Latest / Shield Media Productions / SHIELD Sports Episode 3 w/ Ayden Novak and Peyton Rich

Transcript

SHIELD Sports Episode 3 w/ Ayden Novak and Peyton Rich · Shield Media Productions

0:15
SPEAKER_01: Come on, everybody, and episode three of the Shield Sports Podcast.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: This one's gonna be a little bit of a shorter kind of bonus episode coming at you from the midweek.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm here with Peyton Rich, and him and I both are huge football fans of the Michigan Wolverines and the Detroit Lions, and that's gonna be the talking points for the entirety of today's episode is what is going on with our football programs.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: We'll touch on Michigan State a little bit too because they're a local team and they're struggling as well.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: But today just doesn't seem like a good day to be a Detroit football fan, a Michigan football fan as a whole in the entire state.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Peyton, what's going through your mind right now with our beloved teams being so subpar?
1:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just gonna be a bad week until we get to Saturday and Sunday of football.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Sunday night just absolutely ruined, I mean, the start of this week for me.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just brutal.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: It felt like I honestly watched the exact same game between Michigan and uh Detroit Lions.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Ended the exact same way.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, both on fourth down and just uncompetitive throws end the game.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Um I feel like I was I had some deja vu there at the end of the Lions game.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a couple things that I was talking about, just kind of ranting to myself about on Sunday night.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we're watching the same football team with the roles reversed pretty much.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: I was ranting to myself saying Michigan's offense is horrible.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Their defense is great.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: The Detroit Lions' offense is great, their defense is horrible.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: The common ground between those two teams, lack of discipline.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: There are so many penalties from both teams that's Michigan's biggest problem is the discipline side of things.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: They get penalized a lot with unnecessary penalties.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Same thing with the Lions.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: They have a lot of pre-snap penalties that can easily be prevented.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: We saw nine of them.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: We saw nine penalties from the Lions on Sunday night.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Michigan cut down on them a little bit against Minnesota and they only had six, but still, it's a glaring issue with both squads.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: It felt like in the Lions game, especially, even the Panthers had a lot of penalties as well.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: It was, I mean, every single play there was a flag.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: It's just we have to play better football.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's a coaching problem.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, um, lack of discipline usually correlates back to the coaching.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: On the Michigan side of things, this new coaching staff was supposed to come in and help prevent that, and uh, it seems like it's done the opposite.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: DL, so let's take a deeper dive now.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: We'll start with Michigan because their game came first.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: They played on big noon Saturday against the Minnesota Golden Gophers, lost 20-14 at Minnesota for the first time since 1977.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Michigan lost on the road against Minnesota, and the first time they've lost to Minnesota in general since 2014.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: They lose the little brown jug.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: PJ Fleck and the Gophers rush the field after the game.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: A good win for Minnesota, regardless.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Not going to discredit them.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, just sloppy, sloppy football from the Michigan Wolverines, and they had the lead for a good chunk of that game.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: They put up 14 in the second quarter, had a 14-7 lead, and then a 14-10 lead going into the fourth quarter.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Nathaniel Staling with an amazing pick-six on the defensive side.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: I love the way this defense looks.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Just the offense is setting them back so far.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: It's it's just tough.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Michigan only had one touchdown on offense, only had one good drive on offense.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: I um was watching a video on TikTok earlier.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Um I I watched this guy a lot.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: Minnesota, I mean, obviously, like Novak said, credit them.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: They played two good football games in a row.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: They went and got a good win against Washington, and then came obviously upset Michigan at home.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: But uh it's just, I mean, these are a game you're supposed to win.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: The talent discrepancy is just so large that even in the past M Michigan hasn't played well and still just they're so much more talented found a way to get done this year.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, this is the fifth game.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they haven't played a team better than him all year.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: And every s I mean, it's just a hard watch every single Saturday.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: It's yes, it's watching Michigan beat themselves every single week, it feels like.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: The Western Michigan game, that was a loss.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: We talked about that before.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Michigan lost that game.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Even though it's a win-in-the-win column, they lost that game.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: That Oklahoma game, Oklahoma really beat themselves in that one.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: John Matir did not play well at all, and Oklahoma kind of shot themselves in the foot with that game and gave Michigan that win.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: The UTEP game, Michigan, seemed like they finally figured it out in the second half on offense.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Then they come out against Iowa.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: They actually played a really good game on offense, they just weren't able to finish drives and get points on the board.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: And then you come to Minnesota, and it was probably up there with the Western game for the worst game that Michigan has played all season long, just taking a look at some of the numbers.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're atrocious, man.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: They're so bad.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Bryce Underwood, 10 for 21, only 101 passing yards and two interceptions, no touchdowns.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: That might be the worst game of his career.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: That's really a huge talking point for the Michigan team, is his passing.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just don't know the last time I've ever seen um Michigan have less than 200 yards total in offense on a game.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Especially against an unranked opponent in Minnesota, which Minnesota, I mean, they've played well to start the year.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Um PJ Fleck always, I mean, gets the guys riled up for these big games.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: But it's just I mean, it's just brutal.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's the play calling, obviously, execution um from Bryce Underwood, especially when he's under pressure.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Hasn't been great, the O line's banged up, but they haven't played well the whole um season either.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, coming into the year, we all thought that we had the best best two running back, tandem, or best tandem of running backs in the country, and they just have not produced at all this season.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: And Jordan Marshall was the leading rusher for Michigan on Saturday.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: He had 10 carries for 50 yards, and he did have a lone offensive touchdown for the Wolverines on Saturday.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Michigan lost the total yards battle by quite a bit.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Only 180 total yards.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: 180.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna get it done on offense, especially considering what they did against Iowa.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: They had, I think, 450 or more total yards against Iowa, still lost the game, but they had a lot of total yards on offense.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: They were moving the ball really well.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: Then they come out against Minnesota in their first road game of the year and just take a huge step backwards and lose the total yards battle 262 to 180.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: They had three turnovers.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Bryce Underwood counted for two of them with two interceptions.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: They had six penalties for 43 yards.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: They were three for ten on third down, oh for one on fourth down, which ended up losing them the game, and they lost a time possession battle by 15 minutes.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was just uh probably one of the worst games I've ever seen Michigan football play in my 19 years of being on this planet.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it just comes down to the run game.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously Bryce Underwood hasn't developed as a passer as as we thought he was going to, being the I mean the first ranked prospect in the country when he signed him.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: But Michigan has always been able to win games like this because they just dominate the offensive line.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: They dominate the line of scrimmage.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Yep, win the battle in the trenches.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And when you can't run the ball efficiently in first and second down and and get into third and manageables, I mean Bryce Underwood has proven that he's not the kind of guy that's that can drop back on obvious passing downs and make plays and read a defense.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's the Jason back system.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I start I'm starting to believe that it's just, I mean, this team is not built around the West Coast style football.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: It's just not.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: And whether or not Wit stays and we d and we go and recruit guys that are more fit for the st uh the system, whether or not we move on from wit this year, that's also a huge talking point.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Something has gotta give.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: We either gotta go back to be just run downhill, just be able to I mean get to third and manageable and keep drives moving, or we have to just move on and change the whole I mean, it we can't keep going game in and game out of doing the same exact thing and just teams that are less talented than us dominating us in the line of scrimmage.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: That's two big points that I just wanted to bring up really quick is the coaching side of things with Wit and Jason Beck, the offensive coordinator, and then just the quarterback position, that's the other one.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: So we'll start with the quarterback position.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Is it time to bench Bryce Underwood?
8:58
SPEAKER_01: That is something a lot of Michigan fans are calling for.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: And I myself believe Bryce Underwood obviously is a very talented quarterback, but you make a great point.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: On obvious passing downs where he's forced to drop back, sit in the pocket, and make reads and make plays through the air, he has proven that he cannot do it consistently and effectively.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a big reason why Michigan fans are calling for him to get benched and for Tommy Carr to make some starts and get some experience.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: I think it just comes down to the coaching staff believing in Bryce Underwood.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: If you believe that he's gonna develop as a passer, then you had to keep him in.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the first four weeks of the season, he progressed every single game.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: He his week one against Western Michigan was uh obviously his worst game the season before this week.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And against Iowa, he looked really good.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: He uh threw for two, I think it was around 280 yards, did have an interception.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: But if he is not gonna be able to develop in real defense, maybe it's time to look somewhere else.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's yet.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I think if you lose another game against a bad opponent, maybe you go make the switch.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: But I don't know if Tommy Carr is a better fit for this offense either.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean he's only played one for real drive against UTEP's backup defense, and he looked good in that in that drive.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: But if they haven't made the change yet, it leads me to believe believe that he's not better for this offense than Bryce Hunderwood.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: The thing is though, Kyle Whittingham did hint at major changes coming.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking that's got something to do with the quarterback position.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: I think they're definitely considering making a change at quarterback.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: They've got the bye week to really figure it out.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: They've got Penn State on October 17th.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: They've still got a week and a half before that game, so they've got a lot of time to figure that out.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: I think they're gonna trot Bryce Underwood back out there for another start against Penn State, which I I think they should.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the move they should make.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, if they I think they give them one more chance.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: They lose another game to another not so great Big Ten opponent, which Penn State has also been a huge disappointment this year.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: I think you might have to give Tommy Carr some experience.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: But I think you gotta trust him.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: You gotta trust Bryce Underwood and try and let him make plays and believe in the kid.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: He is only 19 years old, he's only a sophomore.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: You gotta believe in him to make the plays, so I think that's a great point that you make.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing, Jason Beck.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is one that I'm adamant on.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: He's gotta go.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: Jason Beck cannot be the offensive coordinator after this season, and I think a lot of Michigan fans are in agreement on that one.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Like like I said earlier, his system does work when you have the right, I mean, the right people around.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: That that's just not how Big Ten football is played.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't play a West Coast, especially at Michigan, we don't play a West Coast style.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: We've always been just downhill running.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And it hasn't worked.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we wouldn't try a new system at offense.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: It didn't work.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: It's either time to after this year get into the portal and go get guys that fit that system, or it's time to move on from the OC.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: And I I just don't think that Michigan's ever gonna be the type of team to run a West Coast offense.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't seem like I mean, in the cold, I don't see it working.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Come come November against Ohio State.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: We have won games by destroying the the offensive line battle and create holds for running backs.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think Bryce Underwood should be the quarterback, because he's going to open up lanes in the running game after we execute these read plays.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: I I was also watching some of the film um back from the Minnesota game.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: We can't run the read option well.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, whether it's heider clamping down and not letting Bryce Underwood or Bryce Underwood not being decisive enough, that should be a part of the offense that works every single time, and it hasn't been effective for us.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: It also comes down to the O-line, too.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you mentioned, offense works that Jason Beck's got, just not with the players that Michigan has.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: Michigan's offense is built to win that battle in the trenches against those high-caliber teams like Ohio State in the Big Ten and the now the Indiana's.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: That's how you beat those teams is winning the battle in the trenches, running the ball effectively, averaging three, four, five yards a carry.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's how Michigan had always done it.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: That's how they won a national championship in 2023.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: They had the Jim Harbaugh system where they just had big dudes on the offensive line that got a great push on every play and a dynamic running back in Blake Forum that was able to make plays behind them.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: They don't have that this year with the Jason Beck playbook and how the offensive line operates.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: They're not able to block the way they used to.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And I just think Jason Beck's gotta go just for that reason.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Either that needs to happen, Jason Beck needs to get fired, or they need to make a huge push to recruit those guys that can run this offense, those speedsters that can make it happen.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: But my problem is I just don't think that works in the Big Ten.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: My dad had grown up a Michigan fan his whole life, and that's how I became a Michigan fan was he raised me into it.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: He watched Rich Rodriguez coach this Michigan program for three years in the late 2000s into 2010.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: That's how he tried to build the offense.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: He came from West Virginia, tried to build them around speed, speed, speed, and just beat teams with speed, and it didn't work.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Michigan went through three horrible years of football because they didn't have physicality and power up front.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: He tried to beat him with speed and it just wasn't working in the Big Ten.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's the one thing I worry about with this coaching staff for the future of this program.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Enough ranting about Michigan, more ranting about the Lions now.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: And like we mentioned, it's a bad time to be a football fan in the state of Michigan.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: So we'll jump into the Lions really quick and then we'll touch a little bit on Michigan State at the end.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: What is going on in Detroit?
14:52
SPEAKER_01: What happened to the championship window?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: 2023 season, they made it to the NFC Championship.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: 2024, they won their most they had the most wins in the regular season in franchise history at 15.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Then last and then they lose Ben Johnson.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Last year they make a huge regression.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: This year it seems like they're only getting worse.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: What is happening?
15:13
SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to Brad Holmes uh being passive.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: His first couple years the GM in Detroit, he was amazing.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: He went made some great trades, got great draft capital, and I mean made some great picks.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And the there's every pick that he I shouldn't say every, most of the picks he made are huge parts of this team.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: The problem is we knew coming into this year that the defense was going to be an issue.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: An issue issue is an understatement right now.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: To say the least.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: If you're we are allowing over 300 yards per game uh passing, and we haven't really played I mean Josh Allen, obviously the Bills was that was a tough tough matchup for us.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Besides that, we have not played d di truly dynamic offenses.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: And if you're averaging over 300 yards allowed passing against these teams, I mean what's gonna happen when the Bears come in and Caleb Williams with Ben Johnson, what's gonna happen when you play these division matchups?
16:15
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's not gonna get better.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So e you have to address it, you have to either address the secondary, go and get guys, or you have to change the the scheme.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta change everything, it feels like on defense.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for one, I know the Lions don't have the greatest personnel.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: They have Aiden Hutchinson, they've got Ali McNeil, they've got Jack Campbell in the front seven.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: The front seven is not an issue.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: The front seven is doing just fine.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: The secondary obviously is a giant glaring weakness.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: They have the worst passing defense and the worst overall defense in the NFL.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: But Calvin Shepard also doesn't make adjustments.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Tedaroa McMillan finished that game with 14 receptions.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: He had 192 receiving yards and two touchdowns.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: He had nine catches, 147 yards, and a touchdown in the first half just the first 30 minutes of the game.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And then what adjustments did Calvin Shepard make at halftime?
17:13
SPEAKER_00: None.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Not a thing.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: After last season, I was ready to move on to Kelvin Shepard.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why we didn't.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Um it just seems like every single play the seam is wide open.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's the RPO, the linebackers come down to play the run right over top with the slant.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's tight end just running a running a go route and the seam wide open.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: If we aren't going to have the personnel to be able to play man defense, you can't play man defense.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: And it's and Chris Collinsworth on tonight football, as much as I hate the guy, as much as he annoys me, I mean he's he the whole night he was he was right of talking about it.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: The Lions are stuck in between wanting to play man, not having the personnel and just playing zone coverage and not being able to get I mean as much pressure as we want to.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: But the prop but the how I see it is our front four are good enough to get pressure.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Even when we didn't blitz, we were in the face of Bryce Young.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: But we couldn't cover long enough.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we couldn't cover for two seconds.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, with how quick his release was, he'd he would throw that slant a second after the ball was snapped, and it'd be open for 20 yards.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: That's a great point to bring up because so many times they showed a replay of the front four, and Aiden Hutchinson just straight up bull rushing one of their offensive tackles, or just spin moving, getting right around him.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: It was all on those RPO plays.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Aiden Hutchinson is still getting a hit on Bryce Young, and he's still getting pressure on Bryce Young.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: But because the defense can't cover in the secondary, he's able to get that ball out in two seconds or less.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Aiden Hutchinson's getting to the quarterback in two and a half seconds, which is still insanely good for a pass rusher.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: He's just not given enough time to get a sack at all.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: They had two sacks in that game.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: One of them came on the first drive where Leem McNeil was able to get to Bryce Young.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: The other one was DJ Wanham just making a shoestring tackle at the line of scrimmage.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: So that barely counts.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: The amount of times uh excuse me, Detroit got pressure in on Bryce Young on Sunday night and got two sacks is unbelievable to me.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: That just shows the glaring weakness and how bad this Detroit secondary is.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: I I think what's absolutely crazy to me, on one of the on one of the sacks, I believe it was McNeil won the first quarter.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we Hutch was playing slot.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: He was playing against a slot receiver and covering covering I I think I I believe it was a slot receiver.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: That speaks volumes to like what are we doing, man?
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Like as long as we guard I mean uh if we can just die slower, like on defense.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Mike, I heard Mike Tomlin talking about it after the game I was watching.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: We have to find a way to die slower with the personnel we have right now because if we can just uh make it hard on him at least to drive down the field and score, maybe they'll make a mistake, maybe they'll throw a pick or a big penalty.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: Right now it's just every single play.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Some somebody's wide open, there's a big hole in the defensive line.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: It's just every single play it feels like is going for ten yards and a first down.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: It's I I I don't even want to talk about it anymore with how bad the defense is.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Thankfully, one positive on the defensive side of the ball is Brian Branch is finally able to return to practice this week.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's gonna help out the secondary immensely.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: But going back to your point about Brad Holmes not making moves, when he lost out on that Joey Porter trade with the Steelers and he went to the Cowboys instead of the Lions, that was just ultimately to me what speaks to me at what he's done in the front office in the past two, two, three years.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Because the secondary has been a problem even in the 15-win season that Detroit had.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: The secondary was still an issue.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: When Kirby Joseph went down, when Brian Branch went down, that secondary was a huge problem.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And he has made no changes to it.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: They have made no adjustments to that secondary, haven't even tried to build a contending defense in the back end to win games.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: If you have just a decent secondary and Joey Porter, I think will make a huge difference in this game against Carolina.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: If Joey Porter is in this game covering Tet McMillan, he's not gonna go for 14, 192, and two.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: There's no way.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's actually a difference maker, and the Lions are probably able to win that football game.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I 100% agree.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And we have to just accept the fact that Kirby Joseph is not going to be back in the near future.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: He probably won't play football again.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he will either.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: So the fact that we're holding on to the fact that we have a really good safe.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Duo coming back.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Brian Branch obviously is going to be a huge part of it.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: He can hopefully hopefully help the slot issue we have right now cover that slot receiver.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: But we aren't going to I mean that that duo is not going to be back together for a long time, if ever.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: So we have to go make a move, whether that's you give up some firepower on offense at this point.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't even care.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Like you can we aren't gonna score 30 points a game to be able to win these games every single game, especially in the playoffs when you play.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: We'll say even if you Super Bowl aspirations obviously crazy right now, but I mean if we would play the Bills again.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Good night.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: That game was outrageous.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Bryce Young was outrageous against us.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: Bryce Young threw for 329 yards.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: I genuinely thought he would go for 400.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: He went he went 29 for 41, 329 yards, and two touchdowns.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: So when Bryce Young, kind of a mid-tier NFL quarterback, he's not bad, he's not the greatest, is throwing for 330 yards on your defense, that should that that just says enough in how many problems your defense has.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: And just touching on the offense really quick, it's not like the offense played a bad game.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: They just didn't cash in in the red zone a couple times, they went two for four on their red zone drives.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And we'll get to this later, but the last drive of the game.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: We'll get to that in a little bit.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: But that one was really just kind of the straw that broke the camel's back for me, and it led me to almost throwing a huge temper tantrum in my basement watching the football game.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Anyways, Jared Goff played decent on the stat sheet.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: It looks like he plays really well on the stat sheet, but there were some costly miss throws that he made.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: Missed a couple touchdown throws later in the game that could have led to maybe a different result in that football game, but his numbers 32 for 52, 412 yards, a touchdown, no picks.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: He's still yet to throw an interception this year, which is a really good sign.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: My problem is he should not be throwing the ball 52 times in a game.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Jared Goff is not that quarterback that should be wheeling and dealing the entire game, throwing 50 pass attempts.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And then Jameer Gibbs just wasn't ever able to get going.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: He only had 15 carries for 46 yards and a touchdown.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's partially due to how subpar the offensive line is and run blocking.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: They weren't able to run block for Jameer Gibbs.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: And then the leading receiver was Jamison Williams, six catches, 102 yards, which also speaks more volumes to Amon Ross St.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Brown not getting involved enough in the offense.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: There are just problems across the board with this football team.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Here's my problem with the offense.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of very talented pieces.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean Jameer Gibbs might be the best running back in football, obviously with what Bijan did, Bijan did last night, you know.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's incredible too.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: But we aren't using our our talent in the way that they're the best.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: J-Mo J Mo was was brought in to be the home run threat over the top.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: And right now, he's but seems like the primary target.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the last two games.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying Brown had, I think it was two catches for 19 yards last week.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: He's not and and this week I think he had uh maybe it was eight catches for 75 yards, so you can check me on that.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: But he's not built to only be a slot like a slot slant on third and four.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: He's the he is the primary option on this team.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: He's your guy.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: He's supposed to run these down the field routes and pick up big chunks of 20 yards.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: He's not only I mean, it just seems like we're not using Amron down the field at all this year.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Like he's way more talented than what we're using him as.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And uh Gibbs isn't going to have 140 screaming yards every game.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: And we can't expect him to.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: It's way easier to play the run on defense when you know I mean what?
25:58
SPEAKER_00: It seems it seems like over half the plays Gibbs is touching the ball.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Which uh he's a uh probably the best player on our team, and he needs hit a lot of touches.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: But uh we don't have a threat downfield right now, a true threat.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Whether that's Goff not be able to make the throw, J-Mo's not not running in enough deep routes.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: I just think we need to get back to our system what three years ago now, where we used our tail in the best possible way, and I think that's the play calling issue.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: No question about it, and I brought it up right when we started talking about the Lions, they've made huge, huge steps backwards and a big regression ever since the departure of Ben Johnson.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: And look at what Ben Johnson is doing in Chicago, man.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: His first year as a Chicago head coach, they made the playoffs, made it to the NFC divisional round, and made big strides from what was, I believe, a five or six win Chicago team the previous year, takes him to the playoffs in his first year as head coach, and they're just as dangerous this year.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just a testament to how good of a coach Ben Johnson was.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: And you and I were talking a little bit before the show.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: As great as Dan Campbell has been as a head coach, I think it's safe to say that it wasn't him that brought the success in the offense into this Detroit team and why they were scoring so many points.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: It was Ben Johnson.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Because you see Charlie Morton last year as the offensive coordinator, the offense was not good at all.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: And with Drew Pet Singh they scored 31, 31, 31, 26.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Points-wise, that's not bad, but it's just not enough to win games with the defense that you've got.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's not the Ben Johnson offense that we were used to at a couple 50-point outings in that 2024 season, winning those shootout games.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: It's just not able to compete anymore.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: It's just not explosive.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: This offense is not explosive, it's way more, you know, play-by-play, drive down the field, just get first downs, and that's not the offense that we need to have with the defense like this.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: We need to be able to create big plays.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: And this year we haven't created big plays.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: We haven't had a J-Mo over the top, we haven't had the Amanarat 25-yard chunk plays.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously Jameer Gibbs has created some big plays for us in the run game.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And even, I mean the screen game.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: But that's not how this team's gonna win games because if we have these drives keep stalling out, our defense is not gonna get stops.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: So we need to be able to create big plays just to live just to limit the fact that we're gonna have some draws, um, some drives stall out on us.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Which obviously that's gonna happen.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have drives stall out, it's football.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna happen.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: But watching Jake Bates kick four field goals, credit Jake Bates, he's a great kicker, he's one of the best in the league.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: But watching him kick four field goals, especially having him kick two within 40 yards, come on, man.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: You've got to be able to finish those drives.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: And those they're two red zone drives that really irked me.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: First half, Jake Bates kicks a field goal from 32 yards away and it's an absolute shit shot.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Second drive, down in the red zone, you get uh, I think it's I think it was second and 10, I think.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Second and 10 from like the 15-yard line.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Then you get backed up to fourth and 20 from your own from the 25.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: And then you run that hook and ladder play that Ben Johnson tried against Arizona.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: It worked against Arizona because it wasn't fourth down.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: But it was fourth and 20, and I was livid when I saw that play call.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: They're running an underneath five-yard completion, lateral back to Jameer Gibbs up the sideline.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: When you know Carolina is going to be putting five guys at the sticks on the five-yard line, not letting anything get past them.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: So you run it in front of them, five yards past the line of scrimmage.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: What kind of a play call was that?
29:46
SPEAKER_01: That was their second to last, third to last drive of the game, before they got the Laporta touchdown to make it a one-score game.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: And then the last drive.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Your defense finally does their job.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: They finally get a stop for you, and they give you the ball with two minutes left and a timeout to go down the field and make something happen.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: You go four and out in just the worst sequence of plays I've ever seen.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: Second and six, you take a sack, backs you up to third and thirteen, take a shot up the seam, miss your guy.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Fourth and thirteen.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: And then you and I were unbelievably mad at this player right here.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: We talked about this a ton during practice yesterday.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: You throw the ball short of the sticks on fourth and thirteen, you give it to Isaac Tesla eight yards past the line of scrimmage, and he's not able to get to the line to gain.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why are we throwing the ball short of the sticks with the game on the line?
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Why?
30:42
SPEAKER_00: Here's my problem.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, going even going back to the fourth and twenty call.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna go for it, give the give him a shot.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Because if not, take the points.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you gonna run that little lateral play when, like you said, there is eight guys in the end zone and then and like guarding six, like that's realistically never going to work.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Unless maybe you get like a face mask or something.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: I guess that's a good thing.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: You gotta get completely lucky.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: But if you do to take those points, then you're only down three with two minutes left.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you know, the last drive was terrible.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I text us into our group chat after the game.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: I've never seen a team not get a first down that situation.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: They're giving you the first 30 yards.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: That's what Chris Collinsworth Chris Collinsworth said that exact same thing through the first three plays of that drive.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Just take what they're giving you.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: They are giving you those first 30 yards, they're letting you get down the field because they don't want to give up anything over the top.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: And it that drive was just so opposite of how Jared Goff usually plays football.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: And it like as much as I love the guy, it seems like in the big moments he just does not show up.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: It it seemed like that his whole career.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: In the playoffs, he can't close games.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: The whole game he was playing passive, not giving up sacks.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, if there's any pressure, just throw the ball away.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: On second and six, you have you have two guys underneath open for a first down, and you're gonna take a sack trying to push the ball downfield with a minute and fifty seconds left.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, why?
32:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, throw throw a check down, get twenty yards, keep the drive moving, instead of I mean, bring it to third and thirteen or whatever it was, uh and needn't be perfect.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And then on third and thirteen, you're gonna throw a steam route and double coverage and make it fourth and thirteen.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not how this offense has been playing football.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not how we're going to be successful.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: We're we kinda like how I said earlier, our play caller has been just first down, get first down, not explosive.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: So why are we trying to alter that mid-game?
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I've like I want us to get more explosive, but the play calling hasn't been leading us to be explosive.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: And that was not the time to do it either.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: That was not the time to try and get big and try and get it all back at once with the game on the line when you just gotta keep the game alive.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: Just get the first down and do what you've been doing the entire game and give yourself a chance, man.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean you have two mi two minutes and a timeout is so much time in the NFL when I mean with the weapons that you have.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: All it takes is one time for J Moe to get loose downfield and you make a throw.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: But the problem is when you're at your ten yard line, they're not gonna let that happen.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Like you have to at least get to your forty in order to even have a chance realistically to go make that throw downfield.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, it was just a terrible watch the last five minutes of the line.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the play calling, not taking the points at fourth and twenty and throwing, I mean, not even close to the sticks, and then not throwing close to the sticks again on fourth down in the game.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: What what are we doing, man?
33:58
SPEAKER_01: That's a question that all Lions fans have been asking, and same with the Michigan fans with Michigan football, is what are we doing?
34:04
SPEAKER_01: So, enough talking about them.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's just touch on Michigan State really quick, just to end this little bonus episode off.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: This one, I feel like the state fans aren't as frustrated as Michigan fans and Lions fans have been, for two reasons.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: One, because Michigan State didn't have as high of expectations as Michigan or the Lions did coming into this year, even with the new head coach and Pat Fitzgerald.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: They had a lot of faith in them, but they didn't have the highest expectations.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: And two, they're just getting bit by the injury bug, man.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: They're getting destroyed by injuries.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: Their best linebacker, Jordan Hall, has been banged up for the first five games.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: And Cam Edwards, the life of their offense and their running back position out for the season with uh, I believe it was some sort of a knee injury, and they're just falling apart at the seams as well.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: They've started the season two and three, just got destroyed by Wisconsin 31-3 at Camp Randall, and they've only got a tougher road ahead of 'em.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Michigan State's just been struggling too.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think that game against Michigan is just gonna be disappointment full.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: The the Battle of Paul Bunyan disappointment edition this year in Ann Arbor, and it's it's it's not gonna be pretty at all.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, m st state ran to a good team.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Wisconsin's actually been playing really well this year.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: They've been playing good football.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Um and but it's just so hard to try and like uh find where Michigan State's at in the realm of college football just because there's so many uh I mean there's so many things that we just don't know.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean they played well the first couple weeks, obviously they didn't play great competition, but um I still think Michigan State is in a better spot they were in the years past.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: I believe in the new coaching staff.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: I believe that the players they're bringing in are gonna help win games in the future, but I mean, like you said, if you lose some of your just key pieces, of course you're not gonna look good.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: It's just how cloud football is these days.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even the even the non-powered conferences have really good players that if they lost they'd look terrible as well.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: I think that the state of Michigan is not in a great spot right now this year in football.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: As much as I want I mean, the Lions probably have the most uh, you know, I guess expectation the end of the year.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: But some changes need to be made in all three of these power, you know, I mean, I guess power conferences in college and in the NFL for the Lions.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot of work to do for the rest of the year for all three of these teams.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Major changes indeed.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: And it's just been incredibly frustrating, especially as Michigan fans and Lions fans.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: We've gotten used to winning with how the Lions just turned their culture around and how Michigan just won a national championship three years ago.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: We got so used to winning football in the state of Michigan, and now it has just gone down the drain and just disappeared right in front of our eyes.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: It's really frustrating.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: But that's gonna do it for this bonus episode of the SHIELD Sports Podcast.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: We will be back later this week with the whole crew back at it again, making our picks and recaps from college football and NFL.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: So be sure to tune in for that in a couple of days.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Peyton, thank you again for joining me.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you hopping out.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we have some more luck this weekend, and you know, we don't have to make another one of these episodes next Tuesday.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're hoping to never do this kind of thing again.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: So, again, tune in in a couple days for our full episode coming right back at you, episode four.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank you all again for listening.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm in a Novak.