Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Mopreme Shakur

Transcript

Mopreme Shakur · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. One of the most important artists of my life
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: is Tupac Shakor. One of the earliest memories I have,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: in fact of watching music on TV is seeing Tupac
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Shacor on SNL and then Biggie not that much later.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: But since Tupac died in Las Vegas, there's been all
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: kinds of conspiracy surrounding his life and death, and his
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: legacy has been picked over in ways that feel kind
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of demeaning to his music and to who he was
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: as a person. So I've always avoided any interviews that
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: have anything to do with Tupac. That is, of course,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: until moprim Shakor, Tupac's half brother, put out his new
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: book This Thug's Life. Moprimam himself is a rapper, filmmaker,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: and record producer living at the intersection of revolutionary politics
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and hip hop. He's also one of the only surviving
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: members of Tupac's group Outlaw Mortals, and the only surviving
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: member of Tupac's other group, Thug Life. He was raised
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: along with Tupac and the tradition of black liberation activism
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: them and shaped by the streets of Queens and also
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the stages of the world, not just with his brother,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: but with his own groups and also, believe it or not,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: with Oakland's own Tony Tony Tony Moprim is one of
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the only people you can go to to get the
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: truth about Pac and for the first time, Moprim is
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: telling his story. It's the first ever insider account of
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the Shakuor family, a book about brotherhood, survival, movement building,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and of course the making of Tupac's legend. This is
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my interview with
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Moprim shakur Yo. There's so much to say, so.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: You gotta come up with for dinner.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Man, please please, man, more than happy if you guys
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: have ever in Long Beach, man a come through. We
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: right up here, happy to come through any time.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of love of a lot of
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: love for you know, have a lot of love for
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: your family, appreciate you. A lot of love for the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: black panther struggle, for the struggle for black liberation. Absolutely,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and uh so just the fact that you know these
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: are all the things that you come from. I mean,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: it's just going through your book. I mean, I guess
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: we could start at the end here. Please my book
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: y'all know, I mean, it's so it's really well written,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: it's beautifully written, and we've set a lot of histories,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: but just just the closing graph. And when you think
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: about this, when you say the closing graph, Thug and Piece, Tupacamarshakor,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Fanny Shakur, Matulus Shakur, Joseph Uncle, Joey Harding, Falani, Suni, Ali,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yaki Kadafi, Quincy Jones, Lisa, Leftie Lopez, Clarence Henry, you know, Shock,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: g Big, Psych, Stretch, Big d Evans, Nate Dog, John Singleton,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: g Money, Young, Noble Laylah. I'm not even naming everyone.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Johnny cockran Uh, I mean geroniment to Joga Prat. I mean,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: there's so many lives that both you and your brother yeah,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: touched by and and it's just incredible, man, It's just incredible.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Ye it's been a ride, you know, you know, the
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: younger part of our lives were busy trying to live it.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: And uh now in my latter.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Years, you know, been thinking about the impact and you know,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: we weren't perfect, but we made an impact. You know,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I feel like we impacted our communities positively. So being
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: that we've lost so many family and crew. You know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: so I'm one of the few that could tell a
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: story to been around the longest.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: How long had you been wanting to tell this story?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, what did it? Did it take you get
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: into a certain point where you felt you could reflect
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and then and then get it down.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Or did you I started when I was locked up.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I was locked up doing something silly. I'm sitting there
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: thinking about myself and thinking about my life, and I'm like, Okay,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: this would be a productive thing to do. Get started
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: on because I knew it was gonna be necessary then
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: and over the years, do a little bit, keep going,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: do a little bit.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Then we got to the point where I needed help.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: And then uh, bean, Talia, you know once, you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: once we got together on an and agent shout out
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: to John.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It was it was it was an experience. It's a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: lot of work. It was more work than I thought. Yeah.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, thank god you have a great
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: wife and Talia. It seems like she really helps you
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: keep She really seems to know your history, man or
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: care and deep deeply care and knows it.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: She's highly educated, She's Ford fellow.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Uh you know what I'm saying, and why you masters
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: all that. I ain't got all that. I got it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I got a street PhD. You know what I'm saying.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: But uh, all the academic work is, you know, to
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: her credit, it's amazing.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: And you know she has a degree in Africana studies
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: and Latin history and studies, you know, which was necessary
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: in my story because a lot of my family was
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: connected to these international issues. You know, we were Pan Africans,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: pan Africanism. You know, my father helped fight and revolutions
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: in Africa.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: You know, so you thought it was necessary.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: At what point in your life did it hit you like,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: what being the son of a tul like that, you
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: were the son of a tulushah Kore and what that
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the heaviness of that, what that entailed?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: When I was.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: When I was like fourteen, and I saw the article
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: in the New York Times.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: A terrorists WHOA You.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Tell the story in the book about coming to the
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: top of the stairs one night because you heard your
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: dad arguing with someone and you see a bag of
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: rifles and you're thinking, yeah, yeah, And I.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Hadn't seen him kind of rifles before I was a shorty.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: I was like seven seven eight and I was like, yo,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: I don't want of news with me. You got a
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: bunch of them in there. I don't want of them
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: to me, you know. I was so, you know, but
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: I knew related to something intense and serious because he
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: was arguing with my brother's mother Moto at the time.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I was like, whoa.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: And I just never seen m sixteen before. You know,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I've been down south shooting Remington rifles and Daisy Daisy
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: BB guns. But I hadn't seen that before. But it
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: didn't register. Yeah, you know, it didn't register.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: But you see that New York Times ard call, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're putting the pieces together at
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: that point.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And then I see with Tulu Shakur mastermind. I was like, oh, whoa.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: So I was like, oh boy, it's going down.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, was the overwhelming sense at that point when
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: you read that like fear for fear for your family, fear.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: For anxiety, okay, anxiety. I'm like, what did that mean?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Where you know?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Where are you? Where are these rifles going to be
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: shot at? You know, didn't know? Yeah, didn't know.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Then I'm with my mother and I see the FBI
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: wanted post in the post office that. You know, you
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: see that in movies, but that really happened to me.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: I was like, you know, FBI most wanted and I
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: got sad because I didn't know. I know that meant
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: trouble simply, I know it meant and I didn't know
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: when I would see him again.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so that that bothered me.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: But you know, people often confuse my father and a
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Feiny's political assignments. A Feany was in the Black Panthers,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: a Harlem chapter of the Black Panthers. My father, Matulu Chico,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: was not a Black Panther. He was in the Black
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Liberation Army and part of the provencial government of the
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Republic of New Africa. But they supported each other. You know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: all these groups supported each other, the weather underground, all
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: these different groups, anti war, anti poverty, these people were
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: starting to work together. Even Malcolm and Martin were starting
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: to connect, you know, before he was murdered.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: There were a lot of radical groups, not just the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Black Panthers at that time, working to civil society right
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: through I government.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: The Irish ira folks. I mean, you know, they were
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: connected with the struggles of the world. Yeah, and that
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: that I respect it because we ain't the only ones
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: going through something, and we need allies to fight these battles.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And if you you know, and you know there's power
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: and numbers work together. That made sense to me.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people think that probably you're like
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: your childhood and Pox's childhood was was just getting indoctrinated
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: by theory, like all day every day. What was I
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: imagine reality is a little different. Imagine there was a balance.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: There was.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there was, you know, moments where it wasn't
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: just being taught about the struggles around the global struggle
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and the black struggle and how the black struggle relates
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to whatever, like what so what was the balance at home?
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: How much was it being taught you know, those global conflicts.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And then also that it was just normal family life.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Well, when I live with a Fannatulu, they were it
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: seemed they were trying to open us up to the
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: world as opposed to you know, the sick America. You know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: the different cultures. I mean, because we we practiced quansa.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: When I'm with them, we practice quansas. But don't get
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: it twisted. I love me some Christmas, okay, you know,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: and uh, there was room there was room for both
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: it was room for both. It was room and I'm
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: glad I got both of those experiences because it makes you,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: you know, smarter, Yeah, I feel Yeah.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: It gives you a complex. It gives you a more
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: complete picture of the world. But how and how was
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it perceived in the rest of the neighborhood, because I'm
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: sure also, you know entime neighbor wasn't full of the Revolutionariya,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: So for people the neighbor kind of look like your
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: parents are heavy or is.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: It like I grew up in Southside Jamaica, Queens, so
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: you know, Queens is Queens, New York, New Jersey. There's
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: a lot of you know, there's a lot of those movements,
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: the Fiper Centers, the Moor's and you know a lot
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: of island people up that way, and uh, they kind
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: of understood.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: But my in my neighborhood was stugged out.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: So when I came around my little koofi and my dashiki,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, I looked a little different,
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: but I felt good. My little African medallion. You know,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: my father wore a lot of African jewelry with with
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: with shells and beads and different colored stones and leather
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: and different, you.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Know what I mean, Like that could be cool too,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: because Matula was the coolest. You know, he was the coolest. Yeah,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: you're put in the book that even before I mean
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: like long before he was ever, when he was just
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Gerald was his birth name, Darrell. Excuse me, he was
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: always the coolest. You you said that he could always
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: get away with the most and dressed the fliest and
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: even within his own way.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Dude, in his uh in the in one of the
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: FBI files, I think it's on his wonder poster, it says.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: Know, the frequent fine dining establishments, you know what I mean.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: He had a particular type of out.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: He liked food.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: You know. He was a people person. Yeah, people, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: he loved kids. He loved kids and he was a
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: people person. And that's what you know Republican New Africa,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Republic of New Africa was doing. They were setting up
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: camps training our youth like white folks were training their youth.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: That's where the rifles were going.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I know, you and Pot shared a bunk. So I
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: imagine like a live two little kids at home, and
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: so as I rolled up, I'll kind of go down
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the hallway. I hear on John at night when it's
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: supposed to be asleep and stuff. What were the things
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you and Pop just connected over as kids? What was
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: what were what was your guys's relationship?
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Well, at that time, he was real little, so he
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: wanted to you know, he was looking at me. He
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: wanted to be like me, like you know, and and
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: I had the advantage of being with my mother and
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: queens and having Christmas. So but when I would come
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: back to Matulu and the fainties, I'll have new stuff,
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: different stuff that he would like. And uh, you know,
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: he's soaking up the game. I had some poonas he
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: wanted some poons, you know, poons was and ship and uh,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I try to guide him in the right direction.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: We we loved food and we always fought together at
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: our cousins up in the Bronx got a but the
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: licens shout out to the licenes up in the Bronx
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Leeland projects. My father would drop us off up there
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: because there was a bunch of boy cousins. You know
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: that the boys go play with the boys, and they
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: was always into something. My cousin Kenny, my cousin Billy. Yo,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: they're wild, but they very lovable, very lovable and they
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: would be always into some shit. And you know the
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: cousins fight with the cousins, you know, so it was
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: a bonding. It created a bonding thing. Oh and we
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: love karate.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Karate.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Bruce Lee was the man at the time, So everybody
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: was Bruce Lee, black, white, yellow. We all Bruce Lee.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: We all had our geys karate slippers.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So that's the time you were on, was Bruce Lee.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, that's why I ended up breaking my arm.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: We Mtulu too because Mtulu was a brown belt and
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: cut take.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you guys were in karate, right, you
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: guys were the arts.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: He takes us to the Black Panther the karate school. Yeah,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and we we we learned a little bit. You know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: we be standing there in our horse stand since they
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: come kick his trip us on our butt and pocked
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: and not like that very much, but you know that
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: was That's how it was.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Was he always uh like a like a I don't
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: know how to respectable, like a hot head. Was he
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: always uh always a temper in that way.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: He did have a temper and he had a he
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: had a big mouth. He'll tell you himself. He had
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: a big mouth, and you would have to be smarter
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: than his mouth. I mean, that's how I said. You know,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: you have to be able to control your your your
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: own emotions and temper and try to connect with him
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: because he was very passionate. He's very genuine and it
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: was sort of reactive, but you know it's coming straight
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: from his heart.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: How would that come up with you?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Guys?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Between you two as kids when you were younger.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Fighting Not only did we fight with our cousins, we
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: karate fight, played karate fight all that. You know, that
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: was a real thing.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: And uh, you know, I was bigger than him and
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: sometimes I hit him too hard and he get pissed off.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: He get pissed off a little, all the big eyebrows
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: and you know when he was when he was mad,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: and you know, it's like dude, you know. And he
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: was two three years old, so he wasn't really used
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: to having a brother yet.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And you know, but we got we got, we got,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: we got tight.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: It was a real big brother, little brother dynamic.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Then yeah, and then Matulu would walk us to school
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: hand in hand. You know, felt like leave it to
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Beaver was some ship. But walking down the streets to Harlem. Yeah, men,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: one side, park on the other walking us to school.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned in the sayings like park. For a
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: long time, I grew up thinking that Billy was his father, right.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: No, you're talking about Billy Garland. I'm telling excuse me,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Gloria Cox our globe. That's a fainty sister. Okay, and
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: she I think she got ten kids. There's a bunch
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: of We got a bunch of cousins.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, got his family is wild, their family tree is wild.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So you know, we were all in New York.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: You know, we were all in New York and while
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: we were growing up, you know, doing the school thing,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: our parents were doing they thing, you.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Know, and until eighty one, until Nayak went down.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: You want, do you want to lay out that story
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: for me for people who don't know, just kind of
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: how like the importance of nayaking and all of this
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and your your father's story and Okay.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: In Nyack, New York, there was an appropriation in progress
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: at a shopping center in Nyack, New York, and in
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: which a security guard and police officer was killed. And
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: at that point a lot of the comrades went on
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the run, most of them got caught and Matulau stayed
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: on the run. He was on the run for like
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: five years. He was accused of being part of that.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: He was charged. She did his time for that, as
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: well as deliberation of a side of chicaur.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: He was captured getting out of prison.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Correct in which she stayed free until our last days,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: and Matulau ended up serving thirty seven close to.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Thirty eight years. You know, he paid for it.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: But you know, he was a true political prisoner, which
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: this country doesn't say that we have, but his his
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: his motives were clearly political in nature.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, did your dad and Asada did they
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: ever get a was there ever a way for them
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to back channel? And over the course of time.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: And it was just too dangerous that I think he
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: was getting some messages from someone I just don't know who,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: you know, But they weren't frequent. It was just a
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: check in type thing. Even though she wasn't captured. She
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: was free in Cuba, and she would make her own
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: moves and you know, but they stayed, you know, they
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: did as much as they could. It was that's why
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I keep talking about the level of commitment in those days.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: The times are little times are different, but the social
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: impact they were having was way more intense. You know,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: the anti war folks were blowing up buildings in the US.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: There was appropriations, there was jail breaks because you know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: things are unfair. Pressure bus pipes, pressure bus pipes, and
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: kind of like you know the politics of the Republican
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: New Africa. Okay, you don't like us, you don't like us,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: you don't like us, okay, okay, Well we could solve
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: this peacefully by you people giving us these particular states
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: to be run by us our people. Since you don't
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: like us, you can't let you sell you just just
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: supposed to let you just kill us all up and
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: you know, abuse us. So we're going to have these
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: states and we're going to build our own nation because
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: we have not as well, we have not been paid
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: back reparations, which you know, it's conveniently forgotten over how
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: many years, So that that's kind of their thinking.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you don't give it to us, we
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: will have to make other arrangements.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: About to figure out how to get that in ourselves.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got just going to accept no. Okay, you
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: know they just weren't accepting no and accept the conditions
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: of our exactly exactly. The difference to me is, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: late sixties, early to mid seventies, there were a lot
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: of there was assassinations, you know here in the US.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: They were assassinations from Malcolm Martin.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Medgar Kennedy and plus Fred Hampton. We can go on.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, correct, The level of commitment was way more serious.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: When you were young. At any point, did you think
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: that was going to be your life? You would take
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: up that mantle and be a revolutionary as well, and
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: that in the same way that your father was.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we looked up to our uncles bah blah
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: blahlaud baba say cool geronimo. We looked up to them,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: but a lot of bad things started happening to them
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: and other uncles that were either where's uncle? Also, oh
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: he you know he's locked up now, and you know
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: once they go to jail. You know, that broke a
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: lot of connections. Jail all murdered, jail all murdered, jail
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: all murdered systematically because of co and tail Pro.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you even believe perhaps that cointel Pro is
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: operating on some level, maybe under another name, some version
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: of co intel Pro in the background.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Of pox career correct under a different name, under different name,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: same tactics, because why because they worked, they worked. You know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: the significant thing I think about our story is that
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: we were like the last major significant story of the
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Panthers of the era that after us the liberation of
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Asada too.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: After that period, you know that that that liberation movement.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Was was goed yeh yeh, or it just was fractured
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of the point of just not being as powerful a
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: repotement as it as it was.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: But while the thing that that you joined the military
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: ally and they didn't know who you were, that they
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: let you exactly.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: And you know, after my father got captured, I was
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: definitely gonna talk to him about it. But he knows
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: like I knew growing up. He would always call this
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: is my little soldier. This is my little soldier, My
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: little soldier. That's all as a shorty, you know, it's
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: my little soldier. And so when he went down, it's like, Damn,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I really don't know how to be a soldier yet.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: So I went to learn how to be a soldier,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: no politics attached, but there's an invaluable education in the military.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I learned how to shoot. I know, about.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Explosives, I know, some shit. Excuse my French. When I
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: went to visit him for the first time, I told.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Him and he was like, yeah, that's good, that's good.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: You know, you're gonna learn some things. And then he
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: told me about Uncle Geronimo was in the army. You know,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: it's a lot of the brothers was in the military.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't know Deronmo prot was the military.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Because now the Black Liberation Army.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Was the armed wing of the Black Panthers, so they
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: supported the Panthers, you know, armed you know, and other
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: g troops because the times were changing.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You know, they had to. They were adjusting their tactics
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: to match what was going on.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they would have loved to been peaceful,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: but if it's if they make it untenable there you're
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: supposed to do just lay down and just die.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Nah, That's why they called it the struggle.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Struggle be back with more from Moprem after the Break.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: One of the other wild things about about your story,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and I always forget, is that you and Park. You know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: obviously it's abundant family, so you guys end up apart
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: for a while, but just somehow, through fate, you guys
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: wind up in the Bay Area at the same time.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: You know, he's younger, so he's around seventeen eighteen, but
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you haven't just gotten out of the military. Find your
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: way to the Bay and to Oakland, pox the Arene,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, y'all all able to reunite.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And what it's to be wild than that.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Because Matulu was captured in lat Extra godted back to
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: New York, sentenced, and then sent back to La California.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: So we were all on the West coast, and we
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: were all on the West coast, and like I said,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: there was a bit of relief there he was captured,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: because there was talk of him not going alive. There
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: was he wasn't gonna let him take him alive, and
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: so we were concerned that he would be killed. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: but when he was captured, everybody could breathe a little bit.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: He's alive, you know, we could the families could reconnect
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: because you know, Cole and Telpro, they were all on
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: top of everybody trying to find a Sada one, then
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: trying to find him two. And then when he's captured,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: they still trying to find a Sada. You know what
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I'm saying so, yeah, it was Gully, but you and Parker.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Able to reunite because you're in the Bay area, and
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and your sister Set and.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Park Set moved there because of Geronimo's family, right, Germo's
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: family was still.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: There, and Dromo was it was in prison at that
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: time already, but his wife and kids or his woman
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and his kids. So and then that's who part goes
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: to live with for a time.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: That's where they started.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they started, and then and then the Fainty moved out.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: And then they got their their their own spot in
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Bay but they didn't have much.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: They were broke, you know. Yeah, and then we were
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: blessed enough to make it in the game.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know you were kind of shocked by
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: like the way that they were living at that time
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: when you reconnected that just it was there wasn't quite
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: as you know, it was. It was a little less
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: than you you'd imagined or hoped or i'd imagine, right
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: for your family.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, when you little, you don't you don't
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: always recognize poverty much. But I was older, so I
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: knew what poverty really was at this point, and you
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: know what was going on, And yeah, it's not hard
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: to maintain a nine to five when you got the
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: fast on you, all up in your business, trying to
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: bring you down, you know, and all the support system
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: of people that would support you, they're on them too,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: you know. So that's why, you know, I felt I
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: needed to write this story, my story. You know, I
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: don't have the only story, but I feel like my
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: story is quite significant because of you know, my relationship,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: my relationships, and for.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: History's sake, for history's sake, for their history's sake.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Their history should be remembered, it should be studied, should
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: be appreciated. And there's that history, and then there's black
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: music history. You know. I was first to to you know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: on a hip, on a hit record in our family.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, my grandmother used to make a gospel record.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying, Yeah, you got you.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: You have eight bars on Tony Tony's Feels Good. Yes, phenomenal, classic,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: classic to this day, huge, God is Good, Huge, And
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: then pop came out behold up. But how did you
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: get How did that happen that you wound up? You're
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: in the military, you moved to Oakland. How do you
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: wind up on Tony Tony record.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Because from South Side Jamaica, Queens, New York, and I'm
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: from the mecca of hip hop, and I grew up
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: with hip hop.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: We all me and Pop grew up grew up with
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: it all around it. Especially he was in Harlem.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: We were over it up in the Bronx together and
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: I was in Queen's you know, run DMC, what you know,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: l L and rock him. You know that that that
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: that's my error right there, you know, highly influenced me.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: So when I got out the army, got out with
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: a little paper, I put myself in the studio and
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: through that process, brother named Kenya Baker, his brother is
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: in Tony Tony Tony, but he was producing some some
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: some demo for me, and uh, they came and heard
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: my demo and then asked me, did I want to
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: be on a song? Raphels asked me, you know, asked
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Eric to ask me if did I want to be
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: on a song?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like yeah.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Then I heard it, I was like, oh, oh, this
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: maybe the magic that that that though those drums are infections,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: infectious on that song.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I love that song.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I want to hold up, I want to I want
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: to play I want to play second that I want
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to play little bars on that.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, you know, go and play classics. Want
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: to move the table backs so you could dance it. Yeah,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: that that was a blessing because that record when we connected,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: the record was recorded, but it wasn't out yet.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: So I got to, you know, tell give them the
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: good news. And everybody was happy for me. You know,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: is that for real?
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Because everybody knew Tony Tony Tony, Tony, Tony Tony.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Had already had Little Walter. Hey, little Walter. I don't
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: know remember that first album.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that was a hit. And then yeah, man,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: god it's good. It was a charm time in our lives. Yeah, songs,
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: songs were like four minutes, four or five minutes back then,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: so much I'm I'm near the end. But yeah, it
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: was a big deal.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Oh it's gonna come in. Hold up.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Boom boom.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Boo boo mo mellow, Quite a nice fellow, met three
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: t get around my capello. They had the real dom
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: and and I had the rhyme. So then I hear
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: it that boom more time. It worked out and then
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: they worked it in. Tony has done it. Man, the
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: classics baby can you read that, you go on, man,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: ridiculous And I love it because it's a feel good
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: song if the name of it just feels good and
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: it's a feel good song, and it doesn't have no no,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: a whole bunch of luggage attached. Yeah you know, I
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: mean I didn't. I wasn't properly. I haven't seated it.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: But it is a blessing all the same. Yeah, yeah,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: this is blessing all the same. You know, I still
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: love him, dudes. That's the piece Dwayne Wiggins who passed
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: away like last year ago. Yeah, but Raphael shout out
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: to Rafael. I think he was just nominated for an
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: oscar for uh senates for sinners. Yeah yeah, man, so
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: we have some talent. Talent, man, but you all.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: The funny part about that, and I didn't know this
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: is when they ask you to do it, it's like, yeah,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: we're kind of why don't you write something and we'll
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: see what it turns out to be. We're also talking
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: to mc hammer c do something.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you were you were kind of likeation prize.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Not a consolation prize, but it was kind of like listen.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: So I was like, man, I wonder I was like
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: This must have been a smart move because at the end,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you go, Tony Tony, Tony has done it again. I'm like, okay,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you must have named checked that. That's like you're gonna
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: pick me because'm gonna'm gonna i'mnna shout you all out
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: on it, you know.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wrote, dude, they were making commercials
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: off of my tagline Tony Tony, Tony has done it again.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yo, but yeah, man, they were going to
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: have mc hammer do it for real. But uh, mc
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: hammer was hot at the time. He was quite pricey,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: so it was more economical.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the fuck with this little New York dude. See
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: what he got?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: You know, the dude was in the town at that time,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I didn't know nobody, you know, but I
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: knew music. I knew I could do this, you know
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: what I mean. I just needed a shot.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's even before digital underground pocks
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: and you know, so you have the first hit.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, I am part of the story. I have part
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: of the story. And then when when, uh, but park
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: was inspired. Now that was my first record, first in
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: the family, but pac had already been been on this
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Pollow stage. I had already did raise it in the
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Sun after Pollow A thirteen, So we were honing our
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: entertainment chops, you know. And then when Pop got to Baltimore,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: they did. He went to school with the arts and
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: so he was ready.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: He was ready.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Shock was keen enough to recognize that because Shock recipe
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: shot g he was a trained musician.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: He went to school in Tampa music school. So he
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: got it.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Pop got we will all try to be serious artists,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: you know, and and and doing it in the Bay
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: shout out to the Bay Area was a blessing because
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: it was so creative. Groups, music musicians everywhere, you know,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: legendary managers, legendary artists, legendary you know what I mean.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Two show was out there Richie rich A young e
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: forty forty water, you know what I'm saying. And it
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: was just good, good energy, good, A lot of creative
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: juice is flowing.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, did you when you reconnect with Park was
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: he did you? Could you sense that he was coming
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: into his own that he was Yes, so.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Uh, Park knew what was going on with me and
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: that the logical organic thing was us to do some
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: music together. We got together and do something, you know,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: and we sat down. We sat down to write a song.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I still remember naming this song. It was called rolling
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: out of Forsyth County. Forsythe County. There was a klan
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: rally that year in forsythe County.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Seen it on the news.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: We should go out there, cadillacs, beanses and false on
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: them and can I curse?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I ain't.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: And so we sat down and started writing, started writing,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: trying to work out mothers like ship.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And then next thing, I know, all right, let's y
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: what you got?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: What are like? You finished already? Yup.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: Fob was a beast. His pen was wicked. He was
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: He's an excellent writer. And because he would write poetry too.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't write poetry. I just wrote rhyme songs.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: He would. He would write poetry, and I was like, whoa.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: That's when I knew, Oh he's really kids, really got it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: And then shot gave him a shot. The rest is history.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: And then you're with him for most of the ride.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Man like you guys are I mean you really saw
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the evolution of his of his career.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, helped him get there. And I mean.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Because I was at the beginning he was his eyes
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: inspired him, you know, no exaggeration, but when he learned
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: his big brother gonna be on the record with Tony
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Tony Tony, that meant something. That meant something to an
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: eighteen year old living in the Bay.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, and then you're both that Summer
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Jam at the same time, you with Tony Tony Tony
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: him was Shocked with digit on the ground with Shocking
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: them money Bee.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was eighty eight, eighty nine, eighty nine,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: ninety ninety one them three four years we were at
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: the Summer Jam. Every year somebody was out with a
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: record that meant they would be on the Summer Jam,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: either Shock or the Tony's or you know, always some
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: of our people, you know rich you know, there's always
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: a reason for us to be there.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: So I my mind tally.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: It helped me work out my memory because I was
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: remembering one Summer Jam was really the other Summer Jam.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: It was just like kind of a blur, but it
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: was such it was like a Costo dream.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Well it's crazy too that like pop gets the juice
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: roll before. It's really hard. I mean, even having I
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: lived it, just to look back on it, and knowing
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: it and knowing all the stuff as well as I
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: know it. But just it is hard to process that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: he got the Juice Rollo even had the record deal
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: outside of Digital Underground, you know what I mean, his
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: own solo record deal.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because Pac got into Digital. Digital's hot. Do what
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: you're like, Humpty dance huge. That's when Parc got with Digital.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: So because they were so hot that they had a
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: lot going on.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Because and you even.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Want to put that Dan Akroyd movie actually know that,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: think about it. Nothing but trouble, Nothing but trouble, Nothing
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: but trouble. Yeah, Park gets a little little quick cameo
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: in that. But when Rod came up for Juice, Shock
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: wanted money Be to do it first, and then Mon
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: was like, no, Park needed to do this.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: It was more of a POC type role. And they's like, yeah,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: you rock this.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: And because they knew he was also trained yeah in
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: acting as opposed to them guys.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: From Baltimore, emmorn both schools right.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, as first rap group was up in
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Marin h Ray Love DJ did Strictly Dope, always shoutout
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Strictly Dope. Park's first rap group and he blew away
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: to audition. He blew away the audition from what I heard,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: and then the rest was history. And then we had
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: to say, like, oh ship this nigga's a movie star.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: We ain't got no record deal, and so we dug
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: in trying to get that done.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: You know. It was a lot of work, you know,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: but we was trying to get all the money.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: What was it like with with Interscope? Did it? Did
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: it over the course of things? Like how how did
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: you ever? We ever around like Jimmy or.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Or I was around Tom Willy more than Jimmy. I
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: would have to deliver the music to in the scope,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: pocabing the studio, like run this to the label, you know,
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: and now play this and this for time, play this,
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: you know. I would have to play selects for Tom,
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: looking for the singles and and things like that.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: You know, had a lot of jobs. Man had a
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: lot of jobs. But we made it. We made it,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you know, Hooker crook.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: And and Park had a lot of energy and he
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: needed someone who could keep up and that he trusted
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: and he knew I was already and it by me
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: having feels good, it gave me I was comfortable I
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: was cool with that. I was cool with that. I
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: want my brother to be that hit now, yeah, you know,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: and that just kept going. Yeah, he kept hav you know. Yeah,
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: we had a good five six year run.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Even when it stops, even when he's gone, it's still
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: keep you know.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: It's just the greatest of all times when it's rap ship.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: You know what the greatest thing about his story is
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: and your story and all that is just when you're
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: reading through the book, so much of the narrative about
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: any rapper now is about it's about money.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And when you're reading this your book and you're really
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: thinking about Po's legacy and you're just kind of reliving it,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it's like he probably never got the money he should
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: have gotten. But regardless, it's an inspiring story. Man like
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: his life. You guys lived and inspired life around the arts,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: around uplifting blacks, uplifting people of all cultures, really through
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: your example, right, And it's just like it's a success
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: story that doesn't center around money. And that's fascinating to
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: me because that's all we talk about now.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Kind of what set said it set Park apart was
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: that he he wrote he often wrote about social issues
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: more than other artists. He wrote about social issues and
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: he was passionate, genuine and intense. So those songs about
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: those social issues resonated. Uh, Brendon's Got a Baby, Keep
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: your Head up, you know these you know, those songs
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: got through so.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Because they were coming from a real place, a genuine place.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: We come from community, family of community organizers, you know, healers.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: You know, my father was also an acupunctured doctor. You know,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: he did all that shit before thirty five. You know.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: But I think that's what makes Pok's music more than
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: any other rappers music, like just perennially relevant. As long
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: as he made those records, they're never out of style.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Park is relevant right now right now. Got money for
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: war but can't feed the poor. I see that everywhere
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: It's unfortunately it's still relevant.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, man, we were That's part of that
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: being aware of the world around us. You know, it's
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a big world out there, and we
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: ain't the only ones going through it.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, last break and we'll be back with Mopreme
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: chakor for you as his brother, Like, what is it like?
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like every year there's a new like someone's
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: there's always like something like interview where someone's got PC
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: figured out. Okay, oh he was an actor. Okay, he
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: was a thug. Okay, he was a he was just
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: a he was he was pretending, Okay he was What
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: was it like?
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: See?
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I mean every year, every year is a new story
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: about why Pak was the way Pac was and this
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: is this is really who he was.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: You know what Pap was. Pac was legend. Pac was legend.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: The moves he made, the impact, he had, the love
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: he got, passion he displayed. He was one of a kind.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: You know, he's one of a kind, and it still resonates.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Pac was the black James Dean. You know, he's he's
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: the Bob Marley, He's he's that guy.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Pac was that guy. You know I did.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know how else to explain it, but his
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: his chrisma, He had chrisma. Yeah, yeah, missed that dude.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Missed that dude. But he did it his way. He
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: did it his way.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like Inerscope knew what they had with.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Him, not until they got a hit record.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I mean they knew he was a movie star, right,
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: so he was worth investing in and it might have
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: paid off, and it did, right, it did. But he
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: was a movie star and he was plugged with one
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: of the hottest groups in the game, Digital right, so
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: there was a lot of farther for success. Yeah, you know,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: and we were hungry prior to us coming up. Park
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: was poor, you know, we they were broke.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Packer would try dabbling in dope, you know, selling drugs,
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: but all the drug did was like, man, you don't
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: need to be doing this, this is not for you. Yeah,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: you know, and only my only dudes who got love
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: for you would would you know, say that pull you
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: out and put you in a different direction. Shout out
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: to man Man Mike Cooley, you know, Patters from Richmond.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: They they helped get him in the studio in the
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: early days, you know, and then when he got with Shock,
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Shock would have signed different producers to work with Park,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Big D Ed Impossible who did changes. Shout out to
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: Big D Recipes, the Big D Chot Master j. You know,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: they did a lot of the early demos. And then
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Park had a lot of friends, so he would end
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: up working with everybody and we would end up kicking
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: it with everybody.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: He was that dude.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: Everybody wanted him at their party. Everybody wanted him on
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: their song. So we you know, and I just try
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: to support him. We just try to support them. Let's
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: get it, you know. You know, I was in the military,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: as you know. And they got a saying that we
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: all brothers in the foxhole. We all brothers in the foxhole.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: No matter who, what color you are, what gender you are,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: we in that foxhole together. We're down for the struggle together.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: We're riding together, you know what I mean. And that's
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: that's what it was, the Digital family, you know, like
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: we got pac you know what I mean, We got them.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: There's an incredible story about you guys coming back to
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area and going to a affair in Marin,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: the County Fair of Marin. Can you tell that story.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Park had was really being he was blowing up
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: his success. He had already done Juice. I think he
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: had Apocalypse now out. He has, you know, success with that.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: So he was doing good and he wanted to get
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: back to his community where he came from over there
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: in Marin. And we went back for the fair and
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: these dudes started a fight, and you know, we came
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: with our cousins, the l Saints outlawed Edie when he
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: was younger. You know, they were all young and some
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: other kids from the neighborhood in Richmond.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: We went to the fair. We had no ill or
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: mall intent, and dudes just walked up the.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Bout what you say about Marine City bow sock pock
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: up just hit him in the face and it was on.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: And then we knew we were out dumbled and tried
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: to get up out of there, and you know, we
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: got up out of there, thank god. But a child
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: was killed. You know, they were shooting. We was you know,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: it was going down. They were shooting, and it's unfortunate.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: The aftermath of that, like what what do you guys
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: even talk about it? What's the vibe after that?
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: It was, you know the worst day of our lives.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: You know, none of us wanted anything like that to happen, but.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: We realized out here in this world, in this game,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: with this much attention, these things could happen, and we
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: didn't have no security. Really, it was just us, you know,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: probably just starting now.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: We couldn't actually afford it, you know, and he really
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: needed extra and you know, that's kind of got to
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: look at the label and all that as far as
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: that goes. But he was a movie star as well
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: as a successful rapper. Now, so his popularity was high.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: And all we had was us, you know what I mean.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: And we was out there with.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Our cousins, with our kids, and.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Cash Show had a cast on his leg at the
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: time to his heap, you know, one of them long casts,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: and so you know, dudes are shooting at us.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: We're trying to run, and it was just bad. It
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: was a bad day.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: The cops even gotten boy, I mean, you got you
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: got a gun, yeah, pulled right to your head by
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: a cop.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: Sheriff put the yeah. Cheryff put a pistol to my head.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: And the crowd was attacking us, and it was me
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: and parking in front. We were trying to wait for
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: everybody to get in the truck so get out of there.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: And we were waiting at the same time. The sheriff
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: had a pistol to uh my head. But the crowd
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: is still coming. They're throwing rocks, they throw they mad,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: they're angry, you know what I mean, And you know,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: because they think popped this marine. They busted out the window,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: started busting all the windows. But then they started pulling
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: on the doors. It started pulling on the doors. It
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: was going to yank think it was easy on that said,
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: it was about the young come out and it was
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: going to.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Get even worse. So I evaded. I evaded.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: There was a lot going on, So I think that
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: the sheriff got distracted, popped it in reverse.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: It was I got us about it. It I got
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: us about it.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Also, as the older brother, I felt responsible for taking
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: care of everybody to a certain degree.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: And you really did play that older brother role, I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: mean until I mean, I didn't really know that story
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: that things got. I mean, I know things got kind
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: of weird at Death Throw, but that you got pushed
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: out seems that way.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we were at that time.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: Now that's years later, like five years later, but at
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: that time we were repping. We had been repping thug life,
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: which had its own power. Death Row had its own power.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: I thought when we combined forces, you know, we all
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: be allies riding together, rah, you know. But there was
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of gang shit going on. You know, this
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: is that Throws La. A lot of gang shit going on,
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: and you know, gang practices and how they get down.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't necessarily how we got down, and uh,
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: you know, shit didn't like me.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Who knew I ain't never had nothing.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Against the brother, So a lot of pressures started coming
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: down on me in different ways. So I decided to
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: gracefully bow out. My brother's grown. Now he went from
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: a young man to a man. He was growing. He
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: became from a young man to a man. Now he's
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: a grown man, and he was making his own decisions.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: And you know, we're big on freedom. Let them have
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: his freedom, you know. I I try as much as
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: possible to influence him and all the positive ways, you
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: know what I mean. And he took he he learned
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: a lot of lessons, he soaked up a lot of game,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: but he was still him.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: He was not not going to be him.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: About that time, though. He opens up an office out
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: of your ant's apartment, his dances apartment, and so you
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: would go through by there and Fame he would be there,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: and just different family be it was more of a
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: family thing.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: But not so much Fanny, but yes, mean, but she'd
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: at least.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Be his apartment and you go to his apartment sometimes,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: so there were you were around the family.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Whether yeah, yeah, I would go to the house. Once
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: I stepped away, I would go to the to his house.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: He would be at the he was in Calabasas, because
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I still loved him. He knew I still
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: loved him. I was mad at him, you know, with
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: the whole depth throw ship. I felt like he could
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: have made that go a different way, you know, But
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: I realized he was under pressure himself, so I didn't
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: want to make it no harder for him.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: But and was that the consensus with the with the
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: rest of the family too. It was just sort of like, hey,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: this isn't this isn't.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Well, everybody wasn't privy to the same information and experiences.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I was a front line soldier, so I was around
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: for the good and bad and uh, you know, and
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: in all the ways. And I guess my presence wasn't
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: desired or required.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Anymore, ain't. Okay? Okay, you know right, because we had
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: a positive.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: At first, we had a positive outlook with Death Throat
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: because Parker was always wanted to support black business, and
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: park had done good business with Sugar in the past.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: On the above the.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Rit movie on the soundtrack paid him stupid for it,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: so they had a good relationship.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: It's not you know, Sugar is who he is. But
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: they had a good relationship. Pac was you know, they
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: was trying to get that was trying to get parking
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: keep your head up days. And he asked again, he
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: asked me what I thought. I'm like, Yo, why you
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: want to be on somebody else's ship where they're the
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: captain here right now, you're the captain on your own ship, right,
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: you should do this, you know, until he couldn't do
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: it no more and he needed some help.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: And that's what that happened.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Well after poc pasted what was it was? And I
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: know after pock Past, Sugar kind of went through his
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: own He had his own thing going on. You know,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: he had a bunch of legal issues right after that happened.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Was there communication between the family and Sugar and the
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: way you might imagine that people might have imagined there
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: being I.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: Mean, you know, my sister asked him directly, and he
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: said he didn't have nothing to do with what happened
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: to Pop And and.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Believe it or not, I believe it.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Because my brother gave him power his relationship, my brother,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: my brother gave him power. So I don't see why
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: he would destroy power source. That's why investigations going on.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: We gonna see whoever the fuck it was part of
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: my French you know. But yeah, that's that's about as
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: much as it went though, because he was dealing with
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: his own ship as well.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Did the family have a bad feeling towards Sugar that
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: at that point or was it? Like I guess I'm
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: just trying tounderstand like.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: What I mean, we were all confused.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that throw was a top dog and they were strong,
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: and they had a big security company securing them, and
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: they had gang bangers on the label, and you know,
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: they should have been safe. Yeah, but you know, things
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: started happening to where, uh, you know, these these random
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: things would happen, these random fights would happen where which
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: causing be attacked, you know. But you know, I feel
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: it was orchestrated. I feel it was orchestrated. I may
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: be wrong, but we gonna see.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel confident will get some answers.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: We're gonna get more than we got now, mm hmm.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: We're gonna get more than we got now.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: But what pisces me off is that you know, shit
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: is blatant. They right, but yeah, I kill him. Yeah, yeah,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: gave me the good Okay. Okay, okay, okay, all y'all
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: tough guys, Okay, we go see. You know, I mean
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: it's really you know, I mean, uh, how does hold
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: some responsibility.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: For the the way he went about it? But you
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: know he went wrong.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: It was just it was just a perfect It was
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: a perfect storm. It was a perfect storm. The stuff
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: that was going on on the East Coast with Biggie
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: and Puffy and Sugar had his own issues with dude.
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: It was just you know, you know, uh, enemy of
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: my enemy is my friend, you know what I mean
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: that that that's kind of what was happening. And it was.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: The storm was so perfect it was hard to not
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: to for it not to take off like that.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fog a war situation in hindsight might be clear,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: what you know. But right, and a lot of the
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: guys that were like Parc was like Stretch and you know,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: like you knew you knew those guys.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew Biggie Stretch.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Going back now to the Quad shooting, you knew like
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: you knew, Like so when Pack was adamant that those
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: guys were involved, Haitian, Jack Stretch, Big Puff, Like, were
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: you kind of like taking aback by that seeing as
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: you knew those people.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I just didn't know to what degree the
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: relationships had deteriorated. Yeah, because as of that day, Park
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: was cool with all them. Pack was cool until that day.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: Pack was cool with all of them.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Pack was thinking about possibly signing seeing these are the
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: things that people don't know.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Pak was thinking about possibly signing Big too.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Out the Gutter.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: People forget that Poc had a label deal. He was
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: finally in a position where he could sign artists. He
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: was putting us to our first Thug.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Life volume one is on Out the Gutter right, correct, correct.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: So he was in a position and we did songs
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: together Pocket Pocket Outlaws. This song were big, and you know,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: it was a real relationship there. You even said running
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: was supposed to be running from the police that comes
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: out of the thug Life concept.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, it was all about thug life
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: at that time.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the projects that Park worked on
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: the longest, was the Thug Life project.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: About two and a half years.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: We worked on that straight out of Actually, while we
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: were still working on strictly for my niggas kind of.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: That's when the thug life materials started being created. Hell
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: of an hell of a ride, man, it's been an
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: hell of a ride. But yeah, so you know, when
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: things turn from sugar to shit, it's usually a reason,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: you know. And with our success, with the music success,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: and Pac was having film success, that movie star shit
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: just kept getting bigger. You know, comes a lot of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: jealousy and envy, and that's a another thing you gotta
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: deal with that. It's hard to explain, you know, why
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: you got beef with that nigga. I don't know why
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: I got beef with that nigga. He just don't like me,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, So tell you and then
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: that turns into something, you know.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: So you were seeing that around, like people around being.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Pac was, you know, he was unapologetic. He said, yeah, nigga,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: I'm the best. I'm the best, and y'all should support
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: me because I'm a ride for y'all. I'm a ride
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: for the people. And he's like, y'all should know me
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: by now, y'all should know me by now. I'm a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: ride for the people. And that resonated. People felt that, Yeah,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: mm hmm.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: And it's amazing too, how you guys stayed in touch
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: with with Matulu the whole way, the whole time. I mean,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: there's one of the funniest Trying to end on a
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: lighter note, man, one of the funniest anecdotes in the book.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: It's where it comes from your dad. When when uh
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: you and Parker on the phone with Metulu and you're
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: telling them about how Park's kind of hanging out with
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: my daughter.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, now, my pops has his reputations with
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: his uh ladies of of all types. So you know,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: he you know, he was trying to drop the game
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: on us, you know, you know, because he he still
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: want to be considered a player. I look a here,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: and I look a here, y'all, don't don't have sex
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: with her sex of mind, sex and mind get into
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: a mind find I wish you're coming from it. Me
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: and Pa was like, yo, we started a buzz out
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: of it. I'm like, dude, all right, I'm too little, okay, sure, sure,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: they too late, And man on, it's Madonna. The money
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: actually hinds up and some might have been some game
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: in that throw and hindsight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: it was too late. It's actually too late sex from
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: mine first. Yeah, and I mean we talked all the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: time because it was like that's the closest the family
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: could be to reuniting. Yeah, you know, you know we
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: could finally talk. I mean it was through the prison
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: phone and all the face listening, but at least we
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: can hear his voice, share a laugh, soak up a
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: little game and if you had a chance to go visit. Yeah,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: that's why we really he Matulu wanted to see us
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: and we wanted to see him. So he made sure
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: when he started doing the events in prison for the prisoners,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: he made sure that we were included. We had become
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: big enough now where you know, it was actually a
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: nice you know, an event to have Pac come and perform,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: you know, And this was he wanted. Park wanted it
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: to be specifically Thug Life. They come perform, and we
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: performed them Park Prison, Doug Life Crew, y m V,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: Big Side, Big Surge. That was like the last time me,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: Park my father were together was in that prison.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Wow. And yeah yeah, and we took a bunch of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: pictures with all the crews. I mean, there was.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: It was almost didn't go down because it was almost
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: a riot, so Matulu able to piece it out. We
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: had to take pictures with all the crews, DC crew DC, Mob,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: Island Boys, uh Vy Boys, the Bloods, cribs, you know,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: all the black gangs, BGF. You know, we took like
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: so many pictures that day. I don't wonder anybody got any,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: but yeah, we were able to find a few from
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: the Lompop performances in the book, and people, please buy
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: the book, This Doug's Life. We got twenty four photos
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: in there, so never before seen photos. Big Matula up
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: in there, you know, Fanny, you know I tried. We
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: tried very hard to get the pictures right. I think
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: I messed up my mama's picture with my grandmothera picture,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: but I don't know how that happened, but I hope
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: she's still on me.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Next edition. Figure you can correct that and I'll get
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: faced next time. Have you had a chance, like to,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: like have set read the book or anything like that
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: and talk to family any want upset ever people happy people.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: It's so much anxiety with that ship, especially this type
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: of book. It's a memoir. I bet, yeah, So first
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: I had to you know, we're from the keep a
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: real generation.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: I had to keep it real as possible, and I
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: try to be as genuine as possible. But you know,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: you know, colhard truth sometimes comes over cold, you know,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: but they know I ain't lying.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: You know, there ain't no lives in there.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful testament to your family. Man. There's a
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: lot of thank you.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Really try, we try hard.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: It's a great read. You know, unlike a lot of people,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: you haven't spent the last thirty years running around telling
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: telling every story under the sun, you know, And so
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: it's it's great to finally be able to get this
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: story from your vantage point, you know what I mean,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: someone that's close to Muss, his brother, and.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: I feel it's too it's too important not to make
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: sure that it's you know, down for the record.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it follows my father, involves my family, you
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: know what I mean.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: It's all through the lens of the politics y'all grew
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: up with, you know what I mean, And it's all
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: through the lens of of of of a love of blackness.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: You know. That's why I love it's unapologetically black stories. Yes,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: the subtitle of the book, it really is. It is,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: and it's through the lens, and you even talk about
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: the music through that lens, and that's that's an important
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: part that a lot of people miss, I think when
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: discussing even pox music or your music or you know,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Doug life and any of it.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait to do a series of show
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: because we also touched music. Yeah.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: Now, my bah Blah Blau, my uncle Blau played with
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: Gill Scott Herring's Wow the midnight band The Revolution will
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: not be televised. Was he was rocking with real revolutionaries,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And then my father would
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: promote shows to raise money for the movement, for the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: movement in other countries see raised money for it to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: buy ambulances in Africa, ROBERTA Flag, Eddie, Paul Mary, I mean,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: major acts of the day he would promote. So that's
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: why I can't wait to do a series. We could
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: have the musical element, we could have all that in there.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: But yeah, Blah Blah Blah play the flute and so
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: you know, we were tapped into music, you know, but
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: then it became our era, the hip hop era took over,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: and you know we were doing our thing now.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: Well and you guys left your mark man you guys
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: left your mark.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Man, God is good.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: I'm thankful, grateful for you know, the successes we've had.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: It ain't been easy, but I just I'm thankful that
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: their struggles wasn't for nothing. They got to see something
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: good come out besides all the brothers getting locked up,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: getting killed. You know, they got to see, you know,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: outside have a little success. Yeah, you know we will.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: We take the family to general market.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Mo prem Man, thank you for writing the
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: book and thanks for taking the time to talk to
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: me about it.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Man, Thank you, Thank you, my brother. I appreciate you.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Come on. In the episode description, you'll find a link
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: to a playlist of our favorite songs from Moe Prematucre
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: and of TUPAC. Be sure to check out YouTube dot
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: com slash Broker Record podcast to see for our video interviews,
• 1:09:39
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• 1:09:41
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• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: with marketing and help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.
• 1:09:50
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• 1:10:09
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• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: podcast app. Are theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.