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Ross Fulton Analysis: Is Ohio State Leaning Too Much On Its Tight Ends? · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Buckeyes Tomorrow morning for Thursday, October second. I'm
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Speaker 1: your host, Tom Moore. The Minnesota game in three days,
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Speaker 1: the game against Michigan in fifty nine days. We're going
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Speaker 1: to be talking today to Ross Fulton, our extras and
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Speaker 1: menu and make a reservation. Today all right, we're gonna
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Speaker 1: be talking about the Ohio State offense today and their
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Speaker 1: performance against Washington, and it was good. Eventually, they had
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Speaker 1: some stuff that worked, they had some stuff that didn't.
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Speaker 1: One of the things that's been a big topic of
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Speaker 1: conversation after that game is are the Buckeyes using too
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Speaker 1: many tight ends? That has not traditionally ever been the
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Speaker 1: problem with Ohio State's offense, but it seems, you know,
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Speaker 1: there's some at least some conversation that it might be
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Speaker 1: part of an issue this year. Eleven personnel, twelve personnel,
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Speaker 1: thirteen personnel. When dos become too much, we're gonna be
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Speaker 1: talking about that for their buddy Ross Fulton Ross. Yes,
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Speaker 1: that's the first question, you know, is there is there
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Speaker 1: too much leaning too much on the multiple tight ends
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Speaker 1: in the run game. Is that one of the reasons
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Speaker 1: they're struggling or do you not really buy into that.
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Speaker 2: I think they're overdoing it. I think in this game
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Speaker 2: they had to be. They've earned at least two tight
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Speaker 2: ends over fifty percent of snaps. I mean, I don't
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Speaker 2: quite have the same numbers on three tight ends or more,
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Speaker 2: but that had to been another, like you know, of
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Speaker 2: that over fifty percent, another fifteen percent maybe, And I
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Speaker 2: just think it's bringing too many, Uh, it's bringing a
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Speaker 2: lot of people into the box on the edges that's
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Speaker 2: not necessarily getting blocked, and that's causing you know, people
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Speaker 2: crashing off the edges. It's sort of throwing off pollers
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Speaker 2: in terms of reading what's going on. I just I
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Speaker 2: tend to think I think there's a place for it.
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Speaker 2: Certainly the two tight ends there's a place for it.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I think between Will Kas American Max Claire,
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Speaker 2: they obviously offer different skill sets. Kas Marik's really good blocker.
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Speaker 2: I thought Claire probably had his best game as a
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Speaker 2: blocker in this one. The and obviously Claire has the
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Speaker 2: receiving thread and they have a lesser receiving thread from
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Speaker 2: their third wide receiver, so it makes sense in that regard.
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Speaker 2: But I just think there's like too much of anything right,
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Speaker 2: and I think they should cut down so ironically, like
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Speaker 2: for all the multiple Titan sets, the most success they
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Speaker 2: had running the ball was this look, which is eleven
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Speaker 2: personnel and they sort of use the short motion to
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Speaker 2: run stretch to the boundary, which is always everyone's favorite.
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Speaker 2: And I say that obviously tongue in cheek. It's a
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Speaker 2: split zone. They actually it's they split zone it but
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Speaker 2: like the backside, the tight end is sort of kind
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Speaker 2: of sifting and filling on the backside safety. And you
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Speaker 2: can also see in this clip that this is Washington's
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Speaker 2: game plan. I was surprised myself. I'm sure that they
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Speaker 2: were probably a little surprised. Ryan Walters ran a ton
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Speaker 2: of Cover three, which has not been hit in the past,
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Speaker 2: a ton of this spinning down, so here you can
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Speaker 2: see the field safety spinning down. They were in a
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Speaker 2: ton of cover three both ways, cover three strong, cover
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Speaker 2: through the weak side, getting an eighth pat in the box.
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Speaker 2: Because obviously the High State's game plan was to come out,
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Speaker 2: get pretty heavy and run the football.
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Speaker 3: And as you said, they had some success.
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Speaker 2: I'm not saying they didn't, but this is like, you know,
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Speaker 2: could be somewhat of a formula going forward, like particularly
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Speaker 2: if Claire can can block adequately, like get a little
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Speaker 2: bit more spread out, create some space for the run game.
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Speaker 2: You know, the O High State run games generally, I
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Speaker 2: would say, is like it's the success rate is decent.
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Speaker 2: They're just they're not creating anything explosive like out of it.
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Speaker 2: Whatso you know, it's like basically, I guess you would say,
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Speaker 2: it's people are getting kind of what's blocked up. I
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Speaker 2: think there are quite a few miscutback opportunities. Uh, there's
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Speaker 2: mis cutback opportunities that include as we'll discuss from bo Jackson,
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Speaker 2: I think he missed some holes. You know, I think
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Speaker 2: he he seemed to over emphasize going to where the
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Speaker 2: design hole was as opposed to using his vision. Could
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Speaker 2: be a result of you know, this is what like
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Speaker 2: I would say, the first real opportunity where he's sort
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Speaker 2: of the lead guy in a legit game, and so
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Speaker 2: that could have some of it to do with it. So,
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Speaker 2: you know, just like Julian sand we'll discuss. You know,
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Speaker 2: there's obviously gonna be some growth there and so, but
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Speaker 2: they're just leaning very heavily on a run game that's
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Speaker 2: like not particularly explosive, and so that's what you get
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Speaker 2: sort of these drives that are sort of plotting for
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Speaker 2: lack of a better word. They're not they're not being stuffed,
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Speaker 2: but they're also not it's sort of certainly much more
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Speaker 2: of a grinded out both in terms of the pace
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Speaker 2: and the the you know, yardage.
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Speaker 1: Gained well, and this next play that you've got is
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Speaker 1: very much an example of all of that. They're not
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Speaker 1: exactly stuffed, they are very much grinding it out. This
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Speaker 1: is just Bojackson kind of going into the middle of
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Speaker 1: the line and not finding a whole lot. They are
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Speaker 1: getting getting kind of what's there, but not anything else.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And you know, obviously not to say he
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Speaker 2: didn't have some good runs. I mean that same stretch
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Speaker 2: play I just showed he that third and seventeen before
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Speaker 2: the last touchdown, the same exact play that he gained
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Speaker 2: sixteen and a half yards on, so, you know, still
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Speaker 2: solid performance. But as you said, so they're here, we're back.
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Speaker 2: You know, we're in twelve personnel. We're they're running you know,
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Speaker 2: just inside zone. And as I said, like it's blocked
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Speaker 2: up pretty well. But you know, as I said, like again,
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Speaker 2: Washington's in cover three, the backside safety comes down, so
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Speaker 2: Washington has an extra hat in the box which you
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Speaker 2: can see from the backside. You know, I think again
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Speaker 2: Jackson sort of, I would say, miss that cut back there.
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Speaker 2: That would have at least led to a few yards,
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Speaker 2: you know, I mean this is still I think three
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Speaker 2: or four yards, So as.
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Speaker 3: You said, not bad. But the bigger.
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Speaker 2: Point is that like by doing this, Washington was running
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Speaker 2: all this cover three with really soft, three deep shell
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Speaker 2: behind it, and there were just so many RPO opportunities
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Speaker 2: post snap and early on in the game. I have
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Speaker 2: to think that those reads were not live if I
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Speaker 2: had to guess, because I don't think Sad has seemed
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Speaker 2: reluctant to pull and throw them. But like, for instance,
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Speaker 2: here you have this backside glance RPO to Smith, Like
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Speaker 2: if he throws that, there's a chance that's a a
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Speaker 2: seventy five yard touchdown for Smith catching that on the run.
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Speaker 2: And there were just a lot of those on those
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Speaker 2: first couple of drives where I thought if they had
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Speaker 2: if he was truly reading and pulling and throwing the RPO,
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Speaker 2: you know, Smith might have had two hundred yards receiving
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Speaker 2: in this game because there's just a lot of these
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Speaker 2: backside opportunities. And we'll see like you know, as a
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Speaker 2: Shawn next like part of what sort of opened things up.
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Speaker 2: You know, obviously first drive they go down and they
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Speaker 2: get stopped at the five fourth down play you can
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Speaker 2: talk about like it was a lead lead outside zone. Again,
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Speaker 2: it gets back to this multiple tight end conversations, right,
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Speaker 2: you're using your freshman Nate Roberts as a fullback and
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Speaker 2: like he blocks Jilannie Thurman's guy. I think it's a
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Speaker 2: tough thing to ask like a tight end who doesn't
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Speaker 2: play full back to sort of read where the hole
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Speaker 2: is because he has to read it too right as
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Speaker 2: the lead blocker, like where's the hole developing? Whereas that
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Speaker 2: play side linebacker going to be a block, and so
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Speaker 2: he missed it.
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Speaker 3: CJ.
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Speaker 2: Donaldson Again, it's too high running like in short yardage
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Speaker 2: and they get stopped there. Then they punt on this
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Speaker 2: second drive and then once they sort of take the
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Speaker 2: shackles off of the these RPOs, and that's when they
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Speaker 2: get the offense going well.
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Speaker 1: And this next example, next play is an example of
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Speaker 1: that where instead of handing it off, you pull it
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Speaker 1: and you take the you know it's not it does
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Speaker 1: not that everything's going to go seventy five yards, but
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Speaker 1: if you can get eight yards at a chunk, yeah,
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Speaker 1: you're gonna that's going to keep you on schedule in
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Speaker 1: virtually every situation exactly.
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Speaker 2: And they if you know, some of these that were
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Speaker 2: three and four yard runs in the first couple series
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Speaker 2: turned into these like eight to nine yard pass plays,
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Speaker 2: and you know that was the difference. I mean, there's
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Speaker 2: at least four or five of these RPOs. And again,
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Speaker 2: so Washington, you know we're High States and twelve personnel,
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Speaker 2: so they have both their their nickel down then their
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Speaker 2: backside safety. They're in cover three week again spinning down,
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Speaker 2: so High States running gh counter with this backside comeback
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Speaker 2: round right, So like safety comes down, there's all that space,
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Speaker 2: uh from the boundary corner and saying pulls it and
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Speaker 2: hits Smith. So the players blocked up fine, actually, but
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Speaker 2: obviously you know you're just if you're gonna put the
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Speaker 2: get these bodies in the box and like your quarterbacks
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Speaker 2: now to run threat as we talked about, like you're
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Speaker 2: gonna have to do something. So I tend to think
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Speaker 2: back to your initial question about the tight ends, like
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Speaker 2: I think their offense just given where their strengths is,
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Speaker 2: namely and Smith and Colonel Tape, like are your best players.
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Speaker 2: I'd rather be getting the ball out wide to them
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Speaker 2: than just like trying to get in tight and you know,
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Speaker 2: man ball everything and take those guys off the field.
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Speaker 2: But you know, so once once, as I said, once
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Speaker 2: they started using these, this kind of started to open
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Speaker 2: things up and gave them opportunities. You know, they did
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Speaker 2: this to the backside, they did this the front side,
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Speaker 2: but it was a pretty glaring difference between this and
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Speaker 2: you know, they ran this exact same concept on the
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Speaker 2: second series, handed it off and got like two yards.
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Speaker 2: So you know, as you said, the difference between two
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Speaker 2: yards and nine yards adds up well.
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Speaker 1: And before we get to the next one, I do
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Speaker 1: want to ask you I had this thought, and I've
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Speaker 1: had this thought in previous years as well, where they'll
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Speaker 1: load up with the tight ends and they'll take Jeremiah
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Speaker 1: Smith off the field in the goal line, or they'll
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Speaker 1: tak carninal Tate off the goal line and off the
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Speaker 1: field and the goal in And I understand you're getting
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Speaker 1: more blockers in the box, but then you're getting more
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Speaker 1: defenders in the box too, because they you know, if
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Speaker 1: you have Jeremiah Smith out wide, at least one and
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Speaker 1: possibly two defenders are going to go with him. So
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Speaker 1: it feels like, yeah, I understand the math with more blockers,
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Speaker 1: but also if you can take people away from the ball,
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Speaker 1: you might be able to run it better if the
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Speaker 1: defense is more spread out at the goal line. I mean,
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Speaker 1: is that where do you land on?
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Speaker 3: That?
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Speaker 1: Is that something where I mean? I get sometimes you're
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Speaker 1: going to load up in a goal line formation, But
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Speaker 1: do you do you agree that there's maybe some value
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Speaker 1: in keeping some of those wide receivers on the field.
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Speaker 2: I do, And again I guess obviously you have to
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Speaker 2: trust your quarterback to make those throws like we saw
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Speaker 2: against ou Like, you know, if you get smiss singled
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Speaker 2: up in those situations, and then you have to be
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Speaker 2: able to pay it off, right, but like you know,
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Speaker 2: the trade offs are those heavier formations you're spreading out
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Speaker 2: where we talked about, like the defense. If the quarterbacks
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Speaker 2: under center turning and handing off right, the defense is
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Speaker 2: going to have you out number. So if you've got
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Speaker 2: multiple tight ends or spreading out where that unblocked defender
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Speaker 2: can come from, you are not You're making it so
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Speaker 2: you can run to either side of the formation a
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Speaker 2: little easier versus you know, being in the gun having
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Speaker 2: multiple receivers. So there are there are trade offs, there
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Speaker 2: are some benefits to it. Obviously they did a nice job.
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Speaker 2: You know later in the game they kind of got
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Speaker 2: in that offset halfback formation and you know they handed
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Speaker 2: it off to Donaldson there, like get them a little
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Speaker 2: quicker into the line of scrimmage. I thought after that
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Speaker 2: fourth down run, he also got his pad level lower again,
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Speaker 2: which he needs to do if he's going to be
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Speaker 2: the short yards back. And then they obviously through the
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Speaker 2: play action off of that same formational look or not
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Speaker 2: even play action, but just the sprint out in the
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Speaker 2: flat to Donaldson for the last touchdown. So there's obviously
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Speaker 2: things you can do both ways. But I just tend
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Speaker 2: to agree. I mean, if you're I think right now,
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Speaker 2: the biggest issue, and we'll talk about this with the
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Speaker 2: passing game, as I said, is the lack of explosiveness
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Speaker 2: out of the offense. The efficiency is pretty good, but
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Speaker 2: you just there's not the explosiveness, and I'm not sure
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Speaker 2: they're going.
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Speaker 3: To get it from the run game like they have
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Speaker 3: in the past.
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Speaker 2: And so you know, anytime, if I'm an opposing defensive coordinator,
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Speaker 2: you know, anytime you see I think Jeremiah Smith on
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Speaker 2: the sideline, you've got to I'd be happy with that
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Speaker 2: trade off.
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Speaker 1: Well, then the next one is one where Jeremiah Smith
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Speaker 1: was not only on the field, but Jeremiah Smith was
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Speaker 1: the only guy who was going to get the ball.
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Speaker 1: This is kind of interesting where the ball is very
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Speaker 1: clearly going to Jeremiah Smith that you can tell that
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Speaker 1: because everyone else on the field is blocking. There are
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Speaker 1: wide receivers that are kind of out in routes and
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Speaker 1: they are blocking. This was very clearly designed to go
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Speaker 1: one place in one place only, and that place ended
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Speaker 1: up in the end zone.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, as I said, I mean, Ryan Walters really kind
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Speaker 2: of shed his stripes, at least his traditional stripes for
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Speaker 2: this game. Like that, you know, as we talked about
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Speaker 2: last week, like very heavy man coverage guy, and in
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Speaker 2: this game he ran like basically two things, which is
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Speaker 2: like cover three, like a soft cover three shell get
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Speaker 2: the or like three high Tampa two. But this is
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Speaker 2: the one play he didn't at Ohio State got him
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Speaker 2: for it, and so they're in a covers year here
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Speaker 2: it's third and long, you know, bringing the pressure. This
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Speaker 2: is a traditional situation where you bring cover zero play
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Speaker 2: its force the quarterback.
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Speaker 3: And this is just a nice play call.
12:57
Speaker 2: This is actually a screen pass as you said, Like
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Speaker 2: so in college football, as long as that shallow stays
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Speaker 2: behind where the ball is snapped, you.
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Speaker 3: Know, I think Jeremiah Smith does that. Here.
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Speaker 2: Everyone can go downfield and block right and so you're
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Speaker 2: basically just getting depth and buying time to set up
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Speaker 2: Smith on that shallow wherever and then you allow the
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Speaker 2: rest of your receivers to block their counterpart and Cover
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Speaker 2: zero down the field and creates a touchdown. So nice,
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Speaker 2: nice design in this situation, and you know, catching Washington
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Speaker 2: the right situation.
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Speaker 1: And one of the things that sometimes it's hard to
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Speaker 1: tell when you're watching the game on TV or in person,
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Speaker 1: is you know you're watching the ball. You're watching the
13:45
Speaker 1: quarterback and you're not necessarily able to see all the
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Speaker 1: receivers downfield. So if Julian Sane is holding the ball
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Speaker 1: in the pocket, is that because guys aren't open or not?
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Speaker 1: And one of the great things about the old twenty
13:54
Speaker 1: two is you can see. And there were several times
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Speaker 1: when he had guys open and didn't pull the trigger.
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Speaker 1: And we're gonna look at a couple of those to
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Speaker 1: wrap it up.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this was the big question coming out
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Speaker 2: of the game was like, did did it was Ohio
14:06
Speaker 2: State not trying to push the ball downfield? Was it
14:09
Speaker 2: what Washington was doing with those zone coverages? I discussed
14:12
Speaker 2: it was taking it away. I by my account, I
14:16
Speaker 2: think there were four or five instances where Ohio State
14:19
Speaker 2: called vertical routes, you know, all verts for verticals, three verticals,
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Speaker 2: something that was trying to get the ball down field.
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Speaker 2: There were opportunities to do so, and Saan didn't take them.
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Speaker 3: Now, I do.
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Speaker 2: Think there were times where the pass protection maybe broke
14:37
Speaker 2: down a little bit.
14:39
Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: I would not say it was like the cleanest game
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Speaker 2: of pass protection I've seen from the High State offensive line,
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Speaker 2: and but I do think Sane was like a little
14:47
Speaker 2: quick axo to exit the pocket. So like here's here's
14:50
Speaker 2: our first example. Right, So here's Washington in their three
14:55
Speaker 2: high Tampa. So we've talked about this with how to
14:57
Speaker 2: state defense. Right, you your pole runner there and the
14:59
Speaker 2: two guys. We've got four verticals concept from Ohio State.
15:03
Speaker 2: So against cover two, the one vertical breaks off because
15:07
Speaker 2: you want to get three against two deep. And so
15:09
Speaker 2: he goes sort of on a dig route and I
15:13
Speaker 2: just think, I mean to the field. I think, a
15:17
Speaker 2: you have Bryson Rodgers up the scene, you know, and
15:21
Speaker 2: then you have the whole shot to Colonel Tate, which is,
15:24
Speaker 2: you know, between the cornerback and the safety. Saying looks
15:31
Speaker 2: that way at first you can see from the you know,
15:33
Speaker 2: the closer in view, but then quickly comes off and
15:36
Speaker 2: goes back to Jeremiah Smith to the boundary, who gets
15:40
Speaker 2: pushed out of bounds.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I think not understandably.
15:44
Speaker 2: So there is a tendency for Jillian saying right now
15:47
Speaker 2: to look at Jeremiah Smith as a security blanket, like
15:50
Speaker 2: went in doubt, but he I thought he came off
15:55
Speaker 2: opportunities here. Now you know, he dumps it off again,
15:58
Speaker 2: Like both these these clips, we're gonna show like he
16:00
Speaker 2: dumps it off, like we don't get behind schedule. They
16:03
Speaker 2: don't you know, have a negative play, so it's not
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Speaker 2: like all bad again, like which sort of explains you know,
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Speaker 2: they had what like seven drives, they had one stopped
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Speaker 2: on downs with the five, one pint, three touchdowns, a
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Speaker 2: field goal, and then you know the end of the game.
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Speaker 2: So again, like it's pretty efficient offense, you're just missing
16:22
Speaker 2: these opportunities for explosiveness, which I do think they're gonna
16:25
Speaker 2: have to to get going forward.
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Speaker 3: I don't think it's a question.
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Speaker 2: You know, there's a debate like can sand there's a
16:31
Speaker 2: question of like kansand physically do it with his arm
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Speaker 2: strength versus like does he just need to pull the trigger?
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Speaker 2: And I lean in the latter category, like I've seen
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Speaker 2: him he throws a nice deep ball. I don't think
16:43
Speaker 2: there's any question that he has the arm strength to
16:46
Speaker 2: hit these throws to the field. I just think he
16:48
Speaker 2: just needs to be more decisive. And I just think
16:50
Speaker 2: first game on the road, being conservative, probably a little
16:54
Speaker 2: jittery in the pocket, and so just something that's gonna
16:57
Speaker 2: have to develop going forward.
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Speaker 1: And then this last one, this is one that I'm
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Speaker 1: sure Julian said did not love watching in the film room,
17:05
Speaker 1: because this is one where Jeremiah Smith's running a little
17:07
Speaker 1: bit of an out and up and it's like, boy,
17:11
Speaker 1: that's that's one where you probably want to put that
17:13
Speaker 1: ball out there and let him go try and do
17:14
Speaker 1: what he does, because for as often as he was
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Speaker 1: double covered, he was kind of almost not covered on
17:20
Speaker 1: this one.
17:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:22
Speaker 2: And again, so like to me, I think it has
17:24
Speaker 2: multiple guys open here. This is a four vertical so
17:27
Speaker 2: against cover three. Again, you're getting four versus three, right,
17:30
Speaker 2: So like when we talk about coverage beaters, like this
17:32
Speaker 2: is not defendable by three deep defensive backs against four
17:36
Speaker 2: vertical routes, right, And so you have Jeremiah Smith and
17:39
Speaker 2: Colonel Tate to the same side, and for my money,
17:43
Speaker 2: you could throw either of those routes, like you could
17:44
Speaker 2: hit Tate up the slot towards the pash marks or
17:49
Speaker 2: as that corner as you said, as that corner, then
17:51
Speaker 2: tries to make his way to towards Tate. You have
17:54
Speaker 2: Smith on the out and up, and again, like you know,
17:57
Speaker 2: I think you could argue like he felt the pressure
18:00
Speaker 2: breaking down on him, like he's getting some interior pressure,
18:04
Speaker 2: he's kind of getting happy feet in the pocket there
18:06
Speaker 2: a little bit, and you know he dumps it off
18:08
Speaker 2: and again it's like, so you're staying ahead of schedule.
18:10
Speaker 2: It's not going to hurt you, but you're just missing opportunities.
18:14
Speaker 2: And I said, like, big picture wise, like you know,
18:17
Speaker 2: right now, the Ohio State offense, I think an SP
18:20
Speaker 2: plus is like down to sixteenth. You know, they played
18:24
Speaker 2: Texas that game, they really sort of turtled it, so
18:27
Speaker 2: you know, statistics can kind of this early in the
18:30
Speaker 2: season be a little off, but like they're just as
18:33
Speaker 2: P plus in particular is going to like punish them
18:35
Speaker 2: for the lack of explosiveness because that's what that metric
18:38
Speaker 2: is based on, but that's just where they're what they need,
18:42
Speaker 2: like and I just think it's going to have to
18:43
Speaker 2: come from saying getting more comfortable in the passing game
18:46
Speaker 2: because that's where your two best players are on offense.
18:49
Speaker 2: And I don't think you, as I said, I wouldn't
18:51
Speaker 2: be counting on the run game necessarily to get it
18:54
Speaker 2: from where the running backs are at this moment, I
18:55
Speaker 2: think they need those two and Max Claire, you know,
18:58
Speaker 2: I thought he was open multiple times on sort of
19:01
Speaker 2: similar steam routes that they're just gonna have. They're going
19:05
Speaker 2: to have to sit as saying it's more comfortable. Yeah,
19:09
Speaker 2: get him to the point where he's he's ready and
19:11
Speaker 2: willing to pull it and hit these throws.
19:15
Speaker 1: All right, So there's your look at the Ohio State
19:17
Speaker 1: offense against Washington. We'll get to the Ohio State defense
19:20
Speaker 1: against Washington coming up with Ross a little later on
19:22
Speaker 1: in the week. And when we do, we will once
19:24
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19:26
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19:29
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19:37
Speaker 1: will do it for today. Thank you guys all for
19:39
Speaker 1: joining us. Have a great day.
19:40
Speaker 3: We will talk to tomorrow.