Latest / The People Run Podcast / #20: Mak Foss on Racing, Indy Marathon Prep & Building Society Track Club

Transcript

#20: Mak Foss on Racing, Indy Marathon Prep & Building Society Track Club · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I started thinking about it and I was like, I think we can make this into like a track club and do it every month.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so I came up with the name and then I came up with like the little cheetah because I love cats.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Then from there, we started getting this draw of people who wanted to be on a racing team.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so that brought on like, okay, so now we have this track day that happens every month.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: Then that transition into let's form a track team off of this that doesn't go off a pace, it goes off of effort, right?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can be a six-hour marathoner or you can be a 233 marathoner and be on the same team.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by uh Mac, who is a runner out of Michigan.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we've kind of been chopping it up here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of missed one of her run events recently, uh, without knowing before this, but uh she's uh working all the time and has uh running some really fast paces, grinding, you know, with work and and running a track club and BQ ran BQ to Boston this year, which I'm curious to ask her about how she balances all this and and manages to run some fast time while running a track club.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: But without further ado, let's just get right into it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh first off, Mac, thanks for joining.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: How's your uh Monday going a day post-race, actually?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: You just had a race.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to be here.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, it's going good.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's wild racing on Sundays.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: I uh you know, I have a love-hate relationship with it because you have more prep over the weekend to relax for a Sunday race, but then all of a sudden it's Monday.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: And yesterday I did absolutely none of the prep that I typically do for my week.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: So today I woke up and I'm like, no, it has to be Sunday.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: I can't, I can't actually function.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I can't go on.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I'm I'm doing all right, we're bearing through it.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree with that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sunday is not my favorite race day, even though a lot of marathons fall, but marathon, you'll take a you know the next day off.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's a short race, you gotta go to work the next day.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I was a couch potato for the last eight hours.
• 1:58
  unknown: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: So no, I'm like, uh I didn't, I didn't do my laundry, I didn't do my meal prep, I didn't do like anything that I typically do.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then I woke up today and I'm I just was like, I can't.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot be as productive as I need to be on a Monday.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it's rough out here.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Inside there, so you meal prep.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm horrible with that.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I eat great, don't get me wrong.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just I like fresh.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's not even like to be quote unquote like a healthy eater.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like out of necessity.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like if I don't have my meals prepped for me and like snacks ready to go, my days are typically super, super busy.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I just will like grab anything, and I'm very conscious of like I need a lot of fuel to do my training, or I feel really bad, and I hate feeling really bad.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, like having those easy to go meals where it's like I can quick eat it between meetings or like I can grab it before a run.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like I always do this weird thing.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I've been told it's weird, but I meal prep pancakes, like an entire box of pancakes.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, like an entire box of pancakes, I'll meal prep it before the week because I get up and run super early, like 5 30.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: I start my run.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like I need to be able to get up and grab something.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so grabbing some pancakes is really easy for me.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I can do that, I can go for my run, and then I can grab some more before I start my work day to fuel myself efficiently.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, I don't have that right now, and so tonight I'm gonna have to catch up on all that meal prep so that I can make sure that I'm getting enough to feel good and running and things like that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, I I don't feel this weird at all.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's hella smart, especially pancakes.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, pancakes take a while, like to make, and that I'm just hungry as I just did my run.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now here's like what if you had a pancake?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: You could just grab it, you know, and I'm okay.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe the weirder part is that I'll eat them cold.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't warm them up, I grab them as if they're like just a ready-to-go cold snack.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe the listener might find this weird, but I guess we're probably two weirdos because I do I have no problems eating my pancake or waffle straight up cold.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, right as long as it's not in the freezer, if it's on the bottom or like I grabbed it, I'll eat that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a necessity.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so like I I love good food, but a lot of times I'm eating because like it's not that I'm hungry or that I even like am craving a certain thing, it's that I know that I need it to operate as a person, so it's a necessity, you know.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm one of those people who is better fed than than not fed.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I get so bad.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh so what goes in the what goes in the pancakes?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what what what's your ingredients for your pancake?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are like they homemade?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you it's like a packet you buy?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely not.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: They're not homemade.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I just use uh the like protein pancake mix, like that Kodiak, I think it is.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: I I'll just typically grab that or I grab like the Annie's ones, and then I'm a sweet tooth through and through.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I will throw in blueberries or chocolate chips.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Typically it's chocolate chips.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's it's very easy to go.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: I just make them all on a griddle and like mass, and then I put them in a little tub of wear and I throw them in the fridge.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oof, that is uh hey, for those listening, including myself, we gotta get a griddle and just mass produce pancakes.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can make six at a time, like that's crazy.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that I like you know, I only have to make four griddle fulls and I think you got your protein and cars right there post-workout in like two minutes, you know.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Just as long as like us, you like it cold or don't mind.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you could put them in the microwave.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just lazy.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, sometimes I I can relate it like it tastes great.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love cold chocolate chips.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: So if I just you know, so that's that's my method of madness for uh pre-run fuel.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about method of madness and and organize, you hinted at it, and that's one of the things I've been curious on like how you do it because I'm gonna start soon, like having to get up a little earlier.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure the listener out there, some people got work in the morning, you know, remote or or they gotta go in the office, whatever.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so you get your runs in very early by 5 a.m.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think I saw you're already running, and you're in the office by eight.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how are you doing all this?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what's your organization?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do you make that work?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're also running higher mileage, fast, you're very competitive and athletic.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you balance all that?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's honestly, I've never been a morning runner until this season of marathoning.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think like my my mileage is gonna get into the high 70s for indie, which is my next marathon build.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so it's been a transition.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've also been trying to like get away from the heat of this summer, which has been wild.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: But most of it is just about being prepared the night before.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I will be meticulous about going to bed semi-early.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'll get into bed at like 10, 10:30.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'll have everything I need in the morning laid out for me.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, I have my pancakes are ready to go in the fridge.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I, if I need a water, which typically I'll take a handheld with me, or I'll have a bottle if I go to the track because I won't obviously need to be carrying anything with me.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll have that like prepped and ready to go with my hydration mix in.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'll have my gels laid out on the counter or in my bag already with my shoes.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I'll lay like my outfit out and my garment and everything, and like the rubber bands that I need for my hair, like everything to a T is like laid out.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: Grab it, I get dressed, I grab everything that I need, and then I I head out the door.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I also obviously like you've already touched on it, I do have um big involvement with Society Track Club, which is the track club that I uh founded here.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I it's never a shortage of having people to run with.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of times if I feel like I'm gonna struggle getting out of bed, I will make sure that I have someone who's gonna meet me for that run.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of one of those things where it's like, okay, yeah, if someone's meeting me at 5 a.m.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: or 5 30, I'm not gonna bail on them.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that that's like my driving thing of like I have to get out of bed, like I have to do this.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I also feel like maybe I'm one of the luckier people where like I can roll out of bed, get dressed, eat my pancake, grab some water, do my like pre-run stretches and leave.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Some people need like an hour to two hours before they run.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I luckily don't have that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: I can see how like, yeah, see, like that would be a deterrent for me if I needed that much time before I run.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not like, I don't know, I I don't need like a huge routine before I run.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: I can I can pretty much like get up, get ready, go.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you drink coffee in the morning?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: I do, but I do it post-run.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't drink coffee before I run.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Post run.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you find the energy?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: I um honestly like I feel better like two miles in.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: I also like I am very strict on my easy paces.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm okay being if I have like an easy run and it's at 5 a.m.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: or 5 30, I'm okay running like in the nines and tens, even though like my race paces are like six and sevens.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't mind being half asleep for it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I've never been, I don't drink black coffee.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: I always I have like I just recently I either well I didn't used to drink coffee, but now that I do drink coffee, I bought an espresso machine.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm making like little lattes, and actually I didn't know people drank coffee before their runs.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: And my coach one day was like, Oh, like coffee's a cheat code, you should totally drink coffee.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm like, oh, cool.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I had this 5k, and I was like, I'm gonna break 19 in this 5k, like that is my goal.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm gonna go break 19.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I didn't necessarily know that when he said drink coffee before run, he didn't mean like make yourself a latte on the way to the 5k.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I like it was a horrible 5k.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had to walk, like I felt so sick, like I chugged a latte with milk.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like that's like don't do that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like my side hurt so bad, I was just like cracking around.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and for track workouts, I like have it very strictly that I'll do my two-mile warm-up and then I'll take a caffeine caffeinate gel.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that kind of does help a little bit before I start the actual like workout of it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've been wanting to do exactly what you're saying, and I've struggled so hard to just uh there's two things.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: One, I I think I I just need to just put my mind to it, but the the coffee after, you know, growing up with coffee, like I don't know.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've had several people on this say this.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen I have friends who drink it after.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things I want to implement because I feel like when you drink coffee consistently, eventually you lose some of the I think everyone knows this, you lose some of the effects or like you become dependent on it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes on my rest days, I'll have no coffee, and those days feel horrible because you're so used to it, you know.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I heard people doing like coffee cleanses before races so that the caffeine hits a little bit harder the morning of.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I tried that.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, even on race day, I won't have coffee before.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I won't wake up and have a black coffee.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just wait for that.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: To be quite honest, I know people do it.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think my problem is I drink too much coffee, just be quite honest.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think it's a me problem.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like what happens is you rest.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Huh?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: You have multiple a day.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, okay.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna excuse it to this, but I'm just gonna throw it in there because I feel it's also a valid excuse.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we spoke a little bit about this.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: New Yorker, coffee's everywhere.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: We drink coffee, you know.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also Spanish.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: We grew up on Bustello, which is like the premium or now local, uh, you know, coffee, um, Miami, Cuban coffee.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a problem here.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: You will uh you know, I've done better, funny enough, like in the past year and a whole.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's tied to Colorado where I'll drink one before, maybe one after, and that's it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: But there's been times where four or five cups will go down, no problem for sure.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's very crazy.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now you know I have no success with the I've tried it, so I've done races, never a full, because full I want all the powers, but um where I'll take the last three, four days off.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And for those listening, if you drink a lot of coffee, you know when you hop off, headaches come, you feel you feel horrible.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like your body's recovering, hunger moves up higher than usual because you you kind of push your um your hunger a little bit with coffee.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't like doing it for a serious race because then you go into the race and you're a little too wired or you're too lethargic because you haven't had coffee.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had mixed results with that, to be honest with you.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Have you tried um cordyceps?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever heard of those?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've heard of it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know much about it to be honest with you.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've just heard it in like passing, but I've never tried that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I actually I didn't for my oh maybe I did.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know I have for so for every marathon I've taken cordyceps, like it's a like a mushroom type of coffee.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I actually did like the tea version, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: But cordyceps have like that very much, it's almost like drinking coffee without the jitters, like you don't get that big caffeine boost, but you definitely like get an intense focus.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I find that like I have done that before every marathon, which I think helps, but yeah, I don't do coffee or anything like that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I recommend like trying that before a big workout or a long run or something like that, and seeing if you like that because I have had a lot of success with like feeling like it's a weird, I don't even know how to explain it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like, oh my gosh, I have all this energy, but it's like you're focused, you feel like you could do what you're doing forever.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like it never, like you don't feel tired at the end of it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I get what you mean.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I might try that because uh, well, you know this, but for the listener and whoever's been tuning in for a while also knows I'm also doing indie.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we're eight weeks out now, roughly.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Seven point technically Saturday was eight weeks, but uh I think I might try that for a long run and see how it goes.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I like the idea of focus, reminds me of pre-workouts, but I don't do pre-workout anymore, just very bad.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: That feels like striking your heart rate.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, okay, so I actually this is a crazy situation.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I um I like way back, probably like a I just had to have been like a year ago, I was like, we had really bad air quality here in in um Michigan from the Canadian wildfires.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was given an inhaler because I was having some like trouble breathing and like coughing a lot.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I used to take a hit of my inhaler before every race.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: Recently I found out that inhalers that have like albuterol in it um actually it can spike your heart rate up.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was almost like I was taking pre-workout before running, and it I it was crazy.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I've I recently learned that in in like the realm of like pre-workout and coffee.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Don't do that apparently.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's something you shouldn't do.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's pretty wild actually, because we have obviously not the best quality air here as well, and even my state before this didn't have high quality either because we were right close to like the other side of Canada.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, yeah, to your point, that's kind of why I stopped pre-workout.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like my background was in bodybuilding before running, and I was just used to it, and I was getting to a point where, like, yeah, it's 15, 10, 15 bpm higher on like even easy runs.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't need this, and you're crashing, and um, it crashes your adrenal glands to go even further, which I'm sure you can get from that as well.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of stopped.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, for the listener, if you some people do.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know some people out there, they're younger or whatever, or they just used to it, they run and oh, speed day, I'm gonna do pre-workout.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Kudos to you, but you know, personally, I want to do this for a long time.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Crazy behavior.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like once your heart rate spikes, it is so hard to get it down.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're already starting a run with your heart rate high, it's a lot easier if you can start it lower and then work up.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's why like most people have a lot of success with their races if they can like start at a controlled pace and not necessarily go out at your race pace and then like work up because your heart rate can like just slightly move to the race pace heart rate rather than like you start a run or a race and you're at already like 190 beats per minute.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you're not bringing that back down.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, chances are you're stuck there and you have to now hang out at that heart rate, and that's crazy and not attainable for like a marathon, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, that's not even 5k.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think my heart already goes into 190 anymore.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like ideally, I'm not ever in the 190s, but it does happen.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: I know that like heart rate's like a big thing, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of been one of those not ideas, but concepts in running that's been really stressed.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like heart rate, zone two, and like some people just have naturally high heart rates, so it's hard to like go off of that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: But like statistically and and I think medically, like you really can't maintain your max heart rate for extended periods of time, right?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's why they say, like, I I know we already kind of touched on this a little bit, but like I did run a 10 mile or less yesterday, and so it's like do you run your 10 mile or at your 10k pace and try to maintain it, or do you start at like a half marathon pace and like 10 milers unless you're gonna be sub one hour, you really can't maintain your threshold pace for that long.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like trying to do that math of like, okay, I need to keep my heart rate at this zone in order to like effectively race throughout and not bonk at the end or like have that horrible last three miles where you're crawling.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a that's a a smart way of running a race, and one people either learn the hard way or through a coach or just experience one of the three, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um on that same note, like what did you run it at?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Did you run it at threshold?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Was it like half pace, 10k?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: What was your goal for that one?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: So my it was actually I had a really good race yesterday, and um, I needed a really good race yesterday, honestly, but I've never run a 10K.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know my 10K pace.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: I just started running in 2022.
• 17:45
  unknown: Okay.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: I guess journey, if a lot of people will call it that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I've never run a 10K.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: I recently got into 5K's last summer, um, and I've only raced one half marathon.
• 18:00
  unknown: Okay.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: And otherwise, I've always done half marathons leading up to a marathon, and it's been more so like, let's go out and try to maintain marathon pace for that half marathon.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so my thought process was I did my half marathon at 6 like 50 something pace last spring before I ran Boston.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so my coach and I were like, let's just aim for like a 648 pace, which is like a 108, 10 mile.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I ended up going out, and so my goal, like I am a very conservative racer.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people give me flack for that that I run with because I will set very lofty goals, but also I'll go out very conservatively.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, I'm gonna go out at like 650 something pace, and I'm just gonna work down and then hopefully at the end I'm feeling really good and I can just blast the last like 5k.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't happen.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: I got a little bit um overzealous, but I did end up just like maintaining the 630 pace the whole time, like 635 to 640-ish.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I did like a one, so I ran a 105, um, which was two minutes under my goal, which is great.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: I I honestly needed like a confidence boost there.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: But um yeah, so I I guess I don't know if that in my head I would think that that would be my threshold pace, but it didn't necessarily like I never felt like, oh my gosh, I'm struggling.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm gonna really have to grind through these last couple miles.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if that was my threshold pace, but I definitely don't think I could run a half marathon in the 630s.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, but I also don't know.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just like I'm still learning about all of that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I guess we'll have to just estimate.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of live it, you you have to learn it, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I obviously am eight month eight weeks out, like you said, from indie.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like I'm getting to a place where I feel like decently in shape and in fit, yeah, but I don't know where I stand at those shorter distances because my main goal and my main focus is like indie and building for that marathon and making sure that like I'm equipped to like run that in the time frame that I want to run it in.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, that makes sense.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and now as a more experienced runner and like delving into, we spoke earlier, like I've delved into the coaching stuff.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a smart approach than like what you see out there where everyone's like running fast, 5k, 10k, and then comes the you just trying to hang on to that for a full or a half.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, conservative approach.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, knock it if you will, for those listening, but like that can possibly be a negative split, which is one of the hardest things to do.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And most don't because they they get into the race vibes and the coffee or whatever, or like you know, if someone goes out fast, there's a pacer that you weren't supposed to follow, and maybe you follow.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also just so different.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I dove right into marathoning.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: I've never like I so the way that I found myself into running in general was I also kind of like you.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I started my athletic career, I guess, as a cheerleader.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I cheered all throughout college competitively.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that was like my whole identity.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: I left college, and the cheerleaders you see on TV are not cheerleaders, they're more dancers, so that's not necessarily what I was gonna go and do.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I got into bodybuilding and I was like super, yeah, super into bodybuilding, like 40 pounds heavier of muscle.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I twice a day sometimes, like I got into like a was I gonna do a show, all of that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but eventually that like feeling that I was searching for, which was a lot of like community and team and like competing in a way that was like how I felt when I did cheerleading, just didn't it didn't like fulfill that part of me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I also, so like I was really looking for a team aspect and I found run clubs.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I found this local run club, and I took a chance and I I had never run the uh really more than like a couple, like maybe a mile, but I would do my miles were like I'm gonna do a hit workout for like cardio part of like lifting, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like actually running the full like I'm just going out for a run.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to this run club because I saw it was no drop.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: I showed up there and I was the back of the pack, like barely could keep up.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was I was in awe that none of them had headphones because I was like, wait a second here, what's going on?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: You want me to talk?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like I that's not happening.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um the girl who was really nice and stayed with me towards the back was telling me all about how she had run the Chicago marathon and she loved it.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: She was like, I was taking shots on the course, like there was all these things going on, and I would in my head I thought, okay, like that's I can do that.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: I can do that.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went home and I signed up for a marathon.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, not Chicago because I you had to go to the lottery and stuff like that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Lottery, all that getting into.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know any of that stuff, so I just found one that was like local.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I signed up for it, and it was in six months, and I was like, I'm just gonna train for this, I'm gonna do it.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I've always been a marathoner.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: From that day on, I'm always been a marathoner, and it's just wild sometimes.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Going back to my original point, is like marathoning is so different and unforgiving, like other distances.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Other distances you can go out and you just have to either be uncomfortable the whole time or you can kind of wing it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you don't really need a strategy, you just go fast, see where you're at, you follow people and like you knock them off one by one.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: And and like marathoning is very much I'm type A, so I think it works for me, but like it's strategic.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you don't know what you're gonna get the day of.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: You have to like account for everything that could potentially go wrong because it's 26.2 miles, and a lot can happen in that distance, and you have to be prepared and you have to have the training and the confidence and like all of that stuff.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I like I'm still learning how to do the short distances and figure out where my potential is there because I like to be comfortably uncomfortable, which is the marathon, not a 10 mile or a 5k or 10k kind of thing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And total uncomfort, yeah, yeah, right, yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny, uh, you you say that as far as uh the last part, like the uncomfortable 5k, 10k, like that's my struggle too.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I find um for some reason, I don't know if this is a correlation.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's started with like lifting and then delved into this arena of marathoning, for sure, and you have some muscle, we favor the endurance side, aka marathon, half that kind of stuff.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let me go out for a long run, but you know, I we'll get into some more because you have a track uh club, but like the short distance is daunting.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just did a 10K this weekend and uh I haven't done many, and I've been analysis, paralysis, or procrastinating myself from those distances because I'm like, I don't know if I want to be at 170 BPM for you know 40 something minutes and whatnot, you know, eventually, but I I've done it now recently, and it's like it's such a reward.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: But for some reason, we just favor to your point.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just go to the long route.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's like it's unpredictable, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Did you when you went into your 10K, did you have like okay, I'm gonna go out at this pace type of plan, or was it more like I don't really know?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't like how did you show up to that kind of thing?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's where I struggle.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know what I'm gonna get.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: We got a lot of similarities there because um during the race, I remember the night before.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm trying to strategize because it's not an aid race, right?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a race for me to like test the fitness right now.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we probably had the same day idea idea since we're running the same race eight weeks out.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let me test the fitness.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: One, I forgot I signed up up until a week ago.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm like, well, I do want to test the fitness, so let's do this.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't tape write anything.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say, like, for me, this race, I still had the same feelings, but I knew that I wanted to run this one at threshold.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've delved into the coaching and the benefits threshold.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was like, I want to start at a marathon pace, and then if I feel great, which the fitness is starting to come in finally, I'm like, I'll knock it down the the second half after.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of how I ran it, which probably is not all out 10k.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I would say probably not.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I could have probably done an easily five minutes faster, but I didn't want to pay for that knowing that I have a lot of miles to do this week, and then be like, okay, I can't, you know, I have to cut back on some miles.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's to your point, being strategic about it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's something I plan to do next season after this race is like, okay, let's get uncomfortable and it sounds scary just thinking about it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just do some 10Ks all out, you know, high BPM, threat way beyond threshold.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I decided to answer your question to do it to start at marathon pace um and then knock it down into threshold the second half, and it happened naturally.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also had to account for no tapering, no nothing.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I did it here at altitude, it was a local one.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I felt like crap the day before because I had done a long run like three days ago um with some faster pace at the end.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was like, look, I'm gonna take what I can get.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: But luckily, halfway into the race, I didn't know there was a hill at the end.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I started knocking it down naturally.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, that last hill was brutal, but I ran it at threshold, so it's probably in the same realm that we like versus the all out.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that is, it sounds like you had predictability there, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like you didn't go into this being like, I'm just gonna go as fast as I can and figure it like keep going faster and faster and faster until I can't anymore.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like having that plan of like, okay, I'm starting at marathon pace, and then I'm gonna figure out can I go faster?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: And if I can, can I do it comfortably?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because this isn't changing my plan of marathon training.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, no matter the outcome here, I gotta go, you know.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly it.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I treated it like a workout.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I intentionally did my long run in the middle of the week, so I could consider this a speed workout, so it doesn't impact the rest, and that's exactly how I ran it out.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, on that though, so you started in 2022, you went straight into Marathon.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've had a lot of success very quickly, or you know, depending who you ask quickly or not, maybe how you feel about it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you've BQ'd, you've done Boston, um, BQ'd several times, um, some fast time CIM and some other races.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you attribute a lot of that success to in, you know, three years if we doing the math?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, I can't ignore the fact that I probably had the genetics and like background to run the way I do, right?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I could be like, oh, I came up from nothing because I've never run before, but I had an athletic background.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm used to working hard and I am like a decently athletic person.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um so and like my just yeah, so I I guess like I have to at least acknowledge that that I do have a little bit of an advantage there.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but my first marathon, I obviously had zero idea what I was doing, and I just followed something online that I could find and kind of wung it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't understand anything about running.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then immediately after I got a coach, um, because I had my sights on qualifying for Boston at my next marathon, and I was like, I can do this for sure, I can do this.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, like I think the success just coming comes from like building upon blocks.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've never I've incrementally brought my marathon time down like by a couple minutes per marathon.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of that's like building upon what I did last time.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I've never jumped from doing like 50 miles a week to like now I'm almost like I'm 76, like up in that area of mileage, but I didn't go from like 40 to 50 miles a week and then immediately did 76.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've grown over time and I've built like block on block on block and remained really consistent.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I also feel like I've done a really good job being smart about trusting my training, trusting my coach, and also like you're not gonna catch me doing like 730s on my easy day.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just not gonna be me.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm I'm very meticulous about protecting my easy paces and being like the slow build and not doing too much and like all of that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of feel like that helps a lot with like getting your speed up because it's like, yes, you do have to have your easy days easy, but then on the flip side, I do also work really hard in my workouts and I do push myself there and I also run with people who push me, and I'm not afraid to be the slowest one.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's like one of those things that people don't like to feel like they're last, they don't like to feel like they're behind in a in a run group, or they don't like to feel like, oh, I'm running with people faster than me and I can't really keep up, or like I have this workout, but I don't want to do it with so-and-so because they're gonna be faster than me.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I've never like strayed away from that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: I've always invited that into my training because I think it's helped me grow as an athlete and as a runner, and it's also challenged me and pushed me in ways that I probably wouldn't have been able to do on my own.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: And not being afraid of failing and trying to embrace the failure, I think has also helped a lot.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like finding out like what it feels like to fail and then not being afraid to do that on your next race is really helpful.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's um just freaking amazing.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, excuse my wide technically curse, but you get what I mean.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's a lot there to unpack for whoever's listening, and I think you know, you said you touched on that a lot of times.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like people don't want to be last, and that's why they run their easy too fast.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they don't go to a track work.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've been guilty of some of these, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, where it's like, oh, I don't want to go to track because everyone's running sixes, fives, and I'm probably gonna do sevens, you know, and it's you gotta put in the work and just be consistent, you know.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Also with the mileage, you said you didn't automatically jump up.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people are jumping up way too fast right now because everything's like high mileage, or you see an influencer or YouTube or something, and you're like, okay, um, I've read the studies.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a study out there for those that BQ.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently, the average is over 60, 70 miles per week for BQ, and I've seen people BQ on 40.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not the norm, but you know, your fitness where you add background to that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I don't, I don't know.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think it's hard.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I am also one of those people who puts a lot on Instagram.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I do, I do use that platform, I use social media.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: But comparing yourself to someone else and not understanding what's behind the scene or their background is really one of those like traps that you're gonna get into.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like you said, like maybe the statistics do say 60 miles a week, but like uh two or three of my BQs came from lower than that mileage, like 55 to even like 40 miles a week.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I have friends who are running sub-three marathons and like doing insane, insane races, like on 35, not even hitting 40 miles a week.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, so it's just really hard to compare yourself to someone else's, and like what works for you isn't gonna work for someone um that even is has the same goals as you do, you know.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, agreed.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like the background's so important.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of a friend that you just said, like, for some reason, every time he runs, he can't do high mileage, but he will go out there and do a six-minute, 15-minute uh 15-mile run, and you're just like, How?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: But he grew up playing soccer, you know, running his whole life.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his whole life, you know, doing workouts and running across field, and he just has that fitness.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you ask him to do a two and a half hour run, no, not until race day.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about the, you know, it sounds like you have a lot of community and help, and you got to track.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: You basically started a track club out there in Grand Rapids.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: How'd that come about?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit more about that society track club and what's that mean to you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so um honestly, I was I got into running because of the community.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was a huge draw for me.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: That run one run club that I went to and meeting that one girl was like very life-changing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like having someone be really nice to me that I've never met and feeling like I belong somewhere is what I really wanted after being on a sports team for so long.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: And um as I was working towards the Boston qualifying time and I and wanting to get faster, that involved putting in work beyond just easy runs.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted people to do that with me.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: But I found that a lot of the people that were in my running community at that time were a little bit hesitant to like go to the track.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm not fast enough for that, or like, uh, like my goals aren't, you know, X, Y, or Z.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: So why would I go there?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, just like that fear of being on the track and even how to do a track workout.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of people don't understand what goes into a track workout because it's not a part of their everyday life.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also like if you're not, if you're an adult and you just started running and you don't have a coach, track workouts might be just like completely foreign to you in the sense of like you're just going out there, you're doing your runs.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you add a little bit faster miles, sometimes you don't, but like you've never had a structure there.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I started doing these things that I called them like max track days.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I luckily had a coach who would be involved in that, and he showed up on the track and he had the track workout all ready for us.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: And there was like 13 people who showed up to day one.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: We all did this track workout together and it was fun.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: We like split in different paces.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing about the track is that you can't really get lost, no one gets left behind because you're just going in a circle, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like, yep, it's no one's gonna be left behind in a circle.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're not starting at the same time and you are like, okay, this person will go off, and then 10 seconds later, this person, you really don't know the speeds anyone's going.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a lot of fun there.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: Then I hosted another one the next month, and we had 30 people come.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then now our last track, yeah, and our last uh track workout that we just hosted in August had over 73 people come, which is like yeah, it's like that's wild.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: But ultimately, I didn't want these track days to be like linked to me as a person because I I'm not doing it.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yes, selfishly, I wanted people to do my track workout with me because I didn't want to be alone, but like I didn't want this to be my thing, I wanted this to be their thing.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like I wanted to have a day.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I wanted to have a day where like if I didn't show up, it still would happen.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't need to be there.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I wanted these people to come there and like meet their own friends and like find their own success there.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: And people were like, Oh, well, you know, can Max track day come and you know, come to this race with a booth?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Absolutely not.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna advertise like my own track, like that's just weird.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I started thinking about it and I was like, I think we can make this into like a track club and do it every month.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I came up with the name.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and like an uh well, actually, my fiance came up with the name.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I came up with like the little cheetah because I love cats, and like from yes, so there's not a ton of like reasoning behind it.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, then from there we were like we started getting this draw of of people who wanted to be on a racing team, and so that brought on like, okay, so now we have this track day that happens every month, then that transitioned into let's form a track team off of this that doesn't go off a pace, it goes off of effort, right?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can be a six-hour marathoner or you can be a 233 marathoner and be on the same team because it's all about like wanting to put in the hard work and it doesn't matter what that effort looks like in terms of pace, but rather like having that community to build on.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so now we have 30 athletes on the racing team that's like connected to this monthly track workout, and that again spiraled into okay, now people really want to meet every week.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: So now we like do a run club every Thursday, and the once a month is our uh track workouts, but yeah, and it's it's been great.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like we volunteer, we have a pretty decent like community that just like all hangs out together.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: People have you know met each other, and obviously, like with nowadays, there's been people who have gotten together in relationships, people have met their best friends through it, like right, and it's just like I have had like a lot of um, I don't know, it's been very rewarding seeing like track days and also like people who have joined the track team and watching them grow as athletes.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like that has been such a real like a such a cool thing to see, like someone who comes on to the team or comes to one of our track workouts or even just one of our community runs, and it's like, I have these big goals, and like let's say it's to break two hours and a half, and then all of a sudden, like the next like after a month or two months go by, they're like, actually, like I'm gonna go for 130.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can do this, you know, and like watching them be inspired by the people who show up, and like it's a space that I felt like we could move into as a community of like not necessarily just the social aspect of running, but having the aspect of like being inspired by the people you surround yourself with and working hard together, no matter what that looks like.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of like the whole purpose of Society Track Club and and like what we're trying to build, I guess, like in this in this area.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's really cool.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it looks amazing, very inviting.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh we we spoke before this, like I didn't get to go, I was in Michigan recently and could have come out.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I already have FOMO.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for those listening.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you're in the area or in the area, definitely check it out.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um tell me a little bit about how um, like how'd you get a coach?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: How how what what sort of challenges did you see organizing this?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why'd you get the track to like, okay, this is our day.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how'd that come about and some challenges you've seen with running the club?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I was very lucky that my coach wanted to be involved in the community, and like that was a big draw, was like just like giving back to runners and giving back to the running community.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: So he was very, very much like, yeah, let's let's go for this.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'll show up there, I'll write the workouts like 100%.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um obviously, like running a any sort of run club, like the challenges that you run into are like making a space for everyone.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's really hard.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's I think that was a lot more challenging than I thought because I thought that right, like you think, oh, you you create this thing, you have a date, you have a time, you say anyone can come, but like, does that really mean that anyone feels like they're welcome to come?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I got really good advice from running uh leaders, run leaders like in the community and like in the great greater like Michigan community, specifically like my friends in in the Detroit run clubs, they've been really, really helpful.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: Of being like, if you say that like your run club is for anyone, you need to be sure that like if anyone shows up, no matter who it is, like you feel comfortable.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: If you have an if you feel uncomfortable with anyone who shows up, you're not ready for it.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like taking that into every time that I like host an event or I like put something out on Instagram for the the club and things like that is has been really helpful.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like thinking about like, okay, I say that this is all people, all paces.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: How am I gonna make sure that that's true?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what am I gonna do?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like a host, you know, for the house.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you're coming into this house, yeah, food for you, for you, you know, pacing.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I learned over time that like unfortunately, like I'm just I'm I'm gonna fail at it.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I fail at it sometimes.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I have had people in the past who are like, I feel like I can't come to society because you run too fast.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like that sucks.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: I hate hearing that, and I have to adapt and try to figure out ways to make it different, but I'm also like have to come to terms with the fact that like it's it's really hard to cater to everyone.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And like all I can do is be prepared and continue like growing as a person and continue like trying to make sure that everyone who does show up um is prepared as well and like understands how to be a good person and how to like contribute to the community and things like that, and making sure that that's a space where everyone feels safe to come.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's like all I can do.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: But that's been probably like one of the most challenging things um in terms of the run club.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, when it comes to the actual like competitive track team and uh racing team, that's like having uh honestly the whole thing, like society track club, I consider it like my second full-time job.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like it is a lot of work.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I have 30, well, 29, I guess if you include me, 29 adults who all have their own lives.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like some of them have children, some of them um, you know, have travel a lot for work.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: They all have different goals, they all have different schedules.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and I'm like responsible for making sure that they all abide by our guidelines, you know, put whatever that like the best that they can out into the community, that they're running their miles, that they're like prepped for races.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's really hard to um do that, especially when it comes to adults who sign up to be on this, but don't necessarily nothing that we do costs money.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: We try to keep everything like free as much as we can because I mean that's one way that we can be inclusive, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: Is like not having an in charge to be on the team or it also makes it hard too.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like that that's also pretty challenging, is like trying to again, it's like just catering to different people.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like people are always going to people, I guess, if that's that's the best way I can put it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like yeah, everyone's different, yeah, like everyone's different.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that um the other thing is that like everyone's very not selfish, but like self-centered in the sense of like we all go into everything we do really focused on us.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like you go to the beach and you're so worried that everyone's looking at you, but it's like everyone's also all thinking about what they look like, like nobody else is concerned with anyone else, and it's like handling that at a scale and trying to make it inclusive and a good place to be, and also fun and productive and like putting all these things together and like having that also be the truth is really hard.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, I mean that's a lot there, honestly.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it sounds like you are um thinking of a lot of it, which is Most of the battle, if you will, right?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I I say that nerding out and thinking of like four books in my head right now.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Once he said people will people of like human behavior and psychology, but uh acknowledging and thinking of it is a big one, and and you're having a big turnout.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I haven't been, but I say you're doing well.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I say that is, you know, I've moved around a little bit, we spoke a bit, and yeah, 30, 70 people on some first events for a track club.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: That that's that's a little a little bigger than normal uh from what I've seen.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Even some track clubs here in Denver don't see that big of a turnout.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's definitely uh something going well and people showing up, you know.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sure, it could be 150, but that well, that's a lot, and I don't want to stress it out some more.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that's like that's also the thing is I hope that people see that the goal is not to have the biggest turnout.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, my goal is never to bring in as many people as I like collect all the different runners and like have this giant group.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like the goal is like to hopefully provide something that people are getting the most out of.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not getting anything out of it, like I don't want you to just come just for me to say, oh, we had 150 people show up today.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like the goal is like that the people who do show up, even if it's five or 10, which I like still get scared every time I host an event, even though I know the track team has to be there, like the racing team, and that's 30 people.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: I still get afraid no one's gonna show up.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: But like, even if no one does, or five people do, like, my goal is that those people get a lot out of it, not necessarily that we have the biggest turnout.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I try to like always lead with that mindset of like it's not about making this huge and everyone knowing our name and it being a giant thing, it's about like truly giving back and like having people feel what I feel about running and about the running community and always leading with that.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, it it's it's going well, like I mentioned.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've even seen some of the merch, which I'm one of those people that usually doesn't want to touch the merch.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I would rock this.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad different way.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'll have to tell Kelsey.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: She uh one of our team members is a graphic designer and she's kind of like uh going beyond her corporate job and trying to uh explore what else she can do.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: So she she really led that and she was like, I really want to create some merch and and everything that we like profited from that we gave back to her for like doing that, those great you know, graphics and working on that and stuff like that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: So she'll be happy to hear that you love them.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: So she put a lot of letter know.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'll wait till I do a first event with you guys out there when I'm visiting fam, and then I'll maybe rock some people can ask me, where is that?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have no idea.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let me put you on.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, love it.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Touching on that, you you talked about Instagram, right?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: So on your Instagram, uh, which seems very fun and also why I want to ask you on.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you do a great job with that as well.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm getting at is run fits.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: You seem to post a lot of run fits, and uh, as someone who grew up in New York, you know, trying to have the freshest Jordans and and and you know, I won't get into more details than that, but you know, you we we we like fitness and fashion and whatnot.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um talk to him about run fits, you know, like you share a lot of run fits.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do you like?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we'll get into sneakers here in a bit.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: But uh is that something that's like a passion for you?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um I do like dressing well, I guess.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I I want to say like I do like fashion, but I also am like I don't necessarily know if I'm like the most fashionable person in general.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but obviously, like look good, feel good, you know?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's half the battle is like making sure you're confident.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: We talked about a lot, a lot of that um about like just being confident in general.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I have been really loving, so everyone really loves Bandit.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I I do like Bandit.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really own a ton of Bandit, I own one pair of shorts.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: I do like them, but I don't I don't own a ton of them.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I've been really into the like sports bras with the packets, like I do like things like that, and I like color coordinating and stuff like that, but um, I'm also probably not gonna be the first one to go out and buy a bunch of new things.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would love to.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: I really would.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: But uh I also am trying to be feasible, I guess.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but let's see, I I do like bandits shorts.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: I like anything that has pockets, pockets are huge, especially for women, right?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like pockets are great.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I also have this weird thing where like I don't like clothing touching me when I'm running.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds really weird, but like most of the time on like online, you'll see that I'm always in like a sports bra and like usually spandex.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't wear a ton of flowy shorts, and it's because I don't, I don't like that.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why it bothers me.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I get what you mean now.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, I get what you mean now.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: So like having like the loose t-shirts and things like that, it's like sometimes I I'm just like not not really great with that.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm trying to think of like other fashion.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've been obviously like Socony, I've been getting into Socny.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: They have some some good like different uh fashion items.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: I wish they'd expand a little bit more in their clothing department because I do like everything they made, but I I like when people have um fun colors and like cool cuts.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: There is this company that I really love for two reasons.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: One, because everything they make is super unique, like they they have different styles of everything, which is cool, and they also have really bright colors, and it's called For the Run.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know for the Run, yeah.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, okay.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: And the other side of that is that it's super affordable.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't have to pay$70 for an article of clothing, like I can buy an entire outfit for$70,$70, right?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: And like that that affordable aspect of it is really nice, and I just like the quality is is soft, and so I really like um like their stuff right now.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm big on that.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: I bought like a ton of things because they had a huge sale, and so I was like, I'm just gonna stock up on that.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I feel like I'm a bit more exploratory when it comes to shoes.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: I pretty much have had like the same running clothes like consistently, but shoes I've explored a lot of different shoes.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I've been very uh thankful and and I I guess like privileged to be able to do that.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's maybe where I have been exploring a bit more right now.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: I am big, I have like I so Nike has actually has come out with a lot of good shoes lately, which I have never been like dare I say it, a big Nike running shoe girl, other than I did race in the vapor flies for a couple of my marathons and loved them.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um but other than that, like I never trained in Nike, but they like the Bomeros and the Peg Premiums and all of those, I've actually been a really big fan.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I was surprised because I I swore I was like, I not really a Nike girl, like just I think most people like if you look at maybe say the fast five years or so, yeah, like Nike just hasn't been it, and and um they were it, you know, Vaporfly 2, classic.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the the Pegasus 37 and then everything before that, like, oh everyone, right?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then um I'm a big Nike guy, mostly not as much anymore, similar to like most people, but like you know, something about New York.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: We grew up on Nike, like you go in New York, most people were in Nike, like the other brands are kind of blasphemous, except for running now because we got bandit, bandits from Brooklyn.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm from Brooklyn, so I I do rock some bandit.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um I like it, I like it.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't I don't have the little membership thing that everyone has.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: I had it and I no longer have it.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, um, so I just haven't like been able to explore it, and also I feel like my wallet would be hurting, but I'm always jealous of seeing all the bandit fits, and I'm like, so cool.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: I like their socks though.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: I will say, like, the one thing I will splurge on is bandit socks.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: I do have like four or five pairs of them because I love them.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: I love their socks.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm a big sock guy, like my socks gotta like one look good and like feel good.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if it don't feel good, socks, I ain't wearing it.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, definitely tube socks, longer socks.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: We ain't doing the the the ankles, no, my ankles cannot be seen.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: No ankles in the cut.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but but going back to shoes, yeah.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I have the Vomeros, I will say I'm not in love with them.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: I do wear them, but I'm not in love with them.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm shocked you like the premiums.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I heard they're heavy.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so this is hear me out.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: I like heavy shoes.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: My easy run.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's because maybe it forces me to slow down for my easy runs.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like the peg premiums, um, the Brooks Hyperion, I think they're the Maxes, like the big, big people, Skype, right?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: The Saukney Hurricanes, love them.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: And those are all really heavy big shoes.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I use those for like my easy runs.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's because like I don't need a light shoe.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm just out there like for cushioning.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I I just I'm slowing down.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: I have no intention of I'm very conversational.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not trying to blast off.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm okay with those, and I like those because then for like my speed days, I'll change into maybe like my old expired um carbon-plated shoes for that I've used for braces, or um, maybe like my lighter shoes.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I am okay with the heavier shoes because I need my body to recover, and those have a lot of the cushioning on them.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I do like the heavier shoes, but I I know they are heavy.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very, I'm very well.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do hear you on that.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, funny enough, that's the only reason I like the Vomeros.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: I feel they um force me to slow down.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: And some of those days where I'm beat up or I want recovery, I'll throw them on because like I know regardless of how fast I want to go, the shoe's gonna hold me back, and that's what I need on that run.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I do like that.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess my beef with them is still the weight, but it's also a plus.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, fair.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't even notice the weight, I guess.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I don't I I also will say, and I've I've said this to a few people that I run with too, is that my my feet are like I'm not they're not super sensitive to shoes.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know some people are like, I have to run in this shoe, like I can only run in the Brooke's ghost, and that is it, and I'm gonna be in that ghost until I get to race day, and then I'm gonna have my race shoes, and I'm very much like flexible with I've never had an issue with switching stack heights and like weights and types and brands.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can pretty much adapt to all of them.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I that I'm lucky in that sense.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm similar in that regard um to a degree.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think the like stack heights, I don't care.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people are like, oh, 10 mil is too high, which is usually Nike or like lower.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I only have one brand, and I won't name because I'm not trying to crap on brands or anything, but that I don't wear because it hurts my knees.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll just say the lower the drop, like once it's too low, I just don't favor them.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll we'll leave it at that.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: I immediately know.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, yeah.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: I and to be fair, there's only that I think that's probably the only brand I've ever tried a shoe from.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: I will say, like, my tried and true shoe that I use for like most of my trainings, which I don't actually have a pair right now, um, that I really loved is the New Balance 1080 version 13s.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's so specific, but I loved those shoes.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_03: I love them so much.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: I could I remember so I travel, like I said, I traveled to for work a lot, and um one of the places I would I you're obviously not gonna like take a ton of shoes.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: I try to take as little as I can.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: I take usually like two pairs of running shoes, but I could take those and I could do both my easy runs and also like I could get rolling in them.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: I could I could get into a tempo in them, and I love that about those shoes, but um yeah, so I did I did really love that.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great shoe.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love those.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I destroyed one of those uh uh when they came out.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um I have this funny enough, you just gave me an idea of something I've been thinking about of people who fast is relative, right?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just for everyone listening, you know, we all have our our own paces that we need to hit and want to hit and goals and whatnot.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had this theory and I want to ask you on it.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of came to me now.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: But you mentioned for your speed days, you use like an old ratio, right?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had this thought the more I delve into it, and I I watch the the pros, I look at the elites, I read the books, the the whole nine yards.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've no it might be a hot take or a bad take.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is what it is, but um I've noticed most that once you start going faster, you take a little more serious, they don't use the quote unquote tempo trainer.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, if we were to take a speed five, right?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, versus like let me wear the Pro 4 in Saucony or in Nike, I'm gonna wear the Vaporfly versus they keep changing their tempo, but the zoom fly, if you will, like they tend to use the race shoe for their speed workouts and faster work versus like we ain't rocking the tempo shoe anymore, and it's more like the beginner entry level um on tempo.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I was curious to ask you, like, for speed, do you always use a race shoe?
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's such an interesting take that I've never thought of.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm wondering if it's because that's another shoe you have to buy versus like using an old race shoe that like you're no longer gonna race in.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's accessible, it's already there.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I used to be really afraid to put, I had this thing where I was never gonna wear a carbon-plated shoe until race day.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was my thing.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: It was I was gonna do all of my workouts in like maybe a plastic plated shoe if I had it, or like just my regular um trainers, because in my head I was like, well, if I can do it in my trainers, imagine how fast I'll be on race day if I put on a carbon shoe.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: And like that was my whole thing.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: But then I was starting to be like for me, and I think just in general for running, again, confidence is like in in mental is like 85% of the sport.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like 85% is like no, like having that confidence and being mentally strong and like all of that, the mental battle of running.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so for me, being able to hit my workouts was a lot more important than like and feeling good, like feeling comfortable, rather than like, oh, I have to struggle through like my heavy shoe and being able to hit my temple in my heavy shoe because I know it'll pay off for race day.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I also flat out asked my coach, like, does it matter?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, does it matter if after my workout I switch into these old race shoes that I'm not gonna run in and I use those for my you know track workouts or whatever I'm doing?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: And he was basically like, No, the only reason I wouldn't recommend it for every run is because it's the stability's not there, they're not stable shoes, right?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're not good for recovery, right?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like we're not trying to have your ankles fall off pretty much.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, maybe don't wear them for like your long runs if if you only have like a two-mile, you know, hard pace in the middle.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like maybe just wear like a lighter shoe.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, my like very much strategy is I will do my warm-up and my cooldown in my trainers, whatever they are, like trainer of choice for that day.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: But then for the actual like um effort pace, I will wear my old race shoes.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or I did have I'm having some longer, like long run workouts.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: So like I have 10 miles at marathon pace in the middle or like 14 miles at marathon pace in the middle of long runs.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: For those, I will wear like my um the race shoes for the whole, yeah.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll do it for the whole run because I usually we'll have a smaller uh warm-up.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I also am trying not to stop as much in those.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, my coach is pretty heavy hitter when it comes to workouts on like continuous, which is okay.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and most of the time it's like you do your simulating race day, right?
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: So two mile warm up and then taking that pause for like five to ten minutes, like you would in a race, right?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna go right from warm-up into your your race day.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: So taking that pause, changing your shoes, going to the bathroom, doing whatever you need.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: I take a gel, and then going out and doing your fast miles, but for the fast things that you're doing, not stopping unless it's prescribed, right?
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so I will wear my old race day shoes or the ones I'm planning on running.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: If I have an extra pair of those, I'll I'll simulate that as well for long runs type of thing.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: So see, no tempo.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't have a tempo shoe.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: The closest thing I have, I think, is this a tempo shoe?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's the Hyperion Max.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it has like the plastic plate.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Technically a tempo shoe, yeah.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: I do really like that shoe.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I do have great things.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard great things.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say I like I do love that shoe.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I don't I don't know if I would I don't use it as a tempo shoe though.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'll typically do like just regular miles in them.
• 1:00:59
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't I don't think I use it the way it should be used, I guess, in that sense.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it that happens like for example, Evo SL is one of my favorite shoes right now.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm on like my third, maybe fourth pair soon, and I technically daily it where some people, hey, it's steady threshold, and I'm like, I don't like it for that.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, so I think everyone finds a shoe and they use it how they will.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um like I've seen people do workouts, well, not like a full-on blown workout, but like long runs and stuff in Vomeros, and technically the cushion is there.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just do easy stuff.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, the weight bothers me for a long effort, anything over an hour, which is totally fine.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that that's just a theory I've noticed.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've also seen a lot of the pros.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: The pros that kind of make sense why you don't use the tempo shoe.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, I've been noticing that people, once they like have a lot of pacework as you described, they they don't really rock the tempo.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going through that in my block now where like I didn't buy a tempo shoe this year.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm running in uh currently I'm all on Puma right now.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Their their ratio, I'm loving that shoe.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I might buy a second pair for Indy.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I've I've I had questions.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: I tried them at Boston, like in when Puma had like the release of it, they had it the a demo pair.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I I've been very curious about that shoe.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the DV8 Nitro 3, just to be specific.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the one I like.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I know they have the other one, which technically you gotta be a lot faster, I think, for it and just I'm probably not there yet for that shoe, but the DV8 Nitro 3.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got a good I ran my 10k in it.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do all my I have a couple of crazy workouts coming up, which I'm gonna do long running.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, I'm gonna alternate it with another shoe and pick between that and maybe the Adidas, we'll put it that way.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um interesting.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's some of your uh favorite shoes that you got going on right now?
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you mentioned the premium, you got the high period max.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: What do you race it in or speed work?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: I am racing in the Socony Elite uh Endorphant Elite 2s.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yep, so I raced my 10 mile in those.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're unlike any.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I have tried every super shoe except for I don't think Ultra has one.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's just I don't know if they updated it as of a few years ago.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: I've never tried their shoe and I've never tried Hoka's new race shoe.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I've tried all the other ones.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: We did like a super shoe demo here, and I've also just been um just like switch out race shoes a lot.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say the endorphin elite twos are like no race shoe that I have ever tried before.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm dying to try those.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: They're so interesting.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think they work really well, especially for the way that my I run.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm a like a midfoot to like this forefront, four foot, four foot maybe.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, midfoot, four foot.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like that's how I run.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: I so I can't speak for like heel strikes or anything like that, but um, it definitely propels you forward.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: There is a lot of cushion, but at the same time, it's like when it interacts with the road, it hardens.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a really interesting shoe because you have the cushion, but you also have the firm spring as well.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I've been really loving that.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've used it for obviously like I got like I said, the 10 mile that I ran yesterday, and then I had um my first like bigger effort of eight to ten miles at Marathon Pace in my long run.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I did like the whole run in the race shoes as well, and I really liked it.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: And um so I I'll be running indie in in that, so I'll kit it out.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: I want to try those.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've I have a friend who's a tester for them, and he just he raves about those, and the energy return looks insane.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like that might be a shoe to try.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: I know, and I'm thinking specifically for the marathon, because obviously, like my long runs aren't I'm not running a marathon in my long runs.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know some people do that, that's just not not what I'm doing.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I think specifically for the marathon, having that cushion there is gonna be nice when you get to like 25, 26, and you're like, oh my gosh, I've been on my feet forever.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_03: You still get the spring, but you also are the impact is not like crazy to your body where there's no cushion because you have like the vapor flies, the alpha flies who have a lot less.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's firm and it's narrow, right?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it'll be fine.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: I regrettably did my first marathon in vaporfly threes in uh new then that never again.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: Unless I get to low twos and never yeah, I I run a marathon in the threes, I've run two marathons in the twos.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I did one marathon in the ASICs MetaSpeed Paris, and I did one marathon in the New Balance Super Comps.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: The twos, I think they're the twos.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I I've run a lot of different races and a lot of different shoes because I said I'm not super picky about it.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think No, I like that, yeah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: So my top shoe picks for like race shoes is the Soconese, obviously.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm picking.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: them for indie and then I did really like basics that was that was probably second top for me.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: How's the training for indie going?
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what are you learning?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: What what new insights are you getting for for this uh race in eight weeks?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, I can't believe it's eight weeks away.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's good.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: I um I'm trying to figure out what my goal is.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I started I really wanted to break 310 at CIM.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't my day.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly since last November I ran the indie half and it's been basically since around that time till yesterday's race I have not had a single race where I didn't stop the race completely and like have kind of a mini breakdown on the course or have like a panic attack during the race.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've just like not had a good experience racing.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it I don't know why I think like I've just I mean everyone gets in their head as a runner and having I don't know it just feels like the confidence wasn't there.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was having fun running but I I felt really almost like overwhelmed with the feeling of comparison and comparing where I'm at to where the people I'm running is are at and where other people are at I see on social media and like feeling like you know my fast wasn't even good enough anymore and just like not being like I don't know it just it was I was really really struggling.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I sent 310 for CIM and I didn't hit it.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: I got 313 and that was kind of like one of those moments where it was like I knew it was in there.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was so fit at CIM I felt I paced my friend for like 14 miles at a sub three marathon pace.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: So like then I show up at CIM and I can't even hit my 310 goal and it was just like a big hit.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: So this marathon build I've been really working on like building that confidence and like just like trying to find that part of me again that I felt like I had before and I feel really good about my training.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: I feel really good about trusting in my coach and like having that goal of 310 but I feel like I might adjust and potentially bring it lower.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've been flirting with that idea.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know I'm also like I said a very conservative racer so I wouldn't even mind going out at a 310 pace and like if I feel good cutting down.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of my workouts are like proving that I can potentially be faster than that at the marathon and ideally like I'd like to get as close to three as I can um just for for my goals but it's it's been going well a lot of mileage I um love that though a lot of really hard workouts and I also love that like I've never done 14 miles at marathon pace in a long run preparing for a marathon.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I also my coach that I have right now is super super type A and I'm super type A.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so he will like review all of my splits he'll compare my previous workouts like yesterday's race immediately after I got a text with like my results before like I had even sent them to him and he was like I compare this to your other race results that you've had over the years and this is where I think you are right now.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: And like I love that yeah the analytical part of me that needs someone to show me the facts of like why I'm doing okay and like where I'm at and like where I should be at and where my path is building a lot of that confidence.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah I I'm excited for Indy.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also very nervous because I want it to go well and like I said I acknowledge the fact that marathon is really unforgiving and also like because I've had such a a weird shaky year when it comes to my confidence racing I'm always like well what if on race day like I can't show up like I can't show up confident and I panic or I get to like mile 16 and I stop because I just like I've had this really bad habit of like in the middle of the race and I warned I had my friend yesterday he ran a marathon and he had already bought a bib for the 10 mile and I was like oh you can just run it with me because that's his marathon's much faster like 240 type of marathon right so like my 10 mile pace was like his marathon pace.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I was like but so you know I sometimes stop in the middle of my races and I start cussing because I get so frustrated and overwhelmed because I don't think I can do it.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like so I need to prepare you for like that will happen.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_03: It'll happen out of the blue and like it's been happening at every race since last November and um it didn't happen which was great.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: I needed that but like that's been a really bad habit that I've had of like giving up and like not believing that I can do it before even my body says I can't like it's not that I'm tired.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that I'm not hitting my paces I'm still hitting them.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just frustrated and not confident and I I give up no I mean well one I appreciate you sharing that you know someone would look at your races and go, huh?
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: She she fears her times which people forget you know all runners no matter how fast you are go through this uh I was watching world champs uh last night and it's like I'm pretty sure they're going through that right now in the middle of this heat you know and it's so thank you for sharing that and um I wouldn't have known that you know looking at your times and everything we spoke I'd be like oh yeah she's just gum blazing the whole way through no I mean like I I have a lot of anxiety in general um just as a person believe it or not but I I feel like yeah that's that's a dangerous part about social media I think is like you look at people's times and you look at people's like Instagrams where they're always happy and they're always having good luck and like every race is amazing.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like I PR'd I PR'd I PR'd and it's like it's just not always going to be that way.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like and even so like some people will look at all my times and be like well you you've PR'd everything you've done.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I and it's true like I have I have PR'd all of the races that I've planned on racing.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_03: And but that doesn't necessarily like paint the full picture of what happened like I PR'd my last half marathon and my goal was like 130 and I did 130 like I don't know exact seconds but I stopped in the middle of that race multiple times and was like crying and like frustrated and I had to have someone a runner um who his name's Richard and he's an incredible person and incredible runner um and a leader in the Detroit space of run clubs and he like brought back his race time to like carry me through to the finish line because I couldn't do it.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like you wouldn't know that you just wouldn't know that those things are happening to people based on like social media and based on their race times.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like but that's that's the truth is like it's running and being an athlete and being a person in general is really hard.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_03: And like mental sport of running is really hard.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_03: And like I mentioned to you like I really needed a good day yesterday because I really needed to like go into indie feeling like I can do it.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not a habit.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's not something like I felt like for a while like since last November that like this was just something I'm gonna have to deal with because I'm gonna do it no matter the race.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm gonna stop whether it's a 5K or like I raced a mile and I was so worried that I was going to stop during the middle of a mile because I just was like this is my habit like this is just me.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_03: This is like who I am and so having like this 10 mile race like one go way better than expected pace wise but also not even feeling in like a minute of like I need to stop or I have anxiety during the middle of it and like having it go well was like I needed that.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_03: I needed something like a win even if I would have like that like momentum and stuff yeah yeah like and so I hope to carry that through the next eight weeks to indie to be able to like show up on that line and like give it my all and feel really proud of it.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm also fully prepared that like it's just sometimes not going to be my day and like having the skill set mentally and physically to like deal with that when it does happen is like something that every runner needs to be prepared to do.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah for sure um you know like we all go through it like I'm going through it I don't technically stop my problem is I go too far but we all have a problem right yeah like I'll go down the paint cave like hey I think this might be hurting and I might cause injury but you know what I'll just keep going but um you know it's part of running I mean I think you said it like best it's unforgiving and and that's part of the beauty for me at least like in in running and marathoning that like you never know what you're gonna get on I haven't had my breakthrough one yet I'm hoping India is and I'm training for it.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on pace it's looking good yeah yeah but yeah but it's like it's a marathon like you I don't know I always am like there's um one of my friends is is uh uh videographer and he made a documentary of our CIM journey and like we all talked like all the people he filmed in that talked about like training and running a marathon is just so unpredictable like not only on race day right like you have 26.2 miles that you somehow have to make it through and like you could have the best 20 miles of your life and the last six you just yeah it you don't know it could be like the last I had a friend who ran CIM and he was on track for a sub 230 until the last like mile and he had to walk he had to like walk that whole mile because he was cramping up and it's like then you have not only that but you have the training that goes in before the marathon and it's like getting through a training block is an entire like a whole battle in itself because you have to be healthy the whole time like you yeah you know like you mentioned you have to like make sure you're fueling enough like being prepared like physically like for strength and stretching and mobility and you have all of these things and making sure you don't push it or you don't you know it's just it's it's a wild experience and um one of my favorite things about being a runner is that like I am a perfectionist in every facet of my life and a lot of times that holds me back from a lot of things and running has kind of taught me how to fail in a way because I do it so often I fail so often right like you fail to run easy on your easy days you fail to stretch you fail to hit every pace on your workout you fail at a race because you didn't get your goal or you didn't get a PR or like like I said or you mentally struggle like it's teaching me how to fail and then like still get back up be proud of myself for something give it 24 hours and like keep no I agree with that wholeheartedly that last part for sure like for me that's what running is it's the one arena where you can train and still fail have everything right and failure is great right failure like you learn more from failure than you do from success right if you continue having great marathon marathon marathon you're gonna push it to the point and when that failure comes you're gonna get Mike Tyson punched in the face and it's gonna be like oh and it hits harder versus like like mine obviously the journey's still um like my time I'm shooting for like a 320 something around there.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay my last two have been in the fours but I've cramped on I just told you mile seven in Chicago um but you know I feel good like um I think one thing you said about your coach that I love that I've been adopting into my running um I got my idea more from like Kenyan style running and just wanting to feel that uh what I'm getting at is the continuous like that's one thing I've been focusing on the rhythm and feel of the race um which is why I did that 10k run those paces and it was kind of like I just want to feel what this feels like.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my long runs this block will be like that like it won't be broken up much.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be like I have my first 12 miler schedule that pace where I'm just like 12 miles.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but uh yeah getting through that I feel like on the other side is gonna be like okay tired like I think it's important to take a step back if you will like um after that run you're gonna have your own it's it's gonna be like okay I was on tired legs um I I'm not tapered yet um sure I had cars but I didn't have the car bloat yet you know like things like that help me and that's what I like to like kind of think of when I can't sometimes you can't sometimes you're in your head but um you know thinking those things through and then like I'm excited as hell for India I'm gonna be honest with you like um you know the weather um there's been several people on the show that's doing indie I'm gonna meet some people in person I'm gonna have to like seek you out hey when you go into the expo like and we're gonna have to have a power all talk like yo you are doing three nine something you know it's cool too because so we always pick races as a team a racing team so we have 15 that's cool 15 of our racers are doing indie and honestly I think like a there at least one if not two of them will be around 320 pace so hopefully you'll you'll be able to link up with um with them and and we all have like a huge Airbnb and stuff and it's I think it'll I think it's gonna be a good race like I just have a good feeling about it day wise and just like indie I did like I said I did the half last year.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_03: It is a good atmosphere like it's a great atmosphere it's a pretty flat course like the only thing you gotta worry about is the um potholes which is you know Midwest we're in the Midwest like that's just what you get um but yeah I I think it'll be good like you know what I mean it it's gonna be a good day it's just gotta get three eight more weeks on my ankle at least in Chicago I'll say that those bridges are kind of creepy those were wild the bridges were wild and and you have to go on the little carpets and otherwise there's holes I yeah I didn't like that I felt pretty weird every time I had to go one over those and then they got the blue line so you're trying to follow the blue line but then the blue line is not on the carpet.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um funny enough I actually wore sockanese for that race and felt good uh with the grip but it was still kind of scary like yeah so potholes I'll take those over that bridge I don't know if there's bridges in Indy I don't think there is but I don't know what they'd be going even better you're just making it that much better um still but you know touching on something I want to ask you I saw this funny post you mentioned I was like okay this guy is freaking awesome uh basically I'm getting at the hubby here uh fiance you know I saw he's on the bike camera support food something about massages I'm like okay you know yeah he he honestly does the most so he's actually like um he's an incredible runner himself in general like he's super fast he's been injured um for like this last couple race seasons which is such a big bummer but he has gotten into like his creative era and that's a lot of photography so and he's amazing at photography specifically like running photography which is great for me but yeah I have a great support system whether that be like from the team or from him specifically like always making sure that I've got my fuel on me um he's always making sure like waters are filled he's biking around the course to make sure that everyone's safe like we have a rule to him and I that we will not race the same races because if someone else needs something that like we want to make sure that we can be there right and also the whole idea of like if it's someone's good day and it's someone's bad day like that's really hard to compartmentalize.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah um but yeah so he's I mean long runs he's on a bike um he's setting up aid stations like if we do a route he'll find a place to like park the car and get out an aid station for us so that we can grab things um actually my first Boston qualifying time him and I were just friends at the time and he wore a giant water pack and um used his entry to just run with me.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Him and like one um another one of our friends they both just ran with me but they carried everything for me.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they would like take my bottle from me and run to the aid station to get it filled and then catch back up to me so that I didn't have to do any of the work um which was really really nice.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just like little things like that.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean having running in general I think is a very selfish thing to do when you're in a relationship or you're in you know in a partnership or um with kids and everything right like you have to dedicate a lot of time to it.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you need that right in order to be your best self to like give back to your family.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_03: But it does take a lot of time and I acknowledge that it takes a lot of time and I'm very thankful and I don't think I would be able to do it without um him being so supportive and being like ready to help out with this and like coming to every race with me and making sure that like I don't have to worry about the stressful stuff.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like in the morning I can get ready for the race and he's gonna make sure my food is ready for me to eat.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_03: He's gonna make sure that I'm on I'm at the buses on time.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's gonna be at every single spot that he can be to catch me to make sure that I'm on paces and he's yelling out paces to me to make sure like you're on, you're on you're good you're good.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Video, you know, photos he's he's at the you know first one at the finish line with my Ufos like ready to hand me the UFO so I can take my race shoes off like getting the car carrying my giant backpack like um it's it's definitely like for running being a solo sport it's also like such a team effort like whether that be Yeah it takes available yeah whether that be the people like you're actually running with and your pacers and the people who work the A station but also like your friends, your family, your partner like everyone has to be involved in it like it it to make it go smoothly.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah I'm very thankful that I am um getting married to someone who is so supportive of what I love to do and so involved in it and and shows up when I need them to and even when I don't ask and so I do love that.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to the fiance you freaking rock going above and beyond uh you are the village.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I mean so Chicago he um when I ran my my first Chicago why I've only run it once but when I ran Chicago it was my third marathon and he rollerbladed 26.2 miles.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_03: What he rollerbladed the sidewalks the whole time to make sure like that I was doing okay.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's wild so wild things like that where it's like that's crazy.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's actually insane like and he had a marathon the next weekend and and still did that.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like yeah that is an insane thing to do for someone else and um so but yeah he he would do that for any of his friends too and and I just love that about him.
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's great having someone who's who's there to do that.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah a few quick questions for you um what's your favorite track workout?
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious now since you essentially have a track club uh yes um I really love 400s 400s okay I was not expecting that I love 400s I'm I'm guessing thinking like track workouts I do yeah I love 400s I'm thinking of them not as like a tempo run I I consider those like off the track for the most part I also really like mile repeats okay I really like them I don't know what it is about mile repeats but I can like when I've done a mile trial I'm always almost identical to when I do mile repeats like my racing mile and my mile repeats are typically the same don't know how that happens um so I do love those I hate 1200s I hate K's I don't like those in between ones I don't like 800s like I don't like them um but my uh favorite right now is K repeats hilariously enough yeah why why do you like those you're not even ending at the same spot you started at and that just I don't like that see the thing is like one I can run it on the track or off the track um and it's the effort is uh more threshold versus like VO2 you know so I just like the threshold and and that whole rhythm thing we were talking about like 400s like yeah I'm all out I'm gassed I recover I'm gonna go get gassed again where like a K or 2K repeat um 2K is something I've been focusing on a lot for this build because it's a little bit longer and uh lets me do more closer to marathon.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously it's still faster because threshold but it's a rhythm thing like I get the I'm more of a rhythm person I guess I'm learning now and it's something I've been figuring out where like 400 is just like bam bam again you know um that's why that's so funny.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I just those I don't like those they don't make sense to me like there's I'm like well what is this gonna do what am I supposed to do it makes sense when you're going on the track often track club and all that you know I I get it um 400s is something post post India I want to focus on like just it goes by so fast though I will say like track workouts I can like I do like that yeah you can piece together like 12 miles and you feel like because you're only focused on like the actual intervals and you're like okay I've got you know let's just say 16 400 it's like one then you chip them off one by one and it's like all of a sudden you're cooling down you're like oh I'm at 12 miles like cool like that's crazy that that went by so fast.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah by the time you're tired you're like okay cool down so that that is a perk but you are really tired really tired yeah for sure so what's uh your favorite recovery food or tool to use or both food or tool um I'm a big rot on the couch kind of girl but sleep okay I I did recently purchase a Theragun like the little Theragun thing and I love that thing.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_03: I had a knockoff one from um just like online somewhere and I finally invested in like a nice name brand one and I love it.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_03: It helps so much.
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_03: I also am a big go to PT if you don't need it even kind of girl.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I do PT and sports massages just like throughout my build once I get like 10 weeks out just for like maintenance, making sure everything's good, finding exercises, getting my hips realigned if I need them, um, and like that sort of thing.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I do a lot of maintenance work um for my like recovery.
• 1:27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that that's smart.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um unfortunately I've been to PT too many times where I I design it in my head now.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_03: It means bad things, right?
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like yeah.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean now it's good because you I learned the hard way, but you know, for those listening, if you can go to a PT, go to a PT, do do the exercises better to do them through your block than oh crap, I'm injured.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do it now.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll take the first one all day.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly right.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're like preemptive versus like reactive.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's your uh dream race?
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have you done it already or or not?
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_03: Dream race.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I know a lot of people would say Boston.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was pretty butthurt because the first time I qualified for Boston, I didn't make it in the cutoff.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so in my head, I was like, I'm never running Boston.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't even like I was just so butthurt.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I don't even care about Boston, whatever.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, obviously, I reapplied the next year when I made it in with a bit of bigger of a buffer, and I did run it and it was an amazing race.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't necessarily know I if I would say like that was my like dream race.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was like my dream goal to make it in.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I would love to do uh like one overseas, maybe like a one in like Europe somewhere.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_03: I would love to do um Berlin, I've heard is really great.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm not a huge majors girl because I get very easily overwhelmed.
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so like I felt like Chicago, I felt like I was trapped in a zoo because people were jumping fences and like yelling, and I didn't love that.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_03: I love the ones where you could walk up to the start line and and like be chill about it.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I get that, yeah.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, but I oh I did see this TikTok, of course it's a TikTok, of one in um South Africa that was like in some sort of safari type of atmosphere.
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you're like running, and they have people who have to scout out like where the lions are, so you don't run into them.
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_03: It definitely wouldn't be like a race, but it would be really cool um experience.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so maybe something more like destination-wise, where like a time goal isn't necessarily involved, but it's more so for the experience and like traveling.
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think probably um something like that.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll see if I ever do that because I I fear that right now I'm wrapped up in some time goals.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um I did run Boston just for the environment or like just to run it, and that was a really good experience for me.
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I I do recommend doing that, but right now I just feel like I am in my time goal era where I'm I'm just like kind of focused on that right now.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, so maybe maybe once I get over that hump and I and I have a little bit of uh extra time running something at a destination would be kind of fun.
• 1:30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about Boston, if you could give the listener one tip for their first BQ, chasing BQ, what would that be?
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_03: One tip for chasing BQ.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's many, but I'm asking for one here.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot, but um don't get I'm a bit again, I'm I feel like I've harped on this a few times, but like don't get wrapped up in like running your easy paces at like 8 30, even like when I was trying to qualify for Boston my first and second times, like I ran 326 for my first attempt, and then I ran 319 for my second attempt.
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_03: My easy runs were 940s.
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think other than my workouts, I never dipped in like the eights ever.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I see a lot of people who are like trying to be cue and they're running a lot of their easy runs like 830, 815, and they've never like I don't know, it just like don't get wrapped up in like trying to get close to the yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like don't get wrapped up in yeah, you don't need to prove anything.
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Don't try to prove that you can be cute before you do it.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's okay.
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't don't feel like you have to you have to be there because everyone else is there.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, take those easy runs easy, and like the miles will add up.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And when you get to that race line, start slow.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like I did my first five miles of my first and second BQs five to ten seconds slower than my goal pace, and it was okay.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing happened, like it's okay.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like better to go out and like have something in the tank when you get to the end rather than crawl.
• 1:32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Would you essentially say you run your easy pace, not caring what the pace is?
• 1:32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't I don't really care about the pace.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't like I honestly like if someone was like I run a 10 30 mile, like want to go out for five miles, I think I would have a hard time doing that because of my form.
• 1:32:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'd have to adjust my form.
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a lot, yeah.
• 1:32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but other than like form-wise, I I don't have any sort of like I have suggested paces of like my easy runs should be like an eight, I think 815 to like nine-ish right now is like where my coach says they should be, but I fall out of there a lot of times.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm sometimes in the 930s, nines.
• 1:32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't, I don't look at it.
• 1:32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm not looking down at my watch for the most part unless I'm like, Well, I feel like maybe I might be going too fast.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I typically am just like I'm out here getting time on feet.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know I have to get a certain amount of miles, it has to be easy, not really wrapped up in in how fast I'm going.
• 1:33:11
  SPEAKER_03: I also might be one of the few people who don't look at their heart rate during easy runs.
• 1:33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was just about to ask.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_03: I um my heart rate fluctuates a lot.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes I do an easy run where I'm like, this was the easiest thing I could have ever done, and my heart rate's still like almost 150.
• 1:33:28
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I do a really what I think feels really hard for a run.
• 1:33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like I and my heart rate's at like 140.
• 1:33:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I just like don't pay too much attention to it.
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_03: I also am a cybersecurity, like, I'm in I am in tech and I know like it's hard for me to be like, oh, you gotta trust a little technology thing that's on.
• 1:33:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm like this, these things break all the time.
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like they break all the time.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna invest my entire like training into like what this thing thinks my heart rate is because it doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't know what I'm going through, it doesn't know how much sleep I got.
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's just your heart rate's gonna fluctuate depending on like where you're at in life, who you are as a person, and like worrying about that is actually probably just gonna send your heart rate up.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like the more I think about my heart rate, the higher it goes.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like I just try to take all technical numbers out of easy pace.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I was told by my PT that your easy pace should basically be the same cadence that you would do any other day, but you do less work doing it.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you should put like less you should use it, yeah.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like use your body weight and like to move you forward, not like your actual muscles, because you're letting those recover.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And whatever pace happens, like just kind of happens.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a phenomenal way to put it.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've never thought of it that way.
• 1:34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and funny enough, this block is one where I'm not caring about the data, I'm more effort rhythm based.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, to your point, some easy runs.
• 1:34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, why is my heart rate 150 something?
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like phenomenal today, and like some runs, it's like when I was in Michigan, I was telling you I was running, and I knew it'd be further down because it's coming down to sea level, but I was doing my first threshold workout of the block, it was like three by ten minutes it in unknown territory, kind of like I don't know the terrain, you know, which is gonna shoot up your heart rate, and it was like 138, but I'm going hard right now, like 715.
• 1:35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, no way.
• 1:35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like you just I don't know, it's just like stressing that is just so much like some people just have a high heart rate too.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, if I go, if I go to Colorado, like and I'm doing a threshold there, my heart rate's gonna probably be way higher than here.
• 1:35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's everyone recommend doing that exactly.
• 1:35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've done um I've had times where I've traveled to Colorado for work and I've had like workouts to do, and it's it's I'm always very much like worried about my heart rate, even though it like feels different.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, it's just one of those things where it's like investing so much in that, and like I love how everyone stresses zone two, and I agree be in zone two when it comes to effort, but like I don't know, it's freaking out about a heart rate feels like a lot.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_00: You just opened up a whole Pandora's box for me.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like it feels like a lot.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like some people get really discouraged too, and like you don't want running is just something we do because we like it.
• 1:36:29
  SPEAKER_03: It we're none of us are being I'm not being paid to do this.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_03: You're not like you know what I mean.
• 1:36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is not my full-time job.
• 1:36:35
  SPEAKER_03: This is something I've chosen to do because it brings in aspects of my life.
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if it's not doing that because of a certain thing, and that thing is because your heart rate won't go down like to a 140 and it's stuck in the high 150s when you're running as slow as you possibly can for what feels normal for you, stop stop looking at it.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's not worth it.
• 1:36:57
  SPEAKER_03: That is not worth like taking the joy out of it.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of people, to your point, take the joy out of it.
• 1:37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've noticed two things.
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_00: The more mileage, because I'm going through it now.
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm a little on the U right now.
• 1:37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm averaging around 55, 60.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_00: My highest will probably go around 65, right?
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_00: For the first time ever.
• 1:37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I've noted, I feel like the more mileage you do, the less you can focus on zone two, which sounds kind of counterintuitive.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_00: But like what I'm getting at is run by effort.
• 1:37:24
  SPEAKER_00: If it feels easy, good, you're in the right area, right?
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Feel easy because you need it to recover.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I find the zone two thing is like if you're running less mileage or newer, people try to okay, I'm at 140, let me stop.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_00: When you had a good rhythm, your form was great, maybe you feel fine, like keep going, you know, like cardiac adrift is is a big thing.
• 1:37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, also, if you're running three times a week and you're focused on zone two, like you got enough recovery in the other days in the week is how I feel, but people harp on the zone two, you know, uh, which is a whole rabbit hole in itself for for another episode.
• 1:37:59
  SPEAKER_03: Totally, yeah.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 1:38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Mac, um, again, thank you.
• 1:38:04
  SPEAKER_00: This has been amazing.
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, sharing a lot.
• 1:38:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously, we're doing indie.
• 1:38:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe we can link up up there or something uh more next time in Michigan.
• 1:38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, let's do it.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_03: I would love that.
• 1:38:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Fett.
• 1:38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously in Michigan, I'm gonna hit you up because I don't know any track people or anywhere I can get a school workout.
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we should definitely do like a shakeout or something in indie.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_03: That'd be that'd be pretty fun.
• 1:38:25
  SPEAKER_03: But it's been it's been plan.
• 1:38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I'm down.
• 1:38:28
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you got a bigger crew, so maybe I tag with your crew.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, come on.
• 1:38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Bring anyone, we can do a huge one, it'll be fun.
• 1:38:35
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys heard it here first, but other than everyone listening, you know, we'll get something on and on and uh have some fun times out there.
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thanks for listening, everyone.
• 1:38:45
  SPEAKER_00: This has been the People Run podcast.
• 1:38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you got a lot from this.
• 1:38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, if you enjoyed it, share it.
• 1:38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, listen in, check us out on Instagram, YouTube, or wherever you listen to your podcast.
• 1:38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this has been Mac for those listening.
• 1:38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, have a good one, and I'll tell you guys.
• 1:39:00
  SPEAKER_00: The People Run.