, and
• 3:09
  so that kind of lingered and stayed
• 3:11
  there. I grew up in the church. And then
• 3:14
  around middle school, just like every,
• 3:17
  you know, awkward tween, you know, you
• 3:19
  start getting self-conscious. I develop
• 3:21
  an eating disorder. I don't know that
• 3:23
  it's a spirit. So this thing starts
• 3:25
  whispering to me. I think it's my own
• 3:26
  thoughts. And it's like, well, just
• 3:28
  don't eat and starve yourself. And so I
• 3:30
  come into agreement with that. I develop
• 3:31
  an eating disorder. I'm going to an all
• 3:34
  girls school at this time. And then I
• 3:37
  youth group starts. I start going to
• 3:38
  youth group because there's boys there.
• 3:40
  I did not really care about the church
• 3:42
  thing. I'm like, "Oh, there's boys." So,
• 3:45
  I encounter God in this youth group,
• 3:46
  though. And this is the first time I
• 3:49
  really see the power of God moving. I'm
• 3:51
  seeing I'm praying for people and and
• 3:53
  other people are too, and seeing
• 3:54
  healings. Um, didn't see like
• 3:56
  deliverance in the youth group that
• 3:58
  really wasn't taught, but saw miraculous
• 4:01
  healings, a lot of salvations, spiritual
• 4:03
  gifts, impartation. It was such such an
• 4:06
  onfire for God youth ministry. And I
• 4:09
  really even some of the stuff that like
• 4:11
  I minister and operate now that that was
• 4:13
  seeds planted when I was in like 8th
• 4:15
  grade, 9th grade, 10th grade in that
• 4:17
  youth group. Um and so around this time
• 4:20
  when I'm learning about the real things
• 4:22
  of God, the authentic. Um my dad comes
• 4:26
  home with an astrology book. Um and he
• 4:29
  starts telling me about astrology. He
• 4:30
  grew up Muslim. He got saved, but he
• 4:33
  never got delivered. Wow.
• 4:35
  >> Yeah. So, there's all that I've been
• 4:37
  learning about Islam lately,
• 4:39
  >> dude.
• 4:39
  >> And like making the connection that your
• 4:41
  dad was interested in astrology when
• 4:44
  having never been delivered
• 4:45
  >> right
• 4:46
  >> from those Islamic spirits. That is
• 4:48
  crazy actually the correlation.
• 4:50
  >> Well, it it goes even like it's so
• 4:53
  ancient because before there was Islam
• 4:55
  like so I'm Persian Iranian everything
• 4:58
  going on in Iran too. So Islam took over
• 5:00
  Iran before that was they were
• 5:02
  Zorastrian and that's like Mesopotamia.
• 5:05
  So like when you get like Egypt,
• 5:07
  Israelites, like the Assyrians, like in
• 5:10
  the Old Testament, all those false gods
• 5:12
  and goddesses, those are all like the
• 5:14
  same demon gods, Elohim that um they're
• 5:18
  all worshiped just with different names.
• 5:20
  And so astrology is connected with that
• 5:22
  stuff. Like Islam, the prince of Persia,
• 5:24
  it's literally like a demonic melting
• 5:26
  pot. You know, I had I talked about
• 5:29
  this. I don't know if you saw my video
• 5:30
  with Andrew Andrew Sedra. I had like the
• 5:34
  um the crescent
• 5:35
  >> like that's on like that represents
• 5:37
  Islam, right?
• 5:38
  >> The moon and the star like the crescent,
• 5:40
  whatever. I had that on a necklace
• 5:42
  because I just thought it was like so
• 5:43
  cool. I had it on a blanket. I had it on
• 5:45
  a tapestry. I had no idea it was even
• 5:47
  associated with Islam. But it was just
• 5:50
  interesting again in hindsight to see
• 5:52
  that connection and how those gods,
• 5:55
  those principalities, those demons are
• 5:57
  all so entrenched within this
• 5:59
  conversation. But anyway, that's just
• 6:01
  like a caveat.
• 6:02
  >> No, no, it's important to talk about
• 6:03
  because these were the spirits that were
• 6:05
  influencing me at that time. It's part
• 6:08
  of my testimony and it's familiar
• 6:09
  spirits. It came in through my dad and
• 6:12
  so it wasn't just Islam. He grew up
• 6:14
  Islam. That was open door. But then he's
• 6:15
  bringing in astrology and then he starts
• 6:18
  listening to different gurus. Um he like
• 6:20
  loved sad guru and would always play his
• 6:23
  videos in the house and me and my mom
• 6:24
  would walk by and be like who is this
• 6:26
  creepy guru you're listening to? And my
• 6:28
  parents would get in fights about it and
• 6:30
  so tumultuous like even in the home my
• 6:32
  parents would argue and my mom would be
• 6:34
  like Jesus is the only one true god and
• 6:36
  my dad would be like no there's many
• 6:37
  paths to god Islam Judaism Christianity
• 6:41
  we all worship the same god. So this was
• 6:44
  I was confused in this area for sure cuz
• 6:46
  I'm going to church and I'm seeing God
• 6:48
  move. But then my dad who I love and I
• 6:50
  trust and he is a smart guy and he's the
• 6:52
  head of the house.
• 6:53
  >> Yes. The priest of the home is being
• 6:55
  deceived. And so it literally he gets
• 6:57
  into universalism. He's not Muslim. He
• 7:00
  was into like just studying all these
• 7:02
  different religions. And so then this
• 7:05
  hasn't opened door to me because the
• 7:07
  head of our household is in sin. And so
• 7:09
  then I start doing yoga. I'm just drawn
• 7:12
  to yoga out of nowhere now. Obviously,
• 7:14
  it's not out of nowhere. So, yeah, I get
• 7:17
  into yoga and that's like how I live for
• 7:20
  a while. One foot in, one foot out. Then
• 7:22
  I get to college and I just full on
• 7:25
  chose rebellion at that point. I was
• 7:27
  disappointed in God. I was believing for
• 7:30
  just certain things in my life to happen
• 7:32
  and I got disappointed. And so then I
• 7:34
  was like, well, I don't trust God
• 7:35
  anymore. It was just an immature
• 7:38
  faith thing of like God's not a vending
• 7:41
  machine. And I had made an idol out of
• 7:43
  my dreams and out of this like record
• 7:45
  deal that I had wanted to happen. And I
• 7:47
  felt like God opened the door to the
• 7:48
  dream and then shut it. And so then I'm
• 7:50
  like, well, you're not a good father
• 7:52
  because you did that to me on purpose,
• 7:54
  whatever lies I was believing. So I'm
• 7:58
  like, well, I'm just going to I know the
• 7:59
  spiritual is real. I can't be an
• 8:01
  atheist. I've seen too much. So, I'm
• 8:03
  just going to do this thing on my own
• 8:05
  because I'm mad at God right now.
• 8:07
  >> Right.
• 8:07
  >> So, yeah. Then it was just like I'm
• 8:10
  ordering crystals. I am really diving
• 8:13
  into astrology. Like before I would look
• 8:15
  at my horoscopes and read about the
• 8:18
  archetypes, but then I started getting
• 8:20
  into like divination, like the birth
• 8:22
  chart and really like a lot of the stuff
• 8:24
  you were doing like the deeper parts of
• 8:26
  astrology and um I just started getting
• 8:29
  really into like divination at that
• 8:31
  point. So then I would numerology and I
• 8:33
  would look up all these numbers and my
• 8:35
  name and my birthday and the future that
• 8:38
  it had for me and um all of this like
• 8:42
  just the hole in my soul just kept
• 8:44
  getting I was just getting hungrier and
• 8:46
  hungrier and hungrier and my spirit was
• 8:48
  starving because what a lot of people
• 8:51
  who are not saved like their spirit's
• 8:52
  dead. You know what I mean? And then you
• 8:54
  encounter Christ and you believe in him
• 8:56
  and your spirit comes alive. My spirit
• 8:58
  was alive and then it was like starving
• 9:00
  and I felt so empty, so depressed. I had
• 9:03
  the authentic. I was living in sin, but
• 9:06
  I had the authentic. And then I turned
• 9:08
  away for the counterfeit. And I was
• 9:11
  partying. I was smoking weed, drinking,
• 9:14
  you know, just living like the college,
• 9:15
  new age party lifestyle. And um it was
• 9:19
  like fun for a while. And then the rug
• 9:21
  got pulled out from underneath me one
• 9:23
  day and I just got hit with depression,
• 9:25
  heaviness, sorrow. didn't have a will to
• 9:27
  live anymore. I just like was so empty.
• 9:31
  And at that point, God sent someone
• 9:32
  who's a family friend. She's like a
• 9:34
  spiritual mother to me. The Lord just
• 9:36
  told her to show up at my house one day
• 9:38
  and she did. And she did deliverance on
• 9:40
  me. And um that was my first of a few
• 9:42
  deliverance like sessions specifically
• 9:45
  after I'd gotten into all that stuff.
• 9:48
  Cuz deliverance is like we all need it.
• 9:49
  It's ongoing. But, you know, it's like
• 9:51
  when you get out of new age, you need a
• 9:53
  couple of like probably really good
• 9:55
  sessions and fasting to get a lot of
• 9:57
  that stuff you open yourself up to. So,
• 9:59
  that's kind of where I was for like the
• 10:01
  year after I got out of that. Um, but
• 10:04
  she but that was the first one. And
• 10:05
  after that first deliverance, I started
• 10:06
  going back to church again. And then
• 10:08
  like slowly God started revealing to me
• 10:10
  the truth about new age. And so, kind of
• 10:13
  when I had surrendered everything, he
• 10:15
  gave me the vision for the book. Um, and
• 10:18
  it kind of happened like in layers. Like
• 10:20
  when I gave my life completely back to
• 10:23
  the Lord, I had a vision of the cover of
• 10:26
  that book, but it was just a picture. I
• 10:28
  didn't know it was a book like sitting
• 10:30
  on a shelf in a store in Target. And I
• 10:33
  didn't know what it was. I thought it
• 10:34
  was maybe an album. And then over the
• 10:36
  years, like he just started putting this
• 10:38
  idea in my heart of like exposing
• 10:40
  everything, sharing my testimony, but
• 10:43
  teaching deliverance and freedom and how
• 10:45
  to close those doors because so many
• 10:47
  people have opened up those doors in the
• 10:49
  last few years. And so that's why I
• 10:51
  wrote the book. It's like everything
• 10:53
  that God has taught me about how to be
• 10:55
  free and walk in freedom and have a real
• 10:58
  relationship with him. And it's like I I
• 11:00
  basically told the Lord like if this is
• 11:01
  my only chance and only shot to like
• 11:04
  write a write something and release it
• 11:06
  into the world. If this is the one
• 11:08
  chance I get, I want to share everything
• 11:10
  that you have taught me, I want a an
• 11:12
  all-in-one manual on how to turn to
• 11:15
  Jesus, be filled with the spirit, get
• 11:17
  set free, deliverance, all that stuff,
• 11:20
  and and stay planted and walk with the
• 11:22
  Lord. So that's the heart behind it.
• 11:24
  >> Amen. And I know it's been such a
• 11:25
  blessing to people. And I love I
• 11:28
  whenever we go through your testimony,
• 11:29
  and I've heard it so many times, but it
• 11:30
  never gets old to me. And I love just
• 11:32
  kind of like reflecting on the contrast
• 11:35
  of our testimonies, how even though
• 11:37
  they're so different, they are also so
• 11:40
  similar because we were both just like
• 11:41
  looking for a way to really feel better.
• 11:45
  >> You Yeah. You felt almost rejected by
• 11:48
  God
• 11:49
  >> and I just felt rejected by the world.
• 11:51
  And so it's like well the only option
• 11:53
  here is to just take matters into my own
• 11:56
  hands
• 11:57
  >> and become my own god in whatever
• 11:58
  capacity that may look like.
• 12:01
  >> And that is the root of why anybody gets
• 12:06
  involved with new age whether they grew
• 12:07
  up in the church like you
• 12:09
  >> or they never knew the church like me
• 12:12
  and just you know you don't know better
• 12:14
  so you can't do better sort of thing.
• 12:16
  >> Yeah. Um now what I have found and you
• 12:19
  know this obviously what I have found is
• 12:22
  that so many exnewagers
• 12:25
  like they get saved right they get born
• 12:28
  again filled with the spirit they come
• 12:29
  out of that world where they have
• 12:31
  experienced so much of that counterfeit
• 12:35
  where now
• 12:36
  >> anything that we're discussing about
• 12:39
  deliverance you even saying oh sometimes
• 12:43
  it's more than one shot there's layers
• 12:46
  You have to have like really multiple
• 12:47
  intense deliverance sessions to get
• 12:50
  that. Even hearing something like that,
• 12:52
  someone's going to watch this and
• 12:54
  they're going to be like, "Oh, my
• 12:56
  discernment is telling me that's wrong."
• 12:57
  But it's not your discernment. It's
• 12:59
  actually your discomfort from the trauma
• 13:01
  you experienced in the new age.
• 13:02
  >> That's good. And so that sort of thing
• 13:05
  just happens where you walk out of so
• 13:10
  much trauma and deception where now
• 13:13
  >> you have trouble reconciling
• 13:16
  the fact that things like deliverance or
• 13:19
  inner healing is in fact
• 13:22
  >> biblical and is for the Christian.
• 13:25
  >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean even for me like
• 13:28
  >> still that word or those that
• 13:30
  combination of words inner healing
• 13:32
  >> like a little feels a little weird to
• 13:34
  even say that you know in the context of
• 13:36
  Christianity because of
• 13:38
  >> what I did and where I came from.
• 13:40
  >> Yeah. Um, so what what has been your
• 13:43
  experience with like seeing that just
• 13:45
  seeing people that come out of new age
• 13:47
  and how they have a resistance to these
• 13:50
  sorts of things, but then what happens
• 13:52
  when they're willing to lay down that
• 13:54
  resistance in humility and just like
• 13:56
  trust what the Lord has for them? I
• 13:58
  think it's always a good thing because
• 14:00
  like we live in such an outrage culture
• 14:03
  that like as soon as you see or hear
• 14:05
  something that doesn't sit well with you
• 14:08
  like you said you can immediately be
• 14:10
  like my discernment. But if you're
• 14:12
  having like a visceral reaction to
• 14:15
  something, you're probably being
• 14:17
  triggered by something
• 14:18
  >> flesh.
• 14:19
  >> Yeah. or trauma or pain or like a like I
• 14:23
  don't know like okay my husband he um he
• 14:26
  like hit his knee and he cut it really
• 14:28
  bad a couple days ago and it was like
• 14:30
  he's in pain and every time something
• 14:33
  touches it like he literally is like ah
• 14:35
  like he's it's still healing there's a
• 14:37
  wound there. Um, and so sometimes when
• 14:40
  we have reactions like that, it's not
• 14:42
  your discernment. You're getting your
• 14:44
  wound is getting triggered. Something's
• 14:45
  touching on that and you're having that
• 14:47
  reaction and your maybe your brain is
• 14:49
  trying to protect yourself.
• 14:50
  >> Good. That's so good.
• 14:51
  >> Cuz you don't want to go there.
• 14:52
  >> Um, so it's I think it's a good thing to
• 14:55
  if you're having like this kind of
• 14:56
  reaction to okay, don't call it inner
• 14:58
  healing, just call it healing. Like
• 15:00
  we're not married to vernacular. Like
• 15:02
  it's just Jesus. When Jesus shows up, he
• 15:04
  heals. That's what he does. And so you
• 15:07
  don't have to say, "Well, inner healing
• 15:08
  was a movement that started in the '9s
• 15:10
  with this preacher and that." We're you
• 15:12
  can throw all of that stuff out the
• 15:13
  window today because I'm not talking
• 15:15
  about a movement or a founder today.
• 15:17
  We're just talking about how we need to
• 15:19
  let Jesus into the wounded parts of our
• 15:21
  soul so we can be healed so we can walk
• 15:24
  in our calling so we can do the things
• 15:26
  that God's called us to do. So I mean,
• 15:28
  who wants to walk around like bleeding
• 15:30
  everywhere? M
• 15:31
  >> um so
• 15:32
  >> okay what's let's start with I guess
• 15:34
  what's the difference between
• 15:36
  deliverance and inner healing as you
• 15:38
  would call it.
• 15:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Um so I love this
• 15:42
  illustration and I have given it a few
• 15:45
  times of let's say that somebody shot
• 15:48
  you in the arm. Um and so you're going
• 15:50
  to go to the doctor. You're going to go
• 15:52
  to the emergency room and the first
• 15:54
  thing they're probably going to do is
• 15:55
  try to take out the foreign object,
• 15:57
  right? And so like I think of that and
• 15:59
  it doesn't have to be in this order but
• 16:01
  this is just an easy analogy. So he's
• 16:03
  going to take out the thing that doesn't
• 16:05
  belong there. It's not a part of you. So
• 16:07
  like there was a moment where that you
• 16:11
  know collision happened. You were
• 16:12
  wounded. That thing entered you. So you
• 16:14
  know a lot of times demons come in
• 16:16
  through trauma like we've talked about
• 16:17
  that. So you got to take that thing out.
• 16:20
  It's not a part of you. It doesn't
• 16:21
  belong there. So, what I'm seeing in
• 16:23
  like a lot of deliverance ministry
• 16:26
  that's happening and deliverance
• 16:27
  ministry is so needed is that they're
• 16:29
  taking out the bullet and they're okay
• 16:32
  like go on your merry way and then they
• 16:34
  you still have a open wound and when the
• 16:36
  wound is open things can get in it. You
• 16:38
  can it can get infected and you could be
• 16:40
  even worse off than you were before.
• 16:42
  Other stuff is going to come back in
• 16:43
  there. Um, and so it's like inner
• 16:46
  healing is I like to think of it as you
• 16:48
  know the doctor comes in putting the
• 16:50
  anti- you know bacterial on it stitching
• 16:53
  you back up and making sure the wound is
• 16:55
  closed and healed. And so sometimes it
• 16:58
  can happen at the same time like you can
• 17:00
  get delivered the Holy Spirit can just
• 17:02
  come upon you and start ministering to
• 17:04
  you. sometimes if you don't really I
• 17:07
  mean if you're just maybe newer to the
• 17:08
  things of God and maybe you need someone
• 17:11
  to walk you through that with praying
• 17:12
  with you and stuff you know like I had
• 17:14
  done with you one of the first times
• 17:16
  that I prayed for you and I had done to
• 17:19
  me the first time that I had someone
• 17:20
  pray like inner healing over me um and
• 17:22
  so that's like the best way that I can
• 17:25
  kind of describe it is one is you are
• 17:28
  casting out an entity that is not a part
• 17:30
  of you that is you know that is is an
• 17:34
  enemy to us, an enemy to our soul. Inner
• 17:36
  healing is inviting Jesus into wound,
• 17:39
  trauma, a place where we have been hurt
• 17:41
  and harmed and letting him touch it,
• 17:43
  giving him access. Cuz sometimes we like
• 17:46
  when you're wounded, you like don't come
• 17:48
  near me. Like think about a wounded
• 17:49
  animal like you know in an alley like
• 17:52
  it's going to like a wounded cat like
• 17:54
  you want to go and help it and it's like
• 17:55
  hissing at you and scratching at you.
• 17:57
  It's like get away. Um because we're
• 17:59
  trying to protect ourselves. So letting
• 18:00
  him in, giving him permission, and
• 18:02
  letting him minister to your heart,
• 18:04
  speak to you, speak truth over you. Um,
• 18:07
  and whatever he does in that moment,
• 18:09
  it's going to be healing. All the Bible
• 18:11
  says when Jesus would go to all the
• 18:12
  different towns, they brought all who
• 18:14
  were sick to him and all of them were
• 18:16
  healed. Like it's just who he is. He's
• 18:18
  not going to turn you away. Um, but
• 18:20
  we've got to give him access. We've got
• 18:22
  to give him permission.
• 18:23
  >> Yeah. So, okay, I will share um my
• 18:26
  experience with this because I've never
• 18:29
  really told this story before. Uh
• 18:30
  because I know there is like a taboo
• 18:32
  just around this subject that I just
• 18:36
  frankly don't care about anymore because
• 18:38
  I've seen I've seen the power of God
• 18:40
  move, you know, and I've seen Yeah. The
• 18:41
  fruit. the very first time that you
• 18:44
  prayed deliverance over me, you kind of
• 18:46
  invited me into that where you were
• 18:48
  like, you know, I don't remember, you
• 18:50
  know, this happened before I was even
• 18:52
  married and now I'm pregnant with my
• 18:54
  second kid. So, the details are a little
• 18:56
  murky,
• 18:57
  >> but I just remember, you know, we're
• 18:59
  like in the parking lot cuz we got
• 19:00
  kicked out of the building cuz we were
• 19:01
  there so long praying. Um, and I was
• 19:04
  like on the ground and you were casting
• 19:06
  the demons out and then it gets to a
• 19:08
  point where I think you had discerned
• 19:10
  that, you know, first of all, it was my
• 19:12
  first experience with deliverance. You
• 19:14
  knew the trauma that I had from new age
• 19:17
  and it was pretty intense for me. And so
• 19:19
  I think you just discerned like it's
• 19:21
  probably time to back off like the
• 19:23
  casting out right now.
• 19:24
  >> It was like 10:00 at night, too.
• 19:26
  >> It was just there's a lot. It was a lot.
• 19:28
  Um, and that was not my last deliverance
• 19:30
  either. But you kind of started to round
• 19:32
  out with uh basically you you did that
• 19:36
  exact thing. You invited Jesus. You said
• 19:38
  like I really I want you to just
• 19:40
  >> think about or ask the Lord,
• 19:43
  >> you know, to reveal to you a time when
• 19:46
  the whatever one of the most traumatic
• 19:48
  experiences of your life basically.
• 19:50
  >> Um let him reveal that to you. Let him
• 19:53
  show you, you know, when he was there.
• 19:56
  And I instantly got this visual of
• 20:00
  myself in daycare, which was my first
• 20:04
  and only experience in daycare. My
• 20:07
  grandom started to watch me after this
• 20:09
  um fiasco. My mom tried to drop me off
• 20:12
  and I was so terrified of her leaving. I
• 20:16
  I was just completely struck with
• 20:20
  anxiety and fear and anger, all of these
• 20:24
  things. It's such a visceral memory of
• 20:26
  mine. Uh just just just how
• 20:30
  terrified I was. Like don't leave. Why
• 20:32
  are you leaving? You can't leave. I
• 20:34
  can't be alone.
• 20:35
  >> And I went up to the window when she
• 20:37
  finally left because she was like just
• 20:39
  like ripped the band-aid. Just going to
• 20:40
  go. She had to go uh to class. And so
• 20:44
  I'm standing at the window with my face
• 20:45
  like smashed against the glass like
• 20:47
  whailing like a three-year-old. I was
• 20:49
  like Bobby. And she drives away. And and
• 20:52
  that's what he brought to mind which
• 20:53
  it's
• 20:54
  You know, it's not the worst thing I've
• 20:56
  ever been through, but that's what he
• 20:59
  brought to mind. And he showed me I had
• 21:01
  a vision of him where I couldn't see his
• 21:04
  face, but I saw
• 21:06
  >> I saw just like the bottom half of him
• 21:08
  approach me at the glass and like lean
• 21:11
  down in front of me and put his hands
• 21:13
  over mine, like over top of me and when
• 21:15
  I'm like through the glass.
• 21:17
  >> And I I can't explain what that did. I
• 21:20
  just know it healed something.
• 21:22
  >> Yeah. Because as I'm writing my book,
• 21:24
  which is different than yours, yours is,
• 21:26
  you know, teaching testimony kind of
• 21:28
  cocktail. Mine is purely testimonial.
• 21:31
  Um, I had a revelation that that was the
• 21:35
  day I received a spirit of anxiety.
• 21:38
  >> Like that's the day the demon came in.
• 21:41
  >> Wow.
• 21:42
  >> And so the demon was cast out. But also
• 21:45
  Jesus came to show me I wasn't actually
• 21:47
  alone in that moment. And he wants to
• 21:49
  heal the wound.
• 21:50
  >> Yeah. where the demon had access to come
• 21:53
  through that day.
• 21:54
  >> Yeah.
• 21:54
  >> And so, yeah, that was that's always
• 21:57
  stuck with me and that's the one and
• 21:59
  only experience I've ever had um with
• 22:03
  what we're calling inner healing. That
• 22:04
  was the only time.
• 22:06
  >> And um yeah, I mean it it was profound.
• 22:11
  >> And so
• 22:13
  I guess from there I'll I'll just ask
• 22:15
  you like why why what has been your
• 22:18
  experience with that? like do do you
• 22:20
  have any testimonies of
• 22:22
  things similar that you that Jesus has
• 22:25
  led you through and what the fruit of
• 22:26
  that has been for you?
• 22:28
  >> Yes. So, I had shadowed a prophet the
• 22:32
  first time I ever even I I went to like
• 22:35
  a a ministry intensive years ago and um
• 22:39
  basically they had let me shadow like
• 22:41
  the elder prophet teacher because it was
• 22:45
  at that time where my TikTok was really
• 22:46
  blowing up and I kind of just like got
• 22:48
  thrown in I don't want to say thrown
• 22:50
  because it I wanted to be in ministry
• 22:53
  but stuff just kind of like took off and
• 22:55
  I was like I really want more training.
• 22:58
  um I don't just want to like just sit
• 23:00
  here and like yap about my ideas. And so
• 23:02
  the church that I was in like let me do
• 23:05
  all of that and it was such a blessing.
• 23:06
  And so I had kind of um followed this
• 23:09
  elder and prophet like around and
• 23:13
  watched how he and his wife had like
• 23:15
  prayed and done um in her healing and
• 23:18
  led people through and how they would
• 23:19
  minister to them. And it's not a
• 23:21
  formula, but that's all he would do is
• 23:22
  just invite people into like, "Hey,
• 23:24
  we're gonna let Jesus into this wound,
• 23:27
  into a memory, a fear, a any area of you
• 23:30
  that is hurting, we're going to say,
• 23:31
  "Come Jesus." And like, "What's he
• 23:33
  saying to you? What is he how is he
• 23:35
  revealing himself to you?" One girl, she
• 23:37
  had Jesus appear to her like a lamb. And
• 23:41
  it had it was just beautiful. And so, it
• 23:44
  was just um a a really cool thing to
• 23:46
  see. And he had prayed for me. And I had
• 23:48
  received some healing from like father
• 23:50
  wounds that I had um at that time. And
• 23:52
  so since I learned that I was like okay
• 23:55
  I don't need somebody to guide me
• 23:58
  through a a meditation or a visit. I
• 24:00
  don't need another person there. Like
• 24:02
  the first time obviously I needed to see
• 24:04
  how people were were ministering to
• 24:07
  broken people. Um, but then after that I
• 24:09
  was like, "Okay, so anytime I'm feeling
• 24:12
  pain or trauma or sad, like anytime I
• 24:15
  feel this way, I can just invite Jesus
• 24:18
  into it." And so I live this. So like
• 24:21
  >> anytime where I'm really feeling like
• 24:23
  low or alone or sad, like I invite Jesus
• 24:26
  with me wherever I am. But there are
• 24:29
  definitely like specific times where
• 24:31
  there's been real breakthrough. Like I
• 24:34
  told you this like two weeks ago I was
• 24:36
  at church and I started getting
• 24:40
  triggered in worship. Like I just
• 24:42
  started having these thoughts um about
• 24:46
  I don't know like man I really wish that
• 24:50
  some of my relationships in my life like
• 24:52
  family and friends and things like that
• 24:54
  had more depth. Like I was getting upset
• 24:57
  over stuff in while this was gone and I
• 24:59
  was like okay pause. Lord, why am I
• 25:02
  getting triggered right now? Why am I
• 25:04
  thinking about this? Why am I getting
• 25:05
  frustrated? Why am I, you know, I I it's
• 25:09
  really hard to explain, but I told you I
• 25:11
  felt like there was I was at a capacity
• 25:14
  for intimacy with people, with
• 25:16
  vulnerability, with intimacy. Like I
• 25:18
  could only go and it was deep water, but
• 25:21
  it wasn't it was like I couldn't go in
• 25:24
  past my shoulders. And I had wanted to
• 25:26
  go deeper with the Lord, deeper with
• 25:28
  friends, deeper with family. Like I am
• 25:31
  not someone who's content with shallow
• 25:33
  conversations. I actually get kind of
• 25:35
  annoyed if I go and I'm hanging out with
• 25:37
  a friend and we're sitting in a coffee
• 25:39
  shop and we're talking about the weather
• 25:40
  and stuff. I'm like, "That's not why I
• 25:42
  wanted to come and hang out with you
• 25:43
  today. I want to know how you are. I
• 25:45
  want to know what God is teaching you."
• 25:46
  That doesn't um
• 25:48
  >> like be my spirit, I guess.
• 25:50
  >> Doesn't fill you up.
• 25:52
  >> Yeah. And so, um, I have been frustrated
• 25:54
  with myself of like I want more out of
• 25:57
  life, out of my relationships, but I
• 26:00
  literally, it was like I couldn't go
• 26:02
  past it. Something was holding me back.
• 26:04
  And so, um, and with the Lord, too.
• 26:06
  Like, I had been asking for more
• 26:08
  encounters, for deeper encounters, and
• 26:11
  he would give me some, and then I would
• 26:14
  have an amazing encounter with the Lord,
• 26:16
  and I would just go back to life as
• 26:18
  normal. And I It was so weird, Angela. I
• 26:21
  can't explain it. but like I just
• 26:23
  couldn't go past a certain place. And so
• 26:25
  I said, "Lord, what's going on? Like
• 26:27
  Jesus, why is this happening? I don't
• 26:29
  want this." And he basically revealed to
• 26:31
  me that I had a fear of intimacy, but I
• 26:34
  didn't know that I had it because when
• 26:36
  you're shoulder deep, you think you're
• 26:37
  in deep, but you're not submerged. You
• 26:40
  can tell there's a threshold. And so I
• 26:42
  said, "Okay, you know, fear of maybe
• 26:47
  being totally seen and totally known and
• 26:50
  then maybe there's some fear of
• 26:51
  rejection there or fear I'm going to be
• 26:53
  disappointed or let down or or whatever
• 26:56
  all the things that come with fear of
• 26:58
  intimacy." Um, and so I basically was
• 27:01
  like, "Jesus, I'm sorry for keeping you
• 27:05
  at an arms length." I didn't even know
• 27:06
  that I was doing it. And it just kept
• 27:08
  felt like I was hitting an invisible
• 27:09
  wall. Yeah.
• 27:10
  >> And so I repented for doing that. And I
• 27:14
  was like, I want all of you, Lord, and I
• 27:16
  want you to have all of me. I don't want
• 27:18
  any kind of protective barriers or walls
• 27:21
  or thresholds or um boundaries that I've
• 27:24
  put up um of due to fear. And so when I
• 27:28
  did that um I just like felt his
• 27:31
  presence engulf me. And like you had
• 27:35
  mentioned in your thing, it was just
• 27:37
  this
• 27:38
  >> healing moment where I could literally
• 27:40
  just feel like a part of my soul healing
• 27:42
  and I was crying and then at the same
• 27:45
  time the worship leader is singing, you
• 27:48
  know, I'm no longer a slave to fear. I'm
• 27:50
  a child of God. And then she when this
• 27:52
  is happening um she stops singing and
• 27:56
  she starts literally going into like
• 27:59
  singing deliverance. She's like I break
• 28:00
  fear of intimacy off of you. like
• 28:03
  literally exactly and now I'm like
• 28:05
  weeping and I'm crying. So in that
• 28:07
  moment like he did heal me and then like
• 28:09
  literally the minister started like
• 28:11
  supernaturally word of knowledge
• 28:12
  breaking things off. So it's not that
• 28:14
  these things are separate what we're
• 28:16
  talking about. But we should acknowledge
• 28:18
  the fact that like if you do get
• 28:20
  something cast out go and make sure
• 28:22
  there's something there's a wound that's
• 28:24
  been healed if that's even there.
• 28:25
  Sometimes there's not a wound there,
• 28:27
  right? Um, and so that was an experience
• 28:30
  I had very recently and I have just felt
• 28:33
  so much more free and open to share. Um,
• 28:38
  I sometimes I would not want to talk
• 28:40
  about hard things or do confrontations.
• 28:43
  And I'm still, you know, there's layers
• 28:45
  to all this stuff, but I feel a lot more
• 28:47
  comfortable like bringing a harder
• 28:50
  conversation up or a deeper conversation
• 28:52
  talking more about, hey, this made me
• 28:54
  feel that way or I don't know, just um
• 28:57
  less um scared or
• 29:01
  >> guarded or timid to bring up stuff
• 29:03
  that's really emotional. Um because
• 29:06
  sometimes like, "Oh, I don't want to
• 29:07
  bring all that up or I don't want to
• 29:09
  >> all of the things we tell ourselves
• 29:12
  >> to." Yeah,
• 29:13
  >> I love that. Um while you were talking,
• 29:15
  I was thinking about how um you know,
• 29:18
  cuz there's the extreme where people are
• 29:21
  like, "Christians can't have demons.
• 29:23
  That's not a demon. That's your flesh."
• 29:25
  Sort of thing. But then sometimes we
• 29:27
  make the mistake of swinging to the
• 29:29
  opposite end of the pendulum where it's
• 29:30
  like everything's a demon. So the moment
• 29:32
  you experience opposition in any
• 29:35
  capacity, it's like, what do I need cast
• 29:38
  out of me? What demon is this? You know,
• 29:40
  and that, ironically enough, can
• 29:42
  actually create an open door to a spirit
• 29:44
  of fear that can come in because you're
• 29:46
  like so obsessed with
• 29:48
  >> what spirits do I need cast out?
• 29:50
  >> Um, so how do you how do you like
• 29:52
  discern the difference if it's a demon
• 29:55
  or if it's just a matter of like a soul
• 29:58
  fragment or a wound or or whatever?
• 30:02
  You really need to be self-aware and you
• 30:05
  really need to be in tune with the Holy
• 30:06
  Spirit. There are,
• 30:10
  you know, I don't really have like the
• 30:11
  perfect answer, but what I can tell you
• 30:13
  from what's worked with me is like
• 30:14
  trying to be as self-aware as I can of
• 30:17
  like I wouldn't have had that amazing
• 30:19
  encounter and healing with God if I did
• 30:21
  pause and say, "Why am I getting upset
• 30:23
  right now? Why am I getting triggered?"
• 30:25
  And I I didn't just search my own mind.
• 30:27
  I said, "God, what's going on? Can you
• 30:29
  reveal to me what's happening? And so
• 30:32
  that's the best advice I can give
• 30:33
  someone is if you're feeling triggered,
• 30:36
  wounded, frustrated, hurt, you're going
• 30:38
  into a panic attack over something,
• 30:40
  pause and ask God why. He wants you to
• 30:43
  heal. I believe if you just quiet down
• 30:46
  and you pray, you close your like just
• 30:48
  quiet down and just listen and wait, I
• 30:51
  think he's going to speak to you and
• 30:52
  reveal it to you. Why would he hold out
• 30:54
  on you? You know what I mean? And and
• 30:56
  the thing is he won't because it will
• 30:58
  lead to more intimacy with him. Yeah.
• 31:01
  Right. Because like our wounds keep us
• 31:02
  guarded and keep us from getting into
• 31:05
  those deeper places with the Lord. We if
• 31:08
  we are wounded and we're scared and
• 31:09
  we're not letting the Lord in, how can
• 31:12
  we get closer to him, you know?
• 31:14
  >> Yeah.
• 31:15
  >> It's wow. There's so many layers that I
• 31:17
  feel like we could go into. We're
• 31:19
  already like veering off like where I
• 31:20
  didn't even think we were going to go,
• 31:22
  which I love. Um, I love when that
• 31:24
  happens, especially when we pray the way
• 31:25
  we did before we sat down.
• 31:27
  >> Yeah.
• 31:27
  >> Lord, I want this to go in your
• 31:29
  direction, not mine, you know? Yeah.
• 31:30
  >> Kind of thing. Um, I'm thinking about
• 31:32
  how I have in a in a different way been
• 31:37
  experiencing sort of the same thing
• 31:39
  >> with God just in the whole conversation
• 31:42
  of trusting him and what that looks like
• 31:45
  and what he is
• 31:46
  >> seeking from me in this process. You
• 31:49
  know, like Lord, I want to be closer to
• 31:51
  you. Lord, I want to know you. Lord, I
• 31:53
  want more encounters with you. Lord, if
• 31:54
  there's like if there's like a prophecy
• 31:57
  thing here, if there's a prophetic thing
• 31:58
  here, I I I do want that. I I don't want
• 32:01
  to be bogged down by the trauma I
• 32:05
  experienced in the new age when those
• 32:06
  gifts were being perverted. Like, I want
• 32:08
  all that you have for me. And this has
• 32:10
  been a very long process. I'm talking
• 32:12
  like
• 32:14
  at this point, I've been saved for over
• 32:16
  four years, but this particular element
• 32:18
  of our walk has been like 2 years
• 32:20
  ongoing of just him slowly peeling back
• 32:23
  the layers of that onion and showing me
• 32:26
  where I have been afraid or where I have
• 32:29
  been unwilling to just go deeper and to
• 32:33
  trust him fully with all that he has for
• 32:36
  me, whether it be the gifts or whether
• 32:38
  it be the healing. Um,
• 32:40
  >> okay. Can I say this? They're they're
• 32:42
  like it's not they're together.
• 32:45
  Prophecy, true prophecy flows from
• 32:48
  intimacy,
• 32:49
  >> but you can't have intimacy if you're
• 32:51
  not healed.
• 32:52
  >> Yes.
• 32:53
  >> You know, so in the process of healing,
• 32:57
  like I love we can just talk about
• 32:59
  healing all day because when you're
• 33:01
  healing with the Lord and you're
• 33:03
  inviting him in to the wounded parts of
• 33:05
  you, he is literally you're building
• 33:08
  history with God in that moment. like he
• 33:10
  is showing up. You don't go to a doctor
• 33:14
  or like a I don't know like what am I
• 33:16
  trying to say here? You you have
• 33:17
  confidence and faith in your doctor most
• 33:20
  people because you've shown up they've
• 33:21
  helped you before your your doula or
• 33:24
  whoever like you know what I'm saying
• 33:25
  you have confidence and trust in them
• 33:27
  because they've showed up and they've
• 33:29
  helped you through stuff. And so when we
• 33:31
  go to God for this and he keeps showing
• 33:33
  up as a father, as a healer, you're
• 33:35
  building history with the Lord. You're
• 33:37
  building intimacy. you're building trust
• 33:39
  and then okay like there's so many
• 33:42
  people wounded prophets that are running
• 33:44
  around and when you are a wounded
• 33:46
  prophet God gives the gifts without
• 33:48
  repentance but when you're wounded you
• 33:51
  could be listening to your own triggers
• 33:53
  your own trauma your own soul wounded
• 33:56
  fleshly thought you could be influenced
• 33:58
  by a spirit because hello when you've
• 34:00
  got a big open wound it's so easy for
• 34:02
  stuff to enter through that door um and
• 34:06
  because trauma is a door you know what I
• 34:08
  mean It's not it's not always sin.
• 34:09
  Sometimes it's trauma cuz the devil
• 34:11
  doesn't fight fair. And so a lot of
• 34:14
  these wounded prophets are running
• 34:15
  around and maybe they are hearing a word
• 34:17
  from the Lord, but it's tainted. Like
• 34:19
  it's literally like you could be
• 34:21
  speaking truth, but then like you're
• 34:23
  like, why am I sensing so much like
• 34:26
  anger or so much like bitterness like in
• 34:28
  this prophet? Maybe they are saying
• 34:30
  something that's accurate, but it's
• 34:31
  tainted because of their own like
• 34:33
  unhealed stuff that they have. And so
• 34:35
  it's so important for us to be healed
• 34:38
  >> because it's getting filtered through
• 34:39
  the wound instead of like the
• 34:41
  restoration and the reconciliation
• 34:43
  >> exactly
• 34:44
  >> that Jesus provides.
• 34:46
  >> I saw this really good podcast clip.
• 34:49
  Forgive me, I don't remember who it was
• 34:51
  from, but they said like Jesus even when
• 34:55
  he was on the cross and even when he was
• 34:57
  in pain, he didn't act out of that pain.
• 35:01
  Like he didn't lash out at people. He
• 35:03
  was still so compassionate, so
• 35:05
  forgiving, so kind even when he was like
• 35:07
  being beaten and hung and wounded and
• 35:09
  all of that. He didn't use that pain as
• 35:13
  an excuse to like, you know, lash out at
• 35:15
  people or any of that. And so, I mean,
• 35:17
  that's that's who we're following, you
• 35:20
  know, and so get healed.
• 35:21
  >> Yeah. It's so important,
• 35:24
  man. And I wanted to I I did want to
• 35:26
  talk about why why you think just in
• 35:29
  your own experience um why you think and
• 35:32
  I can share my thoughts too exnewagers
• 35:34
  are so afraid of this. Obviously it's
• 35:37
  the trauma. Um, I guess really more
• 35:40
  specifically too, why why do you think
• 35:42
  the devil works so hard to make sure ex
• 35:45
  newagers are afraid of deliverance and
• 35:47
  that they are afraid of
• 35:51
  healing, of inviting God in, of of
• 35:53
  having visions, of of receiving
• 35:55
  prophetic images. You know, for me, I I
• 35:59
  shared that that experience that you led
• 36:03
  me through. That was the one and only
• 36:05
  time I ever had something like that
• 36:07
  happen. And within the recent weeks,
• 36:10
  I've been questioning like, well, why?
• 36:12
  Like, God, why is why was that the one
• 36:15
  time where you took me back into a
• 36:19
  space? And and he said, well, it's
• 36:20
  because that's the only time you've
• 36:21
  really let me. And so, just going back
• 36:23
  to this whole thing of like trusting
• 36:25
  him. You have to give him permission
• 36:26
  >> and giving him permission and allowing
• 36:29
  him to heal me in in ways that maybe I'm
• 36:34
  not even aware of yet that that that
• 36:36
  need to be looked at. But it has to come
• 36:38
  from the willingness. And what what I
• 36:41
  see a lot is that there just frankly is
• 36:43
  an unwillingness from people that come
• 36:45
  out of this lifestyle because they have
• 36:46
  spent so much time trying to heal
• 36:48
  already that now it's like you come to
• 36:50
  Christ, you expect like your fingers to
• 36:52
  be snapped and everything's healed.
• 36:54
  like, well, the cross completed it. Now
• 36:56
  anything that I struggle with is just
• 36:57
  because like we're in a fallen world and
• 36:59
  I'm in my flesh and I have to wait for
• 37:00
  my glorified body. But I just do not see
• 37:02
  a precedent for that in scripture where
• 37:04
  it's like we just now we get saved, we
• 37:06
  get born again, we get filled with the
• 37:07
  spirit of God and now we sit on our
• 37:09
  hands and wait for the bell to ring and
• 37:10
  then we get to go to heaven someday
• 37:11
  where we live in perfect peace. It's
• 37:13
  like what about the whole prayer on
• 37:16
  earth as it is in heaven, you know, and
• 37:18
  my my kingdom has come now. The kingdom
• 37:20
  is upon us and the kingdom is within us
• 37:22
  when we are born again. And so there is
• 37:24
  a responsibility. And I think when
• 37:28
  ex-newagers come to Christ, they
• 37:31
  inadvertently,
• 37:32
  subliminally want to allocate that
• 37:36
  responsibility elsewhere because they're
• 37:39
  frankly tired. They're they're tired of
• 37:42
  the responsibility that they took on in
• 37:45
  the new age, which actually wasn't
• 37:46
  responsibility because it was a burden.
• 37:49
  >> And with Christ, we have rest. But we do
• 37:51
  still have a duty
• 37:54
  >> to walk out this thing, right? Walk out
• 37:57
  our salvation.
• 37:58
  >> Yeah.
• 37:59
  >> And so, I don't know, I just went on a
• 38:00
  tangent, but
• 38:01
  >> it was good
• 38:02
  >> that that's kind of just what I've
• 38:03
  witnessed is that there's there's
• 38:06
  >> there's an unwillingness because they
• 38:08
  are burdened, they are weary, and then
• 38:09
  there is a fear because they've been
• 38:11
  deceived so much that they don't want to
• 38:13
  hear
• 38:14
  >> about having demons. They they don't
• 38:16
  want to hear about inviting Jesus into
• 38:18
  the wound because they sat in the mirror
• 38:20
  for four or five hours at a time going
• 38:23
  through their own inner child healing
• 38:25
  process like I told you I used to do and
• 38:27
  it's like well
• 38:30
  why why would I get saved if there's
• 38:34
  still more work to be done kind of do
• 38:36
  you know what I'm saying?
• 38:37
  >> Absolutely.
• 38:37
  >> Yeah. I'm going to take my shoes off and
• 38:39
  I'm going to get comfortable because
• 38:40
  this we're we're going we're diving in
• 38:42
  deep right now and I love it. the Okay,
• 38:45
  so the first thing that you have to do
• 38:47
  is you have to be honest with yourself.
• 38:50
  I I will never forget one time I posted
• 38:54
  on my story years ago and I said if
• 38:57
  there is a counterfeit that means there
• 39:00
  is an authentic and you saw that and
• 39:02
  that started making you start thinking
• 39:05
  about all of this stuff because you
• 39:06
  didn't believe in this stuff and you
• 39:09
  actually received healing and
• 39:11
  breakthrough and more of God because you
• 39:13
  were willing to your theology could be
• 39:16
  wrong. you were willing to look at it
• 39:18
  and be real with yourself and be like if
• 39:20
  I what God's word says is true. This it
• 39:24
  doesn't matter what my opinions are.
• 39:26
  This is the word of God. And if it says
• 39:29
  if the word says that Jesus died for my
• 39:32
  healing, that means he died for my
• 39:33
  healing. If you know what I mean, if
• 39:35
  Jesus casted out demons, that means that
• 39:37
  there like you have to take it for what
• 39:40
  it is. And you can't be so offended and
• 39:42
  scared of being wrong. We're all wrong
• 39:45
  about something. I can tell you right
• 39:46
  now, there's no way that all of us are
• 39:48
  100% right about all of our opinions
• 39:50
  about God. And so, you have to be honest
• 39:52
  with yourself and say, "Okay, the moment
• 39:55
  I got saved, did all of my trauma and
• 39:57
  pain magically disappear?
• 39:59
  >> Did all of the struggles that I had, the
• 40:01
  addictions that I had, did everything
• 40:02
  that I was struggling with disappear?" I
• 40:05
  can probably bet for every single person
• 40:07
  it's going to be known. Sometimes some
• 40:09
  stuff can break off like you got
• 40:11
  delivered from depression, but that not
• 40:13
  every single thing of your life was just
• 40:15
  healed and made whole. That doesn't mean
• 40:17
  that God is unwilling or that God can't
• 40:19
  or that you are meant to suffer your
• 40:21
  whole life here on earth until we go to
• 40:24
  heaven.
• 40:24
  >> And so, you got to be real and you have
• 40:26
  to be honest with yourself and say,
• 40:27
  "Okay, if I have triggers and I have
• 40:30
  wounds and I have trauma and I have,
• 40:32
  let's say, a pornography addiction, I
• 40:35
  know that this is not of God. I know
• 40:37
  that God doesn't want me to do this. I
• 40:38
  can't stop. Kind of like the place that
• 40:40
  you were in when when we first started
• 40:42
  hanging out and you were like you were
• 40:44
  sick of the oppression and the stuff
• 40:46
  that you were living in and you were
• 40:47
  like, I've got to just see if this
• 40:49
  deliverance thing is real. You just have
• 40:51
  to be real with yourself and say, "Do I
• 40:53
  care more about my getting free and my
• 40:56
  freedom and getting more of God? Do I
• 40:58
  love God more than I love my own
• 41:00
  opinions? Or am I going to be a slave to
• 41:02
  my own theology and put God in a box and
• 41:06
  live a life in sin and pain and sickness
• 41:09
  because, you know, I'm I'm too scared of
• 41:12
  touching something. And
• 41:14
  >> I don't know, I'm getting all fired up.
• 41:16
  I love it.
• 41:16
  >> This is coming from a place of love,
• 41:18
  though. Love like I I would look at my
• 41:21
  younger sisters if they were doing this
• 41:22
  and be like, I love you. I want you to
• 41:24
  just be honest with yourself because I
• 41:27
  want you to be healed. I don't want you
• 41:28
  to live in pain because that word soo we
• 41:31
  talk about it with deliverance but soo
• 41:33
  that word is the Greek for saved when
• 41:36
  they said you know his he will come and
• 41:38
  he will save and deliver and all this
• 41:40
  stuff soo means yes salvation right but
• 41:43
  deliverance and healing and healing let
• 41:47
  me look at my notes here I had some
• 41:48
  scriptures that I wanted to read about
• 41:51
  healing because you because if you're
• 41:54
  against this you need to just listen to
• 41:56
  the word of God Let the scripture
• 41:58
  influence your opinion. You know what?
• 42:00
  If nobody has scripture to back up what
• 42:02
  they're saying, then you can throw it
• 42:03
  out.
• 42:03
  >> Yeah.
• 42:04
  >> Um Psalm 23, he restores my soul. Isaiah
• 42:07
  53:4, he bore our griefs and carried our
• 42:10
  sorrows. That's not physical pain. Grief
• 42:14
  and sorrow is emotional, soul wounding
• 42:16
  pain. Everybody goes through grief and
• 42:18
  sorrow. So he carried them and he died
• 42:21
  for this healing. The Lord is close to
• 42:23
  the brokenhearted.
• 42:25
  And then um so we see that the spirit
• 42:28
  and soul uh it can be crushed, it can be
• 42:30
  broken. Um what was the other scripture?
• 42:33
  I think that was the one that I had
• 42:35
  there. Yeah. About grief and sorrow. And
• 42:37
  so this is what Jesus died to heal you
• 42:40
  from. You cannot give me an argument
• 42:43
  that says do not invite Jesus into your
• 42:46
  pain and your grief and your sorrow.
• 42:48
  That that's counter-Christian. Why would
• 42:51
  we ever? So, you know, I just want
• 42:53
  everybody to have to understand that
• 42:56
  they have this available to them. You
• 42:57
  don't need to go and put all of your
• 42:59
  hope in the psychologist and the
• 43:00
  therapist. They're great. I always
• 43:02
  recommend people to Christian counseling
• 43:04
  when they need it. But you're not going
• 43:06
  to fix this going to a secular
• 43:09
  um psych therapist without Jesus being
• 43:13
  involved. Yeah. You know.
• 43:14
  >> Yeah. Because psychological tools can
• 43:17
  modify behavior and can change behavior
• 43:20
  and can even,
• 43:22
  >> you know, change you in a lot of ways by
• 43:25
  applying some of the things that
• 43:28
  scripture
• 43:29
  >> has known long before modern psychology
• 43:32
  caught up to it. Right? Yep. So the
• 43:34
  psychological tools they are great and
• 43:37
  they are necessary
• 43:40
  but transformation
• 43:42
  comes from the spirit of God comes from
• 43:45
  the same spirit living on the inside of
• 43:47
  you that raised Christ from the dead.
• 43:49
  Like
• 43:49
  >> yes
• 43:50
  >> that that's the thing. And I love what
• 43:52
  you're talking about healing in like
• 43:53
  every capacity because
• 43:55
  >> I did a video on this like a while ago
• 43:57
  on like the the the blood of Jesus and
• 44:00
  and kind of [clears throat] this the
• 44:01
  stops he took even before the cross.
• 44:04
  >> Yeah.
• 44:04
  >> Right. Cuz it's like the realm of not
• 44:06
  only the spirit like the cross took care
• 44:08
  of the spirit and the healing that was
• 44:10
  necessary for the spirit. the
• 44:14
  the blood that shed in the garden of
• 44:17
  Gethsemane when he cried when he was
• 44:20
  under such physiological distress and he
• 44:23
  wept and he sweat blood that's like his
• 44:27
  blood was literally being shed for your
• 44:29
  physical distress his crown of thorns
• 44:32
  pressing into his head.
• 44:34
  >> Wow.
• 44:34
  >> So that you could be given a crown of
• 44:37
  righteousness instead. you wouldn't have
• 44:38
  to bear that crown of thorns with those
• 44:40
  tormenting thoughts and that suffering,
• 44:43
  you know, like and obviously there's
• 44:45
  suffering for Christ's sake. We are
• 44:47
  people think when we talk about this
• 44:48
  stuff, we're like, "Oh, you should never
• 44:50
  walk through trials or tribulations."
• 44:52
  It's like, no, the Bible is so explicit
• 44:54
  that we are going to endure trials and
• 44:56
  tribulations. But there is a difference
• 44:59
  in suffering for the sake of suffering
• 45:01
  versus suffering for Christ's sake. And
• 45:03
  when you just suffer,
• 45:06
  you know, incessantly
• 45:08
  >> kind of in spite of God, that's just
• 45:11
  irresponsible. Like going back to the
• 45:13
  whole thing of of diverting the
• 45:15
  responsibility off of yourself and the
• 45:17
  the way that you kind of have to
• 45:19
  participate now in your sanctification
• 45:21
  process and the willingness and the
• 45:23
  humility and all these aspects,
• 45:25
  >> it is irresponsible to suffer for the
• 45:28
  sake of suffering when Christ took on
• 45:30
  your suffering. I want to say this
• 45:33
  really gently, but there's a lot of
• 45:35
  people who their identity is in being a
• 45:38
  victim or suffering there. It gets all
• 45:42
  wrapped up in that and they I don't know
• 45:44
  find purpose, find I don't I don't know
• 45:47
  what it is. like it like itches a
• 45:50
  scratch of like they have this victim
• 45:52
  mindset and it's always something going
• 45:54
  on and they're a martyr and they're
• 45:56
  suffering and the and the and these are
• 46:00
  the cases where therapy is good. Like if
• 46:02
  you go to a Christian counselor, you can
• 46:04
  go and you can sit down and you can
• 46:05
  recognize these patterns in the first
• 46:07
  place. Like you were saying, like
• 46:08
  there's a difference between suffering
• 46:11
  for Christ's sake and suffering with him
• 46:14
  than just like suffering in your
• 46:16
  identities and being a person who is
• 46:18
  suffering and something's always going
• 46:19
  wrong that you're not supposed to be
• 46:21
  living from that place of defeat and
• 46:23
  self-pity and suffering. Um, we all go
• 46:26
  through and this is again why this
• 46:27
  conversation is important because we
• 46:29
  will all go through some kind of trauma
• 46:31
  at some point in our life and and you
• 46:33
  probably will in your future. A loved
• 46:34
  one may pass away. Who knows what will
• 46:36
  happen, but we all go through it. And
• 46:38
  so,
• 46:39
  >> basically, it's inviting Jesus in and
• 46:43
  walking with him through it. That's
• 46:45
  really what we're getting at. And so,
• 46:46
  it's like, don't suffer apart from him.
• 46:49
  But, you know, the Lord is my shepherd.
• 46:51
  You know, he even though I go through
• 46:53
  the valley of the shadow of death, I
• 46:54
  will fear no evil. Why? Because he's the
• 46:57
  shepherd. He's leading you through it.
• 46:58
  You're not alone with him. And so,
• 47:00
  that's really the difference of of what
• 47:03
  we're talking about here.
• 47:04
  >> Yeah. And he also walks you out of it,
• 47:06
  >> you know, like people quote that verse a
• 47:08
  lot as like, I'm just in this season,
• 47:10
  blah blah blah, but it's like he walks
• 47:12
  you through the valley and he and he
• 47:14
  leads you
• 47:15
  >> to lie beside the green pastures. That's
• 47:17
  where you get to rest. Like you don't
• 47:19
  get to rest in the valley. You're
• 47:20
  walking through it because you're going
• 47:22
  through it. Sometimes yes, you have to
• 47:24
  go through to get through kind of thing.
• 47:26
  But ultimately the goal is the pasture.
• 47:29
  >> You know what I'm saying? Al I would say
• 47:31
  ultimately the goal is
• 47:33
  now through all of it. Every valley,
• 47:36
  every p everywhere we going is just
• 47:38
  going with him because in that process
• 47:40
  like we're that's the sanctification.
• 47:42
  We're becoming more like him. We get to
• 47:44
  know him the most in our suffering but
• 47:47
  we don't stay there. You know that's so
• 47:49
  good. It's like all of that like the
• 47:51
  suffering that crushing will make us
• 47:54
  more like Jesus even than sometimes
• 47:56
  lying in the in the pastures and by the
• 47:59
  streams and but it's all in seasons and
• 48:01
  times. You know what I mean? Like
• 48:03
  >> it's just our walk with the Lord really
• 48:05
  that that Psalm 23 and it's so healing.
• 48:08
  >> Yeah. I also think a lot of this
• 48:09
  misunderstanding with the things that
• 48:11
  we're talking about come from just a
• 48:13
  complete honestly negligence of
• 48:15
  spiritual anatomy. like you don't get
• 48:18
  that there's a difference between spirit
• 48:20
  and soul.
• 48:21
  >> So good.
• 48:21
  >> And that was something that I I
• 48:23
  struggled with. I really
• 48:25
  >> kind of use the two interchangeably even
• 48:27
  when I was a new age, right? Like just
• 48:29
  spirit, soul, like it's just
• 48:31
  >> but it's still a debate within
• 48:33
  Christianity and it's it's a respectable
• 48:36
  debate. We but we believe that there is
• 48:38
  a difference.
• 48:38
  >> Yeah. I 100% believe and I believe
• 48:40
  there's a biblical precedent for it. I
• 48:42
  mean even in the account of creation
• 48:44
  like God the the words are different
• 48:47
  that he uses like the Hebrew words are
• 48:49
  different that man's flesh was made out
• 48:52
  of the dirt and God breathed his spirit
• 48:56
  into man to create the soul. So that's
• 48:59
  like one two three you know like so your
• 49:02
  spirit is what animates your soul which
• 49:05
  is your mind will and emotions. So apart
• 49:08
  from Christ, your spirit's dead. You're
• 49:11
  cut off from the source of life and love
• 49:14
  and truth. And so you're just like
• 49:17
  animated through through death and
• 49:19
  through sin and through um the absence
• 49:24
  of your creator essentially. But then
• 49:26
  when you're born again, now your soul,
• 49:29
  your mind, will, and emotions can be
• 49:31
  animated through life in his original
• 49:33
  design, which he said was good by the
• 49:35
  way. And so that's where it now becomes
• 49:38
  possible. All the things you may have
• 49:41
  tried in new age,
• 49:42
  >> the inner healing, like the the the
• 49:45
  visualizations, whatever, like all the
• 49:47
  things you tried, it wasn't it was being
• 49:51
  sourced incorrectly, even if the tools
• 49:53
  were legitimate, even if the spiritual
• 49:55
  principles were legitimate. Now you
• 49:57
  actually have a spirit that has been
• 49:59
  made new, resurrected, and full of his
• 50:02
  life. And you are connected to him. And
• 50:04
  it's because of his spirit that animates
• 50:08
  your mind, will, and emotions that you
• 50:09
  actually have the propensity to heal
• 50:11
  from the trauma, to get those demons
• 50:13
  cast out. And so like deliverance and
• 50:17
  healing,
• 50:18
  it's not just like for a Christian. I
• 50:21
  would say it's like the right of a
• 50:24
  Christian. That's good. I love that. It
• 50:26
  is the right. We should be walking in
• 50:28
  it. They those tools didn't work in the
• 50:31
  new age because you had no atonement.
• 50:34
  You had nobody who was died and beaten
• 50:36
  and crushed and bore. Literally, it says
• 50:39
  that he was whipped so that we could be
• 50:41
  made whole. There is no healing if there
• 50:44
  was no sacrifice. If there was no
• 50:46
  Passover lamb, Passover is coming up. I
• 50:49
  love the the shadow of that. The the the
• 50:52
  lamb, you know what I mean? um when it
• 50:54
  when they were in Egypt and the death
• 50:57
  angel passed over the door, it's because
• 50:58
  they sacrificed the lamb. They put the
• 51:00
  blood of the lamb. That was a picture of
• 51:02
  Jesus. And so, because this blood wasn't
• 51:05
  shed for you, you didn't receive that
• 51:07
  when you were a new age. You were trying
• 51:08
  to do it through yourself, through
• 51:11
  demons, through all these different
• 51:12
  things. And so, of course, it didn't
• 51:13
  work. It can't work apart from the lamb.
• 51:16
  It's only his blood that has the power
• 51:18
  to do these things. So don't be afraid
• 51:21
  to come to the source of life and
• 51:23
  healing of to Jesus because all of the
• 51:26
  other methods that you tried apart from
• 51:28
  him didn't work. Of course they didn't
• 51:30
  work.
• 51:30
  >> Yeah. Of course they didn't work. Yeah.
• 51:33
  And this has been actually really
• 51:34
  [clears throat] healing for me in this
• 51:36
  whole process of
• 51:37
  >> I told you this recently in our text. So
• 51:39
  a lot of our texts are just coming to
• 51:41
  life in this conversation. But
• 51:42
  >> people are getting a glimpse in what our
• 51:44
  thread looks like. I um it's been
• 51:47
  healing for me to recognize you know
• 51:50
  scientifically
• 51:52
  psychologically
• 51:54
  all the stuff not all the stuff but you
• 51:56
  know a lot of the the principles and and
• 51:58
  the ideologies and the practices that I
• 52:00
  was implementing you know obviously not
• 52:02
  like divination but just some of the the
• 52:04
  things like I I was psychology tools
• 52:07
  >> right I was tapping into biblical
• 52:09
  principles like mind renewal like I
• 52:12
  understood that
• 52:14
  >> on a soul level um on a world
• 52:17
  >> absent of atonement as you just said I
• 52:19
  understood these principles and so I was
• 52:22
  just the the frustration would just
• 52:24
  compound because I I couldn't it did not
• 52:27
  work for me beyond you want to talk
• 52:29
  about the gunshot wound thing I love
• 52:31
  that analogy you used also one of my
• 52:33
  analogies where I say the new age is a
• 52:35
  band-aid on a gunshot wound so I love
• 52:37
  how those analogies play together
• 52:39
  >> um
• 52:39
  >> it is a band yeah I imagine freaking all
• 52:42
  all that's going on and you're putting a
• 52:44
  band-aid Yeah, exactly what I was going
• 52:46
  to do.
• 52:46
  >> So now it's been just so healing for me
• 52:49
  to recognize like okay, I wasn't
• 52:51
  completely like
• 52:54
  [laughter]
• 52:55
  >> I have to be careful with what I say.
• 52:56
  >> I was literally thinking you need to be
• 52:58
  careful.
• 52:58
  >> I wasn't I wasn't off track in this
• 53:01
  sense of understanding
• 53:05
  spiritual law or spiritual principles or
• 53:08
  like the application of what those
• 53:09
  things could produce.
• 53:11
  >> Yeah. like manifesting works,
• 53:13
  >> right?
• 53:14
  >> But it's not the right way.
• 53:15
  >> So, I wasn't What I'm trying to say is
• 53:17
  it's just been healing for me to to
• 53:19
  discover that I wasn't completely
• 53:24
  cuckoo bananas. Even though I was
• 53:27
  because because what what it's what it's
• 53:29
  helped me do is is is trust God and say
• 53:32
  like, "Oh,
• 53:33
  >> that's good. Okay, if I could figure
• 53:35
  that out like on my own, so to speak,
• 53:38
  then imagine if I just allow myself or
• 53:42
  really allow you to guide me through
• 53:46
  that process your way
• 53:48
  >> as opposed to Yeah. As opposed to the
• 53:50
  opposite, which is there is no healing.
• 53:53
  There is no deliverance there. You know
• 53:54
  what? You're saying at least that I was
• 53:57
  like
• 53:58
  >> wrong, but like at least there's some
• 53:59
  kind of healing that's available to me.
• 54:01
  And
• 54:02
  >> yeah.
• 54:02
  >> Yeah. No, I totally get that and I I see
• 54:05
  why he let me go through everything I
• 54:07
  went through and and you know traverse
• 54:10
  the depths of the counterfeits. Um
• 54:13
  because to to see the authentic
• 54:17
  is it's incredible. Like to see the way
• 54:21
  he designed everything
• 54:23
  to truly not function apart from him.
• 54:26
  That's really what I'm getting at
• 54:27
  >> is that
• 54:29
  >> all the tools, the the the mind renewal,
• 54:32
  all that stuff like that those are great
• 54:33
  and and they work even apart from him,
• 54:35
  but they're not meant to.
• 54:37
  >> They're only they're only meant to work
• 54:39
  sustainably within him.
• 54:42
  >> Um I wanted I wanted to ask you why
• 54:46
  because obviously we both believe this.
• 54:48
  why you believe it is necessary, I'll
• 54:51
  just use the word necessary for
• 54:53
  exnewagers to go through deliverance and
• 54:58
  inner healing and and would you say that
• 55:01
  I know that there's not like necessarily
• 55:02
  a formula because God isn't like a
• 55:04
  formula. Um, but maybe is there like a
• 55:07
  framework that that you have at least
• 55:10
  witnessed through your own ministry that
• 55:12
  maybe like works more optimally
• 55:16
  >> like deliverance first in her healing,
• 55:17
  you know, kind of thing.
• 55:19
  >> Yes. So, I definitely say it's necessary
• 55:23
  to go through deliverance and inner
• 55:24
  healing
• 55:25
  >> if you're out of the new age, but also
• 55:27
  as a Christian just in general because
• 55:30
  we all have trauma
• 55:33
  >> at some point in our life.
• 55:36
  >> A little trauma, a lot of trauma, you
• 55:38
  know, everybody is different, but we all
• 55:41
  have the same Jesus and he just wants us
• 55:43
  to be healed.
• 55:44
  >> Yes. Um, and so we already established
• 55:48
  like a lot of times these unclean
• 55:50
  spirits want to sneak in through trauma,
• 55:52
  right? And so that's why it's necessary,
• 55:55
  I think, to get both. Um, and then
• 55:58
  there's just so much freedom, like the
• 56:00
  fruit of my life and so many thousands
• 56:03
  of other people that have, you know,
• 56:05
  emailed me or commented on videos or,
• 56:08
  you know, seeing the fruit of your
• 56:09
  ministry, different friends that we
• 56:11
  have, Isaiah, and things like that. Like
• 56:13
  there's just so much good fruit and
• 56:15
  testimony out there of people that we
• 56:17
  know and in ministry that we've seen
• 56:19
  that this is just the real deal. I mean,
• 56:22
  I was delivered as a Christian from
• 56:24
  anxiety, from depression, from a spirit
• 56:27
  of death, from rejection. I mean, so
• 56:30
  many things, both of us, so many things.
• 56:32
  And so, um, you know, I I there's a
• 56:35
  reason why the scripture says
• 56:36
  deliverance is the children's bread. And
• 56:39
  I I've talked to you about this. Like
• 56:41
  the thing that I is grieving me right
• 56:45
  now is that a lot of deliverance
• 56:47
  ministers, they have the deliverance,
• 56:50
  but they don't sometimes they don't even
• 56:52
  address like the healing. And I really
• 56:55
  think that I don't even want to say it's
• 56:57
  a formula of like do the healing first
• 57:00
  and then deliver or the order. It's that
• 57:02
  they I believe they need to be happening
• 57:04
  side by side. Doesn't matter the order
• 57:06
  that they look like. I I always want to
• 57:08
  be led by the Holy Spirit. If I'm doing
• 57:10
  a deliverance on somebody and the Holy
• 57:13
  Spirit will say, "Okay, they need inner
• 57:15
  healing from this or that or or ask
• 57:18
  them, you know, pray for healing." I
• 57:20
  usually most of the time whenever I'm
• 57:22
  someone asks you for deliverance, end up
• 57:24
  praying healing stuff over them, too.
• 57:26
  Because to me, it just doesn't make
• 57:28
  sense. What kind of when you the same
• 57:30
  analogy we use, what kind of doctor
• 57:31
  would just take out the bullet but not
• 57:34
  stitch you back up together? That's just
• 57:36
  not I don't believe that's the heart of
• 57:38
  God. And it doesn't need to happen in
• 57:39
  the same session. And maybe if you're a
• 57:41
  deliverance minister and you know
• 57:42
  nothing about this like it's time to get
• 57:45
  into the word and you know maybe go to a
• 57:48
  workshop or a conference or a
• 57:50
  disciplehip or talk start reading what
• 57:52
  the Bible says about these things. Um,
• 57:55
  but at the very least, if you are in
• 57:57
  deliverance ministry, I would say please
• 57:59
  like at least have a spiritfilled
• 58:01
  therapist, counselor, people who do
• 58:03
  inner healing to at least send the
• 58:05
  people to if you guys aren't equipped to
• 58:07
  do it because it's God is interested in
• 58:11
  the holistic healing of us, right? Soo
• 58:14
  is salvation, healing, and deliverance.
• 58:17
  All of those things together is
• 58:19
  important, and it's part of our
• 58:20
  inheritance. Like you said, it's part of
• 58:22
  our birthright as Christians. We've been
• 58:24
  born again and we don't have to walk
• 58:27
  around wounded and triggered and
• 58:29
  demonized and in pain. And it's like God
• 58:32
  wants to see us running. He we if we
• 58:34
  want to be more like Jesus, he wasn't
• 58:36
  walking around triggered and in pain and
• 58:38
  demonized. Like that's who we are, you
• 58:42
  know, wanting to be mold and shaped and
• 58:44
  like I love that scripture of like we're
• 58:47
  clay in the potter's hands. That's part
• 58:49
  of being molded by him. You know, who
• 58:51
  wants to walk around wounded?
• 58:53
  >> Yeah.
• 58:53
  >> I don't know.
• 58:54
  >> Yeah.
• 58:54
  >> Yeah. I love what you just said that
• 58:56
  like healing is your birthright. Brought
• 58:58
  me back.
• 58:59
  >> Um
• 59:00
  I that was one of my like slogans
• 59:05
  >> like when I was a new age that like
• 59:07
  healing is your birthright. So that's
• 59:08
  going back to what I was saying.
• 59:10
  >> But you weren't like born again.
• 59:12
  >> I wasn't born again. Healing is your
• 59:13
  birthright once you're born again, you
• 59:15
  know? So it's just wow. That's just
• 59:17
  that's insane. Um, and I think that's
• 59:20
  wow that's so revoly cuz you know you
• 59:22
  you get kind of like into into that
• 59:24
  mindset in the new age and again it's
• 59:26
  like you're saying all these things that
• 59:28
  are true but they're only true under the
• 59:30
  framework of um being born again and
• 59:34
  then you feel so guilty for that that
• 59:36
  you just like throw everything away once
• 59:38
  you actually are born again and you have
• 59:41
  a right to these things. I know. I mean,
• 59:44
  I know that's from my own experience
• 59:45
  that I just felt so guilty and full of
• 59:49
  so much shame for
• 59:52
  the way that I had been living in
• 59:54
  rebellion without even realizing it.
• 59:56
  >> For so long.
• 59:57
  >> Yeah.
• 59:57
  >> And you just you don't want to you don't
• 59:59
  even want to like touch anything that
• 1:00:00
  looks even remotely like that again.
• 1:00:03
  >> That's that's so sad and that's so
• 1:00:05
  profound and I think there's so many
• 1:00:07
  people that are there. But it's like
• 1:00:09
  once you really get into your word and
• 1:00:11
  you really read what it says, like I
• 1:00:13
  that night that me and you sat down and
• 1:00:16
  we just literally opened the Bible and
• 1:00:18
  we just went through all the Bible
• 1:00:19
  verses about deliverance and it was like
• 1:00:21
  all the extra stuff that was like all
• 1:00:23
  the like melted away
• 1:00:25
  >> and then you could just see like no this
• 1:00:27
  is available for me and that was like
• 1:00:30
  >> so beautiful to me. It's the same like
• 1:00:31
  with anything that we believe, whatever
• 1:00:33
  it is.
• 1:00:34
  >> And it's like, man, if you have that
• 1:00:36
  feeling, renounce the guilt, renounce
• 1:00:39
  the shame, the disappointment. A lot of
• 1:00:41
  it is like, I'm disappointed. I tried to
• 1:00:43
  heal so much on my own, and then you
• 1:00:45
  don't want to be disappointed again.
• 1:00:47
  Well, why do you feel that way? You
• 1:00:49
  don't trust God.
• 1:00:50
  >> He's not going to let you down. He's not
• 1:00:52
  going to disappoint you. So, it's like
• 1:00:54
  really getting at the root of these
• 1:00:56
  things. And that's with with Jesus and
• 1:00:58
  saying, "Okay, Jesus, I'm scared. that
• 1:01:00
  I'm disappointed that if I go to you
• 1:01:03
  that I'm you're not going to heal me. Of
• 1:01:05
  course, that's not going to happen. And
• 1:01:07
  just let him minister to you and like
• 1:01:08
  uproot that disappointment, that fear of
• 1:01:11
  rejection, whatever it is.
• 1:01:13
  >> That's really so sad. I never considered
• 1:01:16
  even that aspect of it that you're just
• 1:01:17
  >> There's Christians who who they've been
• 1:01:20
  praying for healing for years and
• 1:01:22
  they're too they're disappointed.
• 1:01:24
  They've been let down and they don't
• 1:01:25
  even want to go to God and ask for
• 1:01:26
  healing. This isn't even a new age
• 1:01:28
  thing. like I rebelled because I was
• 1:01:29
  disappointed in God. Like we the church
• 1:01:33
  needs to get in healing from that,
• 1:01:35
  >> you know.
• 1:01:35
  >> Yeah. Right.
• 1:01:36
  >> Yeah. And I I think too, you know, how
• 1:01:39
  so many people that come out of um the
• 1:01:43
  occult then,
• 1:01:45
  as we've talked about many many times,
• 1:01:47
  even throughout this video, they they
• 1:01:48
  just go like straight to the
• 1:01:50
  cessationism doctrine and and then their
• 1:01:53
  entire ministry becomes about not what
• 1:01:56
  Jesus is doing, but what everyone else
• 1:01:58
  is what they believe doing wrong in
• 1:02:00
  Jesus' name.
• 1:02:02
  >> Okay. Just Pharisee.
• 1:02:03
  >> Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  >> Just Pharisee. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  >> But the root of even that
• 1:02:08
  is it's like even beyond Pharisee. It's
• 1:02:11
  even beyond whatever demons they need to
• 1:02:14
  be delivered from. It does come from the
• 1:02:16
  thing you just mentioned is like the the
• 1:02:18
  the fear of disappointment of
• 1:02:22
  what happens if I actually let myself go
• 1:02:25
  there with God. Now,
• 1:02:28
  >> it very it could it very well could be
• 1:02:30
  that route. Absolutely. Mhm.
• 1:02:32
  >> which they need inner healing for,
• 1:02:34
  >> but they're like, "No, that's demonic,
• 1:02:36
  and you're all demonic." And
• 1:02:38
  >> how is how is asking Jesus to heal a
• 1:02:41
  wound? Like we said, we're throwing out
• 1:02:43
  all of the connotations. I don't know
• 1:02:45
  where this movement started. I didn't
• 1:02:47
  study under movement. Literally, for the
• 1:02:49
  context of this is Jesus, I'm feeling
• 1:02:52
  rejected. Why do I feel this way? Come
• 1:02:55
  reveal yourself to me. Minister and heal
• 1:02:57
  this. All it is.
• 1:02:58
  >> Yeah. It's really good. I remember
• 1:03:00
  something you said to me too at first.
• 1:03:03
  Um cuz you know we we did we like shared
• 1:03:07
  a mutual friend that told us this was
• 1:03:08
  like evil stuff. And I remember you
• 1:03:11
  saying that uh all throughout the Bible,
• 1:03:15
  [snorts] quite literally all throughout
• 1:03:16
  the Bible, all we see are people having
• 1:03:19
  encounters and particularly having like
• 1:03:22
  visions.
• 1:03:24
  And so to have a a visualization
• 1:03:28
  or invite Jesus to give you a a
• 1:03:31
  visualization
• 1:03:33
  of like a time in your life where you
• 1:03:37
  were met with trauma where a door was
• 1:03:38
  open, whatever the case is. Um even like
• 1:03:42
  a a sin moment that that opened a door
• 1:03:44
  to a demon, whatever
• 1:03:48
  that how can that be evil,
• 1:03:50
  >> right?
• 1:03:51
  >> How can it be evil?
• 1:03:52
  >> Test the spirit. test the fruit. That's
• 1:03:54
  how you will know. It's It's really that
• 1:03:57
  simple. Like we
• 1:03:59
  How can you believe be a Christian and
• 1:04:01
  believe in like a virgin birth,
• 1:04:03
  immaculate conception, miracles, feeding
• 1:04:05
  the 5,000, walking on water, and you're
• 1:04:07
  afraid of a vision? It you know what I
• 1:04:10
  mean? Like we just we have to make
• 1:04:12
  everything so logical and everything is
• 1:04:14
  so fear-based. But that's why the Bible
• 1:04:17
  says, "Okay, test the spirit. Examine
• 1:04:20
  the fruit. If it's of God, like you will
• 1:04:22
  see the godly fruit and like what your
• 1:04:25
  experience, what I experienced was
• 1:04:27
  healing, freedom, and good fruit. There
• 1:04:29
  are people who do have weird encounters
• 1:04:31
  and things that are we're not, you know
• 1:04:33
  what I mean? It's just but when you
• 1:04:35
  start walking in the supernatural like
• 1:04:37
  that stuff's going to happen. Like I
• 1:04:38
  think about Acts 16:16. They're Paul is
• 1:04:40
  going around, they're casting out
• 1:04:42
  demons, they're healing the sick,
• 1:04:43
  they're doing all and the woman with the
• 1:04:45
  spirit of python comes and she's preach
• 1:04:47
  and what she's saying is true, but she
• 1:04:49
  has a spirit of divination. It's just
• 1:04:50
  the spiritual realm is just there's
• 1:04:53
  angels, there's demons, there's good and
• 1:04:54
  there's bad. And so,
• 1:04:56
  >> I mean, the Bible gives us the framework
• 1:04:58
  on how to operate and navigate all of
• 1:04:59
  that.
• 1:05:00
  >> Yeah. I thank God, too, cuz I I know I
• 1:05:02
  know people have been like seriously
• 1:05:04
  hurt by like those kind of
• 1:05:08
  warlocky kind of, you know, Christian
• 1:05:10
  spheres.
• 1:05:11
  >> And I know that's a thing, but it's
• 1:05:13
  real.
• 1:05:14
  >> Yeah. Um, so I don't ever like want to
• 1:05:16
  speak insensitively to that because I
• 1:05:18
  know that it has it has produced even
• 1:05:22
  even more fear into this because now
• 1:05:25
  that that is actually new age
• 1:05:26
  infiltrating the church, right? So I
• 1:05:28
  just feel blessed because I feel like
• 1:05:30
  everyone that God has put in my
• 1:05:32
  immediate c well in my immediate circle
• 1:05:34
  I'll say right now at this time in my
• 1:05:36
  life
• 1:05:37
  >> um has just like led me very well like
• 1:05:40
  like you like TJ like Justin like really
• 1:05:43
  pure
• 1:05:45
  you know and um so it's allowed me to
• 1:05:48
  experience the the power of God and the
• 1:05:51
  demonstration of his kingdom without
• 1:05:53
  having to worry about any of that other
• 1:05:55
  kind of stuff. So praise the Lord for
• 1:05:56
  that. I know that's not everyone's
• 1:05:58
  story, but
• 1:05:58
  >> but you know, let that encourage you to
• 1:06:01
  seek out like spiritfilled, healthy
• 1:06:03
  churches.
• 1:06:04
  >> Good.
• 1:06:04
  >> And, you know, I've been to different
• 1:06:07
  churches and I've experienced that. And
• 1:06:09
  so, it's it's, you know, just pray about
• 1:06:11
  it and ask God if you're looking for
• 1:06:13
  that. And I believe he'll he'll give it
• 1:06:15
  to you guys.
• 1:06:17
  >> Well, this was I feel like we could just
• 1:06:18
  keep talking and talking, but I don't
• 1:06:19
  want to start going in circles. Let's
• 1:06:21
  close out. I'd like for you to pray if
• 1:06:23
  you don't mind, but first let people
• 1:06:25
  know um where they can find you and let
• 1:06:30
  them know
• 1:06:32
  where they can get your book and who
• 1:06:34
  this is really appropriate for.
• 1:06:36
  >> Awesome. Okay, cool. Yeah, you can find
• 1:06:38
  me u my name is Taylor Scrogggins on all
• 1:06:41
  social media is Taylor official and then
• 1:06:44
  the book is available everywhere where
• 1:06:46
  books are sold online, Amazon, Barnes &
• 1:06:48
  Noble, Target. Um and then yeah would
• 1:06:52
  love to pray. Um and oh and the book is
• 1:06:55
  appropriate. It's it's good for
• 1:06:56
  believers and non-believers um who are
• 1:06:59
  in the new age. It is a lot of like
• 1:07:02
  solid biblical teaching. A witch could
• 1:07:05
  pick up that book and read it and
• 1:07:07
  understand salvation, get filled with
• 1:07:09
  the Holy Spirit, learn how to do
• 1:07:11
  deliverance, and then get delivered from
• 1:07:13
  all any open doors that they open during
• 1:07:15
  witchcraft. And then it's great for
• 1:07:17
  believers because it exposes all of
• 1:07:19
  these dark practices kind of like what
• 1:07:22
  you talk about on your podcast, what I
• 1:07:24
  talk about on mine. Um, and then it has
• 1:07:26
  deliverance prayers at the end of all of
• 1:07:28
  the chapters that are specific. So like
• 1:07:30
  there's a chapter about yoga. So if
• 1:07:32
  you've ever done yoga, pray that prayer
• 1:07:34
  over yourself. Or if you are wanting to
• 1:07:36
  learn more about deliverance, it'll
• 1:07:38
  teach you how to take someone through
• 1:07:40
  deliverance who has been involved in
• 1:07:41
  yoga. So it's good for both the believer
• 1:07:44
  and the non-believer. Um, yeah. Let's
• 1:07:46
  pray. Do you have anything that you
• 1:07:48
  wanted to
• 1:07:49
  >> Um, I think just because we've talked so
• 1:07:51
  much about healing, just wherever you
• 1:07:53
  feel like the Lord is leading.
• 1:07:55
  >> Okay.
• 1:07:55
  >> Like pray general healing over over the
• 1:07:58
  audience. Maybe you do want to walk
• 1:07:59
  through some sort of visualiz whatever
• 1:08:02
  you feel. I don't want to put you on the
• 1:08:03
  spot, but whatever you feel like led to
• 1:08:05
  do.
• 1:08:05
  >> Lord, thank you so much.
• 1:08:08
  Thank you for Angela. Thank you for
• 1:08:10
  Mike. Thank you for their family. Thank
• 1:08:12
  you for heaven and healing. God, I thank
• 1:08:14
  you um just for the vision and the dream
• 1:08:17
  and all of the people that you've
• 1:08:19
  brought here and most importantly like
• 1:08:21
  that they've been led to just drink
• 1:08:23
  from, you know, the living water, the
• 1:08:27
  well, Jesus, you and that this is a
• 1:08:29
  place of refreshment for so many people
• 1:08:31
  of healing and refreshment. So, I just
• 1:08:33
  thank you, Lord, for that. Lord, I just
• 1:08:36
  pray for every person who is listening
• 1:08:38
  right now. Holy Spirit, come. I ask that
• 1:08:41
  you would just refresh them. I ask that
• 1:08:44
  you would fill them up. I ask that you
• 1:08:47
  would even just baptize them aresh right
• 1:08:49
  now in the Holy Spirit and fire. I just
• 1:08:53
  pray that you would just wash over them
• 1:08:55
  with your love, with your healing right
• 1:08:57
  now. And I just want to invite you into
• 1:09:00
  a moment where maybe there's an area in
• 1:09:04
  your life, in your heart where you've
• 1:09:05
  been crushed, where you've been wounded.
• 1:09:07
  Um where you really need healing from
• 1:09:10
  the Lord. I think there's probably some
• 1:09:13
  people who need healing from rejection,
• 1:09:15
  from abandonment, and maybe you've been
• 1:09:18
  delivered from that, but there's still a
• 1:09:20
  wound there because we've never actually
• 1:09:23
  sat and said, "Jesus, come in and heal
• 1:09:25
  this place where rejection broke my
• 1:09:27
  heart." this memory where this thing
• 1:09:29
  traumatized me or any lies that I've
• 1:09:31
  come into agreement about myself that
• 1:09:33
  I'm unlovable. And we're just gonna pray
• 1:09:36
  right now and we're gonna say, "Jesus,
• 1:09:38
  I'm not going to protect my own heart
• 1:09:40
  anymore. I come out of agreement with
• 1:09:42
  rejection. I come out of agreement with
• 1:09:44
  the lies that, you know, no one will
• 1:09:47
  want me. If I open up or if I make
• 1:09:50
  myself vulnerable, I'm going to be
• 1:09:51
  rejected or abandoned." and we come out
• 1:09:53
  of agreement with those things or those
• 1:09:55
  lies, whatever it may be today that you
• 1:09:58
  are just carrying that burden and that
• 1:10:00
  hurt. And so we lay all those burdens
• 1:10:04
  down at your feet right now, Jesus. And
• 1:10:06
  we invite you into that wound. We invite
• 1:10:09
  you into that area of pain right now.
• 1:10:11
  And Lord, I ask that you would touch
• 1:10:14
  their heart. you would touch and mend
• 1:10:17
  and heal every broken part of their soul
• 1:10:20
  or even their spirit and even the
• 1:10:23
  physical body, Father God. Whoever needs
• 1:10:25
  physical healing, Lord. And so Lord, I
• 1:10:27
  just ask right now that you would begin
• 1:10:29
  to speak to them, that you begin to
• 1:10:31
  minister to that place of pain and
• 1:10:33
  trauma. That you would remind them that
• 1:10:36
  you have never left them, that you have
• 1:10:38
  never forsaken them, that you were by
• 1:10:40
  their side when that happened, that you
• 1:10:44
  receive them, that you love them, that
• 1:10:46
  you accept them.
• 1:10:50
  Thank you for your blood.
• 1:10:53
  Thank you for your love.
• 1:10:55
  Thank you, Jesus, that you were whipped
• 1:10:57
  and beaten, that you had a crown of
• 1:10:59
  thorns pressed into your skull, that you
• 1:11:03
  had your beard ripped, that you sweat
• 1:11:05
  blood, that you were whipped and beaten
• 1:11:06
  and flogged so that I could receive this
• 1:11:09
  healing right now to my soul.
• 1:11:12
  And just let the love of God touch your
• 1:11:15
  heart right now and mend and heal what
• 1:11:19
  has been broken. It doesn't matter who
• 1:11:21
  left you. Doesn't matter who abandoned
• 1:11:24
  you. You have the love of Jesus and that
• 1:11:28
  is all that we need.
• 1:11:31
  Thank you Lord that you're sweeping
• 1:11:32
  through. You're blowing through your
• 1:11:35
  healing right now. We love you Lord. And
• 1:11:39
  if there is any unclean spirit, if there
• 1:11:42
  is any trespassor, if there is any enemy
• 1:11:45
  that is there, we command them to leave
• 1:11:47
  right now in Jesus' name. any spirit of
• 1:11:50
  rejection, any spirit of abandonment,
• 1:11:53
  anxiety, any spirit that entered through
• 1:11:55
  trauma and pain, come out in the name of
• 1:11:58
  Jesus and go. And Holy Spirit, would you
• 1:12:01
  fill all of those places of their heart
• 1:12:04
  and bind it together? The word of God
• 1:12:06
  says that you are close to the
• 1:12:08
  brokenhearted and you bind up their
• 1:12:10
  wounds. You are our healer and so we
• 1:12:12
  thank you for it. Thank you for the
• 1:12:14
  healing, Lord, in Jesus name. Amen.
• 1:12:16
  >> Amen. That was amazing. Thank you so
• 1:12:18
  much.
• 1:12:19
  >> Praise God.
• 1:12:20
  >> Thanks for having me.
• 1:12:21
  >> Yeah, this is awesome. Okay, goodbye.
• 1:12:26
  That was really good.