Latest / Life. Money. You.® Podcast / S3|E19: Financial Realities of Caregiving in America

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S3|E19: Financial Realities of Caregiving in America · Life. Money. You.® Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Life Money You Podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dani Bushik, program manager and your host, and I'm here with Kim, our coach of coaches, and a very special guest.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are joined by Jin Wu, a manager on the Workplace Solutions team at FHN, the Financial Health Network.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: He works with employers to design smart strategies that improve employee financial well-being while strengthening business outcomes.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: With a background in economics and public policy, Jin Wu has led financial wellness initiatives at Ownership Works, advised policymakers as a senior economist, and began his career in New York City government.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's passionate about helping workers, especially those with low to moderate incomes, and helping them build stronger financial futures.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Jinwoo.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's so great to have you here.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I hear a lot of great things about podcasts and have been a listener for the past few months.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for having me and excited to talk about these issues.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at the Financial Health Network, we are the nationwide leading authority when it comes to financial health.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: And we really want to think about how we can improve the financial future of everyone, especially those who are struggling.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the main things we came across was that uh caregiving responsibilities is a huge financial strain.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we see in our data that we've uh kind of reported on that only about 31% of Americans are considered financially healthy.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: This means that the vast majority of American households are struggling to build their savings, manage their day-to-day expenses, and planning for their financial future.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of reasons for this, but one of them is that uh the responsibilities of caregiving have become very expensive.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's been uh information and data from AARP and so on showing that the cost of caring for your loved ones has increased substantially.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and as much as one out of four people have caregivers have taken on the additional debt to manage their current caregiving responsibilities.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we thought that this is something that needs to be talked about more, something that needs to be kind of have more awareness on, and really something that America is kind of the outlier in when compared to other high-income countries.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: But that's really what sparked it, and we really want to kind of put a spotlight on it so that people are more aware of these issues and different ways that employers could help out their workforce.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a million percent.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And let's just kind of get closer and let's zoom in.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: When someone needs to step away for caregiving, Jinwu, how does it typically hit their finances first?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there's a lot of ways to look at it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think first and foremost, one of the main things we see is that when someone is forced to step away from their job, uh, take unpaid leave off, or cut back on their hours in order to take care of their loved one, whether that be an elderly family member or their child or so on, you see that immediately there's a fall in their cash flow.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and what this uh when that happens, the first response isn't necessarily to cut back, because a lot of these people are oftentimes already living paycheck and paycheck to just keep up with their daily expenses, things that they need for survival, food, electricity bills, you know, essential uh basic benefits and utilities that they need.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you see that they actually go deeper into debt uh first and foremost.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes that could be maxing out credit cards or taking on more uh different forms of high cost debt, which we could also get into.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when that when that happens, first and foremost, um you see that they are struggling to just keep up with whatever amount of debt that they have currently while paying the bills.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when they take on the higher level of debt, we see that this is actually reflective in what's going on nationally.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, according to the Federal Reserve, we're reaching near all-time levels of debt by households.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: This excludes mortgages.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think that it's about$5 trillion in terms of the national debt that American households have outside of housing mortgages.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And without that uh cushion of uh being able to pay off whatever essential benefits that they have, they struggle to save up for their long-term goals, uh, whether that be for their children's education or buying a house or having more stability for their family in the future.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one example we have of this is in some of the stories that we tell in our work is uh someone like uh Ori Yukuku.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, she is a 45-year-old woman in Atlanta, Georgia.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: She works at a small nonprofit that helps children and families.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: But she's also one of the many 63 million Americans who are struggling uh as a caregiver.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, even though she has a full-time job every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, she has to balance her full-time job with taking her parents to their medical appointment.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and she's just one of the many tens of millions of Americans who have these invisible responsibilities and financial obligations uh to their loved ones.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, main thing is at the end of the day, they take on more debt, but also if that is not tenable anymore, you see them kind of cutting back on essential services, uh, essential uh kind of utilities that they need, and oftentimes not savings for their future or their children's future or their family's future.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't mind, I it it really resonates with me because it's a constant trade-off, right?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're constantly trading off, whether it's balancing the debt load, the stress of how am I going to pay or cover these things financially?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's also the stress or concern of am I doing enough work at work?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then also like, how else will I get my loved one to the appointment?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: How else will we accomplish this?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then that should be priority over.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this should be priority over.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like a constant narrative of everything is number one level priority.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I feel like it just as somebody who can really resonate with this, it tends to feel heavy, but it's heavy on so many different levels.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you also see it show up in the workplace, like even though um whatever happens outside the workplace oftentimes affects how you show up in the workplace.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you're so focused on your other obligations to your loved ones, your the stress from your finances, it often leads to higher levels of uh disengagement at the job, lower levels of productivity.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sometimes it leads to retention issues.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people leave their job or leave the workforce, uh, especially when it comes to women in the workforce, because they're the ones who are the primary caregivers, oftentimes.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, even from the business and employer angle, there is an incentive to offer uh some kind of paid leave program or flexibility so that this kind of issues don't creep into the workplace and affecting their bottom line.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the data shows about 60% of workers are already living paycheck to paycheck.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to us more about how access to this paid leave is an equal?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, like I said, one uh one of the main findings of our research is that the majority of caregivers are women and oftentimes they're disproportionately women of color, especially.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you see that the bigger burden falls on these populations.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And on top of that, when these kinds of things cascade into bigger issues, um uh based on our surveys and research, about 15% of households actually end up kind of being worried about food security, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, or they end up skipping on their bills due to a lack of funds.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then, you know, a smaller percentage, around 9%, you see them start to miss rent payments and mortgage payments, which are essential for kind of uh everyday living.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and then what's worse is uh another time, other times they fall deeper into debt.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: You see them kind of fall into the cycle of uh accumulating more debt, not being able to save or paying off the debt, and then this kind of snowballs into bigger and bigger issues down the line.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: So these are some one of the many issues that they have when it comes to this.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: And like we said before, you also see it in the workplace.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oftentimes, that financial stress, the stress of caring for another one and having to deal with the navigation and the uh balancing act could also really affect uh how they show up in the workplace.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for those caregivers that have the benefit at work of paid family leave, talk to us about why they're not even using it, but it is a benefit available to them.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely a lot of workers do have access to paid family leave, but actually, only about half of the workforce, uh full-time workforce in the US has access to some sort of paid leave program.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there's federal legislation that's been passed saying that everyone has some form of unpaid leave at most.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, in terms of paid leave, even those who have it, oftentimes they don't take uh up on that offer for a whole host of reasons.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it could be in some ways that there is no culture of encouraging that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there could be a culture of like you shouldn't step away from your job, your job is the most important thing, everything else kind of comes second.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, another thing is that oftentimes, and there's some research showing this too, where if people step away from their job, especially, and this really affects uh uh women in the workforce, it it all it could end up stalling their careers in terms of promotions and moving up as they step away from their job to take care of other duties outside of the workplace.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh in order to deal with this, employers need to start encouraging.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we as a society also need to start encouraging kind of taking some kind of lead or some flexibility at work because everyone has many different responsibilities outside of kind of showing up to their job every day.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then one thing that also is missing from this discussion is how many other workers, especially those who might be part-time or in the gig economy or working for smaller businesses, have no form of any kind of paid or unpaid lead policy.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So uh there needs to be a discussion of how do we help out those workers, those who are the most struggling and most vulnerable, and may might be in the most need of these uh kind of benefits in order to manage their workplace issues and also the duties that they have to their loved ones.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can I put you on the spot, Jin Wu?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think we're supposed to help them?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of ways to do it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would say kind of what we mentioned at the top of the show.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things about the US is it is an outlier when it comes to similar countries like us.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, similar countries of our level of income, especially when we look at Western Europe or East Asia, they do have a national paid leave program.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, some are much uh even Canada, our neighbor right upstairs, has a uh national paid lead program.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, difference in terms of what they're offering and the time length that they offer, some of our them are much more generous than ours.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: But the fact that the US as a baseline has no paid lead program at all uh is something that is of concern.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And this isn't just a political issue, this isn't really a political issue.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, policymakers across the spectrum realize that this is something that's affecting our workforce.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, even the previous uh chairman of the Fed uh would talk about how the US is kind of an outlier in terms of not offering some kind of pay v program.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And this would actually help increase the labor participation of our workforce, especially when it comes to women, because like we mentioned before, they are oftentimes the ones uh who bear the heavy burden uh or the main responsibility of uh of being a caregiver in their household.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I think first and foremost, there's a policy response.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: But secondly, I think there needs to be a societal and kind of workplace norm where we kind of see it now as we encourage people to kind of take up some kind of paid leave policy when uh they need to take care of a loved one or their child and so on.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Also, there needs to be a flexibility in the in the workforce.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, one of the great things about the pandemic, uh, I mean, not that there was much, but is this rise of work from home and kind of introducing more flexibility in the workforce.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if we kind of could continue to encourage that kind of expectation where people are allowed to kind of manage multiple responsibilities, as long as of course that they're doing, they're showing up doing their main roles at their job, but if they're able to kind of have some level of flexibility to kind of drop off their kids, take their parents to maybe a medical appointment, uh, that could go a long way to alleviating a lot of the pressures that we see affecting people.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that was great, Jen Woo.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Kim, do you have any other thoughts?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get you to intervene again and add some thoughts.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I really appreciate the perspective of even something as easy as allowing more remote opportunities to be available really helps with lightening that load.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say candidly, my position just you know, a year and a half ago was a more frontline position where I was going to a branch and talking to members and working with them directly.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And in my own personal life as things progressed, and I needed to be more present for my mom.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I had to be somebody who was looking at other opportunities that would allow for that flexibility for me to be home and not necessarily um need to be, you know, connected to my phone at all times in case a member called.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I needed to have that ability to get a lot of my work done at maybe a different hour of the of the day so that I could also take, you know, my mom to an appointment or, you know, just be present with her while she's there at home.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know I was reading something recently that said something along the lines of like 42% of employees say that they would turn down a promotion now over accepting a promotion because they're trying to have that work-life balance and balancing of everything.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I found it interesting, but also at the same time, I was also nodding my head in agreeance of yeah, same.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, just to piggyback off that, I think obviously it's important to have some kind of living wage where people are able to have enough money from their paycheck to just live day to day.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: But also, I think what people really want is some level of flexibility, uh, especially if they want to raise a family or take care of a loved one.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what's the point of having a job if you're not able to provide that for those you love?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So people are recognizing that fact.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh recent changes in uh kind of the workplace shows that people really do consider these things almost as important in many ways.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's something that employers and we uh and we as a country need to recognize.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure, for sure.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like when I think about caregiving, it's not even just like my parents and my my family in that sense.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's also, I know Danny, in a recent episode, we talked about like preparing for summer camp for my little ones.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like even sending my kids to camp is so much more costly than it was just a few years ago, that we are intentionally saving at the beginning and throughout the year so that my kids could go to camp so that while I'm working from home over the summer, I can make sure that they have that attention that they need, you know, throughout the day that I am needing to direct elsewhere.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say someone takes the opportunity of the paid family leave.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: What does the data tell us about financial setbacks that they might experience when returning to work?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think one thing we mentioned before is that oftentimes when someone takes on a caregiving responsibility, uh, some of the survey data, especially from the AARP, shows that one out of four caregivers go into deeper debt as a response as a result of their caregiving duties.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of times when they come back into the workforce, they're kind of trying to dig themselves out of a certain financial hole that they are in because of whatever obligations that they have.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so one thing we need to recognize is that folks are coming in with certain kinds of financial stress already from the caregiving role that they were doing.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's also a loss in wages.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the National Partnership for Women and Families talked about how we're leaving about$22 billion worth of lost wages by not having a paid leave program because people are forced to leave the workforce and cut back on their job and so on.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if there was some kind of paid leave program, they could take that opportunity to kind of take care of the family while also having a job to kind of make up whatever lost wages that they have.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another issue that you know people are leaving money at the table.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes people are leaving the workforce as a whole and having a hard time re-entering the workforce.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, right now the job market is pretty tough, and we're already seeing that where people may have left the workforce during the pandemic or a whole host of reasons and are having a lot of issues kind of coming back into the workforce.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one of the main issues.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: We really got to think about different ways that we can make it easier for people to re-enter the workforce.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And when they do, what supports can we give them so that they could kind of build themselves out of whatever financial hold they might be in because of whatever duties and responsibilities that they were trying to deal with before they were looking for a job?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked a lot about just the reality of family caregiving today.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know Kim and myself, we talk about, right, like the sandwich generation.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us more about that specific demographic and how they're being impacted by current funding cuts, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like on um Medicare, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: How is that impacting all of this right now?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it depends.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously there's been a lot of cuts in terms of social services.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: It also depends on which kind of local municipality or state you live in based on the benefit structures of your local area.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, we're kind of entering a new space where there's arguably about four to five to six different generations in your workforce, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: From the boomers all the way to Gen Z and maybe even Gen Alpha to some degree, depending on you know, uh where you're at.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: So they're uh, you know, particularly uh Gen X and millennials are kind of crushed between having to provide for maybe their retiring parents or people who might have left the workforce uh and might need medical treatment, and also for uh their youngest kids who might be just starting to start out in life.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that that is producing enormous strain.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, a lot of the things that we took for granted, like Medicare and all these other benefits to help out our elderly parents or you know uh relatives, simply aren't there, aren't as robust anymore.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they're uh and then on the other end, um, you know, childcare options are becoming more expensive.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: So they also have to kind of figure out a way to deal with that while taking care of maybe older relatives.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it is producing a lot of strain.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, just to add another piece of uh the cherry on top, housing prices have gone up really high.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: So they're also trying to establish a life for their family while providing for their kids and taking care of their elderly relatives.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, everything is being cut back across the board.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it is definitely, yeah, it is uh a crisis on multiple levels.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is why we thought that this issue was so important to highlight and really showcasing like the enormous strain that uh uh kind of uh many people are under and the different ways that employers can kind of get involved to helping such people uh through better workplace policies, such as offering some kind of flexibility workplace, hopefully some kind of paid leave program, uh different ways to support their uh workforce who are dealing with all these different responsibilities and financial stresses in their lives.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, same along the lines of like uh I think if workplaces had more benefits, such as like the leave side of things, that would be amazing.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: But like right now, in certain situations where maybe that's just not the case, similar to what we're kind of in, I definitely take advantage of things like the pre-tax options that we have, like uh contributing to dependent care at the beginning of the year, so that I can try to save at the end of the year for taxes and things.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it feels a little bit heavier because it takes from your paycheck every two weeks when you get paid.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I know somewhere along the lines when we file our taxes, it benefits in the long run.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So taking in advantage of employer benefits that are available now also is super helpful as well.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I know with the housing, it's it's really hard.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm saying, I was saying earlier with the trade-offs, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're constantly finding these trade-offs.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: That the house that we're in right now is becoming a little bit small for my family, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: But our interest rate is so good and we owe so little compared to where the market is right now for any other house that we are like, you know what?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: We will paint the house and declutter and do whatever we can around here that will make it feel a little bit um more spacious or make it feel a little bit better for us right now until maybe things change or we're in a different financial position where we can better afford something bigger.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And going off of that, I think this is where, like uh someone like Kim, uh, I mean, you're an expert when it comes to kind of dealing with these issues.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Think about folks who don't have access to that kind of knowledge or resources.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it really helps.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Offer some kind of financial coaching program or some kind of uh financial knowledge resource where they need that they could they they are able to kind of navigate the different choices in front of them, how to kind of balance the different responsibilities they have.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So there's uh you know many different ways to kind of deal with the issue.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of a whack-em-all, like which which issue am I kind of dealing with, which benefit do I use to help with which issue?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's the the tax issue with the pre-tax uh using dependence, there's other ways of like thinking about how you pay for healthcare and whatnot.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, how do I manage my leave policy in the best way?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: So employers are really uh, there's a lot of ways that they could address it by not only providing the different benefits to address specific issues in their in the lives of their employees, but also offering them some kind of resource or uh kind of financial guide to help them navigate those choices as well, because it can be overwhelming.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, Jen Wu Kim, I just launched an employee resource group.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is in theory, I just launched an employee resource group that is for paid family leave.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are the top three things that you would be communicating to this community to prepare them for that endeavor, whether they pursue it or whether they look for, for lack of a better word, loopholes, other ways to maximize their life during the difficult time that they're going through?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think first and foremost, it helps to kind of understand what the needs of your current workforce is.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if everyone in your workforce is kind of just starting out and doesn't have as many possibly uh responsibilities with caregiving, but maybe their main issue is like paying off student loans, then maybe this is not as helpful.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: But if you see that your workforce is full of people with families or responsibilities to other family members, and you see that there's some kind of some degree of absenteeism, people are just taking time off to take care of their family, then this could be the right policy and maybe the most impact for your workforce.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: So there's no one size fits all, I would say.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think different workforces, different companies or employers require different benefits.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll say that's the first thing.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do feel like your workforce is someone is one that needs paid leave, then yeah, I think for first and foremost, kind of understanding like how much do they need and what are the best ways to kind of uh balance the needs of the employer in terms of making sure people are putting in the hours at work, but also understanding like, okay, how much can we give so that our workforce, our workers can show up to the job without having to worry about, you know, taking care of their family or you know, figuring out how to juggle their schedule.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh that's kind of the first step.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then another step is like, okay, we have a paid lead policy or we're thinking about having one.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: How can we create a culture so that it's something that we encourage and not something that people have but don't take advantage of because maybe there's no uh kind of culture of having it or people just don't know about it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think this kind of goes back to your earlier question, Danny.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like you might have access to a paid lead program, but if you're not taking advantage of it, then think about uh what are the barriers of your workforce from taking an advantage of it, you know, uh having another way of like understanding like what are the ways to unlock it, unlock it in a way so that people are using it for the right purpose.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if they don't, they aren't using it or aren't aware of it, what's causing that block?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just to add real quick, Danny, like from the perspective of like the employer side, something as easy as just being a supportive peer is so, so helpful.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know I say it all the time to my peers in our group, but the amount of times that I hear, like, hey, Kim, don't worry about it, whatever you need, however, I can support, is there anything that I can help you with?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or even from our leader, like constantly telling me, like, Kim, if you've got to take half day, if you've got to take some time, whatever it is, like having that support and assurance and knowing like it's gonna be okay.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is, you know, candidly, like, this is my job, this is our life, you know, when you balance these things and knowing that our life definitely is a higher priority and taking care of ourself always is the most important.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's so reassuring to know that, you know, it quiet that noise a little bit on this side.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So even just having a supportive team, a supportive leader, um, employer, it's it really just makes all the difference.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of people don't always have that.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So no, and it probably adds to your productivity too.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would be that much more motivated having that reassurance to do my job well rather than the additional pressure of that expectation, right?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, our research has shown uh in our other workpiece about kind of how financial stress affects workers in the workplace.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, worrying about your financial issues, uh, worrying about kind of different obligations uh that you have outside of the workplace, uh, they often have a huge mental toll on your workers on the job.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, how they show up, um, whether or not they're focused at work.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, there's a very famous study showing that people with financial uh kind of financial stress issues oftentimes have higher safety violations at work.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, it's not just about the bottom line, but also safety issues.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in assembly line or construction, uh it's very important to be focused.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's very important to make sure that your your concentration is there.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're thinking about you know paying your bills or taking care of a sick relative and so on, then it's hard to be present.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that oftentimes can lead to higher rates of accidents or issues on the workplace uh that could be disasters.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's very much important for everyone to kind of offer the best kind of workplace environment where people are able to show up in their full selves and be present.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is an issue that is uh more common than people may think.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's over 60 million Americans who have caregiving responsibilities.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh it's something that affects most households uh you know on some level or in one way or another.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's important to see that in many ways offering this program is not just for your workforce, but also for the employer, you know, um, having some kind of standardized set program where you can understand like when they might not be showing up because of other obligations also helps in the workplace and the employer so that they're able to standardize their work and standardize the schedules of their workforce.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, secondly, it also helps them in terms of making sure your workers come up uh fully present and engaged with the work that they're doing.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, there is definitely a worker aspect where you're helping out the employee, but also the employer end, so that you're helping out the bottom line and making sure that your your workforce is fully productive and present uh when they're on the job.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, at the financial health network, we have a whole host, a whole host of resources kind of talking about these issues.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: We just launched an essential benefit uh research initiative where we look at the different benefit structures for each firm and what is causing the most impact uh in terms of improving the workforce, but also helping out the employer in terms of making sure their workforce is the most financially stable.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, happy to share more of these resources, happy to talk about it more, uh, and always happy to talk about these issues.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Kim Jen Wu, thank you so much for being here.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: This has been awesome, and I'm so excited to get this episode live.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a bunch, Danny.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: As a reminder, Life Money U is a financial well-being program owned by BCU, a credit union fiercely committed to your financial well-being.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Through LifeMoneyU subscription, you get credit union membership eligibility and access to a boatload of money-saving products and tools, one of which is free financial coaching.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you can meet with a financial coach on your time to talk through boosting credit, crushing debt, or building an emergency savings fund.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: We hope to have you on the next one.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you all for joining us.