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Mastering the Job Search and Interviewing Process with Founder Nicki Perchik · Building the Best You

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Building the Best You, a destination for you to reimagine what is possible in your life and then create it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, everybody.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Gene Collins, and today we're gonna talk about something a little bit different.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna talk about executive search, the job market.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We are recording this near the end of September.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna release this early.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna put it out in October because you know what?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Q4 is coming, and there's a lot of fear in the industry.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's fear in the marketplace, there's fear in the economy.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have asked Nikki Perchick to come on the show.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I have known Nikki, she reminded me for 17 years.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know her from way back in my corporate days.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I've asked her to come on the show because she is the founder and CEO of an executive search firm.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the NLP group.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And she also is a coach.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: She helps people find jobs.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's gonna talk to us everything about the truths of how one goes about putting yourself out into the marketplace and getting a job.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, Nikki, thank you for joining us.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks for having me.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fun to be here.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we have known each other for far too long.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Far too long.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, before I forget, I want to read the subject of your book because I was like, I have to get this book and I'm I'm gonna read it because I don't want to miss a single word of the subject of your book, but this made me laugh so much.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: A recruiter's truly simple guide to stop fucking up when job searching and interviewing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, everybody.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Did you hear that?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's gonna help you do it right.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you have this incredible series on LinkedIn, which has made me laugh so incredibly hard.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say this correctly too.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: The tough truce.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was almost going to say it's something falsehood, but it's the tough truth about the marketplace.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: And not only are you just a wealth of information for helping people on LinkedIn, you're funny, girl.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are funny.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have to laugh, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Life is hard.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: We have to make things funny.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a serious topic that is so heavy sometimes.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We got to lighten it a little bit to help the information resonate and stick.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, your series on LinkedIn is incredible.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has to go and follow you to watch.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: All right, before we get into the details, though, I'd love to shed a little bit of light about you and your personal background, your professional background.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: How'd you get to become an entrepreneur?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: You work with your husband.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: At least I think you still work with your husband.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: You do, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have not fired him yet.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Most people cannot say they can do that with their spouse.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to know the backstory.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I will make this brief.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I started my career at ADP.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I sold payroll HR benefits administration for 10 years, largely to Fortune, 5,000 size companies.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Loved it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I truly credit that job for giving me all of the fundamentals that I needed to start my business almost 20 years ago.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I left ADP, did the stay-at-home mom thing for a little bit, realized I am not a stay-at-home mom, hardest job ever.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I really missed being in corporate America.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I always thought about recruiting because it was something that, you know, when you are meeting with companies and you did this back in your coupons quotient days, you know, frequently executives would pull me aside and say, Hey, do you know an IT person who can implement this multi-million dollar product you're selling me?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would make those connections, right?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there was something so rewarding and fulfilling about having companies and top talent meet and having it work out.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, gosh, I've got this wealth of context connections, largely in the HR space, which at the time, 20 years ago, CHROs were really making the decisions about what search firms would come in.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, why don't I just try this and see if I can build a company, make this a career?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I kind of think I had like mommy brain because my youngest was six months old.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I just didn't overthink it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, if this doesn't work, I'll go back to corporate America, I'll get a sales job, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just started reaching out to everyone I knew and saying, hey, I am starting an executive search firm.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you need help hiring talent, you know I know talent, you know I understand businesses, give me a shot.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing led to the next.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And quickly the NLP group became a group.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what was so funny was my husband, who you know, at the time when I was naming my company, he's like, uh, it's not a group, Nikki.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's you.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, just wait, it'll be a group.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then quickly it became a group.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I had more work than I could handle right out of the gate and um quickly started growing and added some people.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ronnie at the time, my husband at the time, had started his own company in the marketing services world.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And about 10 years later, he was at a point where he needed to do another round of fundraising, didn't really have the stomach to do that, and decided to join me.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like you said, we've been working for 10 years.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, or working together for 10 years.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, what we do is we help companies hire top talent across pretty much every industry, every functional area.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in that time, we've also really become career counselors and coaches, helping professionals of every level with job searching, interviewing, um, career pathing.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we do it because we love it.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: What an exciting thing it is to really, and it might sound cheesy, but I get to help people with one of the most important life decisions and one of the biggest stressors, right?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Their careers.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: What a privilege.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get to help companies find the right talent that helps them meet and exceed their goals.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I get to decide who I work with too, which is a gift.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, when we are working for someone else, we can't always make those decisions.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But truly it's it's such an honor and privilege, and that's what we do.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which I love that.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys go?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is just a totally random question, but do you go to an office together or do you stay at home together?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does that work?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's just a lot of time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you have kids too.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like there's a lot of togetherness in this world with you two.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I have always worked from home, and that was one of the reasons why I decided to do this because when the boys were really little, when they were babies, I wanted to be around, um, even though we had help.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I have an office upstairs.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: When Ronnie joined me, he's a go-to-office guy, and that is perfect.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So he still goes to an office.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: My kids now, 20 years later, aren't babies, they're off to college.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we work in separate spaces, we work on separate accounts, but we definitely help each other.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: We have um colleagues that we work with too, but that separation of accounts is also helpful because you're right, it's hard to work with your spouse.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: We love it, but it's definitely not something everyone can do.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, definitely not.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-uh.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I would love before we even get into the logistics of finding a job, I have a really important question because this is all over the news right now.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to make sure we get to it right in the very beginning.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: AI.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: How is AI either helping or hurting you in terms of you doing your job from a search perspective and then also you doing your job from a coaching perspective?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: AI is amazing.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that that's your answer.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know that lots of people like to talk doom and gloom right now.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: AI is all the conversation everywhere.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: We were hearing AI is going to replace every job.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: We were hearing this was going to be or is going to be the end of everything.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Look, at the end of the day, people still need to be involved.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: AI helps make certain tasks easier, faster, more productive, more efficient.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So learning how to use AI is a must.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, AI can't read a person.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: It can't see body language.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: It can't understand a company's culture and the dynamics inside an organization.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: It can't evaluate EQ.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I've talked about in my Tough Truths series that you referenced is, you know, AI fills the IQ gap that we've seen, which is really cool because there's a lot of professionals that for a long time that was a big differentiator.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And in today's world, if you know how to use AI, you can start to fill that gap.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's more important today is the EQ.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So right now in the world of executive search, it's helpful.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say any company that is solely relying on AI is making a big mistake.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I've told companies that because AI cannot, it's like dating.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go with this.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: There have been online dating tools forever.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: How often is it right?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: How many people go on a million dates and are like, oh my God, this is not if this is who I meant to write.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is who I'm meant to end up with.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: What what is it?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: What does it think of me?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: This algorithm.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it can help you meet the right person, but it's not the end all be all, and it's not the only thing.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Does that help?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, it definitely does, because I think I'm glad you said that AI is helpful and that we need to embrace it because I personally agree with that statement.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I also really agree that nothing can replace human beings, especially on the side of your business that's coaching people on how to be human.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because we buy from humans, we hire humans.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so understanding how to present yourself as a human is even more important than ever because AI might be the first or second level filter that's going to even get you to even be able to be a human in front of someone.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to understand how to use it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's there.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to know, I'm sure in your world, you have to know what it's going to search for.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: You have to know, you know, how to make your resume not look like it's written by AI and how to make your cover letter look like it's not too written by AI.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have a friend who applied for a job just recently.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: She's out in California and she applied for a job that she is like perfect for.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's absolutely perfect for.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the response that she got back, plus a bunch of other people, was that AI, because of how she wrote her response to the questionnaire, AI, they decided it was AI written.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she sent a note to the woman and said, This is how I've been trained in acting school to answer the question, which is to repeat the question when you're answering the question.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, This is how I've been trained to write so that my answer has context that it goes with the question.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I wrote it all myself.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it just brought up this whole dialogue of, you know, she gets kicked out even though she's a great candidate.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then she's like, well, but do I even want to be with a company?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's like, you know, there are flaws, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there are definitely flaws.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is why we coach the companies on look, AI is helpful, but you're not, you're really missing out if you're not looking at talent holistically and you're allowing that to be like the screener.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's part of the reason why they should work with a search firm like mine, so that we can get through the thousands of resumes.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have to.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: We know how to not assume AI wrote something and see like the human side, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is really important.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's your take on people applying for jobs that they don't necessarily have direct experience in, but yet you can see how their skills transfer.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where does that play right now in the job market that feels to me like it's a little bit tighter?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are more candidates than there are jobs.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the good news is there are lots of jobs.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: The good news is there's a lot of ways to improve job searches that candidates don't realize.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the reasons I wrote the book.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people think that just applying is like through a website, through a career portal is all you need to do, or it's the only thing you can do to get a job.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I always tell people you kind of have to go around the system.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I am like such a rule follower in life, don't follow the rules.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Go around.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've got to find people inside a company who can help you tell your story.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this is such a great question because a lot of people do have experience that is sort of tangential, but not exact.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so the more you can figure out where are those synergistic aspects of my past or current situation that tie to it, and how do I frame this as a story?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is where I would use AI to just give me three ways you would recommend I can align my experience to this job requirement or these job requirements.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, again, you can't use AI's words verbatim, but they can help you start to see the parallels and how to connect those dots.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, Gene, you don't align.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So either you don't pursue it, or if you can articulate, hey, I don't align perfectly, but here's why you need to think about me.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about you and I grew up in sales and we always had to overcome objections.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes there was a lot missing, and it just didn't make sense to pursue the sale.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there was some stuff missing, but so many of the must-haves, you could find a way to say, we can get there, or in a job search, I can get there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where we talk about your network is everything.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Having people who can make the introduction for you, vouch for you, and explain why you yes, you're missing some things, but you could be a fit.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Referrals matter so much more than like blind applications.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it really, it really does.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think everything I've heard about the job market, it's like you can't just go apply on a message board and think you're ever going to hear from someone.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like the odds of you hearing are almost zero.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, I've heard people talk about creative ways of, you know, going to LinkedIn and finding other people who work there or stalking people.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: It might sound stalish, stalk people on Facebook, see who's friends of friends of friends who can maybe introduce you, even just have a coffee with that person to find out what the culture's like, to then maybe meet someone else in that business in that organization.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like it's a lot of intentional legwork.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that maybe wasn't part of the past way of finding a job.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and here are some mistakes people make, some things people need to think about.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, when a job's posted, it's not always actually real.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: What do I mean by that?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of jobs are posted in places that will refresh every 30 days and charge the company or the search firm a renewal fee in an evergreen format.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I may forget to take down a post.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I fill the job.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm good to go.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know Joe is gonna start October 15th.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna just leave it there just in case anything goes sideways with Joe.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna take down the post.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: October 15th comes and goes.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Joe is happily employed.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's onboarding.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I forget.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many other things I'm working on.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: The job refreshes.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: The candidate world thinks, oh, there's a new job.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not new.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's been filled.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is a lot of companies on their career portals just forget to take things down.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or sadly, some companies want to get a bench, start to build a bench of candidates for if and when that job becomes available, it's not actually and legally, you know, is that the right thing to do?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not nice, but they can do it.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: So as a professional, just thinking let's apply to jobs that are posted is a big mistake.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Number one.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what does this mean?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: This means as a candidate, if there are jobs you are interested in pursuing, but you don't see ABC Company has that job, but you like ABC Company, this is where you start reaching out to people in, let's say you want to be a director of marketing at ABC Company.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Start reaching out to the CMO, the VP of marketing, the executive director.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And in the book I wrote, there's tips and tricks of how do I reach out to that person and say something that gets their attention, gets them to be willing to talk to me because no one has time, right?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't ask for 30 minutes, don't ask for a lunch, don't ask for coffee.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what you say.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It always has to be about what you bring to them because no one cares about the fact that you like ABC Company and you want to work for ABC Company, right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, get in line.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's what do you do for them?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's things that we can do aside from job boards, leveraging networks, leveraging tools like a LinkedIn to find the right people and try and like create opportunities where maybe you didn't think there was one.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: How much time do you spend on LinkedIn in your profession?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And how much time do you tell the people you are coaching to spend on LinkedIn if they are in the job search?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: So recruiters like me, there's typically one or two sides to our business.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Most of us are hired by companies to work on specific roles that we're paid by companies.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, go find me that VP of marketing for ABC Company.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: We spend a ton of time on LinkedIn.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that being said, our network is really the first place we go.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who do we know who either A fits that profile or B knows people who could fit that profile?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Spending time on LinkedIn, sourcing talent, definitely a big part of our day.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: It depends how many searches we're working on at any given time.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: We tend to only work on a handful each one of us because they're pretty big rules.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, it can vary.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: As a candidate, though, what I always encourage people to think about is their job search is like a pie, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And each slice of the pie is where they spend part of their day.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so LinkedIn, absolutely a huge part of that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have a great LinkedIn profile.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: You need to not be on the basic LinkedIn because you need to be able to leverage LinkedIn tools that you only get access to if you pay for upgraded versions.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a business expense, everyone.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell your accountant.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we want to make sure that we're leveraging different tools.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn helps you with research, it helps you uncover what's going on.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so many other things that you can be doing.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: But as a professional, always building your network, always leveraging your network.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing, Gene, that so many people forget to do is they reach out to everybody else asking for help, but they never offer help in return.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a big miss.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that really makes professionals stand out.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: If someone reaches out to me and asks me for 15 minutes of my time, if they at the end offer in return, hey, what can I do to help you, Nikki?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any searches you're working on?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything I can do to help open a door at the company I'm working at or whatever it might be?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So those are things that are important.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But again, going back to your question, LinkedIn, invaluable tool, something you absolutely need to uh have full control over, making sure your profile is built out, making sure you have a professional picture.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: What used to 20 years ago when you and I met, or 17 years ago?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people could have really casual pictures on LinkedIn.
• 22:46
  unknown: I like
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and what am I talking about?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I saw a guy with a dead deer draped over his shoulders that he had gone hunting.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, come on.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Pictures of you with your kids.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love that people have kids, and that's great, but this isn't like Facebook or Instagram.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is you you don't have to spend a fortune to get a professional picture, but you can get a pretty nice picture.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And just your spouse or a friend takes a headshot of you, a couple of them.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Use one.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Be just nice, right?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Look good.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not hard.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:22
  unknown: No.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you need like to see your face.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I've had I've been on so many events and you know, masterminds and stuff, and people show examples where like you can't even see the person's face or it's not even their face.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I hate to say this, but we you need to bring the humanness.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: We need to know what you look like.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: You just need to know what you look like.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it needs to be if you get on a Zoom for an interview that you look like what you looked like.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like dating.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: You need to look like what you looked like.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't give me a picture from 20 years ago.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'd love to still use that picture.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Try to me.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: But not me.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have the glasses.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was a little different.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Be current.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Look like you're current.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing too is like look positive.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many pictures.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always laugh.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: My boys are athletes and like they take their team pictures and their individual pictures with like these gruff, tough looking faces.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's great in sports, but come on.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Who wants to hire someone who looks like angry or they're ready to go, you know, uh take everything on?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just no, know the platform and know what your goal is and and live that look it.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So are there other platforms that people should be spending time on?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it depends what level you are.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I we do a lot with younger entry-level professionals now, because of the fact that my boys are that age.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Normally, like the roles we're hired by companies to fill are more senior.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But from a coaching perspective, we do a lot with younger people now.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what I will tell you is a lot of their roles, they will find information about companies on TikTok, on Instagram, on different social media channels.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn is always the best.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I there's sites like a built-in Chicago.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Living in Chicago built-in is a great place to go find opportunities.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are clubs that you can join that are virtual for marketing, for sales.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like these are all things you can be looking for.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that, from a social media perspective, is a lot of companies or schools have relationships in career portals, in career centers.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so trying to leverage those is always helpful in looking for jobs.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the big thing to remember is looking for a job is a full-time job.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have to have realistic expectations.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Looking for a job is a full-time job.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have a ton of rejection.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and really, this is why I wrote the Tough Truth series.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was raised in a family that was like, suck it up.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: The world isn't fair, life isn't fair, hard work is what gets you somewhere, no one owes you anything.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're sad, be sad for 10 minutes.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: My mom would always say you can sulk for a minute and then suck it up.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and so I think the thing that a lot of professionals don't realize is that this is hard.
• 27:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot of work.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of rejection, but that's okay.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because every rejection, I always tell people, visualize like stone walkway to a front door.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You park the car, you get out of the car, you walk the steps to the front door.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Each no is one of those steps, getting you closer to the door.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have you have to like one of my boys was a baseball player, you have to swing a bunch of times to miss to then get the hit.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's totally part of it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a full-time job.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of places you can look, but you need to educate yourself on where to look, how to look, and you need help.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's why I wrote the book.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't something we're all born knowing how to do.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, a lot of people don't have to look very often.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they forget some of the basics.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and especially I think like I think of my career, I work for two companies in 22 years.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, now my idea of looking for work for me is is different, but it's still that same level.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Me looking for speaking opportunities, me looking for people to coach, me looking to build a personal brand.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is all a tremendous amount of work.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't just put the sign up and be like, hi, here I am.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I do.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: If people just come to you magically because a Google search makes you pop up number one.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work that way.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you really have to join the networking groups and reach out to people and build connections.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me personally, what I found at my age doing this is you have to go into every interaction expecting nothing in return.
• 28:58
  unknown: Absolutely.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And don't reach out to people because you want something from them.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Reach out to them because you think they're interested.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not because they necessarily are the ones with the job, but they might be interesting.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a friend three friends over who might help you.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just don't, you have no idea where the path is.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like everything in life is so not linear anymore, including job search.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's very not linear.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone serves a role in that path, but to think you're going to talk to this person who's going to give you to this person, to this person, to this person, that's I'm going to get you the job, it just feels like that's not realistic anymore in anything.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that is so priceless.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that is like nuggets of gold right there.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: That is what so many people fail to realize.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the expectations and the not getting what you think you want right away leads a lot of people, unfortunately, to shut down and to stop.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and being vulnerable is hard.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: You and I were raised in sales where we heard no a million times in between the yeses.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the yeses, we like we knew they would come, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and in in this world, you're right.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you're meeting with people, when you're talking to people, you can't always expect something immediately.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and really it's better to not expect anything at all.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: But to the expectation is I'm gonna learn something from you.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's gonna better me.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So selfishly, like that's it, right?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it we have created a generation where, and and you know, I'm a parent, so I'm part of this.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is this trophies for everyone, and you can get DoorDash, and yes, you can get, you know, immediate likes and gratification, and there's extra time on things.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not reality.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is again why I wrote The Tough Truths.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a hard reality that the real world, the professional world, isn't always as comfortable.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we gotta learn grit, we gotta learn resilience, and and we gotta hear uncomfortable truths so that we can be better for it, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that you started off this whole recording by saying there are jobs.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there are tons.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: There there are jobs, there are opportunities.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are, but everybody wants the perfect job.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they want it tomorrow.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: They want it tomorrow.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if I could tell you how many things I did before I got my ADP job, which I did not think was perfect, I literally took that job because I had had 50 companies tell me no, and I needed a job, and they gave me one.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I thought selling payroll sounded so weird.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not very sexy.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not very glad.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: You were in the coupon world.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who's it was terrible?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you kidding me?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: But like that was an amazing job, right?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was and so I always tell people like, if your first house is your dream house, what a bummer.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Your first car is your dream car, like that stinks.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: What do you have to look forward to?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your first job is to help you get your next job.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, don't walk into the interview and say that.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you are looking to build your level of knowledge, expertise, your network, your skill set, and then you move forward, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like first grade comes before second grade.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, these are building blocks and expecting that perfect job for your first job, you're really missing out on some amazing opportunities.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean we totally settle, but it also means have realistic expectations.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what you can learn from a job is could be, you know, far outweigh some of the other things.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be taken into consideration.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I am so curious about this.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm wondering what the trend is.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was in corporate, I always used to think that the younger people that I hired, I was like, what is wrong with this younger generation?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: These people, five o'clock, they're out the door, the weekends, they don't respond to emails, they don't respond to texts, they say no.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: They actually like don't do stuff if you're asking them to do stuff after hours.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what is wrong with these people?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: They are not committed, they job hop every two years.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: How dare they?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was raised in the culture of like, you get a job, you're there for at least 10 years, this is what you do, suck it up, stay.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to make fun of that generation.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I post about this on LinkedIn recently, that I was like, oh my goodness, I was so wrong.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, these people have it figured out because the reasons why they put up those boundaries is because they understood that one needs to have a life and they didn't define themselves by that job and that job title because they weren't any more committed to that organization than the organization, quite honestly, is committed to them.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I am really curious from your perspective, especially because you deal with a lot of executive hires and even an executive level, there's a lot of rotating around, let's be honest.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you seeing corporations?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the corporate thing you're seeing most commonly when it comes to culture?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is it still you all we own you, work until you're dead, we're your responsibility and we have no boundaries?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it swaying a little bit more towards you're allowed to have a life and be a human first?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a blend.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're a small firm, so we don't work with every company in the world, but we're happy to work with more.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Feel free to reach out.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um we have seen a shift over the last 10 years, especially COVID, I think really helped companies understand the importance of being flexible and proved that flexibility still works as a business model.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: There is definitely a shift back, for example, to like, hey, we need you to kind of come into the office a little more than you were before.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so professionals need to shift a little bit there too.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a wellness and corporate culture balance that has shifted, which is great.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is every company perfect?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I do think that sometimes people expect a little bit more than a company is willing to give, and they need to be flexible in return because this is work.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And really ultimately, results are what matter.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So as an employee, I tell everyone if you build a reputation for delivering results, you will earn fun.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you over-deliver, you will have more latitude.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So set your mind on over-delivering, and then there will be a lot looser boundaries around you.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Typically.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't find that, you can switch companies.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: There are jobs.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: But many companies have embraced the importance of providing some of those things.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, a lot of companies used to think it was all just money.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Frequently, it's those perks, those attitudes that matter a lot more than the money.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And companies have caught on to that.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, totally.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: My most common post that gets me the greatest amount of impressions, the greatest number of followers, the greatest number of comments every single time I post it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same story.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep posting it again and again and again.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the story is about when my daughter was seven and I was asked to travel on her birthday as a single mom.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a test.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was a test.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a test to see if I would choose the company over my daughter.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was asked to travel to California and I was asked to speak.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it was made very clear that it was a test to see if I would choose the company.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that if I did choose the company, that my career would probably take off.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I chose the company, and my career did take off.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm forever grateful for that career that I built.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: However, the fact that I had to make that choice, and I can't even tell you the stories that people have DM'd me, it's been heartbreaking what people have had to miss, deaths.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a woman who left overnight and her daughter is in the hospital and then never woke up again.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I like this, it gives me chills every time I read these stories about like, you know, what is a company thinking?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your daughter's in the hospital.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: What do they need you overnight for one meeting for?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: She leaves for that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, she thought like everyone else, it's one night.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: What's going to happen in one night?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Her daughter never woke up again.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like you hear these stories, but I just I find it so interesting.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I wanted to ask the question, because I do find that that subject of the choice, and and my stance on that is that companies should make a child's birthday a non-negotiable day off.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: It should never be asked.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just one thing.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's such a simple thing to give someone and give them the choice.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I know it's impossible to build a whole company plan around people when they're gonna be out on birthdays.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: But if you just have a company culture that just says, you know what, if you need to miss that day of that sales meeting because it's your kid's birthday, you go ahead and we're not gonna judge you, and your career trajectory is not gonna and I'm like, what ends up probably happening is the person probably actually chooses to be at the meeting, to be quite honest.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like most people, we care about our jobs.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: But giving them the choice.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I have found it so interesting since coming back to LinkedIn, which I've only been posting on LinkedIn consistently since May.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Always.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: That is the most engaged topic, is something super personal to people.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just it's so it's so easy to do little things.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe a company thinks that isn't little.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's why maybe there's factors that I'm not thinking about right in this moment, but the gesture, like you said, most people will probably still work.
• 39:32
  unknown: Right.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Especially because depending on who what age your kid is, where they are.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my boys really, there's no like hanging with mom on their birthday, right?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're like thanks, you're awesome.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: But unless it involves you cooking a really big meal, I'm out.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there are a lot of companies, and it it it certainly shifts as the market becomes more of an employee-centered, like where they own the market, there's not enough people for their jobs, like all of that, it does shift.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: But that is something that is so important.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I can see how that made a huge impact on you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And now, of course, I'm wondering who did that to, because I know a lot of the same people.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So oh, you wouldn't have to think hard on that one.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have ideas.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't have to think that hard on that one.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I have some thoughts.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, exactly.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have another question.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I spend a lot of time on social media, and storytelling is an art form which is really important for us as entrepreneurs and people who are in the social media space trying to build brands.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Storytelling is kind of everything.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering how you help coach people on the art of storytelling as part of them representing themselves to a business.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like what role is storytelling playing in the job searching market?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know what it plays in the on building a personal brand market.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: So storytelling is so important.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I learned this in sales.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Telling a story helps every deal move forward and close.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And in the professional world, it's interesting.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: In today's world, our younger people, especially, their writing skills are often not as sharp.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sorry to say that to the younger people, but they don't write the way we were taught to write.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is shorthand, everything is abbreviated, no full sentences, lots of run-on sentences, incomplete ideas, and so and grammar punctuation, spelling, like all of it.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: So going back to AI, our friends.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter's 20.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I totally get this 100%.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and listen, I am not always the shortest storyteller either, like the most succinct.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is something I talk about all the time, especially in job searching and interviewing.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: We need to learn how to answer questions fully but succinctly, but not too long, right?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is where AI is helpful.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: As we're thinking about how to tell a story, ask, tell AI the story.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ask AI to give you three or four different versions, the shortest version, the medium, the long.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, play with it.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and the other thing that's so important with storytelling, though, is authenticity.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: So again, AI can't tell the story for you authentically.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: You need to.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and being able to tell the story of your, especially if you're new into the job search world, if you're like young, telling your just sort of education story, your whether you were in sports or theater or band or whatever your story is, the jobs you've held and how that shaped you.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're a mid-stage professional where you've been working for 10 years, 15 years, learning how to craft that story and thinking about the questions and how to answer it.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: But back to your main question, learning how to tell a story is so important.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when we think about commercials, we think about shows, the ones that tell a story often grab our attention.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they stay in our memories.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's really one of the things that differentiates you as a professional and as a job searcher.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: You need to find little ways to stand out.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's a story.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing that makes you human once again.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I find AI helps me constantly because I will talk, I use Whisperflow.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you use Whisperflow, but I use Whisperflow and I will ramble on for like 10 minutes.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: I did something the other day, and it's like I got a warning that I was almost up to 20 minutes with my story.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: With my story that I was trying to create into like my weekly newsletter, which needs to be like a four-minute read.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been talking for 20 minutes about the story.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I find AI is so helpful in like weaving out like my little side tangents.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like bring it back.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like let's stick to the main point.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's an interesting part of your story.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you want to stick to what you were really trying to communicate, that's actually a different story altogether.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I found AI is really helpful in helping me concisely, like you say, be able to communicate about the parts of my story, to be able to create content that can communicate the story without telling every single solitary detail.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Story.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Stay with me.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I picture it.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a gymnast growing up, and I truly picture it.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like the way I communicate it to people is you're on the balance beam.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you like get too far to the left, too far to the right, you're falling off the beam.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that sucks, by the way.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: So because then you got to get back on, and that's so hard.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to stay in the middle of the beam as much as you can.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then you want to do your dismount because you're going across the beam, you're running out of beam.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I use a lot of like visualization when I'm coaching people on sort of how to kind of think things through and be successful in whatever it is.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so from a storytelling perspective, answering questions, try and stay on the beam and get to the dismount.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Have you a beginning, middle, and end?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Just like how we used to write.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: How we used to write back in the old days.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have a couple of questions before we run out of time and I could talk to you forever.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: So being an executive search firm, do individual people ever hire you to go try to find them a job?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a great question.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for asking it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of people don't understand how search firms work.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly, I really didn't when I was first in my career.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Recruiters are typically paid by companies to fill roles.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of professionals come to us asking for help in their job search.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we created a coaching side.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Where people can hire us on an hourly basis to help them with various parts of their job search.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we do not promise to find anyone a job because, you know, like we talked about, and I think this was offline before we started, you know, sometimes people don't always implement the coaching suggestions that we sometimes gently or not so gently make.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not gonna implement the things we say, we can't promise it's like, you know, an athlete promising to win a game.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can't always promise.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we are hired and paid by professionals to coach them.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't guarantee jobs.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: There are some recruiters who will charge 20,000, 40,000, 50,000 to um find you a job.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not something that I've heard great feedback on.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are people out there who are great, but it's not a model we do.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Understandable.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've done that in the dating world, and I can say that didn't work out so well.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it just feels like that's just you're trying to back into it, and that just doesn't work.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: I can totally see justifying paying your you as a coach to help, you know, with the resume, to help with the questions, to help, especially if you want to try to pivot or transition from one industry to another or one sector to another.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Helping to understand even the landscape.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people don't have a purview other than you know, the their little view of where they are right now, you know.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: It might sound exciting to work in HR, but if you've never done it, people might not have any idea.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like sales might sound exciting, but you know, once you get a lot of no's and you have triple the size quota the next year.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure you want to do that?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, please don't do it in tech, because then you're signing up for something no idea.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really helpful.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: So for the people who are listening, if someone is listening to this and they're thinking, okay, I've been out of the job market for a while, I'm really frustrated, nothing's happening, nothing's moving.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to Nikki.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: What could they do in the next few weeks specifically, do you think, to revamp their enthusiasm about the job market?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you haven't found a job, you still have to keep going.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you, what do you think they should try to do?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great question because it is so hard and it is mentally taxing to be job searching.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: So a shameless plug.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell what I tell everyone by the book.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to read your book.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's some really good stories in there, and it's full of information that yes, you know most of it.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people will roll their eyes, like and kind of laugh as I'm talking about, you know, some of the stuff in there.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then they read it and they're like, oh my God, you're so right.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot the fundamentals, I forgot the basics.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: And even someone like Eugene, who's hired hundreds, maybe thousands of people, it's different when you're on the other side of the desk.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing I tell people to do is get the book.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy to read, digestible.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about the common mistakes professionals of all levels make and the do's and don'ts.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is I do dive into the mental anguish that so many people truly suffer when job searching because it is hard.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you need to know that you have a friend and someone who understands that there is a lot that can kind of be sucked out of you.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I also try and establish realistic expectations so you know that, like, oh, I don't suck.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a loser.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I didn't wake up stupid.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is just normal.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is what happens.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so you read that, that gives you a lot of tools, first of all.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Second, you've got to think of it sort of like moving a five-bedroom house, selling your five-bedroom house and moving.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: You do not magically pack your house overnight.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: You don't put it on the market one day, have it sold, move the next day.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: There are little things you do every day to help you move forward.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's like being on a diet.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like getting in shape, like nothing happens instantly.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's little things you can do every day.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the first things I tell people to do is to look at their resume, look at their LinkedIn, have a professional evaluate that with them, help you improve it.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: So many people, some basics, miss writing on their resumes their results.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: They tell you their job roles, responsibilities, no results.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Results are everything that's what differentiates you from everyone.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to have results in there on your resume, on your LinkedIn.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to have a professional summary.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: We need to have LinkedIn filled out.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then we need to think about our networks and how do I reach out to them.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, every chapter in my book helps you understand how to do that.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so little things you can do every day that, you know, within two weeks, you're ready.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you're hitting the ground running.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: But the big mistake so many people make, and you and I, as salespeople know this spray and pray.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, you cannot just day one fire off a million emails and hope something good happens.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you've actually hurt yourself more than you've helped yourself.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to learn that before you learn the lesson the hard way.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: And being intentional with what you're doing.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I like the idea that it's it's a longer game and in and breaking it into chunks.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: If it's like, okay, this week, the task for this week is you have to get your LinkedIn mastered.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: You have to get your resume mastered, like you have to get these things done, you have to get some of your storytelling mastered.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what you do this week.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like, and then that's it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you've done it, then you then you've done it.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then you then you move on and trying to celebrate that success of crossing it off the list and you know know that you've accomplished something.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't look at it as I still don't have a job.
• 52:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, you'll you'll get one faster if you kind of follow the steps, right?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't just like launch your business one day and have it where it is today.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, nothing happens.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: But we're unfortunately we're a society that wants everything to happen immediately.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: We want it all immediately.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And our society has shown us that that's possible, but in the job market, it's just not.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the most, I think, next to your health and cancer, it is probably the most stressful thing most people have to deal with.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're so right.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have set up a society to expect everything overnight.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and we've also have a culture of people who are so angry when it doesn't happen overnight.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to go back to, and I know this sounds so cheesy, but gratitude.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you didn't wake up stupid, you didn't lose all your skills.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to come together.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Try to learn to enjoy the process.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's a lot that comes with this, and it's much easier said sitting in our seats.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when bills are hanging over your head and and uh you feel the walls closing in.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the anger just makes it that much harder to be productive and to to see how to be successful in the search so that you can actually get there.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: So two questions before we run out of time.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Have I missed anything?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know we could talk for hours, but have I missed anything really important?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll link your book in the show notes and everything like that for everybody too.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think the big thing I always am trying to tell people, especially right now, one is the market is uh it is tough, but every market is tough.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Every market is hard.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: This market has unique challenges.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, you and I met in 08 when the market was tanking.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've been through lots of markets, they're cyclical.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: The media especially likes to paint a negative picture because that's what keeps people glued to the TV.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to remember that things are often better than we're being told.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you they are absolutely better than we're being told.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to know how to look.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it will be far easier than you're thinking or experiencing.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I just want to hammer home is that AI is not taking away millions of jobs.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is changing things, but every technology has changed things.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: AI is our friend.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is helping us.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that there are things that it has changed and jobs that it has changed negatively, but for the most part, it's the benefits far away the negatives.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: So embrace it, learn to use it, get excited about it.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: And learn to use it.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think for people who are in the job market, if you're looking to fill your time, I know some people who are unemployed and they're taking classes in AI just so they can understand.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what a great way to spend your time.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: So spend a couple hours every week taking classes on how to use AI more effectively for business skills and and put it on your resume.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And put it on your resume, exactly.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's certifications you can get and that you took these courses.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it absolutely helps.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: It shows that you're embracing where companies are going instead of fighting against Yes.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:30
  unknown: Okay.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right, books.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we got yours.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yours is gonna be in the show notes.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I love to ask everyone if there's a book or books you can recommend more than one that has impacted you personally or professionally.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to know what your book recommendations are.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: So my first book that I am obsessed with and have been for 30 plus years, Sacred Hoops by coach Phil Jackson.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't read it, but I've heard of it.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is like a priceless book.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was first told to read it back in my 20s, like, yes, I'm a Chicagoan.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love basketball.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Michael Jordan era was magic.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, why would I read a book about coaching basketball?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that much, other than I loved watching it and going to games.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is so much more about Coach Phil's like leadership philosophies and how to work with all of these amazing people, different levels of talent, how to like manage individuals, how to deal with quieting your mind when there's so much noise and learning how to practice so you have muscle memory in the moment, and how to work as a we, not a me.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's an incredible book and something that I made my boys read and they love it.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it doesn't matter if you're an athlete, if you watch sports, it's he's so cool.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's very Zen Buddha.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then speaking of Zen, um, The Alchemist.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've read love.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Love.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Love.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I read this in my 20s, and it is so appropriate.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even for us, right?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's about what are you called to do and the journey of looking for something and your purpose and understanding that success isn't a straight line, like we talked about earlier.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much messiness in the middle, and you might not understand why things happened.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: The negatives aren't really negatives, they're what get you to the positives and like the journey and really appreciating the things that come with it.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such an amazing book.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when I coach people on reinventing their careers or refining their purpose or even just getting geared up to do the job search, like we talked about a minute ago.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really learning how to kind of dig deep.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: And not everything looks the way you think it should.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean it's wrong, right?
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of loss and disappointment in that book as well that happens.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that book was written at least a hundred years ago, I think.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: If not more.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such a good one.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had a podcast guest send me that book about a year and a half ago, and it's such a good one.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a good one.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I think everybody should read because it's truly, it's not like, here's how to find a job.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps you get it sort of back to that gratitude and just knowing it it is hard.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: The journey is hard, but that's what's beautiful.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: If it was easy, then we wouldn't know what was good.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that you don't know.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: You think you know the end game, but the beauty of that story is you actually don't know the end game at all.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: The the ebbs and flows have nothing to do with the end game that you think the main character is going towards.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like he thinks he is, but the reality is you see that that's actually not that's actually not the end game, which is so beautiful.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, I recommend it to everyone.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: And people sometimes look at me funny because they're like, that's not a business book.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but it is.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it is it's a life book.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a it's such a gift to read it.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're better for it.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can't put it down, so it's not boring and dry.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: But both of them, really, there's nothing boring or dry.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is not formulaic at all.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: And Alchemist is definitely like a real story.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's beautiful.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, that's it.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh, Nikki, thank you so much.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said at the beginning, I'm gonna have this come out in the middle of October.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this can really help people while we're in Q4 with the push towards the end of the year to revisit how they're doing on their job search.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: And even for people who are thinking maybe in the beginning of the year they might want to make a pivot.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now is the time to start thinking about these things and think about preparing yourself.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know from the industries I came in, you know, they're always layoffs in January.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so in sales, that's kind of what happens.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, put yourself ahead of the curve now.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Buy the book, read the book, start following Nikki, listen to her tools and her tips.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be caught off guard like I was.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my goodness, I haven't written a resume in 11 years.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always who can help you.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: There are.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's what I did.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're experts.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to be the expert in these things.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Go and find people that can help you.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are people that can help you write your LinkedIn profile, they can help you write your resume, they can help you take pictures, they can help you with your banner, that can help you understand AI.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many resources.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you're storytelling, right?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Crafting the stories, like you were saying.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Cute.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's cute.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Nikki, thank you so much.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was so good to see you again.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks now.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this will come out soon.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for being a great guest.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Have a beautiful day, everybody.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, everybody.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Building the Best You.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you are ready to take a deeper dive into transforming your life, check out my Empowerment Fundamentals course on my website, houseofgermar.com.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, and I will see you next week with another inspiring guest.