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READING ROOM OCT 24 · The Reading Room

0:00
Speaker 1: Babe. Right.
0:21
Speaker 2: Well, Hello, Hello, we are back with the reading room.
0:25
It's a pleasure to be back. I hope I can
0:27
remember the book. So I'm here, Christ, I'm here with Barry,
0:30
Hello and Sue. Sue are you there?
0:34
Speaker 1: I'm here, Hi.
0:35
Speaker 2: It's great to be back. We haven't been back for
0:38
a while, have we? Because I got an injury and
0:41
then everything went crazy. So I hope we can remember
0:45
the book. Barry, how many times did you read it?
0:48
Speaker 3: Only the ones?
0:49
Speaker 2: Only the ones this time? How many times did you
0:52
read it? Sue? Just the ones will be too. But
0:55
I have been kind of researching it. I actually watched
0:58
the film as well.
0:59
Speaker 4: I did.
1:00
Speaker 2: Did you did you have to pay for it? I
1:01
think you did. I think it was a paid one.
1:03
I don't mind if it's a good film, But I
1:05
bet you didn't watch the film? Did you know your
1:09
proper literature? Aren't you literature? And of course, because it's
1:14
near Souren or Halloween, sus She's agreed to read some
1:20
Halloween poetry out, haven't You, which is absolutely brilliant. And
1:28
we also have a guest, Amal, who's going to talk
1:31
about his book. So that's very exciting. So let's just
1:34
start off. The book was actually The Honorary Consule, Yeah,
1:40
Graham Green, And it was a novel that was published
1:43
in nineteen seventy three, but it's set in the Dirty
1:49
War of Argentina in the early nineteen seventies. I think
1:53
it was your choice, wasn't it very It was?
1:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do apologize for that.
1:58
Speaker 5: Really, you do?
1:59
Speaker 2: You interesting son? You can start off? Then what did
2:02
you think? I mean?
2:04
Speaker 3: I thought it was well written. I mean, he's undoubtedly
2:06
a good writer, and I really didn't like the setting
2:12
of it, I suppose, I mean it was you know,
2:15
it was an interesting subject, but I didn't like if
2:18
you like the mores of the time, and I found them,
2:21
you know that it wasn't something I really wanted to
2:24
read about. What do you mean the morays at the time, Well,
2:27
it was, I mean, without going into sort of too
2:31
much detail at the start, you know, I think that
2:35
the principle is that you know, there's that the Honorary
2:39
Console who's just sort of drinks a lot, and then
2:42
there's a there's a doctor who is without morals, I
2:47
would think, and and the key to it, the way
2:52
that it's set is around two of them sort of
2:58
falling in love with a with a seventeen year old
3:01
girl from a brothel. So I mean, bearing in mind
3:06
it was the early nineteen seventies. It horrified me to
3:10
think that that was what went on in South American
3:14
cities between civilized people.
3:16
Speaker 2: So okay, interesting, So what's your take?
3:21
Speaker 1: Okay? I enjoyed a christ I'm a great fan of
3:25
Glenn Green, and I was re looking forward to reading
3:28
the book. And I have to say a point to
3:32
your child. I took a plan of glow with the Alevel,
3:37
and I found it in many ways it's very similar.
3:41
I don't think playing Green churches anything. His nineteen and
3:48
his characters fictions, and I thought it caught a moment
3:52
in time. I thought the characters were wonderfully created. You know,
3:59
you've got a Humberly, she's the best elderly English teacher
4:03
studio Savadera. I've forgotten like that. He's still cleaning on
4:07
to his past successes. And of course you only come
4:11
to Charles thought himself. And I thought that the world
4:16
I agree with very on the tone of the world,
4:18
which we have a bit. But I thought that the
4:22
characters were very distinctive, and we're just rubbing along in
4:26
a subble like existence. And I do agree with the
4:31
doctor Clark. From the beginning I wanted to like him,
4:36
and the more the book went on, the less and
4:40
less I liked him. So I thought it was a
4:45
good unraveling of the character.
4:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see, I thought it was actually genius. It
4:53
got me into Graham Green and I thought, what a story.
4:55
And the fact that the entwining of like the woman
5:00
and you know who was pregnant and then and then
5:04
the fact that they picked the wrong person to kidnap
5:08
was just genius.
5:10
Speaker 1: But that was what I when I sort of I
5:14
enjoyed the fact that the humor in it, that the
5:19
whole book is based on something that went disterly wrong.
5:25
And there is a film of Gregory Peck and it's
5:29
about the man who's kidnapped, and it's actually you'll be
5:34
will pay his Randsom said, I'm glad I've got rid
5:39
of him. At the ends, up on a bridge robern
5:43
Iagara falls in Norman Brands, near the Canada, no New York,
5:47
and the two has suceeeded him and Nobby will help him.
5:51
And in a way it was like if they kidnapped
5:53
the wrong person because nobody wanted him back, and he
5:56
reminded me of that, having kidnapped the wrong man, and
6:00
what do we do?
6:01
Speaker 2: I know, Yeah, I thought it was really good about
6:05
the story.
6:08
Speaker 1: I thought it was beautifully plotted.
6:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I felt it was lightened by the humor, Yeah,
6:16
because they're trying to write that way was trying to
6:19
write a letter. And then about the man that knew
6:22
all about Railway's Bloodshaw, which of course is the reference
6:26
to Bradshaw's Railway guys.
6:27
Speaker 1: So I thought there's a lot of speaker humor in
6:29
the explightened the tone of it, which I think is
6:33
graay and green is tone and texture.
6:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just yeah, I thought it was amazing and
6:39
the fact that, you know, with the characters like the
6:41
part feel so English, but it's never set a foot
6:44
in England, you know, and he's a quintessential kind of Englishman.
6:51
And just yeah, back to you, Barry, anymore you can
6:56
add to it. We have got an hour well you.
6:59
Speaker 3: Know, I mean I was the you you've both enjoyed
7:03
it more more than I did. Interesting, Yeah, I suppose
7:08
I think that, you know, obviously, when when when we
7:14
talk about these books like this, you know, we we
7:16
sort of give all the plots spoilers away really for
7:19
anybody else who's who's reading it. But I think that
7:24
you know, the idea that in a because I mean,
7:26
it's it's set in a in the north of Argentina
7:31
on a river across from from Paraguay, and the doctor
7:37
his father had sort of either abandoned them all or
7:41
left them and was a sort of a revolutionary of sorts.
7:48
And so the doctor had gone to Argentina with his mother,
7:52
and so he found himself in the town adjacent to
7:56
the river, which was opposite sort of Paraguay, and sort
8:01
of wondering what if, you know, his father had done.
8:03
And you know, he obviously had a strange relationship with
8:07
his father. But to go back to what I was
8:10
saying at the start, you know it was like a
8:13
sort of a little gang of englishmen, if you like.
8:20
And it just seemed so colonial to me that I
8:24
found it distasteful. You know, so just because it was written,
8:28
you know, especially seen as it was written in the
8:30
nineteen seventies. I remember the nineteen seventies vividly, you know,
8:34
the idea that that was that was still how life
8:37
was was lived in South America, as I say, I
8:42
found fairly horrifying. So I didn't enjoy the idea of
8:46
the aspect of the of the of the plot, even though,
8:50
to be fair nailing my colors to the mask, I'm
8:53
very much in favor of Marxist revolutionaries in South America.
8:57
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I think it still happens now. Isn't
9:00
that young girls going with older men for security. If
9:04
you go to Thailand, you see it everywhere. Really it
9:06
didn't that's changed, I think.
9:08
Speaker 3: I think that, yeah, but that's not all men. This
9:10
is one of the things. I think this is wrong.
9:13
You know, the idea that you know that he was
9:15
he was a he was a doctor, you know, and
9:17
taking the hippocratic oath and on those things. First of all,
9:21
you know, it was seen to be the thing that
9:24
they all did, you know, acceptable premise that they all
9:28
visited the brothel and in the case of the Console
9:33
and the doctor sort of falling for the same girl,
9:38
so that then the Console marries her, and the first
9:42
time that the doctor sees him sees her the next day,
9:47
he buys her a pair of sunglasses and ends up
9:50
sleeping with her. I just I just found it. I mean,
9:52
I'm not I'm not a prude. I just thought that
9:54
the morality of the whole process was just appalling, you know, So,
10:00
so what do you think?
10:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it just reflects the time. It's not right,
10:06
and it's not and it's distasteful, but I think it
10:11
was part of the society. And I think the fact
10:17
that it's written in a matter of fact way that
10:21
on Monday he did this, and on Tuesday about the sunglasses,
10:24
and on Wednesday, I think that makes it more shocking
10:28
because it's matter of fact, so it's not out of
10:31
place in this world. It's quite acceptable in this world.
10:36
And anyway, it was a bit like the Handmade and
10:38
Tail where there was a secret place where everybody went,
10:43
which was a brusthel and it reminded me of that
10:46
that within a society there will always be this shadowy
10:50
world that exists. I think that with the characters, I
10:58
think that they are well for true and each want
11:01
is basically incredibly selfish. I was looking for a character
11:06
to like, and I'm afraid I couldn't find one. Yeah,
11:10
but that doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy the book
11:14
because it was it was sort of it was the
11:17
raw side of people if you like, and it wasn't
11:20
sugar coated, and each want was on their own path.
11:26
I did like the beginning where the book has gotten
11:30
without any dialogue at all, which is a gambling a
11:34
gun itself, because it's it takes you into just it's
11:40
just the sorts of plot, and the more you get
11:44
to know the man, the more the more is to
11:48
colors is revealed. And I think there's a lot of
11:50
surprises in there which I won't reveal, but it leads,
11:56
it leads the reader to an intricate plot, and I
11:59
think it was suspense to the end of the book
12:02
because you never quite sure who's up to rot from
12:06
what they're doing.
12:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. It's interesting because I actually really
12:11
did enjoy it, and I got into Graham Green and
12:14
I ended up watching The Quiet American and that's quite
12:20
a similar love triangle he does that he kind of
12:24
Graham Green seems to do these love triangles, which I
12:27
thought was a fascinating thing, really looking into emotions, you know,
12:32
as a male writer. He seemed to look into the
12:36
love and the emotion emotional part of the human nature.
12:40
I really enjoyed that because I thought grain Green it's
12:42
going to be spies and kind of a James Bondie
12:46
type thing. But I was, actually.
12:50
Speaker 4: I was.
12:51
Speaker 2: It was a different novel from what I expected, really,
12:54
and that's why I enjoyed it. Barry, can you add
12:56
anything to.
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Speaker 3: That, No, I think, you know, had it been more
12:59
I was hoping that it might have been more spies.
13:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I thought it would be.
13:03
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, because I mean, even the
13:06
idea of a long love triangle is a bit far
13:09
fet straally, I don't know whether the character as painted
13:13
by Gream of Clara is able to love, you know.
13:15
That was that was part of the of the issue
13:19
I think with him, and that he found himself unable
13:24
to love and in fact jealous of the honorary Consul who,
13:27
despite the forty year age difference, was found that he
13:31
was in a position to love Clara. But like I say,
13:37
at the risk of all the all the plot spoilers,
13:40
you know, I mean, obviously Clara is expecting a baby
13:45
and plaws the father, so you know, again, it all
13:51
sort of happened very very quickly, and in the idea
13:56
that there was like sort of that sort of friendship
13:59
or link between the people was very very flimsy, I thought,
14:03
partly because I think that, as soon mentioned, you know,
14:07
it's written in the third person, so basically the writer
14:12
can bring in anything that they want and describe any
14:14
scenario in order to elucidate the plot in some way,
14:20
whereas you know, say, for instance, when we were reading Conrad,
14:24
when it's written in the first person, you're basically only
14:27
seeing what that person sees and seeing it from their perspective,
14:32
And to some degree it might have I mean not
14:36
that I'm wanting to suggest to Graham Green how to write,
14:40
but I think that I probably would have preferred it
14:43
to have been written in the first person from one
14:45
of the protagonists.
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Speaker 2: You know, interesting, what do you think?
14:48
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I know where there it's coming from.
14:53
So I felt with it been in the third person,
14:58
I've got to know more of the characters and more
15:02
of the character's motives. But I do take the point
15:07
that the book unwinds itself relatively slowly, but so much
15:12
happens within a few days, and I think that's down
15:16
to like the clever plotting and a knife for details
15:19
that graem Green gives us the observation of people, and
15:24
I felt that I was looking for a good character basically,
15:29
and you would think, oh, well they're doing this and
15:32
they're they're being very kind or whatever. But there was
15:34
always an ulterior motive. There was always something for that
15:39
person in whatever they did. Yeah, and I found that
15:46
I found it different from other books because there wasn't
15:50
a person I could say I actually liked.
15:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I have to say as well. I
15:56
know it's sort of fairly inadmissible at this stage, you know,
15:59
but I thought the film was awful as well.
16:02
Speaker 2: I thought the film was awful absolutely.
16:06
Speaker 3: I mean I found really, I mean, Richard Gere was
16:09
just awful.
16:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I thought, I mean, The Quiet American was
16:14
a good film. That's you know, the Graham Green and
16:17
that had my name is Michael Kaine, that's Michael cain
16:20
In and Brendan Fraser, And I thought that was it
16:23
was a good film as well. I didn't read the
16:25
book on that, but it was there were similarities to
16:28
both of the novels. I like when when Clara, when
16:33
it's revealed the father of Clara's baby, I was quite shocked.
16:37
I thought that was a good plot twister. Really. I
16:40
just didn't think that was going to happen that way
16:42
in the way, and then when he finds how he
16:44
finds out as well when he's in captivity and then
16:47
he overhears. I just think everything fitted into place a
16:52
bit like a Dickens novel for me. That was in
16:54
a way, everything seemed to fit into place, and all
16:56
the communications with all the different characters and the way
17:00
they all, it all just melted into one big plot, really, yeh,
17:06
one big scenario. I thought it was very very clever.
17:11
Speaker 3: He was able to do that by using that third
17:14
party narrative. And as much as you know, he would
17:19
suggest that, you know, Plat wasn't particularly good at decision making,
17:24
you know, like a throw a something in like that,
17:27
you know, which which gives you a clue that further
17:29
down the line is going to struggle to make a decision,
17:31
you know. And I think that is part of It's
17:35
a bit like you know, seeing a story unfold as
17:39
a storyteller and telling all the bits of it. Whereas
17:43
like I said before, you know, if it was just
17:46
told from one person's perspective, or even from each person's perspective,
17:51
then it would it would unfold differently.
17:53
Speaker 4: You know.
17:54
Speaker 3: It's it's nice maybe when you're telling a tale, to
17:57
know what all of the protagonists to thinking. But that's
18:02
not really how things work, is it. You know, you're
18:05
always a bit in the dark because you only see
18:07
your perspective.
18:08
Speaker 2: Have yet read any other of Graham Green's bright Brightened Rock?
18:15
Speaker 3: A very long time ago, which I didn't really I
18:18
didn't really take to either.
18:20
Speaker 2: It was there a love triangle in that I can't remember.
18:23
Speaker 3: Hey, I couldn't really honestly remember what the plot was
18:26
to be.
18:27
Speaker 2: So have you ever read any Graham Green before?
18:29
Speaker 4: Oh?
18:30
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, as I said, I did. I did The
18:33
Pound of the Glory the A level, which is not
18:36
oh yes, you thought, and that is again set in
18:40
South America. But I also read Brightened Rock, and I
18:43
think the end of Brightened Rock is absolutely shocking. I
18:49
really do he to beleave you. It's a bit like
18:52
The Pound of Glory. He just leaves you with wrong
18:54
life and the rest of the horror of the story
18:59
is left in your in your imagination and you go,
19:04
oh wow. And I think that the road in Brighton
19:09
Rock is a very similar person to Clara.
19:13
Speaker 5: Okay, a woman trapped.
19:15
Speaker 1: A woman's trapped and trying to survive, but I did
19:20
not as the latest Brighton Rock som but the one
19:22
with Richard Attenborough has Pinky and he was he was
19:26
absolutely amazing, but they were in the end.
19:29
Speaker 2: So there's a film of Brighton Rock.
19:31
Speaker 1: Yes, completely ruined the end of the film. There's a
19:35
more modern version, but the original one with rich Attenborough's
19:41
Pinky was brilliant black and white. But in some ways
19:44
it's more chilling because it's black and white. Okay, But
19:48
the end in the book when I first read it
19:51
was just like, oh wow. I won't say anymore because
19:55
if you've not read the book, it will give it away.
19:57
But the film that doesn't leave you with suspended horror,
20:01
oh okay, dilutes it, and to me it's one of
20:06
a good film. So and I've seen Travels with My
20:12
Aunt On as a play and that was so funny.
20:16
It's so hilarious. And again it's set in South America,
20:20
so he very much examined the culture, all the various
20:24
cultures of South America. I did with the unreconsole like
20:33
the fact that he's readied you from the past, taking
20:38
you to the present to find the future for all
20:41
these characters, and all the way through, I'm thinking this
20:44
isn't going to be a happy future for everyone. If
20:47
anybody comes down to this as any future whatsoever that
20:51
they wanted, it's going to be a bit of a mixical.
20:54
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well the only person that was happy really
20:57
in the end was the Honorary Council, wasn't it He
21:01
got he had the baby, well they had he had
21:04
the baby with Clara, but they ended up calling it Eduardo, which.
21:08
Speaker 1: I think everything else was kind of you know, the
21:11
two kidntsters, you know, the two misfits, you know, yeah,
21:15
the Queeno and they were hiding to know where basic,
21:21
but there was I don't know, I think that sometimes
21:23
the primary grand Queen that even the simplest things sinister undertone. Yes,
21:30
wonder which way it's going to go?
21:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Barry, Have you got anything else to add
21:35
to your opinion of the book?
21:40
Speaker 4: Yeah?
21:41
Speaker 3: You know, I, as I said when I've had when
21:44
I first started, you know, I thought that it was
21:45
well written. I mean, you know, this is undoubtedly a
21:49
talented writer, and he can he can tell a story,
21:51
you know, so which is not to be sniffed at
21:54
by any stretch of the imagination. But I think that,
22:00
as I said, the whole sort of. I mean, I
22:04
think there's from me there was more to it, you know,
22:08
or there could have been a lot more to the
22:10
to the story, because I mean, one of the aspects
22:13
of it is that, you know, at that time Argentina
22:16
was sort of moving away from the UK and the
22:20
US involvement, you know, and the fact that there is
22:24
massive United States involvement in South America and South American
22:29
politics and has been ever since, you know, is an
22:32
interesting topic, I think, you know, and to some extent,
22:37
I felt that that could have been explored more, and
22:40
so it was obviously looked at from a particular perspective
22:45
and still sort of maintaining that old colonialism of the
22:49
UK being the good guys, I think, you know, despite
22:52
the fact that they sort of cast the honor reconsolar
22:55
drift and they weren't really bothered whether he was rescued
22:58
or not.
22:58
Speaker 2: I know, that was hilarious. And I think Graham Green
23:01
for me, as I don't know him at all and
23:03
I haven't really read any biographies, but I think he's
23:07
probably very similar to those characters. I'd imagine he would
23:10
attend Brothels. I'm just just kind of, you know, my opinion,
23:13
I think he would be kind of quite a British
23:16
person in those scenarios.
23:18
Speaker 3: I hate to think that that's what a British person is.
23:21
Speaker 2: Well back in the day, they were they weren't they,
23:23
you know about world.
23:24
Speaker 3: In the nineteen seventies. I don't think so, you know,
23:26
I mean, you know, like I said, maybe in a colonial.
23:30
Speaker 2: In a colonial sense, that's what I meant to.
23:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, not in this country.
23:34
Speaker 2: But you still get all those, you know, people who
23:36
are living abroad. You just have these what I think,
23:38
any of the stories of them just being a little
23:40
bit too confident in you know, and what they like.
23:47
It could be wrong. But for me, having read, having
23:50
seen the film of the Quiet American and read this book,
23:55
I feel like he knew a lot about people living.
23:58
Diplomats and ex pants living abroad could be wrong. So
24:03
what about you? Anymore to add before we go on
24:06
to other things.
24:08
Speaker 1: Well, I just I really then was supplied by the ending.
24:13
But I really enjoyed the book, and I really enjoyed
24:17
a peep into another world. And I think I thought
24:20
about what I was doing in nineteen seventy three and
24:24
the contrast in nineteen seventy three. This was happening there,
24:28
and I was at this stage in my life here,
24:33
and it did make me think about the choices in life.
24:37
Sometimes I depend on where you were born.
24:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really really good point.
24:44
Speaker 1: I had been Clara, you know, brawn into that situation,
24:50
what would what would I do? You know? And if
24:54
she would bor into my situation, what would she do?
24:56
Speaker 2: Yeah?
24:57
Speaker 1: Sometimes we're molded by what we're allowed to do, not
25:02
what we can do, but what we're allowed to do.
25:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, very interesting point. Out of ten, what would you
25:08
give it, Sue?
25:09
Speaker 1: I would give it eight eight.
25:11
Speaker 3: Barry probably six, I would think.
25:15
Speaker 2: I think i'd give it nine nine out of ten.
25:17
I know I did. I did really enjoy it. I
25:19
didn't think I would, but I did really enjoy it. Okay, So, Sue,
25:24
are you able to read us some of your poetry
25:28
to commemorate.
25:29
Speaker 1: I've got two Halloween related poems. The first one is
25:36
actually it's called The Window Riches Roby. I'll just give
25:41
it a little background Christian. This is based on a true
25:46
story and Isabella Roby was born in Windle, which was
25:52
which is now part of Santerin, and she was tried
25:55
and hanged with the language which she wasn't one of
25:58
them all time. She name is one of the language
26:02
of riches. But she just happened to be tried and
26:05
hanged on the same day as the you know, the
26:09
famous Bankish of witches and her crimes. The fact she
26:13
didn't get on with her god daughter's husband and they
26:18
were very odds with each other. Now today it would
26:22
be called I didn't say, you know, a domestic art,
26:25
he's upstically get on with someone. But Peter Chadock did
26:31
say at one point that she was a witch, and
26:35
that was enough to put her into to be examined
26:40
by the local magistrate who was Thomas Gerard, and no
26:43
relation to meet, relation to me, and enough to Lancaster
26:51
Castle for the tribe the interest. The interesting thing about
26:55
it is that in those days the defendants could have
26:59
no defense wow speak for them at all. It was
27:02
just pure prosecution and they were hanged the following day,
27:07
so there was no such things and appeal. The other
27:11
witches to be hanged were accused of actually killing someone,
27:17
causing someone's death. She wasn't, but she was still hanged.
27:22
And another interesting fact is that the appeal of the
27:25
Witchcraft Act the rather guess Christ when you think it was.
27:31
Speaker 2: And Verry as well nineteen sixty seven.
27:35
Speaker 5: Nineteen fifty one crazy.
27:38
Speaker 1: The last one to be to be held under this
27:41
was a medium and her name was she was a
27:45
nickname was Melish Hell. And she sort of communicated something
27:50
which was supposed to be put a secret during the war.
27:53
And they didn't believe. They didn't know she was psying it,
27:56
but they knew she was getting getting information from some work.
28:00
So they stay gilder under which pressed out of the war.
28:05
So but Isabella Roby. This poem is about her night
28:11
in the cell. This watch is taken out in hand,
28:17
and it's called the wind, which Isabelle Roby. When darkness
28:22
falls and day is mapped away. Some say I take
28:26
rain shapes and appear in a thousand guises, the stalk
28:30
around the town and put fear into every heart, a dark,
28:36
a cat, a fall, a fall. People see in me
28:40
the evil, which is simply a reflection of that which
28:44
lies within their own editor's heart. I am, in short,
28:48
the image of the devil which they themselves do make
28:52
for others. But it is I he will pay the
28:55
penalty the false words and thought. Indeed, it is said
29:01
I have the Devil's power, even so I am captive
29:04
here amongst the living dead. My only consolation is in
29:08
the non confession voice, which sounds strangely like my own.
29:14
If I had the devil's power, I would castell on
29:17
all of you to be free to live another day
29:21
and watch the sand float through for yet another hour.
29:25
Speaker 2: Oh that's really sad.
29:28
Speaker 1: And it's a concrete poem because it's in the shape
29:30
of an hour glass. It's actually written in the shape
29:32
of an hour glass, so that's sort of feel like
29:38
an example of the poem which has been inspired by
29:44
a local a local story and a local woman as well.
29:51
And the second one, this was kind of inspired by
29:54
my local park, Victoria Park, And I think you've been there, Christ, Yes.
30:00
Speaker 2: I like Victoria Parks.
30:03
Speaker 1: And it's called strange Halloween meeting. Men in swearing cakes
30:09
from top hats roam the park like the wildest fat
30:13
ladies in deep black morning veils, accompanied the sinister males
30:19
children in Victorian dress, or of them, causing much distress
30:23
to all of those who did not belong to this
30:26
Halloween parties. Long Today's when park had been made to
30:31
turn back time for the parade of jack o'lantins and
30:35
witches in search of all these soldier riches. Victorian, a
30:40
rule supreme and son was here, though it was seen,
30:45
but close by made osterd afraid time was up on
30:48
the deal he'd made. This was the night to pay
30:51
his debts of his soul. How could he forget his
30:55
loan to the Devil's Soldier, for which he asked to
30:58
be bolder, rich, better than those around his lives. He
31:03
wanted to confound with vengeful, pestilence and woe, so they
31:07
would have nowhere to go, only the path to seld
31:11
some harm by demon's way to kill with charm. Now
31:16
amid the fun and laughter, he was awaiting his new chapter.
31:20
As the Devil's unwilling slave. Twenty years ago he did
31:24
crave to be an mighty winner. Now he was only
31:28
an ordinary sinners. And this night, twenty years ago, he
31:33
had been on suicide shore when Fleet, the Devil's man,
31:37
had crept upon him late side. Had he wept, sinister
31:41
Fleet had offered all, invited him to life's great ball.
31:45
No more than your wretch's life. He could have his full,
31:48
perfect life just by signing his soul away. He could
31:52
have pleasures every day, For when now you've used some's
31:56
death brink, he did not even stop to think. He
32:01
flashed his wrists, and the blood roam read he signed
32:04
the deed, nothing was said. He thought the time would
32:07
never go, but days became years, and so here he was.
32:11
When Fleet was about declaimed his soul. There was no doubt,
32:16
a light spumps and milky traps for him to step into.
32:20
As you saw Fleete approaching, yet yellow skin glowing, black eyes,
32:25
and tombstone teeth showing, mouth salivating up the sort of
32:30
fame with the soul he had bought, there was nothing
32:33
more to be said. As sad Murdock bowed his head,
32:37
he thought that Fleet was striking dead. All he could
32:40
see was blood so red. Nor, my friend, you shall
32:43
not die, but lonely roam the park as I have
32:46
done all these years. Until you can claim a soul
32:50
and have them do what you have done, than you
32:53
can take their lives riches. Make no mistake, for this
32:57
is what I claim as mine. Now that you have
33:00
run out of time, I thank you for the life
33:02
I claim. I shall enjoy it just the same and you,
33:06
and while I'm living gone, I shall think long about
33:10
the one said, soul whose place I have taken while
33:13
you wander so forsaken Murdock, you should have kept the
33:18
light you had and not trouble with such life as
33:21
I have brought upon this night. But you must wander
33:25
out of sight every dismal Halloween Eve till you find
33:29
a soul to believe as you did all those years ago.
33:33
But now as I leave you, you must know how
33:36
heavy this long curse will be. I thank you you
33:39
have set me free to do the devil's work worldwide.
33:43
I'll leave you here to be my guide.
33:47
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, Saint Helen's is a very interesting place,
33:53
and you've made it interesting, sue for us with all
33:56
those kind of stories. Yeah, you feel Yeah, you just
34:00
feel like it's all all to do with Saint Helens
34:03
and it's just seems so real. And I love the
34:05
way that you were able to keep it rhyming all
34:07
the way through. That would take a long time. That
34:13
was absolutely brilliant. Do you have any more?
34:17
Speaker 1: I think a second? Got another one? Can I just
34:20
read you for a second?
34:21
Speaker 2: Well, listen, what we'll do is let's play out the
34:23
interview with a mal and then can we get back
34:26
to you then, so, well, that's fine because I.
34:29
Speaker 1: Have got a Halloween story.
34:31
Speaker 2: For you, Chris that I would love the Halloween story.
34:34
Going to read it now and then i'll finish. Oh
34:39
that sounds perfect and well, and we'll pick the new book.
34:41
So I'm going to play out the Amal reading Room interview,
34:44
which is he's an author himself, he's written I think
34:47
two books, and here's the interview. So I'll play this
34:50
out now.
34:51
Speaker 4: So on today's reading room. The interview we're having today
34:54
is is a guy called Ama sing you've got in
34:57
touch with me about a book, that a couple of
34:58
books that he's written, and he wants to try and
35:00
promote them. So you know what, I was open to
35:03
having people coming on and talking about with them. Now
35:06
he's not a local person, not from Liverpool, but he
35:08
is in Liverpool today. He's come to visit the place.
35:11
Speaker 6: Yes I have, thank you.
35:13
Speaker 4: It's an impression so far.
35:14
Speaker 6: Oh lovely, absolutely lovely.
35:16
Speaker 7: We went.
35:18
Speaker 8: They were just looking at the buildings and going, goodness me,
35:20
why don't we have buildings like this down south well?
35:23
Speaker 4: The most listed buildings outside Liverpool three hundred or something. Anyway,
35:30
let's let's just talk about your first book, which is
35:32
called The Evil of a Religion? What what sort of Hey,
35:35
what's it about? And be why have you written it? What?
35:38
Speaker 6: What's sort of it's it talks I talked about. When
35:45
I say.
35:46
Speaker 8: Religion, I mean ideology. So if you look, I've looked
35:51
at each individual religion.
35:53
Speaker 7: And what I.
35:55
Speaker 8: Discovered was, because religion has ravaged my own family, what's
36:02
your background?
36:03
Speaker 6: I what religion?
36:05
Speaker 8: I was born into a Sikh family, and what I
36:10
found was was that there had been arranged marriages that
36:15
had happened that had just effectively destroyed our fact. I
36:21
mean that it was that if you wore a turban
36:25
and you were a good and if you're the more
36:27
religious that you showed that you were, the better, the
36:31
better that you were. So basically you'd have I mean,
36:36
for example, one one example was was that one of
36:39
my uncles, I I was able to ascertain that he
36:43
my mother's brother, his daughters were because back in the
36:47
eighties there was no such thing as well, that probably was,
36:52
but the police were just so corrupt that being you know,
36:57
my uncle was, he used to he used to violently
37:00
beat his daughters and his wife. And so what they
37:07
did was they arranged their marriages. The daughter's marriages two
37:13
men who were some from India, some from other towns,
37:18
and in some circumstances they didn't even and and and
37:22
a lot of these, a lot of my cousins, a
37:23
lot of his daughters. They really suffered for like twenty
37:26
odd years. You know, they were it was horrible.
37:30
Speaker 4: Were they were? They people who were born because did
37:34
they come?
37:35
Speaker 6: They were born here? They were born here.
37:37
Speaker 4: Just just dang on one second, because I just need
37:39
to make sure that front.
37:41
Speaker 7: Sure you're right, okay, cool, yeah, h.
38:07
Speaker 8: Yeah, excuse me for being bunned up by the way
38:12
I've been. I've been congested since I think it's I
38:18
think it's more hay fevery than a cold, to be
38:20
honest you because I don't feel I just feel I checked.
38:24
Speaker 6: It's it's to do with because we've got a lot of.
38:27
Speaker 4: Leaves, yeah, in the air, on the floor. So in
38:35
the secret religion, you know, I know, I don't know
38:38
a great deal about it. I've got a friend of
38:40
the seat, but I don't sort of know the ins
38:42
and outs of it. You know that like Hindu and
38:46
Muslim religions are often often arranged. Our prevalence is in.
38:52
Speaker 8: It's it's it's used. It's less sort of, there's more agency.
38:58
The children have a lot more agents now than they
39:00
used to. But what I discovered essentially when I was
39:05
writing the book, when I was doing the research, because
39:09
I didn't just write the book spontaneously. I tried to
39:14
come to terms with what I had discovered about my
39:17
own family and the abuse that my cousin's sisters had
39:22
endured and the lives that they had endured, and I
39:26
began to write that down. But then I was astonished
39:30
to learn that other religions have had similar sort of
39:37
episodes where people have been I mean, I was absolutely
39:41
astonished as to what the Catholic Church did to women
39:46
in Ireland, for example, in the nineteen twenties, and that
39:50
was all news to me. So that's gone in the book,
39:54
what people have done because they for some reason, they're
39:58
able to garner authority if they're religious or if they
40:03
call themselves religious, and with that they've been able to
40:08
use that authority in a very sort of controlling, an
40:11
abusive way. And it's only afterwards, many years or decades later,
40:15
that people acknowledge the fact that there's been so much
40:18
abuse and to be honest, a lot of the abuse
40:21
is still going on.
40:23
Speaker 4: I mean, the other thing to say is you found
40:26
what was happening in the secret religion? Did that make
40:29
you popular in the secret religion? How did you cope
40:34
with that?
40:36
Speaker 6: It was difficult for it was, I mean, to be
40:38
honest with you.
40:41
Speaker 8: I I've been I've been told off. I haven't been ostracized.
40:49
I have been ostracized to a certain degree, but I've
40:53
always been I think they think that.
40:56
Speaker 6: I mean my mother, for.
40:57
Speaker 8: Example, she thinks that I've I've flipped my lid. She
41:05
thinks that I've lost my marbles, and I'm you know,
41:09
and I've there's something or somebody, somebody has done something
41:12
to me. She thinks that I needed exoricism, and I'm like, yeah, okay, thanks.
41:18
Speaker 9: But I mean, it's it's just absolutely the conviction and
41:25
and and in the book, I was astonished.
41:28
Speaker 8: Well, so I researched about cults, and what I found
41:34
was that people's beliefs doesn't matter what the religion is, whatever,
41:42
whatever ideology that they that is taught by that particular faith,
41:48
it's it's it's taken. There's nothing that can shake it,
41:54
even if it's illogical completely. I mean, in the book
41:58
I talk about the Jonestown Hop. For example, over nine
42:02
hundred people committed suicide just by following the instructions of
42:06
this one.
42:06
Speaker 4: Person, Jim Jones.
42:07
Speaker 6: Wasn't it, That's right, Jim Jones? Yeah, and I was.
42:11
Speaker 8: I was absolutely astonished to find out that. So there
42:15
is there is definitely connecting tissue.
42:19
Speaker 4: Yeah. Do you think this is like? I mean, we've
42:24
done programs about stuff like this before, and I always
42:27
sort of say, well, a lot of people seem to
42:29
have got gold shaped holes in them, and they'll find
42:32
something to fill that space, whether it's you know, an
42:36
organized religion, whether it's a sort of more out lambish religion.
42:40
I mean you've heard things like the scientology just don't
42:42
oh goodness, yeah, which just sounds totally bizarre. But people
42:47
sort of go into New Age stuff, don't they. You know,
42:49
it's like you know, reik here and oh yeah, stuff smudging,
42:54
smudging would sage, you know, all that type of stuff.
42:56
Do you think I think as a as a as
42:59
a as a source of race, you know, the human
43:02
race needs something bigger than them.
43:05
Speaker 8: I to be honest with you, I think there is
43:11
a degree of that I think that people in themselves insecure.
43:16
And but then this inspired me then to write the
43:20
other book, the second book. And in the second book,
43:24
I explore so I take a more sort of helicopter
43:27
view of it, and I look at belief and the
43:32
definition of it is thinking that something is true without
43:37
any evidence. And I was asking you astonished that how
43:42
much that has been used and abused over the last
43:47
fourteen years. I mean, the whole, the whole Brexit stick
43:51
was all based on belief.
43:55
Speaker 6: It was just there were.
43:57
Speaker 8: No there were no there was nothing substantial there were
43:59
I mean, if you if you asked any of the
44:02
brexitis what, could you give us an example of one
44:06
thing that will advantageous well, that will be advantageous to
44:09
the country as a result of as a consequence of Brexit.
44:13
Speaker 6: They couldn't. It was just platitudes and.
44:15
Speaker 7: They were just there.
44:18
Speaker 8: There were just string words together that didn't actually mean anything.
44:21
There was that there was no substantially there was no
44:23
substantive sort of.
44:24
Speaker 6: Point that they were making. If you look at and
44:28
then when.
44:29
Speaker 8: You look at the attitude of all I mean the
44:30
attitude of the Metropolitan Police, for example, the idea that
44:37
that or the belief, if you like, or their belief
44:41
that a race is more prone to criminality than any
44:46
other race.
44:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's just the bias is at the thing. Yeah, absolutely.
44:49
Speaker 8: I mean it happened in Brixton with the with the
44:54
Sus laws, it happened in all over the place.
44:56
Speaker 6: It happened in Toxtus as well.
44:58
Speaker 8: Uh. And I cover all of that in the second
45:00
part of the book. But the other thing that astonished
45:02
me is it's not just religions, and it's not just
45:07
politicians that have used it. I talk about a very
45:12
famous scammer who scammed very famous people in America, people
45:20
that I mean Rupert Murdoch.
45:22
Speaker 6: For example, Betsy. I mean, this is all you know.
45:26
Speaker 8: They lost hundreds of tens of millions of dollars, one
45:32
hundreds of millions. And I was astonished because and the
45:35
Walton family who owned Walmart.
45:40
Speaker 6: They all they all.
45:43
Speaker 8: Invested in a business and they lost all their investment
45:46
because the whole thing was a scam. The person who
45:50
actually ran it, Elizabeth Holmes, she did twelve years in
45:55
jail in It's amazing, but they didn't check. They didn't
46:01
check to see.
46:02
Speaker 6: Whether what she was saying was true.
46:05
Speaker 1: Or not.
46:06
Speaker 6: They just believed.
46:07
Speaker 8: They just took on what she was saying at face
46:09
value because of who she associated with. She she had
46:15
built relationships with very famous sort of people, some of
46:20
the American politics because of who her father was. He
46:25
was associated with a company Enron, who had itself been
46:33
in trouble in the nineties. But it was just amazing
46:37
how big this whole concept is, the idea that you
46:41
could just follow an ideology and just think that it
46:43
might be true.
46:44
Speaker 4: I think people sort of lowered. I mean, I'm always
46:46
astonished by what people how people react to what do
46:49
you see on the internet. Now we've all had these,
46:52
I mean I still get them, you know, regularly get
46:55
an email off what's his name? Good Daffy's daughter say
47:00
she's got four million quid for me, Oh wow. And
47:02
it's like, you know, I also want something on Facebook
47:05
saying I'm giving me a job because you know, I
47:08
think I think they they might not. You know, this
47:11
is what wouldes me, these sorts of bogus. Let us
47:14
have the blue blogs emails. We know amosageant and I
47:18
found this battle of money in Iran. People will because
47:25
it's on the Internet and it's written down. It's type downs.
47:28
I think people still have this, are still calm too easily.
47:33
In a sense, if someone came up to you in
47:34
a pub and said I've just found a battle with
47:37
four million dollars and I want to give you a
47:38
million dollars, you just say why, you know? So the
47:44
Internet sort of like makes people a bit, especially if
47:48
people aren't use to the Internet. They're a bit more
47:50
gullible than I.
47:53
Speaker 8: Possibly, but I think to be fair, I think I
47:58
don't think it's any deliberate aspect it, but certainly the
48:02
people that run websites and search engines for example, or
48:08
mister Zuckerberg, they could if they really wanted to, uh,
48:15
do something about this. And we saw how people were
48:21
encouraged to self harm and how much did it take,
48:26
how much pressure did it take to get them to
48:29
act on that, So you kind of wonder that actually,
48:33
I think there is I think people are able to
48:36
manipulate the Internet, but I think the people that that
48:40
you know in a way control what is said and
48:44
you know, and social media as a whole, I think
48:46
they're almost abdicated responsibility, which is completely disingenuous.
48:51
Speaker 4: But I think that was a use in Medican laws.
48:53
Though that said that, you know, you're only the publisher
48:56
of it. You've got no you know, you've got no
48:59
concern about the The truthfulness is the thing that you know,
49:03
you're just the carrier of the message. We had the
49:05
newspaper with the you know, an adverting you know some things,
49:11
you know, you know by your goal bar for a round,
49:15
you know, million people said no, they will a million
49:17
quid and there's no gold bars. Newspaper gets soon would
49:20
never taken the advert.
49:22
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, I kind of get it. But I mean
49:27
you'd think that people, particularly online when it comes to
49:34
things because we've had so many instances where people have
49:38
have lost so much.
49:41
Speaker 6: We're not just talking about money, you know they've lost.
49:44
Speaker 8: I mean you really consider the people who have been
49:49
persuaded to hurt themselves or to partake in activities that
49:55
normal people wouldn't. But you see people, people are under
50:02
all kinds of mental stress, and I think mental health
50:06
comes into it. And I think that there needs to
50:09
be regulation of media as a whole, really, and I
50:14
think it is difficult because where do you draw the line.
50:18
But I do think that there needs to be some
50:21
sort of boundary of certainly of taste, but I think
50:25
it should start from the truth, to be perfect with you.
50:29
In the in the in the book, in a second book,
50:32
I talk about Stephen.
50:33
Speaker 7: Lawrence, and.
50:36
Speaker 8: Oh gosh, it was horrendous the amount of the amount
50:40
of sort of blatant lies, blatant you know, misinformation, disinformation
50:51
that was put out by the police and subsequently came
50:55
out through subsequent inquiries that actually, well at the time
50:58
that this was happening, there was corruption, but it had
51:01
it not. You know, it took what over two decades
51:06
to bring two people to justice.
51:09
Speaker 6: Uh, it was shocking.
51:12
Speaker 8: And then just before Steven Lawrence, actually nineteen ninety one,
51:15
Roland Adams. Nobody talks about the Ronland Adams. But Roland
51:19
Adams he you know in Thamesmead. They he was, he
51:23
was It was at a bus stop with his brother
51:27
waiting to go home and his brother was what he
51:30
must have been thirteen fourteen, and but Roland was was
51:36
was attacked, set upon by a gang of thugs. But
51:40
the police they treat because of because they were both black.
51:45
There was the whole thing was treated as though it
51:48
was gang related, which is shocking to me, absolutely shocking.
51:54
Speaker 4: So we're gonna have to We're gonna have to call
51:56
a date to it now because you want to go
51:58
set understand to just give us the title to you
51:59
to bigs and how people can get all of them.
52:01
Speaker 8: The first one is called the Evil of Religion. The
52:05
second one is called Belief Bias and Racism.
52:07
Speaker 4: And they self published. You can get them on the Amazon.
52:10
Speaker 6: You get them an Amazon.
52:11
Speaker 4: They are also available on Ingram Spark.
52:14
Speaker 8: If you're a bookshop. But yeah, it's on Amazon. And yeah,
52:20
I think you'll think you're like.
52:21
Speaker 7: Them, I really do.
52:22
Speaker 4: Okay, thanks coming off to late and enjoy your the
52:24
rest of these staying. Thank you appreciate it. We'll like
52:27
people to get a good pleasure.
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Speaker 7: Than they will.
52:31
Speaker 2: Well that was a good interview. Quite harrowing sometimes to
52:35
see what he's written about and true stories. But anyway,
52:39
we're back the reading room, back with Barry and Sue. Hello, Hello, Hello,
52:47
So Sue's gonna thrill us now with a Halloween story.
52:52
So we're ready when you are, so story quest, No worries.
53:01
Speaker 1: It's gone thicker tree now left sat knitting in her
53:06
living room, slowly deliberately moving backwards and forwards on her
53:12
old brown rocking chat as she pushes pointed needles through
53:16
hand mammies. The rhythmic clicking of the needles was accompanied
53:21
by the heart in second sticking to the clock, and
53:24
the tutting emerging from her mouth. Not long now, she thought,
53:28
with a right smile, Not long until she reclaimed her freedom.
53:33
The thoughts of her mistreatment, the mockery of her belief,
53:37
and her ultimate displacement raged through her body as a
53:41
reaction to Orbis in a turmoil which was surging through her.
53:46
The pace of the church movement increased as she rocked
53:49
herself into hysteria, years of pent rage to cause the
53:54
church to move swiftly backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards.
53:59
Now the needles crest furiously. Dropped stitch followed, dropped ditch
54:03
into oblivion. What did it matter? Nobody was going to
54:06
wear the garish red star. She was only knitting to
54:10
pass the time. Nearly there, she said to Timmy. The
54:14
large cat sat at her feet. For Timmy, he was
54:17
always suffering at the hands of the young lads and
54:20
the estate. Never mind, Timmy, it will soon be time
54:24
to get her own back, she said, smiling, her cracked
54:28
lips straining against the unfamiliar gesture. She stone teeth parted
54:33
as fish aspire rose from her stomach if a web
54:37
of hatred she had spun around herself. She had forgotten
54:40
how hungry she was, and she couldn't really remember the
54:43
last time she'd eaten. The sound of trick or treat
54:48
outside calmed her down. She must not lose her sense
54:51
of purpose at the slate stage, she chided herself. She
54:55
stopped rocking and forced her creaking bones to carry out
54:59
her mind. Quietly, she moved to the front window and
55:04
with a skeleton hands drew back the floral curtains. She
55:08
had always hated these curtains, and when she had inherited
55:11
her mother's house, she had done it up in a
55:14
style that would not show attention to her. This included
55:18
keeping the curtains for a mother, she thought. Still, she
55:22
had lived a long night, just as Nella had. However,
55:25
forever lodged in Nella's mind was the cruelty of still
55:28
called friends and neighbor. So unnecessary and Unlike Nella, her
55:33
mother had had no opportunity to accect revenge. Not long,
55:39
she thought again, allowing herself to smug smile, she could
55:43
hear her childish laughter and the knocking on doors. No
55:47
point sitting down again, She would only have to get
55:49
up when they knocked on her door. She remembered them
55:53
from last year, vicious eyes shown through cheap Halloween masks,
55:58
cruel mouths fitting out the words trick or treat, all
56:02
their rugliness wrapped up in a tradition, and all their
56:05
bad behavior excused because it was only a bit of sun.
56:10
Are only happened once a year. Suddenly Timmy hissed, and
56:15
Nella knew that they were closed and let the curtain
56:17
fall back into places. She stood frozen until she heard
56:21
the heavy footsteps on her path, and the Muffle laughed
56:25
as they discrussed what they would do this year. Then
56:28
came the pounding on the door, which matched the pounding
56:32
in her chest. Now was the time. Slowly she made
56:37
her way to the large up door, saying as she
56:40
opened it, who sat knocking on my door? Trick or treaters?
56:44
Come from more? They stood there, she forward them, waiting
56:48
for their Sunsius seek for companies by a bit of
56:51
fun at her expense. However, Nella knew how to deflate
56:55
them and quickly said, to their surprise, well, my dear boys,
56:59
why don't you come in into my humble aboard and
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I see what I have got for you this year.
57:04
She saw the glances of evil passed seen them. They
57:08
couldn't believe their luck to be as who side as
57:10
God in or woman's town a house that could before
57:14
a twice of antique. Quickly they moved into her living room,
57:19
getting the place of anything worth sealing. Nella read her mind,
57:23
but smiled benign me at dun and said, here, boy,
57:27
she must be fair to be have some juice. I
57:29
put a little extra in it, although I don't think
57:32
the parents for the truth, she finished with a chuckle.
57:35
The lads, ever started alcohol romentarily forgot the main reason
57:39
they were there as they got down their drinks down
57:42
without fall things. This was why I call the halloweens
57:46
rolled into one. Much much later, as tired, Nella was
57:51
about to go to bed, and she decided she had
57:54
to indulge herself just one more time. She walked into
57:58
her kitchen and opened the fee the brightness light she
58:03
could see rules with meat packages neatly lined up on courage. Still, Timmy,
58:10
we shall eat well until next Halloween.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
58:14
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I didn't expect that. Well done, That was great,
58:20
really good.
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Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah, most people don't expect that, Crystal.
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Speaker 2: No, it's not based on the truth exactly, but in
58:32
these days you don't you never know, do you really? Okay,
58:36
now is the time to say what book we're going
58:39
to have next month. We've already decided on a date,
58:41
hopefully the sixth of December. We'll record the reading room
58:44
and we'll have another guest on. I'd like to thank
58:47
Sefton Parker Library for supplying the books, and of course
58:52
Liverpool Community Radio one oh six point seven for leading
58:55
us do the wonderful reading room. So Mattie's picked it out,
58:59
I'm going to open up and tell us what the
59:01
book is for next month, and it is Go Set
59:06
a Watchman Happily, which I'm actually pleased because I thought
59:11
that would be a very interesting book. I think it
59:13
was Sue's choice. It was Sue's choice, wasn't it. I
59:17
loved so much To Kill a Mockingbird, So it'd be
59:20
interesting to see if that one is available on what
59:23
we think about that one. Well, people, Barry and Sue,
59:29
thank you so much for joining us, and we shall
59:34
meet again in December for the next reading room program.
59:41
Thank you very much, Happy Halloween, bye for now
1:00:00
Speaker 7: Many