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Embracing Unexpected Detours: Empowering Neurodiverse Parenting with Insights from Debbie Reber · The Spiritual Parent: Mindful Tools for Raising Spiritual and Conscious Kids

• 0:00
  Debbie Reber: our kids are not broken.
• 0:01
  Debbie Reber: There's nothing wrong with who they are.
• 0:03
  Debbie Reber: There's nothing wrong about the fact that they have impulse differences or their attention is focused in different ways than might be expected, or they are more sensitive to certain things, or they're more attuned to in certain environments.
• 0:17
  Debbie Reber: That is who they are and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 0:19
  Debbie Reber: So I would just say, the more we can normalize and speak openly about our family's experience, the more we're going to be able to find other people, help other people feel, seen and realize oh, it's not just me, but it does require some bravery, I think, in order to just live openly about what's happening.
• 0:40
  Debbie Reber: Hi, conscious Parents.
• 0:42
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's Keri here and I am here with a little info about raising our mindful kids.
• 0:47
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I've got some tips and tricks about breaking free of the box and becoming who you are and teaching your kids how to do that along the way.
• 0:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Join us Hi there and welcome back.
• 0:57
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's Keri, your friendly mom here, and I am so excited with the guest I have here today.
• 1:02
  Carrie Lingenfelter: She really has resonated in my heart when I listen to her podcast and I have Debbie Reber here.
• 1:09
  Carrie Lingenfelter: She's a parent activist, bestselling author.
• 1:12
  Carrie Lingenfelter: She's the CEO, founder and the host of Tilt Parenting Podcast and she is on a mission of transforming lives of parents raising neurodiverse children.
• 1:23
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And I love the name of your book, Debbie, Differently Wired.
• 1:26
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So I am here today with Debbie and I just want to say, as a mom raising two neurodiverse kids, I feel like I can put down some of my walls of protection as a mom and just feel like I can connect with you heart to heart right away.
• 1:42
  Debbie Reber: Thanks so much, debbie.
• 1:43
  Debbie Reber: That's so nice.
• 1:44
  Debbie Reber: Thank you, k Carrie, I'm looking forward to this.
• 1:47
  Carrie Lingenfelter: You've talked in your book and elsewhere about connecting with our kids and meeting them where they're at.
• 1:53
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'd love to hear what you would say about this area.
• 1:58
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, I think for me and what I found with so many parents who are on this journey, that we often have our own agenda and plan for how we want to parent and what our lives are going to look like and who our children are going to be, and we often don't consider the human that that is in front of us right, and so much of our work, so much of my personal work, has been really respecting and acknowledging and getting to know the child that I'm raising and who they inherently are, for their all of their strengths and their neural divergence, and exactly who they're meant to be.
• 2:36
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, I love that.
• 2:38
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I feel like when we do that for our kids, it empowers them so much to be who they are and it seems like so many of our goal setting and our evaluations and everything is we're starting to start looking at the whole child, looking at their strengths and areas that we need to support them.
• 2:59
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So I really honor that.
• 3:01
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love that and I think you had mentioned creating a world where your child feels secure at home.
• 3:09
  Carrie Lingenfelter: If you can do it in the schools, that's great.
• 3:11
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I was recently able to do that, moving my kids to a socially, emotionally focused, project-based school, and it's been like night and day.
• 3:19
  Carrie Lingenfelter: My son, my nine-year-old son, went from I hate school to I love school and I know that not everybody can maybe make those changes or have that opportunity around them.
• 3:29
  Carrie Lingenfelter: But as a mom of two kids who are neurodiverse, I feel like sometimes I'm trying to figure out the triggers and I'm trying to prevent maybe things from happening to them or controlling the world around them.
• 3:45
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I feel like I'm walking on eggshells or maybe even being overprotective of sub parent.
• 3:49
  Carrie Lingenfelter: What would you say to mamas like me?
• 3:53
  Debbie Reber: First of all, that is so relatable.
• 3:55
  Debbie Reber: I feel like I've spent most of my life parenting my child, who's now 20, and feeling the same way.
• 4:02
  Debbie Reber: I think the first thing I would just say is that I have tested this over and over again.
• 4:08
  Debbie Reber: But we actually can't control anything.
• 4:10
  Debbie Reber: We can't control who our kids are, we can't protect them from experiencing loss and pain and sadness and frustration and all of those things, and actually we don't want to do that right, because that is the reality of living.
• 4:27
  Debbie Reber: A human experience is having the full range, and when I think about creating a secure world and that is one of my favorite tilts that I talk about it's really about helping our children, first of all, feel safe and seen with us as adults, so they do feel that we've got their back and that they have people in their corner to help them when life happens and when things get challenging.
• 4:53
  Debbie Reber: But ultimately we want our kids to and the word resilience, I feel like, is so vague and big and what does that even mean?
• 5:02
  Debbie Reber: But we want our kids to know that they have the resources within them to handle hard stuff when it comes up.
• 5:10
  Debbie Reber: And the way that I do that is by modeling handling hard stuff, like out loud talking about the hard stuff, talking about my disappointments and frustrations and being really authentic about how those things impact me, and looping my kid into those conversations so that he can see that, oh, mom's going through this is really hard for her and it's survivable.
• 5:35
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, I love that so much.
• 5:37
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I think there is so much that we are learning about ourselves as we're parenting these kids.
• 5:45
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Have you found that as well?
• 5:47
  Debbie Reber: Oh my gosh.
• 5:47
  Debbie Reber: Yes, I often call us parents of neurodivergent kids the wingsuit flyers of parenting, like because it is such an extreme sport.
• 5:56
  Debbie Reber: It really is, and it's because our kids demand that we show up for them.
• 6:01
  Debbie Reber: There's no way they're going to take simple answers.
• 6:05
  Debbie Reber: They're not going to just accept what we say without asking for a lot of evidence that it's true and they also really need to push.
• 6:16
  Debbie Reber: And in order for us to expand ourselves, we have to dig deep.
• 6:21
  Debbie Reber: We don't have to, but it's going to feel a lot worse if we don't.
• 6:25
  Debbie Reber: It's not necessarily the journey.
• 6:28
  Debbie Reber: When I was pregnant, I would have said, yeah, sign me up for that path.
• 6:31
  Debbie Reber: But here I am and I'm now so grateful because, yeah, I do.
• 6:35
  Debbie Reber: I wouldn't have done half this personal development work I've done as an adult if it was not for the fact that I was raising a kid who really demanded that I do that deep inquiry work.
• 6:46
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, yeah, there's so much that has really been brought up that I've been working on myself and looking at as an opportunity to heal.
• 6:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: There was somebody once that said I was expecting a trip to Italy and I somehow ended up in Amsterdam and not with my parenting journey.
• 7:05
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Right, you're expecting Italy and you end up in Amsterdam and really learning to absorb the Amsterdam, the Dutch shoes or you know I'm stereotyping here but really learning to absorb and cherish the path that we are on instead of maybe feeling lonely in it Sometimes.
• 7:25
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That leads me to my next question what would you say to the parent who feels alone, feels like no one else is going through this?
• 7:33
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That was definitely me, and how I ended up starting Heart to Heart Parents was feeling so alone, and that was before I discovered Tilt Parenting as well.
• 7:42
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, yeah, and I created Tilt for similar reasons because there are so many of us.
• 7:47
  Debbie Reber: First of all that's what I would say right off the bat there are so many of us raising neurodivergent kids.
• 7:53
  Debbie Reber: Statistically speaking, a very conservative estimate is that one in five kids are neurodivergent, and it's actually way more than that.
• 8:02
  Debbie Reber: So we're talking like worldwide billions of people here, right?
• 8:09
  Debbie Reber: So we're not outliers, and I, first of all, I always encourage parents to talk openly about what's going on in safe spaces, right, some people, it's not really safe to be really authentic and open about the challenges we're experiencing, but we also have to normalize the things that are hard so that we can find each other, because there's nothing wrong.
• 8:31
  Debbie Reber: Our kids are not broken.
• 8:33
  Debbie Reber: There's nothing wrong with who they are.
• 8:35
  Debbie Reber: There's nothing wrong about the fact that they have impulse differences or their attention is focused in different ways than might be expected, or they are more sensitive to certain things, or they're more attuned to in certain environments.
• 8:49
  Debbie Reber: That is who they are and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 8:52
  Debbie Reber: So I would just say, the more we can normalize and speak openly about our family's experience, the more we're going to be able to find other people, help other people, feel seen and realize, oh, it's not just me, but it does require some bravery, I think, in order to just live openly about what's happening.
• 9:13
  Debbie Reber: And can I share a little story that's just popped into my head?
• 9:16
  Debbie Reber: When I was going on the book tour for Differently Wired, I was at a bookstore I think it was near Allentown, pennsylvania and these women came up to me afterwards.
• 9:29
  Debbie Reber: It was about four women and they said we have known each other through soccer and band and all these like community things and they're like we didn't know each other was raising a neurodivergent kid until we saw each other here and they were so excited and they were going to create a little group and they were going to start and we were laughing about the fact that we should have t-shirts made that say my child has an IEP, so that we can find each other on the playground.
• 9:55
  Debbie Reber: But I just love that example so much, like we are everywhere and when we find other parents who are walking the same path, it really can change everything for us.
• 10:09
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love that so much.
• 10:10
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I would love a t-shirt.
• 10:11
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I would sport that t-shirt proudly and it.
• 10:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's so amazing to be able to connect that's.
• 10:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That really resonates with me.
• 10:18
  Carrie Lingenfelter: You know not knowing that other people are maybe going through the same thing we were in the mall the other day and we thought everybody was energized and ready for it and we had a little bit of a meltdown at Bath Body Works and we were leaving the mall.
• 10:35
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We were like, okay, let's get to the car so we can reset.
• 10:37
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And on the way to the car there were so many people my parents' age group.
• 10:43
  Carrie Lingenfelter: There were so many couples that were just giving us this look Like why are they not?
• 10:49
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Why are you not reprimanding them?
• 10:51
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Why are you not parenting them?
• 10:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So what would you say to a mom that's going through that?
• 10:59
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, I would say that, first of all, people judge because they are afraid it triggers their own insecurities.
• 11:06
  Debbie Reber: So all those, believe me, I've gotten plenty of those looks too, and it feels terrible, especially if you're someone who is overly sensitive, as I was, about what other people thought of me as a parent.
• 11:17
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, and I have learned that people are projecting their own fears and concerns about their children on us when they're judging us Right, and so it's triggering, like this insecurity about am I doing enough as a parent?
• 11:35
  Debbie Reber: Or what would I do?
• 11:36
  Debbie Reber: Or, um, am I doing?
• 11:38
  Debbie Reber: Am I a good enough parent?
• 11:40
  Debbie Reber: So that's the first thing I would say it's not actually about us, it's about them.
• 11:46
  Debbie Reber: And the other thing is we have to just learn to shake it off.
• 11:50
  Debbie Reber: Every time I hear the Taylor Swift song, I just I, literally I'm like I don't need any of that stuff, it does not belong to me, it has nothing to do with me, and that's a muscle that we build over time.
• 12:02
  Debbie Reber: It's hard to get those looks and act like it doesn't bother us, but when we're in those moments, we have to prioritize our kids' safety.
• 12:11
  Debbie Reber: We don't want our kids to feel that we're throwing them under the bus or that we are embarrassed or shamed by their behavior.
• 12:16
  Debbie Reber: We really need to remember that our child is having that reaction because they feel threatened or unsafe.
• 12:24
  Debbie Reber: Their nervous system has completely triggered and our job is just to help them regulate again, and that's the only thing that matters in that situation.
• 12:35
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yes, that's so important for them not to walk away feeling shamed, or for us not to walk away feeling shamed in that moment and I love shake it off, I'm definitely.
• 12:45
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I think I might have to add that to my playlist so if we get in that car, we're in that situation, we could shake it off.
• 12:51
  Carrie Lingenfelter: My husband and I are both people recovering, people pleasers, so shaking it off will be a awesome laughter and dance and movement, I feel like is a perfect way to reset in those moments.
• 13:05
  Carrie Lingenfelter: But my next question is from my husband.
• 13:07
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I asked him this morning.
• 13:08
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I was telling him who I was chatting with and I was like what do you think I should ask?
• 13:12
  Carrie Lingenfelter: What would you want to?
• 13:13
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And he said he would love to know what's the most important thing that he can do for our kids.
• 13:20
  Debbie Reber: As a father.
• 13:21
  Debbie Reber: Yeah Gosh, where do I start?
• 13:24
  Debbie Reber: First of all, I love that that you asked that.
• 13:26
  Debbie Reber: You asked him a question to participate in this conversation.
• 13:30
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, I think just doing the work on just anybody in my community.
• 13:35
  Debbie Reber: I'm all about do the work on yourself so that you can best show up for who this child is.
• 13:40
  Debbie Reber: And I that's the same thing with my husband and I that we're always talking about.
• 13:44
  Debbie Reber: We contribute in different ways to our family and to what our child needs we have.
• 13:50
  Debbie Reber: We bring different strengths to the table when it comes to supporting dysregulation or any of that stuff.
• 13:57
  Debbie Reber: But I would say, just continue to do the work on yourself to prioritize your own personal growth, notice where your triggers are and get curious about investigating those as well.
• 14:09
  Debbie Reber: And when I talk with parents a lot about couplehood too, because it is really hard for a lot of families and often it is at least my community is probably 95% women in kind of heteronormative relationships and that's and there's a lot of conversation.
• 14:31
  Debbie Reber: How do I get my husband on board on the same page, and all of that stuff.
• 14:34
  Debbie Reber: And I think it's not about having our partner show up in the exact same way.
• 14:39
  Debbie Reber: It's about having each partner again show up in the way that they can, seeing our partner with compassion in that dynamic and not expecting them to do things exactly the way we do, letting go of a little bit of control so that they can navigate their own unique relationship with our kids, which is very separate from ours, right.
• 15:04
  Debbie Reber: So we want to respect and nurture that and know that it matters just as much as our relationship with our child and the way that we do things.
• 15:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:15
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I think when you can really come together in the challenges and definitely as a mom, acknowledging the challenge that they're going through as well, because maybe they had that trip to Italy planned in their mind as well.
• 15:28
  Carrie Lingenfelter: My partner is definitely somebody.
• 15:31
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm really lucky in that certain times when I'm feeling overwhelmed in a situation with our kiddos, I can turn and say can you get a laugh going Like, can you help to reset this?
• 15:43
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I'm so, I'm kind of under the water here and I can't surface right now.
• 15:49
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So that's a really helpful part for us in our journey.
• 15:53
  Debbie Reber: I love that question I'm going to.
• 15:54
  Debbie Reber: I'm going'm gonna use that.
• 15:56
  Debbie Reber: Can you just do something?
• 15:58
  Debbie Reber: Like do a pratfall or something make me laugh, like just get the change the energy yeah, like to get me to laugh too?
• 16:05
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I didn't even think about I was thinking like to get our kids to laugh to help them reset if they're in the yellow zone and I'm just seeing this kind of going downhill right to get them to laugh and move or reset.
• 16:15
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Um, but also, yeah, I, I need that laughter too.
• 16:18
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Mom needs it, yeah, for sure.
• 16:20
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So we love that you had touched on community a bit, and I think I'm in so many mom groups which I'm sure you're all over online and seeing community as something that so many of us are searching for, because we can let the walls come down, we can feel like we don't have to worry about.
• 16:40
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Right now, behind my camera, I have a Crunch Lab box that's open and model train railroad pieces all over the table and I feel like I have to close it off and mask myself when something's over.
• 16:56
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I don't want them to see the chaos, to maybe judge us, or I try to fit inside the box.
• 17:01
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So I feel like community is a huge piece.
• 17:04
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Do you have any tips for local community or any of those pieces for us?
• 17:09
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, I do think community is so important.
• 17:11
  Debbie Reber: I would say that sometimes community can even be like one really good anchor friend who's who respects and loves you and your child and your family.
• 17:23
  Debbie Reber: I think having that person is really important.
• 17:26
  Debbie Reber: I encourage people to create community.
• 17:29
  Debbie Reber: At one point before COVID, people were creating tilt together like in-person groups, which was really cool to see, and even like group of two or three people right to get together once every couple of weeks in person can.
• 17:43
  Debbie Reber: So I would I'm a big fan of.
• 17:44
  Debbie Reber: If it doesn't exist, create it.
• 17:46
  Debbie Reber: So, if you have a couple of people like start a book club or do something super informal, just to create that safe space.
• 17:54
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, yeah, of course, I'm in a lot of online communities too, but and I would also just say some of my community, the people that really fill me up.
• 18:04
  Debbie Reber: They're not even parents, like they're not, but they support me and champion me in my parenting journey.
• 18:11
  Debbie Reber: So community doesn't have to be also people who are in the exact same situation as you are when we're looking to flesh out our community or I call it our high Jedi council like creating our team, our support team of people that can just hold space for us or that we know we can call if we've had just the worst day and we need a safe person to go for a walk with or just call and cry to and know that we're not going to be judged.
• 18:39
  Debbie Reber: That doesn't even have to be a parent in the same situation, so we can identify who are those people who just really love us and, most importantly, love our family and care about our family and our kids.
• 18:51
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, yeah, that's so wonderful.
• 18:53
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love the Jedi team phrase.
• 18:55
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That's so wonderful.
• 18:56
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I love the Jedi team phrase.
• 18:57
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That's great.
• 18:57
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yes, for me it's definitely been.
• 19:00
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's not even in the neurodiverse area, but I go to a weekly Qigong, which is like a Tai Chi energy movement class, just to help me reset before the weekend, to help me re-energize myself.
• 19:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And what are your thoughts on self-care?
• 19:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I feel like that's the big buzzword right now.
• 19:20
  Debbie Reber: I mean, I call it conscious maintenance, just because I feel like the idea of self-care gets a bad rap.
• 19:25
  Debbie Reber: I am a huge proponent of it and I actually think it is one of the most important things we have to do as parents.
• 19:32
  Debbie Reber: It is not optional Parents of neurodivergent kids, it's just.
• 19:35
  Debbie Reber: There's no way that we can, that we will have the capacity to show up for our kids, who again demand so much from us, if we are not filling up our own resources.
• 19:49
  Debbie Reber: It's just we're not going to be able to do it.
• 19:51
  Debbie Reber: It's going to hurt us, it's going to hurt our relationship with our kids.
• 19:54
  Debbie Reber: We're also not going to model what it takes to be human and to take care of ourselves.
• 20:00
  Debbie Reber: Huge fan, and I will say last year was one of the roughest years that I have had, even worse than like the first year of the pandemic, and for a number of reasons.
• 20:13
  Debbie Reber: And I'm really good at white knuckle parenting and I'm a runner and I do all the things right.
• 20:19
  Debbie Reber: I read the books, I listen to the podcasts, I I have the support team and I still was not doing well.
• 20:26
  Debbie Reber: And I I was working with a therapist and she said Debbie, you need to this isn't you need to actually do something different.
• 20:33
  Debbie Reber: You need to create more space for yourself.
• 20:35
  Debbie Reber: And I started doing acupuncture, which I forgot.
• 20:40
  Debbie Reber: I'm like, oh yeah, this is amazing.
• 20:42
  Debbie Reber: But I also.
• 20:43
  Debbie Reber: She said to me Debbie, you need to go to yoga and you need.
• 20:47
  Debbie Reber: I was like, yeah, I'll do yoga with Adrienne on YouTube.
• 20:50
  Debbie Reber: I forgot about her.
• 20:50
  Debbie Reber: I'll get she's.
• 20:51
  Debbie Reber: Now.
• 20:51
  Debbie Reber: You need to go to an in-person class.
• 20:54
  Debbie Reber: That is your homework.
• 20:56
  Debbie Reber: Find a yoga studio, she said make sure it doesn't smell bad.
• 21:04
  Debbie Reber: Find a yoga studio where you feel comfortable and try out a few classes.
• 21:06
  Debbie Reber: And I went.
• 21:06
  Debbie Reber: I found a class.
• 21:06
  Debbie Reber: The first one I tried.
• 21:08
  Debbie Reber: It was a restore, restorative and move yoga class with this woman, shanaz, who spent the first 10 minutes helping us tap into our polyvagal nervous system, and I was like, oh my God, this is just what I needed.
• 21:26
  Debbie Reber: And I was like I found the class and I did not miss that class for six months and I healed because of that class.
• 21:33
  Debbie Reber: So I think it's really sorry I'm going off on a tangent, but I'm really passionate about this stuff and it's so important because it's not just getting through the day, it's actually.
• 21:46
  Debbie Reber: It takes such a toll on our long term health for us to be in this hyper vigilance like fight or flight mode and as I'm getting older I'm like, oh actually this could shorten my life significantly if I don't address this.
• 22:00
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, I can get through the day and I can do the things, but if my nervous system is in this chronic stress mode all the time, that's not good.
• 22:10
  Debbie Reber: It's not good for anybody.
• 22:13
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Yeah, oh, my gosh, I love your tangent.
• 22:15
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I think your tangent is spot on.
• 22:16
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I was going to a counselor.
• 22:18
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We had a natural disaster near our house, a wildfire that took out like 60 homes within our area, and the counselor had told me you need to think about the state that you're living in.
• 22:33
  Carrie Lingenfelter: You're living in that fight, flight or freeze state and raising your kids.
• 22:37
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Sometimes I use the term neurodiverse.
• 22:39
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I also use the term gifted, spirited and highly sensitive in our house To identify with this and really just finding those moments of calming the brain and resetting.
• 22:53
  Carrie Lingenfelter: And it's so important for our parents raising these kids so important because if my bucket is not full, how can I give to them, how can I be in that calm state to make them laugh, help them calm down over a sensory experience you're so right on, so you might have to check out Qigong for yourself.
• 23:15
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's kind of a a tricky spelling, but that's.
• 23:17
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's been a an awesome place for me to connect and build community as well and finding also parents going through similar situations, switching gears.
• 23:27
  Carrie Lingenfelter: As we're talking, actually, a little bit about mindfulness, I wanted to check if you had any mindful tools that you found work in your family or you've heard in the sphere, the social media sphere, that you have found, that you connect with.
• 23:43
  Debbie Reber: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 23:44
  Debbie Reber: I've definitely explored some of the apps like Headspace and the Calm app I've done at various times in terms of meditation.
• 23:56
  Debbie Reber: I've tried that on and off and my ADHD brain is oh, you're going to sit down quietly, let's turn on and start thinking about all the things.
• 24:06
  Debbie Reber: I've realized that meditation isn't great for me.
• 24:09
  Debbie Reber: For me, mindfulness has been really all about nature and proactively creating experiences in nature where I actually am like, oh, I'm going to do my 5K in this gorgeous forest near my house without my AirPods today because I just want to be in this moment.
• 24:30
  Debbie Reber: And I do this thing called park run every Saturday in the park and it's a 5K with a group of a couple hundred people and I'm very competitive, so I'm always wanting to beat people in my age group, but I will stop because I stopped and took nine pictures on Saturday because I was just.
• 24:48
  Debbie Reber: I just look around the whole time and I just try to.
• 24:51
  Debbie Reber: I don't want to miss it.
• 24:53
  Debbie Reber: So that's how I do.
• 24:55
  Debbie Reber: Mindfulness is when I'm in nature and I I try to just really soak it all in.
• 25:01
  Debbie Reber: It's just especially because I moved back to the Netherlands after being in New York City for five years and I am just loving the access to nature so much and it is really healing in so many ways.
• 25:15
  Carrie Lingenfelter: That's so powerful that you're understanding what your system is needing, following those needs and I don't know if you've heard of movement meditation it's connecting with ourselves during movement and that's I would call possibly and I might be overstepping or not, you can accept it or not but those feelings that you have while you're running and connecting with nature and yourself and accepting nature around you and finding the beauty in that, that's a form of movement meditation.
• 25:50
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So I love that idea.
• 25:52
  Carrie Lingenfelter: For people who can't, you know, turn down the brain, you're finding a way to turn down the brain through movement.
• 25:57
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Skiing is like my movement meditation.
• 26:00
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I don't wear ear pods because I love the sound of swoosh swoosh in the wind and the trees and feeling the movement in my body and connecting in that way.
• 26:09
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So that's a really powerful version of meditation.
• 26:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Awesome, you're doing your own version, which is so part of neurodiversity right is finding our own path and finding that for ourselves.
• 26:23
  Carrie Lingenfelter: So I had one more question I wanted to ask you what would you say to the parent who may hold fear in their heart for the future?
• 26:33
  Carrie Lingenfelter: What would you tell that parent Sorry, I just went ahead.
• 26:39
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Sure, and it can be the future.
• 26:40
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's a very general question.
• 26:43
  Carrie Lingenfelter: I just felt guided to this question.
• 26:44
  Debbie Reber: In any parents that may be nervous or fearful about the future, maybe for you can look at the perspective of, maybe for their kids, maybe the perspective of themselves, yeah, so I'm gonna do it through the perspective of our kids, because I think that is one of the biggest pain points is our fear about what is this going to look like, especially because if it's hard right now, it's so hard to imagine a time when it's not going to be hard.
• 27:12
  Debbie Reber: It's so hard to imagine a future where kids are going to be autonomous, independent, self-determined whatever words you want to use.
• 27:22
  Debbie Reber: I would say that our kids are always changing and evolving, as are we Like.
• 27:30
  Debbie Reber: Nothing is stagnant.
• 27:31
  Debbie Reber: Our kids, especially neurodivergent kids, their developmental trajectory is super jagged and uneven and they're going to have a huge leap forward and then take 20 steps back, and it's going to be perplexing and all of those things.
• 27:44
  Debbie Reber: But I would say our kids are here on their own journey.
• 27:49
  Debbie Reber: It is their life.
• 27:51
  Debbie Reber: They are their own creative, resourceful and whole human being.
• 27:54
  Debbie Reber: Our job is to support them.
• 27:56
  Debbie Reber: It is to guide them.
• 27:58
  Debbie Reber: It is to, it is to guide them it is going to unfold, to not put our own agendas or hopes or wishes on our child, to really respect that they're on their own journey and how can I support them in creating the life that they want?
• 28:32
  Debbie Reber: It's not about us.
• 28:34
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thank you so much for that.
• 28:36
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thank you so much for being here and thank you so much for being brave and starting Tilt Parenting, putting yourself out there in the public light to share these pieces with so many families going through this.
• 28:48
  Debbie Reber: Thank you so much, Keri.
• 28:49
  Debbie Reber: I really appreciated this.
• 28:51
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Well, that's a wrap.
• 28:52
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thanks so much for tuning in.
• 28:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Changemakers.
• 28:54
  Carrie Lingenfelter: This is Keri, and if you haven't done a review for us five stars and a little few words about what you've enjoyed in our podcast episodes we would really appreciate it.
• 29:05
  Carrie Lingenfelter: If you guys would like to ever message me, I would love any questions you have or any feedback at info at hearttoheartlifecom.
• 29:14
  Carrie Lingenfelter: We also have a brand new website which we're super excited to share.
• 29:17
  Carrie Lingenfelter: It's hearttoheartlifecom.
• 29:20
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Thanks so much for tuning in and happy life, happy times.
• 29:24
  Carrie Lingenfelter: Changemaker families.