Latest / The Starfish Storytellers / Season 4, Episode 5: Crafting Cinematic Brand Stories on the Hero’s Journey with Doug Birnbaum

Transcript

Season 4, Episode 5: Crafting Cinematic Brand Stories on the Hero’s Journey with Doug Birnbaum · The Starfish Storytellers

0:00
Welcome to the starfish storytellers the podcast
0:03
that makes a difference one story at a time by
0:05
bringing storytelling to life We're in kindergarten
0:18
we had this game where it was sort of a chart
0:21
who could read the most books. And you'd get
0:23
a little paper circle. And the best of my memory
0:25
was, you know, about tracing a tin can kind of
0:27
thing. And you made this little bookworm that
0:29
went around the ceiling. Some people got a few
0:30
feet off the wall and there went their little
0:32
bookworm. And both my brother and I, ours went
0:35
around the room. So my mom really read to us
0:38
a lot. You know, we were constantly in the library.
0:40
I remember one of my earliest responsibilities
0:42
was to learn how to write my last name so that
0:45
I could get a library card. Because as soon as
0:46
I could write my first and last name, spell it.
0:48
You know, I had that rite of passage. I got myself
0:50
a library card. And story was sort of everything
0:52
to us. When I got a driver's license, as soon
0:55
as I was 16, I was up in Hollywood taking acting
0:57
classes. And I went up there and I studied the
1:00
Meisner technique and all of these other things
1:02
about acting. I got to where I was going out
1:04
on auditions and I saw a roomful of people looked
1:06
just like me reading the script exactly how I
1:08
was going to read it. And I just thought this
1:09
isn't for me. And I quickly gravitated to kind
1:12
of behind the camera work. and went to school
1:15
for filmmaking. I went to Loyola Marymount School
1:17
of Film and Television. I graduated in 2004,
1:21
and I've been pretty much working in video, television,
1:25
and photography ever since. Around 2008, when
1:28
things slowed down and got a little strange,
1:29
I moved up to San Francisco to do my MFA in still
1:32
photography. And when I graduated, I went knocking
1:35
on all these doors to be a still photographer
1:37
with a portfolio. And I ended up getting all
1:39
this video work because of my background in film
1:41
and television. and that just never stopped.
1:44
Technically, I'm more of a cameraman by training
1:47
in some sense. Deep background photography, went
1:50
around for a lot of years just being a DP on
1:52
video shoots. That was great for about 10 years
1:55
and then I hit a total burnout. I felt like I
1:57
needed to transition because what I wanted to
1:59
see more of in our work was just a lot more story,
2:02
just a little bit more structure, and it's what
2:04
I studied at film school. It's just going to
2:06
a great film school like Loyola Marymount. You
2:08
really get this just amazing Hollywood tradition
2:10
and DNA in story telling, kind of how you structure
2:14
a story. And for me, it's all based around the
2:17
hero's journey. And it's that really formula
2:19
that's so strong that just resonates with all
2:22
of us that we never forget. And just that piece
2:24
of filmmaking is so important to me that when
2:26
I kind of stopped everything and did some deep
2:29
soul searching about what I was going to do,
2:31
I was going to just load up my van every day
2:33
and go bounce out and just... show up on Friday
2:35
with a crew, pan the camera around and roll.
2:37
Nobody has a plan. You know, it's just that I
2:39
had a few projects that just kind of broke me
2:41
down and I had to build myself up. And I really
2:43
needed to come up with a template for clients
2:45
where I could bring them in and have kind of
2:46
like a client onboarding where I just kind of
2:48
say, this is how we work. This is how we get
2:50
to a story. I'm going to give you these seven
2:53
or so questions and we can expand it. We can
2:55
abbreviate it. But let's just film these parts
2:58
so that if we're going to make a video about
2:59
your brand, we at least have it. We at least
3:01
have something that works. like a Hollywood narrative.
3:04
So in some ways, my journey's been 20 years of
3:07
going out and making films for people, having
3:10
a really structured and formal background and
3:12
training, and wanting to get people to tell their
3:14
stories as well as I possibly can. So that's
3:17
really what my story is and how I got here. Hello,
3:45
my name is Liana Henry and welcome to the Starfish
3:47
Storytellers. I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group.
3:51
We're a MarCom and project management firm headquartered
3:54
on the East Coast in quaint colonial Bedford,
3:57
Massachusetts. I am your host and passionate
4:00
about storytelling and I'm actually on a mission
4:03
to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
4:06
We've named ourselves the Starfish Storytellers
4:08
after the starfish story. The moral of the starfish
4:11
story is based on the power of one. No matter
4:14
how big the challenge, each action we take makes
4:17
a difference and has an impact. One step, one
4:21
starfish or one story at a time. Every episode,
4:24
we welcome a new storyteller who will share their
4:27
story meant to inspire and connect with you.
4:29
Then we'll break it down and offer tips for anyone
4:32
who's ready to tell their story. So thanks for
4:34
tuning in and let's get started. Today's episode
4:37
is crafting cinematic brand stories with the
4:40
hero's journey. And with me today is Doug Birnbaum.
4:45
Doug has been driven by a lifelong passion for
4:47
storytelling, and this began all the way back
4:49
in kindergarten. This led him to build a thriving
4:52
production company in the Hollywood area, and
4:56
it's dedicated to cinematic brand storytelling.
5:00
So welcome to the show, Doug. I'm really looking
5:02
forward to digging into this story. Thanks. So
5:05
when we start every episode, we ask our guests
5:07
to introduce themselves. Would you mind telling
5:09
our listeners a little bit more about yourself?
5:11
Yeah, definitely. My journey and my career started
5:14
down in LA. I had a formidable background where
5:16
I was fortunate enough to go to Loyola Marymount
5:18
Film School, School of Film and Television. And
5:20
I studied filmmaking at a really great time.
5:23
I think I studied filmmaking at the best time.
5:26
that anyone could have done it because we were
5:28
following on the cocktails of the independent
5:29
golden age of the nineties. And there was just
5:32
an amazing attitude toward filmmaking at that
5:35
time. You know, I was studying at both in LA
5:37
and in Hollywood under the Hollywood system.
5:38
But at the same time, it was like, we could do
5:40
this on our own. We've got the cameras. We're
5:42
going to go out on the weekends and just make
5:43
films. And it's, it's a more level playing field.
5:46
But of course we'll take your budget and your
5:48
money and your distribution deals if you have
5:49
them Hollywood, but let us go out and make it
5:51
with no oversight. So there was this romance
5:53
of this do it yourself attitude at that time
5:55
that really drew me to filmmaking. And I kind
5:59
of made a little bit of a joke or a metaphor
6:00
in the brand film that you saw of mine, where
6:02
I talked about how I never really got to join
6:04
a rock band or a garage band, but I did get to
6:06
go out and make films at the time. And I think
6:08
that that is kind of the attitude that was around
6:11
in the era of 90s independent filmmaking. It
6:14
was kind of similar to a rock and roll revolution
6:16
or a punk rock movement where we're just going
6:18
to do this in our garage. We'll take your money
6:20
if you give it to us. We'll take that big stage,
6:23
but... We're going to do it anyway. And I love
6:25
that kind of pioneer and renegade kind of attitude
6:27
of filmmaking because I think you have to have
6:30
guts to do it. It's kind of a miracle that any
6:32
film gets made. And nowadays we're fortunate
6:34
because everybody kind of needs one and there's
6:36
little brand stories that we can tell. You know,
6:39
anytime I see a big feature Hollywood film get
6:41
made, I just sort of applaud, applaud the arc
6:44
first of all that happened because it's a big
6:46
endeavor. Today is fun because today it's like
6:48
everybody needs these services. Everybody needs
6:51
a little bit more exposure. Everybody needs to
6:53
tell their story. So a lot of those, that background
6:56
and experience that I had studying and training
6:58
and bouncing around Hollywood, freelancing and,
7:01
you know, meeting people and working on films
7:03
with friends. I think that was just a huge foundation
7:05
for my career. I moved North eventually. I did
7:08
leave Hollywood to go get my MFA in still photography
7:11
in San Francisco. And when I was done with that,
7:14
I ended up knocking all these doors, trying to
7:16
be a still photographer up here. And I. all of
7:19
a sudden had this background in video that people
7:21
found out about. And a friend of mine from SoCal,
7:24
we went and we made this short film and it won
7:26
a bunch of awards. So here I did some cinematography,
7:29
put this piece out there and video of this was
7:31
going red hot. This was probably about 2012 for
7:34
2013 and just never slowed down. I just fell
7:37
right into video, fell right into shooting commercially
7:39
in the beginning and kind of felt like, well,
7:41
right now I'm doing the still photography thing,
7:42
but I'm doing these video projects on the side
7:44
until I get the still photography thing up and
7:46
going. And it just never slowed down and where
7:48
my career was really just shooting video. And
7:50
then there's a piece of that missing. piece that
7:52
was missing really was a story component. There
7:54
were times where I'd get to do some projects.
7:55
I had a little bit of story to them. People approached
7:57
me with kind of a mood board. We'd shoot it according
7:59
to style. Things would be pictorial. They're
8:01
going to the web. They're really short form.
8:03
And I just really missed that story element to
8:06
it. I really wanted there to be a little structure
8:08
piece to everything that I did where it really
8:10
resonated with people. And I kind of followed
8:12
this, this hero's journey that I was trained
8:15
on going through a really formal background in
8:17
filmmaking. And I'd get to talking to people
8:19
about it and I'd bring it up. I'd go, well, this
8:22
is kind of story structure and people look at
8:23
me like I'm not it's like totally glaze over
8:26
I'm like no you see it every day it's the same
8:28
thing that you see in the movies you know you
8:29
kind of establish this piece you kind of set
8:31
a theme kind of take people on a journey somebody
8:33
sort of has a calling they accept that calling
8:36
every time spoiler alert they go through the
8:39
kind of trials tribulations and the transformation
8:41
that comes through that second act and they eventually
8:43
can kind of face their fear and then come out
8:45
the other side transformed so it's really about
8:47
showing that arc and that transformation where
8:49
somebody arrives at the other side and makes
8:51
her a really strong story, whether it's a two
8:53
-hour narrative or you can do a one -minute brand
8:56
video. Both are ambitious in their own way. It's
9:00
really a beautiful thing when you can kind of
9:01
bring all of those pieces together because people
9:03
won't forget it. I mean, it's just so memorable.
9:05
It's our DNA as a culture. I mean, we understand
9:07
our world through story. We set our values through
9:10
story as a culture. The stories that serve us,
9:12
we hold onto. The stories that don't, they stop
9:14
getting told. So everything we know. our whole
9:18
world view kind of has to do with stories. So
9:20
it's like, why not tell better stories? This
9:22
should be our skill set, right? Yeah. I mean,
9:24
everything that you shared with us, I mean, I
9:26
find it so fascinating. Thank you so much for
9:29
sharing your story with us, Doug. I really loved
9:31
the transition in your journey from wanting to
9:34
make films to becoming a brand strategist and
9:36
really an evangelist for the hero's journey.
9:39
Storytelling's at the heart of every great brand
9:41
and one of the most powerful storytelling frameworks
9:43
is the hero's journey. From ancient myths to
9:46
blockbuster films, this timeless structure captivates
9:48
audiences and takes them on an emotional journey.
9:52
When applied to branding, the hero's journey
9:54
turns customers into protagonists, brands into
9:57
trusted guides, and products into transformational
9:59
solutions. You know, one question that comes
10:01
up for me as you are talking, because I've talked
10:04
to other filmmakers who've moved into that commercial
10:07
space, you brought your skill set with you. I
10:11
know that you're passionate about the storytelling.
10:13
But I talked to this other filmmaker and she
10:16
just was a purist, like purist cinematic. Like
10:20
she wanted to do documentaries. That's all she
10:21
wanted to do. And she just really wasn't able
10:24
to make the leap into the commercial side. For
10:26
her, it became, I need to do this to pay the
10:29
bills. And it doesn't sound like that's where
10:31
you're coming from. It sounds like you made the
10:33
leap. You're able to bring the same level of
10:36
passion. You're not abandoning your roots in
10:40
any way. It's just sort of a different medium
10:42
in a way. It's just a different angle. It's just
10:45
it's saying we can tell the beautiful cinematic
10:48
story and make your brand elevate your brand
10:51
in a way that You probably couldn't do it yourself.
10:55
Yeah, there's a lot there. There's a lot there
10:57
that you're touching on. I try and remain somewhat
10:59
flexible and kind of evolve with the medium.
11:01
And I think the medium is evolving really, really
11:03
quickly. My passion and my goal is still to make
11:06
a feature film. I'm biting away at that. I'm
11:08
really kind of holding myself accountable to
11:10
go out and do that. And I'm writing it piece
11:11
by piece. I'm going to finish the script and
11:13
I have deadlines for it and all these things.
11:15
So I'm really committed to that. That's my overall
11:17
goal. That's what I've always wanted to do. I
11:19
really see myself as offering my services to
11:21
clients and meeting them where they are. It's
11:23
a tricky thing because I'm really in the branded
11:25
content space. I've been a DP for a lot of years,
11:27
so I've gotten hired out and I've shot everything.
11:29
I've shot feature length documentaries. I've
11:30
shot commercials. I've shot it all. I've been
11:32
a part of a lot of different things, but I think
11:34
that my core offering really is this brand storytelling.
11:38
That's what we're anchored around. And then there's
11:40
going to be these little pieces around it that
11:41
point back at it. So it's a lot of short -form
11:44
content pieces that I'm really offering as a
11:46
product. But I do feel as an artist, because
11:48
you have said a really interesting way where
11:50
like, where's your heart? Where's your passion?
11:51
Where is it? It's really just about narrative
11:54
filmmaking. It's really about storytelling. And
11:56
if I can kind of help shape people to get them
11:58
there, I'm going to have a lot more passion to
12:00
the project. And honestly, I don't want to push
12:03
them too hard to where it's really in my direction
12:06
or my voice. So they have to meet me kind of
12:08
halfway. And we live in a delicate dance. of
12:11
film is just a collaborative medium. I mean,
12:13
it takes a lot of people to go out and make a
12:15
film or a video. It's just there's a lot of parts
12:17
to it. We can kind of do some parts for the client
12:20
and kind of hold their hand and show them story
12:21
and help them find their voice. In some ways,
12:24
they out to help tell their story too. They have
12:26
to meet us there and tell us what parts of these
12:28
things, like what it was like. And of course,
12:30
we'll try and add some Hollywood pixie dust to
12:32
it and dramatize it and make it really regs in
12:34
it and make it feel and take people on a little
12:36
bit of a journey, a little bit of that transition.
12:39
But there is that element of doing it for a client,
12:41
doing it with the client, collaborating and kind
12:44
of drawing the lines. So it is somewhat of a
12:46
relationship that we have to sort of establish
12:48
and gain the trust of a client to do it too,
12:51
because they're probably trusting us to do something
12:53
kind of delicate that they've thought about a
12:55
million times in their head and they've run through
12:57
their origin story and they told it at cocktail
12:59
parties. But now to say in front of a camera
13:01
with the crew around, you know. I'm going to
13:04
push them to go out and do cinematic stuff. Like,
13:06
let's go out in the world and kind of reshoot
13:07
that. Let's recreate that element. Let's recreate
13:09
a scene that kind of speaks to whatever that
13:12
is. I'm talking really, really broadly here because
13:15
we don't, you know, without a specific example.
13:17
It's hard, but you do want a piece of that film
13:18
to be tangible to somebody's story. So if you
13:20
can show something versus just tell it, that's
13:24
kind of speaks to the medium of filmmaking is
13:26
you always want to show it and then you want
13:27
to graduate that to be as beautiful and pictorial
13:30
as possible. But the foundation you're always
13:32
building on is the story itself. Well, I think,
13:35
too, people have a vision. They don't always
13:38
have a way to get from here to here. So I really
13:44
appreciated when I read your e -book because
13:47
you were laying out the steps for people in a
13:50
very easy to follow way. But like you said, delicately,
13:54
like sensitively, where... You kind of walk them
13:57
through. If you want to tell your story, here
14:00
are the bits and pieces that we're going to need
14:03
from you. And in essence, you're going into their
14:07
heads and pulling that out, but you're helping
14:09
them organize that vision in a way for you to
14:13
be able to then lay it all out in a really visually
14:16
beautiful way. Yeah, I wrote that as a methodology
14:19
for myself. I just tried to organize it and share
14:21
it kind of publicly in a way that's kind of fun
14:23
to read, easy to read, and kind of a catchy.
14:26
design, so you feel like you're going on a little
14:27
bit of a journey through it. That was my kind
14:29
of intent for it. I do see it as a living doc.
14:31
I'll probably revise it in time and kind of keep
14:33
updating it. But for me, that's really a template
14:36
for working with a client is just to kind of
14:38
go through those steps and sort of discover all
14:40
of these pieces to it. And I really do think
14:42
that the film emerges out of it quickly, especially
14:44
a brand film. You know, the very first step,
14:46
I'll just put it into three basic steps. It's
14:48
really customer journey mapping and building
14:50
a client avatar. I lumped them together and they're
14:52
very similar tasks, at least for making a brand
14:54
film. So you really find out who it is you're
14:56
speaking to and the voice that you're going to
14:58
speak to them with. Whether you're the authority
15:00
or this font or the expert or the peer, you're
15:03
going to find that voice of how you speak to
15:04
that client. And then we're going to ask questions
15:07
just about, can ask it really in two ways. We
15:09
can make it an origin story for the brand, or
15:11
we could do it around the value and visions and
15:13
kind of make it about the customer and how they
15:15
interact. So there's really two choices you can
15:18
make of how you do a little hero's journey for
15:19
a brand film. I have about seven questions in
15:22
the book that I ask, but I'll really vary those
15:24
questions a lot based on who the client is. So
15:26
I'm not going to be dogmatic about, you know,
15:29
exactly what that is. If it's more of a documentary,
15:31
we could probably just stop with the questions
15:33
themselves because we're going to get an authentic
15:35
answer on the question and do that. But if it's
15:37
a little bit more narrative in the sense where
15:39
they self narrate or we come up with lines or
15:42
it plays out like a drama, we probably are going
15:44
to take those seven questions and build a skirt
15:46
out of what the answers are rather than. doc
15:49
style where it's just you could live with the
15:50
questions. That's probably the part that's always
15:52
the most flexible is probably those seven questions
15:55
at the core of it. But I do think that once you
15:58
start to answer those, you're going to really
16:00
see a little bit of the film emerge. And then
16:02
the art, it's really a springboard to get started.
16:05
When I first went off to film school and first
16:06
studied screenwriting, learned about three act
16:08
plays and learned about the beats and learned
16:10
about just how films work. And I realized there
16:13
is a formula to it. And the formula as a young
16:17
man, felt like such a constraint, but now I realize
16:20
it's really just such a springboard. I mean,
16:22
it's a springboard to get started because you
16:24
don't have to follow it like total dogma or whatever
16:26
it is. You can follow it really loosely. And
16:29
if you have those elements, you can start to
16:30
play with them. You can play with order, you
16:32
can play with pacing, you can play with tone,
16:33
you can play with things, but it'll start to
16:35
take shape. It'll start to strengthen, start
16:36
to peak interest. So it's just so great to start
16:39
to lay things out. And structure to story is
16:41
so important because it's really your contract
16:43
with the audience. Going back to Hollywood, I
16:46
do think that if you have this, you know, 90
16:48
to 120 page script that you write out and you
16:50
hit all these beats and they know exactly where
16:51
those beats are. Whether people know perfect
16:55
screenwriting structure or not, when they buy
16:57
a movie ticket and they sit down in the movie
16:59
theater and the lights go down and they go on
17:01
this journey with these characters, they internally
17:04
know it really, really, really well. And my proof
17:07
of that is you go on Rotten Tomatoes and anytime
17:09
somebody kind of breaks Direction of the plot
17:12
or plot doesn't make sense. So there's holes
17:14
in it. Just read the reviews on rotten tomato
17:16
It's like the audience picks up on that so quickly
17:18
to where I think that the plot and these story
17:20
beats are really your contract with the audience
17:22
If you're gonna take them on a journey, you know,
17:24
you're gonna bring them back home This way where
17:26
they went to the transformation with the character.
17:28
Yeah, I guess the other side of that of that
17:31
coin There's not really even the counter argument
17:34
I mean, I guess the counter argument would be
17:35
just you're doing something really pictorial
17:37
really beautiful and that's all you need it's
17:38
just product shot or something like that. It's
17:41
going to be in a social media feed. So what the
17:43
heck would we make story for? Let's just show
17:46
product. Okay, sure. I'd argue that you still
17:48
have a few elements of story. even when you're
17:51
doing really, really simple advertising like
17:53
commercial, showing the results in the end essentially.
17:56
So you did get to that finale and you should
17:58
have some kind of call to action because you
18:00
are telling your audience what the next step
18:01
is. A brandster is going to get you all the way
18:03
through those pieces and then you definitely
18:05
end with what those kind of final results are.
18:07
I love watching pieces. I'm probably going off
18:09
in a different direction now, but I love just
18:11
reverse engineering things I see in terms of
18:14
story. So if I saw a movie, it's like, how did
18:15
they make that work? Like, what were the parts?
18:18
First of all, what's the challenge that a person
18:20
accepted and went off on their journey. Who stood
18:22
in their way? Was it internal? Was it external?
18:24
What were the forces? What did they overcome?
18:26
What was that darkest moment where there's no
18:28
hope left and they found that little bit of inspiration
18:31
that came from a guru a lot of times. I think
18:33
that's a really important relationship is where
18:35
that guru comes in and gives them that last little
18:37
piece of advice and they go off and they finish
18:39
their journey. because that to me is sort of
18:41
the relationship of advertising. It's where that
18:44
customer has no hope left. Here comes the expert,
18:47
the guru, and then that customer can go off and
18:50
finish their journey. And that's why, you know,
18:53
we talked about that earlier. I'm sure we can
18:54
get way deeper into this, but that's why it's
18:56
really important to sort of see in television
18:58
advertising commercials. that the hero journey
19:01
really is about the customer. It's about the
19:03
customer getting back to their life and getting
19:04
back to that world that they wanted. There's
19:07
a whole lot there. There's so much to talk about.
19:08
I love this podcast. I'm just such a fan of what
19:11
you're doing because you really can talk about
19:13
story all day. And I feel like the more you study
19:16
it, the more you look into the structure of it
19:18
and the more you realize that the hero's journey.
19:21
is like such a foundational way to approach things.
19:25
It opens up this world of creativity to you because
19:27
now you have a starting point. Like now you know
19:29
what you're building upon. The other part of
19:31
movies that I love, something amazing about having
19:33
two hours to let a story reveal itself. It's
19:36
kind of the right amount of time. It's about
19:37
the limit of our attention span, as long as we
19:39
can sit in one place. And it's just emotionally,
19:42
if you toy with people and take them through
19:43
all these things, you really gave them a great
19:45
ride. Just long enough to sort of... Developed
19:48
character just long enough to take people through
19:50
an arc. They don't need a meal break or an air
19:51
mission They can really ride through it, you
19:53
know, the brutalist just won a bunch of awards
19:55
I think they hit three and a half hours, but
19:57
it's really funny to hear people's response about
20:00
movies when they go past this Three -hour mark.
20:03
It's like people are mad at the director And
20:05
I think it kind of plays in a little bit with
20:07
bathroom breaks and meal breaks and how long
20:09
we could sit in one place and things like that
20:11
I bring up the long form because there's so many
20:12
things you can do with sort of arc and character
20:15
development and that second act just becomes
20:18
so drawn out. You really just toy with the audience
20:20
of sort of highs and lows and frustrations and
20:22
people overcoming all these obstacles and setbacks
20:24
and all those things to finally get themselves
20:26
to that transformed person who can take on the
20:29
final showdown, you know, that grand finale at
20:31
the end, whatever it may be, whether it's internal,
20:33
external, gunfight with the bad guys, whatever
20:35
it is in the movies, be all those things. We
20:37
don't get that kind of time frame with content
20:40
online. We just don't have this kind of attention
20:42
spans. No, we don't. And we don't have them in
20:44
TV commercials either. We have to really hit
20:46
the audience with something really, really quickly.
20:49
We almost have to be more like a surgeon or a
20:51
sniper than somebody who goes out with a wider
20:54
spread. So there's luxuries on both ends of it.
20:56
We have new constraints that are kind of hard
20:58
on us. You know, if it's social media and we're
20:59
going to YouTube, I love YouTube, by the way,
21:01
because YouTube just allows for so much optimization
21:04
with an audience you can build both organic and
21:06
paid. It helps feed it into people's Google SEO
21:09
because Google owns YouTube and they transcribe
21:11
all the content that's going to YouTube and they
21:13
help that boost your website ranking. So there's
21:15
things I love about YouTube, but it presents
21:17
kind of challenges and constraints of its own.
21:19
Like if you're doing paid ads, people are going
21:21
to skip that in the first six seconds. So you
21:24
have to get a brand impression and your logo
21:26
out there and some kind of hook all within that
21:28
six seconds to get people to watch any more of
21:30
your message. So you really have to design for
21:33
this. supersonic speed of content consumption
21:37
right now. We have totally different constraints
21:40
that we're under in how we design brand marketing,
21:44
advertising, and then layer the story piece to
21:47
really engage people and get the customer buy
21:49
-in through that story. We really have to write
21:51
by design of all of the platforms now. It's kind
21:55
of an interesting challenge and it just takes
21:57
planning really. Yeah. And it really is different
22:00
across different platforms and different channels,
22:03
100%. Yeah. And you have different audiences
22:05
across those platforms and channels as well.
22:08
Oh, totally. So it's going to be who's out there
22:11
and what do they want to see and what are you
22:13
producing? Yeah. I do have a couple of questions
22:15
I want to throw back out. I had to write them
22:17
down so I didn't forget because I was just mesmerized
22:20
listening to you talk and I was like, whoa, wait
22:22
a minute. I need to ask these questions. I had
22:23
asked earlier about sort of the order and how
22:26
you're basically giving somebody that framework,
22:29
and you even elaborated on that. It doesn't have
22:32
to be rigid. It's just organizing and focusing
22:35
your brain in where you need to go with what
22:38
you need to do. With all of the customers and
22:40
clients that you are dealing with right now,
22:43
what level of maturity are they coming to you
22:46
with? Are they coming to you with, we know exactly
22:51
how we want this thing to look, we have a very
22:54
clear story, or are they coming to you We know
22:58
who we are, but we don't know how to show that.
23:00
We don't know how to express that. What are you
23:02
finding out there? What are you seeing? So it's
23:04
so varied. And I think because of my background.
23:08
You know, I just did this a few months ago. You
23:10
just found me about a month ago. So this content
23:12
that I have out on the web is fresh. You know,
23:14
it is sparking interest. So we're structuring
23:16
some stories for clients right now that we're
23:18
going to go shoot throughout the month. And it's
23:20
really interesting where it comes in. There's
23:22
an element of I want something like that. Here's
23:27
what's happening. That's perfect. I mean, I think
23:29
that's perfect that it comes in kind of early
23:31
and we can kind of build around where they are.
23:35
And then there's another end. Traditionally,
23:36
I'm a DP, I'm a director of photography on set.
23:39
That's what I've done for the last whatever,
23:41
15 years. So in that background, in that world,
23:44
it's extremely varied because you get everybody
23:46
from... You know, an agency who has all of this
23:50
written out, they have a whole campaign, we're
23:51
doing a little piece of a larger campaign, and
23:54
video's not even a standalone. That's what we
23:57
do, yeah. Sure, so you're very familiar with
24:00
that, and video's just kind of slot in and be
24:01
like a component of it all. Where I'm coming
24:04
at this as just sort of like a little boutique,
24:07
bespoke video agency sense where we can kind
24:10
of build up a content journey, think about placement,
24:11
do it all around this video funnel. We're just
24:14
staying in our lane. It's mainly just for you.
24:16
The only thing on top of that we can do is we
24:17
can produce a little bit of self photography
24:19
around the video because it's just sort of organically
24:21
can work in tandem. Besides that, we're really
24:24
staying in that one lane of film content essentially.
24:27
Condensed film is essentially what I'm trying
24:29
to sell. It's so varied with where people come
24:31
in. So if the agency comes in, it's already all
24:33
done. And we're kind of just executing. If a
24:35
client comes to us, it's kind of, you know, a
24:37
smaller business, a little more startup, mom
24:40
and pops local, then we can take them all the
24:42
way through that hole. It's really three steps.
24:44
I think I've talked a little bit about client
24:45
journey mapping got really deep into story, which
24:47
I can talk about forever. We both can. Play the
24:50
Oscar music, can I go on too long? And then the
24:53
third part of course is the placement. It's a
24:55
strategy about what it is you're building and
24:57
you're going back to kind of your client avatar
24:59
and you're looking at platforms for where they
25:01
live and you're getting in front of them with
25:03
lookalike audiences and retargeting and all those
25:05
just amazing tools we have. And that part is
25:07
the hardest part to write in any book because
25:09
it's kind of always evolving of like exactly
25:12
how the tools function online. I mean, it's kind
25:14
of an overall strategy of kind of getting pieces
25:16
in front of it and paid versus organic that seem
25:18
to be kind of foundational for how the web works.
25:20
But I feel like month after month, YouTube offers
25:22
a new feature. Even though you may not have an
25:24
audience on Pinterest, maybe you put some content
25:26
on Pinterest because it back tags your website.
25:28
So there's a little SEO element to like why you'd
25:30
do that. I love YouTube because of how you inherit
25:33
Google's SEO from YouTube. I think I just mentioned
25:36
that a minute ago. So even if somebody's not
25:37
huge on going to those platforms, I'd still suggest
25:41
that people put content on those platforms because
25:43
of what you inherit. The third part of it all
25:45
is that component. And then again, If somebody's
25:47
working with an agency like yours or others,
25:50
you guys are probably doing that first part of
25:53
figuring out who the customer is. You're doing
25:55
that last part of sort of how, you know, yeah,
25:58
it's going to be a place in the strategy. And
26:00
then I'd probably slot into just the filmmaking,
26:02
which really is my lane. So, I mean, that's pretty
26:06
familiar to me and your team, I'm sure too. I've
26:08
had clients who I've had to work with, especially
26:12
like on big events, right? I've had to work with
26:14
people who are sponsoring the event. These big
26:16
companies that are sponsoring the event have
26:18
marketing teams and I'm the marketer for the
26:22
person hosting. I love working with people who
26:24
have marketers because they just make it so easy,
26:28
you know what I mean? You know exactly what the
26:29
expectations are. It's a lot less work and they're
26:32
willing to do all the work. So, but I am a strong,
26:35
strong, strong believer in keep the main thing,
26:38
the main thing. Don't try to be something you're
26:41
not. I know what my limitations are. I'm hiring
26:44
you. to do the filming because you're the expert,
26:49
right? When I deal with folks who don't understand
26:52
the value of that and think, oh, I can DIY it.
26:55
It's like if you do what you've done, you'll
26:57
get what you get, right? And do you have a preference?
27:00
Do you prefer to work with the mom and pop and
27:02
start from the ground up, or do you find a value
27:04
in working with like an agency set up? You ask
27:06
such a good question. One of the things I've
27:08
loved about it all is just the variety of everything.
27:10
Where if you really get stuck in one direction
27:11
for too long, it's like the grass is always greener
27:13
and it's great to go shipped around. I think
27:15
my preference is really people committed to the
27:18
process and true collaborators, whoever it is.
27:21
It's such a dance and such a collaboration to
27:23
do a film project where You know, we really have
27:27
to just meet a client where they are, whether
27:28
it be the agency or the end client, and build
27:31
from there. It's interesting you talked about
27:33
live events because when I wrote the book and
27:34
I called it The Mic Drop Method, I was kind of
27:36
looking at the films that the pharmaceutical
27:39
industry was making at the moment. where they
27:41
needed to sort of introduce any drug around a
27:44
customer story. And it might play it like a big
27:46
sales event. I got to see a few of those as a
27:49
photographer. Kind of a walkout video almost
27:51
and play this thing ahead of time before people
27:53
kind of take the stage of that light event. It's
27:55
pep rally video essentially. So when I saw that,
27:57
I was like, that's really a great use case for
28:00
somebody could do a short form and just see his
28:02
journey and have just total buy -in and it becomes
28:03
a pep rally video that goes up. So when I came
28:06
up with the name for the book, The Mic Drop Method,
28:08
I was really thinking about that kind of live
28:10
event space. And then I was also kind of thinking
28:12
about the parallel of my own life of, you know,
28:15
wanting to be an across band, wanting to be a
28:16
rock and roller, but I ended up kind of a filmmaker
28:18
instead. No regrets. I go to bed too early to
28:21
be a rock and roller. So, you know. Yeah. The
28:24
older we get. You know, it's like, um, that name
28:27
kind of came out of that space. I wanted to make
28:30
that roadmap just out of the pain point of having
28:33
to run a video production company for so many
28:34
years where smaller brands, startups would come
28:37
to me who didn't have an agency in between us.
28:40
And they'd say, we need a video. Well, what's
28:42
a video about? Well, it's our history. Are you
28:44
ready to tell it? Yeah, come up next Friday with
28:46
a crew. What video are we making? Here we are.
28:48
Here's our crew. Like, what video are we making?
28:50
And then I'd get home to the agony of going,
28:52
there's nothing to cut. Like, we don't have a
28:54
story here. What is the story? You know, I was
28:57
trying to do that discovery call and I just realized
28:59
I needed to sit down and write out. a method
29:01
that kind of gets people there and a little bit
29:04
of a thing. And I just put it out there, you
29:06
know, I'll share with anybody of what my methodology
29:08
is. I hope people can use it. The things I'm
29:10
doing aren't so revolutionary. It's not so different
29:13
than what an agency would do. It's just, I'm
29:15
a little bit more bespoke where we can kind of
29:16
do it as a video production company and offer
29:18
people as far as reaches video can go these days,
29:21
which is. pretty darn good. I mean, it's a great
29:23
time to be putting video out there in the world.
29:24
So that's where I come from. It wasn't like I
29:26
was trying to just exclusively work with small
29:29
brands or small companies that needed to go through
29:30
the whole thing. I just want to have a plan for
29:33
when somebody wants to do something is here's
29:35
the process. Here's how we can kind of start
29:37
to screenwrite around your service offering out
29:40
there in the world, championing your vision,
29:43
build it up and then put it all over the web
29:44
to point back at what that story is. And that's
29:46
my whole methodology for what I want to offer
29:49
people. So you wrote this book. I'm so glad I
29:52
wrote up a script for this podcast, because we've
29:53
just basically thrown the whole script out the
29:55
window, which is great, even better. So you wrote
29:57
this e -book, and you called it The Mic Drop
30:00
Method. In the e -book, I was reading the e -book,
30:02
and in the back, you were laying out these steps
30:04
of how to get there. And you had, you want to
30:07
end with that mic drop moment. Can you share
30:10
an example of a project maybe that you worked
30:13
on recently? What was the mic drop moment in
30:16
it? That's a great question. And you're asking
30:18
a difficult question. I think the easiest example
30:20
that comes to me is because, you know, in tandem
30:22
with this book, I did my brand story. And what
30:25
I ended with, and I told the story here on this
30:27
podcast, what I ended with was I got a little
30:30
bit more into acting in the video where today
30:31
I talked a little bit about just the stories
30:33
that my mom read to me. But I was always like
30:35
a little performer and wanted to put on little
30:37
shows to make her laugh. And that went in tandem
30:40
with sort of like reading stories as a kid. But
30:42
I went from trying to make my mom laugh. to shaping
30:45
the visuals of global brands. This is the story
30:47
that brought me here. And now I'm here to help
30:50
you tell yours. So I combined it into two to
30:52
where it's sort of, it's the summary of my story
30:55
going into the call to action of how I want to
30:58
help other people. And that's how I used it in
31:00
mine. I mean, there's so many ways to do. a mic
31:03
drop moment that I think it's mainly going to
31:05
be, I'm talking really broadly here, but I think
31:07
it's mainly going to be kind of a tie back and
31:09
a tangible to what your brand's story and offering
31:12
is and what makes you so different and set apart
31:15
in your marketplace and somehow tie that into
31:18
the call to action. They can be independent of
31:21
each other. One can come before the other, but
31:23
I do think that it's sort of related to kind
31:24
of summarize and engage and captivate the audience
31:28
and just really set yourself and your brand and
31:30
your offer apart from everybody else out there,
31:33
which is the whole reason you're telling a story.
31:34
Because it's the resonance with the audience
31:37
and it's what sets you apart. And that's what
31:39
you really get out of telling a true and authentic
31:41
story. You just said it. People can get very
31:44
boxed in with, well, what's the mic drop moment?
31:47
What is it? And what you're saying is it's really
31:50
about the feeling you've conveyed, the takeaway
31:54
that the audience just got about you. That is
31:58
that mic drop moment, isn't it? Let me put it
32:00
a different way. Maybe I need to expand on this,
32:02
Ali, because you have such a good question there.
32:05
But I think somebody should look at it as an
32:06
opportunity to say what they really want to say,
32:09
or an opportunity to say something really authentic,
32:10
an opportunity to say something that they don't
32:12
always get a chance to put out there and really
32:15
sell their vision, their passion, their values.
32:18
So whatever piece it is that they're going to
32:21
put in with their company offer or why they built
32:23
the company that they built or whatever this
32:24
piece is that they have to communicate. So it's
32:27
really an opportunity to kind of like closing
32:30
thoughts in a sense, but drive it home with it.
32:32
Take it as an opportunity to kind of sign off.
32:34
So it's really about the authenticity. And I
32:38
find that when I'm working with the clients,
32:41
sometimes they sort of have this promotional
32:45
speak in the vision. It takes work sometimes
32:48
to kind of direct them down the story path. That's
32:51
fine. We can get to the promo part of it. That's
32:54
fine. But let's get authentic here. Let's get
32:57
raw. Let's talk about who you really are. Because
33:01
people have that mindset of sell, sell, sell.
33:04
And they don't always make the connection between
33:07
sell and story. And how big story is to really
33:12
closing that deal and making a difference. I
33:15
think sometimes people get caught up when you
33:16
say, oh, make story makes a difference. They
33:18
think it's fluff. but it isn't. It's such a powerful,
33:21
impactful tool. Yeah. It really is the visions
33:24
and the values are really the voice in that story.
33:27
So if you can kind of choose after choose a voice,
33:30
it's going to be around vision and value. Yes.
33:32
You really get a chance to champion what it is
33:34
you're all about and why you did it and how hard
33:35
it was to get there too, because there's probably
33:38
barriers for entry in anything that anybody does.
33:41
You know, in places where I think I've been doing
33:42
this 20 years, depends how I count, it's probably
33:44
more than that now. So I've been doing this 21
33:47
years professionally and you know, maybe I said
33:49
a little earlier in school. So there's websites
33:51
I've been on for 25 years now in this industry.
33:54
And I feel like I'm just getting started, but
33:55
it's like the barrier for entry now isn't really
33:58
the equipment. It isn't really that Hollywood
34:00
studio. It isn't really that, you know, in some
34:02
ways my dream was fulfilled, but now you can
34:04
go out and make films on your own and you can,
34:06
but the barrier for entry is really just. having
34:08
a plan and having a structure and really having
34:10
a strategy that works. It's not so much about
34:13
the cameras or the equipment or the anything
34:15
anymore with the kind of visual video film storytelling
34:19
that I'm doing. So when you tell your own story,
34:22
it's like, those trials and tribulations and
34:24
those struggles that you've overcome and the
34:26
tours you knocked on and the years it took to
34:28
get to where you are. It's so important for people
34:30
to hear that because you've put work in, this
34:33
is your chance to kind of humble brag a little
34:34
bit, your work and what it took to get to where
34:37
you are. I mean, anybody who brings a product
34:39
to market, pulled off a minor miracle. It's not
34:41
easy to do. Champion the vision. and the values
34:45
that it took to get that product to the market
34:47
and the problems you're going to solve. And you'll
34:49
get a tremendous amount of buy -in from the audience
34:51
through that. And that's brand loyalty. That's
34:53
what people want in advertising in the end. They're
34:57
probably quick to look at you for conversions
34:58
to get people to kind of click and buy and show
35:01
the kind of the incident results. The story is
35:04
just so important to build upon. You need that
35:06
quality content, though. I mean, that's so important.
35:08
You can have the story. But there's so much power
35:12
in having a visual story. I mean, we're visual
35:15
creatures. We live in a visual world, and we're
35:17
visual marketers now. I mean, video is king,
35:21
you know? I mean, I could tell you from all of
35:24
the social media management that I do for all
35:26
of my clients, we get the most engagement with
35:29
video. Yes, we have all kinds of fun tools with
35:31
the stills, the grids, and all of that other
35:34
stuff, and really having dramatic imagery that's
35:38
not AI -created and it's... real and it's really
35:42
makes a connection. But video is king. And being
35:45
able to tell your story through that lens, literally,
35:49
is really how it's gonna make a difference. It's
35:53
gonna make a difference to your bottom line.
35:54
It's gonna make a difference to your brand loyalty.
35:57
I mean, I'm a brand purist. I drive my clients
36:00
crazy because I'm like, no, that's not on brand.
36:02
That's not on brand. That's not on brand. And
36:05
it drives them nuts. But it's like, who are they
36:07
looking at? If you don't stay on brand, your
36:10
customers don't know who you're talking to. You
36:12
brought up so many interesting things there.
36:14
I'm in total agreement, first of all. It's also
36:16
just a great thing to go to, to tell your story,
36:19
especially if it's a value or vision -based story.
36:21
Because you tell that story, you also get kind
36:24
of a buy -in from your collaborators, whether
36:27
those are your employees, whoever it is, your
36:29
allies in business. Because you're telling your
36:31
value and your vision, and there's just so much
36:33
buy -in around that, that I found it was a great
36:35
opportunity. You know, I did this piece, Launching
36:37
the e -book where I kind of did the e -book put
36:39
it out there to just show my methodology and
36:41
tell people what I want to do for them In tandem
36:43
with that. I did my own story and somebody came
36:46
to me and said tell your stories story. I'm just
36:48
a guy who does this. Tell your story. I didn't
36:50
have a story. What do you mean I didn't have
36:51
my story? You have a story. Tell your story.
36:54
And I said, okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.
36:56
And then I started going through kind of these
36:58
steps as, you know, like, you have a story. What
37:00
do you know? So sometimes it's sort of the self
37:02
-awareness where we don't think about our own
37:05
likes as sort of a story that unfolded. We just
37:07
think, well, we did this a long time ago up here,
37:09
you know, A to B, you kind of think, because
37:11
I think that's how our mind thinks. But Story
37:13
is so important because it's how the audience
37:15
sees us. And the audience wants to sort of see
37:17
this laid out. They want to see the vision, the
37:20
dedication, the struggle, the different kinds
37:23
of conflicts that you overcame to kind of get
37:25
this product to market or get your skill set
37:28
to where it needs to be or how you learned what
37:29
this is. And now you've gone through the fire.
37:32
You've come out the other side transformed. and
37:34
here's the product or service that you're offering.
37:37
So now you stand as that guide or that guru or
37:39
that expert who's gone through the hero's journey.
37:42
So here you are in this elevated state to offer
37:45
your expertise to the world. And that story is
37:48
such an important key element to build upon.
37:51
The rest of your life, of your company life or
37:53
client life or product offer life, if you were
37:55
to just show that transformation of where the
37:58
client lives now that they've had it, you know,
38:00
A to B kind of a before and after sort of scenario,
38:03
that's great. But the transformations imply there.
38:06
And you can always build that and just show the
38:09
outcome from here to eternity with a million
38:12
different use cases, a million different customer
38:14
journey stories, whether you do them in length
38:15
or short, but building upon kind of your own
38:18
story and building upon an origin and building
38:21
upon how you see that product or service better,
38:24
the world is just such an important thing to
38:26
offer and to build around. I mean, you know,
38:28
we're right here having this conversation that
38:30
we can probably go on. for hours about any piece
38:32
of that. I know. Unfortunately, we can't go on
38:35
any longer. Just thank you for being our guest.
38:37
Thank you for your story. Thank you for all your
38:39
insight. It's just been such a pleasure having
38:42
you on the show. So thank you for being here.
38:44
Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of the show.
38:46
So it's really my pleasure and an honor to be
38:48
on here. It's kind of kindred spirits and it's
38:51
a great topic. Thank you. And to our listeners,
39:05
whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios
39:07
in Bedford, Massachusetts or across the globe
39:09
on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple Podcasts
39:13
or Amazon Prime, thanks for listening. We hope
39:16
you enjoyed the episode and we'll see you next
39:18
time. Happy Storytelling!