Latest / Two Personal with Joy Taylor / Jameela Jamil On Trauma, Rage, Healing & Why Women Are Exhausted

Transcript

Jameela Jamil On Trauma, Rage, Healing & Why Women Are Exhausted · Two Personal with Joy Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm horrified by well I've been let into and what
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: others around me are.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm trying to, you know, raise the alarm.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Hey guys, welcome too Personal. I'm Joy Taylor, and I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: so excited to have Jammy le Jamil on the podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming Vices, thank you for
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: having me. I have admired you for a very long time.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: I think that you're so brilliant and I love you
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: your your clips have been being so unapologetic and you're
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: very talented.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: So I'm just really honored that you've come on the show.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I think you're fantastic.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Thank you. We're so glad to have you here. I
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: guess we should start with I have all these notes.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: From London, obviously, so you can hear by the beautiful
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: accents and actress in the good place, having never acted before.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: As we were just discussing.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Currently hosts Wrong Turns, which launched April twenty twenty five,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: I actually got to see this in person for.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: The next Fast. I'm very sorry that was that you first.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It was an impression of very good.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: It's very good, and it's very refreshing because it's an
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: anti Inspiration comedy podcast where guests share their failures and
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: actually I learned a lot about some of my favorite
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: comedians that night. So it also runs a sub stack
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: a Low Desire to Please, which I recently just read
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: your most recent substack posts and I was very vulnerable,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: very honest about your current state of your mental health
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: and having a nervous breakdown.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: I find it.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I found it very relatable in a lot of ways.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I like you have had a very traumatic childhood. I've
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: dealt with a lot of similar things that I've heard
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: you discussed, as far as trauma with men and physical abuse,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: sexual abuse, sexual harassment, all the TikTok tictick, And I
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: was really horrified for you, but could also very much
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: relate to what went on. And you should go go
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: read her substec posts so that you have some more
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: clarity on like this, how extensive it was.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: But how are you feeling?
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: As you know, as you mentioned, like the only way
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: out is through and it's a lot.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I I won't go too far into its.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Every time I do, I get retraumatized.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: But I was attacked in the street a few months
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: ago by a man, of course, and then he called
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: other men for backup in I think was a kidnapping attempt,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and not based on who I was. It was just
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: random because this is happening to women and kids all
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: over the world all the time. And about a week
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: later I was I've been shocked afterwards, and I managed
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to kind of get safely back to my home country.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And then I was asked why I'd left my hotel
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: alone at six pm, and I snapped. I snapped for
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: forty years of being expected to be solely responsible for
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: my safety and the onus never being on men to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: not hurt women, and there was just something about it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's just turning forty in the
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: way you take stock of your life, and either way
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you take stock of your trauma. I don't know if
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: you neurologically everything catches up with you. But there was
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: just something about being asked that after something so heinous
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and unprovoked, not that it's ever provoked, but it was
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: so completely random and such poor luck to be asked
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: why I'd left my hotel room at six pm in
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the afternoon, which is essentially the end of end of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: like just.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: The day work.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, forty, I'm five ft ten and a half, Like,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: there's just nothing about what I did was irresponsible. Also,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: nothing we do should ever be considered irresponsible. Nothing provokes
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: any kind of sexual or physical crime against anyone. And
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: it wasn't really my mental health that went into a spiral.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: It was my nervous system. And it was really fascinating
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to understand that, like this kind of fugue state I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: went into, or I just couldn't really speak. I kept
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: on going mute for days at a time, and I
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: didn't really know who I was or who anyone else was.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You know, I cognitively understood intellectually, I understood who the
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: people around me were, but I didn't feel any relation
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: to any of them, including my partner of twelve years.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like I describe it in the piece
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: as feeling like I'd been dropped into someone else's life
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  Speaker 1: and I had a script for how to be able
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: to maintain her relationships, but I didn't know who she was,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: and I didn't remember any good times in her life.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: And it's really dangerous when this happens, especially because there's
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: no information about it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what.
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  Speaker 1: Depersonalization was, which is what that is, or derealization was,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: which is what that is. I didn't know about something
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: called dorsal vagel shutdown, which is the complete breakdown and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: collapse of your nervous system. No one's ever told me
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: about that, no one ever. I've just been everything to
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: do with women's grief and PTSD has always been kind
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of turned into depression for which you're given an SSRI,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and that can be great and life saving, but also
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: that can further dissociate you sometimes. So I was always
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: told that these moments that I'm feeling are my mental health,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So therefore I thought there's a way you can psychologically
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: get around it. That's not the case with a nervous
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: system shut down like dorsal vagel collapse. You can't think
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: your way out of that. It is a long process
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to tell your body you're safe. You know, when you're
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in vital flight, you're running away from the tiger, But
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: when you're in dorsal vagel collapse, it's as though the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: tiger has caught you and is eating you, and you dissociate,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: which I think any of us who experienced sexual trauma
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: or any kind of physical violence in the moment, often
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: you just freeze and leave your body, and that's what
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that is. And it was really intense to for the
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: first time as it was happening in real time, understand
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not having a mental health crisis. My nervous system
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: has come so overwhelmed by men that it can't actually
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: figure out how to function in this world. Because it's
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: kind of like being bitten by a shark and then
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: being forced to live in the sea for the rest
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: of your life. Being hurt by so many men in
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: my life and then being forced to live amongst them,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: even if some of them are good, it's absolutely it's
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: terrorism for the psyche, and so I'm dealing with the
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: onslaught of that. And I wanted to because I'd never
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: been told about any of this. I wanted to make
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: sure as many people, especially women, knew that that's what
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: that feeling is.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: And you're not crazy.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: You are your body is actually doing something that is
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: trying to protect you. But you experience a shut down
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: across all your systems, So your digestive system stops, your
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: metabolism stops, your memory stops, you can't sleep, it's just
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: fucking chaos. And then doctors will at best give you
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a pill and not give you any instructions for all
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the somatic things you have to do to pull yourself
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: out of it, And how fucked that we have to
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: pull ourselves out of it after someone else has inflicted
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: them instability onto us and they're violence.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm fine.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: How are you?
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: How did you find out about all of this? Because
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: when I was reading it like that, there was so much,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: as you said obviously that I related to, and the
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: nervous system A thing is something that I'm dealing with
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: a lot as well.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: And I recently had all my.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Blood work done and the medical professional that I was
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: working with was like, you have the stress level of
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: an NSA agent who is trying to like fight hackers
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: to keep the grid up and can't talk to their
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: partner about what they do at work because it's state secrets.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: It was like so specific, specific, and I was.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: Like, why do you know that, Like, why do you
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: know what they're with that kind of stress level is?
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: And he was like, what, I work with.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Some of them, so I've seen their results. Like what
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: are you doing that is so stressful? And I was like,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: I don't really have a stressful life right now, but
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: my body is still responding to trauma like, it's functioning
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: as if it is unsafe, and no matter how many
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: times my brain says you're safe, my body is not listening.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: So it's holding we water weight. My corsal levels are high,
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: my stress levels are high. My like it's not functioning
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: the way that it's supposed to be functioning, even though
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I'm taking care of it because my body is traumatized
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: and it's not. They're not communicating with each other. So
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: that part I very much related to. But what how
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: did you find out about it? Did you do research
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: or did you talk to a professional?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: It was it was just it was the first time,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: so all the other times has happened. It's happened like
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: three separate times in my life in forty years of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: being on this planet. It's happened first time. I was fifteen,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: then twenty six, then I think I was thirty four,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: And each of those times my life wasn't great, so
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: it was hard to tell how much darkness I'd slipped
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: into because my life was just generally quite dark, whereas
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: this time I'd had quite a reparatory, wonderful life that
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I could remember I'd left behind to become this weird monotone,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: speaking dead like boor I have become in the last
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: couple of months. So sorry that this is a version
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: of me you get on your podcast, but.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I knew. I was like, oh, something has gotten very
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: very wrong like here.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And so I love my partner and I could see
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: how scared he was, and I was very very I
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: felt very suicidal, and I feel a deep responsibility to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: him that I'm unable to access for myself. I'm not
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: very good at looking after myself, but I can look
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: after anyone else. So I thought, okay, for his take,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get to the bottom of this. So
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I started researching my symptoms, and it was telling me
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: that there might be something wrong with my nervous system.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So I just looked up what kind of practitioners you
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: go to for your nervous system, and they were like,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: you know, cranial osteopathy, acupuncture, somatic like body workers. They
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: were like, this is not a problem in your mind.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: This is a problem in your body and your nervous system.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: So I was like, right, So.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I went to a bunch of those different types of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: practitioners and all three of them, you know, confirmed that
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I was in dorsal vagel collapse. And the reason they
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: could tell us because they were testing my pulse to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: my digestive system and my general pulse and my blood
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: pressure which was near dead. So it's not the sort
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: of thing that you can just tell a doctor you have.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: They could just assess it from. And then my blood
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: results came back with like comically high cortisol, probably quite
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: similar to you as if I was in active attack.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: And so through all of those measures they ascertained that
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I'm in dorsal veagle collapse. And my body was gaining
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: weight rapidly. And I'm someone who normally eats a lot
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and stays very slim, come from a very thin family, Like,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: it's not normal for my body to expand this speed.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: It's clearly like a metabolism shut down. And so I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: was just retaining water so puffy. My body just feels
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: so water logged all the time. And so they all
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: kind of guided me through it, but still didn't give
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: me loads of information on how to actively look after myself.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't know you're not supposed to exercise to
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: figure that one out the hard way. Didn't know that
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: breath work can be really bad for you. Really, Yeah,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: it can make things, especially the type that's like that
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: whim half like, yeah, that can exacerbate you and tell
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: your body, oh my god, she's out of breath, she's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: running out breat You must be in danger again, she
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: must be running from an attacker again. So that made
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: me much worse. I didn't know that, like, because I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: didn't have any appetite. I wasn't eating very much. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: was not eating very much and gaining the most weight
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I'd ever gained. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Because I wasn't eating much. My body was like, oh,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: she's some famine that send more quarter soul. Let's hang
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: on to more water. And so all these things. I've
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: just been kind of trial and erroring my way around,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: just trying to do things for my mental health. Even
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: going for a long walk in the sun terrible, the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: sunshine not great when you're.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: In this state.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: What is good for you lying down in the dark
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: in a cool room and being around safe people and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: eating foods that bring you comfort. So I have gone
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: back to a coffee and two chocolate muffins in the morning,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm feeling much better for it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And I uh and.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Really just being very very gentle, like fifteen minutes of
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a slow walk a day, just really telling your body
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: again and again and again, especially through kind of self talk,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: which I've never done because I'm British and we really
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: look down on that sort of thing because we're cunts,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: and so learning to go I am.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Safe, like you are safe. I'm going to look after you.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I don't have any expectations of you.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: You just do whatever you need to do, like talk,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: like making sure that your body understands that you are
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: in there is no risk posed to you. And so
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what I've been doing. If I'm babbling,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Is the first time I've actually spoken
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: about it out loud.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm very grateful that you are speaking about it
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: and that you have, but so many women are going
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: through this idea to speak about it. Yeah, I mean,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I I don't feel that I am going through I
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: know that I have gone through it before when you
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: described it, yeah, and I've dealt with suicidal thoughts my
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: whole life and trauma responses. But you know, the specific
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: way that you're describing it is different than having just
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: like a bad night or feeling sad.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's the systemic, yeah, nervous system in.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: The world, your physical body reacting to those things.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I mean I was, you know, sort of five years
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: old the first time I realized that a grown man
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: could find me sexually attractive. So I've just been walking
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: through the world constantly terrified for thirty five years straight
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: and taking measures to get home safe and taking the
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Uber instead of walking home, and you know, still sometimes
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: in a cab being chatted up by the drive and
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: you know, or being sexually intimidated by a driver, all
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: these different things that have happened, you know, in like
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: a yellow mini cab in New York where you're like
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: locked in in the back. There are so many times
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that I'm made to feel unsafe constantly, Or if I'm
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: not made to feel unsafe, it's because I'm doing constant
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: death maths of like do I go down that alleyway
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: that will get me to work quicker, but there's no
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: women in that alleyway, Or do I go down this
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: road and like scanning and you don't realize how much
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: you're scanning all the time for danger, and it's just
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: perpetual death maths, and what that does to your nervous
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: system is not normal, and so many men can't really relate, Like, really,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it's only men in prison who can understand the nervous
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: system of being a woman anywhere because of the imminent
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: threat of rape and the imminent threat of assault everywhere
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: you go. It's the only way that I've been able
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: to explain to a man. It was like, what's your
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: biggest fear of going to jail? And it's always sexual assault.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And I'm always like, that's how women feel, and girls
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: feel and children feel all the fucking time. And it's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: so imperative that people start to understand this because women
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: are really given no grace.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: For how fucking stressed how we are and how on
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: edge we are.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: And then the entire quote unquote wellness community is built
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: upon making us spend more money, extraordinary amounts of money
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to look like we're not as fucking stressed as we are.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And it's like, maybe we should show people how stress
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: we are.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: That's a bit why I'm not like coming on with
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: like sunshine and bows everywhere all the time now, because
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I think people should know, but I've been
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: pushed to the fucking edge.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Wow, the fucking.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Edge I'm actually just hanging on with just one hand,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and I can't take this shit anymore, and I shouldn't
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: have to. And I'm so scared for all the younger girls.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: It terrifies me. It's why I don't want children. It's
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: because I can't. I'm too terrified to have children in
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: a world like this, where one goes missing every two
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and a half hours because of men, because of a
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: culture of men. And it's not just men who are
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: having an active desire to hurt you or who are you.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Know, out of can I want to assault you?
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: There is an entire business built on taking the lives
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and freedom and futures of women and children for other
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: men who can't even be bothered to go out and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: catch their own. It's unbelievably dark, and I can't believe it.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what I'm going through.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going through so much repressed rage that
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the only way to not like physically explode is to
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: shut myself off. And so I think that's kind of
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: what my body's doing. I'm still figuring it out, and
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I'm in therapy, like EMDR therapy, which is for PTSD,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: trying to work out what I can do with all
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of this rage because I'm so angry and women just
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: aren't angry enough. Well, I will tell you, because we
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: don't feel like we're allowed to be not I'm not worrying.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: We're not we're not allowed to be. I think that
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: you have done.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: In an incredible job of channeling the rage that you
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: had before for this happened. Because every time I hear
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: or see you talking about this subject or anything adjacent
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: to it, I think you're very articulate, and you've said
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: things I am inarticulate when it comes to this.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I'm actually I'm enraged all the time.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: And I've been told by people close to me, by
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: my therapist, by doctors, like you have to calm down, actually,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: because you are stressing yourself out, and I feel like
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: I am stressed out, Like I am angry about this.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: I am angry at men. I'm angry at the good men.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: I'm angry at all of it. I'm angry at the system.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I'm angry at women who uphold it. I'm angry at
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: things that I've done to uphold it. I want to
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: break the system down, and I can't stop talking about it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: And it's pouring out of me this rage about it,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: because I'm like, why is everyone not more angry, And
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: particularly when it comes to.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: While are we talking about it all? They why isn't it?
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: How did we.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: From the Epstein files, like how the prison rules?
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing that has blown my mind, Like
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: even in prison, pedophiles are the lowest, Like there's a
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: code amongst prisoners.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they have to be kept in solitary that.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: This is the lowest, and here we are all free
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: roaming the earth and like, so they're all pedophiles and
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: we're just okay with this. So there's a better system
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: in prison for handling misbehavior than there is out in
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: the world. And it's because the system is designed to
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: protect these people. There is a huge business behind it.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: To your point about men who may not may have
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: families and daughters of their own, who have no interest
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: in raping or assaulting anyone or or molesting anyone, but
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: are perfectly fine with participating in kidnap beings, participating in
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: selling humans and trafficking them, and to them, they're just
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: not they're not actually humans. And that was the part
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: of your sub sect that also stuck out to me,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: is that women are not looked at as humans. We
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: don't have hopes and dreams and still families and stories
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: and lives. We're just this piece of meat. We're just
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: aware walking around the earth with something that they either
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: want physically now in this moment, or something that they
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: can sell.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's exhausting and offensive, and I think that
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: we should stop being told to calm down. Weirdly I did.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I did a podcast last year where they were like,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: what's your biological age, And I was like, mine's going
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: to be mine's going to say that I'm legally dead,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Like it's going to say that I'm one hundred and
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: fifty because I've had such a stressful life and I've
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: not been very well and I've not ever known how
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: to look after myself like I've always just I've never
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: re ascended beyond a twelve year old boy in my
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: eating habits and like lifestyle habits and I don't sleep,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and you know, I was like, oh, it'll say that
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I'm one hundred and fifty. I'm one hundred and fifty
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: year old Chinese man, Like I don't know what to expect.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: And they said it was under the age of twenty,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and I was shocked, and then the doctor came in
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to explain it to me, and she was like, in
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: spite of all of your appalling habits, she said that
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: because you don't keep any of your emotions in, you
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: just let them out like all over the internet, you
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: are biologically stronger than a lot of other people. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it was a really amazing moment to prove that actually
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: letting your emotions and your rage out and your fury
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: out is much better for you. The people who don't,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: who are told by their doctors that it's stressing them out,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: are normally the ones who are going to get a
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: terrible autoimmune disease. And so I'm just trying to I
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: have no intention of holding in my rage. I'm just
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: trying to work out a way that I can get
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: it out without using a fucking sword, because I want
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: to buy a sword right now. I want to buy
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: like at all kinds of I want to become wolverine
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: where someone will plant a knife inside of my hands,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: like yeah, and I can, like I can ten knives, Like.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: That's how I feel right now.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't want to be violent. I
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: mean I do, Just to be very clear, I would
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: love to be. I'm very pro extremely extremely violent. I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: really like I I equivalent, I equivocate rape with taking
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: someone's life as far as I'm concerned, because you do like,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I never really got my life back. I've just been
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: surviving ever since. And that's not going to sound very
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: empowering to other people. And I think I am a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: pretty empowered woman. I think I'm a very free woman.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: But there's a part of me that got taken so
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: young that I'll never ever get back, and I'll never
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: know what the life, what life would have looked like
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: without that horrific, terrifying, terrorizing lens. To not have slept
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: since I was like for more than a few hours
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: a night, since I was five, It is really crazy.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And that was just was taken from me, just like that,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: because of someone else's urge. So I would like to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: find a way to get out the rage, and I
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: would like to encourage the rage and other women.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: We just have to find.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: A productive way to engage in some sort of collective
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: like organized rage, otherwise it's for nothing.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I feel well, I totally agree, and I think there
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: are a lot of things that we need to come
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: together on.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: I feel a little discouraged.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: That this is something we would need to come together
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: on because every woman I know has experienced some level
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: of this and we still are not unified in how
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: to prevent it. And because of that, I do feel
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: like similar things similar to race. Well, I think there's
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: a system, right, there's like there's a patriarchy, and there
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: are women who benefit from proximity to that, and so
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: tearing up, tearing apart an entire system that is upheld
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: by this you know house, this house of cards, would
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: mean lose them, losing things and access and privileges. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: when you're you know, there is like this, there's real
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: male centered women and they're the most dangerous to me
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: and in holding all this up, because if you go
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: to some of those women and say, hey, I've been
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: molested or I've been raped, or I'm dealing with this
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: or and and they are they are propping up these men,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: And that's a big hurdle I think, to actually coming
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: together as women and saying enough. But the other part
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: of it to me is that similar to race, Yeah,
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: men built this system, so men have to tear it
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: down like white people build the system. So why is
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: it black people's job to tear apart a system of
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: oppression that we didn't create. Men built the system and
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: men don't benefit. But not all men benefit from the system.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: And when you look at patriarchy, it does not benefit
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: men to today.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: But we can't get into whether or not it's fair
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: or not because the world just isn't fair.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: No, nothing is fair.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: No, But I I have come to the conclusion that
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: even the good men are not doing enough.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not doing enough. They're not doing fuck all,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: what are they doing? Where are they other.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Than saying that that there's you're that.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: You're on Instagram like game goals, you have to be,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, start fucking night Yeah, you have to
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: be help women get home safely at night.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Although predators will join the fucking night watch and then
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: use that as an excuse, but there's no interruption of
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: this culture.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: They endorse it via the people that they.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Follow and via the people the friends that they you know,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: they don't call in and call out like men are
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: afraid of other men just as much as we are,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: and they don't want to have that conversation. Our apex
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: predator is also their apex predator that they are killed
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and raped in higher numbers than we are by each other.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: So they're terrified.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And because we're not allowed to have this collective conversation
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of like, we are all terrified of men, that's the
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: main problem. And so a lot of my work is
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: not at men. It's kind of with men being like,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: aren't you sick of this shit too?
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Aren't you afraid of being afraid?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I did a post, you know, last year, just saying
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: that more men aren't murdered and raped by men than
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: women every year statistically, and I was like, men, this
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: is a safe space because you seem to never be
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: capable of creating your own safe spaces to have these conversations.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Allow me to create a safe space for you to
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: tell me what men did to you. The stories are
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: fucking harrowing, harrowing from when they were boys, what was
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: done to them by men, by priests, by teachers, by dads.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Men are struggling and terrified of men too, but they
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: don't feel as though they are safe to be able
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: to say that.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: And because they're fucking they can't organize.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: A piss up in a brewery to just get together
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and have these conversations and own this shit. They just
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: perpetuate cycles of abuse on each other and then on us,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and so this has to be a combined effort between
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: men and women. And I think that's a really difficult
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: thing to do. And we need men to get angry
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: with us, and they don't need to be defensive. They
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: need to realize that our threat is your threat, and
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: actually the reason you're afraid to defend us is because
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you're scared you might get killed.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: There are so many videos now of women being attacked
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: in the.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Street and their boyfriend just freezes or backs off, and
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: it's because he's afraid he's going to get killed. So
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I just we need to be able to find a
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: way to have this conversation together as a coalition against
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: this system. I I've been saying for a long time
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: that I don't believe that, and this gets mixed reviews
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and results, so you might, you know, not I might
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: not be very popular with you after saying this. But
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I believe that the ultimate goal of patriarchy isn't women.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: It's men.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: It's men with less power and less money who they
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: can send to war to die and to die for
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: rich men up at the top. Right, So I mean
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the men who go to war, or the men who
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: go down the mines, or who do incredibly dangerous labor
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: that women aren't expected to do, or for more powerful
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: men up top. And because men are so submissive to
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: other men, they're more likely to go and take those
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: orders and risk their lives and be used as a
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: dog's body for wealthy, older, more powerful men. And what
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: am I trying to say, Sorry, It's my first time
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: speaking in like three days, so what I'm trying to say, sorry,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: is that.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Men don't understand and that they.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Are the ultimate target of patriarchy, and they've been distracted
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: with oppressing us so that they think they are the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: top of the food chain, but they don't realize that
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: we're all at the fucking bottom.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: They're just slightly above us. But as soon as there's
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: a draft, it's not going to be women who get
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: sent it's going to be them. It's going to be
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: their teenage.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Boy bodies on the fucking line on the ground, and
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: they're not going to be looked after when they come back,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: if they even survive with PTSD in disabilities, there'll be
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: nowhere for them to go. They'll be sent to the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: streets or some sort of whatever. Concentration camps are being
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: built for homeless people who are mostly veterans, you know,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: and people with men with PTSD. So because they don't
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: understand this, because they don't want to feel like they
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: are a victim and that they are a target of patriarchy.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: It's just not fucking sinking in that we are in
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: this fight together against the wealthy and the powerful elites.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: At the top.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: And this has been the system from the start. Women
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: are being used as.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: A distraction for men to be like, oh, look, you
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: have it better than hers, so you don't realize that
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: actually life doesn't mean fuck all either. And the second
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: you are needed to put your body on the line,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: you will be called for and you will be abused.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And it's just imperative that we get this across to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: men that we are in an alliance with each other.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: We are in a coalition.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Women are Women are fighting bell hooks has been fighting
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: for the liberation of men for fucking time. Now women
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: feminism also fights for the liberation of men. We're fighting
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: for all.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Of us to be free from patriarchy.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: This is not about being for me, it's not about
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: being equal with men. It's about being free from patriarchy
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: with men. That's what I think. Does that make any sense?
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: It makes perfect sense. I have no notes.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, sometimes people get upset because women are like, no,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: patriarchy was just designed to oppress women.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: No, No, I feel that way.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Women are more oppressed than men within the patriarchy. But
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: that doesn't mean. That's why I said earlier. They don't
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: realize that patriarchy harms them as well. And because they
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: have some slight proximity this much to the power, it
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: delusions them into thinking that this is a system that
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: benefits me. So I'm going to continue to uphold it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: But to your point, and you're seeing it more now,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: it is they're doing a really terrible job of not
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: making it so obvious that everyone is disposable, but talking
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: about bringing the draft back, the conversations that we're having
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: in this country at least about the military going completely
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: not diverse, which, like I've jokingly said from the beginning,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: make the military all white men.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Go get them stop coming to the hood and recruiting people.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Please make this an all white military and take their
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: children off to some pointless war and see how that
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: goes for you. Like, this is what they're trying to do.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: They're not trying to hide any of this anymore. We
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: have just reached a point, I think, in our human
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: existence where we have access to more information than we've
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: ever had, and because of that, it's completely overwhelmed our
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: nervous systems, our brains, and we can only pick and
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: choose to think about one thing at a time for
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: a very short amount of time. So people can only
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: understand consequences anymore. We're in a post truth society, so
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: facts are irrelevant, and so the only thing that people
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: truly understand is consequences. When you can't be bothered with facts,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: the only thing that actually affects you is something that
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: you feel, something that actually physically happens to you, and
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: you know that what the cause of it was. And
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: so yeah, I don't disagree with you at all. I
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: think that the whole gender war is designed.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I think it to construct. I have a conspiracy theory
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: to build the.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Bus distract it from it. What is it? I love
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: it now.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: My conspiracy theory that I'm building is that I believe
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: that the entire me learniness epidemic was engineered from op
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: top by the tech platforms with the aim of making
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: men absolutely in tole to women, making them worse in
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: bed with porn, like they've never been worse in bed.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: They're so bad in bed. I'm hearing extraordinary.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Complaints from my female friends at an age, at a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: big age where where men should know about. It's insane.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's the sane. They need sort of apple maps to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the glitterists. Now it's out of control choke women, but
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: choking turning a woman's sexual pleasure into like making that irrelevant,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: making it all about Yeah, it just all feels like
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: very assault adjacent. And you look at the you know,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: the websites and stuff, and it's it's a lot of
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: really dark, dangerous, unloving, unromantic, unsexy stuff.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Is not is that?
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Like, where's the nat King cole singing? And when we kiss?
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: That isn't thunder that you're hearing? It's my my heart
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and its applause? Like where are those men?
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: Give us no yearning?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Give us back those men like I want them, like
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: they were good in bed.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: We weren't getting the same complaints.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: I don't know what the f was.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: An idea that you needed to you needed to please
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: women or in order to be.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: In alpha man one hundred percent you were considered a
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: good guy. Okay, sorry, so worse in bed, worse on dates,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: worse in their general behavior, like really really becoming deeply
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: unattractive and pathetic, lacking gallantry, lacking chivalry, and then women
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: then become turned off by men. Women start to push
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: men away. Therefore men no longer have a woman and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: a family and a life to live for. Therefore it's
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: easier to convince them to go and die for their country.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: It is not just America that is building a draft.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It is also Germany who said that they want to,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: you know, grow their army by two hundred thousand people
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: in the next couple of years. Otherwise they're going to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: bring in conscription. Frances talking about this, England is talking
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: about this.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: It is happening.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Worldwide, the discussion about conscripting specific men into armies with
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: or without their consent. Right, look at what happened in Ukraine.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: They extended the age to something like sixty. You're not
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: allowed to leave the country if you're under sixty when
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: it's at war, like you are middle aged and your
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: body is not considered prescious.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: It's like you are going to be there as a
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: human shield. For your government. And so that's what I
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: think is happening.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I think this has been a long running, engineered like
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the way it's happening also orchestrated all around the world,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: everyone growing their armies in the last couple of years,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: before Iran, before any of this, the other shit's and
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: breaking out.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: What are they preparing for?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: And we're told on maybe it's the war that's happening
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: in the Middle East, or maybe it's the war that's
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: going to happen with Russia.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Something is happening.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: There is something brewing or at a very organized elite level,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and you've got men becoming lonelier and lonelier and then
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: becoming more and more hostile, and then women are becoming
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: hostile back. And you've got the Korean four B movement
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: where women are now refusing to date men or have
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: babies anymore, and they're moving in together into homes which
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: sound fucking amazing. No, And so I do believe that
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: this is like it's happening in too much of like
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: a perfectly it's almost happening like the big fucking Bang,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: where you're like, how is all of this happening? At
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the same time, need to understand they are taking away
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: your reason to live so that you'll be willing to die.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Because what does a lonely man want.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: He wants some camaraderie, he want some purpose, he wants
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: something to live for. It's like the Army adverts make
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it look like fucking Disneyland. It's like brotherhood and purpose
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: and meaning and worthiness and like discipline and community. And
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: so the more that that gets taken away from them,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the more appealing that's going to be, and the less
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: they're going to feel oppressed by it. And also, women,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: you know, are at the forefront normally of ending wars
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: because we're the ones calling back for our husbands and
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: our sons and our brothers. You know, we're the ones
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: fighting and resisting. We lead most resistant movements. We are
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the real protectors of society. We are the ones who
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: really riot, We're the ones who really protest. So if
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: women are fucking sick of men, we're not going to
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: lift a finger to stop the draft. I know women
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: are literally like, oh my god, take them, let them go.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: But what's going to happen is that those boys and
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: those men are going to go and terrorize the women
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: in other countries. So we have to do something about this.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: We have to stop this from happening. It's insane that
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: this many boys and men are going to go off
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and just fucking die for a bunch of old rich
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: men up top. We don't want this for them, and
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: so I'm urging men to understand that.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Save your own life and get a pull back.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: From this fucking red pill manisphere culture, because you're going
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: to die. You're going to be sent off to die.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: This shit is getting very real. This is official. This
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is no longer even conspiracy. These drafts and these conscriptions
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: are building at a government level to the point where
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: it's been released into the media. So if men don't
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: get on side and pull back from patriarchy and don't
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: align with women and start to learn what we like
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and what we need in order for them to be
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: able to have the great privilege of partnering up with us,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: which they won't like. And no one not all perfect,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: but for fox sake, calm down for a second, bigger picture,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: they're going to be stripped of their safety and their lives.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're spitten to tell you said you haven't talked
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: in three days.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: No, you came in hot.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Sorry, oh not sorry, It's amazing. This is everything I
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: dreamed of when I was like, we're having to reel on.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: I just can't wait to talk.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: About conspiracy theory about I love it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: I You're absolutely right.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I want to team up with men like I'm looking
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: for men to join my fucking army against the patriarchy.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm dressed like this.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: I was about to say, you already have your like,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: you know, your revolutionary leader hot suit on.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I do feel I feel gay Gavara, isn't it very
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: I do feel in a lot of ways that men are.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Brought up to be this way. And you said something,
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: you said something. I'm not going to say this particularly
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: as you did again, so I'm going to quote.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: You little bits. Please correct me.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: But basically, that little boys are they're they're The idea
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: that little boys are not gentle and sweet and empathetic
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: and kind and want love and attention in the same
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: way that little girls do. Is a lie that starts
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: at such a young age that it breaks them. It
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: breaks boys and girls off to for boys to be
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: conditioned into these people that we are describing, And it's
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: that is another thing that a lot of these men
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: hate about women is that we do have the ability
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: to cry, We do have the ability to emote, We
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: have the ability to be affectionate with our friends and
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: not be judged.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: We have the ability to.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Build community, build communities and live together. And nobody, you know,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: realistically calls us lesbians, you know, like, it's not that
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: that is at all offensive, but like women living together,
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: that does not mean that whereas a bunch of men
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: are immediately going to get ridiculed by other men for
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: having that kind of community.
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: And I feel that that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Is a big part of what breaks men at such
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: a young age is that idea that they are not
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: allowed to have access to their emotions. And I do
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: think that some young men are publicly talking about that
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: and pushing back on that, but it's not enough.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: No, Yeah, there are some wonderful young men who are
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: doing great work in this space because I think gen
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: z A being able to watch how much we've fucked
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: everything up and are going, Okay, we can see the matrix,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: but we brutalize.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Boys from as soon as they can understand.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: We brutalize and terrorize them on mass specifically, especially in
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the West.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I would say.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where you know, we don't allow them to cry.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Tears have cortusil, the stress hormone in them. So if
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: you don't let a boy let that out, then he's
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: going to have all that cort soul coursing through a system.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: It's going to make him destructive, and then he's going
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: to get punished for being destructive. He is going to
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: be punished for every normal emotion he has because boys
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: are not raised to be men.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: They're raised just not to be girls. And so that
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: is the main.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Practice of patriarchy, is just to tell you what not
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: to be, never given a true role model. And you know,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: back in the day there were more role models in society,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: but we don't really have that. We've just got society
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: being like, don't be a woman, don't seem gay, don't
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: seem feminine in any way.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: We also force them.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Into a schooling system, which isn't helpful for their brains.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: That girls' brains developed much faster than boys. We are
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: more academically and intellectually superior from a young younger age
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: than boys, which is why we outperform them in most
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: academia all the way through. But specifically girls can I
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: think read and write much younger, more naturally, and boys
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: actually are not a their brains haven't developed yet to
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: be able to do that. So instead of taking them
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: outside into you know, I don't know, the woods to
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: learn how to harness their energy and build things and
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: create things and do things that are to the strengths
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: of their brains, they're forced into a system that actually
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: is catered towards our academic capability. So then they develop
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: low self esteem because of that at a young younger age. Obviously,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: some people will buck the system and some boys will
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: be you know, neurodivergent or academically brilliant. I'm not saying
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: it's not possible, but en mass, boys develop much slower
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: than girls. They have a lower pain tolerance, they have
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: certain so many weaknesses that we don't have, and they
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: are not brought up in a world that caters to that.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: And because I think there is something much more inherently
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: submissive about males, and I think this exists across all species,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: that they are more likely to be submissive and more
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: likely to want an instruction and follow an instruction. They
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: just don't want to get it from their wife. They
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: want it from another man. But they want to be
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: told what to do.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Where am I going with this? Sorry?
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: Little boys?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, so we and then we feed them, We indoctrinate them.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: We drench them in misogynists culture and music and lyrics
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: and videos and pornography. And because there is something inherently
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: because submissive in them, they're going to do what they
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: think all the other boys are doing. So they're going
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: to immerse themselves in that. They are groomed and preyed
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: upon by patriarchy from as soon as they can understand,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: just like we are, in just very different ways, and
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: it dehumanizes them, and then it teaches them to dehumanize us.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Once patriarchy has successfully dehumanized a boy, then it's easy
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: for a boy to go and dehumanize everyone else, either
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: because of their sexuality or their gender, or their race
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But they are targeted and severed from their
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: real selves and their real emotion, and they're they're not
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: allowed to foster a real, true identity in case it
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: might seem in any way feminine, because they're terrorized out
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: of femininity. Where's femininity is incredibly strong and rebellious. And
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I've often said that the most powerful men I've ever
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: met who buck the system, who were brave, who stand
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: up for women, who stand up for each each other,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: who are pillars of their community.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Are always the ones most in touch with their feminine side.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: They're the men who aren't afraid to cry, the men
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: who aren't afraid to hug each other to show emotion.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Those are always the true leaders.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: To me, that is true masculinity to me, not masculinity
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: even that's that is a fully realized person, because I'm
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: quite masculine, and a lot of my male friends are
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: very heterosexual, but they're very in touch with their feminine side.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: And they are rebels. Like they're true rebels. There's nothing
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: more obedient than being macho, just following all the rules off.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to look like this, and I'm supposed to
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: talk like this, and I'm supposed to act like this,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm supposed to treat a woman like this. So
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: these are all the rules t tick and I'm supposed
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: to date a woman who looks like this, and then
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: the other boys will be proud of me, and then
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Daddy will be proud of me. Whereas feminine men.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Don't give a fuck.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: They're doing what they want, They're reading what they want.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: They're enjoying art, they're making art, they're making things. They're incredible.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: You and I both share a man in common. He'll
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: be listening to this episode right now because he loves
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: listening to women and what they think, and he is
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: incredibly in touch with his femin side. He's a fucking man, yes,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: in every sense of word. And so I look up
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: to and look for that in men, and I think
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that it's so hilariously ironic and boring to categorize femininity
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: as any kind of weakness when everything about it is
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: so unbelievably strong and resilient.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: Well, because it's dangerous. It's dangerous to be in an individual, in.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: A system, and that's why they always try to oppress it,
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: and they try to roll any kind of progress back
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: and demonize progress, and they use it in a way
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: that stirs people's emotions. Someone is stealing our country. Women
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: are tear tearing apart the family. They're these big, loaded
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: words that scare people because it feels like it's out
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: of the norm, and it is out of the norm,
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: but not because not because it's dangerous to society, not
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: because it's dangerous to the.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: You know what is dangerous to society femininity because they.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: In a positive way for us, but for them it's negative.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Of course, But those up top know that actually masculinity
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: is far more submissive and femininity is far more rebellious, right,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: so they know that femininity is going to lead to
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: boys and girls bucking the system and going, actually, no,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: this doesn't actually make any fucking sense, and equality and
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: egalitarianism makes sense. A matriarchy doesn't mean women just in charge.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: A matriarchy means egalitarianism with women being able.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: To, i think, help nurture.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: The community and be in certain leadership positions, but also
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: putting men who are qualified in those leadership positions, just
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: not fucking morons who just have a penis and that's
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: their entire qualification, and that, I think is a healthier
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: society for everyone because it's egalitarian. It's so funny to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: me how much feminism has been branded as this weakness
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: because they know that we are. Again, like, if you
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: look at the ice protests, it's women at the front
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: of those ice protests. It's unarmed, small women confronting massive,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: armed men with guns.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. Femininity is fucking terrifying, which.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Is why they've severed men as far away from it
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: as possible, just in time for all these drafts around
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: the world, because.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: They don't want men to fight back. They don't want
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: men to rebel.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: They want men to have no woman to turn to
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: who will go, hey, you don't have to do this.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Women are so dangerous. Grown women are considered so dangerous.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: So again, they've only encouraged men to stick around women
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: whose frontal lobes aren't fully formed, you know, a twenty
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: five year old, twenty six year olds or younger, even
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: because that woman won't know how to liberate that man.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Older women not only liberate women, we liberate men.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: That's why we have to be.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Removed from society and distracted with botox and weight loss
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: drugs and performing you know, youthful femininity for the rest
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: of our fucking lives. We're not supposed to lean into
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: our adulthood because we might dare to say to men, what.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Fuck you doing? You know it seem very happy.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: If men seemed happy right now after all these thousands
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: of years of patriarchy, I could maybe go this seems
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: like it's going well for someone.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: But they're fucking miserable. They're killing.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: So upset like, they're so violent, they're so self destructive
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: that diction rates, the homelessness rates.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: It's all men. So it's not working for you. Come
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: with us, Come with us, We'll show you a better way.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Their main fear is the same fear that white people
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: have about black people, right, is that if we allow
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: black people into positions of power, they might exact revenge.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Men are terrified of what.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Would happen if women were in power, in case we
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: were to treat them the way they treated us.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: But for human history or Homo sapien history.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: We have it was a matriarchy, or at least it
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: wasn't a patriarchy. Patriarchy is so modern, it's it's less
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: than ten percent of human history.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: This is modern.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: It was an experiment or you tried, You tried, and
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: you gave it your best fucking shot. And it has
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: led to global collapse of the environment, of the earth,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: of humanity, of people locked in cages, you know, adults,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: humans locking other humans in cages, a punitive, horrifying, sad
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: system full of suicide, people taking their own lives, people
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: fighting to be able to afford resources that just grow
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: from the earth. We have to pay for clean water,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: we have to pay for land. Who got to own
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: all of those things? Why are these things earned? What
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the fuck is this system? It's bullshit. It's a bullshit system.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Like men are living in a bullshit world where they
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: are killing themselves to escape it.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: So let's try something else together.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: I would follow you to war. Thank you.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I've been looking up some swords, so we have to
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: find you a good sword.
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: I'll be like, you're lit said it. I haven't. I haven't.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: I haven't gotten it down to the science yet that
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: you have. It's it is so true, and it's it's
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: very heartbreaking for me honestly listening to you, because you
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: are so right, but I have just lost so much hope.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: Like that's what they want.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: They want you to lose, and they want you to
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: hate men so much that you're like fuck these men
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: to them.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: And I understand.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: I hate the system.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: I hate having conversations with them about it at large.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: I hate the comparing of the experiences and and honestly,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: the main reason why is because while we are both suffering,
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: what we started talking about is is the thing that
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: if they don't understand it, if they haven't experienced in
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: the way that so many men have experienced sexual assault
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: or being molested or being.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Raped, being abused.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: If they haven't experienced it, or haven't talked to another
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: man about their experience, then they don't.
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: Well, they may fear their lives being in danger.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: That is a common experience that they can relate to,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: but they cannot relate to the fear of being sex trafficked,
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: or being assaulted, or being raped or being.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: Sexualized in the workplace to the point where you cannot.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Tell show their numbers of being like, you know, experiencing
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: more violence than women come from them taking zero precautions
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: not to experience violence. Can you imagine if women didn't
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: take all the precautions that we take, how much more
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: violence we would see. If already half of us have
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: been assaulted. And that's when we take the cab home,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: we have the keys, our phone. No, we're not listening
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: to our headphones. We're triple locking the doors. We're not
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: going for the run at night or the walk at
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: night when we feel stressed out, like the amount of
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: precautions women take around their safety en mass, and then
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: still half of us are being assaulted.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Billions of women and girls have been assaulted. What the
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: fuck would those numbers be?
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: So men are out there, there's just fucking raw dogging life,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and then they're experiencing that kind of about it.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you've never even thought about the things that
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I at this point naturally think about every day.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: And then they're like, bitches are crazy, and it's like
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: bitches have been driven crazy?
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: We are. I'm a very crazy person. I do not.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: I'm very, very very crazy in the target crazy.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I'm very crazy in what way I find crazy? Enraged?
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: I am not.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: I was meant to be a different person than I am,
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: Like the trauma, the things that I've been through and experienced.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Cage like as in his performance, is not the man
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: please see me?
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Which perform all of them? Literally?
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: That's right? Uh?
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: I I just really like, I just think a woman
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: really needs to earn it with me to call herself crazy.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So what do you mean by crazy?
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't want to. I don't want
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: to implicate myself.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: I I have very very dark thoughts a lot.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: I am very angry a lot.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Is that crazy or is that a normal reaction to
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: this society?
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I think the propriate reaction I think the.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Weirdos are the ones who are just fine, Like they are.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Not wrong, You're not wrong, very crazy, and I'm okay
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: with that though. I'm I'm perfectly okay with people thinking
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: that I'm crazy, with people thinking that I'm angry.
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: I get angry a lot. I am angry. I am angry.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I want to fight you now. No, I am angry. No,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I know you're angry. You're not allowed to call yourself crazy,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: like rightfully indignant, furious, call yourself furious.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Stop calling yourself crazy.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Women have got to stop calling themselves crazy for having
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: a very valid reaction to this world. I object, I
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: completely object to you using that word. Like you really
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: have to be like certifiable to be able to call
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: yourself crazy. No, I'm sorry, I'm talking about shitting like
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: in the street, which I once did, and that's because
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Crazy that year. Okay, I will did that all right?
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: It was a twenty fifteen, was really, no, not twenty fifteen,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: So twenty twelve was a rough time for some of us, Okay,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: But my point being that you really have to be legitimately,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: women call themselves and women are called crazy, and when
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: we call ourselves crazy, we are giving license to men
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: to call us crazy for our valid reactions to a
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: society that they have built and then broken.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: So you are not allowed to use that word anymore.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I don't want to hear it.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: It's really hard.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Indignant, Yes, you are right righteously indignant, and you're pissed.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: We're pissed. You're not You're not crazy.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: It's it's crazy to be okay with this like that.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: When I look at these women who are just you know,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: so like just gobbling up just fucking patriarchy, I just
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: that's the clip, isn't it great?
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: But when I see those em and.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm looking at someone who's disassociated, Like, I'm like,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: you're dissociated. You are you are dissociated and you are deluliu.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And that's a copy mechanism. And actually I've been there
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: before where I'm like, oh god, it would just be
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: easier just to just give in, just give in to it,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: or just stop fighting it, But that always ends up
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: in some sort of either asylum or medical you know, intervention, yeah,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: or drug intervention. I just I look at these women
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: in there, like just a thousand yards yard stare, and
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: they're like.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: They're like these quiet and voices that they use, and.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: It's like this performance of femininity. No cultural, ancient tribe
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: had this performance of femininity like women will fucking warriors.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: But we've been so severed from those ideas like that, I.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Think, but you promise not to you. I can't do
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: shit in the streets.
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, that's what I have to do.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: You're allowed to do Yeah, all right, I'm not there yet,
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: So I think righteously indignant is much fancier term for it.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I like it.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: I am angry, though, yes, and I have a right
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: to be angry, and I won't apologize for that. And
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: I do think that angry also gets associated with crazy
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: and that I'm like.
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: This is this bitter woman. I'm not bitter.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: Bitter would mean I think there is no redemption at all,
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: Like there's nothing to be done here.
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: Let's pack it up.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go live on a farm and not
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: talk to anybody anymore, which does kind of sound lovely.
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: But I'm not there yet.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: I still have a little revolutionary in me, and I'm
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: still willing to fight certain fights. I'm taking a break
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: from all the fights, but I do align with so
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: much of what you said, and it's because I do
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: have wonderful men in my life, and I love men,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: and I believe in them and we need them. But
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: what I won't do right now because similar to you,
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: I am fiercely, violently serious about protecting myself first and
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: foremost above everything and anything else that's going on in
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: life in this world. My safety physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: is my number one priority, and I won't apologize for
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: it right now.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: When I feel like I'm past that. If I get
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: past that and I can have.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: The vulnerability to have those non visceral conversations about things,
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: then maybe I'll get to that point. But I feel
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: like and now I'm losing my share of thought as.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Well, Kilie. I'm looking at a traumatized woman.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: I am traumatized, and I'm angry, and I don't I
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: don't want that to be confused with bitter. If I
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: was bitter, I wouldn't be talking about it. I would
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: just be like, fuck everybody, I have nothing else, I
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: have nothing else to contribute. I'm angry because I think
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: we can be better, and I feel this sort of
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: shift happening in the world, this almost like ancestral energy
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: of like everyone is fed up with this bullshit.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: We can't all put our finger.
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: On exactly what it is we want to do to
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: fix it or how we can fix it, but we
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: all know, even the ones who are in the delusion,
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: even the ones who are marching along inside. No, this
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: isn't right. This isn't how humans were supposed to live.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: This isn't how things are supposed to be.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: We're not all supposed to be this medication.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: We're not supposed to be this medicated. We're not supposed
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: to be this simulated. We're not supposed to know all
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: the horrible things that are happening all over the world,
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: all the time, every fucking day.
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: None of this is supposed to be going on.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: And we probably are too far to reverse it from
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: a technology standpoint, but we're not too far to reverse
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: it in that we can put our foot down and
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: say enough and pull back from the edge of societal collapse.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: So the challenge will be bringing men on side because
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: they are so afraid to buck the system, because they're
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: so submissive and subservient.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: To the system.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: That will be that will be the hard The challenge
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: will be asking men, are you brave enough to stand
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: with us. Are you man enough to step away from
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: a system that does not consider your life worth anything?
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Because we do like the manosphere.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Teale men, the only way that you can have power
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: in your life is to disempower all the people around
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: you by force.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Whereas women are going.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: I believe in you, I know you're capable of more,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: men are going, There's no way you can ascend on
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: your own. You just have to hold these bitches down underwater.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Whereas we are saying no, I believe in you, I
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: know you're capable of so much more. Look at how
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: much women have grown in the last forty years. Like
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: we didn't even have our own bank accounts in the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: late seventies, and now here we are like a viable threat,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: a viable threat who are needing to be married off
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: as children and being need to have all of our
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: rights and our bodily autonomy stripped away because with so
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: much of a fucking threat, If we can become a
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: threat like that in fifty years or less, imagine what
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: you could do if you just went to fucking therapy.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Imagine what you could do, Like, imagine what you're capable of.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I see more potential in you. The manosphere is telling
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: men that this is it. You're at the ceiling. This
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: is all you're ever be capable of. You're never going
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: to be able to be emotionally intelligent. So just like
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: take a strip away a woman's access to being able
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: to grow her own intuition and her own like the
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: biggest war is on our nervous systems. Right, World War
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: three isn't coming. World War three has been here.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: It's a war.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: The battleground is not just going to be a traditional
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: field of men running at each other. The war is
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: on our individual nervous systems. And the biggest fear is
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: female intuition because.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: It's incredibly powerful. It's how we can see the truth.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: That's how we can lead the way. It's not witchy,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: it's just human instinct. It's not witchy.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: When animals sense the tsunami coming before the humans did
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: and made their way to the top of the mountain,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: that's intuition, and women in particular have very very strong intuition.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: So there is a war on our female intuition by
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: making us distracted with never aging, biting gravity, never gaining weight,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: never growing old, and never having full realization of who
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: we are, never being aggressive, never being honest, like stunting
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: all of our making all of ourselves smaller in every way.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: That is all to make us.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Distracted from our fantastic intuition. A chance we offer that
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: intuition to men, and then they might also set themselves free.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: So are men brave enough to be free? Is the question?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: I hope?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: So I think so, And my door is open to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: some of them, to.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Some of them, peace' for it?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: Yes, how are you.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: Or are you? Is this even a priority for you
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: right now? Like finding joy or of finding peace?
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: I'm having a nervous breakdown. Joy, What are you talking about? Yes,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not muffins, muffins, chocolate muffins early.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: In the morning, dogs and my wonderful boyfriend and my
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: wonderful friends.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: And that's where I find piece. That's where I've always
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: found peace.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: But I can't really access it right now because I've
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: been so terrorized and traumatized by men that I feel
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: like I'm.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Just floating in space.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not suicidal but anymore, but because now I understand
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: what's going on. But I think so many people who
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: are suicidal are actually just dealing with dissociation. And I
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: think dissociation is the goal for everyone. I think that
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: the people who own the tech platforms want us all
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: to feel dissociated all of the time so that there
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: won't be a life or a planet to fight for
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: because we already feel so.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: Detached from it.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: And that's my biggest fear, and that's what the point of.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: My essay was was to urge everyone to come back
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: to this earth. Do not let them disassociate you, because
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: then there's nothing to fight for. If you don't feel
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: like this life is yours, you don't feel like this
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: planet is yours, this is ours, We're not. Life is
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: not supposed to be this test and this grueling punishment
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: for a blissful after life that may never come. This
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: life is supposed to be full of pleasure and cake
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: and orgasms and animals and joy and sunshine. We're all
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: walking around with vitamin D deficiencies because we're inside in offices,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: hustling ourselves to death for a system that doesn't give
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: a fucking shit about us. It's really really pivotal that
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: we start to re examine that it's not normal for
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: us to all feel this detached and associated, like even
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: botox is a way to make it normalize for women
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: to no longer emote. You know, it's a new form
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: of prison. That's why I don't ever want to participate
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: in it, because I'm like, I want to be able
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: to move by face. I want to show when I'm
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: fucking pissed off and confused and angry. I want to
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: show when I'm happy and when I'm laughing, and I
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: don't want it to pull on my skin. I just
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: want to be fucking free. I want to be free
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: of these shackles of dissociation. And when you have a
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: lot of things that freeze your your face, it sends,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: it holds signals to your brain for empathy, for emotion.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: So we are severing women's capacity for our empathy, not
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: just for others, but also for ourselves.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: That what the fuck is going on? What is happening?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: This is all it's again it's I know, a sound
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: conspiratorial again, but like this is organized, Like the amount
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: of overwhelm of the information that we're fed all of
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the time, Like the amount that we are targeted in
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: every single way to feel stressed and afraid all of
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: the time. The news when I was growing up used
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: to be a bit of bad news a bit of
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: good news. Now it's just bad news, and it's heightened
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: worse news, like it's about everywhere all in the world,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: where I'm totally powerless to even intervene or do anything
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, you know, it's just we're rotting from
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: the inside. This is not what life was supposed to be.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad that I was alive in the nineties,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: so I knew what was possible for us. We weren't
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: attached to these fucking devices, these addictive little devices.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: We were free.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: We weren't surveiled all of the time. We didn't surveil
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: each other, we didn't police each other the way that
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: we do. We didn't identify each other by our politics.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: This is just fucking It's a bullshit way to live.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: This is not normal.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: There is nothing wrong with you. None of you are crazy.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: You are being preyed upon, and you need to set
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: yourself free. And that's what I'm now in the process
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: of doing. But I'm so sad that I had to
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: like completely break to get here. But I will be
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: making a concerted effort to fall back in love with
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: my life and fall back in love with the world,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and fall back in love with people. I'm horrified by
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: what I've been let into and what others around me
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: are and that's why I'm trying to the alarm.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry that you are going through this. It's
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't feel like I've totally gone to
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: the space that you are in or were in, but
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: I related so much to the feeling, and I feel
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: the creeping like monster of disassociating, like just here all
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: the time, because I know, I feel like it would
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: just be so easy to just like tap out, fade in,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: and just like be like, fuck all this. I've been
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: through enough and I don't want to do it anymore.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: But but it's what leads to the complacency that allowed
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: us all to hear about the Epstein files and do nothing.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yes it's all by design, yes yes, And.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: It's because you also feel like there is nothing you
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: can do, but there there are things that you can do.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: And similar to you, I was born in eighty seven.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: I know the world without the Internet. I know what
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: it's like to be a part of a society where
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: you are not constantly being fed all of these things,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: and you make decisions and you go outside and dig
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: in dirt, and you go to your neighbor's house and
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: then you come home. Like the experiences that now are
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: just beyond people's comprehensions to even do. The more that
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: you learn, the more terrified parents are not even listening
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: to doctors anymore because they have all this information.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: Like it just never ends.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: There's always like a new layer of things that you're
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: supposed to do or not do. And yeah, I agree,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: this is not how we were supposed to live.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: It's very hopeful.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: I feel very optimistic, which is unbelievable, but I do.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: I feel optimistic that we can change things. I think
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: things are going to get much worse before they get better.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: But if we don't make an effort to come back
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: into our bodies, we're not going to recognize how violent
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: this all is and we're not going to do anything
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: about it. I'm not asking people to take to the
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: streets and burn shit down.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: You don't have to.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: It's actually in action that works. It's tapping out of
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: the economy. It's tapping out of the system. It's no
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: longer funding and feeding the system. It's things that are
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: as simple as that Protests don't really work in the
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: same way that actually financial protests and financial strikes and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: blocking and divesting and sanctioning, like those are the things
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: that work.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: You can starve these billionaires. They're just a bunch of
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: like weak men.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: There's like a hundred of them, there's billions of us.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: But we fund them and feed them every day. It's
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: not this daunting task everyone's been made to feel like, Oh,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: revolution looks like taking to the streets and holding a big,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: heavy banner and risking your life and being shot out
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: with rubber bullets and gas. They don't give a shit
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: about uncivil unrest. They don't give a shit that you're
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: not happy with them. Showing them on your sign isn't
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: going to really do as much for you as actually
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: just strangle them, like not physically starve them. Starve the
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: people that you don't endorse, whether that's an influencer who's
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: putting out toxic you know, messaging to young girls whoever
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: you don't like. Just divest, that's that's it's it's so
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: sad that that's actually the strongest way to change the world,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: but it is because.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: But I mean, the world has changed.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: Double unrest was the worst thing that could possibly happen
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: to a leader because they were going to bust down
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: those castle walls and they were going to kill behead someone.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: We're not going to do that now.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: No, I just don't believe in.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I've just stopped giving my money or energy anywhere that
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: I don't see feeds me or feeds the world.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: And you shouldn't, No one should.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: It's we just have to start talking to each other again.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: We have to start being around each other again. We
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: have to start remembering who we are, you know, I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: remember as you know, and especially like the Western way
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: of men is so sad. You know, there's this Katla
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: Moran talks about the fact that in the third women
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: are always preparing for their third chapter. We're always cultivating
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: really strong friendships with each other, planning on our commune,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: you know, planning where we're going to be when our
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: husbands finally die because they.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Never went and got that lump check that we begged
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: them to.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Like, we're always like fostering our strongest sisterhoods, and men
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: just sort of atrophy and they start to let their
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: friendships fall away and they get immersed in family life
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: and then they just decide, well, I'll just become friends
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: with the husband whoever my wife has become friends with
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: and they're strong, lifelong bonds all by the wayside, and
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: they just sort of slowly but surely give up.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: And that's not the case in all cultures.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: My boyfriend and I were walking through like a very
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: kind of Middle East populated area of London, like I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: think Knightsbridge right where it's all like you walk around
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: and it's like it's very very Arab and there's lots
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: of petisseries because they don't drink so.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: They eat cake late, which is fucking adorable.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: And you've just got loads of men sitting together facing
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: each other, because men in the West prefer to do
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: things that where they don't have to look each other
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: in the eye. They do things tasks, fishing, sports, they
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: like to do things next to each other, but not
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: looking directly each other, not with intimacy.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: That is not classic of all men.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Because in the Middle East the men are like hugging,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: fucking giving each other like a kiss, like making fun
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: of each other, like looking each other down in the eye,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: eating cake together, which is considered very.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Feminine in the West.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: And you've got this real sense of brotherhood going on there.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: Same in Italy, like the men are sucking all over
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: each other. They don't have a male alone lin in
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Italy like that I've heard of anyway.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: You say, Italy has got no problems, and they've still
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: got fucking terrible Yeah, rape academy is there as well.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: You know, like, let's not even get into that.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: But Jesus Christ will both explode, will come you go
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: by swords immediately.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: But no, But I'm just saying that it doesn't have
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: to be the way.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: The manosphere is telling men, this is the way, and
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: this is how you were born, and this is what's natural.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Nothing that's natural has to be upheld by violence.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's more to your life. There's more to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: your life than impressing people that don't know.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why can't men have holidays? Like why can't men
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: be encouraged to spend time with their family and their kids.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: They're just supposed to have a wife who has no
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: job so that she's got no freedom to leave you
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: if you piss her off. But then that means you
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: have to work for an entire income for an entire family.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: So you work until you drop.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Dead at fifty from a fucking heart attack. You have
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: no memories on your deathbed of great times with your
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: friends or with your loved ones, or the amount of
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: sex you probably should have had in your life. And
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: it's just been lots of wanking alone on a computer,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: watching like a teenager get like choked out, and you're like,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: what is this life? This is not the life that
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: they used to write songs about. This isn't what al
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: Green wanted for us, you know.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: This isn't what he wanted.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: This isn't what Stevie told us life was supposed to be.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: Like those were the real men.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they they had a better plan, you know, for humanity.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: Like it's so sad.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: The expectation is just like work and you wank, and
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: you work and you wank and then you.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: Die and then that's it.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: And you drove a nice sports car between the working
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: and the wanking like that is.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: There's got to be more to life for men than
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: that they have. It's so fun here. It smells good, Yeah.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: It always smells good. We always have nice candles. Everything
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: is pink.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: It's comfortable, you know.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: It's wonderful that we have real conversations.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we only we laugh when we judge each other.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it will be nice to you like God, the
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: way that women love men who are good men.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: It's too much. It's actually too much. It's near worship
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: a man who can make a woman. Like the fact
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: that they've.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: Managed to convince men that you shouldn't learn how to
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: make a woman come, you learn how to make a
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: woman come. Like all that the MANUSCT should be teaching
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: is how to make a woman come.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: Your name will become legend, it will travel far and wide.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it will like this, we will recommend you to
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: other people. If we're no longer with you, we will
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: be like, oh yeah, girl.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Like they've been led astray from everything good, all of
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: the good advice just into like nothing but being like.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we we do share information.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: It's the whole thing just feels very much so like
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: you're just living to impress other men.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: Well they are, yeah.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: They are.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: And it's and then it's sad to do that get
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: a reaction from them as well, that is very negative.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: But it's just it's just the truth of it, because
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: you're not trying to impress women. No, because we've told
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: you what impresses us, So they ask for our spaces.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: They don't listen to these conversations they're listening. They should
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: only be listening. They should like it's like, where is
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: your spy instinct?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: When I want advice about men, I don't ask other women.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: I ask the men that I trust. Yeah, I don't
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: ask other women.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Why would you do your research like away from the subject.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: It makes no sense.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Why do they not look at all the men that
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: we're all lusting after, Like, that's who you should be, Like,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: you're only going to get teenage girls who don't know
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: fucking anything. Well, then to the you know, but that's lonely.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: And what's so interesting is the final thing I'll say.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I know we've been speaking for like six years now,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: five to seven business days, but the last thing I'll
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: say is that you know something I really I've been
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: thinking about. So this is hugely undercooked and I don't
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: know exactly how to say it, but maybe you can
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: help me. I have found in my experience as a
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: middle aged woman in this world that when men have
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: very submissive wives who don't have a job, who don't
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: have anything to talk about themselves, who've done nothing other
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: than stay home, and there's no and I don't want
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: to be rude about stay at home mums, and I
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: think that they can be amazing and interesting.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: And fascinating people. But what I have seen as.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: A pattern throughout my life anecdotally, both from people I
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: know and people I've heard about, is that the men
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: who have wives who have stripped themselves of all of
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: their identity and just become nothing other than service to
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: the man, that man will eventually grow bored of that
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: woman because she has no life and zest and power
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: of her own stimulate him, and he will go and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: fuck someone that he meets where at work. He's going
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: to fuck a woman with a job who's got something
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: to talk about. That's the woman he's going to leave
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: you for. That's the woman who's going to cheat on
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: you with. Is the woman who's.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Got her own drive, her own money, her own shit
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: going on.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: So as much as they say they want the free
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: slave at home, you know who's just got this like idyllic,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: like has no opinion and has no thoughts of her own,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: and she just thinks what you.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Want her to think.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: She probably did have the bride from coming to America, you.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Know, like I like, would you like? It's like they
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: think that they.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Want that, right, Yeah, like a dark wolf, but like
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: they think they want that, but.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: Then they go and cheat with the like they don't
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: want that, and the woman isn't the wolf wolf girl.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: She is interesting, and they tell her that they don't
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: want her to be interesting because they want a wife,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: and so she gives up all of those things and
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: then becomes that idyllic woman that has nothing else going on,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: that's picking out different curtains every other week.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: It's just like, it's not It's like an understimulated person
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: is not stimulating. Yeah, and so it's very important not
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: to allow it's very stimulated.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: And I talked about girl bossing recently.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: Girl bossing too close to the Sun.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, and we're both of the girl boss era and
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: I have lots of various thoughts on all of it.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: But there's nothing wrong. And feminism is about choice.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong or anything to judge about being a
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: homemaker and being a mother and a wife and raising
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: a family. If that is what your goal is and
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: you achieve that, I think that is as successful as
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: being the CEO of a fortune five hundred companies. A
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: woman like whatever it is that your goal is like
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: in life, achieving.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: That is success.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: Capitalist wet Dream isn't like the goal.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: Right unless that's your goal, like whatever it is for
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: you as an individual person. But the passion that you
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: feel for something is what should motivate and drive you.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: And when we talk.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: About marriage and kids and family and these structures that
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: have that have been created to deteriorate us from wanting
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: that everything that you've talked about today would I love
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: your conspiracy theory as well. I think it's completely spot
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: on with ripping these apart and then blaming women for it,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: and ripping these apart and blaming feminism for it, and
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: making everyone disassociate in their will and drive and fight
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: for things and just what what even matters anymore? That's
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: part of why they dumped the Epstein files the way
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: that they did, because.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: These are these are horrific.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: I thought I knew how dark the world could be,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: and yet it's more dark than I could have imagined.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: And yet nothing has happened from it, Nothing.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Has changed because men are so submissive, and while I
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: feel so enraged all the time, we're constantly being put
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: into this this cycle and yeah, I mean it's it's
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: submission and there's just more to life, Like we said,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: I think I think a change is going to come,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: and I think men are growing sick of this system,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: and I think that it's just going to have to
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: completely break. And then I think women are going to
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: be the only ones who know how to rebuild it,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: because we're the only ones who know how to really
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: gather and organize. And so I think the answer is
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: to sit back and let it break. I think that
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: is really important. It's just to sit back and let
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: them destroy it, Like, let them just break it and
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: start building our own getaway together. And the men who
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: are good can join us, and they can be allowed
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: at a visa into our world. That can be revoked
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: at any moment. But but if they want to all
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: be together and just talk to each other and sit
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: there wanking each other off, they can. They can have
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: this big, you know, male centered what's it called called
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: homosocial community. They can do that, and we will just
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: go off build our own shit, build our own companies,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: build our own happiness, build our own communities, and and
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: and welcome in the men who want to come in
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: by with that. Like before, other men will be trying
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: to break the fucking doors down, begging to get into
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: the society that we build. So I think maybe it's
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: not about trying to re trying to patch up humpty dumpty,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: you know, like the fucking fucked system that exists, or
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: trying to compete within.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: It, because that's also appalling.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's about building our own separate system outside
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: of this, and then and then making it so appealing
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: that everyone else will want to come in. And I
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: already know many men who are like, please get me
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: the fuck out of here. So I think that is
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing I'm imagining that to me feels
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: radical and joyful.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Is building a separate system.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this was every bit the patriarchal conversation I've I
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: was hoping for and dreamed of.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: It checked every box.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: So I know that this was a lot for you
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: to do, and I'm sure it took a lot of
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: energy and you stepping out of your current safe space
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: to do. So I appreciate you coming down because I
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: do know it. It does take a lot to summon
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: that up when you're healing, So.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: I appreciate you.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: No, I appreciate you for having me.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm so happy you're here. Trust me.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: I've been like literally dreaming of this Jimmy Lejimil. Follow
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: her on social I do this with everyone j A
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: M E E L A j A M I L.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: I'm also a lexics, so that's why it was difficult.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Also follow her on Wrong turnspod and please please please
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: go read her substack A Low Desire to Please with
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: Jimy Le Jamil, where she talks very in depth and
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: very articulate about her nervous breakdown and what.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: I explore systems. Yes on the in the essays.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, but if you are someone who is dealing with trauma,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: it is like I am.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: It was.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: It was very enlightening for me and made me feel
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: less alone. So thank you for that measure. Well, it's
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: so good to have you.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for joining us.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Gon