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Your PTO Policy Is a Joke If Nobody Takes It · The Healthy Church Staff Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: You brag about four weeks of vacation.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the handbook, it's in the offer.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: You mention it when you're interviewing candidates, when you recruit new people for your church.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: But your worship pastor hasn't taken five consecutive days in two years.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a benefit.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a poster.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna talk about that today here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: My name's Todd Rhodes, one of the co-founders over at chemistry staffing.com.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is not going to be an episode of your thinking about, hey, we need to rewrite our PTO policy or our policy page on vacation.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a policy nobody is allowed to use.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're going to talk about today.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: The days are on the books.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can point to the number four weeks, maybe more, if they've been here long enough.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: The days exist.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're in a spreadsheet somewhere, they're in a dashboard in a sentence that you like to say out loud.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But what does not exist is a week that actually happened.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: The associate pastor took two days after Easter and called it a vacation.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: The kids' director used Friday for a dentist appointment and a funeral, and you counted those as PTO, and they did not rest.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: They spent a benefit that, if truth be told, they were probably a little afraid to take.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: On the books is not the same as actually take it.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the culture around the week off is why nobody takes it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in churches like that, and we're going to talk about this today.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Someone puts a real week on the calendar for vacation.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Five consecutive days, Monday through Friday, not a long weekend with a laptop.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then subtly the jokes start.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe from their supervisor, maybe from other people on the team.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're subtle, but they're kinda digs.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it does reveal your culture.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what it sounds like.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just sign up for five days of PTO.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody finds out, uh, it must be nice.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, well, hold it down while you're out.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even have to say it, the room says it for you.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Staff who took a week look like they checked out.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Staff who stay look loyal.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: You rewarded the person who never left, and you punished the person, subconsciously, even, very slightly, who used what you offered them.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the culture that you're presenting, the culture that you have, if you're doing that, is not a culture of rest.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is a culture of let's see who can go the longest without asking to take a vacation benefit that we've already given them.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You almost feel guilty if you're in that church like this and you want to take a week of vacation.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've got five weeks saved up in the PTO bank, but you feel guilty for taking one week of that or two weeks of that together.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to tell you a little bit about the culture of the church that you're in.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: You do what you need to do is start looking at this a little bit differently.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say this.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: You took the week, you took the week off, you posted the photo from the beach, and then you answered the thread.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, just checking in.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Quick question from the deck.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: The staff saw the timestamp and they learned the rule.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Vacation is a location, not a boundary.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't go dark, they're not going to be able to do that either.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: The senior pastor's out of office.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times it's just people just mock it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a costume.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: The inbox is still open.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know that if you email the person that's on vacation, they're gonna check it.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: They have to.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the culture.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in the end, you model the exact same thing that you say you don't want.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you put four weeks in the handbook because you actually want your staff to rest.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: You think an unused policy still counts as generosity?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: You think offering days is the kind part and taking them.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: We offered it.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's their choice.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's decent.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's also how a benefit becomes more like a poster.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Kindness that only lives on a page is not rest.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a number that you get to brag about while nobody ever recovers.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, the worship pastor finally took four days, they come back more tired.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because the week before was a scramble to get ahead.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever done that?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I've said this before in different positions I've been in.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's more work to take a vacation than what it is to actually stay here because I gotta pre-work all the stuff to cover while I'm gone.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I get back, I gotta deal with all the crap that happened in the week or two weeks that I was gone.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you come back more tired and refreshed, and you feel like you get back your first day back, you think, I really need a vacation.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because the work before was a scramble to get ahead, because the work after was two weeks of catching up, and because just checking email meant that you never really left.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: You were still checking in because you're still on the calendar for Sunday, right even when you get back, and you called it a vacation.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your bald body called it a change of scenery with the same job right in your pocket, just like always.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: A week that still has a Sunday in the middle of in the middle of it is still just a week, right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: A week you spend proving that you were never really gone is not really rest.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you return exhausted, you really didn't give you take time off.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: You just went to a different place to carry all the stuff that you're carrying.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, I want you to stop treating the handbook like it's a gift.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Pick one person.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what I'd love for you to do.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Pick one person.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is you.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's one of your staff people.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Put five consecutive days on the PTO board.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not a long weekend, not I'll be around if you need me, not a staycation.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: A week.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Five consecutive days, or however you want to do it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I want you to protect it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Coverage named before you leave.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: No checking, just checking email, no texts.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: You treat the week like it's an actual vacation, not a favor.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if one protected week breaks the church or puts your position in jeopardy, the church was already running on a person, not a plan.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: The policy is not the generosity, the protected week of hey, you've been working hard, get away, don't think about this place, don't check your email.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna text you unless the church is on fire, and then we probably won't text you.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just let you know it burn when you get home.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: But that's generosity when you actually give the person the time off, number one, and then expect them actually not to check it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Four weeks on the books, this is your bottom line.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Four weeks on the books, not a benefit if nobody takes it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Unused vacation is not generosity, it's just a poster.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this week, like I said, I want you to do something really uncomfortable.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Pick one person, maybe a Jew, put a real week on the calendar, five consecutive days, protected, no checking email, no Sunday in the middle where you pretend it doesn't count.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Put that on the calendar this week.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this is hard, but I also want you to know that you actually want your people to rest.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know you do.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you're listening to this podcast because you're trying to make your church, you're trying to make your staff more healthy and better for the long term so that you can achieve the mission of your church.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to hear from you if there's anything, maybe you disagree with me.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Todd, you're smoking coconut on something like here we talked about today.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to me, podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear from you.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: If there's any way that I or anybody on our chemistry staffing staff can help you with any kind of healthy staff issue, whether it's hiring or maybe unfortunately firing someone, we'd love to have a conversation with you and help you.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we specialize in, so we'd love to help you there.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Podcast at chemistry staffing.com.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have about 10 minutes right now, you didn't have anything.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Look at your calorie.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have anything on your calendar.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would love it if you could help me out.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Head over to churchstaffassessment.com.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Take the healthy church assessment.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely free of charge, 2026 edition.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: This helps my team of chemistry staffing kind of come up with how are you doing?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: How is everyone in the country doing that serves on a church staff?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're already learning some really incredible things from those that have taken it this year, and we'll have our report out the first of next year, 2027.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to have you take it now at churchstaffassessment.com.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's it for today.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you have a great day.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back every weekday, Monday through Friday, here on the Healthy Church Death Podcast.