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Monique Kelley: Embrace Your Bold Side · The Bold Lounge

• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And today we have Monique Kelly.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: She is the associate professor at Boston University College of Communication, and she is the CEO of our own consultancy, Monique Kelly Consulting.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Monique.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Lee.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love, I'd love for you just to do an intro of yourself for our guests who are listening, and then we'll jump into being bold.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So hot off the press.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm moving into two new opportunities.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: As you mentioned, I'm an associate professor of the practice strategic communications for BU's College of Communication, where I actually graduated a few decades.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll leave it at that ago.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been adjuncting for the last couple of years during COVID.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then also during this time, as I was moving into this new role, I thought the best professors that I had were also people who were still one foot in the industry.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I am not ready to leave pharma communications where I've spent my last 20 years on the agency side as well as corporate, most recently working with Takeda.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did launch my own consultancy so that I can continue to work with pharma in addition to providing the students that I teach an opportunity to connect with real life professionals such as myself and former colleagues and clients.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So important to understand kind of the relevant issues, have, like you said, foot in the areas in which you're actually teaching about, because otherwise it becomes stale or just the certain chapter that you know.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that idea of being able to do both and also the freedom of that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: It must must feel different than kind of where you were before.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'll jump into that maybe later.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So how would you define bold in your journey?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was interestingly because as I was listening to your podcast, what really caught my attention was this notion of being bold, because that is such a strong word.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes it can have a negative connotation as well as a positive one.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so fortuitously, I had a executive coach that Takeda had set me up with.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And my score was a 92% out of 100.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So of course I'm looking at that and I'm thinking, is this a good thing?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a little too much?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so the coach had mentioned to me, well, it's a good thing as long as you don't overuse it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it really depends on which you know circumstances that you're in.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just wanted to read a couple of the definitions for bold to be, you know, my geeky science brain coming out here.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought it was interesting this notion of bold for the Hogan being confidence in ability and seemingly fearless when facing difficult tasks, a self-confident person who will take charge in social situations.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: I also thought this was interesting to say assertive style may intimidate some.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then one that I totally resonate with, especially having the luxury of mentoring and being an advocate for others in the field, it's that we will support others' careers while actively managing our own.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So this notion of bold isn't necessarily just for ourselves, but also making sure that you know the the folks in our care are also taken good care of as well.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if that last one is like your sponsorship factor, right?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: We hear a lot about getting a mentor, but it's more so now, like we need sponsors.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: We need someone who brings us to the table or opens the door and pushes us in it, you know.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not always about like when I was gonna say when I was growing up, you know, in college, it was like get a mentor.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and mentors are very good.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying we shouldn't have them, but I think the sponsorship piece comes with what you just talked about was you're taking care of your own at the same time, you're taking care of others with regard to their career.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I love the bold factor.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love your 92 out of 100, too.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm talking to the right person for this episode for sure.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think about that bold factor and you think about your definition of it, when's your first moment of like that was bold?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did something that I never thought I could do or was really uncomfortable to do, or by your definition, what's your first memory of bold?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for me it was even pre uh professional life when I was going to Boston University.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the uh women's track team.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, I only had to run with the cross-country team but not race with the cross-country team because that was gruesome.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: 3.1 miles is long.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: My event was the 1500 meters, so a little bit shy of a mile.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what was interesting is that you know, I'd run since I was 14.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was a race that I was very comfortable with.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the collegiate D1 level, I just found that the training was really just breaking down my body, frankly.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was I had a lot of injuries, and one of them that I remember vividly was a femoral stress fracture.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you're taught in running to just run through pain.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did just that run through pain.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one of the doctors at BU had looked at my scans and said, you might not want to walk, let alone run.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: He saw that I had this stress fracture and basically was like, I don't know how you're running on it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I gave myself rest.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was during holiday time, so I definitely had a nice, you know, Christmas dinner and like laying down and eating and having a good time in New Jersey where I'm from.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: But getting back on the track and rehabbing this femoral stress fracture, pool running, all kinds of different cross-training, and thinking to myself, I don't know if I'm gonna come back and be able to run the times that I did, but I'm going to try and try really hard.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember coming back from almost, I would say, six, seven months of not racing and running my first race, which was a conference, the regional conference race, and getting my all-time best time or PR, as we say in the running world.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that just, I mean, partly I was shocked, but the other half of me just kind of felt that, well, that was pretty bold to just honestly say that I'm gonna just try my best.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if I don't do it, then at least I'm gonna say I gave it my best effort.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the earliest, I think, memory of just saying, well, if I want something, you know, do what you need to do to get it, put the time in to get it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I started to have in the professional side after graduating from BU, these opportunities where plans would come up that I I didn't necessarily set out for.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just have that same faith in myself to say, well, not sure really what this is about, but if it's an opportunity that presents itself, you know, how could I say no?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so going into, I actually worked in New York after I graduated VU for a couple of decades.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the first job that I had, it was an agency PR role.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember my boss at the time asking me, you know, what is your 10-year plan?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's the goal?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking to myself, well, can I say that I want her job?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is that bad?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: But but that's all I knew.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I figured, well, yeah, I'm in 10 years, maybe I could be a vice president on the agency side, working with clients.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's pretty much what I set out to do.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: But nobody ever tells you with these 10-year goals.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Once you reach the 10-year goal, then what, right?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's the next 10 years or five years?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just remember reaching that goal.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was grateful to reach that goal very early on in my career, but it was both a positive thing and a negative thing for me.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because then I thought, all right, well, is the is the bar too low?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Should I be more assertive with what I want out of my career?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it that I like what is it?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: What ultimately is going to help keep me motivated and grow, but yet feel like I'm in control of my past.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a really tough time because I really didn't know what else to do, frankly, um, as crazy as that sounds after meeting my goal.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so then another opportunity presented itself.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this opportunity was in Boston.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, my husband ended up taking a job here, which would allow me to transfer from the agency where I worked in the New York office to the Boston office.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember doing that and thinking, okay, this could be part of my, you know, continuation of a goal, just to continue to work where I was.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciated the clients that I was working with and the team.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was transferring to Boston, the leadership there kind of asked me, like, well, are you going to be comfortable working with corporate healthcare clients?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't really do the product communication, the Marcom's work that I do in New York.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, our team in New York pretty much had done.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, I was presented with a fork in a road of do I try to learn something new?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my experience was in product, but do I try the executive visibility corporate route?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or is there something else?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so just being open, going off script and saying, I don't know much about the corporate side, but I certainly can try.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know how to be strategic and I know how to look at you know solutions for clients' problems.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And as I was doing that, Lee, I kind of felt like, well, I I'm not using 80% of the experience that I have, which is on the product side.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to go out and talk to the three clients that I had in in New York that were uh physically based in Boston to just start networking and leveraging relationships to see perhaps how I could bring in product business and really change the course of our healthcare group.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I did.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I ended up, I had a client who was lovely, who I really um respected and and liked working with.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And she was gracious enough to pull the team that I was on in to pitch.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a nine-agency competitive pitch, and we won.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that business ended up being something that was uh the top revenue driver of the office, the entire office in Boston.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was product, so it allowed me to go back to what I knew.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, just this notion of going off script and and perhaps not necessarily having it all planned, but just leveraging opportunities that come your way to build something that was, you know, magical and something that I never thought I would set out to do for that company.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of notches of bold on on your continuum there.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: A few things I want to go back to though.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think all the way back to the injury, you know, you you were injured and you said, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna train and I'm gonna do my best.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I may not be at the same time I was, but you actually did better.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we can extrapolate that out a bit to things that happen in our life, maybe not on a track, but you know, I'm gonna take time, I'm gonna pause, I'm going to, whether it's focus on myself or focus on my, you know, figuring out my business plan or, you know, working to understand what my next move is, taking time to do some self-care, which you've heard a lot about.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're gonna come back in.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there's like when you came back in from that time off and with family and the holidays, did you have was it renewed?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have like a renewed spirit to get at it and to get back to it and to try it?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And to, like you said, I think you had tenacity to keep going and not just say, well, you know, that happened.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I'm not, I don't want to get hurt again.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: What's a what's a what's a learning from that that you think you extrapolate into some of the things that you've done in your life?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a big word for me is resilience, is you know, we're all dealt different cards in life, especially, you know, COVID and and other things that you can't control.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can stay there and you can be frustrated, which, you know, trust me, I'm I'm always frustrated.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's easier said than done.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: But to just try to get past that and to have a goal, whatever that goal is, it doesn't always have to be, you know, I like I said, I didn't go into it with thinking that I would get a PR or a you know the best time.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to be able to run again.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think sometimes not selling yourself short and being able to say maybe you can have a bold goal.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you don't reach that goal, you can learn from it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always going to be a benefit in being a little bit more assertive and bolder in your dreams.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um, just know that sometimes you can't plan for whatever the setback is, as well as your next move to continue to grow and to develop, and you know, the case of the professional side.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's an interesting point because I don't think I ever have set out like my goals for the year, bold goal, this one bold goal.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're just goals, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't look at it, at least I don't, as through a filter of oh, you know, that's bold.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just that's how we operate.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're doing, that's what we're putting out there as our goal.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and it becomes something that through adversity or through resilience or through understanding ourselves better, you know, you could insert kind of the learning, it becomes bold because there's learning in there, there's authenticity, there's alignment, there's something that's hitting that if it just was a plain old goal, it wouldn't be the same as a bold goal in my mind.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's interesting you don't specifically say, oh, I am bold and this is what I'm doing, but you can name it.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes people find it difficult to even say they're bold.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you thought maybe that factor, oh, is that good or bad?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, you know, things sometimes we're hot that, you know, not to be bold or maybe you know, be polite, have a lot of harmony, don't show discourse, you know, don't disagree, watch, you know, watch your politics where you work, those types of things.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes, you know, being bold is not welcomed.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and trust me, coming from, like I said, I'm from South Jersey.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I worked most of my career in New York City.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So coming here, that definitely was something that I still get.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, wow, you're very passionate, or wow, you talk really fast.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I look at that and say, oh, well, maybe I should, you know, maybe temper it a little bit or you know, try to fit in.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I've been here now since 2014 in Boston, and I kind of told myself, I can't fit in for the life of me.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a unique individual.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So for those unique individuals out there, you know, if you're gonna be unique, then do it all the way and be bold about that as well.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So own it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I own it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, own it.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm proud after a long time of trying to figure out how do I adapt.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm just saying, you know what, forget it, and I own it and I'm okay.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's in it's in the Hogan assessment that I am bold and and I'm I'm okay with that.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay, it's all right, it's really a good thing.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think even you know, introvert, extrovert, you there's boldness and in all of them.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's what's interesting and kind of uncovering that and tapping that and people being able to identify that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, for sure.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Another question back to running, and sorry I'm sticking here for a little bit, was that you were a sprinter.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a way, you did the 1500, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So 1500 meters, is that what you said?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt like a sprint, so yes.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, it kind of is to be I know it's not a sprint sprint, but compared to cross-country, yes, it's a whole other ballgame.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I ran to 300 in junior high, and then I played softball and soccer and other things.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I did the track one year and did the 300 and I threw the disc because no one else, no girls were there to do it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they asked me if I would do it and I threw the disc.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And for a little while I had the I had the record uh in middle school.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably broken by now.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: But so what I learned in that time is there's a different strategy to sprinting than there is a longer race, like the 1500.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So 300 to 1500, obviously, mine is like to get at it and get all of it in every every yard I can get.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: 1500, a different strategy, and then cross-country, a whole nother, you know, mindset for how you should strategize.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are things from the 1500 from a running perspective that actually, as we think about, you know, a short race versus a long race in our lives that we can we can think through that you you you could pull out for us.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So 1500 definitely it's funny you you mentioned it's a sprint because that's how I used to think of it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got to college and it was like, oh, you're a mid-distance runner, but it's such a fast race and you don't really have a lot of time to think about it the way that you can in cross country or even some of these longer road races that I do now for fun, although it's it's not fun during the race, but afterwards when I'm you know done, it's it's definitely fun.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say, you know, just it's a thinking race.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking to myself, I can't go out too fast.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I go out too fast, nobody ever wants to be the lead in the 1500.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's actually a strategy that the coach always would say is it's okay to be second and get right on the shoulder of the person in front of you, because that way you can gauge how you're doing, how that person's doing a lot better than if you're leading the pack.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was always a negative thing to lead.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that not in that particular race that I PR, but in general, I've been in races where because of the pace of the other runners, I did have to lead.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a scary position because, you know, again, we're always taught, you don't want to lead, you don't want to lead.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're there, you really do have to rely on pretend no one else is there.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're leading, you don't see them, but also that you know if you've been running for a while, you kind of know your pace and you know to lean in on what pace are you going?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you get to set that pace, which is a very bold position to be in, although not one that's encouraged.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so there have been times where I'm leading a race for you know three laps and the little less half a lap, someone would pass, or you know, where you're leading a little bit and then you're not able to keep that position.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it really just depends on every race is unique.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I apply it to life and and career as well as you know, what works for one race doesn't necessarily work for another.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: It really depends on, you know, the pace, the weather, if you're outside.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so many variables that you can't control.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And similarly, with with companies in PR, there's always uh debate like is agency better or in-house is better?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say, well, I I, you know, worked in both settings.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not about what's better or what's not better, it's more about that unique opportunity or that unique company.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So similar to running in that way, that if it's one race, it's really just one race.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot in there.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a couple of things, you don't always have to be in first to be running the race and making progress towards whatever you're running towards or your goals.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think being right there on the shoulder of first, I love that idea, and I can like visualize that in a business perspective.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you're leading, you know how to set your pace, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know you're in the lead, and then setting the pace to know when you can go faster or when you need to slow down and using your you know, strategic peripheral, right?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So thinking about okay, should I be going a little faster or do I need to slow down so I can actually speed up later?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I love those analogies to kind of just things, things you learn along the way that you might, wow, like I get that now.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing you brought in was just not being able to control the variables.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we just had to give ourselves some slack every now and then to go, you know, I didn't know it was gonna pour in rain and I was gonna spin out, or whatever it may be, or it was a different kind of track setting, or you know, just even the the the way that you know the water hit the track, or whatever it may be, you can't actually control it.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can just run your race.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something we can all extrapolate to, like you feel proud, you know you did your best.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really that's the best is all you can do.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if you did that, then you've already succeeded.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I love those those things that you said there.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that you talked about was really to me, as you were talking about the different experiences from New York to Boston and working across from product to some of the Marcomp things that you did to some of the The corporate pieces is you were building a portfolio of experiences, it seems like.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you created a unique talent, you know, stack of what you're doing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Talk a little bit about that because I think that is really relevant for today for people to know they don't have to be like one layer to think about a rock on the side.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me about the advantages to doing the things that you talked about there that really in my mind were somewhat analogous to portfolioing your experiences.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and Lee, I never set out for a portfolio career.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I was in college, graduated college of communication.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the only reason why I even graduated with a PR degree was because I failed biology.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wasn't able to become a nutritionist, which is what I really went to school for.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, okay, what else can I do?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I love uh writing and you know, and high school journalism was a big part of my life.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really leaned into that and thankfully I found what I love, you know, the my junior year going into those classes.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then after graduating, I just assumed I would be on the agency side because that's what I liked.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, did a few internships on the agency side, and I felt that you could learn a lot because you have different clients and different people.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I just felt like that was the right setting for me.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, having come here from New York to Boston and you know, working in the agency setting, another former agency person who ended up in-house on the corporate side at Takeda, she reached out to me and essentially said, well, with the acquisition of Shire in in 2019, Takeda now is a company that is really trying to build and grow, and that the competitors were top 10 pharma.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the company was now large in size and that we did need and appreciate people from the consultancy side to help us get to a position where we were operating like a top 10 pharma.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a lot of my experience working with GSK and JJ and Pfizer and others.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I never thought I was going to go on the corporate side.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just assumed after 16 years of agency that I would continue on that path.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it kind of was one of those going off script moments where an opportunity presented itself and I could pass it by and think maybe in the future another company that just acquired another one and had this really unique opportunity would present itself again, or I could take it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, as much as I didn't want to leave the agency where I worked, I felt you don't always have to move away from something to run towards something else.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I also looked at it as the first time in my career where I felt very confident and comfortable in what I was doing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the impetus for why I left, because I figured it was time for me to get a little uncomfortable again and to, you know, try try something new and to learn and flex that muscle.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I ended out that decada for a good three and a half years before another fork had presented itself.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about your influences with regard to how you define leadership and how you define how you would direct your team, how you run your classroom, what are some of your influences that you have?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my leadership style has always been more of a situational leadership style.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So similarly to what I've been sharing is well, what works with one person or one team of people doesn't necessarily work with others.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: While I was at Takeda, I worked for the RD department in communications for a year before going back to my bread and butter for marketing communications.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the leadership style and just my style in general that I had to have with our neuroscience group, our commercial operations group, our comms group, you know, every group I needed to flex and bring out a different part of my personality and leadership.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was very used to doing that because of the agency background.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this notion of a portfolio career is such that each opportunity builds on each other.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would not have been a successful or strong corporate pharma communications leader if I didn't have those experiences on the agency side.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I would not have been a strong adjunct professor if it wasn't for both the experiences on the agency side as well as the corporate side.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So each, I'm starting to notice each opportunity really builds off of each other and just allows me to flex not only in my leadership style, but also in just the knowledge that I'm able to provide, whether that's with students or clients or others.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you think about your own consultancy now.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are the key things that you're going to focus or focusing on with your clients and your engagements?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I look at this as an extension of the work that I've done, both on the agency side as well as at Decata.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always say it's it's a jack of all trades role, having led two business units at Decata, our neuroscience group as well as our commercial operations group, and working hand in hand with our chief operating officer, I'm really able to bring a jack of all trades multi-skill to clients.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so whether that's working with C-suite on their executive visibility or working with products, everything from the RD side of an investigational product to a therapy all the way and you know, almost, you know, patent loss.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've worked in that space as well.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really just depends on the need of the client.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can really customize what I can bring to the table for them instead of in my old days focusing so much on just product or just this and that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Really, it's about looking at what is the unique need and challenge of the client and how can I help to support that need.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And their own personal brand, which is big, you know, in the sense of the things that we're we're doing each day in our businesses and our lives, and how do we create that?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do we ever need a refresh or just a reframe?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sounds like some of the things that you'd be able to do, basically extrapolating all that knowledge on the product side, but also being able to do things with organizations in a broader perspective as well.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that comes out of that is just you know, people being able to feel confident in doing something different.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were going to give someone advice in being able to take, you know, what they've done or be able to think about, you know, doing something different now in their lives, no matter what what year it is, how old you are, what is that advice you would give someone to just say yes to something that does feel a little bit uncomfortable in their gut?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I would say think back to your purpose.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, ultimately, what do you want out of your career?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want out of life?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this this time of COVID, although horrible, um, was a time for all of us, hopefully, to reflect and to really think about what makes us happy because not to be so morbid, but you know, life's not guaranteed.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so how do we make sure that we're not putting off things that we might feel, oh, we'd love to get to, but in 10 years, you know, going back to that 10-year plan.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what if we can speed that up?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the opportunity to become a professor was something that just came out of left field for me.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I remember coming back when I came back to Boston after working in New York.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I would just guest lecture a little bit on the side for fun.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: I also selfishly wanted a really great pool of candidates for internships, junior level roles at the agency where I worked.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I figured, well, let me actually guest speak, let me connect and network with some of the students and bring them in, recruiting them to the agency.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And after doing that for a little bit, falling into adjuncting.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then one of my mentors and a person who I had guest spoke for her class pretty much asked, Would you want to do this one day?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And of course I was like, Do what?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like adjunct, continue to adjunct?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, No, no, no, like actually have a full-time job.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, yeah, like 10 years from now, maybe I didn't think I could even be a candidate to do something like that now.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember she kind of looked at me and said, Well, you know, I'm a former corporate person.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's making you feel like it has to be something in 10 years?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because frankly, you have more experience than a lot of us here.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have 20 years.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: How much, how much more do you think you need to be ready?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking to myself, I mean, I guess she's right.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't, you know, that's an interesting question.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: How how many, and especially I think women, um, times do we feel we need to really have like 110% experience and then some before either even considering something that is in our 10 or 20 year plans.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember she said that, and I said, well, I guess you're right.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I could try.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's the harm in applying for it?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what's the harm in having the right conversations and see what happens?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there was still this doubt in my head that I don't think that they're really going to accept me.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when they did, of course, I thought to myself, I could stay where I am, which is again another position of comfort that I know that I feel really good about, and with people who I really like working with, or I can get out of my comfort zone, which will enable me to continue to grow, to learn, and to add value and really lean into my purpose, which is really helping to support and influence whether that's the next generation of professionals, or also just, you know, women, particularly women of color, in an industry where we aren't necessarily really represented.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so that I feel could be a good litmus, you know, if if folks kind of really look at what is your ultimate purpose?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about, you know, how old you are, don't worry about if this is something you can see yourself doing in 10, 20 years.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just know that if it presents itself, you know, take a calculated risk, be bold and say what can happen.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people remind me, and Takeda and folks reminded me, corporate's not going anywhere.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you try it and you're a horrible professor and the students are saying, oh my God, like what did you do?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can always come back to a pharmaceutical company.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a once in a lifetime, or at least I felt it was to be able to teach.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a true honor and something that I felt if I thought about it in 10 years, why not speed that up?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I'm doing.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So focus on the purpose.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll just leave this with everyone who's listening is how much more experience do you really feel you need to be ready?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's just pause there and think about that because I think it is very important for people to understand if you feel you're not ready, you're most likely ready.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's never going to be perfectly in a box with a bow.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And nothing's guaranteed, like you said, but going in and trying it, you'll learn from the experiences, and there's ways for you to navigate to the next thing if that's not the right thing for you, but you'll learn from it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate hearing your bold journey and hearing your story, and I know you've inspired others today.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, Monique, for being on the bold lounge.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Lee.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: With a continuum of bold stories, vulnerability and taking the lead.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: You will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting the story,